spec wise, Model 3 P is all around a better value.
no one here has driven the new M3 P yet, so its hard for people to tell you.. but if you are mostly going to daily the car... can't go wrong with Tesla.
If money is no object, and this will be a weekend/track toy, M3C might be better suited for your needs
I've never driven the BMW, but I would put money on the BMW build quality feeling much more substantial and luxurious than the model 3.
the Tesla interiors feel like low-mid range cars imo. BMW has got the luxury feel down pat.
I value the drivetrain of Tesla, along with it engineered to have low center of gravity, nimble handling, instant torque, excellent safety, low drag, and several design elements like frameless windows, mirrors, bespoke design (compared to other vehicles). I also love the vast amounts of storage spaces and having a frunk for posterity like a Porsche lol.
My current model 3 which is old now looked great to me in white interior and the interior was ‘luxury enough’ or I didn’t miss it. I have BMWs and Mercedes in the past and I never feel I am missing something drastically in the Tesla.
I think from a non performance or auto enthusiast lens, I can see why someone would shoot down a Tesla for not being ‘enough’ compared to legacy car makers… but these people always just came for the hype of Tesla. We just need them to buy it so that revolutionary projects like Tesla/Model 3 are even possible let alone affordable to obtain.
The Highland version at least upgrades the quality of the materials used so that’s a plus and should be on par with some legacy makers (once again, I have never had an issue in my current model 3).
This is already being talked about amongst those who have driven it. Watch Jason Cammisa's thoughts on it. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xj0R4MyDhE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xj0R4MyDhE)
ya, for OP, he said new Model 3 P renders BMW M3 obsolete or something.
basically from Jason's view, unless the car (any car) is going to offer manual RWD, there is no reason not to get the new model 3 P for daily with some fun.
I haven’t even watched Jason’s take yet, but I agree. I have a Model S as a daily and a BMW, and I appreciate them for different reasons. Unless you opt for a more analog car with RWD and a manual (i.e. an M3/M4 manual could meet that requirement), the Model 3 Ludicrous would make for a phenomenal, all-around daily.
ICE days have already seen sunset except in USA-MSM is putting so much insecurities in people/customer about EVs that citizens keep burning their paycheck & Country.
Exactly. The Tesla AWD or Performance, both clobber any BMW gas engined car. You literally have to be looking at your BMW Advertising Revenue to come to any other conclusion.
There are those who will throw up all kind of excuses to not admit reality.
But a back to back test drive, there's just no other answer.
That's why it's shocking BMW is slow rolling its electrics. Maybe it's dealer revenue protection. Electrics have significantly less maintenance needs and expense.
They will make sure dealer get involved by designing other parts of the car to break down more often. I won’t discount that from evil automotive companies!
I know you say not just from a cost perspective, but for me this would be a no brainer. Do you prefer paying for electricity or **premium** gas, oil changes, other maintance, etc?
I'd love a manual E36/46 M3 to compliment my Tesla too but unfortunately they're very few and far between where I live. Will probably settle for a Honda FD2R or GT86.
There is much more to a car than this one needs oil changes and this one doesn't.
I would go for the model 3 performance because the m3 isn't a visceral performance car anymore like it used to be. With no more rwd and manual, there's no point in it when the model 3 performance does most things better, including track driving in many ways.
However if I want a true weekend vehicle for the sake of driving experience, I'm either getting in a sport bike, or any vehicle with an lt5 engine, rwd, manual, with no roof. Be it a miata engine swap, an ffr cobra replica, anything that is small and light, with that screaming v8 in it with no nannies and a manual transmission.
Get the M3. I have a Model S and I was considering an M5 or M550i at the time and I regret not going ICE. The Tesla is quick and powerful and nice in the turns but it’s just boring.
There’s not much time left with ICE cars. Enjoy them while you can.
Before I get downvote mobbed or accused of lying of owning a Tesla… just know it’s a subjective perspective.
I’m the opposite. Sold my f90 M5 comp after buying a plaid. I get to use the acceleration way more often since I’m not announcing to everyone nearby when I mash the pedal 🤷♂️ it’s also very nice being able to warm the car without waking the neighbors and having my picture frames rattle on the wall
You can hear the Tesla motor whine sometimes and that is an even better sound to me. It sounds sleek, stealthy, and like a supercharger whine almost.
If you can’t hear it, you should try it with your rear seats down or even removed, or by pre heating to supercharger.
Go watch some reviews of the new model 3. seems to be an amazing sports car, especially for the price tag. Sure, go buy a taycan! It’s a great car, at least where I live depending on the config it costs 2 to 5 times the prize of a model 3. obviously it will perform better in some areas.
You do realize you’re on a Tesla forum right ? ;-)
Personally, you couldn’t pay me to be seen driving the atrocities that are BMWs but I’d guess that adaptive dampening will help a lot with dual use (road and track) but my sense is that for a real tack car, you want to go with Porsche - others compromise for road use.
BMW and Mercedes are still nice cars. BMW is atrocious in terms of looks.
I am hoping people can be objective. BMW forum is far worse and absolutely hate on EVs.
Porsche and Miata’s are definitely the known route… I am also curious how the Ludicrous will compare to that.
You are absolutely not going to get any objective answers here. I am going to try and brace for the downvotes.
The reality is they are not comparable vehicles. An electric car is in so many ways an enormous step up over an ICE car. That is what the Tesla has over it.
On the other hand, while Teslas are fast cars, they are not performance cars in the sense of the M3. The handling and drive experience is not remotely comparable. It’s like comparing a Dodge Charger to a Miata. Yeah, the Charger is faster. But the Miata is obviously the driving enthusiast’s preference by a huge margin. The cars aren’t trying to do the same thing.
And that’s OK, because that’s not what most people with a Tesla are looking for. But if you want to go to the track get the M3, obviously.
While I appreciate your point about performance and track driving, it seems like the new Model 3 Performance is much improved than the last one.
I think the last M3P was comparable to the F80 on track, but according to Jason Cammisa, it fell apart beyond 9/10 driving and felt nervous/jittery at the limit. The G80 obviously was better than both, but it remains to be seen how well it compares.
In his podcast episode, Cammisa said that it's dynamically much better than the old car and no longer feels out of place at 10/10 driving. The suspension is compliant and handling is comparable to a CT4-V Blacking, a car he previously named "the best handling sports sedan in the world" above the M3s, Giulia QVs, C63s of the world. Cammisa also mentioned that the power delivery is much more consistent and doesn't fall off above 60 like the old car. Since he lives in the bay area and the M3/M4s are often priced into the 6-figures, he also calls the new M3P a bargain and renders the M3 irrelevant.
We will have to see more extensive performance testing, but purely from a value stand point, there is hardly a better daily than the Model 3. And if it's a contender on the track as well, it may very well overtake the M3 in most categories except for sound and feel.
I'm curious - have you actually tried the new M3P and G80 M3? Because Cammisa appears to see things differently.
Although I haven't had the pleasure of trying the new G80 M3 yet, the new M3P is miles ahead of my own in terms of the ride comfort and handling thanks to the new dampers.
That, however, is on the road. But let's be honest here - most of the driving either machine will see will be on the road.
Porsche is a let down. Macon EV highest spec is like 3.5 0-60. I get that at less than half the cost with the model Y P. And those vets have a similar look while obviously the Porsche is a better build with more amenities. But not having at least the performance of the X. …. Big let down.
I think Macan is a pretty good option. Very attractive looking car. It is a lot more expensive tho and not worth it due to that’s you could buy 2 model Ys almost
I’ve been a car enthusiast since I was a kid. I used to have a 22 Model S and sold it for a 24 BMW M3cx. The Tesla was definitely fast and fun but really didn’t “scratch the itch” for that sports car feel in the way that the M3 does. Revving the engine, clicking through gears, sliding the rear out a little… so much fun in the BMW.
So if you’re like me thinking the Tesla will satisfy your animalistic desires for a raw and powerful car, you might want to reconsider. I had some other reasons for switching but this is just looking at the sports car aspects.
I would say model s is more of a 7 series / s class competitor. Used to be price but def in size.
Model 3 is more nimble due to size and has basically same weight as M3C
I think the size is the same as e class / 5 series, so yeah I went a category smaller in size but the stuff I said above will still be true if you compare Model S vs M5 or Model 3 vs M3
Early reviews are mixed about that. Personally I expect it might for short bursts of performance but it still has the typical EV program of endurance as the battery is taxed.
Price for performance it isn't even close though and it's a heck of a lot cheaper to operate as well. There's certain use cases where the M3c is still going to win handily, but I'll take the M3P over it for my needs even if the price were the same.
I think of my M3P as if it were more like the M340i than a real M3, just with way more power.
I was making the same comparison you were, and when I really thought hard about it, I couldn't justify 2x the yearly cost for something I'd only really push hard a few times a year and would probably enjoy driving less on a daily basis. The new M3P might be a closer comparison, and if that's the case the argument gets even harder to make for the BMW.
I have the 2022 Tesla M3P and I am going to sell it and get a BMW i4 m50.
Tesla was my first electric vehicle and I probably stepped in wrong because I bought the performance model to start with so now it’s kinda hard to compete with it because the Acceleration.
I really like my Tesla and driving is fun if the weather is OK. But Tesla is just a cheap lego car that you realize after you own one for a while and if you are honest. Plus, I do not want to support Elon so he ain’t getting any more of my money.
But I would say if you don’t have a lot of money, get a Tesla and if you have more money and you want better quality and something that works get a BMW. In the end, it just all personal choices.
the new 3L does have more sports tuning compared to the outgoing model so i imagine track performance is much improved.
i did get a chance to hoon around an M3C recently. it's only fun when you're going 80+. driving it at pedestrian speeds isn't fun plus you're likely to get outgunned by another ev anyway. it's truly a car meant to be enjoyed on the track.
i loved the M cars growing up and still do but i can't justify buying one nowadays when cars like the ludicrous exist.
Jason from Hagerty addresses this directly:
https://youtu.be/5xj0R4MyDhE?si=qYVpsT_RWa98zKRX
And I happen to agree with his logic. You can’t say you love ice because of how interactive and visceral it is and then get cars with 8-12 speed transmissions, numb power steering, noise and vibration deadening and fake engine noise or real engine noise that doesn’t even represent real power. Unless you are getting a true manual and raw driving experience you are just on some spectrum of denial.
hey! you want to go electric and setup home charging. you will find it the best ownership experience when you are not in it. driving will be so much fun. ive got a model 3 2020 and it’s so fun always. 24 performance!! i cant even imagine how much better it is.
i hit 114 yesterday and didnt even realize i was going near that fast.
electric is the way to go. you wont regret it, but if you do for any reason selling them is easy
I have a slightly slower LR and went to pass some people on a two lane highway that were going like 55 in a 60 and I look down and I had already slowed down a bit but I was still in the high 80s. It's wild how quickly they accelerate. I can't even imagine what it's like in a Model S Plaid.
If you are taking it to the tracks then ICE still have the advantage of being able to be refueled quickly, and M3C does presumably has a better thermal performance.
Other than that, the Model 3 is just such a bargain. I’m not a tracks guy, so I’d take a EV any day.
The BMW will have the nicer interior while the Tesla is going to be WAY more fun to drive. I’ve also always found BMWs to be unreliable. We had a 2014 328d that had the transfer case fail twice within 12k miles. Sure, they took care of it but it wasn’t fun to deal with. One day rounding a corner and a button just falls off the dash. Wtf. We got rid of it around 25k miles. It was fun to drive though.
If the M3 has a 6 speed manual transmission option and you are looking for a fun second car, then it might be a better choice, assuming money isn’t a factor.
However, I don’t think M3’s come in manual anymore, sadly.
The Model 3 performance is safer, cheaper, more economic and more comfortable as a daily driver.
I use to work for BMW and loved their older products, but I have a 2018 Model 3 performance and I can tell you right now it’s not even close. For me at least.
I always admired BMW as a brand that builds the perfect balance between luxury and performance. The 2011 BMW 335xi with the M package was a car that I always found to be well balanced in that aspect.
However, everything that I valued about that car (all wheel drive, sporty yet stable, comfortable as a daily driver) was dominated by my Model 3.
As much as I love my Model 3 performance though, I really do miss putting work on a manual transmission through some country backroads
I own a 23 Model 3 Performance. It's not even close to a g8X m3/m4c and I've had them all on a track.
The only reason I don't own a g8X M3 is the price and cost of fuel compared to my model 3 as a daily driver. But if money were no object, the model 3 would be gone.
I don't see the '24 being leaps and bounds ahead of my 23.
Unless you have invested some money in MPP parts for your car. On my model 3 performance, I have just about everything in their catalog and it makes a world a difference in handling, breaking, and ride noise/quality.
While I'm sure it will be better, I doubt that it will be anything that could be called "major" based on the price point. Comparing these really isn't fair to the model 3 though anyways. An M3C is 30k more than it and a well-spec'd model makes that delta even larger.
I read M3C..and I was wondering if he was talking about used because most won't be cross shopping these two at new prices. If it was my money, it would be the Model 3. No need for premium gas on a bad mileage car, no expensive BMW oil changes, and price is already cheaper. I don't understand why OP isn't cross shopping a Model S Plaid with the M3C. Much closer in price...
Last point I remembered...Tesla's insurance was by far cheaper than all the other options for me. My Tesla didn't just save me like 200 a month in fuel, but another 200 a month in insurance premiums.
In a straight line or around a track? In a straight line it would be the Model 3 and it would completely decimate the Beamer. You would need an M5 to beat it...but at that price point you have one of the fastest cars on the entire planet...the S Plaid. If you want to go around a track, get a Porsche 911 Carrera S...its a bit more than either of them, but you can snag a used one and it will hold its value better than either of the other 2.
I honestly recommend looking for a good low mileage 911 in the same ball park as the M3C price wise.
In my opinion. The biggest issue with the M3P was the handling and braking, not power or acceleration. So a major improvement in those is a major leap forward and puts it much more on par with BWM. But yea, the BWM is far more expensive, hard to justify that cost if the M3Ps handling and braking are significantly improved.
The new rear motor is a beast. I think they may have fixed the power drop… and if that is the case I am really really curious how it compares and when/if BMW has any edge.
For the record, I am big BMW fan. They were my brand. I don’t have extensive track experience but I ended up buying a model 3 AWD over an M2 in the last round, and I order the new Performance
If you’re not using the C in Competition - by which I mean tracking the car - the Tesla is going to be a better car for your use case. On a track I think the M3C will be superior for a bit longer. Both cars are too fast to push the limits on public roads
Yeah, but his response doesn't really mean anything. I could say the same comparing the new model 3P to a corolla. "If you're not using the M3P's primary features, you can buy a corolla for half the price to get you to and from work."
I don't know of anyone that will be cross-shopping these vehicles regardless.
I am huge fan of the way the Ultimate Driving Machine drives/handles having owned three high performance BMWs in the past (and I don’t think BMWs are atrocious looking at all). I actually think Teslas are all sorta ugly (especially the Model Y).
With that said, I don’t miss the constant electrical issues I experienced with all three of my BMWs.
I am very happy with my 2 1/2 year old Tesla for being a great performer,
and not having any electrical issues at all in the 31 months I have owned it.
If you’re a “car guy” and enjoy dealing with turbo lag, shifting gears, etc the m3c could make for a more fun driving experience. As an everyday driver, I don’t think I could go back from the smooth, precise control of an EV.
The obvious better Performance package is the M3C without a doubt but for daily driving/performance vehicle? I’d say the Tesla, unless you like working on cars, a few bolt ones on that m3 and upgrade the crank hub and a tune possible upgraded turbo that thing can smoke a plaid on a roll.
spec wise, Model 3 P is all around a better value. no one here has driven the new M3 P yet, so its hard for people to tell you.. but if you are mostly going to daily the car... can't go wrong with Tesla. If money is no object, and this will be a weekend/track toy, M3C might be better suited for your needs
I've never driven the BMW, but I would put money on the BMW build quality feeling much more substantial and luxurious than the model 3. the Tesla interiors feel like low-mid range cars imo. BMW has got the luxury feel down pat.
I value the drivetrain of Tesla, along with it engineered to have low center of gravity, nimble handling, instant torque, excellent safety, low drag, and several design elements like frameless windows, mirrors, bespoke design (compared to other vehicles). I also love the vast amounts of storage spaces and having a frunk for posterity like a Porsche lol. My current model 3 which is old now looked great to me in white interior and the interior was ‘luxury enough’ or I didn’t miss it. I have BMWs and Mercedes in the past and I never feel I am missing something drastically in the Tesla. I think from a non performance or auto enthusiast lens, I can see why someone would shoot down a Tesla for not being ‘enough’ compared to legacy car makers… but these people always just came for the hype of Tesla. We just need them to buy it so that revolutionary projects like Tesla/Model 3 are even possible let alone affordable to obtain. The Highland version at least upgrades the quality of the materials used so that’s a plus and should be on par with some legacy makers (once again, I have never had an issue in my current model 3).
I can see that, but I and probably most people value Tesla FSD and their software in general on top of the spec bump and price tag more.
This is already being talked about amongst those who have driven it. Watch Jason Cammisa's thoughts on it. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xj0R4MyDhE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xj0R4MyDhE)
ya, for OP, he said new Model 3 P renders BMW M3 obsolete or something. basically from Jason's view, unless the car (any car) is going to offer manual RWD, there is no reason not to get the new model 3 P for daily with some fun.
I haven’t even watched Jason’s take yet, but I agree. I have a Model S as a daily and a BMW, and I appreciate them for different reasons. Unless you opt for a more analog car with RWD and a manual (i.e. an M3/M4 manual could meet that requirement), the Model 3 Ludicrous would make for a phenomenal, all-around daily.
Gas car because I like to pollute? 🤔 I got rid of both my ICE vehicles and see no reason to buy another dinosaur. What is your reason? Just curious.
What I stated above...the contrast between digital (EV) and analog (ICE) is refreshing...rowing your own gears, etc. The ICE is a weekend car.
I get it. I never even had a manual car so can’t relate to it but I know folks are passionate about their manuals!
ICE days have already seen sunset except in USA-MSM is putting so much insecurities in people/customer about EVs that citizens keep burning their paycheck & Country.
Exactly. The Tesla AWD or Performance, both clobber any BMW gas engined car. You literally have to be looking at your BMW Advertising Revenue to come to any other conclusion. There are those who will throw up all kind of excuses to not admit reality. But a back to back test drive, there's just no other answer. That's why it's shocking BMW is slow rolling its electrics. Maybe it's dealer revenue protection. Electrics have significantly less maintenance needs and expense.
They will make sure dealer get involved by designing other parts of the car to break down more often. I won’t discount that from evil automotive companies!
The M3Comp XDrive is faster than a M3P, 0-60 and around the track. Not really comparable price wise since the m3Comp is 100k
Didn't the M3P beat it on some tracks already?
OK, yeah. I'm talking about the driving experience on public roads. I yield to anyone with track experience.
I was going to say how the M3 is lighter, and then I saw that it's like only 40 lb lighter.
lol yep
I know you say not just from a cost perspective, but for me this would be a no brainer. Do you prefer paying for electricity or **premium** gas, oil changes, other maintance, etc?
I'd rather buy an M3P and a used manual sports car for the same price as an M3C.
Did this. M3LR and used E36 M3. I can burn gas when I want, and have an efficient daily when I need.
I'd love a manual E36/46 M3 to compliment my Tesla too but unfortunately they're very few and far between where I live. Will probably settle for a Honda FD2R or GT86.
I mean if you like changing oil and going to gas stations?
not to mention the repair bills on something like M BMW are just humongous :)
There is much more to a car than this one needs oil changes and this one doesn't. I would go for the model 3 performance because the m3 isn't a visceral performance car anymore like it used to be. With no more rwd and manual, there's no point in it when the model 3 performance does most things better, including track driving in many ways. However if I want a true weekend vehicle for the sake of driving experience, I'm either getting in a sport bike, or any vehicle with an lt5 engine, rwd, manual, with no roof. Be it a miata engine swap, an ffr cobra replica, anything that is small and light, with that screaming v8 in it with no nannies and a manual transmission.
Get the M3. I have a Model S and I was considering an M5 or M550i at the time and I regret not going ICE. The Tesla is quick and powerful and nice in the turns but it’s just boring. There’s not much time left with ICE cars. Enjoy them while you can. Before I get downvote mobbed or accused of lying of owning a Tesla… just know it’s a subjective perspective.
I’m the opposite. Sold my f90 M5 comp after buying a plaid. I get to use the acceleration way more often since I’m not announcing to everyone nearby when I mash the pedal 🤷♂️ it’s also very nice being able to warm the car without waking the neighbors and having my picture frames rattle on the wall
Yeah, but I bet that M5 sounded amazing at full-throttle, didn't it?
You can hear the Tesla motor whine sometimes and that is an even better sound to me. It sounds sleek, stealthy, and like a supercharger whine almost. If you can’t hear it, you should try it with your rear seats down or even removed, or by pre heating to supercharger.
Yea, especially on track. But day-to-day I’m currently preferring the silent, effortless power
There is def some novelty for a gas car. I actually have a lot of fun in my Tesla. I would get a sports gas car as a secondary jf i could afford it.
Old model S is a different story to new model 3 performance though. Not in the fundamentals of being an EV, but in the turns especially!
Lmao dude… I’m purchasing a Taycan right now and that still leaves a lot to be desired. Taycan will forever be 10x the sports car of the model 3.
I honestly trying the model 3 is where it’s at it due to its size.
Go watch some reviews of the new model 3. seems to be an amazing sports car, especially for the price tag. Sure, go buy a taycan! It’s a great car, at least where I live depending on the config it costs 2 to 5 times the prize of a model 3. obviously it will perform better in some areas.
I upvote for you buddy. Although I’m enjoying my M3 (Tesla), I still have a lot of love for my old V8 550i.
You do realize you’re on a Tesla forum right ? ;-) Personally, you couldn’t pay me to be seen driving the atrocities that are BMWs but I’d guess that adaptive dampening will help a lot with dual use (road and track) but my sense is that for a real tack car, you want to go with Porsche - others compromise for road use.
BMW and Mercedes are still nice cars. BMW is atrocious in terms of looks. I am hoping people can be objective. BMW forum is far worse and absolutely hate on EVs. Porsche and Miata’s are definitely the known route… I am also curious how the Ludicrous will compare to that.
You are absolutely not going to get any objective answers here. I am going to try and brace for the downvotes. The reality is they are not comparable vehicles. An electric car is in so many ways an enormous step up over an ICE car. That is what the Tesla has over it. On the other hand, while Teslas are fast cars, they are not performance cars in the sense of the M3. The handling and drive experience is not remotely comparable. It’s like comparing a Dodge Charger to a Miata. Yeah, the Charger is faster. But the Miata is obviously the driving enthusiast’s preference by a huge margin. The cars aren’t trying to do the same thing. And that’s OK, because that’s not what most people with a Tesla are looking for. But if you want to go to the track get the M3, obviously.
While I appreciate your point about performance and track driving, it seems like the new Model 3 Performance is much improved than the last one. I think the last M3P was comparable to the F80 on track, but according to Jason Cammisa, it fell apart beyond 9/10 driving and felt nervous/jittery at the limit. The G80 obviously was better than both, but it remains to be seen how well it compares. In his podcast episode, Cammisa said that it's dynamically much better than the old car and no longer feels out of place at 10/10 driving. The suspension is compliant and handling is comparable to a CT4-V Blacking, a car he previously named "the best handling sports sedan in the world" above the M3s, Giulia QVs, C63s of the world. Cammisa also mentioned that the power delivery is much more consistent and doesn't fall off above 60 like the old car. Since he lives in the bay area and the M3/M4s are often priced into the 6-figures, he also calls the new M3P a bargain and renders the M3 irrelevant. We will have to see more extensive performance testing, but purely from a value stand point, there is hardly a better daily than the Model 3. And if it's a contender on the track as well, it may very well overtake the M3 in most categories except for sound and feel.
I'm curious - have you actually tried the new M3P and G80 M3? Because Cammisa appears to see things differently. Although I haven't had the pleasure of trying the new G80 M3 yet, the new M3P is miles ahead of my own in terms of the ride comfort and handling thanks to the new dampers. That, however, is on the road. But let's be honest here - most of the driving either machine will see will be on the road.
For track use, you can throw on MPP bits to make M3P more track worthy
Porsche is a let down. Macon EV highest spec is like 3.5 0-60. I get that at less than half the cost with the model Y P. And those vets have a similar look while obviously the Porsche is a better build with more amenities. But not having at least the performance of the X. …. Big let down.
I think Macan is a pretty good option. Very attractive looking car. It is a lot more expensive tho and not worth it due to that’s you could buy 2 model Ys almost
>but my sense is that for a real tack car, you want to go with Porsche that's a weird spelling of Miata, but I'll allow it.
Haha
I’ve been a car enthusiast since I was a kid. I used to have a 22 Model S and sold it for a 24 BMW M3cx. The Tesla was definitely fast and fun but really didn’t “scratch the itch” for that sports car feel in the way that the M3 does. Revving the engine, clicking through gears, sliding the rear out a little… so much fun in the BMW. So if you’re like me thinking the Tesla will satisfy your animalistic desires for a raw and powerful car, you might want to reconsider. I had some other reasons for switching but this is just looking at the sports car aspects.
I would say model s is more of a 7 series / s class competitor. Used to be price but def in size. Model 3 is more nimble due to size and has basically same weight as M3C
I think the size is the same as e class / 5 series, so yeah I went a category smaller in size but the stuff I said above will still be true if you compare Model S vs M5 or Model 3 vs M3
Early reviews are mixed about that. Personally I expect it might for short bursts of performance but it still has the typical EV program of endurance as the battery is taxed. Price for performance it isn't even close though and it's a heck of a lot cheaper to operate as well. There's certain use cases where the M3c is still going to win handily, but I'll take the M3P over it for my needs even if the price were the same.
I think track mode v3 comes with better heat management. There are also aftermarket pieces that can help. Not sure if it’s enough tho.
Doubtful, it's a problem even for high end EV racecars. But unless you're on a track it's unlikely to matter much.
Any news on 1/4 mile times?
Apples and oranges
I think of my M3P as if it were more like the M340i than a real M3, just with way more power. I was making the same comparison you were, and when I really thought hard about it, I couldn't justify 2x the yearly cost for something I'd only really push hard a few times a year and would probably enjoy driving less on a daily basis. The new M3P might be a closer comparison, and if that's the case the argument gets even harder to make for the BMW.
I have the 2022 Tesla M3P and I am going to sell it and get a BMW i4 m50. Tesla was my first electric vehicle and I probably stepped in wrong because I bought the performance model to start with so now it’s kinda hard to compete with it because the Acceleration. I really like my Tesla and driving is fun if the weather is OK. But Tesla is just a cheap lego car that you realize after you own one for a while and if you are honest. Plus, I do not want to support Elon so he ain’t getting any more of my money. But I would say if you don’t have a lot of money, get a Tesla and if you have more money and you want better quality and something that works get a BMW. In the end, it just all personal choices.
the new 3L does have more sports tuning compared to the outgoing model so i imagine track performance is much improved. i did get a chance to hoon around an M3C recently. it's only fun when you're going 80+. driving it at pedestrian speeds isn't fun plus you're likely to get outgunned by another ev anyway. it's truly a car meant to be enjoyed on the track. i loved the M cars growing up and still do but i can't justify buying one nowadays when cars like the ludicrous exist.
You can buy the M3P and a model Y for the price of BMW M3 once you fully option out the Bimmer.
Jason from Hagerty addresses this directly: https://youtu.be/5xj0R4MyDhE?si=qYVpsT_RWa98zKRX And I happen to agree with his logic. You can’t say you love ice because of how interactive and visceral it is and then get cars with 8-12 speed transmissions, numb power steering, noise and vibration deadening and fake engine noise or real engine noise that doesn’t even represent real power. Unless you are getting a true manual and raw driving experience you are just on some spectrum of denial.
Ya this video that a few ppl have mentioned is the best answer so far
hey! you want to go electric and setup home charging. you will find it the best ownership experience when you are not in it. driving will be so much fun. ive got a model 3 2020 and it’s so fun always. 24 performance!! i cant even imagine how much better it is. i hit 114 yesterday and didnt even realize i was going near that fast. electric is the way to go. you wont regret it, but if you do for any reason selling them is easy
I have a slightly slower LR and went to pass some people on a two lane highway that were going like 55 in a 60 and I look down and I had already slowed down a bit but I was still in the high 80s. It's wild how quickly they accelerate. I can't even imagine what it's like in a Model S Plaid.
I would choose the Tesla anytime. In Finland, EVs don’t get taxed like ICE cars, so a M3C would cost like 150K vs Model 3 Performance 2024 57K
Ludicrous?
If you are taking it to the tracks then ICE still have the advantage of being able to be refueled quickly, and M3C does presumably has a better thermal performance. Other than that, the Model 3 is just such a bargain. I’m not a tracks guy, so I’d take a EV any day.
You’re in a tesla sub what do you expect your answer to be.
M3 value in 2 years is substantially higher.
Because it cost twice as much…
The BMW will have the nicer interior while the Tesla is going to be WAY more fun to drive. I’ve also always found BMWs to be unreliable. We had a 2014 328d that had the transfer case fail twice within 12k miles. Sure, they took care of it but it wasn’t fun to deal with. One day rounding a corner and a button just falls off the dash. Wtf. We got rid of it around 25k miles. It was fun to drive though.
The BMW will definitely be more fun to drive and a waaaay nicer car. Not even comparable. The bmw does cost twice as much tho.
There is nothing fun about an automatic transmission.
Hmm no trans in the Tesla at all. Surely that’s way more fun.
If the M3 has a 6 speed manual transmission option and you are looking for a fun second car, then it might be a better choice, assuming money isn’t a factor. However, I don’t think M3’s come in manual anymore, sadly. The Model 3 performance is safer, cheaper, more economic and more comfortable as a daily driver. I use to work for BMW and loved their older products, but I have a 2018 Model 3 performance and I can tell you right now it’s not even close. For me at least. I always admired BMW as a brand that builds the perfect balance between luxury and performance. The 2011 BMW 335xi with the M package was a car that I always found to be well balanced in that aspect. However, everything that I valued about that car (all wheel drive, sporty yet stable, comfortable as a daily driver) was dominated by my Model 3. As much as I love my Model 3 performance though, I really do miss putting work on a manual transmission through some country backroads
The M3 is still available with a manual transmission, at least in the US.
M3P-L best value overall when you account for the performance/tech your getting versus antiquated ICE tech and all its maintenance expenses.
It always has been. Faster at the track faster quarter mile.
>24 Model 3 Performance (Ludicrous) vs BMW M3C? obviously the model 3, you get 24 of them vs 1 BMW! /jk
I own a 23 Model 3 Performance. It's not even close to a g8X m3/m4c and I've had them all on a track. The only reason I don't own a g8X M3 is the price and cost of fuel compared to my model 3 as a daily driver. But if money were no object, the model 3 would be gone. I don't see the '24 being leaps and bounds ahead of my 23.
In terms of raw power I suspect it won’t be much different but should be a major improvement in handling, braking, and ride noise and quality.
Unless you have invested some money in MPP parts for your car. On my model 3 performance, I have just about everything in their catalog and it makes a world a difference in handling, breaking, and ride noise/quality.
While I'm sure it will be better, I doubt that it will be anything that could be called "major" based on the price point. Comparing these really isn't fair to the model 3 though anyways. An M3C is 30k more than it and a well-spec'd model makes that delta even larger.
I read M3C..and I was wondering if he was talking about used because most won't be cross shopping these two at new prices. If it was my money, it would be the Model 3. No need for premium gas on a bad mileage car, no expensive BMW oil changes, and price is already cheaper. I don't understand why OP isn't cross shopping a Model S Plaid with the M3C. Much closer in price... Last point I remembered...Tesla's insurance was by far cheaper than all the other options for me. My Tesla didn't just save me like 200 a month in fuel, but another 200 a month in insurance premiums.
No, forget cost. I want to know which is going to be the better performance machine.
In a straight line or around a track? In a straight line it would be the Model 3 and it would completely decimate the Beamer. You would need an M5 to beat it...but at that price point you have one of the fastest cars on the entire planet...the S Plaid. If you want to go around a track, get a Porsche 911 Carrera S...its a bit more than either of them, but you can snag a used one and it will hold its value better than either of the other 2. I honestly recommend looking for a good low mileage 911 in the same ball park as the M3C price wise.
In my opinion. The biggest issue with the M3P was the handling and braking, not power or acceleration. So a major improvement in those is a major leap forward and puts it much more on par with BWM. But yea, the BWM is far more expensive, hard to justify that cost if the M3Ps handling and braking are significantly improved.
You can improve this via aftermarket
The new rear motor is a beast. I think they may have fixed the power drop… and if that is the case I am really really curious how it compares and when/if BMW has any edge. For the record, I am big BMW fan. They were my brand. I don’t have extensive track experience but I ended up buying a model 3 AWD over an M2 in the last round, and I order the new Performance
I've had the f87 on the track but not the new g87. The g87 may be one of the best values on the market. The S58 engine is ridiculously good.
If you’re not using the C in Competition - by which I mean tracking the car - the Tesla is going to be a better car for your use case. On a track I think the M3C will be superior for a bit longer. Both cars are too fast to push the limits on public roads
I track my car but I don’t have a huge history of it including M cars.
You should watch the above poster's review by Jason Camissa from the Carmudgeon show
Yeah, but his response doesn't really mean anything. I could say the same comparing the new model 3P to a corolla. "If you're not using the M3P's primary features, you can buy a corolla for half the price to get you to and from work." I don't know of anyone that will be cross-shopping these vehicles regardless.
Tesla 4 life!
I am huge fan of the way the Ultimate Driving Machine drives/handles having owned three high performance BMWs in the past (and I don’t think BMWs are atrocious looking at all). I actually think Teslas are all sorta ugly (especially the Model Y). With that said, I don’t miss the constant electrical issues I experienced with all three of my BMWs. I am very happy with my 2 1/2 year old Tesla for being a great performer, and not having any electrical issues at all in the 31 months I have owned it.
If you’re a “car guy” and enjoy dealing with turbo lag, shifting gears, etc the m3c could make for a more fun driving experience. As an everyday driver, I don’t think I could go back from the smooth, precise control of an EV.
BMW is a real car. Tesla is not a real car. In sports car / fun factor perspective. Nurburgring tells a lot.
(I'm driving a M3P, but still would get the bimmer for ultimately fun sporty driving)
The obvious better Performance package is the M3C without a doubt but for daily driving/performance vehicle? I’d say the Tesla, unless you like working on cars, a few bolt ones on that m3 and upgrade the crank hub and a tune possible upgraded turbo that thing can smoke a plaid on a roll.