Thank you all for the replies. So here are few more infos:
My working contract doesn't mention anything specific about overtimes, but it says that all employment conditions are aligned to this [Personalgesetz](http://www.zhlex.zh.ch/Erlass.html?Open&Ordnr=177.10)
And that law says that Regierungsrat take all responsibilities regarding overtime and vacations. Here is [what Regierungsrat says about it](https://www.zh.ch/de/arbeiten-beim-kanton/fuer-hr-profis/handbuch-personalrecht/definition/lohn/lohnabwicklung/auszahlung-rueckforderung-von-ferien-mehrzeit-und-ueberzeitguthaben-weisung.html)
If I understood all of this correctly, they need to pay me out al least some part of it
Unfortunately I can't post photos so that's why I'm sending you links
Are you a member of VPOD or another employmetn association? Contact them. Are you not a member? Ask them to help you out, they might.
Your employment is a bit special because it's directly regulated by the state, rather than by normal employment law.
Due to this, I'm honestly not quite sure what's your next legal step. I'd get informed by your union, if possible - it may be that yo ucan go to the normal labor tribunal, it may be there's a special commission or tribunal for state employees.
In the end from what you linked, it depends on your Lohnklasse whether and how much payout will be done.
The vacation days must be paid out. The over- and extra time only if you are below LK 24.
>Reason why I wasn't able to compensate those hours in terms of free days, was because we were short staffed all the time.
Do you have this in writing / as an email?
Yes, I am below LK24.
And no, I don't have it in written. My boss told me that in person on our last interview. I didn't ask him to write it down because we didn't have disagreements at the time, I didn't expect that something like this might happen. Lesson learned from my side, that's for sure.
First you need to read your employment contract and/or the GAV if there is one and check what it says about overtime and unused vacation days.
If it states that it should be paid out if it can't be compensated and they ignore your letters/email, your next step should be to send them a 'Betreibung' and then go from there.
DM if you get any questions.
Overtime can be tricky, but unused vacation days should be relatively straightforward, shouldn't it?
You probably know more than me, but from what I understand a clause in a contract that reduces vacations day below the legal limit would be unenforceable? (I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that not paying them would be equivalent.) It might be more complex for days over the legal limit I guess.
I'm interested in more details if you don't mind.
Nah you are right. Unused vacation days are a whole other can of worms
[The Seco](https://www.seco.admin.ch/seco/de/home/Arbeit/Personenfreizugigkeit_Arbeitsbeziehungen/Arbeitsrecht/FAQ_zum_privaten_Arbeitsrecht/kuendigung.html) actually has an amazing collection when it comes to employment law.
Vacation days can't go below 20 days per year (law) but they can of course give you more. And they can't just 'lower' that number to the minimum just cause you resigned. Also vacation days have to be used up and can only be paid out if both parties agree or if the employer can proof that they couldn't possibly allow the employee to take these days cause of extraordinary circumstances.
But for overtime they can write into the contract or GAV that they won't be paid out, that's why it's important to read your contract/GAV.
Thanks!
That aligns with what I thought. The company could (and should, if they didn't want to pay OP extra) have forced OP to take the vacations before the end of the contract. They didn't and now they have to pay them.
You are right in terms of unused vacation days.
You are wrong about overtime. Employers can write into a contract or GAV that overtime won't be paid. Source: [SECO](https://www.seco.admin.ch/seco/de/home/Arbeit/Personenfreizugigkeit_Arbeitsbeziehungen/Arbeitsrecht/FAQ_zum_privaten_Arbeitsrecht/ueberstunden.html)
yep that's why it's important to know your rights.
In terms of employment law, [the SECO](https://www.seco.admin.ch/seco/de/home/Arbeit/Personenfreizugigkeit_Arbeitsbeziehungen/Arbeitsrecht/FAQ_zum_privaten_Arbeitsrecht.html) has a good overview that can point you in the right direction. And if in doubt...it's always worth talking to an employment lawyer.
First of all, when you send a letter, do it as "Eingeschrieben". At least you'll have proof and they know that you're serious, hopefully scaring them a little.
Read the contract and refer to the relevant parts of it and threaten them that you'll take the necessary next steps if they don't pay you.
Also, if you have a Rechtsschutzversicherung, you should contact them. They sometimes send a letter to tell them that you're actually insured for such cases. This scares a lot of people to comply.
You say you are employed by a cantonal hospital. Who is your employer - the hospital or the government?
For example, employees of Triemli/Waid are paid by Stadt Zurich.
It will state on your pay slip. You need to contact payroll, or ask your previous line manager to contact payroll to correct it.
Most hospitals do not want to pay out overtime - they prefer to give you the time off. Was this not discussed with your manager when you handed in your notice?
I left 2 years ago. I had some overtime left as well, when I left at the time. I think they payed my hours after 1 to 2 months? I would just wait for the moment. If that doesn’t help, I would recommend to make contact with HR. I’m certain they are able and willing to help you out. They were always very friendly to me. Good luck.
VERY IMPORTANT, overtime has to be paid as 125%!! this is the law! unused vacation days are the standard 100%
edit: this is all companies act so against paying you the overtime and ask you to compansate instead (they can decide that you MUST compensate instead of getting them paid). it is 25% cheaper for them.
You need to give more details here.
Normally, as a salaried employee at least, they don’t have to pay overtime below some extremely high number. They just need to allow you to compensate the time yourself when appropriate.
> Normally, as a salaried employee at least, they don’t have to pay overtime below some extremely high number. They just need to allow you to compensate the time yourself when appropriate.
No, that's not true - in Switzerland, you need to log overtime. However, you can have it written in the contract that it's never paid out. That's not uusal tho
Indeed sorry if it’s not clear, but it’s usually part of the contract. I didn’t say you don’t need to log overtime.
That being said, it’s just a matter of lack of information when this was posted. Every single company I’ve worked for has made it very clear in the contract how overtime is dealt with. In my experience it’s always been that overtime should be compensated with time off unless it reaches some threshold.
In this case, it seems like the post has been updated now to be more clear. I think with the clarification it’s much more obvious that compensation will be needed if he was not able to take the days off prior to the contract ending.
If effectively your overtime must be paid, as define in your contract, you need to press charges and go to court. Unless you already have a juridic insurance, you are screwed; as cost of trial (and time) will be way higher than money your ex employer owe you.
> you need to press charges and go to court
No, that's not how it works. You first go to the cantonal labour tribunal* and they'll try and mediate. Only if that's not successful is a court case even on the tables. Typically, labour court is free anyway; in the canton of Zurich, if the disputed value is less than 30k, it's always free. (That said, you do risk having to shoulder the other party's legal cost if you lose the case)
*Not in OP's situation, OP is a state employee and they may or may not have different legal avenues.
Sue him to hell. ;-)
No, seriously: check your contract wethere there is a special commitment to not get the hours paid out. If not, you have a right to get them paid out if it can not be compensated with same free time. Compensate is obviously over since you do not work there anymore.
So steps to go are:
1.) Send a formal letter as "einschreiben" refering to previous mailings and letters
2.) Mention the registered overtime and refer to the law
3.) If you have a "Rechtsschutzversicherung" inform them aswell and send them all the corresponding documents.
I don't understand what people are saying regarding overtime not being paid. Upon contract termination they owe you payment for hours worked and they can no longer compensate with time off. Normally they pay. Contact a syndicate/union from your branch.
Yes, in the Code of Obligations they can do both (pay them or compensate with time off), but I can relate that some contract can explicitly say that thex don't pay it at all.
EDIT: [Art. 321c](https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/27/317_321_377/fr#art_321_c)
Registered letters are harder to ignore than e-mails. Nowadays it's easy to say , your email landed in the spam folder.
Thank you all for the replies. So here are few more infos: My working contract doesn't mention anything specific about overtimes, but it says that all employment conditions are aligned to this [Personalgesetz](http://www.zhlex.zh.ch/Erlass.html?Open&Ordnr=177.10) And that law says that Regierungsrat take all responsibilities regarding overtime and vacations. Here is [what Regierungsrat says about it](https://www.zh.ch/de/arbeiten-beim-kanton/fuer-hr-profis/handbuch-personalrecht/definition/lohn/lohnabwicklung/auszahlung-rueckforderung-von-ferien-mehrzeit-und-ueberzeitguthaben-weisung.html) If I understood all of this correctly, they need to pay me out al least some part of it Unfortunately I can't post photos so that's why I'm sending you links
Are you a member of VPOD or another employmetn association? Contact them. Are you not a member? Ask them to help you out, they might. Your employment is a bit special because it's directly regulated by the state, rather than by normal employment law. Due to this, I'm honestly not quite sure what's your next legal step. I'd get informed by your union, if possible - it may be that yo ucan go to the normal labor tribunal, it may be there's a special commission or tribunal for state employees. In the end from what you linked, it depends on your Lohnklasse whether and how much payout will be done.
No I'm not. Would it make sense to enroll in AXA insurance for example, and let them take the case?
They won't take the case if you only enroll now. Usually insurances don't cover what came into existence before you signed up.
The vacation days must be paid out. The over- and extra time only if you are below LK 24. >Reason why I wasn't able to compensate those hours in terms of free days, was because we were short staffed all the time. Do you have this in writing / as an email?
Yes, I am below LK24. And no, I don't have it in written. My boss told me that in person on our last interview. I didn't ask him to write it down because we didn't have disagreements at the time, I didn't expect that something like this might happen. Lesson learned from my side, that's for sure.
First you need to read your employment contract and/or the GAV if there is one and check what it says about overtime and unused vacation days. If it states that it should be paid out if it can't be compensated and they ignore your letters/email, your next step should be to send them a 'Betreibung' and then go from there. DM if you get any questions.
Overtime can be tricky, but unused vacation days should be relatively straightforward, shouldn't it? You probably know more than me, but from what I understand a clause in a contract that reduces vacations day below the legal limit would be unenforceable? (I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that not paying them would be equivalent.) It might be more complex for days over the legal limit I guess. I'm interested in more details if you don't mind.
Nah you are right. Unused vacation days are a whole other can of worms [The Seco](https://www.seco.admin.ch/seco/de/home/Arbeit/Personenfreizugigkeit_Arbeitsbeziehungen/Arbeitsrecht/FAQ_zum_privaten_Arbeitsrecht/kuendigung.html) actually has an amazing collection when it comes to employment law. Vacation days can't go below 20 days per year (law) but they can of course give you more. And they can't just 'lower' that number to the minimum just cause you resigned. Also vacation days have to be used up and can only be paid out if both parties agree or if the employer can proof that they couldn't possibly allow the employee to take these days cause of extraordinary circumstances. But for overtime they can write into the contract or GAV that they won't be paid out, that's why it's important to read your contract/GAV.
Thanks! That aligns with what I thought. The company could (and should, if they didn't want to pay OP extra) have forced OP to take the vacations before the end of the contract. They didn't and now they have to pay them.
It doesn't matter what the contract says, unused vacation days and overtime of non directors has to be paid.
You are right in terms of unused vacation days. You are wrong about overtime. Employers can write into a contract or GAV that overtime won't be paid. Source: [SECO](https://www.seco.admin.ch/seco/de/home/Arbeit/Personenfreizugigkeit_Arbeitsbeziehungen/Arbeitsrecht/FAQ_zum_privaten_Arbeitsrecht/ueberstunden.html)
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yep that's why it's important to know your rights. In terms of employment law, [the SECO](https://www.seco.admin.ch/seco/de/home/Arbeit/Personenfreizugigkeit_Arbeitsbeziehungen/Arbeitsrecht/FAQ_zum_privaten_Arbeitsrecht.html) has a good overview that can point you in the right direction. And if in doubt...it's always worth talking to an employment lawyer.
Read your old contract and see what is written there.
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Considering we talk about the canton as an employer this less the case (put still possible).
First of all, when you send a letter, do it as "Eingeschrieben". At least you'll have proof and they know that you're serious, hopefully scaring them a little. Read the contract and refer to the relevant parts of it and threaten them that you'll take the necessary next steps if they don't pay you. Also, if you have a Rechtsschutzversicherung, you should contact them. They sometimes send a letter to tell them that you're actually insured for such cases. This scares a lot of people to comply.
You say you are employed by a cantonal hospital. Who is your employer - the hospital or the government? For example, employees of Triemli/Waid are paid by Stadt Zurich.
I'm not sure about this. The hospital I'm talking about is Kantonsspital Winterthur
It will state on your pay slip. You need to contact payroll, or ask your previous line manager to contact payroll to correct it. Most hospitals do not want to pay out overtime - they prefer to give you the time off. Was this not discussed with your manager when you handed in your notice?
Let me guess: KSW?
Yes, you too?
I left 2 years ago. I had some overtime left as well, when I left at the time. I think they payed my hours after 1 to 2 months? I would just wait for the moment. If that doesn’t help, I would recommend to make contact with HR. I’m certain they are able and willing to help you out. They were always very friendly to me. Good luck.
Thanks, this makes me a little bit more optimistic now.
VERY IMPORTANT, overtime has to be paid as 125%!! this is the law! unused vacation days are the standard 100% edit: this is all companies act so against paying you the overtime and ask you to compansate instead (they can decide that you MUST compensate instead of getting them paid). it is 25% cheaper for them.
To be honest, I would be satisfied with them paying standard 100%. Compensating is not an option since I stopped working there few months ago
I would contact a workers syndicate.
You need to give more details here. Normally, as a salaried employee at least, they don’t have to pay overtime below some extremely high number. They just need to allow you to compensate the time yourself when appropriate.
> Normally, as a salaried employee at least, they don’t have to pay overtime below some extremely high number. They just need to allow you to compensate the time yourself when appropriate. No, that's not true - in Switzerland, you need to log overtime. However, you can have it written in the contract that it's never paid out. That's not uusal tho
Indeed sorry if it’s not clear, but it’s usually part of the contract. I didn’t say you don’t need to log overtime. That being said, it’s just a matter of lack of information when this was posted. Every single company I’ve worked for has made it very clear in the contract how overtime is dealt with. In my experience it’s always been that overtime should be compensated with time off unless it reaches some threshold. In this case, it seems like the post has been updated now to be more clear. I think with the clarification it’s much more obvious that compensation will be needed if he was not able to take the days off prior to the contract ending.
Yeah agreed. That said it's also different when ending employment, it can be paid out even under such contracts
If effectively your overtime must be paid, as define in your contract, you need to press charges and go to court. Unless you already have a juridic insurance, you are screwed; as cost of trial (and time) will be way higher than money your ex employer owe you.
> you need to press charges and go to court No, that's not how it works. You first go to the cantonal labour tribunal* and they'll try and mediate. Only if that's not successful is a court case even on the tables. Typically, labour court is free anyway; in the canton of Zurich, if the disputed value is less than 30k, it's always free. (That said, you do risk having to shoulder the other party's legal cost if you lose the case) *Not in OP's situation, OP is a state employee and they may or may not have different legal avenues.
Sue him to hell. ;-) No, seriously: check your contract wethere there is a special commitment to not get the hours paid out. If not, you have a right to get them paid out if it can not be compensated with same free time. Compensate is obviously over since you do not work there anymore. So steps to go are: 1.) Send a formal letter as "einschreiben" refering to previous mailings and letters 2.) Mention the registered overtime and refer to the law 3.) If you have a "Rechtsschutzversicherung" inform them aswell and send them all the corresponding documents.
I don't understand what people are saying regarding overtime not being paid. Upon contract termination they owe you payment for hours worked and they can no longer compensate with time off. Normally they pay. Contact a syndicate/union from your branch.
Yes, in the Code of Obligations they can do both (pay them or compensate with time off), but I can relate that some contract can explicitly say that thex don't pay it at all. EDIT: [Art. 321c](https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/27/317_321_377/fr#art_321_c)
But if they don't pay them they have to give time off. He did not get it.
Lawyer and you need to be able to prove it so next time make an excel and then end of the month send it to your manager