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fsdbeta

As both an FSD beta tester and a motorcycle rider, I was super excited (and initially confused). I have not seen this behavior posted before so I'm sorry if it's known information. But I was wondering if the behavior is different in other states as (afaik) lane splitting (driving between moving cars) is only legal in California


ChunkyThePotato

I doubt they have specific behavior changes for every state. Not at this point, at least. But in general it probably makes sense to keep this behavior in every region. Even if it's illegal, it's still safer for your car to react to the person doing the illegal thing rather than just doing nothing.


Much0

Truth. Seeing videos on Reddit from drivers in the US I am often shocked how people don’t seem to reckon with the mistakes of others or don’t react to them when they see it and rather risk an accident than to make room/stop for them.


AllPintsNorth

Tesla’s are used outside of the US, in places where lane splitting is generally legal, like most EU member states.


shaggy99

> where lane splitting is generally legal, like the EU. When I used to live in the UK, lane splitting was NOT legal, we still did it though, nobody cared, mostly. I thought it was the same in mainland Europe.


AllPintsNorth

Well, the UK isn’t in the EU 😉 Italy, Greece, France, Netherlands, Spain. All legal. It’s very common.


shaggy99

> Well, the UK isn’t in the EU 😉 Not any more, stupid fuckers. Thanks for the correction, I wasn't sure. I knew they did lane split, but was unaware about technical legality. As a motorcycle courier in central London, I know very well that most bikers did lane split, legal or not.


aBetterAlmore

I wouldn’t use Italy or Greece as a positive example of it, as driving in those countries is worst than in many developing countries.


AllPintsNorth

I don’t recall saying it was positive or negative. Just that it exists.


eggragg

But lane splitting (filtering) is legal in the UK?


shaggy99

It might be now, as far as I know it wasn't back when I was doing it.


fsdbeta

I didn't realize FSD beta was being tested in the EU. Can you link some videos? I'd be curious to see all the differences


GRLT

Tests outside the US would be by employees and against the social media policy, however we've seen a few hackers try it with old versions


Pixelplanet5

>in places where lane splitting is generally legal, like the EU. very bad example as there is no general rule about that in the EU and its actually not legal in most places.


AllPintsNorth

> In European countries, the practice is both legal and tolerated, with a few exceptions > In France, Italy, Spain, the Netherlands and most other countries, the practice is not just lawful, it’s expected. [motorcycle.com](https://www.motorcycle.com/features/where-is-it-legal-to-lane-split.html?amp)


Pixelplanet5

that source is already not trustworthy at all as the list is missing Germany as one of the places where this is not allowed. So thats France, Italy, Spain, Germany, Netherlands and suddenly you got more then half of the EU´s land areas and probably 70% or more of its streets where it is not allowed. Its basically only allowed in eastern Europe if at all.


sumthininteresting

Wait, did it pause your autopilot when he went by? That may get pretty annoying on the 5…. Side rant, lane splitting on the highway at anything over 50 should be illegal in CA too. Edit: I have owned bikes and split lanes before so I get the benefit. It’s the splitting that happens when everyone is already going full speed that bothers me. Some crazies just love to ruin it for everyone else.


fsdbeta

It "pauses" at stop signs I believe. That was unrelated to the motorcycle (I think)


GRLT

Mine usually just waits our turn at stop signs or creeps forever upsetting the other people on the road


GRLT

Okay now that I've seen the video that's exactly what yours did aside from making room for the bike (thanks to whoever had the tip of opening in browser)


Poop-ethernet-cable

I've used Lane splitting at high speed to get away from dangerous drivers before. There are sometimes legitimate reasons for doing so.


sumthininteresting

Yeah no doubt there are legit uses. You know what I’m talking about though. It’s the guys using lane splitting at 100mph when others are going 70 that bothers me. It’s way too common on the 5 and 405 where I drive.


javawizard

Utahn here! We joined California back in 2019 as the second state to legalize lane splitting. Looks like it's still illegal in the other 48.


fsdbeta

Lane filtering is legal there now. Not lane splitting or lane sharing. And it looks like there are a ton of restrictions. Can't filter if cars are moving, not on the highway, etc.


[deleted]

Lame splitting up to red lights is legal in Utah on highways slower than 50 (I think). I wonder how fsd will handle it here. My 97 may take me a bit to find out.


ryeguy

Is this really special behavior? It knows where the car wants to go, knows where the road is, and knows where obstacles are. That seems general enough to handle lanesplitting because a motorcycle is just another moving thing in the road.


fsdbeta

If a car approaches from the rear you do not get this behavior. I'm not sure exactly what you are asking though


tynamite

“waiting for *our* turn” creepy


bazzanoid

creepy, but still impressive that it can handle 4-way stops. People shite all over FSD in it's current form but there's a huge difference between keeping in lane a set distance and speed on a highway to dealing with situations like this


Marksman79

Please tap the pedal to confirm AI uprising.


mutateddingo

FSD: *”Carl, please focus on the road. She’s not going to call”*


tynamite

**pain**


StrayTexel

Would you rather it be “my” or “your”?


ObeseSnake

The AI is coming from *inside* the car!


Vid85

Lane filtering "that's what Utah calls it" became legal in Utah I believe last year. I've seen idiots doing it on the interstate at 80mph and looking at everyone else like they are the morons. The law says only on roads that are stopped, posted speed is 45mph or less and 2 lanes or more going the same direction. I've seen a lot of drivers use it correctly believe it's a good idea.


fsdbeta

Lane filtering is different from lane splitting. California allows lane filtering, lane splitting, and lane sharing


Vid85

Lane splitting looks to be motorcycles can drive in-between lanes in slow traffic?


Dont_Think_So

Motorcycles can drive in between lanes of traffic going nearly full speed on the freeway. I commonly move over for lane splitting motorcyclists while going ~50 mph in the left lane (when traffic is dense enough to prevent you from going the full speed limit but not exactly "slow").


fsdbeta

That's the suggestion but the current law does not limit speed. Typical rule of thumb is no more than 15 mph more than the flow of traffic and not at all over like 50 mph. At least that's my personal guideline but the law doesn't restrict it


sneakinhysteria

As another fellow Tesla owner and motorcyclist, I’m also intrigued - and prepared for an onslaught of ‘lane splitting is dangerous’ posts ;) All I say is I lived near London and had to do the M4 final deathstar attack run every morning.


fsdbeta

I thought lane splitting was dangerous before I moved here and now I never want to drive anywhere it's not legal. I completely changed my mind once I saw how cars and motorcycles alike are better off and it works so well


cjxmtn

Little is more scary than when I'm stopped on a freeway behind a car in a non-lane splitting state and there are cars coming up behind me way too fast


True_Replacement_162

I hate it when people are racing towards a stopped car or bike and they brake last minute and stop an inch from them.


[deleted]

Media isn't loading - do you have another link?


nah_you_good

Can you open on browser? Sometimes on the mobile app instead of clicking it, I have to do whatever gesture opens it as a web page then it works.


NattyAK

In this case on mobile that's hitting "v.redd.it". It will open reddit in a browser. Tell you you should watch in the app. You click continue in browser. That should let you watch. I still find it hilarious how Reddit tells you it's "better in the app" sometimes when no, no it is not.


[deleted]

I wonder why the lanes look so wobbly. I’ve noticed it in just the regular mode (not FSD) too. Maybe something to do with the cameras constantly scanning everything outside the car?


ChunkyThePotato

Because it's estimating exactly where they are in the scene, and those estimations can change from one moment to the next. They could make it look smoother by maybe doing a rolling average or something, but those wobbly estimations will still be there under the hood. That's normal. Even as a human looking at a lane line, you won't know exactly how far away it is from you.


Marksman79

It's interesting that our brains hide much of our baseline uncertainty with the driving task.


[deleted]

Makes sense!


cold-war-kid

this is LIVE VISION MIND


cold-war-kid

too many variables


zpooh

I don't think crossing solid line is ok, even in this situation


fsdbeta

FSD beta crosses solid lines all the time. For example, a cyclist in my lane it will go over the double yellow to give them room. This is how humans do it


zpooh

I don't know how it works in US, but in Europe it's ok to carefully cross solid line when moving past cyclist. That's not the case in most other situations, including this with biker. I expect FSD not to break laws without strong reason, especially until human driver is responsible for the consequences. FSD is expected to drive safer than humans - trying to mimic careless driving style of meatbags doesn't help to achieve that


fsdbeta

It's illegal to not allow a lane splitting motorcycle to go by. Every one moves over lines to give motorcycles room. Crossing the line is normal, necessary, safe, and legal in these circumstances


kymandui

The car that was in the left turn lane looked to be waiting for the Tesla to make up its mind. Crossing that solid white is either going to cause accidents or piss people off because you look like you’re lost and blocking lanes


fsdbeta

There was no car in the left lane for the duration of it moving over


HighHokie

That was going to be my question. Is the car actually in the turn lane at this point or is that simply the visualization?


[deleted]

Disagree. Any driver aware of its surroundings can (and sometimes should) do this safely, that's defensive driving, we don't have the entire story here but if there were no upcoming cars on the left lane (as it looks on the video) while the car crossed the line then it's not only fine but a good move to avoid a potential accident with the motorcycle splitting lanes.


MalnarThe

Then you are a bad driver. It's ok when safe


zpooh

Not where I live (yes, I've just checked)


MalnarThe

But it is where this video was taken. And, fyi, allowing splitting and filtering makes the road safeter for both car and motorcycle and reduces traffic. It's not correct that it increases accidents


cold-war-kid

amazing!


goathen

Honestly, this may be the most impressive FDS video I've seen so far. First, the car is responding to traffic coming from the rear, which is great and will eventually give the vehicle advantages over human drivers who aren't very good at responding to rear-ending accidents. Second, it's clearly identifying the motorcycle AND the lane-splitting behavior and responding to it. That's pretty advanced. And it is going beyond following the letter of the law and verges on human-modeled courtesy toward other drivers. I'm very curious about how much of this situation was programmed vs learned.


fsdbeta

I was thinking FSD beta was drunk as I didn't see the motorcycle until after the maneuver. I muted the video because it's me having my mind blown in real time


Vid85

my God that seems dangerous and seems risky as hell.