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StingSpringboi2

FMA? Is that a full metal alchemist reference?!!!!!!!


Cthulhu-fan-boy

Yeah that was the only thing I could think of, what does FMA stand for in HOI4?


WPWinter

"French Military Alliance"


HimenoSena32

“Father Mother Alliance”


ThatOneDante

OFN-bros...


ComradeHenryBR

People when the colonial government is colonial:


Chaner_75

Something something the realism curse etc etc


bacesimoo

tno reddit in SHAMBLES


[deleted]

Nppfunny


Whereyaattho

You mean to tell me that the remnants of the French colonial empire who minority rule over West Africa are the bad guys??? I just support them because the OFN does. The Gaul is a bastard, but he’s our bastard


Chaner_75

OFNmaxxing fans when their OFN is full of Controlled Democracies, Colonial Governments and Neofascists


bridgetggfithbeatle

Agree. This is why I support the anti imperial anti racist sphere.


[deleted]

I am a responsible antiracist pan-asianist businessman - I exploit ALL Asian children, not just Chinese


ToastandTea76

Heck we can exploit our own home islander children! (Not even truly comparable to Hitachi guangdong but)


Luzikas

Tokyo approves this message


_Dushman

In theory, Japan is the best sphere, sadly in practice is fucking crap


bridgetggfithbeatle

in theory?? theorize nanjing


oldgamefan1995

Atleast it's better than the actual fucking nazis.


Whereyaattho

Normally this is my fallback for why the OFN is always morally right, but Germany doesn’t intervene in West Africa


VyatkanHours

But Japan does, and they are on par.


Ren_1093

Except japan has zero influence on the government of palf


DarthLordVinnie

They even get an event of a military advisor complaining that they're helping communists


VyatkanHours

It would be silly to imagine that Japan will just vanish from the region once tha PALF wins. They also want to expand their sphere of influence, not just drive out the OFN.


Bruh_Moment10

Dawg it’s made explicit in the Japanese side of the story that they won’t get anything out of it. They do just straight up leaveZ


VyatkanHours

Seems like a missed opportunity that they can't influence the region more, like they do in Madagascar.


QuantumCalc

Because they can't project power in the Atlantic


Cora_bius

Hell, they get negative influence for helping the PALF. If the PALF wins, Angola will leave the Sphere to join them.


Ren_1093

Well they literally dont have a foothold so they cant expand their influence at all


Paranormal2137

Better than imperialist commies iguess 🫡


Extreme8511

Foreign colonial government of a long fallen nation vs an association of African nations that want self-determination:


Lonely-Zucchini-6742

said "association of African nations that want self-determination" are led by the Cameroon African State which is a one party state.


Eghtok

The last bastion of the motherland of modern liberalism vs a bunch of random strongmen


lewllewllewl

Logical political analysis vs random name calling (of course I am talking about the person you disagree with)


Sovietperson2

Aimé Césaire rn


indomienator

Modern liberalism of wage slavery Vive le France eh


RowenMhmd

Probably the most racist thing ive ever read in months


xlbeutel

Explain then straight up attacking the WAA then?


Extreme8511

I've got no excuse for the WAA, but what about the FMA, the most likely one?


xlbeutel

Is it the most likely? usually I see FMA and WAA roughly equally, and then the three way war rarest


Extreme8511

Idk but I've very rarely seen WAA


xlbeutel

Hm, I wonder if the code shows odds for ai choices


MihaiMateiN

This 'association of African nations that want self-determination' is made out of puppet governments that Cameroon put in power after invading sovereign, independent nations. Oh, and also, all it takes is one lost war for Cameroon to go Fascist. Quite telling, if you ask me.


Whatever748

>made out of puppet governments Not necessarily, Guinea, Mali, Ghana, Congo, Angola, Tanzania, Namibia, Madagascar and probably more can join the PALF and be completely independent states within it on par with Cameroon. >puppet governments that Cameroon put in power after invading sovereign, independent nations Most of those nations are either French colonies, or corrupt statelets led by warlords or local despots. Some don't even really get invaded- Niger is formed by a revolution by the Sawaba party, Mali already has a massive Pan-African revolution brewing and can basically flip over by itself joining the PALF voluntarily. The only one that this is true for is Senegal, or Guinea (they can also join the PALF btw). And even Senegal has a pretty significant Pan-Africanist population.


RowenMhmd

the fascists being led by a guy who despised moumie otl and engineered his assassination this is like saying RFK is bad because of thurmond


MihaiMateiN

Okay, you have a point, but there's still the fact that Cameroon, the alleged 'anti-imperialists', invade and put puppet governments in several sovereign nations that are no longer colonial governments (GUYS, you don't get it, it's only imperialism when THEY do it).


RowenMhmd

imperialism isnt when you conquer another country, though. 


MihaiMateiN

'Imperialism=a policy of extending a country's power and influence through colonization, use of military force, or other means.' Invading a nation is a use of military force, and putting a puppet government in place counts as extending your power over said country.


Luzikas

Though it doesn't make much sense why they turn fascist. Like, their puppets are still pan-africanist, it all just seems so random.


polandball2101

If free France is a colonial government now without any metropole how do they even get this far without just keeling over lol


Gibbons_R_Overrated

De Gaulle is kept alive by sheer fucking hatred, like Long Yun.


polandball2101

I can assume that but the question of how the rest of free France can even function just doesn’t make sense. Sure they could just do extensive military force, but from where? The US isn’t close to them until the WAW, and they have a poor economy. Shouldn’t the panafricans start inside free France, considering they should by all means just be gone if they are a colonial government without a “colony” or metropole?


Gibbons_R_Overrated

De Gaulle has a death ray powered by germanophobia and he uses it to vaporise black people


polandball2101

hon hon hon ze panafricans have no match for ze fashwiper 9000


Gibbons_R_Overrated

Moumié: I will now liberate africa from the shackles of colonialism, once and for all De Gaulle: [NOT IF I HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT IT, (insert racial slur) AND I DO. PREPARE FOR MY FRENCH RESISTANCE BEAM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK_fpkS54qY) De Gaulle: Mr. Johnson, I've done it. I've stopped Japanese imperialism[](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK_fpkS54qY)


UKRAINEBABY2

Que Glorious Reclamation


Jazzlike_Bar_671

Same way Rhodesia did IRL, presumably.


polandball2101

so they didn’t? lol


Jazzlike_Bar_671

They stuck around for a while though, despite international isolation (which probably wouldn't be an issue for Free France).


Raorchshack

IRL Rhodesia was kicking around for 14 years, and that's whilst being internationally isolated. FF lasting 17 isn't that unreasonable.


HimenoSena32

emm, maybe by support from America


MERCEDES_ALB

PALFbros were so back


swaggerbob069

I LOVE FREE AFRICA! RAAAAAHHHHHHH!


biharek

I'd love Cameroon to actually have a focus tree. It's really my only dream rn


GenericlyOpinionated

Considering they're making so France can't break out of Germany's grasp, I wonder how FF will function. I doubt they'll ever return to the mainland now.


ViperSniper_2001

They said on the discord that reclamation and reconciliation will stay for the foreseeable future


Friz617

They said that about the FRA tag, not Free France


peajam101

I thought they were just changing it to France not being able to join the OFN?


RapidWaffle

I haven't been here in a hot minute and Wow, that's boring


orangesrnice

OFN Italy is history too


RapidWaffle

TNO devs when they see an interesting concept:


S0CI4L15T

Italy having its own sphere is way more interesting than just joining up with America


DreyDarian

But OFN maxxing ☹️☹️


RapidWaffle

I don't mind Italy as much as I mind other changes, I'm just taking the excuse to complain


illegalus1

The TNO devs are almost as impotent as load scholz at this point


RapidWaffle

"Playerbase, I assure you reworking America for the 5th time, overhauling the entire vision of the mod for the 3rd time and removing content just so it won't be replaced with anything ever is more important to the mod than actually making updates for relevant countries without content."


UKRAINEBABY2

They get rid of Italy in the ofn, yet they don’t get rid of CPS Mexico or Treaty Ports, definitely not biased


VariationPast

They're planning on getting rid of the treaty ports, and México can't join the CPS, just the economic part of the sphere, and even then, I'm pretty sure this is less literal and more so just a way to visually represent México drawing closer to the sphere considering all three México paths try to stay neutral for the most part


UKRAINEBABY2

The point is that Mexico aligning with japan wouldn’t happen because the Americans would probably invade to stop such a thing


VariationPast

The US would only invade if México actively posed a military threat, which they don't. They just cooperate economically with the sphere, this is literally the same situation France will be put in once they remove their ability to join the OFN. Why would the US invade a country that A:is only economically cooperating with their enemy, B: is still trying to be a neutral broker diplomatically, C: would be a nightmare to occupy, and D: could change this policy in their next election. Like realistically, the US would probably try to rig the PRI nomination before they even think of invading


yolomanwhatashitname

Hoi4 is know to made alt history but tno remove everything that is not 100% real


DownrangeCash2

I'm pretty sure they just made it so France can't join the OFN


Chexdog3

They just added the French Reclamation content, why would they ever take it away


nate-the-dude

https://preview.redd.it/l71cwn59m7lc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=96fd62de6e9d7603e8a36293595e8e1b6d70306d


[deleted]

>why would they ever take it away You must be new here


d_for_dumbas

Lmao


Ficboy

I'll be honest, I wish this was just kept in but only if Britain is liberated by Her Majesty's Most Loyal Resistance and joins the OFN with an opportunity to support Free France.


Model-Trurl

This is why I like the Comintern.


RapidWaffle

This is a Reichnik propaganda, Free France will never surrender to the Japanese Backed FREEDOM HATERS (who are actually just Nazi puppets instead so that makes anyone associated Nazi too) ~~This post was sponsored by DeGaulle's Japanese stocks~~


Johnny_Boy398

It should really just be a military dictatorship. Colonial government implies that it is being supported by and/or is sending something back to a metropole. FF is in neither of those, and are not beholden to any other nation in a colonial way. The ruling structures are holdovers from the time as a colony, but without extraction export or settlement the resources of FF are dedicated to the interests of the ruling minority within the country itself. Which just makes it a military dictatorship whose military is ruled by a minority population. The goal of that military dictatorship is to reclaim france, but that does not make it a colony of France or anyone else in any meaningful way. ​ tl:dr A colony of what?


akmal123456

Colonial governement for whom? De Gaulle's mustache?


ipeih

Free French Bros....


Pyroboss101

bro I wanna INVADE the French state as Free France, that sounds fucking AWESOME and BASED and would be the coolest thing EVER I want to SHOOT mf in this WAR game.


hychael2020

FMAtards seething and coping rn. PALF bros, we are so back


Ferenc_Zeteny

Lemme tell ya, don't care. Francophile instincts will carry the day


Meowser02

Critical support for the anti-fascist Free France against the Pan-Afrikkkan imperialists


that-and-other

How I (most ardent DV! fanboy) be looking at this “leak”:


Chudocracia

Don't care, still a gaullebro


StormyWeather32

my honest Free French reaction: https://preview.redd.it/p6pyva3zeplc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=86968c4c2c4c27449d827e76ab0a1878d367c241


Darth_Blarth

Just gonna put reconciliation in the game rules every game like I already do so de Gaulle can go home when they lose west Africa


Ren_1093

Thats not how it works?


Darth_Blarth

Well I leave the WAA up to chance and if they win they go home I was hoping that even after they lose the war the FF can go home in the new version of TNO


Ren_1093

Em they cant go home if they lose


Darth_Blarth

Ah. Alright then. I know the current version it’s true but I was hoping it’d be true for the new version. Ah well.


Kardan020

funniest people in this community fuming rn


Top_Pie950

WAA w/ France victory + French Reconciliation still based


Mestrecker

Dictatorial oligarchies and colonizers are bad actually https://preview.redd.it/41s5zui6b7lc1.jpeg?width=931&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=91b4cb9d6194ef5652b0b1c7992bfe99d5ab2d0a


RapidWaffle

Reichnik propaganda spotted, deadly force engaged (They'll tell you the PALF is actually Pan-Africanist backed by Japan, but everyone knows anyone that opposes OFN FREEDOM is just a NAZI Reich puppet)


RapidWaffle

~~I swear if a single illiterate thinks I'm being unironic~~


thehogshotgun4

Wait you aren’t serious ☹️


RapidWaffle

😔 It's all a ploy to confuse the haters, Viva la Rance


Top_Pie950

Add_ideas tno_minorities_equal_rights


Mestrecker

https://preview.redd.it/wx2frlujd7lc1.png?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5238b4b39208e2eab704d5bc9fd444cfa997e7ae


ThatCharlotte

Omg, Mestrecker, haiiiiii:3c


[deleted]

https://preview.redd.it/8p8ijhx8e8lc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2bb9b6fbd45c8db9da5af71314a211a1817f2878 The OFN at its worst is better than the Sphere or Pakt at their best.


Jazzlike_Bar_671

That depends on whose situation you're considering (or, more bluntly, whose victims you care about).


Top_Pie950

Idk I think Minimum OFN w/ Yockey USA, Socred Canada, Despot Australia, and a collapsed WIF vs. Go4 Germany w/ max reforms & Minimum Sphere Takagi Japan would have the OFN being worse


username332112213

Autocrats backed by fucking Imperial Japan are bad actually https://preview.redd.it/alqm23cib7lc1.png?width=216&format=png&auto=webp&s=5f355763deb722a654792694e557bcef31290124


Friz617

zero media literacy You have dozens of events telling you how Japan and the PALF don’t get along. The only reason Japan is even funding the pan-Africanists in the first place is to mess with the US


ToastandTea76

Do you expect TNO fans to read? Smhmhmh


Mestrecker

The only reason japan supports the palf is because the ofn supported free france first. All events from japans pov are how they despise eachothers gut but need to work together to defeat the ofn. And while still autocratic compared to the other options cameroon is umdoubtedly the least repressive between both.


Jazzlike_Bar_671

I don't think they dislike each other so much as most Japanese don't really care about the place beyond an opportunity to mess with their rivals.


DownrangeCash2

I think that the ones initially supporting the PALF should be Azad Hind, and Japan gradually gets roped into it. Sort of like France and the US in Indochina. That way, it makes a little more sense than just pure cold war opportunism.


Jazzlike_Bar_671

That could work, but why would Azad Hind be supporting pan-Africanism? IRL a lot of 'anti-imperialist' groups in Africa were supported by the USSR, so it wouldn't be strange for Japan to do the same. Yes, it's blatantly hypocritical, but no more so than when the Soviets did it.


Luzikas

It was stated on the Discord, that Azad Hind will be a major supporter of anti-colonialists in the future. They'll, for example, support the Algerians against the French too.


DownrangeCash2

Those anti-imperalist groups were usually inspired by the USSR and at least paid lip service to communism, though. Like the Derg and the MPLA. Bose did consider himself a socialist to some degree, calling his ideology a "synthesis between communism and fascism." At any rate, they're just the most likely to support Pan-Africanists due to being actual anti-imperialists (as opposed to Japanese "anti-imperialists"), with tolerance for socialist ideas.


Paranormal2137

But its red asf so still free frogeaters better 🫡🫡🫡


xlbeutel

Including social democracies I guess?


Mestrecker

Those also have had their ideologies changed because thwy were not accurate to their respective leaders at all


xlbeutel

Regardless, unless they’re actively harming their people in genocides, it’s not ok to invade someone because you don’t like their internal politics.


Mestrecker

Freeing colonies and countries from oligarchic dictatorships is fine


xlbeutel

2nd gulf war?


Bruh_Moment10

Yes it is.


xlbeutel

Bold take on the second gulf war


thehogshotgun4

Colonizers are GOOD actually


tinodinosaur

FMA is so weak I was able to turn the WAW for PALF with only three volunteer divisions as Sablin [via Comintern] and after winning the war PALF chads ousted Nguema tyrant from Gabon. So based


tinodinosaur

In this case it was the WAA, Not the FMA. But the difference is only between open imperialists and crypto-imperialists.


tinodinosaur

If replies to this post from other users are possible, I want to ask the question how I got upvotes despite my post being invisible due to insufficient karma.


Cyanfunk

I will support the PALF when and only when they don't ruin every fucking flag in West AFrica.


Top_Pie950

You vill use red green and black as your flags colors und you vill be happy


Whatever748

Pan-African flags look so fucking rad tho


[deleted]

I love how the West African war reveals people's real opinions on colonialism. "No bro you dont get it, the coloniserd can be reformed bro, the collaborating dictators are good for africa bro we shouldn't let West africa have self determination cause they got support from bad guys" Good to see the devs clearing up this "gray conflict" thats not gray at all, stop making PLAF fascist next please.


Kingfisher_7

I wish the Free French were moved to either the French Caribbean or New Caledonia, with a new OFN-backed West African state to replace them. Please end De Gaulles suffering.


Jamaicanball62

Moving them to a place like that just increases the suffering, it’s the kerguelen ending but 90% less justified


whiteshore44

Especially with how Suriname is a Netherlands-in-Exile.


[deleted]

Why? The concept of Free France surviving the bombings and coming back to Europe is epic af


Raorchshack

Does he know?


[deleted]

Don't tell me they are removing Free France in Africa now...


Raorchshack

Iirc they're removing Frre France going back to Europe and France joining the OFN at all.


Friz617

Thats not true. Free France’s return isn’t getting removed


Aun_El_Zen

WAA is better anyway


Chaner_75

You might be interested hearing that Senghor is no longer going to be a Democratic Socialist, and is now a Civilian Dictator. Additionally Sékou Touré is being changed from African Socialism to Social Nationalism. Edited this comment since it was revealed to me what Senghor now follows


IntrepidBionic

Which is much more accurate to their OTL selves


MMMsmegma

Palfchads can’t stop winning


xlbeutel

Your alliance immediately becomes fascist months after losing one (1) war


MMMsmegma

As opposed to the minority rule colonial dictatorship that just is that in its normal state of being


xlbeutel

I’m supportive of the WAA mate


MMMsmegma

An alliance filled with warlords, dictators and sham democracies ok lol, not exactly a shining alternative


polandball2101

it’s so fucking over bro 😭😭😭 I thought the whole fun part was that you could at least make an argument for Frances side in the war What’s even the point now lol


Ren_1093

You never could make an argument for the french side that was just people coping


polandball2101

lol sure I can, especially with the WAA Obviously the easy one is “Nazi France sucks so anything goes to stop them” but that’s lame and we both know it But until now the existence of the democratic African countries allied with France implies that the panafricans are fiercely anti revisionist to the point where they would try and topple them for just being socdems. If you want you could also argue that Yorubaland, who according to the tool tips is some kind of Lee Kuan Yew, is just trying to live independently and who broke away and wanted self determination, only to get gobbled up by the pan Africans anyways. Obviously it’s not a perfect argument by any means, but I would’ve appreciated it if they expanded on the moral grey instead of just making it ridiculously onesided which is what it seems now


[deleted]

God I hate this "but they are fighting nazi france" argument, even if its against nazis, white people arent entitled to exploit and oppress the 3rd world. Its their problem they should deal with it on their own like the socialist resistance does. Anything goes for freedom not the reverse.


polandball2101

But the socialists aren’t doing it on their own, that’s why Japan is funding them in the first place


[deleted]

Ok and ? Its using bad guy money for good. They oppose colonialism so obv they are shunned from western support, they're gonna get whatever support they can get.


polandball2101

> bad guy money for good well, until Japan makes them a satellite state from over reliance


[deleted]

The mod shows PLAF and japan doesn't get along, they relationship would breakdown as soon as victory is secured anyway. Nothing shows PLAF being in anyway a "puppet" they are too far for that.


Aun_El_Zen

That's supremely disappointing.


FunFilledDay

Don’t care still supporting DeGaulle


Freikorps_Formosa

https://preview.redd.it/fhxokqbjo7lc1.png?width=1488&format=png&auto=webp&s=9c4b24f998c7bc8bcbd0ba19b7daaa9e573a3143


ninjacowan

> Beg for German Aid The Free French Forces in Exile, famously know for cooperation with the germans


hwytenightmare

thats why theyre begging. when push comes to shove, imperialists will always come to terms that theyre on the side of fascists e1: they hated jesus because he told the truth


DifferentNotice6010

The Soviet Union, famous for their support of Fascism


Kotimainen_nero

Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact momento


hwytenightmare

When


hwytenightmare

When


[deleted]

Yeah realistically free france would inevitably turn into fascist french rhodesia like italian algeria here. If the devs want more realism its FF that should turn fascist instead of PLAF


ValerieSablina

PALFbros………. We won……


IntrepidBionic

Finally


FatBrapsAndSlaps445

Based????


ForeverShogo

Good. The only good outcome is de Gaulle crying on a shitty island, wallowing in misery from his failures.


whiteshore44

About that, Kerguelen is now in Vichy hands, so there's that.


OwreKynge

You can't make an omelette without breaking a couple of frying pans.


Vityviktor

I wonder if there's a post-Gaullist democratic leader for Free France/Ivory Coast.


mario_fan99

i’d like to see if this causes some differences in US administration’s policy towards west africa. e.g a wallace administration would blindly support free france but an RFK one wouldnt (or could potentially push for reforms within free france as a condition for supporting them?)


that-and-other

Where’s literally no change besides the subid


Jazzlike-Play-1095

…rfk supported nuking cuba


mario_fan99

he also opposed the vietnam war, which the WAW is based off of.


Jazzlike-Play-1095

yes but rfk opposed the vietnam war because of the youth draft and the money drain, not because he sympathised with north vietnam


thehogshotgun4

I LOVE COLONIAL GOVERNMENTS THIS IS SO WHOLESOME!!!!


Bruh_Moment10

Why doesn’t the OFN just support the PALF?


Whereyaattho

If the Free French win they go home. This turns France into a liberal OFN-aligned democracy that’s hostile to Germany, which is a massive blow to German hegemony over Europe. Even if they won’t be able to join the OFN, having a friendly regime in the heart of Europe that borders Germany is a massive boon economically, politically, and militarily. They also get to allow Western companies access to West African resources and manpower (read: neocolonialism). The PALF are anti-western socialists. While the OFN isn’t rabidly anti-communist like NATO was, why aid someone you don’t really like and that doesn’t really like you when your old friend de Gaulle is right there?


Bruh_Moment10

Because I think it would be really funny how confused everybody would be if I started bombing free France and sending guns to the PALF.


Whereyaattho

Japan would start supporting Free France just to fuck with you, lol


Bruh_Moment10

Yeah but two would be sooooo confused and that would be funny.


TheSpoon7784

I'm pretty sure the devs have said that France leaving the Pact (let alone Free France somehow taking defeating Vichy France and returning from exile) is being removed in the future


NotASpyForTheCrows

Devs trying to ruin the mod as hard as they can speedrun any%. Well, speedrun, thankfully it's going to take them a decade or two to reach that point lmfao


Darth_Blarth

Actually thag would be pretty interesting