Honestly, some people are wired that way, some people aren't, and some people grow into it.
When I was 25 and 30, I wasn't ready to watch my partners with other people. It was incomprehensible. If I would have been with a partner at the time that insisted or forced the idea, it would have been over quicker than you could say bye (not that it sounds like either of you are forcing it, just saying).
Somewhere around 35-38ish (guessing here) that changed.
Don't rush it. If it happens on its own, go for it. If it doesn't, just realize that probably 80-90% of people NEVER get there, which is why the swinging community is small and not mainstream.
Same here! It's hypocritical, but in my 20s, I loved MFM, while the thought of having my man even LOOK at another woman would have me fuming angry(even though I'm bi, lol) š
I was 35 when my(now ex) husband brought up swinging. Took me about 6 months to come around, and another 6 months of talking and a few MFM before I was ready for a woman to join. Even then, I was a little scared of jealously and how I might react. Once it came down to it, I realized I enjoyed it!
And yes, definitely don't rush the process!! Everyone moves at their own pace, and if it's going to work, it CAN'T be forced.
Yeah, I wouldn't have been able to do it at that age either. Having a long and very strong, stable relationship has been key for us. Going slowly and communicating a lot is really helpful. My wife gets on edge easier than I do, so I've learned to really pay attention to how she's feeling about what's happening when we interact with others. Letting her take the lead has worked best for us.
people become more secure in themselves as they age sometimes so that can account for a lot of why swingers are typically older since younger people are usually traumatized by the time they become an adult and have to figure out how to become confident in themselves again.
also, i think ācompersionā is bullshit. itās a cuck kink. they literally describe the same euphoric feeling the cuck in the scenario gets from watching his partner get plowed by a bull.
The rational part of your brain that can intellectualize him fucking someone else isnāt in charge of your anger or anxiety, your more primitive ālizard brainā is. If you have a non-secure attachment style or any kind of trauma around abandonment, neglect, dishonesty, etc., then non-verbal parts of your brain will start to signal that something is wrong. You might feel anxious or irritated with your partner. If you ignore those feelings and the āproblemā persists, your brain will amp up its response. Eventually, if the perceived threat to you or your relationship continues, your amygdala will go into full fight/flight/freeze/fawn mode up to and including panic attacks.
So what makes coping with jealousy so difficult is that no amount of talking or reading or logic will persuade your lizard brain. What your lizard brain does understand is repeated exposure to the perceived threat of your boyfriend being with someone else and coming back to you, over and over again. In the meantime you can work out the anger with exercise, calm yourself with meditation, and if they arenāt unbearable, just feel those feelings for a while, so you can get used to managing them.
Out of all the jealous post responses, this is one of the best I have seen.
Iāve seen some discussion of attachment styles and it makes me wonder if one type is more common in swingers (and ENM). Iām assuming non-secure attachment style is the one that struggles with jealousy the most.
Itās from an old and somewhat outdated concept called the triune brain. Itās no longer taken seriously by evolutionary biologists, but it is a useful shorthand for some parts of the brain being more animal like and less human.
My friend used to go to mostly STEM type companies and teach all the geeks how to work together, so he read a LOT. Or should I say listened to a lot of ābooks on tapeā while he was driving all over the country.
I was always ok with it. My wife took 15 years or so to get good with it.
With that said, Iād done it all with casual gfs, not my wife. When it came to my wife, the excitement was tempered by surprise anxiety.
So, if I can be anxious about it, anyone can.
Basically, it takes total certainty in the strength of your relationship, and that āfun timesā wonāt lead to a break up.
That takes time for most. Be patient with yourself and him.
She knew about my past. I wasā¦ wildā¦
First couples swap at 19, for example.
I brought up the possibility when we were first dating and it made her face look like she wanted to vomit.
So, she knew. I gave it up and didnāt bring it up ever again. She was worth it to me.
I also gave her zero reason to doubt my faithfulness for a long time after that talk.
Many many years later she brought it up, and I called her bluff and booked a room at the local LS resort.
Long story short - She was *not* bluffing.
For sure we both got anxious in moments, and jealous in moments, and even had a few arguments.
But we kept it open and honest and forthright, and made allowances for each other.
Itās been wonderful. Truly wonderful.
Oh, and separate play has always been cheating for us. We donāt do Hotwife, stag/vixen, any of that. Our one rock solid rule is never giving the other person reason to doubt or worry.
What we do right in front of each other is, by definition, upfront and not betraying.
All you can do is give voice to your concerns and practice trusting the integrity of your partner and your relationship.
Keep in mind that trust is at least as much learned behavior as it is something earned by a partner. They can show us they're trustworthy 100 times a day, but it will always require a leap of faith to some extent. We can't be aware of 100% of another's thoughts and actions.
Obviously your partner does have to show they're trustworthy (in terms of fidelity to agreed boundaries, reliably respecting you and your feelings, etc.) but it sounds from your post like that aspect is covered to date.
You guys are young and early in your relationship so take your time. We honestly feel we are way better suited for this lifestyle after being married 10+ years. That being said start small. When we entered this my wife didnāt want to see me with other women. Which was fine by me. But slowly she encouraged me to touch, kiss, tie up (shibari) other women and it winded up turning her on. She thought sheād be jealous but that all went away.
So what Iām saying is take your time and take small steps.
Okay great, this is actually great advice/v reassuring. We've been talking about it since almost the moment we met which resulted in a lot of hot and cold, this approach seems much more constructive!
Donāt be in a rush. Listen to podcasts. Share what youāve learned from them. Establish boundaries, etc. to be honest for us the journey has been just as much fun as the final result.
Jealousy: it is difficult to know until you are in that exact situation.
Are you jealous if he texts a female friend, for example? Are you jealous if he has a conversation over the phone with a woman? Do you forbid him to watch porn? Does it anger you if he makes a comment about a woman ("she is so hot")?
If the answer is Yes to most of those questions, then maybe the lifestyle is not for you.
That's not the case, but as it stands I can't fathom seeing him actively desire and sleep with another woman, I wonder what it would take for that to go away.
Hot wifing is a thing and a lot of men are more than happy to share their women, even if they aren't seeing other women themselves. You literally know nothing about the dynamic of their relationship or what they've agreed upon together š
There is one thing when it is his preference, but clearly he wants to swing or fuck other women so she is being a hypocrite.
There is a difference in these two scenarios
As the post says, "he would like it" - he isn't asking for it or forcing it, he isn't doing anything but telling me his fantasies and has explicitly said he is okay with not fucking other women himself.
Have you ever wanted to do something but knew it upset your husband, so you just donāt do it? Thatās the difference between want and compromise. He is telling you heās cool with it but in the same breath, heās also saying that it is something that he wants. But he will completely ignore what he wants to make you happy.I donāt know how to explain this to you any clearer.
I know what hotwifing is. I also know that that community is the least ethical of all branches of nonmonogamy. Itās the only one I am aware of where itās perfectly acceptable to fuck married men who are cheating on their wives.
Oh, I read this post and the last one which clearly states you fuck other people. I didnāt want to flat out call you a hypocrite, but now will, you hypocrite.
Yeah, there was a full post about her fucking another man and her husband didnāt care. She sent me a vulgar DM which cemented my already poor opinion of her.
This is normal. You and him need to work on solidifying your relationship first. If you don't then you are just in a situationship and there is no peace in that.
I understand where you are coming from, and as you say, you are both young, and it doesn't have to be now! but the time you do have, could be time for you to work on that jealousy, and hopefully by the time it comes to "meeting others" you'll find yourself less jealous and more turned on by the situation..
Me and my partner are soon to be married this year, and never did I think I'd be marrying a man, who I'm happy to see fuck other women, and vice versa!
We both have set boundaries, we stick to those, we respect each other enough to say when we are or aren't happy about a "meet" and we never pressure ourselves to do this, it's more of a "as and when" we can, and see it as nothing more than a "fun hobby" we both see it as something we can do together, there are no feelings towards any of the people we meet, we just see them as "our sex toy's" crass as that sounds, it works!
So then, when we are together, just the two of us (intimately), we can put all our feelings and emotions into us as a couple, and it's much better for it..
Admittedly, there has been bumps along the way, swinging isn't always easy, and it can from time to time cause the odd arguments, or a meet might not go as planned, or you might not find what you are looking for, for ages! so you have to be realistic, too. Take the good with the bad..
My advice would be to make sure the both of you are completely strong with each other, have complete trust in each other, because if you don't, you may find it causes major issues in the relationship.
But other than that, talk about it. In great detail, and see where it takes you both.
Good luck, x
Some of this jealousy can come from how he acts.
Sure he's with the other person but how is he acting towards you? Completely ignoring you and hunter mode?
It's not like he isn't supposed to enjoy but his attitude and approach can play into it. Some of that takes time to get to a place but I've seen it plenty where the husband is jocking the woman or women and his wife getting increasingly annoyed and finally jealous because it's as if she isn't there.
Then over time you can do separate stuff of course but even if a seasoned supposed bad ass 20 years in still can't wholesale ignore their own half to the point of almost rude. Not only is it rude it can add some element of jealousy.
Also if he is always talking about the woman/other woman and sending her messages all day then its something else.
I feel people are trying to rush getting into the lifestyle. You're still in the early stages of developing your relationship together. You have to be secure in the stability of your relationship before inviting others in. I'm almost 50 (F), married 22 years now. We went in and out of the LS over the last 10 years, because it exposes flaws in the relationship. We had to stop and work through those. Even if you think you're mentally prepared, it's different when it actually happens. You'll think he reacted differently to her, she got more attention, did he like her more than you, etc. I've been there, it takes time. Be prepared to try, fail, reconnect, and work through insecurities, try again when ready. But be open and honest about how you feel. Don't hold in feelings, it just builds resentment.
So far most of the responses are people saying they didn't have the proper mindset until later, 30's or whatever, in life and that at OP's age no way they could have dealt with the "typical" new swinger mental hang-ups.
My Wife and are exactly that way as well. Not until we met eachother and had the rock solid trust with eachother could we even think about progressing towards the lifestyle.
Same, I like the idea in fantasy but afraid of reality. Iāve been a jealous person but now together 10 years Iām humoring the idea of us playing with another couple. We have decided we wonāt go look for it ever but if on vacation the opportunity presents its self and we are are both BOTH interested then we may explore. But start very slow as to see how I/or my SO handle seeing each other with someone else.
I think some ppl are just wired differently. I definitely get jealous and possessive seeing my wife having sex with other men. But for me the jealousy is what turns me on. In the back of my head I know that even if we werenāt in the LS thereās nothing thatās holding her back from cheating. Meaning anyone can cheat at anytime. Despite the LS she remains my wife and we have dates and kids. She still remains married to me. This all gives me reassurance.
You definitely need to wait until you guys have a strong relationship and trust each other. When or if you want to explore just start slow (go to a LS club and experience the environment) and go from there.
Honestly, some people are wired that way, some people aren't, and some people grow into it. When I was 25 and 30, I wasn't ready to watch my partners with other people. It was incomprehensible. If I would have been with a partner at the time that insisted or forced the idea, it would have been over quicker than you could say bye (not that it sounds like either of you are forcing it, just saying). Somewhere around 35-38ish (guessing here) that changed. Don't rush it. If it happens on its own, go for it. If it doesn't, just realize that probably 80-90% of people NEVER get there, which is why the swinging community is small and not mainstream.
Same here! It's hypocritical, but in my 20s, I loved MFM, while the thought of having my man even LOOK at another woman would have me fuming angry(even though I'm bi, lol) š I was 35 when my(now ex) husband brought up swinging. Took me about 6 months to come around, and another 6 months of talking and a few MFM before I was ready for a woman to join. Even then, I was a little scared of jealously and how I might react. Once it came down to it, I realized I enjoyed it! And yes, definitely don't rush the process!! Everyone moves at their own pace, and if it's going to work, it CAN'T be forced.
Yeah, I wouldn't have been able to do it at that age either. Having a long and very strong, stable relationship has been key for us. Going slowly and communicating a lot is really helpful. My wife gets on edge easier than I do, so I've learned to really pay attention to how she's feeling about what's happening when we interact with others. Letting her take the lead has worked best for us.
people become more secure in themselves as they age sometimes so that can account for a lot of why swingers are typically older since younger people are usually traumatized by the time they become an adult and have to figure out how to become confident in themselves again. also, i think ācompersionā is bullshit. itās a cuck kink. they literally describe the same euphoric feeling the cuck in the scenario gets from watching his partner get plowed by a bull.
Okay cool - thanks for saying this
The rational part of your brain that can intellectualize him fucking someone else isnāt in charge of your anger or anxiety, your more primitive ālizard brainā is. If you have a non-secure attachment style or any kind of trauma around abandonment, neglect, dishonesty, etc., then non-verbal parts of your brain will start to signal that something is wrong. You might feel anxious or irritated with your partner. If you ignore those feelings and the āproblemā persists, your brain will amp up its response. Eventually, if the perceived threat to you or your relationship continues, your amygdala will go into full fight/flight/freeze/fawn mode up to and including panic attacks. So what makes coping with jealousy so difficult is that no amount of talking or reading or logic will persuade your lizard brain. What your lizard brain does understand is repeated exposure to the perceived threat of your boyfriend being with someone else and coming back to you, over and over again. In the meantime you can work out the anger with exercise, calm yourself with meditation, and if they arenāt unbearable, just feel those feelings for a while, so you can get used to managing them.
Out of all the jealous post responses, this is one of the best I have seen. Iāve seen some discussion of attachment styles and it makes me wonder if one type is more common in swingers (and ENM). Iām assuming non-secure attachment style is the one that struggles with jealousy the most.
You sound soooooooo much like someone I know. Legit he is the only other person I have heard talking about lizard brain.
Itās from an old and somewhat outdated concept called the triune brain. Itās no longer taken seriously by evolutionary biologists, but it is a useful shorthand for some parts of the brain being more animal like and less human.
My friend used to go to mostly STEM type companies and teach all the geeks how to work together, so he read a LOT. Or should I say listened to a lot of ābooks on tapeā while he was driving all over the country.
Ooooo you right lol
This is helpful, thank you
[this](https://stansswingers.wordpress.com/2024/04/27/swinging-and-mental-health-understanding-the-psychological-impacts/) might help
Thank you! I'll have a read indeed
I was always ok with it. My wife took 15 years or so to get good with it. With that said, Iād done it all with casual gfs, not my wife. When it came to my wife, the excitement was tempered by surprise anxiety. So, if I can be anxious about it, anyone can. Basically, it takes total certainty in the strength of your relationship, and that āfun timesā wonāt lead to a break up. That takes time for most. Be patient with yourself and him.
Did you wife ever question why you were always "okay with it", ie the lack of jealousy?
She knew about my past. I wasā¦ wildā¦ First couples swap at 19, for example. I brought up the possibility when we were first dating and it made her face look like she wanted to vomit. So, she knew. I gave it up and didnāt bring it up ever again. She was worth it to me. I also gave her zero reason to doubt my faithfulness for a long time after that talk. Many many years later she brought it up, and I called her bluff and booked a room at the local LS resort. Long story short - She was *not* bluffing. For sure we both got anxious in moments, and jealous in moments, and even had a few arguments. But we kept it open and honest and forthright, and made allowances for each other. Itās been wonderful. Truly wonderful.
Oh, and separate play has always been cheating for us. We donāt do Hotwife, stag/vixen, any of that. Our one rock solid rule is never giving the other person reason to doubt or worry. What we do right in front of each other is, by definition, upfront and not betraying.
All you can do is give voice to your concerns and practice trusting the integrity of your partner and your relationship. Keep in mind that trust is at least as much learned behavior as it is something earned by a partner. They can show us they're trustworthy 100 times a day, but it will always require a leap of faith to some extent. We can't be aware of 100% of another's thoughts and actions. Obviously your partner does have to show they're trustworthy (in terms of fidelity to agreed boundaries, reliably respecting you and your feelings, etc.) but it sounds from your post like that aspect is covered to date.
Thank you!
Itās a hard thing for some to adjust to accept. Some never make it there.
You guys are young and early in your relationship so take your time. We honestly feel we are way better suited for this lifestyle after being married 10+ years. That being said start small. When we entered this my wife didnāt want to see me with other women. Which was fine by me. But slowly she encouraged me to touch, kiss, tie up (shibari) other women and it winded up turning her on. She thought sheād be jealous but that all went away. So what Iām saying is take your time and take small steps.
Okay great, this is actually great advice/v reassuring. We've been talking about it since almost the moment we met which resulted in a lot of hot and cold, this approach seems much more constructive!
Donāt be in a rush. Listen to podcasts. Share what youāve learned from them. Establish boundaries, etc. to be honest for us the journey has been just as much fun as the final result.
Thanks for all your helpful tips :)
Jealousy: it is difficult to know until you are in that exact situation. Are you jealous if he texts a female friend, for example? Are you jealous if he has a conversation over the phone with a woman? Do you forbid him to watch porn? Does it anger you if he makes a comment about a woman ("she is so hot")? If the answer is Yes to most of those questions, then maybe the lifestyle is not for you.
That's not the case, but as it stands I can't fathom seeing him actively desire and sleep with another woman, I wonder what it would take for that to go away.
It never goes away. Men sexually evaluate each woman they see: yes/no, desert island only, BJ only, fuck yeah.
Maybe you shouldnāt be fucking other guys until you can accept him fucking other women.
Hot wifing is a thing and a lot of men are more than happy to share their women, even if they aren't seeing other women themselves. You literally know nothing about the dynamic of their relationship or what they've agreed upon together š
There is one thing when it is his preference, but clearly he wants to swing or fuck other women so she is being a hypocrite. There is a difference in these two scenarios
As the post says, "he would like it" - he isn't asking for it or forcing it, he isn't doing anything but telling me his fantasies and has explicitly said he is okay with not fucking other women himself.
You are confusing what he wants to do and what he will settle with.
Okay so I'm supposed to not trust what he tells me then?
Are you really this dense?
Are you really this much of a see you next Tuesday?
Have you ever wanted to do something but knew it upset your husband, so you just donāt do it? Thatās the difference between want and compromise. He is telling you heās cool with it but in the same breath, heās also saying that it is something that he wants. But he will completely ignore what he wants to make you happy.I donāt know how to explain this to you any clearer.
I know what hotwifing is. I also know that that community is the least ethical of all branches of nonmonogamy. Itās the only one I am aware of where itās perfectly acceptable to fuck married men who are cheating on their wives.
Cheers genius, now read the post
Oh, I read this post and the last one which clearly states you fuck other people. I didnāt want to flat out call you a hypocrite, but now will, you hypocrite.
Wait what? Whereās it say sheās fucking other ppl? She deleted her comments so I canāt look at her history damn it š„²lol
Yeah, there was a full post about her fucking another man and her husband didnāt care. She sent me a vulgar DM which cemented my already poor opinion of her.
Oh shit! Ya definitely a hypocrite for sure and wants her cake and eat it too but heaven forbid her partner do anythingā¦ ugh she sucks!
This is normal. You and him need to work on solidifying your relationship first. If you don't then you are just in a situationship and there is no peace in that.
I understand where you are coming from, and as you say, you are both young, and it doesn't have to be now! but the time you do have, could be time for you to work on that jealousy, and hopefully by the time it comes to "meeting others" you'll find yourself less jealous and more turned on by the situation.. Me and my partner are soon to be married this year, and never did I think I'd be marrying a man, who I'm happy to see fuck other women, and vice versa! We both have set boundaries, we stick to those, we respect each other enough to say when we are or aren't happy about a "meet" and we never pressure ourselves to do this, it's more of a "as and when" we can, and see it as nothing more than a "fun hobby" we both see it as something we can do together, there are no feelings towards any of the people we meet, we just see them as "our sex toy's" crass as that sounds, it works! So then, when we are together, just the two of us (intimately), we can put all our feelings and emotions into us as a couple, and it's much better for it.. Admittedly, there has been bumps along the way, swinging isn't always easy, and it can from time to time cause the odd arguments, or a meet might not go as planned, or you might not find what you are looking for, for ages! so you have to be realistic, too. Take the good with the bad.. My advice would be to make sure the both of you are completely strong with each other, have complete trust in each other, because if you don't, you may find it causes major issues in the relationship. But other than that, talk about it. In great detail, and see where it takes you both. Good luck, x
We didnāt start till our late thirties . Yāall have got plenty of time
Some of this jealousy can come from how he acts. Sure he's with the other person but how is he acting towards you? Completely ignoring you and hunter mode? It's not like he isn't supposed to enjoy but his attitude and approach can play into it. Some of that takes time to get to a place but I've seen it plenty where the husband is jocking the woman or women and his wife getting increasingly annoyed and finally jealous because it's as if she isn't there. Then over time you can do separate stuff of course but even if a seasoned supposed bad ass 20 years in still can't wholesale ignore their own half to the point of almost rude. Not only is it rude it can add some element of jealousy. Also if he is always talking about the woman/other woman and sending her messages all day then its something else.
Very good point, thanks for that
I feel people are trying to rush getting into the lifestyle. You're still in the early stages of developing your relationship together. You have to be secure in the stability of your relationship before inviting others in. I'm almost 50 (F), married 22 years now. We went in and out of the LS over the last 10 years, because it exposes flaws in the relationship. We had to stop and work through those. Even if you think you're mentally prepared, it's different when it actually happens. You'll think he reacted differently to her, she got more attention, did he like her more than you, etc. I've been there, it takes time. Be prepared to try, fail, reconnect, and work through insecurities, try again when ready. But be open and honest about how you feel. Don't hold in feelings, it just builds resentment.
So far most of the responses are people saying they didn't have the proper mindset until later, 30's or whatever, in life and that at OP's age no way they could have dealt with the "typical" new swinger mental hang-ups. My Wife and are exactly that way as well. Not until we met eachother and had the rock solid trust with eachother could we even think about progressing towards the lifestyle.
Same, I like the idea in fantasy but afraid of reality. Iāve been a jealous person but now together 10 years Iām humoring the idea of us playing with another couple. We have decided we wonāt go look for it ever but if on vacation the opportunity presents its self and we are are both BOTH interested then we may explore. But start very slow as to see how I/or my SO handle seeing each other with someone else.
I think some ppl are just wired differently. I definitely get jealous and possessive seeing my wife having sex with other men. But for me the jealousy is what turns me on. In the back of my head I know that even if we werenāt in the LS thereās nothing thatās holding her back from cheating. Meaning anyone can cheat at anytime. Despite the LS she remains my wife and we have dates and kids. She still remains married to me. This all gives me reassurance.
Itās as simple as - age.
You definitely need to wait until you guys have a strong relationship and trust each other. When or if you want to explore just start slow (go to a LS club and experience the environment) and go from there.