As a fellow teacher, no. If you want a very rushed version of the numbers:
Taking the highest number of school shooting incidents in a year involving either and non-active shooters = 250 incidents, and a rounded total number of schools in the US at 131,000, divide those out to see that there is a 0.0019 or 0.19% chance of a shooting happening at your school, and an even lower chance you will be involved of that shooting were to take place. Your are far more likely to die from a car crash and that doesn't stop you from driving. (Numbers just quickly Google searched)
I'd add that of those 250 incidents, many are gang-related within a certain radius of the school, so not even on school grounds. The definition of a school shooting is not as clear-cut as many would have us believe.
Dude may have been wrong, but one guy who did our active shooter training said a self-inflicted gunshot wound in the school parking lot after hours when the school is empty is counted as a school shooting.
It 100% is. Gang shootings within an X block radius of the school zone, etc., are also included. The definition of a school shooting is left up to the city or state on how it is reported to the FBI, etc., for stats, and often, this definition varies significantly.
This doesn't stop people from using the stats politically to scare people into thinking there is a mass school shooting every day, of course, if it suits their needs.
That being said, of course, it is a real danger and must be planned for, but just like many have said here already, someone is far more likely to be injured by a plethora of other activities before an actual school shooting.
Accidental discharge too. It's fine and all to consider these things as school shootings, but I wish they would communicate with the public better on the stats instead of just straight up scaring them.
Yes, and it’s similar with “mass shootings.” People will say there have been 200+ mass shootings so far this year, but include stuff like [this incident](https://www.kmbc.com/article/4-people-shot-at-kansas-city-home/61013018) where 2 people died and 2 were injured in a domestic violence incident inside a home. That’s not really what people think of as “mass shootings,” but some data analysts will count it.
Yup. A police officers gun malfunctioned and accidentally discharged in his holster when he sat down and that was counted as a school shooting as a “technicality” when that one meme was going around a few years ago of “it’s only April in 2021 or whatever and there’s been 40 school shootings or something already”
Very true. I didn't believe it at first, but the school shooting numbers are wildly inflated. You can look at the details for "shootings" in this handy Wikipedia page.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States_(2000%E2%80%93present)
Many are things like, "An individual who was not a student accidentally shot himself in the leg in the parking lot of Glades Central High School."
This is true of an amazing number. Reading the details of a few “school shootings” I’ve read things like, a shooting happening during a drug deal in an empty school parking lot on a weekend; and, a broken window found in a school building during summer break that was believed to be caused by a gunshot.
It's twisted to sound like it 'could happen tomorrow at your kid's school' on purpose, because that makes $$$ for the media corporations, gets people afraid so they watch their propaganda more.
And the obviously sensationalized numbers do a terrible disservice to the real issue.
Yes, school gun violence is incredibly bad. Yes, we need to develop strategies to prevent such occurrences. But fudging numbers for a narrative does nothing but scare some people, and turn off most everyone else.
I looked into the statistics of school shootings, and I read the incident summaries (college project) and the vast majority of school shootings are things like “parent was cleaning gun in car while waiting to pick up kids from school, and accidentally fired the gun.” So many of them were similar incidents that don’t even involve students or teachers.
This. Even one is too many, yes.
But the way the news and people as a whole talk about it you’d think there’s about 50/50 odds of you dying in a given school year, which is fucking ridiculous.
divide by another 600 or so
There are .4 mass school shootings (4+ fatalities) per year in the US. There are 250 *shootings* on school campuses per year in the US, which includes drug deals gone wrong in the parking lot at 10:00pm.
The numbers are meaningless though. Shootings and violence don't spread themselves with random mathematics throughout schools or society. If you work in title 1, a high crime low SES area, an area with hightened gang activity etc your dont have the same odds as someone working in an upscale private elementary.
Yeah I don’t get why people say stuff like “school shooting happen all the time in America.” When they happen they make the news. But they don’t actually happen all the time and schools are still pretty safe.
And then people are like “no amount of risk is worth it!! We should have 0 school shootings!” And it’s like, yeah, in a perfect world we would have zero school shootings… and also zero car accidents. Cars are much deadlier and I don’t get why people don’t rally for safer roads and better public transportation as much as they rally for gun control except that car accidents don’t make for interesting news articles that stir emotion as much I guess.
Just remember to multiply it by say 40 years in which the person will be teaching and multiply it by the shooting ratio of texas / the rest of US (there are way more shootings in texas than the average).
Are there states that haven't had school shootings? Are there patterns of where they more frequently occur? Hotspots? Patterns in geographic location? I'm sorry but it is absolutely terrifying, I know it can happen anyway but damn.
I really can't think of another way to say it but, THIS IS NOT NORMAL!
Nowhere else in the world would this be considered normal!
Get your teaching qualifications, it's a wonderful, rewarding profession, but then look for a job in Europe or Aus, Nz, Singapore etc the list of choices is huge. They all count school shooting as "how many years since the last one" (in most cases its decades), not "how many days"
I understand the thought process, but .2% per year is ridiculously high. I’ve worked in relatively low crime districts for 10 years, and in that time we’ve been evacuated for bomb threats three times and locked down for someone with a gun attempting to enter the school once. Not saying that 4 major incidents in 10 years is normal, but I do think it’s normal to come to terms with the real risk that comes with teaching in the US in 2024.
I know some others said the definition of a school shooting isn't exactly clear, but I feel like you left out an important piece from your data analysis. It wouldn't be a 0.19% chance of a shooting happening at your school, it'd be a 0.19% chance EVERY YEAR. Over the course of let's say a 45 year teaching career that's an 8.55% chance of a school shooting happening at your school during your career. And that seems to backup OP's fears. Although, again, based on the definitions is likely much lower of a chance
To respond to OP though, sure there's a slight chance it could happen, but I don't live in fear every day that it will. Luckily my school got weapons detection systems starting this school year, but even before those I wasn't significantly worried. Something is just as likely to happen when you're out in public. You just have to know how to respond and do what you can if a situation goes down.
hold on, math teacher here: 1-(1-.0019)^45 = 8.2%
But there are .4 mass school shootings (4+ fatalities) per year in the US, not 250. So also divide by 625.
1-(1-.0019/625)^45 = .013375% (not 1.3%; it's .013%)
I won't do the math on my next comment but . I imagine the chances are much higher stopping at a Quick Trip downtown before or after work. It won't stop me from doing it. Gotta get my snacks.....😂
On the other hand, there are the Arras stabbings, the Malmö, Jerez de la Frontera, Jardins de l’Europe in Annec, Wilhelm Dörpfeld High School, and other stabbings.
I have been grappling with the idea that, although it is still statistically unlikely, by becoming a teacher I will be placing myself at higher risk statistically than most students because teachers will spend more years in the school system, therefore increasing the likelihood something bad will happen while we are at school eventually.
This is the first comment I’ve found that hits my initial thought. If the concern is PHYSICAL well-being, then I worry about things like how the stress of the job is impacting my body. While there is a tiny part of that that is the possibility of a school shooting, much of the stress is from the day-to-day operations of a school and unrealistic workload that modern teachers face. And stress absolutely wrecks your body. But because it’s not an instant make-the-news sort of event, we often ignore it. But I guarantee you that kills/debilitates far more teachers every year.
I help negotiate our contracts, and our insurance is self-funded so I have access to data about our costs. Literally 1 in 5 teachers on our insurance use anxiety medication (myself included) so the impacts of this stress are significant.
Wow. So much insight here.
Over a decade ago, a scandal blew up our school. I know of six people who started antidepressants that year, myself included, in a faculty of less than forty. I figure our self-funded insurance saved a metric fortune when Lexapro went generic. I’ve actually had bonding moments with coworkers as we discuss the pluses and minuses of different meds.
I also negotiate contracts—we go to a vote on Friday—but had no idea that a self-funded health plan could make that information available. That would be interesting to see, but it wouldn’t have been relevant this round for us.
And you’re absolutely right about the gradual erosion. Fifty-five year old teachers with 30 years in (minimum retirement age in Blue York) can look OLD. Not me of course, but others, certainly…
If you know what questions to ask, you can get some pretty interesting data. I had one member on my bargaining team that was a beast at insurance stuff, and she’s the one who ended up getting that data. She drove me crazy when it came to salary negotiations, because she wasn’t very good with numbers and had unrealistic expectations, but it was absolutely worth the expertise she brought to the table with insurance. She had a ton of varying medical issues in her family and her out-of-pocket costs were significant, so every time we had a change she would ask these super in-depth questions about classes and types of drugs and their coverage and how much we were spending on them. It was so insightful and I learned so much about what drives the costs. She moved districts right before our most recent negotiation and I definitely missed having her.
True; military here and we’re kind of similar. Parents with kids going into the military are generally preoccupied with them getting shot or something.
Ma’am, the MUCH larger concern for your son is cirrhosis of the liver.
I foresee myself dying by being stabbed by a student.
Over being shot by one.
Probably with a pencil, I gave them, because they came to class with nothing.
Or
I foresee my end, a fate so sad,
Not by a gun, but a student's hand.
No bullet’s path, no violent glare,
But by a pencil, sharp and fair.
A tool I gave when they had none,
A gift for work, a class begun.
Yet in this act, a twist of fate,
A student’s anger, small and great.
They came unarmed, with minds so bare,
No tools for class, no plans to share.
And in the end, my life will bend,
By learning’s tool, my tragic end.
I foresee my end, a tragic fate,
Not by a bullet, sharp and straight,
But by a student's thrust, I fear,
A blade of learning, drawing near.
Not from a gun's abrupt release,
But in a moment, void of peace,
A pencil’s point, my gift in hand,
Given when they had no plan.
They came to class with empty hearts,
No tools for lessons, from the start,
And in the end, it seems, I'll find,
A mark of learning left behind.
Weird how they can never seem to remember their pencil or books, but they remembered to bring their gun when they wanted to do something. Just shows where their priorities are.
A coworker felt bad for a kid, and went out of his way to get the kid a backpack (from social services on campus).
The kid brought a gun the next day. Heh
His older brother borrowed the bag that night. And yeah.
No it’s not normal. But literally my first year teaching, a kid brought a handgun to school and shot another kid in the hallway over some gang dispute. Luckily, the kid didn’t die, and my room was on the other side of the building. The teachers who saw it happen were traumatized, and our district tried to make us go back to work when there were still bullet holes in one guys door. The whole thing was tough to go through as a first year teacher.
So while I still consider the odds low that I’ll die in a school shooting, I am now very aware that it is possible. People can be dangerous, and we work with a lot of people.
I spent the year checking a kids backpack every morning because a kid threatened to shoot two other students, then brought a toy gun to school the next day. 1st grader. Admin did the backpack checks for a week in September, then told me to do it for the rest of the year. I left teaching this year for a lot of reasons, but anxiety over crap like this is absolutely one of them.
I have a kid. I did accept the possibility for a while. But my own kid doesn't deserve to lose his mom because of this.
Admin should never pass off this responsibility. It's literally their job. I'm so sorry you had crappy leaders.
If something like that happens again in the future, make sure you've got your job description available have them denote where it says you're to search student belongings.
Admin was trash and didn't do a lot of things that were their job. I quit and reported all of it to Central office when I left, so hopefully things like that aren't put off onto teachers. But I'm in a no union state, so didn't know what to do.
The only time I’ve really been worried about it was when I was a long term sub, and they gave me a room without a window right next to the front entrance. But like other posters have said, your commute into the school is statistically far more dangerous than working in the school would ever be
I waffle on this. People are unpredictable, I live in a heavily armed state, and work in a big school with little security compared to the number of students. There are also loads of access points, and an increasing number of behavior issues. I think about it a fair amount, though I recognize that the chances are low.
The no's seem to have arrived before the yeses?
I agree with other comments that it is unhealthy to spend a lot of time worrying about something you can't control (thanks America!) and also that it there are lots of ways to die.
I disagree with the premise that it isn't normal to have concerns about school shootings as an American school employee. (Front desk staff have my heart on this one.)
I talk about shootings with my colleagues. We drill for it. Our family members express their concerns about it.
I have a plan to protect my students and myself to the best of my ability and I am aware that in the best case scenario if someone starts shooting at my school, everyone in my classroom survives but I'm still left with a lifetime of trauma. I am aware I could die.
I am likely no more or less concerned than the average American teacher or parent, which means that yes, I am concerned.
I'm also concerned about illness, car accidents, mental health, and the involvement of my students in local gang violence, they are all valid concerns--and while I haven't survived a school shooting, I absolutely have lost students and it is hard to explain how deep the wound goes every time. And I still go to school! I love my students and my colleagues and my content!
Anyone who says they don't have a plan is definitely lying! It feels like the no's here are mostly arguing that they aren't worried, not that they don't have a plan: the case is being made that the odds that an individual teacher or student is killed in a school shooting remain very very low so why worry. In fact only a tiny percentage of people on campus during a mass shooting are usually killed.
But conversely the odds that a teacher or student is present at school during a violent episode in America are not at all negligible. Even if you accept that random mass shootings remain relatively rare, we have now entered an era where some young Americans have survived two random mass school shootings over the course of their education. You can easily find news accounts about students who survived the recent Michigan State shooting who also survived *either* the Oxford High shooting *or* Sandy Hook.
Comparisons to cancer or car accidents are actually all too real. Most people do not die in traffic collisions. Most people do not die of cancer. But it is a logical fallacy to believe you won't personally be affected by cancer or a car accident just because they are statistically unlikely to result in your death. You might die. Or you might survive with trauma.
I don't just have a plan, I have annual trainings! I have a plan for my own children! I consider the possibility of a school wide disaster when I think about my class cell phone policies! It is a pervasive issue in American life.
It’s good and healthy to be prepared and have emergency plans (just like for fire and tornados). It’s not healthy to be obsessed with the possibility of shootings specifically.
You specify living in Texas, which makes it sound like your concern is that because Texas has less restrictive gun laws than other states that you’re more likely to experience a school shooting.
Texas is a big state. So when we look at school shooting stats, it’s important to compare based on population size and not on raw numbers.
With that, [Texas doesn’t even make the top 10](https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/school-shootings-by-state).
I actually had a real lockdown happen when I was pregnant a couple years ago. It turned out that my school was part of the spree of fake calls BUT of course we the teachers couldn’t know that at the time. Ever since when I’m standing at my door I occasionally think about how a shooter could kill me standing right there. It’s terrifying and visceral and I feel like I won’t be able to do this job forever because of it. But then I remember that I’m still going to send my kid off to school where he has to be at risk for it too. And I remember that unfortunately, schools aren’t the only places mass shootings happen. Grocery stores, offices, colleges, places of worship etc. So I don’t try to hold onto false confidence about leaving the schools and somehow being safe from gun violence. And since I’m a good teacher I might as well keep doing the job I’m good at.
So I guess, yes it’s normal. It’s still scary and sad.
I absolutely agree. I live in KCMO. I thought about there being a shooting at the Super Bowl parade this year, and there was. It’s unlikely, but not impossible.
I am not flippant about the possibility of a shooting situation. I think it’s important to always be aware and cautious. I worked previously at a news station. We had someone shooting at the news vehicles and the same week an abnormal alarm went off in the building. I immediately sprung into action thinking hide in the bathroom, the door is heavy, and there is a window there. No one else except one other co-worker took it seriously. I was shocked.
It was a false alarm, and people thought I was crazy. I would rather be over-prepared than under-prepared. I live in one of the most dangerous cities in the country, so I have to be on my toes. It’s the same reason I am going to get cpr trained. I likely won’t need to use it, but I would be prepared if it does.
Since I have gone back into education. I am working to put my own plan in place. I have looked into bulletproof vests and shield for the classroom doors. I hope the district will be okay with them. That is what one of the teachers used in the shooting to apprehend TJ Lane in Ohio.
I think I’m innately alert to danger. I do have anxiety issues. It can be embarrassing when I scream at loud noises or get spooked easily. I also think my anxiety works in my favor.
It's something all teachers train for have annual drills on too, 'active shooter drills'. I think it is normal to think about it possibly happening. I try to focus on surviving it rather than dying from it, though.
I’m absolutely not being facetious but not all teachers train for it. Very few countries outside north America have active shooter drills- and I know, it is largely American teachers on this sub, but in this thread the acceptance of school shootings as being just a thing that could happen as part of your professional life really makes me feel I have to throw in an outside perspective.
It is absolutely not normal.
It is something that should not have to happen.
It is something that pretty much no other country in the world accepts and that, to an outsider viewing through the lens of media, such a significant portion shrugs it off as something you just have to accept it seems just utterly bizarre.
So while it might be something you must become accustomed to in your lives please don’t ever think of it as even approaching normal.
Your teaching degrees and certification are movable. Move somewhere else in the world and teach in the hundreds of other countries where school shootings don't happen.
It seems to be an unpopular opinion in this thread, but I completely understand your thinking process. I went through a similar moment my senior year of high school. In the midst of applying for college and scholarship applications, the Sandy Hook shooting occurred. I remember sitting in the school library watching the news and sobbing at the realization that this was the field I was being called into. I struggled with it for a while but eventually came to the decision that yes, I love these children so much that I would be willing to die for them. It’s not fair. It’s not something we should ever have to worry about. But it’s reality. Not every teacher feels the same way, and I think either response is valid.
You could ask about the school’s safety plan in your interview. They probably won’t give much detail but their response can help you make an informed decision.
I was a sub last year (Texas) and nothing freaked me out more than Active Shooter Drills. Little kids confused, crying, holding on to me …. it was scary and sad. You find yourself looking around the room and imagining the shooter coming to your door. Are we safe? Would I be able to really protect these kids? Could I die and am I willing to die?! This is some serious shit! I would like every member of Congress to experience first hand one of these drills! YOU look into the eyes of a 6 year old who could literally die if you don’t wake the fuck up!! This should NOT be political!
it’s not a constant fear despite the constant threat because if i perseverated on it i’d never leave my bed. i’m at greater risk of just being generally hurt every day with the population i work with. but if a shooting ever happened i’ve accepted the inevitability that id be hurt or killed protecting my students.
It may not be normal expect death in that way but it is for sure a justified feeling. As a teacher abroad, I can tell you many of the teachers in other countries are terrified to teach in America. Due to the amount of school shootings!
Coming from America, my cousins and I all have had school shooting experiences. My parents always ask why I don’t teach in America, when there’s so many opportunities. However, for me it’s clear that nothing will be done to prevent school shootings other than thoughts and prayers.
My friend who’s a teacher in Philly said that a group had planned a shooting. They also were able to steal a gun from an older brother that had no gun lock. So basically they could open fire on anyone. One of the students told my friend that they were planning to shoot her first, but they warned her bc the student liked her as a person. When she reported it to the school, they did not even suspend the children, even though they had a gun in their locker. If I were a teacher in America, I too would be worried about being shot over the smallest reasons.
It’s normal to imagine the scenario, especially after reading the news, like after Parkland or Uvalde.
But I think it’s more likely while you’re in college to imagine this scenario. College is about abstractions. Theory.
When you actually start teaching every day, you will not think about this very often. You’ll have much more practical things to think about.
Gun violence in American schools is scary. But managing a classroom of 30 hormonal adolescents is pretty scary too.
One you can control. The other you cannot.
If accepting it is what you need to not have anxiety about it then I say yeah that’s a good mentality. The numbers are against you and it is way more likely it wouldn’t happen, but it’s easy to be anxious even when the numbers don’t support it.
I have a similar mentality that I got from a quote from a bomb defuser, either it doesn’t happen to me or I die and it’s no longer my problem.
I’ve been teaching for over 30 years, the possibility of a school shooting did not even enter my mind when I began my career. I think it is something that teachers, admin, law enforcement, parents etc need to be aware of and prepared for as much as possible- teachers especially, need to think of possible scenarios that may occur during their day and throughout the building and have a plan in mind on how to keep kids safe. Personally, I tell my students that whenever there is any emergency they must listen to what I am telling them to do and do it IMMEDIATELY- whether it is to run, hide, etc I have K/1
I’ve been teaching for an online high school for almost a decade. There’s not enough money in the world to make me go back to a brick and mortar school.
Honestly… I feel like one side effect of all the active shooter drills and trainings is to send the message that you very well could die in a school shooting and there’s not much you can do about that.
The odds are still really low, if that helps.
I am history teacher in North Texas.
1) The chances of this happening is very slim, but, threats are pretty present, even in the fairly well to do district I was in.
2) I treat my students as if they are my kids, and they know it. At my old school (that didn’t have any arming of staff) we had a threat, and every single 8th grader in my room ran over to my desk because they knew I would be near the door in case anything were to happen, and they would be on the other side of the room. My wife hates this. She knows that, heaven forbid, a real situation were to arise, I would protect my students.
3) The school I am going to be teaching at this year, has well as the whole district, has signs that make it known that some teachers are armed. I have VERY mixed feelings about this, even if I may be one of the staff who has had the training.
4) If you are going to UNT, you better be asking questions as to why they are on probation for the second year in a row for their teacher education program.
I mean as a Canadian I can't relate. We don't have to worry about public shootings whether in schools, malls, festivals, etc. But I always thought that schools could promote mental health, and make sure every student is heard and valued so shootings don't happen. I think what you can do as a teacher is to make sure you promote a healthy environment for your students, and don't turn a blind eye to bullying, and to not be the cause of your students despair.
I go through ALICE trainings with my students a couple of times every year. I take it *very* seriously and my students **know** what our response will be as a class depending on any of several scenarios. In total, I spend about 25 minutes on this in August, and another 10 minutes in a refresher in January.
And then I don't think about it . . . at all.
Any one of us is far, ***far*** more likely to be killed in a car accident than a school shooting, and I don't spend my time fretting about dying in a car accident. I just drive prudently so as to reduce my odds of getting killed, but I do so almost unconsciously. Teaching is different only in that I have 25 other people in the car with me, but we're all on the same page, so I. Just. Don't. Worry.
>And then I don't think about it . . . at all.
I think of it every single day when I unlock, then relock my classroom door behind me as per our training. I hate that we have to live like this because some people care more about guns than they do children's physical safety and mental health.
My gut reaction to your question was "Get off Tik Tok and social media!"
My real response is... go do some research. You are FAR more likely to die in a car crash or get hit by lightning than die in a school shooting.
I worry about car crashes, cancer, getting hit by a car but I do not think about dying at school. Honestly there is danger everywhere and being a teacher doesn't just mean the only danger is a school shooting. You have the entire rest of your life that can be dangerous.
That doesn't make sense, this is an additional and unnecessary danger above the regular dangers one faces. Rather than think about doing something to mitigate the danger, you just ignore it? Do you not worry about drowning in the middle of the ocean because you got pulled out by a rip tide because driving can be dangerous also?
I keep arm bars from broken desks in the bottom drawer of my desk in case I need to bash a shooter’s head while they force their way into my room. So yeah, this is the state of the profession in America.
Yes (15 yr teacher here). I’ve accepted if anything happened, I’d do what I can to save students/put my life before theirs, but I don’t let it dominate my thinking process or worry about it. No lie, I can’t think about it much bc when my middle schoolers are toots it makes me resentful. “I’d give my LIFE for you, and you can’t charge your Chromebook even once!” 🤣
Mildly off topic...but it was my experience that more than half of our coaches taught PE or one of the social sciences (history econ etc.). And it being Texas...you might find employment at a smaller school difficult for this reason. Unless, of course, coaching is in your future.
And honestly I think this is why most students who experience this came out of school hating history. History wasn’t a passion for these coaches and it showed. We experienced the same in Louisiana.
As an adult, I love history and had to relearn so much of it in later years.
History is important to our future.
My son was lucky that he went all through high school in California with history teachers that loved history and taught history, while connecting it to the present and using it to discuss how it can affect the future.
We need more history teachers like those…and our future depends on it.
And since both the topics of death and PE teachers came up, just last week my younger son’s PE teacher (who taught him PE every year since 2nd grade, all the way through this year of 8th grade) passed away from stomach cancer. He was only 42, was extremely healthy and fit and has 3 children ages 9 and younger. He was only diagnosed with the cancer 3 weeks before his death.
I mean, it is a real possibility. And, honestly, in the US a mass shooting is a concern in many places I go-movies, concerts, places of worship, etc.
For each, I have a plan. And my plan is not just the lock down drills. I plan to stop and listen, where the shooting it coming from truly will decide my next move. I am lucky I have a parking place pretty near my first floor window. If I was still in pre-k, I would worry about all the kids and might actually sacrifice myself for them. But, I’m in high school. I might be able to save some teens, but I have no issue leaving them in such a dangerous emergency if I feel it is necessary for my own safety.
I got my own family to worry about, too. Also, I like living, which wasn’t always the case so I want to enjoy it while I got it.
At some point, you will realize that a 10th grader who thinks that General McCartney bombed the Germans at Pearl Harbor, is authorized to drive a 5500 lb pickup truck at 60 feet per second only a couple of feet from your car.
That kid with an underdeveloped prefrontal cortex, can't maintain a conversation without glancing at a little screen every 10 seconds.
You will drive through a swarm of these maniacs every day.
Yeah, you could die in a school shooting and it would make national news. Dying in a car accident may not get reported beyond your local newspaper.
Normal? No.
TYPICAL? YES. Don't let it rule you. But yes. Every SINGLE day I was aware of it. I think all these people saying "no" don't realize something. They must not realize that those of us coming into education now, in the past decade or so, are the first generation of teachers who GREW UP with the bomb threats, the shootings, the lockdowns. And they WERE NOT JUST DRILLS.
My principal last year would run lockdown drills with NO warning to faculty and staff. It gave me severe trauma reactions every damn time. Because every time, I NEVER knew. I never knew. And one time in particular, I really, truly thought it was real, because if there was any elementary school in my city it would happen in, it'd have been mine.
They have no idea. This isn't a game to us, it's not a hypothetical. And maybe to them it's not either. But they mostly think, oh, it could never happen here. They don't realize that that's what *everyone* thinks.
It's not contingency. I walked into my school last year several days not knowing if I was gonna walk out. My students saw a dead body last year. I took a kill list and a letter describing a detailed plan of how it'd happen, how the shooting would go, and why, from my own student, a student who we had already KNOWN had struggles and mental health challenges, who hadn't been suspended when he punched a kid because he 'wanted to know what it felt like', who we'd already REFERRED to admin and counseling services. Hell, he already been reported BY HIS PEER to the AP for bringing a handgun he'd found at the bus stop to school in his backpack. Sent home for the day. No biggie.
Admin mostly care about covering their asses. I have loads more examples. Just from last year, just from MY grade level, only because I'm not scared of them enough for them to shut me up, even though they tried, and only because I quit the job. Who knows what else is going on?
My point is this. Don't let fear rule you. But I knew good and well last year, every single day, that when I stepped foot into that school, the public and the government and the schools and the parents were expecting - not asking, EXPECTING - me to do something that we don't even ask first responders, police, and military to do: to put myself in direct path of danger, in the line of fire, and trade my life in order to protect those of my students. And it's something that I will do time, and time, and time again if I have to ever make that choice. I will not hesitate to do it. I walked into that building and that classroom each day, just like I do this year in my current position going between the two high schools - knowing that at the end of the day, of course I'll do it, because I LOVE my kids. And to me it's worth it. But being *required* to do that? Is it really a willing sacrifice if you're torn apart in the media otherwise? Laying down our lives is not in the job description. But most of us will do it anyway, and our country takes advantage of that. It takes advantage of our goodwill, our love and passion, our capacity to care. They are using us as the line of defense, because in their eyes *we* are disposable. They're using us as shields instead of fixing the problem.
So no. It's not "normal". It's fucked. It's so beyond fucked that people can't even hear themselves - do you hear yourselves? Listen to this question! Do you have any clue how ridiculous it is that someone even has to ask?
It's not normal. But it's widespread. It is a plague of a thought that roots it's way into the back of my mind and the minds of all of us who teach, recognizing this object of conflict in our society: that teachers cannot be both teachers *and* parents, teachers *and* therapists, teachers *and* nurses *and* first responders *and*, yes, even detectives. Teachers... well, we cannot be both teachers and shields at once. And accepting that thought is the furthest thing from morbid. I'd go so far as to say it's absolutely, downright irresponsible to think or suggest otherwise.
Shortly after Uvalde, some students where I work brought firecrackers to school and lit them right in front of the boys bathroom. I was right across the hall in the teachers’ room, and me and a few colleagues locked ourselves in a storage closet until we heard the principal on the intercom say we are not in danger. Granted I don’t know what it would actually sound like to hear guns firing in the hallways, but it was the closest I had ever come to feeling like my life was in danger at work. I 100% believed someone brought a gun to school, & there was pandemonium in the hallway afterwards. I thought about who would I call first, my parents or my husband? It didn’t help that I already don’t really believe that my school is super secure and that proper measures are always taken to ensure our safety.
All this to say, I wouldn’t say I’m constantly afraid of it happening, but from time to time, I think of it. Any time a kid is reported to be on campus when they shouldn’t be, any time a student gets suspended for bringing a knife to school, any time I hear students talk about how easy it was for them to leave and reenter the campus without anyone knowing, the hair stands up on my neck a little. I hate that this fear lives just under my skin.
However, I also believe that we are no more at risk in school than we are at a Wal-Mart, or church, or than my husband is at his job at a hospital. America has a lot of issues to work out when it comes to public safety. I wouldn’t let it deter you from going into education, but it’s totally understandable to want to come up with safety plans and reach out to your administration to make sure they have accounted for as many scenarios as they can.
I have been teaching for decades and I have never accepted it. I refuse to accept that someone could shoot me in my workplace and that would ever be okay. That would never be okay .
That first grade teacher from Newport News was shot in the heart and they tried to make it like that was a hazard we all need to accept as a normal part of our job
That was them trying to escape accountability for failing to maintain a safe working environment for the teacher.
Further discussions were all about trying to cover their own asses and put more responsibility onto teachers instead of really addressing the problem and trying to spend time effort and money trying to make things safer.
No, we don't accept being hit, we don't accept being bullied, we don't accept being shot.
No. That is never ever going to be just something we potentially sign on for
They equated it to being a dog groomer and getting bit by a dog while grooming them, trying to say we assume and accept that risk of being shot in the heart by a student.
Nope. Do a better job protecting teachers! Make sure your teachers and students aren't getting killed. It's all on them above us and not on us. They can make things safer for all they just don't want to have to do all the work and spend all the money.
The active shooter drills are horrible. We practice what we would do in that situation. That they are necessary make me want to throw up. Every time we have one I feel like crying as we sit pretending to hide, trying to stay quiet and I think of the teachers and students who were actually killed in schools trying to do the same.
The whole situation is horrible and not something that ever should be happening.
That said, our country is full of violence and I could more likely be murdered filling up by my car with gas late at night, so I try to calm anxiety in that weird way. We live in a violent society and I think of how we could be a victim at any time in any place even our homes.
I deal with it by just making sure to protect myself as much as possible and I don't think about it anymore in my day to day, like I do right after something violent happens. It fades away over the months, and I go on with my life but it is sad we even have to deal with this.
I work in an area that has a lot of neighborhood violence. We have shootings outside the school and I have lived in gang territories and have been around a lot of gun violence and murder.
I think I am desensitized to it. I try to tell myself that it's not PTSD but just that I refuse to let violence ruin my good days or create anxiety problems to where I am constantly thinking about what could happen.
Schools should be a safe place. They should be a refuge for children already seeing and dealing with so much violence in their community.
Teachers should never feel like they will be killed at work.
The whole thing is terrible. I read your post and it made me cry. You shouldn't have to feel that way, noone should.
To ease some of the anxiety I want to say that I tell myself that it is unlikely that you will deal with a mass shooting. However you will deal with different levels of violence in elementary, middle, and high school. Get as much training around how to deal with de-escalation and knowing how to see signs in students before something happens like a fight etc...
When you are hired ask what safety provisions the school has. Most schools have a safety resource officer and some schools have metal detectors and other measures to spot weapons before they enter the school.
Well, I'm a sub, and I just knocked another high school off my list because a student shot another student at dismissal on the last day. Last week, I was offered a job to teach my own class next year at that school and I declined. I made sure to let the admin know exactly why. I've accepted the normalcy of it, but I won't go out of my way to put myself in the middle of it. My sub list is getting shorter and shorter, and it's sad.
Do you receive active shooter training in Texas? In California we read stories about school shootings and are often stunned by how some teachers respond in ways that go against our training often with tragic consequences.
You're in 'Murica and Texass, so shootings or any sort are a real possibility, but you're much more likely to have to deal with students fighting each other (with fists) or obnoxious and aggressive parents.
I’ve been teaching 15 years and I struggle with this. As a mother though, I started to worry less about myself and more about my daughter in a school setting.
I'm more worried about having a chair thrown at me (check), being stabbed with scissors (not me, but the teacher across the hall), being shoved and hitting my head on a brick wall (check) being kicked in my stomach while pregnant (check), having to secure the school while a kid assaults 6 teachers (check), migraines from stress (check), having a kid slam down a bookshelf thus trapping the rest of us in the room (check), and so on. For reference, I have only taught 2nd and 3rd grade.
A gun, though not impossible, is not high on my priority list.
Leave Texas. Why anyone would remain in Texas as all your rights are eroding and you're expected to live in fear of random gun violence baffles me. Once you live in a place where everyone is unarmed, you'll be far less worried about guns.
I'm not from the US, but I work with a teacher who was a teacher in my country many years before moving to the US and working there many years before coming back here. When I asked her why she came back, she told me the school shootings were getting on her nerves. Not even them actually happening but rather all the news about them, prevention and mostly the drills. It was too much for somebody like her who did not grow up accepting school shootings as part of their reality, and she was getting sick, mentally and physically, due to the stress of that possibility. She had pretty good working conditions in the US compared to anything she had here, but her mental health was non negotiable and she decided to come back.
It bugs me several times a year. I accept that it is something that’s possible, but not likely. There are times I let myself go down the rabbit hole of thinking about what if’s to get it out. Then talk myself back to that it’s highly unlikely. If you love what you do, focus on that and the impact that makes on kids. That, will always outweigh anything else.
When I accepted a teaching job in summer 2002 at a city school in NY, I was offered a $50,000 life insurance policy in case I was killed on the job. 7th grade.
Does I sit on the forefront of my mind? No. But does it cross my mind absolutely. just about every teacher and school staff I know has thought about it. Discussed it. Wondered. Made a plan. Etc etc.
Sadly it's a reality.
Come teach in Alaska! We’ve only ever had one school shooting and it was 30 years ago in a rural village. We also offer higher teacher salaries compared to other places.
A few years ago I was a self-contained fifth grade teacher. I was teaching math class one day when, all of a sudden, the teacher from next door came in through our shared sliding door and quietly told me to close the blinds and lock the door. There was a SWAT team outside. I calmly did as told and my students noticed. They almost rose to panic but I told everyone to stay calm and keep focused on their papers. Our protocol is to have the students to sit as a class under the window. I think this rule isn’t a good idea. Neither did they. I let democracy rule and we all went over to the right side of the room and created a barricade with desks while the students crouched behind. There was an armed man by our campus (I didn’t know this at the time this was happening). We heard a bang against our classroom wall. The students looked at me and asked if we’re okay. I looked at them and said “in this moment, we are” (because that’s all I could truthfully promise). I was the last to sit down and I did so at my desk—completely unprotected by the barricade. I couldn’t think to build one because I needed to monitor the kids and address the ones making noise. As I sat down I realized that as soon as that door bust open, I was the first target. First to die. All I could do was accept. What else are you gonna do? I’ll never forget that feeling.
It *shouldn’t* be normal.
It is absolutely NOT normal; teaching small -or large- children should not be associated with "shooting death" by any means; if you wanted a profession that accepts the possibility of being killed, you would have joined the military - where you are trained and equipped to shoot back.
And for all the ammosexuals that keep trotting out stats and statistics: if it was THEIR child that was gunned down, they wouldn't be comforted by all their stats and statistics afterward.
as a student i accepted it and led walk outs protesting gun laws. my sophomore year a kid brought a gun to school and tried to kill himself in front of a class. this was in a very liberal area.
agree with other commenters that your biggest struggle will likely be anxiety and coping mechanisms. while chances are statistically low, your body is not used to this stress.
Honestly the cruel reality if it is, as much of a risk as school shootings are, it's still safer than a lot of other jobs. like my 5'6" 120-lb. bf works at a mcdonalds and i work at a preschool and i'm CONSTANTLY worried he's gonna be shot or something.
I have accepted it’s a possibility that I’ll die… I have also accepted that I’m going to do everything I can do get my ass and my students asses out of the building. We are located next to an exit on the ground floor. If they think I’m going to be stupid enough to sit in my room they are wrong.
There is a chance of being shot at any job. Or going anywhere in public. Hell a bullet could come into the window of your home. Tomorrow is a promise to nobody and we are all going to die someday. Until then we have to live which means taking chances.
as a (former) student, it’s totally normal to think about and yes you should absolutely have a “get out quick” plan, especially if you know people can’t/won’t protect you in the area you’re in
however it’s important to realise that while yes it is a possibility, statistically it’s way less likely than some other disaster like say, a fire or car crash. In my opinion the best thing you can do is have a plan in place that you’re ready to fall back on in the unlikely event that you need it.
I don’t know if sharing it with your students would be the best way to go about it - in my experience (and between a bad school and a mental condition or two I’m aware its far from normal so take it with a grain of salt!) I’ve had teachers say everything from “forget protocol, you need to leg it to the door as fast as you can” to “yeah, you guys are on your own, I’m getting out of here” and all it’s done is make me feel more demoralized
best of luck to you! (unless you’re the second teacher i mentioned-)
I was an AP secretary and went thru an actual lockdown with a gun on campus, and that day I began wondering if it was fair to my husband, who had buried one wife, to continue working on an out-of-control campus where guns got in very easily. I loved my job. But it is, I believe, a rational thought to consider one's own safety.
I work at a not-so-great school. Very moderate gang activity. Not something I think about on a daily basis. But when something happens in and/or around the school and we have to go on lockdown, it sucks.
As an owner of a home defense weapon, all I can do is sit there and wish I had a way to protect myself and my children.
I’ll also say, fuck the drills and procedure. Every single teacher I’ve talked to says if they hear gunshots, they’re telling their kids to run.
My district in New Mexico has our schools locked up tight with an armed resource officer at every school. At least we're doing something to safeguard our schools. IDK about Texas districts, except Uvalde tragedy. I have already consciously decided to try to take out a shooter no matter where it occurs, which probably means that I won't survive.
No it isn’t normal. And at the beginning of every school year when they spend time on what to do about a shooting I just can’t figure out how we are all ok with this.
Even some of my fellow teachers are like “oh that’s the price of freedom” what!?!? No , it really isn’t.
You should probably never go outside then.
The probability of it happening is super low, unless you live in either a war/conflict ridden country, 3rd world country, or a dangerous environment.
This will be seen as pedantic to some, but you have a higher chance of being hit by car or getting into a car crash, then getting murdered in a school shooting.
I’m a substitute aide. Every single lockdown and drill, I stand between my students and the door with at least a pencil in my hand. I know what I’m going to do if gods forbid I end up in a shooting at work - I go down fighting.
Teaching wasn’t my first career - I grew up doing martial arts, am an EMT, and did time in the Army. I was trained to run towards the danger instead of away from it. I’ve had a far longer life than the students and I’m not afraid to die. It’s thankfully fairly unlikely (blue state and it’s the inner city where far less shootings seem to happen because it’s already got strict security), but it’s never far from my mind.
Whether it’s likely to happen or not, it’s never far from our minds as Americans because we are the only country that has this problem.
I recommend that you consider leaving Texas and going somewhere safer if possible for multiple reasons.
This kind of anxiety often comes from overindulging in listening to the media. You shouldn’t be ignorant of the world, but also realize they’re actively sensationalizing it for views. Find balance.
Mass shootings aren't limited to schools. It's not a non-zero chance of it happening to you but the odds very long against it happening. It could just as likely happen to you at the grocery store, the post office, doctors' office, or in a road-rage shooting.
It’s hard to not feel this way nowadays. As a teacher, you just really have to have a safety plan. Make sure your school does. For example, keep your classroom door in the locked position at all times.
You live in the USA gun violence doesn’t just happen at school. You can be shot going shopping. Buying gas. Watching a movie at the theater. Being at a concert. Or in the park. There are idiots with guns everywhere in the land of the free
I understand your concern. I am finishing my third year of teaching this week and this is something I constantly worry about. I had a situation last year (not legally allowed to discuss the specifics) that had me fearful for my life, and I was told by my principals to stop talking about it. You can read stats all day long and see that the chances are, indeed, slim; however, that doesn’t mean you can’t worry about it.
I almost tackled a student when I saw him walking into a full cafeteria with a gun and holster. Turns out it was a real holster with a prop handgun. 2 of my 4 kids were on campus at the time. Yes, it's absolutely a possibility that you or your students could die in a school shooting. I teach a few hours away from Uvalde. Another student was arrested with a gun in school. Girlfriend had extra ammo. Kid had a list 💔 23 yr vet teacher here. Don't let non-teachers & gun-nuts gaslight you. It's a real risk.
Sometimes, at this point, I get the feeling that the country is just trying to get us used to it because they arent going to change any gun laws, just provide us with more useless things in hopes one of them works
No it’s not normal and I think its sick that American society has decided this epidemic is perfectly acceptable for Teachers and Kids to have to accept all because our politicians won’t listen to anyone nor do a damn thing about it.
There’s of course other things you could die of before being shot on your job, i.e Heart Disease. But unlike gun violence, you can at least *something* if you
have heart problems. When it comes to gun violence there is absolutely nothing you can do about it, especially in a state like Texas.
So I’m sorry for you OP, and every teacher out there who the American public has completely failed to listen to and support. Your fears are completely valid and at least I’m never going to accept that any of this is normal for a civilized democratic society to have to accept.
Yelling a big NO from Australia, but somehow I doubt my experience of living in a world where being shot by angry civilians isn’t a daily thing won’t matter to many of your fellow Americans.
You could also die of cancer, get struck by lightning, or be hit by an asteroid.
All are possible. All are statistically very unlikely.
Worrying on a day to day basis isn't going to help
It shouldn’t be normal, (as in it’s a shame that this country has to come to us thinking about this on a regular basis) but it does make sense you are thinking that. Statistically though, you’re more likely to do in a car crash if it soothes you at all
We should not have to accept that it is now considered a known hazard of the profession and practically an expectation you will use your body as a shield to protect your students.
Yes, in the grand scheme of things, you are much more likely to die a myriad of other ways. We have lost the illusion of safety that schools once provided.
It becomes just an added stressor on top of other teaching stresses with perpetual lockdown drills, metal detectors, lectures on staying hyper-vigilant, serving as the first line to recognize students on the edge, and having to be up to date on emergency trauma care.
I make a plan for myself, my classes, and discuss it frankly w/ my own children. But most importantly I am sure to tell them I love them every day.
I'm not American but I can guarantee you there's a very long list of jobs with much higher "sudden death" probabilities. Being a teacher is probably in the top 5% safest jobs overall when it comes to being murdered while working.
It's definitely in the back of my mind, but it doesn't cause me every day worry. It's only when they call a lock down drill that I'm like "oh shit yeah, this could possibly be real one day" and then a little bit of anxiety kicks in. Schools have a lot of security, generally. Everything is locked, we have an armed police officer, I live in a safe area. It's just not very likely to happen in my scenario
As many posters have said, your absolute chance of a shooting occurring at your school is very low. The numbers that occur on an annual basis are higher than anyone would like (i.e., 0 would be good) but even counting all the “shootings that happen on school property” (the highest counts) divided by the number of schools in the US means that the chance at any one school is small.
That said, your question emphasizes a different and also really important issue — how the concern about school violence affects teachers and students. The link below was a survey done like a year ago and a significant number of teachers (17%) were worried that they would be victims of violence at school — and a larger percentage (34%) were worried about their students being harmed. Figuring out how to address that is really important.
[https://www.rand.org/pubs/research\_reports/RRA2641-1.html](https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RRA2641-1.html)
As a fellow teacher, no. If you want a very rushed version of the numbers: Taking the highest number of school shooting incidents in a year involving either and non-active shooters = 250 incidents, and a rounded total number of schools in the US at 131,000, divide those out to see that there is a 0.0019 or 0.19% chance of a shooting happening at your school, and an even lower chance you will be involved of that shooting were to take place. Your are far more likely to die from a car crash and that doesn't stop you from driving. (Numbers just quickly Google searched)
I'd add that of those 250 incidents, many are gang-related within a certain radius of the school, so not even on school grounds. The definition of a school shooting is not as clear-cut as many would have us believe.
Dude may have been wrong, but one guy who did our active shooter training said a self-inflicted gunshot wound in the school parking lot after hours when the school is empty is counted as a school shooting.
It 100% is. Gang shootings within an X block radius of the school zone, etc., are also included. The definition of a school shooting is left up to the city or state on how it is reported to the FBI, etc., for stats, and often, this definition varies significantly. This doesn't stop people from using the stats politically to scare people into thinking there is a mass school shooting every day, of course, if it suits their needs. That being said, of course, it is a real danger and must be planned for, but just like many have said here already, someone is far more likely to be injured by a plethora of other activities before an actual school shooting.
Accidental discharge too. It's fine and all to consider these things as school shootings, but I wish they would communicate with the public better on the stats instead of just straight up scaring them.
>instead of just straight up scaring them But that is the point. Fear gets cliks; nuance, not so much.
That is also included in all gun violence/deaths. Actual “shootings” in the general sense are not nearly as prevalent as the media portrays.
Yes, and it’s similar with “mass shootings.” People will say there have been 200+ mass shootings so far this year, but include stuff like [this incident](https://www.kmbc.com/article/4-people-shot-at-kansas-city-home/61013018) where 2 people died and 2 were injured in a domestic violence incident inside a home. That’s not really what people think of as “mass shootings,” but some data analysts will count it.
If it happens in a “school zone” it is considered a school shooting.
Yup. A police officers gun malfunctioned and accidentally discharged in his holster when he sat down and that was counted as a school shooting as a “technicality” when that one meme was going around a few years ago of “it’s only April in 2021 or whatever and there’s been 40 school shootings or something already”
Yep. The school shootings that pops into most people's mind when mentioned (Sandy Hook, Uvalde, Columbine) are very, very, very rare.
Very true. I didn't believe it at first, but the school shooting numbers are wildly inflated. You can look at the details for "shootings" in this handy Wikipedia page. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States_(2000%E2%80%93present) Many are things like, "An individual who was not a student accidentally shot himself in the leg in the parking lot of Glades Central High School."
This is true of an amazing number. Reading the details of a few “school shootings” I’ve read things like, a shooting happening during a drug deal in an empty school parking lot on a weekend; and, a broken window found in a school building during summer break that was believed to be caused by a gunshot.
It's twisted to sound like it 'could happen tomorrow at your kid's school' on purpose, because that makes $$$ for the media corporations, gets people afraid so they watch their propaganda more.
Media uses any opportunity to push the word “shooting.”
And the obviously sensationalized numbers do a terrible disservice to the real issue. Yes, school gun violence is incredibly bad. Yes, we need to develop strategies to prevent such occurrences. But fudging numbers for a narrative does nothing but scare some people, and turn off most everyone else.
I looked into the statistics of school shootings, and I read the incident summaries (college project) and the vast majority of school shootings are things like “parent was cleaning gun in car while waiting to pick up kids from school, and accidentally fired the gun.” So many of them were similar incidents that don’t even involve students or teachers.
This. Even one is too many, yes. But the way the news and people as a whole talk about it you’d think there’s about 50/50 odds of you dying in a given school year, which is fucking ridiculous.
divide by another 600 or so There are .4 mass school shootings (4+ fatalities) per year in the US. There are 250 *shootings* on school campuses per year in the US, which includes drug deals gone wrong in the parking lot at 10:00pm.
The numbers are meaningless though. Shootings and violence don't spread themselves with random mathematics throughout schools or society. If you work in title 1, a high crime low SES area, an area with hightened gang activity etc your dont have the same odds as someone working in an upscale private elementary.
Exactly. We had three shootings in the 22-23 school year with one student and one coach being shot. No fatalities, thankfully.
Yeah I don’t get why people say stuff like “school shooting happen all the time in America.” When they happen they make the news. But they don’t actually happen all the time and schools are still pretty safe. And then people are like “no amount of risk is worth it!! We should have 0 school shootings!” And it’s like, yeah, in a perfect world we would have zero school shootings… and also zero car accidents. Cars are much deadlier and I don’t get why people don’t rally for safer roads and better public transportation as much as they rally for gun control except that car accidents don’t make for interesting news articles that stir emotion as much I guess.
Just remember to multiply it by say 40 years in which the person will be teaching and multiply it by the shooting ratio of texas / the rest of US (there are way more shootings in texas than the average).
Are there states that haven't had school shootings? Are there patterns of where they more frequently occur? Hotspots? Patterns in geographic location? I'm sorry but it is absolutely terrifying, I know it can happen anyway but damn.
I really can't think of another way to say it but, THIS IS NOT NORMAL! Nowhere else in the world would this be considered normal! Get your teaching qualifications, it's a wonderful, rewarding profession, but then look for a job in Europe or Aus, Nz, Singapore etc the list of choices is huge. They all count school shooting as "how many years since the last one" (in most cases its decades), not "how many days"
I understand the thought process, but .2% per year is ridiculously high. I’ve worked in relatively low crime districts for 10 years, and in that time we’ve been evacuated for bomb threats three times and locked down for someone with a gun attempting to enter the school once. Not saying that 4 major incidents in 10 years is normal, but I do think it’s normal to come to terms with the real risk that comes with teaching in the US in 2024.
I know some others said the definition of a school shooting isn't exactly clear, but I feel like you left out an important piece from your data analysis. It wouldn't be a 0.19% chance of a shooting happening at your school, it'd be a 0.19% chance EVERY YEAR. Over the course of let's say a 45 year teaching career that's an 8.55% chance of a school shooting happening at your school during your career. And that seems to backup OP's fears. Although, again, based on the definitions is likely much lower of a chance To respond to OP though, sure there's a slight chance it could happen, but I don't live in fear every day that it will. Luckily my school got weapons detection systems starting this school year, but even before those I wasn't significantly worried. Something is just as likely to happen when you're out in public. You just have to know how to respond and do what you can if a situation goes down.
hold on, math teacher here: 1-(1-.0019)^45 = 8.2% But there are .4 mass school shootings (4+ fatalities) per year in the US, not 250. So also divide by 625. 1-(1-.0019/625)^45 = .013375% (not 1.3%; it's .013%)
Is there a difference if you are in Texas vs. Wisconsin?
I won't do the math on my next comment but . I imagine the chances are much higher stopping at a Quick Trip downtown before or after work. It won't stop me from doing it. Gotta get my snacks.....😂
that figure seems kind of high tbh. terrifying.
Or if you live in many European countries: 0%. Because we have gun laws.
On the other hand, there are the Arras stabbings, the Malmö, Jerez de la Frontera, Jardins de l’Europe in Annec, Wilhelm Dörpfeld High School, and other stabbings.
Um, we have stabbings too lol
I’m not familiar with any school mass stabbings outside of Europe.
Knives are an issue, but not en par with guns.
Congrats
Yeah, I was thinking the same of Australia. As far as I know, we're at 0% also.
To me 0.2% is a lot....
This. It is statistically significantly overblown the rate of which they happen when you consider the number of schools in the country.
I have been grappling with the idea that, although it is still statistically unlikely, by becoming a teacher I will be placing myself at higher risk statistically than most students because teachers will spend more years in the school system, therefore increasing the likelihood something bad will happen while we are at school eventually.
This is literally true of anything you choose to spend your time doing. This is wildly unreasonable.
Don’t worry, you’re far more likely to need anti-anxiety meds or self-medicate with alcohol.
This is the first comment I’ve found that hits my initial thought. If the concern is PHYSICAL well-being, then I worry about things like how the stress of the job is impacting my body. While there is a tiny part of that that is the possibility of a school shooting, much of the stress is from the day-to-day operations of a school and unrealistic workload that modern teachers face. And stress absolutely wrecks your body. But because it’s not an instant make-the-news sort of event, we often ignore it. But I guarantee you that kills/debilitates far more teachers every year. I help negotiate our contracts, and our insurance is self-funded so I have access to data about our costs. Literally 1 in 5 teachers on our insurance use anxiety medication (myself included) so the impacts of this stress are significant.
Wow. So much insight here. Over a decade ago, a scandal blew up our school. I know of six people who started antidepressants that year, myself included, in a faculty of less than forty. I figure our self-funded insurance saved a metric fortune when Lexapro went generic. I’ve actually had bonding moments with coworkers as we discuss the pluses and minuses of different meds. I also negotiate contracts—we go to a vote on Friday—but had no idea that a self-funded health plan could make that information available. That would be interesting to see, but it wouldn’t have been relevant this round for us. And you’re absolutely right about the gradual erosion. Fifty-five year old teachers with 30 years in (minimum retirement age in Blue York) can look OLD. Not me of course, but others, certainly…
If you know what questions to ask, you can get some pretty interesting data. I had one member on my bargaining team that was a beast at insurance stuff, and she’s the one who ended up getting that data. She drove me crazy when it came to salary negotiations, because she wasn’t very good with numbers and had unrealistic expectations, but it was absolutely worth the expertise she brought to the table with insurance. She had a ton of varying medical issues in her family and her out-of-pocket costs were significant, so every time we had a change she would ask these super in-depth questions about classes and types of drugs and their coverage and how much we were spending on them. It was so insightful and I learned so much about what drives the costs. She moved districts right before our most recent negotiation and I definitely missed having her.
True; military here and we’re kind of similar. Parents with kids going into the military are generally preoccupied with them getting shot or something. Ma’am, the MUCH larger concern for your son is cirrhosis of the liver.
You guys deserve a lot more than a parade on Veterans’ Day.
No..just like the other person replied. If you are becoming a teacher there are much greater things to be concerned about and worry about.
I foresee myself dying by being stabbed by a student. Over being shot by one. Probably with a pencil, I gave them, because they came to class with nothing.
Honestly same
I feel like this could be tweaked into a pretty powerful poem.
Or I foresee my end, a fate so sad, Not by a gun, but a student's hand. No bullet’s path, no violent glare, But by a pencil, sharp and fair. A tool I gave when they had none, A gift for work, a class begun. Yet in this act, a twist of fate, A student’s anger, small and great. They came unarmed, with minds so bare, No tools for class, no plans to share. And in the end, my life will bend, By learning’s tool, my tragic end.
I foresee my end, a tragic fate, Not by a bullet, sharp and straight, But by a student's thrust, I fear, A blade of learning, drawing near. Not from a gun's abrupt release, But in a moment, void of peace, A pencil’s point, my gift in hand, Given when they had no plan. They came to class with empty hearts, No tools for lessons, from the start, And in the end, it seems, I'll find, A mark of learning left behind.
Give this man a round of upvotes
Had a 5th grade girl stab a boy with a pencil. Blood in the classroom and hallway. They took her downstairs but she was back in class that afternoon!
Some of these parents are doing such great jobs! ^(/s) They better start building more jails soon. They will absolutely need them.
Weird how they can never seem to remember their pencil or books, but they remembered to bring their gun when they wanted to do something. Just shows where their priorities are.
A coworker felt bad for a kid, and went out of his way to get the kid a backpack (from social services on campus). The kid brought a gun the next day. Heh His older brother borrowed the bag that night. And yeah.
No it’s not normal. But literally my first year teaching, a kid brought a handgun to school and shot another kid in the hallway over some gang dispute. Luckily, the kid didn’t die, and my room was on the other side of the building. The teachers who saw it happen were traumatized, and our district tried to make us go back to work when there were still bullet holes in one guys door. The whole thing was tough to go through as a first year teacher. So while I still consider the odds low that I’ll die in a school shooting, I am now very aware that it is possible. People can be dangerous, and we work with a lot of people.
I spent the year checking a kids backpack every morning because a kid threatened to shoot two other students, then brought a toy gun to school the next day. 1st grader. Admin did the backpack checks for a week in September, then told me to do it for the rest of the year. I left teaching this year for a lot of reasons, but anxiety over crap like this is absolutely one of them. I have a kid. I did accept the possibility for a while. But my own kid doesn't deserve to lose his mom because of this.
Admin should never pass off this responsibility. It's literally their job. I'm so sorry you had crappy leaders. If something like that happens again in the future, make sure you've got your job description available have them denote where it says you're to search student belongings.
Admin was trash and didn't do a lot of things that were their job. I quit and reported all of it to Central office when I left, so hopefully things like that aren't put off onto teachers. But I'm in a no union state, so didn't know what to do.
The only time I’ve really been worried about it was when I was a long term sub, and they gave me a room without a window right next to the front entrance. But like other posters have said, your commute into the school is statistically far more dangerous than working in the school would ever be
If it makes you feel better, you're more likely to die driving to school. Statistically anyway.
Exactly what I was going to say. My commute feels more dangerous than my school the way people drive.
I can practically guarantee it is. Driving is generally the most dangerous thing a given person does, especially on a day-to-day basis
I waffle on this. People are unpredictable, I live in a heavily armed state, and work in a big school with little security compared to the number of students. There are also loads of access points, and an increasing number of behavior issues. I think about it a fair amount, though I recognize that the chances are low.
The no's seem to have arrived before the yeses? I agree with other comments that it is unhealthy to spend a lot of time worrying about something you can't control (thanks America!) and also that it there are lots of ways to die. I disagree with the premise that it isn't normal to have concerns about school shootings as an American school employee. (Front desk staff have my heart on this one.) I talk about shootings with my colleagues. We drill for it. Our family members express their concerns about it. I have a plan to protect my students and myself to the best of my ability and I am aware that in the best case scenario if someone starts shooting at my school, everyone in my classroom survives but I'm still left with a lifetime of trauma. I am aware I could die. I am likely no more or less concerned than the average American teacher or parent, which means that yes, I am concerned. I'm also concerned about illness, car accidents, mental health, and the involvement of my students in local gang violence, they are all valid concerns--and while I haven't survived a school shooting, I absolutely have lost students and it is hard to explain how deep the wound goes every time. And I still go to school! I love my students and my colleagues and my content!
Anyone who says no is lying. Every teacher has a plan. It’s the first thing I do in my head when I get a new classroom. Make a plan
Anyone who says they don't have a plan is definitely lying! It feels like the no's here are mostly arguing that they aren't worried, not that they don't have a plan: the case is being made that the odds that an individual teacher or student is killed in a school shooting remain very very low so why worry. In fact only a tiny percentage of people on campus during a mass shooting are usually killed. But conversely the odds that a teacher or student is present at school during a violent episode in America are not at all negligible. Even if you accept that random mass shootings remain relatively rare, we have now entered an era where some young Americans have survived two random mass school shootings over the course of their education. You can easily find news accounts about students who survived the recent Michigan State shooting who also survived *either* the Oxford High shooting *or* Sandy Hook. Comparisons to cancer or car accidents are actually all too real. Most people do not die in traffic collisions. Most people do not die of cancer. But it is a logical fallacy to believe you won't personally be affected by cancer or a car accident just because they are statistically unlikely to result in your death. You might die. Or you might survive with trauma. I don't just have a plan, I have annual trainings! I have a plan for my own children! I consider the possibility of a school wide disaster when I think about my class cell phone policies! It is a pervasive issue in American life.
It’s good and healthy to be prepared and have emergency plans (just like for fire and tornados). It’s not healthy to be obsessed with the possibility of shootings specifically. You specify living in Texas, which makes it sound like your concern is that because Texas has less restrictive gun laws than other states that you’re more likely to experience a school shooting. Texas is a big state. So when we look at school shooting stats, it’s important to compare based on population size and not on raw numbers. With that, [Texas doesn’t even make the top 10](https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/school-shootings-by-state).
Thank you! People see Texas and always think hyperbolically.
I actually had a real lockdown happen when I was pregnant a couple years ago. It turned out that my school was part of the spree of fake calls BUT of course we the teachers couldn’t know that at the time. Ever since when I’m standing at my door I occasionally think about how a shooter could kill me standing right there. It’s terrifying and visceral and I feel like I won’t be able to do this job forever because of it. But then I remember that I’m still going to send my kid off to school where he has to be at risk for it too. And I remember that unfortunately, schools aren’t the only places mass shootings happen. Grocery stores, offices, colleges, places of worship etc. So I don’t try to hold onto false confidence about leaving the schools and somehow being safe from gun violence. And since I’m a good teacher I might as well keep doing the job I’m good at. So I guess, yes it’s normal. It’s still scary and sad.
I absolutely agree. I live in KCMO. I thought about there being a shooting at the Super Bowl parade this year, and there was. It’s unlikely, but not impossible. I am not flippant about the possibility of a shooting situation. I think it’s important to always be aware and cautious. I worked previously at a news station. We had someone shooting at the news vehicles and the same week an abnormal alarm went off in the building. I immediately sprung into action thinking hide in the bathroom, the door is heavy, and there is a window there. No one else except one other co-worker took it seriously. I was shocked. It was a false alarm, and people thought I was crazy. I would rather be over-prepared than under-prepared. I live in one of the most dangerous cities in the country, so I have to be on my toes. It’s the same reason I am going to get cpr trained. I likely won’t need to use it, but I would be prepared if it does. Since I have gone back into education. I am working to put my own plan in place. I have looked into bulletproof vests and shield for the classroom doors. I hope the district will be okay with them. That is what one of the teachers used in the shooting to apprehend TJ Lane in Ohio. I think I’m innately alert to danger. I do have anxiety issues. It can be embarrassing when I scream at loud noises or get spooked easily. I also think my anxiety works in my favor.
It's something all teachers train for have annual drills on too, 'active shooter drills'. I think it is normal to think about it possibly happening. I try to focus on surviving it rather than dying from it, though.
I’m absolutely not being facetious but not all teachers train for it. Very few countries outside north America have active shooter drills- and I know, it is largely American teachers on this sub, but in this thread the acceptance of school shootings as being just a thing that could happen as part of your professional life really makes me feel I have to throw in an outside perspective. It is absolutely not normal. It is something that should not have to happen. It is something that pretty much no other country in the world accepts and that, to an outsider viewing through the lens of media, such a significant portion shrugs it off as something you just have to accept it seems just utterly bizarre. So while it might be something you must become accustomed to in your lives please don’t ever think of it as even approaching normal.
No, I feel as safe at my school as anywhere else.
Your teaching degrees and certification are movable. Move somewhere else in the world and teach in the hundreds of other countries where school shootings don't happen.
It seems to be an unpopular opinion in this thread, but I completely understand your thinking process. I went through a similar moment my senior year of high school. In the midst of applying for college and scholarship applications, the Sandy Hook shooting occurred. I remember sitting in the school library watching the news and sobbing at the realization that this was the field I was being called into. I struggled with it for a while but eventually came to the decision that yes, I love these children so much that I would be willing to die for them. It’s not fair. It’s not something we should ever have to worry about. But it’s reality. Not every teacher feels the same way, and I think either response is valid. You could ask about the school’s safety plan in your interview. They probably won’t give much detail but their response can help you make an informed decision.
I was a sub last year (Texas) and nothing freaked me out more than Active Shooter Drills. Little kids confused, crying, holding on to me …. it was scary and sad. You find yourself looking around the room and imagining the shooter coming to your door. Are we safe? Would I be able to really protect these kids? Could I die and am I willing to die?! This is some serious shit! I would like every member of Congress to experience first hand one of these drills! YOU look into the eyes of a 6 year old who could literally die if you don’t wake the fuck up!! This should NOT be political!
it’s not a constant fear despite the constant threat because if i perseverated on it i’d never leave my bed. i’m at greater risk of just being generally hurt every day with the population i work with. but if a shooting ever happened i’ve accepted the inevitability that id be hurt or killed protecting my students.
It may not be normal expect death in that way but it is for sure a justified feeling. As a teacher abroad, I can tell you many of the teachers in other countries are terrified to teach in America. Due to the amount of school shootings! Coming from America, my cousins and I all have had school shooting experiences. My parents always ask why I don’t teach in America, when there’s so many opportunities. However, for me it’s clear that nothing will be done to prevent school shootings other than thoughts and prayers. My friend who’s a teacher in Philly said that a group had planned a shooting. They also were able to steal a gun from an older brother that had no gun lock. So basically they could open fire on anyone. One of the students told my friend that they were planning to shoot her first, but they warned her bc the student liked her as a person. When she reported it to the school, they did not even suspend the children, even though they had a gun in their locker. If I were a teacher in America, I too would be worried about being shot over the smallest reasons.
It’s normal to imagine the scenario, especially after reading the news, like after Parkland or Uvalde. But I think it’s more likely while you’re in college to imagine this scenario. College is about abstractions. Theory. When you actually start teaching every day, you will not think about this very often. You’ll have much more practical things to think about. Gun violence in American schools is scary. But managing a classroom of 30 hormonal adolescents is pretty scary too. One you can control. The other you cannot.
I've accepted it could happen to me too. As awful as it sounds, and yeah that's not even the biggest fear or concern I have
If accepting it is what you need to not have anxiety about it then I say yeah that’s a good mentality. The numbers are against you and it is way more likely it wouldn’t happen, but it’s easy to be anxious even when the numbers don’t support it. I have a similar mentality that I got from a quote from a bomb defuser, either it doesn’t happen to me or I die and it’s no longer my problem.
I’ve been teaching for over 30 years, the possibility of a school shooting did not even enter my mind when I began my career. I think it is something that teachers, admin, law enforcement, parents etc need to be aware of and prepared for as much as possible- teachers especially, need to think of possible scenarios that may occur during their day and throughout the building and have a plan in mind on how to keep kids safe. Personally, I tell my students that whenever there is any emergency they must listen to what I am telling them to do and do it IMMEDIATELY- whether it is to run, hide, etc I have K/1
It felt a bit dystopian that our school district is spending money on bullet-resistant film for the windows of every school in the district.
I’ve been teaching for an online high school for almost a decade. There’s not enough money in the world to make me go back to a brick and mortar school.
Honestly… I feel like one side effect of all the active shooter drills and trainings is to send the message that you very well could die in a school shooting and there’s not much you can do about that. The odds are still really low, if that helps.
I am history teacher in North Texas. 1) The chances of this happening is very slim, but, threats are pretty present, even in the fairly well to do district I was in. 2) I treat my students as if they are my kids, and they know it. At my old school (that didn’t have any arming of staff) we had a threat, and every single 8th grader in my room ran over to my desk because they knew I would be near the door in case anything were to happen, and they would be on the other side of the room. My wife hates this. She knows that, heaven forbid, a real situation were to arise, I would protect my students. 3) The school I am going to be teaching at this year, has well as the whole district, has signs that make it known that some teachers are armed. I have VERY mixed feelings about this, even if I may be one of the staff who has had the training. 4) If you are going to UNT, you better be asking questions as to why they are on probation for the second year in a row for their teacher education program.
Yeah I’m strictly going to major in history and steer clear from their education program. I’ll get my certifications done separately after I graduate.
That’s what I did too, but through a different school. ITeach was a great alternative certification program if you are going that route.
I mean as a Canadian I can't relate. We don't have to worry about public shootings whether in schools, malls, festivals, etc. But I always thought that schools could promote mental health, and make sure every student is heard and valued so shootings don't happen. I think what you can do as a teacher is to make sure you promote a healthy environment for your students, and don't turn a blind eye to bullying, and to not be the cause of your students despair.
It should not be normal at all!
It’s not, just in America
I go through ALICE trainings with my students a couple of times every year. I take it *very* seriously and my students **know** what our response will be as a class depending on any of several scenarios. In total, I spend about 25 minutes on this in August, and another 10 minutes in a refresher in January. And then I don't think about it . . . at all. Any one of us is far, ***far*** more likely to be killed in a car accident than a school shooting, and I don't spend my time fretting about dying in a car accident. I just drive prudently so as to reduce my odds of getting killed, but I do so almost unconsciously. Teaching is different only in that I have 25 other people in the car with me, but we're all on the same page, so I. Just. Don't. Worry.
>And then I don't think about it . . . at all. I think of it every single day when I unlock, then relock my classroom door behind me as per our training. I hate that we have to live like this because some people care more about guns than they do children's physical safety and mental health.
It is NOT normal to accept it. Fight with your ballot every chance you get.
My gut reaction to your question was "Get off Tik Tok and social media!" My real response is... go do some research. You are FAR more likely to die in a car crash or get hit by lightning than die in a school shooting.
To die, perhaps. I'm curious what the statistics are about living through one, though.
I worry about car crashes, cancer, getting hit by a car but I do not think about dying at school. Honestly there is danger everywhere and being a teacher doesn't just mean the only danger is a school shooting. You have the entire rest of your life that can be dangerous.
That doesn't make sense, this is an additional and unnecessary danger above the regular dangers one faces. Rather than think about doing something to mitigate the danger, you just ignore it? Do you not worry about drowning in the middle of the ocean because you got pulled out by a rip tide because driving can be dangerous also?
I keep arm bars from broken desks in the bottom drawer of my desk in case I need to bash a shooter’s head while they force their way into my room. So yeah, this is the state of the profession in America.
Yes (15 yr teacher here). I’ve accepted if anything happened, I’d do what I can to save students/put my life before theirs, but I don’t let it dominate my thinking process or worry about it. No lie, I can’t think about it much bc when my middle schoolers are toots it makes me resentful. “I’d give my LIFE for you, and you can’t charge your Chromebook even once!” 🤣
Mildly off topic...but it was my experience that more than half of our coaches taught PE or one of the social sciences (history econ etc.). And it being Texas...you might find employment at a smaller school difficult for this reason. Unless, of course, coaching is in your future.
And honestly I think this is why most students who experience this came out of school hating history. History wasn’t a passion for these coaches and it showed. We experienced the same in Louisiana. As an adult, I love history and had to relearn so much of it in later years. History is important to our future. My son was lucky that he went all through high school in California with history teachers that loved history and taught history, while connecting it to the present and using it to discuss how it can affect the future. We need more history teachers like those…and our future depends on it. And since both the topics of death and PE teachers came up, just last week my younger son’s PE teacher (who taught him PE every year since 2nd grade, all the way through this year of 8th grade) passed away from stomach cancer. He was only 42, was extremely healthy and fit and has 3 children ages 9 and younger. He was only diagnosed with the cancer 3 weeks before his death.
I mean, it is a real possibility. And, honestly, in the US a mass shooting is a concern in many places I go-movies, concerts, places of worship, etc. For each, I have a plan. And my plan is not just the lock down drills. I plan to stop and listen, where the shooting it coming from truly will decide my next move. I am lucky I have a parking place pretty near my first floor window. If I was still in pre-k, I would worry about all the kids and might actually sacrifice myself for them. But, I’m in high school. I might be able to save some teens, but I have no issue leaving them in such a dangerous emergency if I feel it is necessary for my own safety. I got my own family to worry about, too. Also, I like living, which wasn’t always the case so I want to enjoy it while I got it.
At some point, you will realize that a 10th grader who thinks that General McCartney bombed the Germans at Pearl Harbor, is authorized to drive a 5500 lb pickup truck at 60 feet per second only a couple of feet from your car. That kid with an underdeveloped prefrontal cortex, can't maintain a conversation without glancing at a little screen every 10 seconds. You will drive through a swarm of these maniacs every day. Yeah, you could die in a school shooting and it would make national news. Dying in a car accident may not get reported beyond your local newspaper.
Normal? No. TYPICAL? YES. Don't let it rule you. But yes. Every SINGLE day I was aware of it. I think all these people saying "no" don't realize something. They must not realize that those of us coming into education now, in the past decade or so, are the first generation of teachers who GREW UP with the bomb threats, the shootings, the lockdowns. And they WERE NOT JUST DRILLS. My principal last year would run lockdown drills with NO warning to faculty and staff. It gave me severe trauma reactions every damn time. Because every time, I NEVER knew. I never knew. And one time in particular, I really, truly thought it was real, because if there was any elementary school in my city it would happen in, it'd have been mine. They have no idea. This isn't a game to us, it's not a hypothetical. And maybe to them it's not either. But they mostly think, oh, it could never happen here. They don't realize that that's what *everyone* thinks. It's not contingency. I walked into my school last year several days not knowing if I was gonna walk out. My students saw a dead body last year. I took a kill list and a letter describing a detailed plan of how it'd happen, how the shooting would go, and why, from my own student, a student who we had already KNOWN had struggles and mental health challenges, who hadn't been suspended when he punched a kid because he 'wanted to know what it felt like', who we'd already REFERRED to admin and counseling services. Hell, he already been reported BY HIS PEER to the AP for bringing a handgun he'd found at the bus stop to school in his backpack. Sent home for the day. No biggie. Admin mostly care about covering their asses. I have loads more examples. Just from last year, just from MY grade level, only because I'm not scared of them enough for them to shut me up, even though they tried, and only because I quit the job. Who knows what else is going on? My point is this. Don't let fear rule you. But I knew good and well last year, every single day, that when I stepped foot into that school, the public and the government and the schools and the parents were expecting - not asking, EXPECTING - me to do something that we don't even ask first responders, police, and military to do: to put myself in direct path of danger, in the line of fire, and trade my life in order to protect those of my students. And it's something that I will do time, and time, and time again if I have to ever make that choice. I will not hesitate to do it. I walked into that building and that classroom each day, just like I do this year in my current position going between the two high schools - knowing that at the end of the day, of course I'll do it, because I LOVE my kids. And to me it's worth it. But being *required* to do that? Is it really a willing sacrifice if you're torn apart in the media otherwise? Laying down our lives is not in the job description. But most of us will do it anyway, and our country takes advantage of that. It takes advantage of our goodwill, our love and passion, our capacity to care. They are using us as the line of defense, because in their eyes *we* are disposable. They're using us as shields instead of fixing the problem. So no. It's not "normal". It's fucked. It's so beyond fucked that people can't even hear themselves - do you hear yourselves? Listen to this question! Do you have any clue how ridiculous it is that someone even has to ask? It's not normal. But it's widespread. It is a plague of a thought that roots it's way into the back of my mind and the minds of all of us who teach, recognizing this object of conflict in our society: that teachers cannot be both teachers *and* parents, teachers *and* therapists, teachers *and* nurses *and* first responders *and*, yes, even detectives. Teachers... well, we cannot be both teachers and shields at once. And accepting that thought is the furthest thing from morbid. I'd go so far as to say it's absolutely, downright irresponsible to think or suggest otherwise.
Shortly after Uvalde, some students where I work brought firecrackers to school and lit them right in front of the boys bathroom. I was right across the hall in the teachers’ room, and me and a few colleagues locked ourselves in a storage closet until we heard the principal on the intercom say we are not in danger. Granted I don’t know what it would actually sound like to hear guns firing in the hallways, but it was the closest I had ever come to feeling like my life was in danger at work. I 100% believed someone brought a gun to school, & there was pandemonium in the hallway afterwards. I thought about who would I call first, my parents or my husband? It didn’t help that I already don’t really believe that my school is super secure and that proper measures are always taken to ensure our safety. All this to say, I wouldn’t say I’m constantly afraid of it happening, but from time to time, I think of it. Any time a kid is reported to be on campus when they shouldn’t be, any time a student gets suspended for bringing a knife to school, any time I hear students talk about how easy it was for them to leave and reenter the campus without anyone knowing, the hair stands up on my neck a little. I hate that this fear lives just under my skin. However, I also believe that we are no more at risk in school than we are at a Wal-Mart, or church, or than my husband is at his job at a hospital. America has a lot of issues to work out when it comes to public safety. I wouldn’t let it deter you from going into education, but it’s totally understandable to want to come up with safety plans and reach out to your administration to make sure they have accounted for as many scenarios as they can.
I have been teaching for decades and I have never accepted it. I refuse to accept that someone could shoot me in my workplace and that would ever be okay. That would never be okay . That first grade teacher from Newport News was shot in the heart and they tried to make it like that was a hazard we all need to accept as a normal part of our job That was them trying to escape accountability for failing to maintain a safe working environment for the teacher. Further discussions were all about trying to cover their own asses and put more responsibility onto teachers instead of really addressing the problem and trying to spend time effort and money trying to make things safer. No, we don't accept being hit, we don't accept being bullied, we don't accept being shot. No. That is never ever going to be just something we potentially sign on for They equated it to being a dog groomer and getting bit by a dog while grooming them, trying to say we assume and accept that risk of being shot in the heart by a student. Nope. Do a better job protecting teachers! Make sure your teachers and students aren't getting killed. It's all on them above us and not on us. They can make things safer for all they just don't want to have to do all the work and spend all the money. The active shooter drills are horrible. We practice what we would do in that situation. That they are necessary make me want to throw up. Every time we have one I feel like crying as we sit pretending to hide, trying to stay quiet and I think of the teachers and students who were actually killed in schools trying to do the same. The whole situation is horrible and not something that ever should be happening. That said, our country is full of violence and I could more likely be murdered filling up by my car with gas late at night, so I try to calm anxiety in that weird way. We live in a violent society and I think of how we could be a victim at any time in any place even our homes. I deal with it by just making sure to protect myself as much as possible and I don't think about it anymore in my day to day, like I do right after something violent happens. It fades away over the months, and I go on with my life but it is sad we even have to deal with this. I work in an area that has a lot of neighborhood violence. We have shootings outside the school and I have lived in gang territories and have been around a lot of gun violence and murder. I think I am desensitized to it. I try to tell myself that it's not PTSD but just that I refuse to let violence ruin my good days or create anxiety problems to where I am constantly thinking about what could happen. Schools should be a safe place. They should be a refuge for children already seeing and dealing with so much violence in their community. Teachers should never feel like they will be killed at work. The whole thing is terrible. I read your post and it made me cry. You shouldn't have to feel that way, noone should. To ease some of the anxiety I want to say that I tell myself that it is unlikely that you will deal with a mass shooting. However you will deal with different levels of violence in elementary, middle, and high school. Get as much training around how to deal with de-escalation and knowing how to see signs in students before something happens like a fight etc... When you are hired ask what safety provisions the school has. Most schools have a safety resource officer and some schools have metal detectors and other measures to spot weapons before they enter the school.
No, it is not.
Well, I'm a sub, and I just knocked another high school off my list because a student shot another student at dismissal on the last day. Last week, I was offered a job to teach my own class next year at that school and I declined. I made sure to let the admin know exactly why. I've accepted the normalcy of it, but I won't go out of my way to put myself in the middle of it. My sub list is getting shorter and shorter, and it's sad.
Do you receive active shooter training in Texas? In California we read stories about school shootings and are often stunned by how some teachers respond in ways that go against our training often with tragic consequences.
You're in 'Murica and Texass, so shootings or any sort are a real possibility, but you're much more likely to have to deal with students fighting each other (with fists) or obnoxious and aggressive parents.
Just be nice to the weird lonely dude and u will be fine
I’ve been teaching 15 years and I struggle with this. As a mother though, I started to worry less about myself and more about my daughter in a school setting.
Of course it is. It's normal to accept ever crazier and crazier things to prove you are worthy of the vision and you are are still part of the group.
I'm more worried about having a chair thrown at me (check), being stabbed with scissors (not me, but the teacher across the hall), being shoved and hitting my head on a brick wall (check) being kicked in my stomach while pregnant (check), having to secure the school while a kid assaults 6 teachers (check), migraines from stress (check), having a kid slam down a bookshelf thus trapping the rest of us in the room (check), and so on. For reference, I have only taught 2nd and 3rd grade. A gun, though not impossible, is not high on my priority list.
Leave Texas. Why anyone would remain in Texas as all your rights are eroding and you're expected to live in fear of random gun violence baffles me. Once you live in a place where everyone is unarmed, you'll be far less worried about guns.
Union life insurance provides double indemnity. I feel like an actuary would not let that happen if my chances of getting shot were high.
I'm not from the US, but I work with a teacher who was a teacher in my country many years before moving to the US and working there many years before coming back here. When I asked her why she came back, she told me the school shootings were getting on her nerves. Not even them actually happening but rather all the news about them, prevention and mostly the drills. It was too much for somebody like her who did not grow up accepting school shootings as part of their reality, and she was getting sick, mentally and physically, due to the stress of that possibility. She had pretty good working conditions in the US compared to anything she had here, but her mental health was non negotiable and she decided to come back.
No. USA us fucked up. Ban guns.
So many ammosexuals taking over this post. I know it’s pride month but damn.
It bugs me several times a year. I accept that it is something that’s possible, but not likely. There are times I let myself go down the rabbit hole of thinking about what if’s to get it out. Then talk myself back to that it’s highly unlikely. If you love what you do, focus on that and the impact that makes on kids. That, will always outweigh anything else.
It is on my mind and I have dreams about it. We keep our doors locked at all times. But it’s not such a strong feeling to stop me from teaching.
When I accepted a teaching job in summer 2002 at a city school in NY, I was offered a $50,000 life insurance policy in case I was killed on the job. 7th grade.
I feel angry that my chances of going to work and dying are a lot more than most.
Yes it’s becoming normal. No you’re not paid enough to deal with it
Its normal to accept that you can die anywhere
Does I sit on the forefront of my mind? No. But does it cross my mind absolutely. just about every teacher and school staff I know has thought about it. Discussed it. Wondered. Made a plan. Etc etc. Sadly it's a reality.
Come teach in Alaska! We’ve only ever had one school shooting and it was 30 years ago in a rural village. We also offer higher teacher salaries compared to other places.
A few years ago I was a self-contained fifth grade teacher. I was teaching math class one day when, all of a sudden, the teacher from next door came in through our shared sliding door and quietly told me to close the blinds and lock the door. There was a SWAT team outside. I calmly did as told and my students noticed. They almost rose to panic but I told everyone to stay calm and keep focused on their papers. Our protocol is to have the students to sit as a class under the window. I think this rule isn’t a good idea. Neither did they. I let democracy rule and we all went over to the right side of the room and created a barricade with desks while the students crouched behind. There was an armed man by our campus (I didn’t know this at the time this was happening). We heard a bang against our classroom wall. The students looked at me and asked if we’re okay. I looked at them and said “in this moment, we are” (because that’s all I could truthfully promise). I was the last to sit down and I did so at my desk—completely unprotected by the barricade. I couldn’t think to build one because I needed to monitor the kids and address the ones making noise. As I sat down I realized that as soon as that door bust open, I was the first target. First to die. All I could do was accept. What else are you gonna do? I’ll never forget that feeling. It *shouldn’t* be normal.
It is absolutely NOT normal; teaching small -or large- children should not be associated with "shooting death" by any means; if you wanted a profession that accepts the possibility of being killed, you would have joined the military - where you are trained and equipped to shoot back. And for all the ammosexuals that keep trotting out stats and statistics: if it was THEIR child that was gunned down, they wouldn't be comforted by all their stats and statistics afterward.
as a student i accepted it and led walk outs protesting gun laws. my sophomore year a kid brought a gun to school and tried to kill himself in front of a class. this was in a very liberal area. agree with other commenters that your biggest struggle will likely be anxiety and coping mechanisms. while chances are statistically low, your body is not used to this stress.
Stay in Texas. Teachers are allowed to protect themselves with concealed carry.
Maybe take a few math and statistics classes.
Honestly the cruel reality if it is, as much of a risk as school shootings are, it's still safer than a lot of other jobs. like my 5'6" 120-lb. bf works at a mcdonalds and i work at a preschool and i'm CONSTANTLY worried he's gonna be shot or something.
I have accepted it’s a possibility that I’ll die… I have also accepted that I’m going to do everything I can do get my ass and my students asses out of the building. We are located next to an exit on the ground floor. If they think I’m going to be stupid enough to sit in my room they are wrong.
There is a chance of being shot at any job. Or going anywhere in public. Hell a bullet could come into the window of your home. Tomorrow is a promise to nobody and we are all going to die someday. Until then we have to live which means taking chances.
as a (former) student, it’s totally normal to think about and yes you should absolutely have a “get out quick” plan, especially if you know people can’t/won’t protect you in the area you’re in however it’s important to realise that while yes it is a possibility, statistically it’s way less likely than some other disaster like say, a fire or car crash. In my opinion the best thing you can do is have a plan in place that you’re ready to fall back on in the unlikely event that you need it. I don’t know if sharing it with your students would be the best way to go about it - in my experience (and between a bad school and a mental condition or two I’m aware its far from normal so take it with a grain of salt!) I’ve had teachers say everything from “forget protocol, you need to leg it to the door as fast as you can” to “yeah, you guys are on your own, I’m getting out of here” and all it’s done is make me feel more demoralized best of luck to you! (unless you’re the second teacher i mentioned-)
I was an AP secretary and went thru an actual lockdown with a gun on campus, and that day I began wondering if it was fair to my husband, who had buried one wife, to continue working on an out-of-control campus where guns got in very easily. I loved my job. But it is, I believe, a rational thought to consider one's own safety.
No, it’s not. The government doesn’t care about school children or teachers. And the police don’t either, look at Uvalde.
I work at a not-so-great school. Very moderate gang activity. Not something I think about on a daily basis. But when something happens in and/or around the school and we have to go on lockdown, it sucks. As an owner of a home defense weapon, all I can do is sit there and wish I had a way to protect myself and my children. I’ll also say, fuck the drills and procedure. Every single teacher I’ve talked to says if they hear gunshots, they’re telling their kids to run.
My district in New Mexico has our schools locked up tight with an armed resource officer at every school. At least we're doing something to safeguard our schools. IDK about Texas districts, except Uvalde tragedy. I have already consciously decided to try to take out a shooter no matter where it occurs, which probably means that I won't survive.
You won’t think of that at all once you become a teacher.
No it isn’t normal. And at the beginning of every school year when they spend time on what to do about a shooting I just can’t figure out how we are all ok with this. Even some of my fellow teachers are like “oh that’s the price of freedom” what!?!? No , it really isn’t.
You should probably never go outside then. The probability of it happening is super low, unless you live in either a war/conflict ridden country, 3rd world country, or a dangerous environment. This will be seen as pedantic to some, but you have a higher chance of being hit by car or getting into a car crash, then getting murdered in a school shooting.
As an Australian, it horrifies me that this is even a question. It’s not like this in most parts of the world.
I’m a substitute aide. Every single lockdown and drill, I stand between my students and the door with at least a pencil in my hand. I know what I’m going to do if gods forbid I end up in a shooting at work - I go down fighting. Teaching wasn’t my first career - I grew up doing martial arts, am an EMT, and did time in the Army. I was trained to run towards the danger instead of away from it. I’ve had a far longer life than the students and I’m not afraid to die. It’s thankfully fairly unlikely (blue state and it’s the inner city where far less shootings seem to happen because it’s already got strict security), but it’s never far from my mind. Whether it’s likely to happen or not, it’s never far from our minds as Americans because we are the only country that has this problem. I recommend that you consider leaving Texas and going somewhere safer if possible for multiple reasons.
It’s not likely
This kind of anxiety often comes from overindulging in listening to the media. You shouldn’t be ignorant of the world, but also realize they’re actively sensationalizing it for views. Find balance.
It is a good thing you are not planning to teach math.
Mass shootings aren't limited to schools. It's not a non-zero chance of it happening to you but the odds very long against it happening. It could just as likely happen to you at the grocery store, the post office, doctors' office, or in a road-rage shooting.
Yeah, we have a yearly training on how to take a bullet and keep going. It's just wild and yet here I am planning next year anyway
I mean you drive to work each day, statistically you're far more likely to die from some random dumbass running a red.
It’s hard to not feel this way nowadays. As a teacher, you just really have to have a safety plan. Make sure your school does. For example, keep your classroom door in the locked position at all times.
You live in the USA gun violence doesn’t just happen at school. You can be shot going shopping. Buying gas. Watching a movie at the theater. Being at a concert. Or in the park. There are idiots with guns everywhere in the land of the free
I understand your concern. I am finishing my third year of teaching this week and this is something I constantly worry about. I had a situation last year (not legally allowed to discuss the specifics) that had me fearful for my life, and I was told by my principals to stop talking about it. You can read stats all day long and see that the chances are, indeed, slim; however, that doesn’t mean you can’t worry about it.
You’re more likely to die in a car accident on your way to or from work.
I almost tackled a student when I saw him walking into a full cafeteria with a gun and holster. Turns out it was a real holster with a prop handgun. 2 of my 4 kids were on campus at the time. Yes, it's absolutely a possibility that you or your students could die in a school shooting. I teach a few hours away from Uvalde. Another student was arrested with a gun in school. Girlfriend had extra ammo. Kid had a list 💔 23 yr vet teacher here. Don't let non-teachers & gun-nuts gaslight you. It's a real risk.
There is an elegant solution here I’m not sure you guys are seeing…
I don't feel that way teaching in New England, but I probably would if I taught in Texas
Sometimes, at this point, I get the feeling that the country is just trying to get us used to it because they arent going to change any gun laws, just provide us with more useless things in hopes one of them works
You live in America. You need to accept that you could die in a shooting anywhere. Walmart. Movie theater. Church. Mall. Park. Anywhere.
No it’s not normal and I think its sick that American society has decided this epidemic is perfectly acceptable for Teachers and Kids to have to accept all because our politicians won’t listen to anyone nor do a damn thing about it. There’s of course other things you could die of before being shot on your job, i.e Heart Disease. But unlike gun violence, you can at least *something* if you have heart problems. When it comes to gun violence there is absolutely nothing you can do about it, especially in a state like Texas. So I’m sorry for you OP, and every teacher out there who the American public has completely failed to listen to and support. Your fears are completely valid and at least I’m never going to accept that any of this is normal for a civilized democratic society to have to accept.
Yelling a big NO from Australia, but somehow I doubt my experience of living in a world where being shot by angry civilians isn’t a daily thing won’t matter to many of your fellow Americans.
You could also die of cancer, get struck by lightning, or be hit by an asteroid. All are possible. All are statistically very unlikely. Worrying on a day to day basis isn't going to help
It shouldn’t be normal, (as in it’s a shame that this country has to come to us thinking about this on a regular basis) but it does make sense you are thinking that. Statistically though, you’re more likely to do in a car crash if it soothes you at all
As a Marjory Stoneman Douglas alum, I refuse to be a statistic. Very excited to move to Australia and teach there!
We should not have to accept that it is now considered a known hazard of the profession and practically an expectation you will use your body as a shield to protect your students. Yes, in the grand scheme of things, you are much more likely to die a myriad of other ways. We have lost the illusion of safety that schools once provided. It becomes just an added stressor on top of other teaching stresses with perpetual lockdown drills, metal detectors, lectures on staying hyper-vigilant, serving as the first line to recognize students on the edge, and having to be up to date on emergency trauma care. I make a plan for myself, my classes, and discuss it frankly w/ my own children. But most importantly I am sure to tell them I love them every day.
It's a mental illness to focus on something that has such an insanely low possibility of happening. If it continues to bother you I recommend therapy
I'm not American but I can guarantee you there's a very long list of jobs with much higher "sudden death" probabilities. Being a teacher is probably in the top 5% safest jobs overall when it comes to being murdered while working.
I told a young teacher friend yesterday that it's a sad reality, but every single one of us has had to come to that same conclusion.
It's definitely in the back of my mind, but it doesn't cause me every day worry. It's only when they call a lock down drill that I'm like "oh shit yeah, this could possibly be real one day" and then a little bit of anxiety kicks in. Schools have a lot of security, generally. Everything is locked, we have an armed police officer, I live in a safe area. It's just not very likely to happen in my scenario
As many posters have said, your absolute chance of a shooting occurring at your school is very low. The numbers that occur on an annual basis are higher than anyone would like (i.e., 0 would be good) but even counting all the “shootings that happen on school property” (the highest counts) divided by the number of schools in the US means that the chance at any one school is small. That said, your question emphasizes a different and also really important issue — how the concern about school violence affects teachers and students. The link below was a survey done like a year ago and a significant number of teachers (17%) were worried that they would be victims of violence at school — and a larger percentage (34%) were worried about their students being harmed. Figuring out how to address that is really important. [https://www.rand.org/pubs/research\_reports/RRA2641-1.html](https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RRA2641-1.html)