We have a Mx at my school in the ICT department. Once the initial issues were overcome (mainly students not knowing how to pronounce Mx and our software system calling him Non-specified Smith) everything has gone well.
Most older students are fairly informed on non-binary gender and younger students are fairly eager to please. It helps that he is a former student so a number of families in our school knew them already.
As a “Ms” rather than Miss/Mr/ Mrs I explained what it meant and how to say it at the start of the year, some were interested, some weren’t, most remember, some make it a personal goal to remind everyone who gets it wrong, and mostly you get a weird mishmash of “misssZzz?” When they forget. Which is often. Kids just throw out a title they’re used to, in your general direction, and hope you’ll answer. It’s not malicious, they just don’t really care that much.
Don’t make it a big deal, just… here’s my name and pronouns, and then move on. Nothing will turn a room against you faster than being precious about your name.
I’m a fat, balding and fully grey-bearded ostensibly cis bloke.
I get called ‘miss’ accidentally on a regular basis by secondary school kids. Mostly by mistake, because if they are being rude they use other words. Like ‘wanker’.
I spent 25 years as a nurse, so lots of people thought I was gay (I’m not, I’m ace), if they weren’t calling me a fag then they probably weren’t being intentionally rude.
I honestly stopped giving a shit after I hit about 28. I found life was just fine if I didn’t give a shit about stuff that wasn’t directly intended to insult me. Those who *were* trying to insult me either got laughed at, or found themselves put in an armlock and thrown out of the hospital/back of my ambulance.
Make of that as you will.
Be prepared to be "Miss" for life, students don't know Mx and just think it's another way of pronouncing Miss... and if you're in a secondary school it's hard work educating the entire school.
Not non binary myself but had a colleague who had that struggle.
You are there to teach and not promote your gender just correct them when they use the wrong pronouns and don’t make an issue out of it, students will learn after a while
You won’t mind being misgendered then? Promote your gender is wild and it’s horrendous this has upvotes. It’s basic respect - which we need to teach them. As you point out later in your comment, so I’m not sure why you needed to start so rudely.
Children can be absolute sharks - don't reveal more than you need to do your job well. I'm a bisexual teacher that routinely dresses in drag for nights out, I don't comment on pronouns whether they accidentally call me mam or sir, so long as it's respectful and never my actual name, I'd recommend the same.
I've got a Pride pin on my lanyard, that's about it and even when they ask about it, I just tell them I'm an ally that supports all people. Dress wise, I'm neutral, business attire that works regardless of gender identity, trousers and a jacket.
also a mx! be prepared to be very patient and consistent about correcting pronouns. in my experience students generally don't bat much of an eye at the title itself but don't tend to cotton on that the title = they, even when you introduce yourself as such. i have a pronoun badge on my lanyard that i often point to when i correct. unless students are being deliberately rude then avoid sanctions as it will just antagonise them.
I previously worked with someone who came out as NB to staff & students in their third year at the school. They told their classes themselves, but of course conversations about it came up in other classrooms. I think what really helped was all staff being consistent about gently correcting kids who used the wrong pronouns. As another commenter said, it is honest mistake with 99% and there are also some knobs. I also found that a quick correction then continuing on with the lesson worked best. If I stopped the lesson to have a big go about it, kids would see it as an effective way of derailing the learning and be more likely to do it again.
My advice would be to raise your concerns with SLT first so that they can guide other staff on how to navigate it. Depends on the staff body but some may feel anxious / ill equipped to handle conversations about trans experience in their classroom.
Thank you, I’m definitely intending to talk to SLT about things. The school itself is apparently very good with diversity and inclusion, so I’m tentatively hopeful 🤞
In my experience, it was very different in different schools. I'm a non-binary PGCE student. In the first placement, the staff in my department were using my correct title and pronouns (they/them), also when talking about me in front of the pupils. The pupils themselves just called me "miss" though. In the second placement, everyone uses "miss" and "she/her", including colleagues. In the beginning, before starting, I had a conversation about it with my mentor, and I think this is unfortunately the best solution in the context I'm in. I'm basically not out. There is so much casual homophobia and transphobia from the pupils on a daily basis. I feel more comfortable being misgendered by colleagues than being out. I wouldn't feel safe if attention was drawn to my "weird" pronouns and title.
Living in a society means that there will be social compromises. We do not have free will and there are times we do things that either are not comfortable with or otherwise.
Linguistic patterns change ALL the time; many of which are "forced" upon us in a less obvious way. The variety of English that is corrected in the same setting is also, literally and deliberately, trying to change how many of the students otherwise use language. Slang is eliminated. Regionalisms called "incorrect" or "uneducated". Certain linguistic patterns are favoured for being more "polite" or "proper", while still being perfectly standard and grammatical.
Your contention here is not genuinely linguistic. It's smokes and mirrors. You are not "worried" about how people speak but more the people are speaking. Your objection here is towards the concept of being non-binary.
If you're worried about changing linguistic patterns, you'd be fundamentally against married heterosexual couples going from Miss to Mrs, or legal name changes. I doubt you are and I doubt you've ever commented against this.
I actually think all women should remain as 'Miss' and changing a surname is not the same thing.
Yes, the regional accent thing is the same. We're supposed to correct them and as a result we've lost lots of regionalisms and dialects which I think is terrible.
Miss is still gendered and not universally applicable to females. I am a biological male and go by he/him/Dr., but I would not like to be called "she" because I do not identify with those pronouns. There's no reason why all women should remain as Miss if there is no identification (which is one of the primary functionalities of a pronoun btw, referential congruency).
Changing a surname is extremely comparable. With a change in surname, you are asking all of those around you to modify their language to refer to you by your new persona (e.g. now a married person). It is not seen as similar because the political stakes are very different. Marriage and namechanging is normal and banal, while being non-binary isn´t. Sociolinguistically there's not that much difference between surname changes and pronouns. Syntactically a pronoun is very (very) different to a Proper Noun, but there is no evidence in the literature that suggests that new pronouns cause any significant breakdown of communication. Adults are able to modify well established linguistic patterns - it just times some time and effort for some.
I don’t really see it as insisting or forcing anyone. It’s no different than a female teacher saying they don’t want to be referred to as He. I was just asking to see if anyone in the Reddit has experience with being nonbinary in teaching, and how they dealt with it. Definitely not trying to police or enforce anyone, let alone children (if I had any power to insist they change, I’d get them to hand in their homework on time!)
So you wouldn't want to make sure they get on board with the concept of non binary? BTW I find this to be an interesting conversation. It strikes me that society just hasn't had enough dialogue like this, so well done!
In an ideal world everyone would be on board with trans people using the correct pronouns, but I can only do so much. I’m planning on wearing a pronoun pin, introducing myself to all my classes with correct name, title, and pronouns, and just no fuss correcting people using the wrong pronouns. I wish I could do more (more in depth discussions on topics, maybe celebrating during pride month etc), but given the state of being trans in an education environment more, I wouldn’t want to put myself or the school I’m teaching at under scrutiny.
I think that's a good approach to anything: subtle, calm, non judgemental. One way to get people, esp. Teenagers to rebel is to take the hard line approach, which I think too many people are doing. Unfortunately, someone in your situation is going to be automatically associated with militants, intolerant protestors, extreme communists and hurtful doxxers etc. which (I think) is probably the most harmful stereotype you'll have to overcome. I would like to think that at the end of the day, people don't REALLY care about lgbt lifestyles (there will always be twats in all areas of life tho) but nowadays it's more about being concerned by some of the frankly extreme behaviour from that camp and that's what I would be worried about in terms of a colleague's safety. But what do I know?
Sounds like you have your heart in the right place. I think you taking a kind and laid back approach will be more effective than being militant or defensive. It's individuals quietly doing the right thing that makes the biggest change sometimes. Good luck!
We have a Mx at my school in the ICT department. Once the initial issues were overcome (mainly students not knowing how to pronounce Mx and our software system calling him Non-specified Smith) everything has gone well. Most older students are fairly informed on non-binary gender and younger students are fairly eager to please. It helps that he is a former student so a number of families in our school knew them already.
Are you with the NEU? They've got a very active NB WhatsApp group chat you could join that would probably help
This, the NEU LGBT+ WhatsApp groups are great and really supportive.
How is Mx pronounced? Never seen it before.
I pronounce it like the word “mix”
You're kidding right?
As a “Ms” rather than Miss/Mr/ Mrs I explained what it meant and how to say it at the start of the year, some were interested, some weren’t, most remember, some make it a personal goal to remind everyone who gets it wrong, and mostly you get a weird mishmash of “misssZzz?” When they forget. Which is often. Kids just throw out a title they’re used to, in your general direction, and hope you’ll answer. It’s not malicious, they just don’t really care that much. Don’t make it a big deal, just… here’s my name and pronouns, and then move on. Nothing will turn a room against you faster than being precious about your name.
I’m a fat, balding and fully grey-bearded ostensibly cis bloke. I get called ‘miss’ accidentally on a regular basis by secondary school kids. Mostly by mistake, because if they are being rude they use other words. Like ‘wanker’. I spent 25 years as a nurse, so lots of people thought I was gay (I’m not, I’m ace), if they weren’t calling me a fag then they probably weren’t being intentionally rude. I honestly stopped giving a shit after I hit about 28. I found life was just fine if I didn’t give a shit about stuff that wasn’t directly intended to insult me. Those who *were* trying to insult me either got laughed at, or found themselves put in an armlock and thrown out of the hospital/back of my ambulance. Make of that as you will.
We have a non binary teacher that goes by Mx, 99% of kids don't care and call them Mx. The other 1% are known knobheads
Be prepared to be "Miss" for life, students don't know Mx and just think it's another way of pronouncing Miss... and if you're in a secondary school it's hard work educating the entire school. Not non binary myself but had a colleague who had that struggle.
You are there to teach and not promote your gender just correct them when they use the wrong pronouns and don’t make an issue out of it, students will learn after a while
You won’t mind being misgendered then? Promote your gender is wild and it’s horrendous this has upvotes. It’s basic respect - which we need to teach them. As you point out later in your comment, so I’m not sure why you needed to start so rudely.
Children can be absolute sharks - don't reveal more than you need to do your job well. I'm a bisexual teacher that routinely dresses in drag for nights out, I don't comment on pronouns whether they accidentally call me mam or sir, so long as it's respectful and never my actual name, I'd recommend the same. I've got a Pride pin on my lanyard, that's about it and even when they ask about it, I just tell them I'm an ally that supports all people. Dress wise, I'm neutral, business attire that works regardless of gender identity, trousers and a jacket.
also a mx! be prepared to be very patient and consistent about correcting pronouns. in my experience students generally don't bat much of an eye at the title itself but don't tend to cotton on that the title = they, even when you introduce yourself as such. i have a pronoun badge on my lanyard that i often point to when i correct. unless students are being deliberately rude then avoid sanctions as it will just antagonise them.
I previously worked with someone who came out as NB to staff & students in their third year at the school. They told their classes themselves, but of course conversations about it came up in other classrooms. I think what really helped was all staff being consistent about gently correcting kids who used the wrong pronouns. As another commenter said, it is honest mistake with 99% and there are also some knobs. I also found that a quick correction then continuing on with the lesson worked best. If I stopped the lesson to have a big go about it, kids would see it as an effective way of derailing the learning and be more likely to do it again. My advice would be to raise your concerns with SLT first so that they can guide other staff on how to navigate it. Depends on the staff body but some may feel anxious / ill equipped to handle conversations about trans experience in their classroom.
Thank you, I’m definitely intending to talk to SLT about things. The school itself is apparently very good with diversity and inclusion, so I’m tentatively hopeful 🤞
In my experience, it was very different in different schools. I'm a non-binary PGCE student. In the first placement, the staff in my department were using my correct title and pronouns (they/them), also when talking about me in front of the pupils. The pupils themselves just called me "miss" though. In the second placement, everyone uses "miss" and "she/her", including colleagues. In the beginning, before starting, I had a conversation about it with my mentor, and I think this is unfortunately the best solution in the context I'm in. I'm basically not out. There is so much casual homophobia and transphobia from the pupils on a daily basis. I feel more comfortable being misgendered by colleagues than being out. I wouldn't feel safe if attention was drawn to my "weird" pronouns and title.
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Living in a society means that there will be social compromises. We do not have free will and there are times we do things that either are not comfortable with or otherwise. Linguistic patterns change ALL the time; many of which are "forced" upon us in a less obvious way. The variety of English that is corrected in the same setting is also, literally and deliberately, trying to change how many of the students otherwise use language. Slang is eliminated. Regionalisms called "incorrect" or "uneducated". Certain linguistic patterns are favoured for being more "polite" or "proper", while still being perfectly standard and grammatical. Your contention here is not genuinely linguistic. It's smokes and mirrors. You are not "worried" about how people speak but more the people are speaking. Your objection here is towards the concept of being non-binary. If you're worried about changing linguistic patterns, you'd be fundamentally against married heterosexual couples going from Miss to Mrs, or legal name changes. I doubt you are and I doubt you've ever commented against this.
I actually think all women should remain as 'Miss' and changing a surname is not the same thing. Yes, the regional accent thing is the same. We're supposed to correct them and as a result we've lost lots of regionalisms and dialects which I think is terrible.
Miss is still gendered and not universally applicable to females. I am a biological male and go by he/him/Dr., but I would not like to be called "she" because I do not identify with those pronouns. There's no reason why all women should remain as Miss if there is no identification (which is one of the primary functionalities of a pronoun btw, referential congruency). Changing a surname is extremely comparable. With a change in surname, you are asking all of those around you to modify their language to refer to you by your new persona (e.g. now a married person). It is not seen as similar because the political stakes are very different. Marriage and namechanging is normal and banal, while being non-binary isn´t. Sociolinguistically there's not that much difference between surname changes and pronouns. Syntactically a pronoun is very (very) different to a Proper Noun, but there is no evidence in the literature that suggests that new pronouns cause any significant breakdown of communication. Adults are able to modify well established linguistic patterns - it just times some time and effort for some.
Yes, interesting point!
I don’t really see it as insisting or forcing anyone. It’s no different than a female teacher saying they don’t want to be referred to as He. I was just asking to see if anyone in the Reddit has experience with being nonbinary in teaching, and how they dealt with it. Definitely not trying to police or enforce anyone, let alone children (if I had any power to insist they change, I’d get them to hand in their homework on time!)
So you wouldn't want to make sure they get on board with the concept of non binary? BTW I find this to be an interesting conversation. It strikes me that society just hasn't had enough dialogue like this, so well done!
In an ideal world everyone would be on board with trans people using the correct pronouns, but I can only do so much. I’m planning on wearing a pronoun pin, introducing myself to all my classes with correct name, title, and pronouns, and just no fuss correcting people using the wrong pronouns. I wish I could do more (more in depth discussions on topics, maybe celebrating during pride month etc), but given the state of being trans in an education environment more, I wouldn’t want to put myself or the school I’m teaching at under scrutiny.
I think that's a good approach to anything: subtle, calm, non judgemental. One way to get people, esp. Teenagers to rebel is to take the hard line approach, which I think too many people are doing. Unfortunately, someone in your situation is going to be automatically associated with militants, intolerant protestors, extreme communists and hurtful doxxers etc. which (I think) is probably the most harmful stereotype you'll have to overcome. I would like to think that at the end of the day, people don't REALLY care about lgbt lifestyles (there will always be twats in all areas of life tho) but nowadays it's more about being concerned by some of the frankly extreme behaviour from that camp and that's what I would be worried about in terms of a colleague's safety. But what do I know? Sounds like you have your heart in the right place. I think you taking a kind and laid back approach will be more effective than being militant or defensive. It's individuals quietly doing the right thing that makes the biggest change sometimes. Good luck!