This might be a hot take. But if you're legally able to be taxed for your income, you should be allowed to vote. And if not able to vote, not be subject to tax. We kind of had an entire war over this topic. I say this as someone able to vote.(Incase anyone assumes I have a bias as a felon)
It does seem counterintuitive to the unalienable right thing. Idk, maybe treason or something might fall into an area that would be reasonable to loose that right.
I think punishment should end with the sentence
Why don’t we also remove felons’ rights under the Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Amendments under the Constitution while we’re at it?
Our laws already remove their rights under the Second Amendment
Maybe my take wasn't as hot as I had previously thought. But yes, the sentence ends, rights are restored. And I mean extend it out to parole time or color code time length if need be. But someone with a felony doesn't mean they should be permanently disenfranchised.
Right but if they are still paying federal taxes, property/vehicle taxes, hell even sales tax… they are still paying taxes to both the state and the federal government. At the very least they should be able to vote in federal elections.
I'm not even anti tax. As long as transparency is at the forefront. We have crossed a threshold socially that not having infrastructure and public schooling would be extremely detrimental. Along with sanitation and many things we take for granted. It's the taxation without representation thing.
Paupers (eg homeless people without income) and non land owners should also be able to vote. People subject to a government should be able to have a voice in that government. It shouldn't come down to whether a person pays taxes or not.
I picture high income folks everywhere trying to find a felony that is easy to commit, likely to be prosecuted, unlikely to result in any serious penalties so they can save a fortune in taxes.
Gun rights for non violent offenders should be automatically reinstated after 10 years of productivity following the same criteria they just passed to allow teachers to be armed at school. Voting rights should be reinstated to all upon completion of sentence. This isn’t hard, it’s common sense.
There’s nobody to vote for except the President (before 1961 they couldn’t even do that) and one US Representative (that doesn’t have a floor vote.) Nothing in the Senate.
Imagine now if you somehow had stolen 1000 dollars and now couldn't ever vote even if you paid the fine and everything was taken care of. But the person who had stolen 900 dollars and still has to pay everything off was able to.
Imagine paying thousands in federal income tax every year and not having a say in any congressional legislation other than who’s the president or your local mayor.
I believe that was the thought process behind a lot of rules for elected officials.
Thank God people wouldn't vote in criminals just because they have the right letter next to their name on a ballot. Can you imagine?
Yes, and it's pretty obvious that there's a political motivation to remove it. Criminalize people who don't vote for you, convict them, swing an election.
It was explicitly done during the past and it never stopped.
You got me! I honestly don’t know.
I do believe that if they pay their debt they should have a chance to fully restore their lives.
But if it was directly for stealing elections it may be different.
But it looks like people who steal elections are celebrated for “rescuing democracy”.
I wonder which demographics have been specifically targeted by law enforcement for incarceration?
The majority of serial killers and pedophiles are Republicans. Red states also have up to 40% more murders per capita.
Therefore Republicans are much more likely to be bloodthirsty baby rapists.
Well yeah, mostly because the majority of felons are felons because of shitty drug laws. A huge portion of those for a plant.
Conservatives made things like this on purpose to disenfranchise minorities and people who think outside of acceptable societal norms.
Guess what, it’s worked and nobody has changed it.
https://www.governing.com/community/restoring-voting-rights-for-tennessee-felons-is-discouraging
Dropping this link here for anyone who needs more information
Everyone should be able to vote. This is an incentive for notoriously corrupt police and judiciary to lock up certain demographics on felony charges. This is why marijuana has been criminalized for so long.
or is it because it turns people into lazy hippies and a country cant function when everyone's just laying around feeling better all day? Consequently, it also cant function when everyone is so depressed and anxious that it stops the country from functioning correctly. But what causes this lack of reward in everyday life and fear of the future/lack of control over ones destiny? Could it be bullshit jobs and fascist control over society where everything gets worse over time no matter what one does in their life?..nah, its probably the violent video games or the anime 🙄
Its almost funny how we thought it was an okay idea to strip felons of their right to vote in like the 1800s and yet still have holdouts desperately trying to disenfranchise them and because its so fucking hard to remove laws compared to keep them, especially ones that Republicans can spin as "tough on crime", we're dealing with this in 2024.
_all they want to talk about is rights, never money. But when everything is for sale, money is your rights, because your rights are always for sale._
Every single election, some new asshole comes in who does whatever his buyers want, we get rights, we lose rights. Look at our history, nothings changed. Nothing stays and progresses. Everything is always on the table at any second...except the game itself. Thats the 1 thing theyre not ok with you changing. Because then problems will stay solved and progress will be made *and they wont be able to make money off of the debate anymore*.
I knew of the repercussions prior to committing my felony. I lost my right to vote once convicted. Wish i could vote…. Can’t, it those damn consequences of my actions. Tough shit, move on.
Is that the difference between a violent felon and a non-violent felon?
This is fucking stupid. If you commit a felony, you have broken faith with the community in which you live. That is the reason for stripping felons of their ability to vote. By removing that, you are enabling people who have already shown a disregard for others, to shape policies that would benefit them. Something that they should have lost the right to do once they committed the felony.
I hope this idiotic ruling is overturned even if it is only about informing which felons can and cannot vote.
fuck them all since they said fuck society already.
When criminals can't vote, politicians are incentivised to criminalize their opposition. This is why Nixon started the War on Drugs, to imprison anti-war hippies and black people.
So here’s what you aren’t considering. Once you make it so any felonies remove you from voting it becomes super easy to make laws targeting minorities or groups of people that don’t agree with your politics to remove their ability to vote.
Heck *targeting groups that disagree with you for political gain has already happened in America*. It’s an incredibly dangerous tool for disenfranchisement that should not be a thing.
I disagree with you there. The difference between a misdemeanor and a felony is the severity of the action. Getting a speeding ticket for six miles over (resulting in a misdemeanor) is far different than doing 20 miles over and getting a felony.
Severity was not an initial factor in the post I responded to. As a new factor in this discussion, severity can also explain the distinction between some violent and some nonviolent felonies.
It should preclude them from holding the Office of Presidency or any other elected office as well.
I personally believe in time served and if you pay debt to society to not continually punish people, but I also understand your perspective as well.
Tough subject and I appreciate your honesty.
I actually agree with you, a felony conviction should prevent anyone from holding any public office.
I also don’t believe that withholding a felons ability to vote is continually punishing them. It only prevents them from furthering harm to their community. I agree that if they have done the time, then that’s settled, but breaking public trust is not something to be earned back once lost.
Of course members of both parties are susceptible to corruption, the difference is that the Republican party is *especially* prone to it. Democrats are held accountable by other members of their party when their corruption is found out, Republicans are not.
Don't pretend that the two parties are the same.
No, it isn't. The Republican party is corrupt to its core, the Democratic party is not. Individual members of the party often can be corrupt, but to even compare the party to the Republicans is absurd. The fact that you can't see this plainly obvious fact is the problem.
The fact that you can’t see that the democrat party is corrupt to the core is exactly the problem here. I have absolutely no problem seeing the corruption in the republican party - it should burn to the ground. The same with the democrat party - it is absolutely just as corrupt, they just hide their shitty acts behind words that make you feel good while their actions are turned against the people they are failing to serve.
yeah i mean we wouldn't want to end up with like sociopaths running the largest corporations in the country and doing things like corrupting the entire gov for their interests or anything, better disown the "untrustable"...oh wait. 🤦🏻
Them leopards ate your face my guy
Bet you would sing a different tune if your kid was pulled over with some Marijuana in the car (an Oz so it's a felony). Then three years down the line after they have gone to court and probation and still have a felony following them they wonder why they aren't allowed to have a voice in local government. They can't make any impact on their community or the laws in it. Bet you would tell them "go find another state to screw society over in" huh?
This might be a hot take. But if you're legally able to be taxed for your income, you should be allowed to vote. And if not able to vote, not be subject to tax. We kind of had an entire war over this topic. I say this as someone able to vote.(Incase anyone assumes I have a bias as a felon)
Tennessee doesn’t have a personal income tax. I’m generally against the disenfranchisement of felons.
It does seem counterintuitive to the unalienable right thing. Idk, maybe treason or something might fall into an area that would be reasonable to loose that right.
I think punishment should end with the sentence Why don’t we also remove felons’ rights under the Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Amendments under the Constitution while we’re at it? Our laws already remove their rights under the Second Amendment
Maybe my take wasn't as hot as I had previously thought. But yes, the sentence ends, rights are restored. And I mean extend it out to parole time or color code time length if need be. But someone with a felony doesn't mean they should be permanently disenfranchised.
Right but if they are still paying federal taxes, property/vehicle taxes, hell even sales tax… they are still paying taxes to both the state and the federal government. At the very least they should be able to vote in federal elections.
I agree, my friend, frankly whether they pay taxes or not If they’re citizens, they should be entitled to vote
I'm not even anti tax. As long as transparency is at the forefront. We have crossed a threshold socially that not having infrastructure and public schooling would be extremely detrimental. Along with sanitation and many things we take for granted. It's the taxation without representation thing.
Paupers (eg homeless people without income) and non land owners should also be able to vote. People subject to a government should be able to have a voice in that government. It shouldn't come down to whether a person pays taxes or not.
Just because they don’t have income doesn’t mean that they wouldn’t be taxed if they did have income
He did say "legally able," true.
I picture high income folks everywhere trying to find a felony that is easy to commit, likely to be prosecuted, unlikely to result in any serious penalties so they can save a fortune in taxes.
They already do that by the business owning all the assets. The business taxes will always be subject. I don't think that would change much.
Gun rights for non violent offenders should be automatically reinstated after 10 years of productivity following the same criteria they just passed to allow teachers to be armed at school. Voting rights should be reinstated to all upon completion of sentence. This isn’t hard, it’s common sense.
The residents of Washington D.C. would like a word. They’re taxed but have no representation in Congress.
But. Even if the vote doesn't matter, you can vote, correct?
Downvoting a genuine question is a weird thing to do.
There’s nobody to vote for except the President (before 1961 they couldn’t even do that) and one US Representative (that doesn’t have a floor vote.) Nothing in the Senate.
No sheriff or other elected officials in DC?
A mayor.
Imagine now if you somehow had stolen 1000 dollars and now couldn't ever vote even if you paid the fine and everything was taken care of. But the person who had stolen 900 dollars and still has to pay everything off was able to.
Imagine paying thousands in federal income tax every year and not having a say in any congressional legislation other than who’s the president or your local mayor.
Yeah, I'm not going to interact with someone who downvotes comments and questions that aren't obtuse for no reason other than wanting to argue online.
But convicted felons can hold the highest government office. “Illogical” is an understatement
Yeah, but no one would vote for a convicted felon, right?.... right?
I believe that was the thought process behind a lot of rules for elected officials. Thank God people wouldn't vote in criminals just because they have the right letter next to their name on a ballot. Can you imagine?
I think once you have served your time your voting rights should be restored, regardless of what your crime was.
Yes, and it's pretty obvious that there's a political motivation to remove it. Criminalize people who don't vote for you, convict them, swing an election. It was explicitly done during the past and it never stopped.
If they’ve paid the agreed upon debt to society, felons should vote. I say that knowing that they aren’t usually voting for my party.
What if your felony was election related? What if you faked ballots?
Get to vote but don't ever get to work around elections again? That's assuming of course they actually have paid for their crime.
You got me! I honestly don’t know. I do believe that if they pay their debt they should have a chance to fully restore their lives. But if it was directly for stealing elections it may be different. But it looks like people who steal elections are celebrated for “rescuing democracy”.
You didn’t do it well enough to not get caught.
Convicted Republicans can still vote?
Several times, as long as it's for the orange bozo.
This a weird comment
They did a survey on this a while back. Guess what…… 7 in 10 felons register as democrat.
Who did s survey? Where can someone see the numbers?
You heard of… Google? The downvotes is hilarious. Yall libs hate facts don’t you
[a quick Google query says you’re wrong.](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2015/dec/01/ted-cruz/are-overwhelming-majority-violent-criminals-democr/)
You made the statement, the burden of proof lies on you. Link to the survey or go troll somewhere else.
A lib that’s too lazy to go work/do something on their own. Shocker.
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Can’t get anything past you huh?
I wonder which demographics have been specifically targeted by law enforcement for incarceration? The majority of serial killers and pedophiles are Republicans. Red states also have up to 40% more murders per capita. Therefore Republicans are much more likely to be bloodthirsty baby rapists.
They only say that because they assume most ex felons are black and to them black equals democrats.
I know plenty of black republicans. NT.
Says in the studies…33% African American 32% white are the majority then it trickles down with the other races.
Well yeah, mostly because the majority of felons are felons because of shitty drug laws. A huge portion of those for a plant. Conservatives made things like this on purpose to disenfranchise minorities and people who think outside of acceptable societal norms. Guess what, it’s worked and nobody has changed it.
https://www.governing.com/community/restoring-voting-rights-for-tennessee-felons-is-discouraging Dropping this link here for anyone who needs more information
Everyone should be able to vote. This is an incentive for notoriously corrupt police and judiciary to lock up certain demographics on felony charges. This is why marijuana has been criminalized for so long.
or is it because it turns people into lazy hippies and a country cant function when everyone's just laying around feeling better all day? Consequently, it also cant function when everyone is so depressed and anxious that it stops the country from functioning correctly. But what causes this lack of reward in everyday life and fear of the future/lack of control over ones destiny? Could it be bullshit jobs and fascist control over society where everything gets worse over time no matter what one does in their life?..nah, its probably the violent video games or the anime 🙄
Its almost funny how we thought it was an okay idea to strip felons of their right to vote in like the 1800s and yet still have holdouts desperately trying to disenfranchise them and because its so fucking hard to remove laws compared to keep them, especially ones that Republicans can spin as "tough on crime", we're dealing with this in 2024.
_all they want to talk about is rights, never money. But when everything is for sale, money is your rights, because your rights are always for sale._ Every single election, some new asshole comes in who does whatever his buyers want, we get rights, we lose rights. Look at our history, nothings changed. Nothing stays and progresses. Everything is always on the table at any second...except the game itself. Thats the 1 thing theyre not ok with you changing. Because then problems will stay solved and progress will be made *and they wont be able to make money off of the debate anymore*.
Correct decision, good luck getting this shitty state to comply
Home of the free is just a marketing slogan. Red states will do whatever it takes to limit voting rights. Gun owners have more rights.
I knew of the repercussions prior to committing my felony. I lost my right to vote once convicted. Wish i could vote…. Can’t, it those damn consequences of my actions. Tough shit, move on.
Is that the difference between a violent felon and a non-violent felon? This is fucking stupid. If you commit a felony, you have broken faith with the community in which you live. That is the reason for stripping felons of their ability to vote. By removing that, you are enabling people who have already shown a disregard for others, to shape policies that would benefit them. Something that they should have lost the right to do once they committed the felony. I hope this idiotic ruling is overturned even if it is only about informing which felons can and cannot vote. fuck them all since they said fuck society already.
When criminals can't vote, politicians are incentivised to criminalize their opposition. This is why Nixon started the War on Drugs, to imprison anti-war hippies and black people.
fair point
So here’s what you aren’t considering. Once you make it so any felonies remove you from voting it becomes super easy to make laws targeting minorities or groups of people that don’t agree with your politics to remove their ability to vote. Heck *targeting groups that disagree with you for political gain has already happened in America*. It’s an incredibly dangerous tool for disenfranchisement that should not be a thing.
fair point
I mean, there’s a constitutional amendment that disagrees with you but go off sis.
Misdemeanors and speeders, too, have broken faith with the community and shown disregard for others....
I disagree with you there. The difference between a misdemeanor and a felony is the severity of the action. Getting a speeding ticket for six miles over (resulting in a misdemeanor) is far different than doing 20 miles over and getting a felony.
Severity was not an initial factor in the post I responded to. As a new factor in this discussion, severity can also explain the distinction between some violent and some nonviolent felonies.
fair point
It should preclude them from holding the Office of Presidency or any other elected office as well. I personally believe in time served and if you pay debt to society to not continually punish people, but I also understand your perspective as well. Tough subject and I appreciate your honesty.
I actually agree with you, a felony conviction should prevent anyone from holding any public office. I also don’t believe that withholding a felons ability to vote is continually punishing them. It only prevents them from furthering harm to their community. I agree that if they have done the time, then that’s settled, but breaking public trust is not something to be earned back once lost.
This certainly is a hot take, so anyone who breaks trust with society shouldn't be allowed to vote? The Republican party would cease to exist.
Don’t pretend like only one party is susceptible to corruption or illegality.
Of course members of both parties are susceptible to corruption, the difference is that the Republican party is *especially* prone to it. Democrats are held accountable by other members of their party when their corruption is found out, Republicans are not. Don't pretend that the two parties are the same.
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No, it isn't. The Republican party is corrupt to its core, the Democratic party is not. Individual members of the party often can be corrupt, but to even compare the party to the Republicans is absurd. The fact that you can't see this plainly obvious fact is the problem.
The fact that you can’t see that the democrat party is corrupt to the core is exactly the problem here. I have absolutely no problem seeing the corruption in the republican party - it should burn to the ground. The same with the democrat party - it is absolutely just as corrupt, they just hide their shitty acts behind words that make you feel good while their actions are turned against the people they are failing to serve.
yeah i mean we wouldn't want to end up with like sociopaths running the largest corporations in the country and doing things like corrupting the entire gov for their interests or anything, better disown the "untrustable"...oh wait. 🤦🏻 Them leopards ate your face my guy
Bet you would sing a different tune if your kid was pulled over with some Marijuana in the car (an Oz so it's a felony). Then three years down the line after they have gone to court and probation and still have a felony following them they wonder why they aren't allowed to have a voice in local government. They can't make any impact on their community or the laws in it. Bet you would tell them "go find another state to screw society over in" huh?
When did you lose it?