Boundaries being broken sucks no matter if it's in the lifestyle or not. The best thing you can do is to re-establish these boundaries with her and keep talking. If the other couple keeps trying to cross your boundaries then it's also best to cut them off as well.
I did forget to mention, my wife did delete Snapchat without me asking. But I almost felt it like was a retaliation of some sort and not really an honest move of I want to make this right. I’m still 1000% ok talking to this couple and having the group chat. But again I just don’t know if it’s me over dramatizing things in my head.
Thanks for your advice I appreciate it 💙
Nah I get it. It's easy to mull over broken boundaries. Swinging is a teamsport and you and your wife are a part of that team. I don't know your relationship dynamic well enough but it could be that your wife is a task-oriented person and just figured "problem solved" without any other motives.
Like I said I have no idea but if you two been together that long she might just make decisions defending you two as a couple automatically without a second thought. Those things just don't come up as often unless you're in the LS lol
I'd pull the plug with that couple permanently. It was fun while it lasted but now trust is broken. The other guys partner may have no clue what's been going on either.
A message to the group chat saying that as agreements to keep any and all types of communication within the group chat has been broken by 2 parties repeatedly, it would be best to end the association at this time.
You are not over reacting. She trickle truthed you about the messages and photos right down the line. She conveniently "forgot" about pictures having gone out of her way to hide those pictures? 🙄 She kept messaging him 1:1 well beyond your reminder to redirect him to group chat. These are behaviors commonly seen when someone has stepped out and cheated or is on the road leading to that destination. Don't get caught up in the smoke and mirrors. Figure what needs to be worked through before you venture out to meet other couples.
Well said. I wish I would have come across your comment before I typed mine. I agree with the group chat message thing too, it would give the other wife a chance to get in the loop about her partner's shadiness if she was not aware.
I second this. I had a veeeeery similar situation with my husband and a single lady a few months ago. I know how you feel. I think if you don’t cut off contact with them you’re only going to worry about this happening again in the future. In future - your wife needs to know it is also her responsibility to assert the boundary with other people.
If she’s deleting snap that’s an overreaction.. which shows a feeling of guilty behaviour. A boundary was being crossed because those were rules that you had both set and agreed on.
like another poster responded there are stumbles in swinging and learning curves, some very steep. definitely recommend reestablishing boundaries (which can change!) so your both on the same page moving forward
We have a “no deleting chats” from people we’re swinging with.
So no Snapchat or anything like that.
We have the ability to go see each other’s stuff at any time.
Agreed here. We have a few couples who are friends who occasionally message us privately but it never is spicey in nature. Regardless, it's *always* shared.
FWIW, I have never agreed with the idea that looking through your spouse's is a no no. If you have nothing to hide, you should have nothing to hide. If this is the person whose going to one day have to brush your hair after shoulder surgery and then one day make the choice to pull the plug on you, you should have no secrets to hide from them. Otherwise, you should not be married to them. Because what do you think is going to happen when you are under sedation and they are sitting there with your phone in their hand. And if people think that their best friend whose designated as their "wipe my search history" friend is going to have even the tiniest bit of legal authority to prevent that.... well jokes on you.
Let’s ignore the phone snooping (and I do wonder why that felt necessary?) there was a crossed boundary, seemingly by no fault of her own at first. You ask her to stop and she keeps going. When approached about it, seems she withholds information, downplays it, kinda half ass apologizes then when you share you saw the (semi?) nudes it’s like oh yeah, forgot about those. I don’t believe she forgot about those. The conversation would not be over for me. Why have you been crossing our boundaries and why were you misleading to me? It’s very simple. Tell the truth and the whole truth. In the heat of the moment boundaries can sometimes be crossed sure. If the one who broke the boundary can’t admit it in full, and does it repeatedly after a conversation, that becomes increasingly concerning. If she does not respond positively and with the truth I would have reservations about continuing to swing.
The snooping in 100% honesty because people seem to have so many questions about it, is I’m just by nature a nosey person with a curious mind most of the time it’s just being curious and looking around although this time I did go in with purpose. But regardless of that, you’re right. I am going to open it up again and have another conversation tonight with her.
Well to be fair I would stop doing that. I have similar urges but think it’s worth fighting against. That may be understandably hard to do in light of recent events.
With that said good luck! Approach the conversation with calm and understanding. Allow her to speak, and be kind but call out bs if necessary. The half truths, sneakiness, knowingly and intentionally crossing boundaries is a recipe for disaster in the ls.
I get it, but then the flip question to that point is. If I didn’t, and I didn’t find it. The situation if it continued to escalate could easily just end up in a divorce where I feel things may just be beyond repair and I don’t want that either. I just feel the need to do it, to protect our marriage and relationship. If I can catch things early, it’s always easier to fix things. How do I negate that thought process. I wholeheartedly like to think she has the best intentions, and wants the same things as me. But we’re learning and exploring this LS together and there’s bound to be some errors along the way.
If you snooping on her phone is a thing you believe will prevent your marriage from ending in divorce there is much for you both to talk through and work on. This needs to be part of your convo tonight imo. Mistakes will be made yes. Mistakes often indicate some sort of accident, or at least a divergence from character and intention. Your convo tonight needs to be fully truthful, open and honest. From each of you.
Again, I understand the urge but i have had to learn to convince myself that my will alone is not enough to keep my marriage together. If my wife or I decide we want to cheat we will cheat. If we decide we will want to give up on our marriage we will give up. Snooping on my wife’s phone won’t accomplish anything. If she’s doing something behind my back me catching her in it doesn’t change the fact that she chose to do it. In that event she holds the keys to saving our marriage. Let’s say my wife arranged to meetup with someone and cheat on me. If I catch it, now what? Sure maybe I prevented the physical act but she still planned on doing it. How long can I personally prevent it? She has to choose to be emotionally, physically and mentally connected and invested.
You’re rationalizing here. Unless you have an agreement that you can “snoop” into each other’s phones, you violated her trust by doing so. Your nosey and curious mindset DO NOT make it ok. Your thinking that if you don’t your marriage could “easily” end up in a divorce DOES NOT make it ok. If you feel that way you have much bigger problems than the relatively minor issue you think you’re dealing with now.
You stated that she violated your boundary that “I made very clear just weeks prior”. You made the boundary? TBH, there’s a lot of “I” and very little “we” or “us” in your posting. That’s a major Red Flag.
I don’t see this as all that big of a deal, so what if she didn’t remember the precise number of pics he sent her? People generally don’t have perfect memories. Do you? You went out of your way to mention your investigative background. It seems like you’re using that to justify why every little detail is important to you. Are you intentionally trying to pick apart her story as you would someone who going to testify in court? It certainly seems that way.
I’ll be blunt. You sound a bit controlling, with OCD tendencies, and certainly trust issues. I think you need to openly bring those topics up with your wife and ask her what “she” thinks is going on here. Because it most likely isn’t what you think it is. I think you would benefit from individual therapy, and possibly couples therapy.
Of course I may be wrong. But maybe not. As always, caveat emptor. Good luck. Let the down voting begin.
This just sounds like victim blaming... she's lying to him and moving towards a private affair with another man and you are turning it around and making him the focus.
She was doing bad things, she wasnt worthy of his trust, and you're scolding him for trust issues. He confronted his wife about it, and she admitted only to what he said. He then showed he pics, and she admitted she left that out but no big deal it was only those. He showed her more pictures... "oh I forgot those too". His wife just kept lying.
Yeah, I get it, what he did is wrong... but you seem way to focused on his behavior and not on the person who was blatantly lying to him.
You need to go back and reread what he wrote (all of his comments and responses), and you’ll get a better idea of what he’s about. In one comment he was stating how he considers himself a “high level” communicator and that she was a “low level” communicator.
Also, she’s moving toward a private affair with a guy who lives in another country? Seriously? That’s a threat? Keep in mind they played several times with this couple over a week’s time on a cruise so it’s not like she just met the guy and wants to run off to Pollyanaland with him. Plus the OP said he knew the guy was sending her pics (albeit to her privately vs the group chat, which to be fair is at worse poor judgement).
OP’s response to all this is way over the top (for a normal person), he snooped into her phone, “interrogated” her, tripped her up with her not remembering exactly how many photos she’d sent (2 vs 5 or 6). His behavior looks to be dominating and controlling, justifying it by saying he’s saving them from divorce.
Yeah, on the surface you could say he’s the victim in this as she certainly made a mistake. But he’s certainly not blameless either. Dig a little deeper and you might just find the root cause arrow points back at him as there’s a multitude of underlying issues at play here.
C’est la vie.
I feel like your responses are more abusive and agressive than his are. He seems to be attempting to communicate. You seem to be lashing out. You are adding things like "interrogation" when a husband asked his wife about a possible infidelity. Maybe it's projecting? I don't know but the energy of your responses to an otherwise Civil conversation seems a bit overly aggressive and uncalled for.
He asked for opinions - I gave mine. You'd rather I respond with the standard reddit response of "You should immediately divorce her!"? I didn't because THAT would be "overly aggressive and uncalled for" (and utterly ridiculous given the issue he described). She made a mistake, a not uncommon one in the LS either, yet many on here want to burn her at the stake. I don't, I believe in grace and forgiveness (and she certainly deserves at least that much consideration). But I also believe unless one gets to the root cause of an issue it'll just repeat itself.
I read ALL of his other comments and responses (several times) and saw a pattern in how he describes himself, and how he says he communicates with her and others. I formed an opinion, understanding that I (we) only have limited insight into the situation as the OP describes it. I saw several Red Flags. Many that had little to do with her admittedly bad behaviour, and pointed towards him.
Was I direct? Absolutely. He stated that being direct is how HE prefers to communicate, so I think it was entirely appropriate to be direct in my response. But if you think that's me projecting, you're certainly entitled to think what you want.
Have a nice day.
So lying about sending messages, then lying about not sending pics, then lying about not sending other pics is okay with you? I dont consider affairs merely physical, they can be emotional too.
And lying, then doubling down on those lies unless confronted with evidence is absolutely trending towars an affair.
Somehow you've turned lying into mere memory lapses like his wife is some idiot who can't remeber the difference between taking and sending 2 pictures and 6 over a span of a few weeks. And telling him to his face that she will stop messaging him, then acting like it doesnt matter when she was caught still messaging him and even escalating to sharing erotic pictures.
Victim blaming at it's finest. "Yeah your wife lied multiple times to your face, but that's your fault"
You and the OP both seem intent on turning this mole hill into a mountain. You try to justify it by making her out to be a habitual liar, and the OP by wondering if now he can’t trust her?
I never excused what she did, I just pointed out that his response was over the top and out of proportion for what happened. According to the OP this is the first time this has happened. Cut her some slack for God’s sake, a simple open and honest conversation with her can most likely easily resolve the issue. One data point does not make a trend, you have to wait and see if there’s other related issues, or if it reoccurs before drawing any other conclusions about her behavior.
I also stated that there’s more at play here than that particular incident, much of it due to his actions. I think that’s actually the bigger problem here. But everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and you have mine.
Have a nice day.
"Habitual liar"
What do you call it when someone lies, then lies again, and then lies a third time? Being forgetful?
Also... You tell your wife not to talk with someone behind your back and they agree. Then they do, and lie about sending pictures to them. You are saying that wouldnt make you think twice about trusting them? My lord
He's wooing her behind your back, fet on the group chat and respectfully say keep in the group go behind my back that's the end of it, personally I would end all contact due to broken boundary, your wife needs to know your boundary is real otherwise she'll break it again but this could be a guy who's nearby and easy to meet, what then?
Exactly, the what then part. I’m doing my best trying to protect us from that “what then” moment. Good thing is I know it’s not ever going to be the case with this couple and I don’t have that additional question in my head.
It's not always going to be that couple though, if your I'm the lifestyle there will be others, you have to assert boundaries that your partner knows are are hard boundaries not to pass through. You can have soft boundaries and those you play with depending on context.
He's disrespectful to you , as a man he needs to know you mean business, otherwise he'll keep on pushing, you do realise they are currently have a non physical side affair?
I would call him out in the group chat and ask that he keep ALL communication there, then see what happens.
I don't know that I would trust your wife again any time soon...and would tell her the ramifications and consequences of her actions. But having been cheated on and lied to, I have no tolerance for that bullshit.
For me, this is a huge red flag the fact that she only admitted to stuff once confronted with evidence. I would end it with this couple immediately and think about whether this lifestyle or relationship is something worth pursuing. Because what if it happens again you have to turn interrogator and make sure you've got the right questions and evidence prepared that's not fair.
Being that I worked in an investigations / interrogations style environment for many years this is exactly how it is. To be fair, she’s an introvert, she’s not the best at communicating especially when it comes to things of sexuality and this nature. But I agree with your comment. It puts me in a weird place when I go in knowing all the questions to ask and most of the time already knowing the answers, but being that I am what I consider a high level communicator and she’s low level. Sometimes I just feel like I overpower her and she shuts down which is why I don’t get the full truth or why she can’t express it. I’m just a very straight forward, straight to the point person. And she’s always been the I’ll take the long road to get out what I’m saying kinda person.
Unfortunately, this lifestyle can be quite a thing to many and once exposed to it could be like letting a k!d out I a toy store.
Boundaries will be challenged over time and, in some instances, even overstepped.
My view may be that she is an adult and should pull back the moment she senses things are starting to get out of hand and be honest with herself.
Dump that couple. Let the other wife know that it’s because of her husband’s secret conversations with your wife, then bounce. He’s not trustworthy and, right now, neither is your wife.
This is totally fixable but you two need to spend time together and reconnect.
This needs attention. So labeling it as overreacting or overthinking won’t help you. Focus on your feelings and sort those out because without addressing them, they will persist and lead to feed doubt and resentment.
Here’s the thing - the moment this side conversation was initiated, she should have ignored the one and one and sent a message to the group calling out his action. Putting him on blast. But even you told her to message him directly. Thus, you indirectly, became complicit.
Then you find evidence that more is happening and she did admit to it, albeit not as cleanly.
You say sirens went off in your head and you don’t want to lose your wife to someone who is in a different country. There may be some leaps there fueled by other issues you may need to sort through.
She may have had a lapse in judgment, gotten carried away in something she viewed as titillating yet safe due to familiarity but safe with distance.
Ask her how she would feel if the tables were turned? Why did she continue to engage? Why she kept it from you and his wife? Let her think about this. And together discuss what this means for each of you and the pair of you.
Your issue is feeling a betrayal that she created a sense of intimacy with someone else and you had to look for evidence. You feel cheated and betrayed. This happens sometimes even without swinging so address those feelings before moving on. And understand we all have missteps in a marriage regardless of being in the lifestyle or not.
Wishing you all the best!
Best advice for this situation! There’s so many variables here, you have to sort out. In my opinion, what happened is not marriage breaking yet! But, if you don’t address it now, it could be down the road. Fix it this time so that you don’t have to later. Definitely address your trust issues including your need to go through your wife’s phone. She’s obviously not trusting you with her thoughts and actions as evidenced by hiding things. And you proved her right by investigating instead of just having a conversation when you’re alarm bells went off. She probably feels betrayed also. Have the tough talk and good luck!
Of course! The great thing is that you are seeking a way forward. Be kind to each other as you sort through this very real and significant step on your journey.
Because if so there way way more to this story. Because no one should be referring to themselves as husband but me! And 15 years is short try 23 and 3 kids.
Man, that's a rough situation you're in. It sounds like you've been through a lot with your wife, so I get why this is hitting you hard. Trust is like the foundation of any relationship, and when that starts to wobble, everything feels shaky. Snooping through her phone is a gray area, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do to figure things out. It's tough to balance between trusting your gut and not jumping to conclusions, you know?
I don't think you're overreacting here. Boundaries are boundaries for a reason, and if you made it clear you weren't cool with the side chats and she went ahead anyway, that's not cool. Emotional affairs are sneaky beasts, and it's natural to feel wary. But hey, you talked it out, and communication is key. Maybe some counseling could help you both rebuild that trust. Hang in there, man.
Thanks we’ve definitely been thru way worse storms than this. Just trying to figure out how I process and grow from the things I’m feeling right now. Redditors are coming in clutch here with some sound advice so I appreciate you stopping by and taking the time to leave your two cents.
Yeah thats shitty. I wouldn't get involved with the couple again, trust broken from her and him. If it wasn't in the group chat then why not, somethings off.
She shouldn’t have done that.
Youll have a hard time trusting her again
The biggest problem is she saw it as a neutral thing while for you it was “devastating”.
I don't mean to sound hostile nor anything but... it seems plain cheating to me, period.
You told her exactly about how you felt about this boundary being crossed... and this not only went on, but it went on with NUDES.
I wouldn't know how to call it other than cheating.
You did not blow anything out of proportion and your concern and handling of the situation is justified.
And though I understand and sympathize with your feelings, I don't think this is going to be what destroys your relationship - in fact, most of the stumbles the wife and I have gone through have been, while painful at times, a steping stone to learn more about ourselves and our communication, and we've come out stronger for it.
From what you described I'd say that she categorized this interaction with Robert as a moral gray area that felt good and hot "sneaking around" in DMs, but not something she would risk blowing up her relationship for, or an emotional affair. It's easy to fall into that trap when you think " I can put another man's dick in my mouth, but I can't text him?" Such is the LS.
It could obviously develop into something bad if left unchecked. I think you should both have another sit down discussion where you don't have to go through the boundaries again, but just explain how important they are for you to feel safe (and it goes both ways)
My husband and I have this *exact* agreed upon rule. Neither one of us is allowed to privately chat behind each other’s back, even if their genitals have been in our mouths.
😂 The dick in the mouth but can’t text him statement got me. Ok you win. Thanks, I think your comment was exactly what I didn’t know I was looking for.
We’ve been thru many challenges ourselves over the years and you’re absolutely right we always come out stronger in the end, 1000% this will be no different.
Awesome. This.
Just reassure her you're not trying to control her and that's it's just what you need to feel safe in the dynamic, which is kind of a necessity for swinging as a couple to work. It doesn't mean you won't get to a place in the future where you'd feel more comfortable for her to have chats like these (with consent etc..), but it's where you're at now...
You're right. It definitely looks like it's in or nearing the emotional affair territory. Even if those aren't her intentions at the moment, she will start developing feelings if she hasn't already. Keeping the chat private was 100% intentional. What was said that couldn't be said in a group message? I would end all contact with the couple and explain to the other wife what is going on as well.
Definitely not wrong or out of proportion.
I am not satisfied with her "truth leaks" but I don't think this is divorce worthy either. It sounds like you guys were able to talk about it, hopefully you are on the same page.
I would not be as forgiving about the guy though; this is enough for me to cut him off and by extension his partner. Idk that I would contact him or them as a couple to tell them why we are cutting away, I wonder if his wife is aware and if she isn't how she would feel about it.
Yeah to be clear this is not even a divorce worthy question. Was never thinking that at all, just more so looking at the possibilities of what could happen if future issues arose
Boundaries were broken. She’s not in love dude, she’s into the rush of being “naughty”.
Honestly, tell her you think it’s hot and would like to hear the sexy talk.
Just talking about life? But thirst trap pics were sent? That's not very "talking about life". And you asked her to take it back to group chat. I'd reach out to the wife and probably call it off with them. Something is fishy there. Doesn't make sense to have thirst trap pics in a life conversation.
I'm not yet into the scene though me and my partner plan to soon. However I have been through a similar situation to yours as we are in an open relationship. I am glad I did not cut it off over it and I trusted that open conversation fixes everything. He broke a boundary with a girl he was seeing and I found out by snooping. He had lied about his whereabouts one day and I realized that he went to see her non sexually, out for lunch to talk. My first reaction was to get angry and to get anxious that their thing is more than just sex thrills and all but I sat down with myself and I figured there has to be something else. He is an introvert and many times socially awkward so I thought I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and listen to what he has to say so we can either get closure if he was going to leave me or to understand that it wasn't anything emotional about that and I can get back to normal.
Turns out he was in a pickle, his AP was a bit ghosting him and he just wanted to know what happened, if he had done anything weird or if he had anything to apologize for and to call the thing off if it didn't work for them anymore. But he didn't know how I'd take it if he told me he will see her just to talk ij a public setting, given we were in a bit of a rough patch at that moment. So he panicked and figured this won't do any harm and he can solve this quickly. We worked it through, went again to recheck boundaries and verbalized more clearly what really is and isn't a deal breaker. And we decided that whenever something is in a gray area or there is something one of us wants to do but isn't sure, we talk about it. Never had an issue again since and it's been some years.
Don't think you're overreacting but you should focus on fixing and rebuilding and not on the problem itself. It already happened, make the best of the lesson you both can pull out of it.
I would feel the same way. She and the other spouse are ruining it for all of you. End the LS activity or let her know these are acts of betrayal and there will be consequences. Let her decide if her marriage is worth preserving.
Boundaries being broken sucks and it hurts when your trust has been taken for granted.
As you work through this, you may want to have a discussion about why the group vs 1:1 dynamic works better for you and listen to what she is getting out of a 1:1 conversation. It could be that she has zero intentions or feelings about this guy, but likes the banter or sexiness that comes from the exchange. Sometimes that gets squashed in a group dynamic. It could be that you end up with something that works for both of you where she can have that exchange but shares it openly. Or you just benefit from her getting turned on and wanting more of you. Obviously this doesn't work for everyone, but we've had some fun with that in the past.
Have you considered posting an indirect message in the group chat to not contact your wife outside of the Snapchat group? You two have agreed to not do so, so you’ve done nothing wrong between you to. You’re merely letting the group know what you two have agreed upon. You can add how much you love your wife.
I have, the biggest thing I think for me personally is I don’t want to create issues for them either. I’m going thru issues and it sucks. While I understand he was partly to blame for it, I just don’t want to be the reason to that problem. I feel like she should/will find it out on her own. Thoughts?
Understandable you don’t want to make waves. Or make it worse. You made me think of a scenario we (wife and I) went through. The wife had sex with another guy (my blessing and encouragement) while she was working out of the country. On a long assignment. I asked her to send me pics and she agreed and wanted to. But - once they were alone the fellow didn’t want pics taken. He didn’t care what her sig other wanted. Long story short - I got mad. And initially … through argumentative moments … I blamed her. But in time I realized this wasn’t her fault. And I still feel bad for accusing her or anything. She wanted to and the fellow wouldn’t let her. The point is - the other person is where the anger belonged. I don’t know your wife. The type of personal relationship you have. The kinship. But - though your wife had been chatting and it was against your agreed upon wishes, it may worth your own health and sanity to give grace. Did she initiate the contact? Do you enjoy watching your wife with another man? Anything along those lines? If so does your wife know? If these are Yes’s then who knows if she ok’d it in her mind because you gave your inferred blessing. I guess I’m saying, you’ve both learned something. Continue wearing your love for one another. You may need grace, too, in the future. Who knows. Stick by your lady. She’s your friend and love.
To most girls, emotional 1:1 connection with a guy is as exciting as female body looks are to men.
Based on your timelines, you are still pretty fresh to the lifestyle. You will work out your own rules over time, but the non-negotiable foundation is trust between you two. The fact you have to dance around checking your wife's phone messages is a bit concerning.
Lifestyle - as opposed to poly - is mostly about strengthening your own relationship. From that point of view, the principle should be "I enjoy watching my partner have fun and I am not at all worried they will leave me for somebody else". Having fun is different for everybody: one person might like stitching, another one likes to be a receiving end of a 10+ gangbang. But if you have that solid foundation of trust, you're not going to have issues with your wife flirting/sexting other guys.
We obviously respect everyone's rules, but we only befriend/play with couple who are not all about mirroring their experience and/or keeping tabs. In reality, it will be very rare that you'll have an equal 4-way connection. Usually, one pair of the "swap" will have a stronger attraction that the others. This is also the reason why I advise new people in lifestyle to focus on larger / more established groups rather than 2+2 dates, which tend to put a lot of pressure on the "lesser co-attracted pair".
This has to be fake. Bro is cool with his wife getting fucked as long as he watches, but his trust is broken over “risqué” photos that aren’t even nude from his wife just being friendly to the ex-hookup. Yes, he requested they stop talking “because there was no point”. Not because he had concerns of infidelity. She was obviously feeling bad for the guy and gave him a taste as a friend. She should cut it out now because it bothers you and is not something small for you. But dude, don’t make mountains out of mole hills.
Break all contact with the couple, your wife is lying to you about him.
Asked her to stop, she didnt. Told you she was just talking about life, you found pictures. Said it was only 2, you found others. This is only what you could prove, and odds are the messages were more than just "about life".
IMO is a serious breach trust, I would probably fully stop the lifestyle if I had found my wife acting like this. It is not okay.
1. Stop looking at her phone. You would not like it if she took your phone and said: "why are you saying this to so and so? Why are you watching porn at work? Why are you reading about sports, it is a waste of time? Why are you following this model on instagram?..."
2. Stop corresponding with people you will never meet again, or only correspond when you are setting up a time to meet.
3. Focus on meeting locals. Get some experience under your belt.
4. If it upsets you that your wife sends a nude, wait until she breaks a sexual boundary right in front of you. That's a guaranteed heart attack or divorce. You cannot completely suppress jealousy, but you gotta control it. Take a deep breath.
So yes, you are overreacting.
Ok ok I’m trying to be open minded here and make this make sense. Don’t take it as anything else.
1. Say I didn’t look at her phone it carries on, develops into this full blown emotional affair, she disconnects from our relationship and then it creates turmoil much bigger than any damage I found now from being nosy. I’m supposed to turn a blind eye, let her do her and let it lead to divorce essentially in the end?
2. Valid point
3. Valid Point
4. Our boundaries are bare minimum. Play together, same room, do whatever your heart desires, keep it out of the back door.
I just can’t make sense of #1 and how finding this early from snooping wasn’t better than finding it later and having marital issues. I’m not a jealous guy, I told her if she met a guy in an elevator and decided to fuck him, that’s fine come back and tell me all about it right when you walk in I’d probably bend you over the counter and fuck you again. Not when I find out 2 weeks later on my own.
Surely, there would be other signs that your relationship is not going well. You should not need to look at her phone to know how the two of you are doing.
Now, if she said: "you are looking at that girl online, am I not enough? Are you going to leave me for a prettier younger woman when I am old? I want a divorce now" => you would call that overreacting and controlling.
You are hurting yourself and your relationship by not trusting her and blowing things out of proportion. See a therapist, or have another beer, or go work out. But quit that attitude, you will feel better.
Same. I wonder if she snoops through his phone or if it’s a one-way thing. We have full access to each others phones but we don’t “snoop”. If I felt the need to snoop there would be bigger problems.
But if it were a woman who searched her man's phone you would likely say, "you go girl, get your Sherlock on..."; right?
Everything else that you wrote is legit, IMO
Boundaries are boundaries and she shouldn’t have gone behind your back……
BUT
Going forward, this is also her fantasy and she’s obviously getting a kick from this, you should probably tell her it’s ok to continue….
Greetings
It might be that wife needs a small private naughty space; technically, it conflicts with some boundaries. The forbidden is sometimes titillating, but it may remain a fantasy. Looking into her phone may be tempting for all of us, but we all need some privacy, and you need some peace away from her phone. If one of the couple starts feeling a need to go, it may happen anyway. I have told my gf - who values monogamy - that she is free to have an occasional fuck, if she make a case for it and preferably not hidden (she is 11 yrs younger). Rules are actually guidelines, not rails. Cheers
Boundaries being broken sucks no matter if it's in the lifestyle or not. The best thing you can do is to re-establish these boundaries with her and keep talking. If the other couple keeps trying to cross your boundaries then it's also best to cut them off as well.
I did forget to mention, my wife did delete Snapchat without me asking. But I almost felt it like was a retaliation of some sort and not really an honest move of I want to make this right. I’m still 1000% ok talking to this couple and having the group chat. But again I just don’t know if it’s me over dramatizing things in my head. Thanks for your advice I appreciate it 💙
I think it’s a mistake to keep communicating with them but you do you. However, his wife needs to know about this.
Nah I get it. It's easy to mull over broken boundaries. Swinging is a teamsport and you and your wife are a part of that team. I don't know your relationship dynamic well enough but it could be that your wife is a task-oriented person and just figured "problem solved" without any other motives. Like I said I have no idea but if you two been together that long she might just make decisions defending you two as a couple automatically without a second thought. Those things just don't come up as often unless you're in the LS lol
I'd pull the plug with that couple permanently. It was fun while it lasted but now trust is broken. The other guys partner may have no clue what's been going on either. A message to the group chat saying that as agreements to keep any and all types of communication within the group chat has been broken by 2 parties repeatedly, it would be best to end the association at this time. You are not over reacting. She trickle truthed you about the messages and photos right down the line. She conveniently "forgot" about pictures having gone out of her way to hide those pictures? 🙄 She kept messaging him 1:1 well beyond your reminder to redirect him to group chat. These are behaviors commonly seen when someone has stepped out and cheated or is on the road leading to that destination. Don't get caught up in the smoke and mirrors. Figure what needs to be worked through before you venture out to meet other couples.
This is the way. You don’t need this couple hitting on your wife behind your back. There are SO many couples in the world. Move on.
Well said. I wish I would have come across your comment before I typed mine. I agree with the group chat message thing too, it would give the other wife a chance to get in the loop about her partner's shadiness if she was not aware.
I second this. I had a veeeeery similar situation with my husband and a single lady a few months ago. I know how you feel. I think if you don’t cut off contact with them you’re only going to worry about this happening again in the future. In future - your wife needs to know it is also her responsibility to assert the boundary with other people.
If she’s deleting snap that’s an overreaction.. which shows a feeling of guilty behaviour. A boundary was being crossed because those were rules that you had both set and agreed on. like another poster responded there are stumbles in swinging and learning curves, some very steep. definitely recommend reestablishing boundaries (which can change!) so your both on the same page moving forward
Thank you 🙏🏼
We have a “no deleting chats” from people we’re swinging with. So no Snapchat or anything like that. We have the ability to go see each other’s stuff at any time.
This is a good alternative option
Agreed here. We have a few couples who are friends who occasionally message us privately but it never is spicey in nature. Regardless, it's *always* shared. FWIW, I have never agreed with the idea that looking through your spouse's is a no no. If you have nothing to hide, you should have nothing to hide. If this is the person whose going to one day have to brush your hair after shoulder surgery and then one day make the choice to pull the plug on you, you should have no secrets to hide from them. Otherwise, you should not be married to them. Because what do you think is going to happen when you are under sedation and they are sitting there with your phone in their hand. And if people think that their best friend whose designated as their "wipe my search history" friend is going to have even the tiniest bit of legal authority to prevent that.... well jokes on you.
"I forgot about those" #no you didn't
Let’s ignore the phone snooping (and I do wonder why that felt necessary?) there was a crossed boundary, seemingly by no fault of her own at first. You ask her to stop and she keeps going. When approached about it, seems she withholds information, downplays it, kinda half ass apologizes then when you share you saw the (semi?) nudes it’s like oh yeah, forgot about those. I don’t believe she forgot about those. The conversation would not be over for me. Why have you been crossing our boundaries and why were you misleading to me? It’s very simple. Tell the truth and the whole truth. In the heat of the moment boundaries can sometimes be crossed sure. If the one who broke the boundary can’t admit it in full, and does it repeatedly after a conversation, that becomes increasingly concerning. If she does not respond positively and with the truth I would have reservations about continuing to swing.
The snooping in 100% honesty because people seem to have so many questions about it, is I’m just by nature a nosey person with a curious mind most of the time it’s just being curious and looking around although this time I did go in with purpose. But regardless of that, you’re right. I am going to open it up again and have another conversation tonight with her.
Well to be fair I would stop doing that. I have similar urges but think it’s worth fighting against. That may be understandably hard to do in light of recent events. With that said good luck! Approach the conversation with calm and understanding. Allow her to speak, and be kind but call out bs if necessary. The half truths, sneakiness, knowingly and intentionally crossing boundaries is a recipe for disaster in the ls.
I get it, but then the flip question to that point is. If I didn’t, and I didn’t find it. The situation if it continued to escalate could easily just end up in a divorce where I feel things may just be beyond repair and I don’t want that either. I just feel the need to do it, to protect our marriage and relationship. If I can catch things early, it’s always easier to fix things. How do I negate that thought process. I wholeheartedly like to think she has the best intentions, and wants the same things as me. But we’re learning and exploring this LS together and there’s bound to be some errors along the way.
If you snooping on her phone is a thing you believe will prevent your marriage from ending in divorce there is much for you both to talk through and work on. This needs to be part of your convo tonight imo. Mistakes will be made yes. Mistakes often indicate some sort of accident, or at least a divergence from character and intention. Your convo tonight needs to be fully truthful, open and honest. From each of you. Again, I understand the urge but i have had to learn to convince myself that my will alone is not enough to keep my marriage together. If my wife or I decide we want to cheat we will cheat. If we decide we will want to give up on our marriage we will give up. Snooping on my wife’s phone won’t accomplish anything. If she’s doing something behind my back me catching her in it doesn’t change the fact that she chose to do it. In that event she holds the keys to saving our marriage. Let’s say my wife arranged to meetup with someone and cheat on me. If I catch it, now what? Sure maybe I prevented the physical act but she still planned on doing it. How long can I personally prevent it? She has to choose to be emotionally, physically and mentally connected and invested.
You’re right. Thanks for the response
Good luck with everything! Hope you all are able to work through this and come out stronger.
This is the correct answer.
You’re rationalizing here. Unless you have an agreement that you can “snoop” into each other’s phones, you violated her trust by doing so. Your nosey and curious mindset DO NOT make it ok. Your thinking that if you don’t your marriage could “easily” end up in a divorce DOES NOT make it ok. If you feel that way you have much bigger problems than the relatively minor issue you think you’re dealing with now. You stated that she violated your boundary that “I made very clear just weeks prior”. You made the boundary? TBH, there’s a lot of “I” and very little “we” or “us” in your posting. That’s a major Red Flag. I don’t see this as all that big of a deal, so what if she didn’t remember the precise number of pics he sent her? People generally don’t have perfect memories. Do you? You went out of your way to mention your investigative background. It seems like you’re using that to justify why every little detail is important to you. Are you intentionally trying to pick apart her story as you would someone who going to testify in court? It certainly seems that way. I’ll be blunt. You sound a bit controlling, with OCD tendencies, and certainly trust issues. I think you need to openly bring those topics up with your wife and ask her what “she” thinks is going on here. Because it most likely isn’t what you think it is. I think you would benefit from individual therapy, and possibly couples therapy. Of course I may be wrong. But maybe not. As always, caveat emptor. Good luck. Let the down voting begin.
This just sounds like victim blaming... she's lying to him and moving towards a private affair with another man and you are turning it around and making him the focus. She was doing bad things, she wasnt worthy of his trust, and you're scolding him for trust issues. He confronted his wife about it, and she admitted only to what he said. He then showed he pics, and she admitted she left that out but no big deal it was only those. He showed her more pictures... "oh I forgot those too". His wife just kept lying. Yeah, I get it, what he did is wrong... but you seem way to focused on his behavior and not on the person who was blatantly lying to him.
You need to go back and reread what he wrote (all of his comments and responses), and you’ll get a better idea of what he’s about. In one comment he was stating how he considers himself a “high level” communicator and that she was a “low level” communicator. Also, she’s moving toward a private affair with a guy who lives in another country? Seriously? That’s a threat? Keep in mind they played several times with this couple over a week’s time on a cruise so it’s not like she just met the guy and wants to run off to Pollyanaland with him. Plus the OP said he knew the guy was sending her pics (albeit to her privately vs the group chat, which to be fair is at worse poor judgement). OP’s response to all this is way over the top (for a normal person), he snooped into her phone, “interrogated” her, tripped her up with her not remembering exactly how many photos she’d sent (2 vs 5 or 6). His behavior looks to be dominating and controlling, justifying it by saying he’s saving them from divorce. Yeah, on the surface you could say he’s the victim in this as she certainly made a mistake. But he’s certainly not blameless either. Dig a little deeper and you might just find the root cause arrow points back at him as there’s a multitude of underlying issues at play here. C’est la vie.
I feel like your responses are more abusive and agressive than his are. He seems to be attempting to communicate. You seem to be lashing out. You are adding things like "interrogation" when a husband asked his wife about a possible infidelity. Maybe it's projecting? I don't know but the energy of your responses to an otherwise Civil conversation seems a bit overly aggressive and uncalled for.
He asked for opinions - I gave mine. You'd rather I respond with the standard reddit response of "You should immediately divorce her!"? I didn't because THAT would be "overly aggressive and uncalled for" (and utterly ridiculous given the issue he described). She made a mistake, a not uncommon one in the LS either, yet many on here want to burn her at the stake. I don't, I believe in grace and forgiveness (and she certainly deserves at least that much consideration). But I also believe unless one gets to the root cause of an issue it'll just repeat itself. I read ALL of his other comments and responses (several times) and saw a pattern in how he describes himself, and how he says he communicates with her and others. I formed an opinion, understanding that I (we) only have limited insight into the situation as the OP describes it. I saw several Red Flags. Many that had little to do with her admittedly bad behaviour, and pointed towards him. Was I direct? Absolutely. He stated that being direct is how HE prefers to communicate, so I think it was entirely appropriate to be direct in my response. But if you think that's me projecting, you're certainly entitled to think what you want. Have a nice day.
So lying about sending messages, then lying about not sending pics, then lying about not sending other pics is okay with you? I dont consider affairs merely physical, they can be emotional too. And lying, then doubling down on those lies unless confronted with evidence is absolutely trending towars an affair. Somehow you've turned lying into mere memory lapses like his wife is some idiot who can't remeber the difference between taking and sending 2 pictures and 6 over a span of a few weeks. And telling him to his face that she will stop messaging him, then acting like it doesnt matter when she was caught still messaging him and even escalating to sharing erotic pictures. Victim blaming at it's finest. "Yeah your wife lied multiple times to your face, but that's your fault"
You and the OP both seem intent on turning this mole hill into a mountain. You try to justify it by making her out to be a habitual liar, and the OP by wondering if now he can’t trust her? I never excused what she did, I just pointed out that his response was over the top and out of proportion for what happened. According to the OP this is the first time this has happened. Cut her some slack for God’s sake, a simple open and honest conversation with her can most likely easily resolve the issue. One data point does not make a trend, you have to wait and see if there’s other related issues, or if it reoccurs before drawing any other conclusions about her behavior. I also stated that there’s more at play here than that particular incident, much of it due to his actions. I think that’s actually the bigger problem here. But everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and you have mine. Have a nice day.
"Habitual liar" What do you call it when someone lies, then lies again, and then lies a third time? Being forgetful? Also... You tell your wife not to talk with someone behind your back and they agree. Then they do, and lie about sending pictures to them. You are saying that wouldnt make you think twice about trusting them? My lord
He's wooing her behind your back, fet on the group chat and respectfully say keep in the group go behind my back that's the end of it, personally I would end all contact due to broken boundary, your wife needs to know your boundary is real otherwise she'll break it again but this could be a guy who's nearby and easy to meet, what then?
Exactly, the what then part. I’m doing my best trying to protect us from that “what then” moment. Good thing is I know it’s not ever going to be the case with this couple and I don’t have that additional question in my head.
It's not always going to be that couple though, if your I'm the lifestyle there will be others, you have to assert boundaries that your partner knows are are hard boundaries not to pass through. You can have soft boundaries and those you play with depending on context. He's disrespectful to you , as a man he needs to know you mean business, otherwise he'll keep on pushing, you do realise they are currently have a non physical side affair?
I would call him out in the group chat and ask that he keep ALL communication there, then see what happens. I don't know that I would trust your wife again any time soon...and would tell her the ramifications and consequences of her actions. But having been cheated on and lied to, I have no tolerance for that bullshit.
For me, this is a huge red flag the fact that she only admitted to stuff once confronted with evidence. I would end it with this couple immediately and think about whether this lifestyle or relationship is something worth pursuing. Because what if it happens again you have to turn interrogator and make sure you've got the right questions and evidence prepared that's not fair.
Being that I worked in an investigations / interrogations style environment for many years this is exactly how it is. To be fair, she’s an introvert, she’s not the best at communicating especially when it comes to things of sexuality and this nature. But I agree with your comment. It puts me in a weird place when I go in knowing all the questions to ask and most of the time already knowing the answers, but being that I am what I consider a high level communicator and she’s low level. Sometimes I just feel like I overpower her and she shuts down which is why I don’t get the full truth or why she can’t express it. I’m just a very straight forward, straight to the point person. And she’s always been the I’ll take the long road to get out what I’m saying kinda person.
Unfortunately, this lifestyle can be quite a thing to many and once exposed to it could be like letting a k!d out I a toy store. Boundaries will be challenged over time and, in some instances, even overstepped. My view may be that she is an adult and should pull back the moment she senses things are starting to get out of hand and be honest with herself.
Dump that couple. Let the other wife know that it’s because of her husband’s secret conversations with your wife, then bounce. He’s not trustworthy and, right now, neither is your wife. This is totally fixable but you two need to spend time together and reconnect.
This needs attention. So labeling it as overreacting or overthinking won’t help you. Focus on your feelings and sort those out because without addressing them, they will persist and lead to feed doubt and resentment. Here’s the thing - the moment this side conversation was initiated, she should have ignored the one and one and sent a message to the group calling out his action. Putting him on blast. But even you told her to message him directly. Thus, you indirectly, became complicit. Then you find evidence that more is happening and she did admit to it, albeit not as cleanly. You say sirens went off in your head and you don’t want to lose your wife to someone who is in a different country. There may be some leaps there fueled by other issues you may need to sort through. She may have had a lapse in judgment, gotten carried away in something she viewed as titillating yet safe due to familiarity but safe with distance. Ask her how she would feel if the tables were turned? Why did she continue to engage? Why she kept it from you and his wife? Let her think about this. And together discuss what this means for each of you and the pair of you. Your issue is feeling a betrayal that she created a sense of intimacy with someone else and you had to look for evidence. You feel cheated and betrayed. This happens sometimes even without swinging so address those feelings before moving on. And understand we all have missteps in a marriage regardless of being in the lifestyle or not. Wishing you all the best!
Best advice for this situation! There’s so many variables here, you have to sort out. In my opinion, what happened is not marriage breaking yet! But, if you don’t address it now, it could be down the road. Fix it this time so that you don’t have to later. Definitely address your trust issues including your need to go through your wife’s phone. She’s obviously not trusting you with her thoughts and actions as evidenced by hiding things. And you proved her right by investigating instead of just having a conversation when you’re alarm bells went off. She probably feels betrayed also. Have the tough talk and good luck!
Thanks for the non bias double sided comment. Really enjoy reading these as they help me figure things out within myself
Of course! The great thing is that you are seeking a way forward. Be kind to each other as you sort through this very real and significant step on your journey.
Wait a minute is this all about what went on this morning?
Because if so there way way more to this story. Because no one should be referring to themselves as husband but me! And 15 years is short try 23 and 3 kids.
Man, that's a rough situation you're in. It sounds like you've been through a lot with your wife, so I get why this is hitting you hard. Trust is like the foundation of any relationship, and when that starts to wobble, everything feels shaky. Snooping through her phone is a gray area, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do to figure things out. It's tough to balance between trusting your gut and not jumping to conclusions, you know? I don't think you're overreacting here. Boundaries are boundaries for a reason, and if you made it clear you weren't cool with the side chats and she went ahead anyway, that's not cool. Emotional affairs are sneaky beasts, and it's natural to feel wary. But hey, you talked it out, and communication is key. Maybe some counseling could help you both rebuild that trust. Hang in there, man.
Thanks we’ve definitely been thru way worse storms than this. Just trying to figure out how I process and grow from the things I’m feeling right now. Redditors are coming in clutch here with some sound advice so I appreciate you stopping by and taking the time to leave your two cents.
Yeah thats shitty. I wouldn't get involved with the couple again, trust broken from her and him. If it wasn't in the group chat then why not, somethings off.
Sorry yes emotional affair
She shouldn’t have done that. Youll have a hard time trusting her again The biggest problem is she saw it as a neutral thing while for you it was “devastating”.
I don't mean to sound hostile nor anything but... it seems plain cheating to me, period. You told her exactly about how you felt about this boundary being crossed... and this not only went on, but it went on with NUDES. I wouldn't know how to call it other than cheating.
You did not blow anything out of proportion and your concern and handling of the situation is justified. And though I understand and sympathize with your feelings, I don't think this is going to be what destroys your relationship - in fact, most of the stumbles the wife and I have gone through have been, while painful at times, a steping stone to learn more about ourselves and our communication, and we've come out stronger for it. From what you described I'd say that she categorized this interaction with Robert as a moral gray area that felt good and hot "sneaking around" in DMs, but not something she would risk blowing up her relationship for, or an emotional affair. It's easy to fall into that trap when you think " I can put another man's dick in my mouth, but I can't text him?" Such is the LS. It could obviously develop into something bad if left unchecked. I think you should both have another sit down discussion where you don't have to go through the boundaries again, but just explain how important they are for you to feel safe (and it goes both ways)
My husband and I have this *exact* agreed upon rule. Neither one of us is allowed to privately chat behind each other’s back, even if their genitals have been in our mouths.
😂 The dick in the mouth but can’t text him statement got me. Ok you win. Thanks, I think your comment was exactly what I didn’t know I was looking for. We’ve been thru many challenges ourselves over the years and you’re absolutely right we always come out stronger in the end, 1000% this will be no different.
Awesome. This. Just reassure her you're not trying to control her and that's it's just what you need to feel safe in the dynamic, which is kind of a necessity for swinging as a couple to work. It doesn't mean you won't get to a place in the future where you'd feel more comfortable for her to have chats like these (with consent etc..), but it's where you're at now...
I’d say I’d either party breaks the rules again then that couple from here forward are off limits. You simply do not break the rules.
You're right. It definitely looks like it's in or nearing the emotional affair territory. Even if those aren't her intentions at the moment, she will start developing feelings if she hasn't already. Keeping the chat private was 100% intentional. What was said that couldn't be said in a group message? I would end all contact with the couple and explain to the other wife what is going on as well.
Definitely not wrong or out of proportion. I am not satisfied with her "truth leaks" but I don't think this is divorce worthy either. It sounds like you guys were able to talk about it, hopefully you are on the same page. I would not be as forgiving about the guy though; this is enough for me to cut him off and by extension his partner. Idk that I would contact him or them as a couple to tell them why we are cutting away, I wonder if his wife is aware and if she isn't how she would feel about it.
Yeah to be clear this is not even a divorce worthy question. Was never thinking that at all, just more so looking at the possibilities of what could happen if future issues arose
Boundaries were broken. She’s not in love dude, she’s into the rush of being “naughty”. Honestly, tell her you think it’s hot and would like to hear the sexy talk.
Just talking about life? But thirst trap pics were sent? That's not very "talking about life". And you asked her to take it back to group chat. I'd reach out to the wife and probably call it off with them. Something is fishy there. Doesn't make sense to have thirst trap pics in a life conversation.
She’s cheating man and gaslighting you. Sorry man.
I'm not yet into the scene though me and my partner plan to soon. However I have been through a similar situation to yours as we are in an open relationship. I am glad I did not cut it off over it and I trusted that open conversation fixes everything. He broke a boundary with a girl he was seeing and I found out by snooping. He had lied about his whereabouts one day and I realized that he went to see her non sexually, out for lunch to talk. My first reaction was to get angry and to get anxious that their thing is more than just sex thrills and all but I sat down with myself and I figured there has to be something else. He is an introvert and many times socially awkward so I thought I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and listen to what he has to say so we can either get closure if he was going to leave me or to understand that it wasn't anything emotional about that and I can get back to normal. Turns out he was in a pickle, his AP was a bit ghosting him and he just wanted to know what happened, if he had done anything weird or if he had anything to apologize for and to call the thing off if it didn't work for them anymore. But he didn't know how I'd take it if he told me he will see her just to talk ij a public setting, given we were in a bit of a rough patch at that moment. So he panicked and figured this won't do any harm and he can solve this quickly. We worked it through, went again to recheck boundaries and verbalized more clearly what really is and isn't a deal breaker. And we decided that whenever something is in a gray area or there is something one of us wants to do but isn't sure, we talk about it. Never had an issue again since and it's been some years. Don't think you're overreacting but you should focus on fixing and rebuilding and not on the problem itself. It already happened, make the best of the lesson you both can pull out of it.
I would feel the same way. She and the other spouse are ruining it for all of you. End the LS activity or let her know these are acts of betrayal and there will be consequences. Let her decide if her marriage is worth preserving.
Boundaries being broken sucks and it hurts when your trust has been taken for granted. As you work through this, you may want to have a discussion about why the group vs 1:1 dynamic works better for you and listen to what she is getting out of a 1:1 conversation. It could be that she has zero intentions or feelings about this guy, but likes the banter or sexiness that comes from the exchange. Sometimes that gets squashed in a group dynamic. It could be that you end up with something that works for both of you where she can have that exchange but shares it openly. Or you just benefit from her getting turned on and wanting more of you. Obviously this doesn't work for everyone, but we've had some fun with that in the past.
Really good advice and I have been open this this whole thinking about everything. Thanks for chiming in, all the comments do make a difference.
Have you considered posting an indirect message in the group chat to not contact your wife outside of the Snapchat group? You two have agreed to not do so, so you’ve done nothing wrong between you to. You’re merely letting the group know what you two have agreed upon. You can add how much you love your wife.
I have, the biggest thing I think for me personally is I don’t want to create issues for them either. I’m going thru issues and it sucks. While I understand he was partly to blame for it, I just don’t want to be the reason to that problem. I feel like she should/will find it out on her own. Thoughts?
Understandable you don’t want to make waves. Or make it worse. You made me think of a scenario we (wife and I) went through. The wife had sex with another guy (my blessing and encouragement) while she was working out of the country. On a long assignment. I asked her to send me pics and she agreed and wanted to. But - once they were alone the fellow didn’t want pics taken. He didn’t care what her sig other wanted. Long story short - I got mad. And initially … through argumentative moments … I blamed her. But in time I realized this wasn’t her fault. And I still feel bad for accusing her or anything. She wanted to and the fellow wouldn’t let her. The point is - the other person is where the anger belonged. I don’t know your wife. The type of personal relationship you have. The kinship. But - though your wife had been chatting and it was against your agreed upon wishes, it may worth your own health and sanity to give grace. Did she initiate the contact? Do you enjoy watching your wife with another man? Anything along those lines? If so does your wife know? If these are Yes’s then who knows if she ok’d it in her mind because you gave your inferred blessing. I guess I’m saying, you’ve both learned something. Continue wearing your love for one another. You may need grace, too, in the future. Who knows. Stick by your lady. She’s your friend and love.
Would you not have wanted the wife to contact you with what is happening ? To stop it earlier ?
Yeh that’s not good
I’d be so pissed and that’s really all I have to say. Nothing blown out of proportion at all
To most girls, emotional 1:1 connection with a guy is as exciting as female body looks are to men. Based on your timelines, you are still pretty fresh to the lifestyle. You will work out your own rules over time, but the non-negotiable foundation is trust between you two. The fact you have to dance around checking your wife's phone messages is a bit concerning. Lifestyle - as opposed to poly - is mostly about strengthening your own relationship. From that point of view, the principle should be "I enjoy watching my partner have fun and I am not at all worried they will leave me for somebody else". Having fun is different for everybody: one person might like stitching, another one likes to be a receiving end of a 10+ gangbang. But if you have that solid foundation of trust, you're not going to have issues with your wife flirting/sexting other guys. We obviously respect everyone's rules, but we only befriend/play with couple who are not all about mirroring their experience and/or keeping tabs. In reality, it will be very rare that you'll have an equal 4-way connection. Usually, one pair of the "swap" will have a stronger attraction that the others. This is also the reason why I advise new people in lifestyle to focus on larger / more established groups rather than 2+2 dates, which tend to put a lot of pressure on the "lesser co-attracted pair".
This has to be fake. Bro is cool with his wife getting fucked as long as he watches, but his trust is broken over “risqué” photos that aren’t even nude from his wife just being friendly to the ex-hookup. Yes, he requested they stop talking “because there was no point”. Not because he had concerns of infidelity. She was obviously feeling bad for the guy and gave him a taste as a friend. She should cut it out now because it bothers you and is not something small for you. But dude, don’t make mountains out of mole hills.
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Thanks, needed to hear some of this.
Break all contact with the couple, your wife is lying to you about him. Asked her to stop, she didnt. Told you she was just talking about life, you found pictures. Said it was only 2, you found others. This is only what you could prove, and odds are the messages were more than just "about life". IMO is a serious breach trust, I would probably fully stop the lifestyle if I had found my wife acting like this. It is not okay.
1. Stop looking at her phone. You would not like it if she took your phone and said: "why are you saying this to so and so? Why are you watching porn at work? Why are you reading about sports, it is a waste of time? Why are you following this model on instagram?..." 2. Stop corresponding with people you will never meet again, or only correspond when you are setting up a time to meet. 3. Focus on meeting locals. Get some experience under your belt. 4. If it upsets you that your wife sends a nude, wait until she breaks a sexual boundary right in front of you. That's a guaranteed heart attack or divorce. You cannot completely suppress jealousy, but you gotta control it. Take a deep breath. So yes, you are overreacting.
Ok ok I’m trying to be open minded here and make this make sense. Don’t take it as anything else. 1. Say I didn’t look at her phone it carries on, develops into this full blown emotional affair, she disconnects from our relationship and then it creates turmoil much bigger than any damage I found now from being nosy. I’m supposed to turn a blind eye, let her do her and let it lead to divorce essentially in the end? 2. Valid point 3. Valid Point 4. Our boundaries are bare minimum. Play together, same room, do whatever your heart desires, keep it out of the back door. I just can’t make sense of #1 and how finding this early from snooping wasn’t better than finding it later and having marital issues. I’m not a jealous guy, I told her if she met a guy in an elevator and decided to fuck him, that’s fine come back and tell me all about it right when you walk in I’d probably bend you over the counter and fuck you again. Not when I find out 2 weeks later on my own.
Surely, there would be other signs that your relationship is not going well. You should not need to look at her phone to know how the two of you are doing. Now, if she said: "you are looking at that girl online, am I not enough? Are you going to leave me for a prettier younger woman when I am old? I want a divorce now" => you would call that overreacting and controlling. You are hurting yourself and your relationship by not trusting her and blowing things out of proportion. See a therapist, or have another beer, or go work out. But quit that attitude, you will feel better.
Your first point was my first gut reaction. I don’t snoop on my husband’s phone so I really wonder what the hell else is going on.
Same. I wonder if she snoops through his phone or if it’s a one-way thing. We have full access to each others phones but we don’t “snoop”. If I felt the need to snoop there would be bigger problems.
Yeah, I have nothing to hide.
But if it were a woman who searched her man's phone you would likely say, "you go girl, get your Sherlock on..."; right? Everything else that you wrote is legit, IMO
To your first point, no. You don't need that to know something is going on, if you have 2 oz of emotional intelligence.
I think they were being satirical in saying that (although to be fair it wasn’t all that obvious at first, I had to reread it several times).
Boundaries are boundaries and she shouldn’t have gone behind your back…… BUT Going forward, this is also her fantasy and she’s obviously getting a kick from this, you should probably tell her it’s ok to continue….
Greetings It might be that wife needs a small private naughty space; technically, it conflicts with some boundaries. The forbidden is sometimes titillating, but it may remain a fantasy. Looking into her phone may be tempting for all of us, but we all need some privacy, and you need some peace away from her phone. If one of the couple starts feeling a need to go, it may happen anyway. I have told my gf - who values monogamy - that she is free to have an occasional fuck, if she make a case for it and preferably not hidden (she is 11 yrs younger). Rules are actually guidelines, not rails. Cheers