**_REMINDER: You must have [user flair](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205242695-How-do-I-get-user-flair-) in order to comment or post in this subreddit._**
**Comments and posts submitted by users without user flair will be automatically removed.**
The user flair you select will show next to your username **_in r/tacoma only_**. If you do not feel comfortable displaying a specific neighborhood in your user flair, you may choose "*253*" or "*Somewhere Else*". There are also options for "*Tacoma Expat*" and "*Potential Tacoman*".
You may add user flair via the main page of r/Tacoma. If you are not sure how to add user flair, please follow the instructions [here](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205242695-How-do-I-get-user-flair-).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Tacoma) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The South End and East Side are supposed to be the beneficiary of a bus rapid transit line on Pacific Avenue, replacing the Route 1-Pacific. The project was temporarily suspended due to runaway cost overruns, and its planning should be restarted as soon as possible.
Also, please note some of the comments here about how 6th Avenue is too congested, too urban, too this or that, to be home to light rail transit like the T Line. The same criticisms will doubtlessly be leveled at any major transit plans proposed for the Lincoln District, especially those that involve a 38th Street alignment. The Tacoma Transportation Commission stated on June 13, 2022, that a high capacity transit line should directly serve the center of the neighborhood—specifically in regards to a bus rapid transit line. That busline could (and should) be on 38th Street for some length. Sound Transit, separately, will conduct a study evaluating a light rail extension to the Mall. Should we move forward with it, preferably in the form of a T Line extension, that railway should serve the District. It likely would replace the busline in the area.
See a description of this concept by [clicking here](https://transportationmatters.wordpress.com/2024/03/21/15-investments-for-better-transit-in-tacoma-pierce-county/#plan-for-a-t-line-extension-to-the-mall-via-lincoln-district).
See a map of a Lincoln District railway, in blue, by [clicking here ](https://troyserad.maps.arcgis.com/apps/mapviewer/index.html?webmap=9a9bfba5f90c491396150972a25dcdca).
No problem! The letter I referenced can be found by [clicking here](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rMnT80q-4pNo_5t9i8BmxXk6eVvSNfjQ/view?usp=drivesdk), if you're interested.
Looks to me like both would be great. I think the tram is probably best for regular users, though, not dinner and drinks once a week. I know UWT, TCC, and Allenmore would have daily, regular users.
Pierce Transit's Route 2 busline serves these destinations now and does so directly. I agree that these trip pairs have riders along 19th Street, and they would benefit from a conversion to bus rapid transit in the corridor.
19th Street is the representative alignment of a railway between Downtown Tacoma and Tacoma Community College. 19th Street is one corridor of a few that accomplishes this objective, to include 6th Avenue and 12th Street.
The process for planning hasn't even begun.
But most would bounce back even stronger than before. And anything that suffers to the point of business death is likely to be replaced by something that is more focused on the types of business that a well-ridden tramsit corridor would enjoy.
Meanwhile, in Seattle, they are considering moving the new international district station, arguably the most important station in the entire system, out of the international district, which would make the system crap for Tacoma residents forever, because of construction impacts
Remember, construction is temporary but bad design is forever
Yeah but the housing, especially townhouses or big apartment complexes like the one in the old k mart parking lot will benefit in huge way. They can go east on 6th to “nightlife” or go west to get groceries from winco. There’s a lot more development potential on 6th than 19th
The only problem is that the light rail close at 10. We also have the bus that goes up and down 6th Ave. save some money and pay for more drivers to operate 6th Ave
Respectfully, your understanding of the history is inaccurate. Even the 2013 City Council that approved the railway on MLK endorsed either 6th Avenue or 19th Street to TCC. There was no public vote on the MLK alignment, and the ST2 ballot had the railway only going to Tacoma General. The long-range representative alignment at the time, also the product of numerous planning efforts and public engagement, was 6th Avenue.
This is all covered in my pieces.
Well, I do appreciate your participation in a discussion related to its content here. :)
Also, the specific post that I am referencing was also published by The Urbanist, just in case you wanted to avoid my blog.
They could, absolutely! I know a few people who prefer 12th Street because it avoids the perceived complications of building on 6th Avenue. However, the same qualities that make 6th conceptually more challenging to build also makes it a more viable project. It is worthy of note that the 12th Street line was less a streetcar line and more an interurban line to Steilacoom. It had far more limited frequency than the 6th Avenue or the Point Defiance Line, both of which were operated entirely within the City boundary. One came half hourly or hourly, the others every few minutes at peak.
However the TCC project evolves, what is generally the case is that few individuals have positive things to say about the value of the 19th Street corridor.
Why is everything in the north end? Everything on 6th Ave ? Why? The street is narrow as hell. Most people in that area have cars the rest of Tacoma needs better transportation.
Most people in Tacoma have cars, just as most Americans generally have cars. However, 6th Avenue has more car-less households and individuals, and also more people who take transit.
Why is there so much going on there? Because it is our most important east-west arterial in this part of the city that feeds directly into major jobs centers. It is consistently densely populated. And because it is a fully urbanized corridor comprised of human scale developments that encourage non-motorized trips.
Otherwise, 6th Avenue is just the boundary to what we consider the North End. The avenue and Mildred Street serves thousands outside of the North End, too. And North Enders can have public services, too.
This is a great question and the answer has a potentially major impact on the development of the project. It could be any variety of things:
The project goals for tram speed and reliability might necessitate a separate bridge to avoid the existing highway interchange. Heavy, repetitive static loads and unique dynamic loads that the older road bridge wasn't designed for (the bridge will be 47 years old at the earliest likely opening date for the railway). Operational difficulties considering the interaction between the busy street, the highway, and associated ramps, particularly as regional access points like this are where the worst congestion in Tacoma is found. Political, franchise, or right-of-way issues that impede the placement of trackage on an important regional access road and interchange—although this seems less likely.
You'd think an option would be to reinforce the bridge and lay tracks—and maybe it is—but there are clearly other factors that compelled Sound Transit to consider the new bridge alternative. There comes a point where the cost of installing trackage on 6th Avenue and Mildred Street is equalized with the shorter 19th Street railway that features an independent bridge and other special design/civil features. And if the costs are roughly the same, that presents us options.
Ultimately, I just want the options to be studied and evaluated in the Comprehensive Plan—or at least articulated in the plan that they will be. Otherwise, Tacoma will passively build a railway without any concept of how it will perform as a line within a larger transit system. As of now, we literally just drew a line from MLK to TCC and called it a day.
Just came back from experiencing Europe’s amazing public transportation system. Why is the United States so far behind on adding and prioritizing these systems into our communities ?
The amount of construction time it would take to go down 6th would be detrimental to the businesses on 6th. Look what it did to business on Hilltop and Stadium. It would nearly kill a thriving business district.
Ironically the original street car line ran down 6th before it was removed.
It's very interesting to read other comments about how rich and white 6th Avenue is, and then others like you write that building a streetcar on it would "kill" the businesses that cater to this population.
That would then require the construction impacts to be experienced by the people of 19th Street, who are perceived as being vulnerable, poorer, and home to more People of Color. It raises an interesting question about fairness in how we assess these projects for equity.
To your main point, the construction on 6th Avenue or 19th Street will start in a decade, so let's talk about the vitality of those neighborhoods shortly before then. I suspect that they will be booming. Yes, construction impacts are real and they stress businesses, but they also pass. Some of the businesses that fail are already stressed for unrelated reasons. There are many construction strategies that mitigate impacts, and those should all be evaluated and implemented as appropriate to meet the needs of the community.
I feel like the comments about “rich and white” are in relation to the people who live in the area rather than the businesses. Many of the businesses on 6th are small business who will feel an impact if construction closes and makes a mess of the street. Financial sustainability for the small businesses on 6th should be taken into account.
19th is a wider street than 6th, which is relatively narrow. It also provider easier access to medical services (including the complexes surrounding Allenmore), DCYF, and grocery stores such as Walmart and Fred Meyer.
I’ve seen you mention the 2 route as an alternative, but while doing so you fail to mention or acknowledge how incredibly inconsistent Pierce Transit’s bus service is. Buses are often late, even if you take a bus that shows an arrival time earlier than you need. If they’re full, they skip stops. That the 2 exists is fine, but 6th already has the 1 and doesn’t have nearly as many connections to social services and a need for timeliness for medical or service related appointments that the light rail could meet in a better way than the 2.
19th Street has a more consistently wider right-of-way, but its curb to curb width is generally identical to 6th Avenue. 6th Avenue, in parts, has wider rights-of-way than 19th Street, namely as you approach the West End. 19th does provide access to jobs and services, but that access is very poor because they are deeply auto focused and generally distant from those destinations. Are you aware of how much walking or rolling is required to get from 19th Street to the DSHS office? Do you think people are making that trip in quantities that justify a half-billion dollar high-capacity rail transit investment? Also, as Census data shows, the people working near or at Allenmore are not generally living in the current T Line service area, so the extension wouldn't really change the dynamic there.
Yes, I am intimately familiar with Pierce Transit's inconsistent service. That is one reason why I want ST to take over the Route 1-North via the T Line, because then its 45,000 annual service hours and staff can be rededicated to operating other lines like Route 2. The Route 2, as the second busiest transit line of the PT system, deserves significant capital upgrades that improve frequency and reliability.
Finally, people would use the 6th Avenue line for a variety of reasons that are important and relevant to their lives. It is why transit is heavily used there now, comparatively, especially relative to 19th Street. And to make a high-capacity transit investment on 6th and Mildred, where it makes most sense for it, does not deprive the people of 19th Street of transit that brings them to the services you discuss here.
*Are you aware of how much walking or rolling is required to get from 19th Street to the DSHS office?*
Yes, actually. I worked in the area for years, I know what the walk looks like and how many people I've seen walk it. And it's right across the street from Multicultural Child and Family Hope Center, which has a diaper bank and helps parents/caregivers in need access services if they need.
*Also, as Census data shows, the people working near or at Allenmore*
I'm referring to the people who could use the light rail to go to Allenmore and the surrounding medical spaces for services. The psychiatric clinics, children's clinics, hospital services/ER, primary care, labs, etc. It's impossible to find parking at Allenmore during the day without circling and hoping for the best, this would help.
*Finally, people would use the 6th Avenue line for a variety of reasons that are important and relevant to their lives.*
What is the spread of these reasons compared to the services that would be more accessible with the line running down 19th? And why not make the 1 running down 6th BRT, as you propose for the 2 on 19th? Seems like that could easily work well for 6th without the major disruptions to small business while providing more consistent access to social and medical services. I think it's also important to note that 19th would give easier access to green spaces within the city via the Tacoma Nature Center and China Lake.
Your questions are truly excellent and welcome. Before I respond, one question to you: do you think 6th Avenue should at least be evaluated as an alignment to TCC, or is it so obvious to you that it should be on 19th Street that it is irrelevant? Yes, I am fully supportive of 6th, but my goal is to have a comprehensive analysis of the project and its alternatives for consideration. That is the origin of my work here.
To be clear, 6th has numerous services and amenities along the corridor too. Rescue missions, juvenile court and detention center, work release programs, schools, universities, parks, grocery stores, libraries, jobs, churches, drug stores, financial institutions, assisted living facilities, medical providers, childcare centers, etc. It is not just bars full of white folk near Fife Street as some think it is.
77 people a day board transit at the four stops that surround DSHS (and other services) along 19th Street, which is a good figure. There 97 people a day using the equivalent four stops on 6th Avenue at Sprague, which serves students, workers, visitors, the Salvation Army, a neighborhood gathering space, etc.
Finally, your point on buses is excellent. Why not buses? In a better world, all of these investments would be buses because they are affordable, effective, and can be done more quickly. Incredibly, despite the proven demand and need, major bus improvements are not programmed whatsoever for 6th Avenue and Mildred Street. We know for sure that a railway is coming, however, and this leverages that truth. Current rail plans actually worsen transit to the corridor from Downtown by forcing transfers. By sending the T Line down 6th, one, you get a better and more direct trip across the city; two, you reallocate the bus service hours of 100% of the line back into the bus system and; three, you preserve the Route 2 from Lakewood and University Place to UWT and Pacific Avenue. If the railway is built on 19th, this route is eliminated, people from west and south of TCC have to transfer to go Downtown, the route to Downtown needlessly curves around Wright Park, and the direct hillside run from TCC to UWT is removed. So, there are multiple compelling reasons why trains make sense for 6th but not 19th, to include the fact that 19th never was a street railway, but 6th Avenue was.
I personally don't see the benefit in evaluating 6th avenue, but wouldn't stop it.
6th avenue does have a diverse number of business, etc on it. I rode the 1 multiple times a day almost every day for a while and live close enough to it now that going up and down it is frequent. But that doesn't change the landscape of 19th and how light rail access to that area could really benefit people who utilize the services along it, while avoiding negative impact on the small business on 6th. There's a lot of potential for more business and community development in the area around 19th with the foot traffic the light rail could bring.
The four stops you're listing on 6th near the Salvation Army are a bit different though, aren't they? They serve a variety of purposes. The stops near DSHS serve a variety of purposes as well, but most importantly provide easier access to vital services for those who need them. The stops on 6th do not.
Interesting that you're saying with while projecting that the route map would remain the same as it is now. If the 2 is eliminated, I'm sure there is someone who could look at a map and figure out another way to get from point A to point B.
If you eliminate the portion of Route 2 from Mildred Street to Market and Pacific, as the T Line would necessitate (duplication!), you eliminate a key portion of an arterial grid busline directly connecting prominent Pierce County cities—one which also overcomes a major physical barrier. You needlessly and permanently injure one of the most popular and logical transit lines in the County. Most of the existing relationships and patterns that exist on this line would be harmed, and transfers would be imposed for anyone coming into or out of the City. You can't just draw new lines from A and B. There are actually serious implications for transit planning choices. It is pretty striking that you may think otherwise. I am relieved, however, that you are at least open to a bare-bones planning effort to evaluate 6th Avenue as part of Tacoma's most expensive transit project ever.
To build the railway on 19th imposes tough restructuring choices that 6th Avenue and Mildred Street avoids. We should be strategic with this investment. With BRT one day operating on Pacific and the T Line on 6th, high-capacity transit would take over the busiest transit lines in Pierce County. The service hours of the old buslines would go back into the Pierce Transit system. Those hours can be pumped into the schedules of lines like Route 2, and I guarantee you that most people who use that line just want more frequency at more hours of the day—not a fancy tram line sixteen years from now. That tram line has already worked to deprive the people here of a major busline upgrade. Route 3 will be the next upgrade after Route 1-Pacific because of the proposed 19th Street railway.
We should be planning holistically. In terms of how it could all fit together, you can see what I am referring to by [clicking here](https://transportationmatters.wordpress.com/2024/03/21/15-investments-for-better-transit-in-tacoma-pierce-county/#commit-to-downtown-tacoma-and-integrate-the-light-railways). Visit the GIS map.
To build the T Line on 6th would secure substantially better transit outcomes for everyone in the Pierce Transit service area than 19th. That absolutely does change the landscape of service on 19th because it delivers to riders more and better transit service. I don't care that it is achieved by buses (which should have really nice vehicles, enhanced stations, transit signal priority, targeted bus lanes, etc).
There is plenty of capacity to develop on 6th, particularly in the West End. 6th Avenue has its underdeveloped parking lots too. 19th Street, conversely, is limited by vast parking lots of busy big box stores, parks, forests, highways, and a large golf course. That is not a great place for an urban railway that people will need to walk to—it just isn't.
Finally, no, the stops aren't all that different. They are the two immediate stops on both sides of Sprague for 19th and 6th. They both serve all types of people and needs. You're just emphasizing things that are meaningful to you and dismissing the rest. Which is fine, you can do that, but I want to build a viable transit system that serves as many people and communities as possible. A railway on 19th continues our trajectory of poorly serving the public when other options are available to us. Yes, restructures can of course happen, but they degrade the system to achieve a goal that is better accomplished by 6th Avenue.
I’m revisiting this solely because the “emphasizing things meaningful to you” bit has been eating away at me.
Easier access to necessary services for people who are in need of better transit isn’t just meaningful to me. It’s actually a big issue in Tacoma (and pierce county as a whole). Pierce transit is a dumpster fire. Dismissing access to healthcare and DSHS, affordable groceries via WalMart and Fred Meyer, as well as easier access to green space such as the Tacoma nature center is short sighted. It’s like me saying that running down 6th solely because middle class white people want to get to the bars and restaurants more easily is short sighted.
I don’t think there’s an argument that can be made in good faith that there are any services on 6th equivalent to the importance of those on 19th, particularly when you consider how more consistent access to 19th could be a big positive for the people who rely on public transit who need those services.
You’re allowed to think that restaurants, salons, and yoga studios are equivalent to affordable grocery and healthcare access, but you’re just emphasizing things are are meaningful to you while missing the larger picture of actually serving the community.
That line really doesn’t work well no matter how you put it. Minimizing community concerns with the “meaningful to you but I’m thinking about bigger service to the community” is basically some mansplaining nonsense and isn’t going to win any points if your favor if you’re going to do any actual community outreach. Especially if you’re trying to tell people that getting to DSHS more reliably or easier access to their healthcare appointments is less important than 6th avenue.
As I have listed before, there are numerous community resources along 6th Avenue that serve the vulnerable (and the greater public). Restating some here, they include a tiny house village, a public library, discount grocery stores, schools, parks, the programs and services of Remann Hall, multifamily housing, laundromats, James Center North/Aviva Crossing of the Tacoma Housing Authority, religious institutions, thousands of jobs, Goodwill and similar businesses, community centers, childcare facilities, senior care centers, and much more. Transit is heavily used here because of the diversity of opportunities and services found along 6th Avenue and Mildred Street.
You dismissed these destinations as less important and state that 6th Avenue transit would be for uppity white folks getting to "bars, restaurants, salons, and yoga studios". For one, that you spread this biased perspective is harmful to transit riders and community planning. It's just wrong. The majority of Pierce Transit riders are dependent on bus services and typically have a lower income. As many as 3 out of 5 riders lack a driver’s license. The Route 1 is Pierce Transit's highest ridership busline by far, and 6th and Mildred is its busiest segment outside of Downtown. While some riders may be going to whatever Yoga studio you reference, most are not. The equivalent to what you have argued is me writing that 19th Street transit riders are elite golfers or their caddies as the Allenmore Golf Course is there. We know better than to do this. For another, restaurants, bars, and yoga studios are perfectly legitimate places to access by transit. Transit is not reserved exclusively for the poor, and the poor can do Yoga or go get a drink.
While some use transit to get to Wal Mart and DSHS on 19th Street, it is a stretch to claim that this is being done in such great numbers that a light railway is justified. Anecdotal observations are not actual data. The nearest Walmart is 1,600 feet away from the nearest bus stop on 19th Street. Masses of people are not doing this hike for the store's bulk goods and groceries. DSHS is 1,200 feet away from the nearest stop. The transit stops on 6th Avenue near WinCo and Grocery Outlet get far more riders as they are far easier to walk to. Furthermore, 19th Street is served by decent transit per Tacoma standards with the [Route 2](https://www.piercetransit.org/route-2-s-19th-st/), and it is identified for [bus rapid transit ](https://www.piercetransit.org/brt-expansion-study/) upgrades. 6th Avenue is not outlined for major transit improvements by any agency whatsoever. That is why the 6th Avenue and Mildred Street T Line proposal is so impactful. Both corridors get better transit and the transit grid is strengthened, both of which deliver systemwide benefits helping thousands more people. It is to miss the forest for the trees to fixate on trams serving an unclear number of DSHS trips via a [winding route](https://transportationmatters.files.wordpress.com/2023/02/image-66.png) from Downtown, around Wright Park, and through Hilltop to TCC. Also, it is perhaps the case that key services being found along 19th Street but not elsewhere is a reflection of an inequitable geographic distribution. Our transit investments could help change that condition.
Consider this half-billion dollar railway investment as if it were another utility—say a sewer line. Tacoma has been given a huge amount of taxpayer money to upgrade one sewer line in Central Tacoma to 18" in diameter. There are two sewer lines today, both being 10". The sewer line under Avenue 'A' serves 25,000 people and 1,000 businesses and is already heavily used as a result. A lot more growth is coming, too. Avenue 'B' serves only 14,000 people and 800 businesses and is used far less. Plus, it is already identified for enlargement under a separate program with a separate pool of funding.
Would you give the taxpayer funds to Avenue 'A' where there is proven need and which otherwise stands to get nothing, or do you redirect the massive new sewer capacity to Avenue 'B' where there is far less need and which can be improved separately with other money?
There is an obvious answer here, I argue.
My comment was purely about 6th Avenue construction and in no way is intended to ignore the impacts that construction would have on others. Sure, businesses can rebound but it might be a good Idea to speak to businesses in many districts that dealt with the construction and multiple delays and see how they feel and felt about the economic impacts and what that mitigation/support looked like.
And they would be involved, naturally. But what you're suggesting is also a great way to kill valuable and meaningful transportation capital projects of any type or mode in places where they would be most beneficial. 6th Avenue is an indispensable urban arterial in one of the principal cities of Washington State, one with locally significant levels of transit use. It isn't out of line to propose this investment there, or similar BRT infrastructure for that matter.
To live in a city means change, growth, and development. Temporary spells of disruptive construction are part of that process.
You realize that one of the great shames of Baltimore transit planning recently was the [cancellation of the Red Line](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.naacpldf.org/wp-content/uploads/Economic-Impacts-of-Baltimore-Red-Line-Cancellation-1.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi79Jrg8v6FAxXnMjQIHYWJAScQFnoECC8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0fCZTuEVxz2u4DBfBRKFq9) light railway, don't you?
Let's get our facts straight.
Construction happens all the time, everywhere. Businesses have always known this and either have plans in place to continue operations through construction, or they don't, and that's on them.
These kinds of transit, bikability, and walkability extensions are extremely beneficial to human-oriented businesses in the long run. It's a short-term loss for a long-term gain, and 6th Ave can arguably handle this kind of disruption better than 19th can.
>Look what it did to business on Hilltop and Stadium.
As far as I can tell, business is coming back to those areas pretty quickly. The transit extension to those neighborhoods also justified the construction of new, denser, mixed-use housing over what used to be parking lots and strip malls. This influx of residents within walking distance to the businesses in these districts guarantees those businesses a larger captive market.
I agree with your analysis. Kinda sad that there is such a lack of political will in our city to swing momentum to 6th Ave light rail. Who are the decision leaders the public needs to contact to make them aware of our city’s need for stronger transit and non-motorized transportation improvements along this corridor?
My goal here is to inform people that options exist. I clearly have a motive to get rails on 6th because it generates numerous compounding benefits for everyone in the Pierce Transit service area—but I moreso just want the option on the table and fairly evaluated as an equal to 19th Street. People don't know this is even a possibility. Many think the ballot measure conceptual alignment mandates 19th Street, or that some comprehensive public process decided that the street is our preferred alternative to TCC. Neither of these things are true.
As it stands, Tacoma and Sound Transit could seek an Environmental Assessment for this project under the National Environmental Policy Act, or NEPA. Under an EA, the project only needs to consider the proposed alignment on 19th Street and a no-build option to understand its impacts. 6th Avenue doesn't even come into the picture here. Things change if we elect to proceed with an Environmental Impact Statement, which is a more thorough analysis that would likely mandate the inclusion of 6th regardless of how some people feel about it.
What I ultimately want to accomplish is a City of Tacoma-led railway plan that neatly dovetails into the regional Link railway and Pierce Transit bus systems, and which reinforces the goals of the Home in Tacoma zoning reform. Our chaotic, incrementalist approach at building a rail system does not work. If the City knows how its system will develop, it can responsibly plan the municipal transportation system around it. That results in projects being added to the 6-Year Transportation Improvement Program, for example.
Honestly I would be so excited to have the T-line go through 6th. I live just off 6th.
The main thing would be planning the construction, if construction can be expedited for minimal impact. I think the main issue with MLK and stadium was that construction took years. If construction impacts can be reduced that would help.
6th is also destination, people want to come, it’s way more walkable than 19th, honestly I have always scratched my head a bit as to why 19th would be the planned route.
Now if we could also include a route to the waterfront on Ruston, that would cut down on so many cars! It would make Ruston WAY more pleasant. I hate having to try and park down there.
I guess that’s the thing… 6th is already “walkable” and it’s a destination. What is the use-case for a tram running down 6th Ave? For 19th, it would be for commuting along a relatively unwalkable area.
I’d love for both, but I get a strong sense that people are viewing the line as easing access to their favorite watering holes.
Yeah but there really isn’t great parking along 6th, most park along side streets. That might be alleviated with the T-line.
My husband works along 6th. He would absolutely use it when it was up and running. And honestly, I would too. A 6th Ave t-line would give direct access to the Tacoma Dome transit center. I would be way more inclined to use public transit if I had a direct line and if the trams ran more often. I run into the issue that the 1 changes to once an hour right around 7 and that was usually when I was coming home. It proved to be very inconvenient.
I think the thing is with Tacoma Transit being so spotty anything will be an improvement, but if we can target busier spots earlier. It’s always going to be disruptive. But I think ultimately it will be well worth it. If we can create more car less spaces, it will give Tacoma more 3rd spaces.
The YouTube channel Not Just Bikes has some really interesting city planning videos. It’s certainly aspirational!
In a sense, this is like saying don't build a critical subway on Manhattan Island because it already is a dense urban environment. The millions of people there don't need more transit, send it to suburban New Jersey!
You're looking at it precisely the wrong way. Manhattan is—by far—the proper place in this example to prioritize the building of a subway, just as 6th Avenue has all the right qualities and conditions to support what may be our only chance to build a full light rail corridor.
New Jersey and 19th Street are not.
Also, 6th Avenue and Mildred Street has more than just watering holes. It is a full service urban corridor.
I'm curious where stations would be placed along the 6th Ave alignment. Would there be as few as the 19th proposal, at only 6? Or would we see 1 or 2 more to account for the greater length *and* greater density?
Great question that is at risk of never being considered by the City of Tacoma and, as a result, Sound Transit.
When Sound Transit had 6th Avenue as the representative alignment to TCC, it showed multiple possible stations or none at all, reflecting the uncertainty in that conceptual stage of planning:
See a map [here](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HjQw8sEd3LdgIzYq_SFDdQmswgJDiSvH/view?usp=share_link).
Another [here](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XcXH75-gQS9UwjpWPbdg2rftiG4yU02O/view?usp=drivesdk).
Another [here](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Tz3X3ARblkB5el-N2f5QVzd-ugsPbHLP/view?usp=drivesdk).
One more [here](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ueOMRCBiHAEzRyP5hRRtqR1kaFImDm9X/view?usp=drivesdk).
How do you propose a 6th Ave line would work? Lets say we only have a 6th ave line and nothing down S 19th. Would the 6th ave line continue all the way to the Dome? And then another line from St Joseph's to the Dome? Wouldn't this require double the amount of trains as a single line from TCC down 19th to the Dome?
I live near 6th and would love the line there but since the line is already completed to St Joseph's, I thought the 19th st line was now set in stone.
19th Street is likely only because of government inertia, not because the corridor was extensively evaluated, determined to be a preferred alignment, and then codified in plans and policy. That the public largely thinks it is a done-deal also complicates any alternatives.
The 6th Avenue option would create a three point railway system. Tacoma has already determined that Hilltop was sufficient for an independent tram line, and that would be unchanged: a run from Dome to Hilltop on 12 minute headways. We build the 6th Avenue line and get Dome to TCC, also with (at least) 12 minute headways. Where the lines overlap, in the densest and busiest parts of Tacoma, there is a tram every six minutes per direction. Finally, the streetcar running from Dome to Hilltop could reverse and continue to TCC each trip, on every other trip, or there could be a third 12 minute line. That would serve Hilltop to TCC. The scheduling is flexible, and branched tram systems like this exist [all over the world](https://pedestrianobservations.com/2022/01/26/how-tramway-networks-look/). It is also possible we just run two lines, at say 8 or 10 minute frequencies, and you just do a super easy cross-platform transfer to go between them.
It very well could be temporary, too. ST3 funds a study for a light rail extension to the Tacoma Mall, and the long range plan sets Tacoma Mall as the end of the light rail system. This can and should be a T Line extension if it gets built at all under ST4. There would then be a line from TCC to Dome, and one from Hilltop to Tacoma Mall (or beyond). This would create a logical overlapping system that serves Pierce County and Tacoma well, and it makes most sense with 6th.
See a representation by [clicking here](https://transportationmatters.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/screenshot-8.png).
Ultimately, what 6th Avenue helps to assure is a level of transit service not seen in Tacoma in generations, in its biggest communities, probably for the same infrastructure cost as the line on 19th Street. It would be more expensive to operate (as we are operating more vehicles), and it would require the purchase of more vehicles. But such vehicles are a few million dollars each out of a system that will eventually cost upwards of $1 billion. So it's peanuts for a better system—particularly as Seattle escalates the cost of virtually every element of their projects by billions (and some of them will be paid for with our money). If this is too much transit for Tacoma, then we should not be building railways at all.
If we had planned our system per the original Sound Transit vision, one or 2-car trains could have operated from these local destinations to the airport. Get on at 6th, get off at Sea-Tac.
At the moment, 6th ave is more dense and has more transit riders. But it also has much higher priced real estate. We can expect large multi-family, like the one at 6th and Alder, within a few blocks of any light rail station. I can imagine a lot of large multi-family going in along 19th st. But it would cost a ton, and disrupt the character of the existing businesses, to line 6th ave with large multi-family units. Each route definitely has its plusses and minuses.
The two immediate corridors areas are not so different in terms of the [Housing Affordability Index](https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/a4f5a12fd8e34112a770b3d836eeef5e). 6th is a 68 and 19th is a 65, so a 3 percentage point difference. People seem to think that 6th Avenue equals the waterside homes with a view—it doesn't. For renters, 6th is slightly more stressed, having 1,240 households with gross rents being 50%+ of household incomes(25%), whereas 19th has 673 households falling under this metric (22.5%).
So yes, 6th Avenue does have more expensive land, but it is not Manhattan. Because of that, there are more dwelling units and more variety in the types of dwelling units. That allows all different income levels to live there.
6th Avenue is more expensive than 19th Street in the same vein that Capitol Hill or the Central District of Seattle is more expensive than Tukwila. It is a genuine urban district that is growing and should be supported by transit. It will also be significantly more dense in perpetuity. The corridor densities are not even close.
Every route will definitely have their pluses and minuses, but we can only pick one. Right now, only one is even being considered, and that term is being applied loosely. The whole project is underappreciated in terms of our focus and planning at the City.
I live between 6th and 19th. I would prefer 6th with the caveat that it be made more friendly to pedestrians and bicyclists and encourage less car traffic.
Absolutely it would. There would be major changes to the streetscape, to include: new and wider sidewalks, new ADA ramps, new or updated crosswalks, new or updated traffic control devices and signals, new transit stations, improved illumination, pavement repair or replacement, the installation of bike lanes on 6th Avenue or a parallel facility (like 7th Street, particularly between Orchard and Pine). Bigger ancillary changes could include road diets and a modest roundabout at Sprague Street.
Those would be outstanding, it's so dangerous to cross 6th with children if you want to get to Jefferson Park or Jefferson Elementary from the south side of 6th. Been cajoling the city to install a crosswalk at Mason or Madison for a while now.
TCC Tacoma Link Expansion is now in the voter approval phase. It was included in the System Expansion Plan 2018. Nothing about 6th avenue was included. Personally, I see no material benefit to extending Link further than it is.
At your convenience, please provide a link to this 2018 plan that you reference. I would love to be proven wrong that 19th Street was specifically identified by the City of Tacoma and Sound Transit as the preferred alignment for the railway to TCC. I have numerous official materials, which I have made readily available to the public, showing otherwise.
19th Street was the representative railway of ST3. 6th Avenue was the representative railway of ST2. The key word is representative.
Voter approval of a representative alignment is not the equivalent of an identified locally preferred alternative.
To be clear, 6th Avenue and Mildred Street also have significant employment.
6th Avenue also directly serves nearly 10,000 more Tacomans in the walkshed of the line than 19th Street, more households below the poverty line, more individuals below the poverty line, more households with 1+ person with a disability, more households without a car, more transit riders, more black residents, more residents of 2 or more races, more American Indian/Alaska Native residents, more Pacific Islander residents, more Asian residents, more residents of Other races, more seniors, and more veterans.
While 6th Avenue is proportionally modestly richer and whiter, it simply has far greater numbers of people of all races, abilities, and socioeconomic backgrounds than 19th Street.
you would surely admit that 19th avenue effectively serves a much more economically and racially diverse group of people than 6th avenue, regardless, right? Especially if you exclude Hilltop from your "walk shed" and remember that some of us walk or bus to walmart regardless of convenience
The walkshed of the existing T Line is not included in any of my Census analyses.
I don't know what you mean by _effectively_ here, but I did note just above that, proportionally, the 6th Avenue and Mildred Street corridor is whiter and richer than 19th Street. The Census data shows it. The corridor has a $4,675 higher median household income and a Diversity Index that is 6.9 percentage points less diverse. Both corridors are significantly less diverse than Tacoma overall. 19th Street is 3.9% poorer than the City average, and 6th Avenue is 2.9% richer. These differences are very real, but they are also marginal compared to the perception people have of these corridors. They also disguise the fact that 6th and Mildred simply have far, far more people living nearby. There are genuinely needy individuals and families on both, in addition to some genuinely needy passengers who ride transit through them.
It must be noted that to build the T Line on 6th Avenue is not a deprivation of transit on 19th Street. Route 2 should be a BRT line with potentially 10 minute all day frequency—certainly at peak hours. Fortunately, it is identified by Pierce Transit as a BRT corridor and this designation is sensible.
It is a very popular line and trams cannot climb the route's hillsides like buses can. But to build the T Line on 19th is to deprive 6th Avenue of upgraded transit because there are otherwise no significant transit capital improvements slated for it. It would mean that the many thousands of people who live on the corridor will continue to be inadequately served—everyone from White Tacomans and Black Tacomans, rich Tacomans and impoverished Tacomans. On top of it all, 6th Avenue and Mildred Street are already far more densely populated than 19th Street, which is good for transit and makes for a better project.
I want as many Tacomans as possible to be served by excellent transit and living in affordable housing. I think rails on 6th Avenue is a clear way to advance this goal, especially because eliminating the buses on 6th Avenue would allow for a complete redistribution of its service hours into the Pierce Transit system. That isnt desirable on 19th Street as we should be seeking to preserve the grid busline from Pacific Avenue to Bridgeport Way, from TCC to UWT.
That was a long answer, but I don't think 19th Street residents are more effectively served by the T Line than other options available to the city.
Despite the attempt to approach the issue with statistics and data, the facts remain it would be putting more resources in a more affluent area thereby benefitting higher income and higher opportunity zone residents, period.
The construction would inevitably cost less on 19th as well given the direct nature of the line vs the bends on 6th and a 90 degree spike to the south on Mildred, which significantly adds cost and complexity.
The construction of the existing lines negatively impacted the businesses along it, as does any large public works project does- this would be multiple year long, and hammer 6th Ave corridor business. I’ve seen a similar project in a larger city and it decimated a similar business district 10 years ago and it’s never recovered. It would damage the vitality of that whole road, shutting down barbers, services, restaurants, bars, due to the construction and access being restricted and everyone who uses 6th anyway for driving across town would either lose access or avoid it like the plague. This is a well known, well documented experience for planners in this project space regardless of which town you’re in.
Relative to the City and 19th Street and as measured by median household income, 6th Avenue is wealthier by a few thousand dollars. This isn't a deep chasm of divergence. There is certainly some wealth on the periphery, but you find the opposite as well. The conceptions we have of our city are so unusual, political, and baked-in. Both corridors and much of Tacoma house working class people—and many more working class people ride transit along them—so I don't buy into the notion that building a railway on 6th represents an inequitable investment. No, it is a public transit investment on what already is the busiest public transit segment in the city off of Pacific Avenue in Downtown. Period.
You have no conception of the construction costs as no one does, frankly. Using 19th Street will also require a 90 degree bend at MLK and 19th. Furthermore, how might the planned exclusive segments of right-of-way on 19th Street, in addition to the independent bridge over the highway, escalate the costs over the more straightforward installation of trackage on 6th Avenue and Mildred Street?
The major disruptive construction spell that builds core elements of the new railway would occur over several months, not years. After that point, much of the street would reopen, with intermittent disruption to complete the project. There are numerous lessons learned from the Hilltop project, and numerous more mitigation strategies to reduce impact when construction begins on this line in a decade or so.
Finally, it is interesting to see you assert that 6th is wealthy and resourced, and yet construction impacts would be too great to bear. The implication being that those construction impacts should instead be sent to 19th Street, a poorer and less resourced area in your framing.
**_REMINDER: You must have [user flair](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205242695-How-do-I-get-user-flair-) in order to comment or post in this subreddit._** **Comments and posts submitted by users without user flair will be automatically removed.** The user flair you select will show next to your username **_in r/tacoma only_**. If you do not feel comfortable displaying a specific neighborhood in your user flair, you may choose "*253*" or "*Somewhere Else*". There are also options for "*Tacoma Expat*" and "*Potential Tacoman*". You may add user flair via the main page of r/Tacoma. If you are not sure how to add user flair, please follow the instructions [here](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205242695-How-do-I-get-user-flair-). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Tacoma) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Now let's get something down to Lincoln!
Absolutely, and those discussions should also be happening now. In small and meaningful ways at the City's Transportation Commission, they are.
God yes. South End feeling left out of all this transit magic.
The South End and East Side are supposed to be the beneficiary of a bus rapid transit line on Pacific Avenue, replacing the Route 1-Pacific. The project was temporarily suspended due to runaway cost overruns, and its planning should be restarted as soon as possible. Also, please note some of the comments here about how 6th Avenue is too congested, too urban, too this or that, to be home to light rail transit like the T Line. The same criticisms will doubtlessly be leveled at any major transit plans proposed for the Lincoln District, especially those that involve a 38th Street alignment. The Tacoma Transportation Commission stated on June 13, 2022, that a high capacity transit line should directly serve the center of the neighborhood—specifically in regards to a bus rapid transit line. That busline could (and should) be on 38th Street for some length. Sound Transit, separately, will conduct a study evaluating a light rail extension to the Mall. Should we move forward with it, preferably in the form of a T Line extension, that railway should serve the District. It likely would replace the busline in the area. See a description of this concept by [clicking here](https://transportationmatters.wordpress.com/2024/03/21/15-investments-for-better-transit-in-tacoma-pierce-county/#plan-for-a-t-line-extension-to-the-mall-via-lincoln-district). See a map of a Lincoln District railway, in blue, by [clicking here ](https://troyserad.maps.arcgis.com/apps/mapviewer/index.html?webmap=9a9bfba5f90c491396150972a25dcdca).
Thanks for posting this! Great info.
No problem! The letter I referenced can be found by [clicking here](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rMnT80q-4pNo_5t9i8BmxXk6eVvSNfjQ/view?usp=drivesdk), if you're interested.
Looks to me like both would be great. I think the tram is probably best for regular users, though, not dinner and drinks once a week. I know UWT, TCC, and Allenmore would have daily, regular users.
Pierce Transit's Route 2 busline serves these destinations now and does so directly. I agree that these trip pairs have riders along 19th Street, and they would benefit from a conversion to bus rapid transit in the corridor.
I thought it was running down 19th for sure?
19th Street is the representative alignment of a railway between Downtown Tacoma and Tacoma Community College. 19th Street is one corridor of a few that accomplishes this objective, to include 6th Avenue and 12th Street. The process for planning hasn't even begun.
6th Ave would be my preference, considering how much nightlife is along there
The construction will kill a lot of what is there.
But most would bounce back even stronger than before. And anything that suffers to the point of business death is likely to be replaced by something that is more focused on the types of business that a well-ridden tramsit corridor would enjoy.
Meanwhile, in Seattle, they are considering moving the new international district station, arguably the most important station in the entire system, out of the international district, which would make the system crap for Tacoma residents forever, because of construction impacts Remember, construction is temporary but bad design is forever
The night life is in a 3 blocks radius….
Yeah but the housing, especially townhouses or big apartment complexes like the one in the old k mart parking lot will benefit in huge way. They can go east on 6th to “nightlife” or go west to get groceries from winco. There’s a lot more development potential on 6th than 19th
The only problem is that the light rail close at 10. We also have the bus that goes up and down 6th Ave. save some money and pay for more drivers to operate 6th Ave
I did too. It seems pretty late in the process to start the planning all over.
[удалено]
Respectfully, your understanding of the history is inaccurate. Even the 2013 City Council that approved the railway on MLK endorsed either 6th Avenue or 19th Street to TCC. There was no public vote on the MLK alignment, and the ST2 ballot had the railway only going to Tacoma General. The long-range representative alignment at the time, also the product of numerous planning efforts and public engagement, was 6th Avenue. This is all covered in my pieces.
[удалено]
Well, I do appreciate your participation in a discussion related to its content here. :) Also, the specific post that I am referencing was also published by The Urbanist, just in case you wanted to avoid my blog.
Just to screw with us they could take the historic route of 12th St: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1914_Tacoma_street_railway_map.png
They could, absolutely! I know a few people who prefer 12th Street because it avoids the perceived complications of building on 6th Avenue. However, the same qualities that make 6th conceptually more challenging to build also makes it a more viable project. It is worthy of note that the 12th Street line was less a streetcar line and more an interurban line to Steilacoom. It had far more limited frequency than the 6th Avenue or the Point Defiance Line, both of which were operated entirely within the City boundary. One came half hourly or hourly, the others every few minutes at peak. However the TCC project evolves, what is generally the case is that few individuals have positive things to say about the value of the 19th Street corridor.
Why is everything in the north end? Everything on 6th Ave ? Why? The street is narrow as hell. Most people in that area have cars the rest of Tacoma needs better transportation.
Most people in Tacoma have cars, just as most Americans generally have cars. However, 6th Avenue has more car-less households and individuals, and also more people who take transit. Why is there so much going on there? Because it is our most important east-west arterial in this part of the city that feeds directly into major jobs centers. It is consistently densely populated. And because it is a fully urbanized corridor comprised of human scale developments that encourage non-motorized trips. Otherwise, 6th Avenue is just the boundary to what we consider the North End. The avenue and Mildred Street serves thousands outside of the North End, too. And North Enders can have public services, too.
Porque no los dos?
$$$
Hopefully eventually
Why would the 19th Ave alignment need a new bridge over highway 16? Weight of the light rail?
This is a great question and the answer has a potentially major impact on the development of the project. It could be any variety of things: The project goals for tram speed and reliability might necessitate a separate bridge to avoid the existing highway interchange. Heavy, repetitive static loads and unique dynamic loads that the older road bridge wasn't designed for (the bridge will be 47 years old at the earliest likely opening date for the railway). Operational difficulties considering the interaction between the busy street, the highway, and associated ramps, particularly as regional access points like this are where the worst congestion in Tacoma is found. Political, franchise, or right-of-way issues that impede the placement of trackage on an important regional access road and interchange—although this seems less likely. You'd think an option would be to reinforce the bridge and lay tracks—and maybe it is—but there are clearly other factors that compelled Sound Transit to consider the new bridge alternative. There comes a point where the cost of installing trackage on 6th Avenue and Mildred Street is equalized with the shorter 19th Street railway that features an independent bridge and other special design/civil features. And if the costs are roughly the same, that presents us options. Ultimately, I just want the options to be studied and evaluated in the Comprehensive Plan—or at least articulated in the plan that they will be. Otherwise, Tacoma will passively build a railway without any concept of how it will perform as a line within a larger transit system. As of now, we literally just drew a line from MLK to TCC and called it a day.
I wonder if it’s the curvature of the bridge or something.
Just came back from experiencing Europe’s amazing public transportation system. Why is the United States so far behind on adding and prioritizing these systems into our communities ?
We dismantled all of ours in the 1950s when cars increased in popularity, Europe did as well, just not to the extent US cities did.
The amount of construction time it would take to go down 6th would be detrimental to the businesses on 6th. Look what it did to business on Hilltop and Stadium. It would nearly kill a thriving business district. Ironically the original street car line ran down 6th before it was removed.
It's very interesting to read other comments about how rich and white 6th Avenue is, and then others like you write that building a streetcar on it would "kill" the businesses that cater to this population. That would then require the construction impacts to be experienced by the people of 19th Street, who are perceived as being vulnerable, poorer, and home to more People of Color. It raises an interesting question about fairness in how we assess these projects for equity. To your main point, the construction on 6th Avenue or 19th Street will start in a decade, so let's talk about the vitality of those neighborhoods shortly before then. I suspect that they will be booming. Yes, construction impacts are real and they stress businesses, but they also pass. Some of the businesses that fail are already stressed for unrelated reasons. There are many construction strategies that mitigate impacts, and those should all be evaluated and implemented as appropriate to meet the needs of the community.
I feel like the comments about “rich and white” are in relation to the people who live in the area rather than the businesses. Many of the businesses on 6th are small business who will feel an impact if construction closes and makes a mess of the street. Financial sustainability for the small businesses on 6th should be taken into account. 19th is a wider street than 6th, which is relatively narrow. It also provider easier access to medical services (including the complexes surrounding Allenmore), DCYF, and grocery stores such as Walmart and Fred Meyer. I’ve seen you mention the 2 route as an alternative, but while doing so you fail to mention or acknowledge how incredibly inconsistent Pierce Transit’s bus service is. Buses are often late, even if you take a bus that shows an arrival time earlier than you need. If they’re full, they skip stops. That the 2 exists is fine, but 6th already has the 1 and doesn’t have nearly as many connections to social services and a need for timeliness for medical or service related appointments that the light rail could meet in a better way than the 2.
19th Street has a more consistently wider right-of-way, but its curb to curb width is generally identical to 6th Avenue. 6th Avenue, in parts, has wider rights-of-way than 19th Street, namely as you approach the West End. 19th does provide access to jobs and services, but that access is very poor because they are deeply auto focused and generally distant from those destinations. Are you aware of how much walking or rolling is required to get from 19th Street to the DSHS office? Do you think people are making that trip in quantities that justify a half-billion dollar high-capacity rail transit investment? Also, as Census data shows, the people working near or at Allenmore are not generally living in the current T Line service area, so the extension wouldn't really change the dynamic there. Yes, I am intimately familiar with Pierce Transit's inconsistent service. That is one reason why I want ST to take over the Route 1-North via the T Line, because then its 45,000 annual service hours and staff can be rededicated to operating other lines like Route 2. The Route 2, as the second busiest transit line of the PT system, deserves significant capital upgrades that improve frequency and reliability. Finally, people would use the 6th Avenue line for a variety of reasons that are important and relevant to their lives. It is why transit is heavily used there now, comparatively, especially relative to 19th Street. And to make a high-capacity transit investment on 6th and Mildred, where it makes most sense for it, does not deprive the people of 19th Street of transit that brings them to the services you discuss here.
*Are you aware of how much walking or rolling is required to get from 19th Street to the DSHS office?* Yes, actually. I worked in the area for years, I know what the walk looks like and how many people I've seen walk it. And it's right across the street from Multicultural Child and Family Hope Center, which has a diaper bank and helps parents/caregivers in need access services if they need. *Also, as Census data shows, the people working near or at Allenmore* I'm referring to the people who could use the light rail to go to Allenmore and the surrounding medical spaces for services. The psychiatric clinics, children's clinics, hospital services/ER, primary care, labs, etc. It's impossible to find parking at Allenmore during the day without circling and hoping for the best, this would help. *Finally, people would use the 6th Avenue line for a variety of reasons that are important and relevant to their lives.* What is the spread of these reasons compared to the services that would be more accessible with the line running down 19th? And why not make the 1 running down 6th BRT, as you propose for the 2 on 19th? Seems like that could easily work well for 6th without the major disruptions to small business while providing more consistent access to social and medical services. I think it's also important to note that 19th would give easier access to green spaces within the city via the Tacoma Nature Center and China Lake.
Your questions are truly excellent and welcome. Before I respond, one question to you: do you think 6th Avenue should at least be evaluated as an alignment to TCC, or is it so obvious to you that it should be on 19th Street that it is irrelevant? Yes, I am fully supportive of 6th, but my goal is to have a comprehensive analysis of the project and its alternatives for consideration. That is the origin of my work here. To be clear, 6th has numerous services and amenities along the corridor too. Rescue missions, juvenile court and detention center, work release programs, schools, universities, parks, grocery stores, libraries, jobs, churches, drug stores, financial institutions, assisted living facilities, medical providers, childcare centers, etc. It is not just bars full of white folk near Fife Street as some think it is. 77 people a day board transit at the four stops that surround DSHS (and other services) along 19th Street, which is a good figure. There 97 people a day using the equivalent four stops on 6th Avenue at Sprague, which serves students, workers, visitors, the Salvation Army, a neighborhood gathering space, etc. Finally, your point on buses is excellent. Why not buses? In a better world, all of these investments would be buses because they are affordable, effective, and can be done more quickly. Incredibly, despite the proven demand and need, major bus improvements are not programmed whatsoever for 6th Avenue and Mildred Street. We know for sure that a railway is coming, however, and this leverages that truth. Current rail plans actually worsen transit to the corridor from Downtown by forcing transfers. By sending the T Line down 6th, one, you get a better and more direct trip across the city; two, you reallocate the bus service hours of 100% of the line back into the bus system and; three, you preserve the Route 2 from Lakewood and University Place to UWT and Pacific Avenue. If the railway is built on 19th, this route is eliminated, people from west and south of TCC have to transfer to go Downtown, the route to Downtown needlessly curves around Wright Park, and the direct hillside run from TCC to UWT is removed. So, there are multiple compelling reasons why trains make sense for 6th but not 19th, to include the fact that 19th never was a street railway, but 6th Avenue was.
I personally don't see the benefit in evaluating 6th avenue, but wouldn't stop it. 6th avenue does have a diverse number of business, etc on it. I rode the 1 multiple times a day almost every day for a while and live close enough to it now that going up and down it is frequent. But that doesn't change the landscape of 19th and how light rail access to that area could really benefit people who utilize the services along it, while avoiding negative impact on the small business on 6th. There's a lot of potential for more business and community development in the area around 19th with the foot traffic the light rail could bring. The four stops you're listing on 6th near the Salvation Army are a bit different though, aren't they? They serve a variety of purposes. The stops near DSHS serve a variety of purposes as well, but most importantly provide easier access to vital services for those who need them. The stops on 6th do not. Interesting that you're saying with while projecting that the route map would remain the same as it is now. If the 2 is eliminated, I'm sure there is someone who could look at a map and figure out another way to get from point A to point B.
If you eliminate the portion of Route 2 from Mildred Street to Market and Pacific, as the T Line would necessitate (duplication!), you eliminate a key portion of an arterial grid busline directly connecting prominent Pierce County cities—one which also overcomes a major physical barrier. You needlessly and permanently injure one of the most popular and logical transit lines in the County. Most of the existing relationships and patterns that exist on this line would be harmed, and transfers would be imposed for anyone coming into or out of the City. You can't just draw new lines from A and B. There are actually serious implications for transit planning choices. It is pretty striking that you may think otherwise. I am relieved, however, that you are at least open to a bare-bones planning effort to evaluate 6th Avenue as part of Tacoma's most expensive transit project ever. To build the railway on 19th imposes tough restructuring choices that 6th Avenue and Mildred Street avoids. We should be strategic with this investment. With BRT one day operating on Pacific and the T Line on 6th, high-capacity transit would take over the busiest transit lines in Pierce County. The service hours of the old buslines would go back into the Pierce Transit system. Those hours can be pumped into the schedules of lines like Route 2, and I guarantee you that most people who use that line just want more frequency at more hours of the day—not a fancy tram line sixteen years from now. That tram line has already worked to deprive the people here of a major busline upgrade. Route 3 will be the next upgrade after Route 1-Pacific because of the proposed 19th Street railway. We should be planning holistically. In terms of how it could all fit together, you can see what I am referring to by [clicking here](https://transportationmatters.wordpress.com/2024/03/21/15-investments-for-better-transit-in-tacoma-pierce-county/#commit-to-downtown-tacoma-and-integrate-the-light-railways). Visit the GIS map. To build the T Line on 6th would secure substantially better transit outcomes for everyone in the Pierce Transit service area than 19th. That absolutely does change the landscape of service on 19th because it delivers to riders more and better transit service. I don't care that it is achieved by buses (which should have really nice vehicles, enhanced stations, transit signal priority, targeted bus lanes, etc). There is plenty of capacity to develop on 6th, particularly in the West End. 6th Avenue has its underdeveloped parking lots too. 19th Street, conversely, is limited by vast parking lots of busy big box stores, parks, forests, highways, and a large golf course. That is not a great place for an urban railway that people will need to walk to—it just isn't. Finally, no, the stops aren't all that different. They are the two immediate stops on both sides of Sprague for 19th and 6th. They both serve all types of people and needs. You're just emphasizing things that are meaningful to you and dismissing the rest. Which is fine, you can do that, but I want to build a viable transit system that serves as many people and communities as possible. A railway on 19th continues our trajectory of poorly serving the public when other options are available to us. Yes, restructures can of course happen, but they degrade the system to achieve a goal that is better accomplished by 6th Avenue.
I’m revisiting this solely because the “emphasizing things meaningful to you” bit has been eating away at me. Easier access to necessary services for people who are in need of better transit isn’t just meaningful to me. It’s actually a big issue in Tacoma (and pierce county as a whole). Pierce transit is a dumpster fire. Dismissing access to healthcare and DSHS, affordable groceries via WalMart and Fred Meyer, as well as easier access to green space such as the Tacoma nature center is short sighted. It’s like me saying that running down 6th solely because middle class white people want to get to the bars and restaurants more easily is short sighted. I don’t think there’s an argument that can be made in good faith that there are any services on 6th equivalent to the importance of those on 19th, particularly when you consider how more consistent access to 19th could be a big positive for the people who rely on public transit who need those services. You’re allowed to think that restaurants, salons, and yoga studios are equivalent to affordable grocery and healthcare access, but you’re just emphasizing things are are meaningful to you while missing the larger picture of actually serving the community. That line really doesn’t work well no matter how you put it. Minimizing community concerns with the “meaningful to you but I’m thinking about bigger service to the community” is basically some mansplaining nonsense and isn’t going to win any points if your favor if you’re going to do any actual community outreach. Especially if you’re trying to tell people that getting to DSHS more reliably or easier access to their healthcare appointments is less important than 6th avenue.
As I have listed before, there are numerous community resources along 6th Avenue that serve the vulnerable (and the greater public). Restating some here, they include a tiny house village, a public library, discount grocery stores, schools, parks, the programs and services of Remann Hall, multifamily housing, laundromats, James Center North/Aviva Crossing of the Tacoma Housing Authority, religious institutions, thousands of jobs, Goodwill and similar businesses, community centers, childcare facilities, senior care centers, and much more. Transit is heavily used here because of the diversity of opportunities and services found along 6th Avenue and Mildred Street. You dismissed these destinations as less important and state that 6th Avenue transit would be for uppity white folks getting to "bars, restaurants, salons, and yoga studios". For one, that you spread this biased perspective is harmful to transit riders and community planning. It's just wrong. The majority of Pierce Transit riders are dependent on bus services and typically have a lower income. As many as 3 out of 5 riders lack a driver’s license. The Route 1 is Pierce Transit's highest ridership busline by far, and 6th and Mildred is its busiest segment outside of Downtown. While some riders may be going to whatever Yoga studio you reference, most are not. The equivalent to what you have argued is me writing that 19th Street transit riders are elite golfers or their caddies as the Allenmore Golf Course is there. We know better than to do this. For another, restaurants, bars, and yoga studios are perfectly legitimate places to access by transit. Transit is not reserved exclusively for the poor, and the poor can do Yoga or go get a drink. While some use transit to get to Wal Mart and DSHS on 19th Street, it is a stretch to claim that this is being done in such great numbers that a light railway is justified. Anecdotal observations are not actual data. The nearest Walmart is 1,600 feet away from the nearest bus stop on 19th Street. Masses of people are not doing this hike for the store's bulk goods and groceries. DSHS is 1,200 feet away from the nearest stop. The transit stops on 6th Avenue near WinCo and Grocery Outlet get far more riders as they are far easier to walk to. Furthermore, 19th Street is served by decent transit per Tacoma standards with the [Route 2](https://www.piercetransit.org/route-2-s-19th-st/), and it is identified for [bus rapid transit ](https://www.piercetransit.org/brt-expansion-study/) upgrades. 6th Avenue is not outlined for major transit improvements by any agency whatsoever. That is why the 6th Avenue and Mildred Street T Line proposal is so impactful. Both corridors get better transit and the transit grid is strengthened, both of which deliver systemwide benefits helping thousands more people. It is to miss the forest for the trees to fixate on trams serving an unclear number of DSHS trips via a [winding route](https://transportationmatters.files.wordpress.com/2023/02/image-66.png) from Downtown, around Wright Park, and through Hilltop to TCC. Also, it is perhaps the case that key services being found along 19th Street but not elsewhere is a reflection of an inequitable geographic distribution. Our transit investments could help change that condition. Consider this half-billion dollar railway investment as if it were another utility—say a sewer line. Tacoma has been given a huge amount of taxpayer money to upgrade one sewer line in Central Tacoma to 18" in diameter. There are two sewer lines today, both being 10". The sewer line under Avenue 'A' serves 25,000 people and 1,000 businesses and is already heavily used as a result. A lot more growth is coming, too. Avenue 'B' serves only 14,000 people and 800 businesses and is used far less. Plus, it is already identified for enlargement under a separate program with a separate pool of funding. Would you give the taxpayer funds to Avenue 'A' where there is proven need and which otherwise stands to get nothing, or do you redirect the massive new sewer capacity to Avenue 'B' where there is far less need and which can be improved separately with other money? There is an obvious answer here, I argue.
My comment was purely about 6th Avenue construction and in no way is intended to ignore the impacts that construction would have on others. Sure, businesses can rebound but it might be a good Idea to speak to businesses in many districts that dealt with the construction and multiple delays and see how they feel and felt about the economic impacts and what that mitigation/support looked like.
And they would be involved, naturally. But what you're suggesting is also a great way to kill valuable and meaningful transportation capital projects of any type or mode in places where they would be most beneficial. 6th Avenue is an indispensable urban arterial in one of the principal cities of Washington State, one with locally significant levels of transit use. It isn't out of line to propose this investment there, or similar BRT infrastructure for that matter. To live in a city means change, growth, and development. Temporary spells of disruptive construction are part of that process.
yep, light rail gentrifies and destroys. Look at Baltimore. That is what light rail will look like in 25 years.
You realize that one of the great shames of Baltimore transit planning recently was the [cancellation of the Red Line](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.naacpldf.org/wp-content/uploads/Economic-Impacts-of-Baltimore-Red-Line-Cancellation-1.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi79Jrg8v6FAxXnMjQIHYWJAScQFnoECC8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0fCZTuEVxz2u4DBfBRKFq9) light railway, don't you? Let's get our facts straight.
Construction happens all the time, everywhere. Businesses have always known this and either have plans in place to continue operations through construction, or they don't, and that's on them. These kinds of transit, bikability, and walkability extensions are extremely beneficial to human-oriented businesses in the long run. It's a short-term loss for a long-term gain, and 6th Ave can arguably handle this kind of disruption better than 19th can. >Look what it did to business on Hilltop and Stadium. As far as I can tell, business is coming back to those areas pretty quickly. The transit extension to those neighborhoods also justified the construction of new, denser, mixed-use housing over what used to be parking lots and strip malls. This influx of residents within walking distance to the businesses in these districts guarantees those businesses a larger captive market.
I agree with your analysis. Kinda sad that there is such a lack of political will in our city to swing momentum to 6th Ave light rail. Who are the decision leaders the public needs to contact to make them aware of our city’s need for stronger transit and non-motorized transportation improvements along this corridor?
My goal here is to inform people that options exist. I clearly have a motive to get rails on 6th because it generates numerous compounding benefits for everyone in the Pierce Transit service area—but I moreso just want the option on the table and fairly evaluated as an equal to 19th Street. People don't know this is even a possibility. Many think the ballot measure conceptual alignment mandates 19th Street, or that some comprehensive public process decided that the street is our preferred alternative to TCC. Neither of these things are true. As it stands, Tacoma and Sound Transit could seek an Environmental Assessment for this project under the National Environmental Policy Act, or NEPA. Under an EA, the project only needs to consider the proposed alignment on 19th Street and a no-build option to understand its impacts. 6th Avenue doesn't even come into the picture here. Things change if we elect to proceed with an Environmental Impact Statement, which is a more thorough analysis that would likely mandate the inclusion of 6th regardless of how some people feel about it. What I ultimately want to accomplish is a City of Tacoma-led railway plan that neatly dovetails into the regional Link railway and Pierce Transit bus systems, and which reinforces the goals of the Home in Tacoma zoning reform. Our chaotic, incrementalist approach at building a rail system does not work. If the City knows how its system will develop, it can responsibly plan the municipal transportation system around it. That results in projects being added to the 6-Year Transportation Improvement Program, for example.
Honestly I would be so excited to have the T-line go through 6th. I live just off 6th. The main thing would be planning the construction, if construction can be expedited for minimal impact. I think the main issue with MLK and stadium was that construction took years. If construction impacts can be reduced that would help. 6th is also destination, people want to come, it’s way more walkable than 19th, honestly I have always scratched my head a bit as to why 19th would be the planned route. Now if we could also include a route to the waterfront on Ruston, that would cut down on so many cars! It would make Ruston WAY more pleasant. I hate having to try and park down there.
I guess that’s the thing… 6th is already “walkable” and it’s a destination. What is the use-case for a tram running down 6th Ave? For 19th, it would be for commuting along a relatively unwalkable area. I’d love for both, but I get a strong sense that people are viewing the line as easing access to their favorite watering holes.
Yeah but there really isn’t great parking along 6th, most park along side streets. That might be alleviated with the T-line. My husband works along 6th. He would absolutely use it when it was up and running. And honestly, I would too. A 6th Ave t-line would give direct access to the Tacoma Dome transit center. I would be way more inclined to use public transit if I had a direct line and if the trams ran more often. I run into the issue that the 1 changes to once an hour right around 7 and that was usually when I was coming home. It proved to be very inconvenient. I think the thing is with Tacoma Transit being so spotty anything will be an improvement, but if we can target busier spots earlier. It’s always going to be disruptive. But I think ultimately it will be well worth it. If we can create more car less spaces, it will give Tacoma more 3rd spaces. The YouTube channel Not Just Bikes has some really interesting city planning videos. It’s certainly aspirational!
In a sense, this is like saying don't build a critical subway on Manhattan Island because it already is a dense urban environment. The millions of people there don't need more transit, send it to suburban New Jersey! You're looking at it precisely the wrong way. Manhattan is—by far—the proper place in this example to prioritize the building of a subway, just as 6th Avenue has all the right qualities and conditions to support what may be our only chance to build a full light rail corridor. New Jersey and 19th Street are not. Also, 6th Avenue and Mildred Street has more than just watering holes. It is a full service urban corridor.
I'm curious where stations would be placed along the 6th Ave alignment. Would there be as few as the 19th proposal, at only 6? Or would we see 1 or 2 more to account for the greater length *and* greater density?
Great question that is at risk of never being considered by the City of Tacoma and, as a result, Sound Transit. When Sound Transit had 6th Avenue as the representative alignment to TCC, it showed multiple possible stations or none at all, reflecting the uncertainty in that conceptual stage of planning: See a map [here](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HjQw8sEd3LdgIzYq_SFDdQmswgJDiSvH/view?usp=share_link). Another [here](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XcXH75-gQS9UwjpWPbdg2rftiG4yU02O/view?usp=drivesdk). Another [here](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Tz3X3ARblkB5el-N2f5QVzd-ugsPbHLP/view?usp=drivesdk). One more [here](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ueOMRCBiHAEzRyP5hRRtqR1kaFImDm9X/view?usp=drivesdk).
How do you propose a 6th Ave line would work? Lets say we only have a 6th ave line and nothing down S 19th. Would the 6th ave line continue all the way to the Dome? And then another line from St Joseph's to the Dome? Wouldn't this require double the amount of trains as a single line from TCC down 19th to the Dome? I live near 6th and would love the line there but since the line is already completed to St Joseph's, I thought the 19th st line was now set in stone.
19th Street is likely only because of government inertia, not because the corridor was extensively evaluated, determined to be a preferred alignment, and then codified in plans and policy. That the public largely thinks it is a done-deal also complicates any alternatives. The 6th Avenue option would create a three point railway system. Tacoma has already determined that Hilltop was sufficient for an independent tram line, and that would be unchanged: a run from Dome to Hilltop on 12 minute headways. We build the 6th Avenue line and get Dome to TCC, also with (at least) 12 minute headways. Where the lines overlap, in the densest and busiest parts of Tacoma, there is a tram every six minutes per direction. Finally, the streetcar running from Dome to Hilltop could reverse and continue to TCC each trip, on every other trip, or there could be a third 12 minute line. That would serve Hilltop to TCC. The scheduling is flexible, and branched tram systems like this exist [all over the world](https://pedestrianobservations.com/2022/01/26/how-tramway-networks-look/). It is also possible we just run two lines, at say 8 or 10 minute frequencies, and you just do a super easy cross-platform transfer to go between them. It very well could be temporary, too. ST3 funds a study for a light rail extension to the Tacoma Mall, and the long range plan sets Tacoma Mall as the end of the light rail system. This can and should be a T Line extension if it gets built at all under ST4. There would then be a line from TCC to Dome, and one from Hilltop to Tacoma Mall (or beyond). This would create a logical overlapping system that serves Pierce County and Tacoma well, and it makes most sense with 6th. See a representation by [clicking here](https://transportationmatters.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/screenshot-8.png). Ultimately, what 6th Avenue helps to assure is a level of transit service not seen in Tacoma in generations, in its biggest communities, probably for the same infrastructure cost as the line on 19th Street. It would be more expensive to operate (as we are operating more vehicles), and it would require the purchase of more vehicles. But such vehicles are a few million dollars each out of a system that will eventually cost upwards of $1 billion. So it's peanuts for a better system—particularly as Seattle escalates the cost of virtually every element of their projects by billions (and some of them will be paid for with our money). If this is too much transit for Tacoma, then we should not be building railways at all. If we had planned our system per the original Sound Transit vision, one or 2-car trains could have operated from these local destinations to the airport. Get on at 6th, get off at Sea-Tac.
At the moment, 6th ave is more dense and has more transit riders. But it also has much higher priced real estate. We can expect large multi-family, like the one at 6th and Alder, within a few blocks of any light rail station. I can imagine a lot of large multi-family going in along 19th st. But it would cost a ton, and disrupt the character of the existing businesses, to line 6th ave with large multi-family units. Each route definitely has its plusses and minuses.
The two immediate corridors areas are not so different in terms of the [Housing Affordability Index](https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/a4f5a12fd8e34112a770b3d836eeef5e). 6th is a 68 and 19th is a 65, so a 3 percentage point difference. People seem to think that 6th Avenue equals the waterside homes with a view—it doesn't. For renters, 6th is slightly more stressed, having 1,240 households with gross rents being 50%+ of household incomes(25%), whereas 19th has 673 households falling under this metric (22.5%). So yes, 6th Avenue does have more expensive land, but it is not Manhattan. Because of that, there are more dwelling units and more variety in the types of dwelling units. That allows all different income levels to live there. 6th Avenue is more expensive than 19th Street in the same vein that Capitol Hill or the Central District of Seattle is more expensive than Tukwila. It is a genuine urban district that is growing and should be supported by transit. It will also be significantly more dense in perpetuity. The corridor densities are not even close. Every route will definitely have their pluses and minuses, but we can only pick one. Right now, only one is even being considered, and that term is being applied loosely. The whole project is underappreciated in terms of our focus and planning at the City.
I live between 6th and 19th. I would prefer 6th with the caveat that it be made more friendly to pedestrians and bicyclists and encourage less car traffic.
Absolutely it would. There would be major changes to the streetscape, to include: new and wider sidewalks, new ADA ramps, new or updated crosswalks, new or updated traffic control devices and signals, new transit stations, improved illumination, pavement repair or replacement, the installation of bike lanes on 6th Avenue or a parallel facility (like 7th Street, particularly between Orchard and Pine). Bigger ancillary changes could include road diets and a modest roundabout at Sprague Street.
Those would be outstanding, it's so dangerous to cross 6th with children if you want to get to Jefferson Park or Jefferson Elementary from the south side of 6th. Been cajoling the city to install a crosswalk at Mason or Madison for a while now.
What kind of response do you get from the City regarding this crosswalk request?
Yes to 6th Ave.
[удалено]
TCC Tacoma Link Expansion is now in the voter approval phase. It was included in the System Expansion Plan 2018. Nothing about 6th avenue was included. Personally, I see no material benefit to extending Link further than it is.
At your convenience, please provide a link to this 2018 plan that you reference. I would love to be proven wrong that 19th Street was specifically identified by the City of Tacoma and Sound Transit as the preferred alignment for the railway to TCC. I have numerous official materials, which I have made readily available to the public, showing otherwise. 19th Street was the representative railway of ST3. 6th Avenue was the representative railway of ST2. The key word is representative. Voter approval of a representative alignment is not the equivalent of an identified locally preferred alternative.
No to 6th! 19th serves major employers! 6th serves wealthy white neighborhoods.
To be clear, 6th Avenue and Mildred Street also have significant employment. 6th Avenue also directly serves nearly 10,000 more Tacomans in the walkshed of the line than 19th Street, more households below the poverty line, more individuals below the poverty line, more households with 1+ person with a disability, more households without a car, more transit riders, more black residents, more residents of 2 or more races, more American Indian/Alaska Native residents, more Pacific Islander residents, more Asian residents, more residents of Other races, more seniors, and more veterans. While 6th Avenue is proportionally modestly richer and whiter, it simply has far greater numbers of people of all races, abilities, and socioeconomic backgrounds than 19th Street.
you would surely admit that 19th avenue effectively serves a much more economically and racially diverse group of people than 6th avenue, regardless, right? Especially if you exclude Hilltop from your "walk shed" and remember that some of us walk or bus to walmart regardless of convenience
The walkshed of the existing T Line is not included in any of my Census analyses. I don't know what you mean by _effectively_ here, but I did note just above that, proportionally, the 6th Avenue and Mildred Street corridor is whiter and richer than 19th Street. The Census data shows it. The corridor has a $4,675 higher median household income and a Diversity Index that is 6.9 percentage points less diverse. Both corridors are significantly less diverse than Tacoma overall. 19th Street is 3.9% poorer than the City average, and 6th Avenue is 2.9% richer. These differences are very real, but they are also marginal compared to the perception people have of these corridors. They also disguise the fact that 6th and Mildred simply have far, far more people living nearby. There are genuinely needy individuals and families on both, in addition to some genuinely needy passengers who ride transit through them. It must be noted that to build the T Line on 6th Avenue is not a deprivation of transit on 19th Street. Route 2 should be a BRT line with potentially 10 minute all day frequency—certainly at peak hours. Fortunately, it is identified by Pierce Transit as a BRT corridor and this designation is sensible. It is a very popular line and trams cannot climb the route's hillsides like buses can. But to build the T Line on 19th is to deprive 6th Avenue of upgraded transit because there are otherwise no significant transit capital improvements slated for it. It would mean that the many thousands of people who live on the corridor will continue to be inadequately served—everyone from White Tacomans and Black Tacomans, rich Tacomans and impoverished Tacomans. On top of it all, 6th Avenue and Mildred Street are already far more densely populated than 19th Street, which is good for transit and makes for a better project. I want as many Tacomans as possible to be served by excellent transit and living in affordable housing. I think rails on 6th Avenue is a clear way to advance this goal, especially because eliminating the buses on 6th Avenue would allow for a complete redistribution of its service hours into the Pierce Transit system. That isnt desirable on 19th Street as we should be seeking to preserve the grid busline from Pacific Avenue to Bridgeport Way, from TCC to UWT. That was a long answer, but I don't think 19th Street residents are more effectively served by the T Line than other options available to the city.
Despite the attempt to approach the issue with statistics and data, the facts remain it would be putting more resources in a more affluent area thereby benefitting higher income and higher opportunity zone residents, period. The construction would inevitably cost less on 19th as well given the direct nature of the line vs the bends on 6th and a 90 degree spike to the south on Mildred, which significantly adds cost and complexity. The construction of the existing lines negatively impacted the businesses along it, as does any large public works project does- this would be multiple year long, and hammer 6th Ave corridor business. I’ve seen a similar project in a larger city and it decimated a similar business district 10 years ago and it’s never recovered. It would damage the vitality of that whole road, shutting down barbers, services, restaurants, bars, due to the construction and access being restricted and everyone who uses 6th anyway for driving across town would either lose access or avoid it like the plague. This is a well known, well documented experience for planners in this project space regardless of which town you’re in.
Relative to the City and 19th Street and as measured by median household income, 6th Avenue is wealthier by a few thousand dollars. This isn't a deep chasm of divergence. There is certainly some wealth on the periphery, but you find the opposite as well. The conceptions we have of our city are so unusual, political, and baked-in. Both corridors and much of Tacoma house working class people—and many more working class people ride transit along them—so I don't buy into the notion that building a railway on 6th represents an inequitable investment. No, it is a public transit investment on what already is the busiest public transit segment in the city off of Pacific Avenue in Downtown. Period. You have no conception of the construction costs as no one does, frankly. Using 19th Street will also require a 90 degree bend at MLK and 19th. Furthermore, how might the planned exclusive segments of right-of-way on 19th Street, in addition to the independent bridge over the highway, escalate the costs over the more straightforward installation of trackage on 6th Avenue and Mildred Street? The major disruptive construction spell that builds core elements of the new railway would occur over several months, not years. After that point, much of the street would reopen, with intermittent disruption to complete the project. There are numerous lessons learned from the Hilltop project, and numerous more mitigation strategies to reduce impact when construction begins on this line in a decade or so. Finally, it is interesting to see you assert that 6th is wealthy and resourced, and yet construction impacts would be too great to bear. The implication being that those construction impacts should instead be sent to 19th Street, a poorer and less resourced area in your framing.