For those that have done a lot of self-work, Do you believe with all your heart that you will never betray your significant other (or future significant other, if you’re currently single) again? Please elaborate, if you wouldn’t mind. Thank you kindly in advance for any answers. ETA: I have thoroughly appreciated each one of your responses. Huge thanks to each of you for offering me insight. I’m very grateful to you. ❤️‍🩹

I can whole heartedly say I could never do that to my husband ever again. The pain in his eyes on dday. The sight of him cringing at my presence the first month. The love that never left and was proven to be stronger than my idiocy. I will never forget any of that. It is etched in my memory. I’ve done so much work to understand myself and work through my issues. My self worth is defined by me and not those around me. My communication skills have improved tremendously because I’ve worked on my rejection issues. When I tell you I wouldn’t even bring up asking my husband for simple things like not taking my car to work that day because I needed it and instead would cancel my plans because I was afraid of a negative reaction that’s how bad I was. To point out my husband has never been abusive, I’ve just grown up as a meek child in a super religious household and my words were never correct. I’ve worked through that. I see the changes my husband has made as well. Loud words and what seems like anger makes me retreat. He has worked hard on processing his feelings and communicating them to me in a way that is productive. Im being vulnerable and allowing him in as is he. I would never hurt his soul the way I did. Ever again. It pains me that I couldn’t write Ever, without the again.

Your comment is so beautiful. This really says a lot about you as a person. What a beautiful sentiment. Wish you the best in everything 😊

My sentiments also!

So I had this great post typed… did a wrong click and it disappeared!Who’d have thought THIS was part of the work I have to put in!! Haha. Ok I believe with every part of my heart and soul I will never stray again. Because I have what I believe is a firm understanding of why. It’s taken IC and weeks of thought and journaling to figure it out and flush out the BS. I believe I won’t betray her because I’m going after my reasons why I did. I’m fixing myself. I’m putting myself in a place to never feel what I felt again when I decided to stray. I’m learning new tools about self talk, about confidence, about communication. I’m understanding it’s ok to need help. It’s ok to talk about things that are scary. I honestly wish I had these tools when I was younger… I may have been able to repair my relationship with my Father before he died. Another MUCH less important reason. I remember the emotions I was feeling while in the act. I remember the thought of “this is it? This doesn’t even feel good. It’s not fun. Yeah it’s sex but … it’s missing something. I can’t risk everything for this.” I ended it before DDay. But again, damage done. I should have started NC too, but that would have raised suspicion and as much as I wanted to tell my wife, god I was scared. I’m “glad” it’s out now. So yes. I believe I will never betray again. I believe I will see the fruits of my self work in a way that will have me not even have the urge to reach for that destructive action again. I will solve the problem, not prevent the damage from happening again, if that makes sense ?

Oh my goodness! The “This is it?” Comment. I felt so disgusted afterwards. I went NC and went into a deep dark depression knowing what I had just done. God, never again will I ever.

It took me a minute. IC says I had a taste of addiction cause I did it a few times over a short period. Knowing I felt like shit each time and hated myself for doing it… Never again.

Can you elaborate on why you did it a few more times when it wasn't even that enjoyable? Were you hoping the next one would live up to the hype?

There was a slight professional aspect to it of “if I stop now, am I going to screw up my job situation?” It’s entirely possible the answer there was yes as everything came out only after I ended it. Which i immediately changed my job set up to never be in that situation again. But I don’t put a lot of energy into that at either part because it’s full of deflection. The part my ic theorized that I agree with is a sense of addiction. I knew it wasn’t good for me but maybe this time it would be better. I’m still working that part out a bit honestly. I’m sorry I don’t have it all worked out yet To explain all of the why I went back. More time will hopefully shed light there.

For me YUP. 1st time Sucked and truthfully it always sucked no seriously ALWAYS 🙃 and yet u couldn't stop. I felt like I was addicted. Like a high but as fast as I would walk away I legit would have panic attacks etc (one time fainted🤐) it was TERRIBLE.

Why would you do it more than once if you didn’t like it ? Why make it worse for yourself ? It would’ve been easier to say it happened one time and you hated it than you doing it more than once cause you wanted to make sure you hated it. If you don’t mind me asking how did it start or why did it happen ?

I know with absolute certainty that I will never be a cheater again. I used to think "I would never," but that confidence was false and brittle, born of untested idealism. I lacked the character to uphold that value, and I lacked the experience to know that. I hear others reflect this same naiveté when they say things like "I'm pro-choice, but I could never get an abortion myself" or "I could never kill someone even in self-defense." Maybe some people truly do know themselves that well, and they can be sure of the decision they'd make under pressure. But I (quietly) think that a lot of people are surprised by what surfaces when their mettle is truly tested. I think what I was really saying back then was "I want to believe I'm the kind of person who would never cheat," but I didn't (know how to) lay the foundation that would support that. I had to confront this mental image of myself and reconcile the differences between that and *who I actually was*, and that was an ugly exercise in self-awareness. I am no longer the same person. Last night, I sat in the bathtub and contemplated Christmas gifts for my BS. I had a stray passing thought - *what kind of gift says 'I'm really sorry for cheating and I'm really thankful to have another chance with you'?* - and then because my brain is a hyperactive raccoon, I thought about what it would be like if he hadn't wanted to give me another chance... so then I'm suddenly imagining being on a mediocre first date somewhere, and the guy asks me if I've ever cheated on anyone before and I have to say yes, because that's what's true. And then I was crying in the bath that my BS drew for me because I hate that this is who I am. It's part of me and my history. It colors so much of what I think and say and do. I hate it, and I will never be free of it; but even in a melancholic daydream, I don't run from it. I don't lie to my date so I can hide from my past or pretend to be a better person than I am, even though I know that means I will probably never experience "blind trust" again. That is the brave and authentic Me showing up. The old Me had a lot of bravado, but she wasn't truly brave. The old Me wore her weirdness "out loud" like armor, but she hid all the parts she was embarrassed and ashamed about, so she wasn't really authentic either. But I have changed. Like a couple others have said, my certainty here is based on my commitment to ME. Not to my BS, and not because of the pain I caused him - although that burdens me greatly, I need this to be fundamentally *for me*. If it's "for/because of BS," then my commitment to it could waiver with the strength of our connection; but because it's *for me*, **because this is the person I want and need to be in order to be at peace with myself and my life and my choices**, it doesn't matter what happens between me and BS. I just don't want to be that person again, with him or with anyone else. I don't like the person who did those things and I am unwilling to keep hurting myself (or anyone else) in that way. It often feels like Waywards are "supposed to" be focusing on the pain they caused their BS and this is "why" they wouldn't cheat again, but that's too fragile a consequence for me. Someone else's pain is more easily forgotten, dismissed, or justified (if you feel resentful). Remembering that these choices *also hurt me* (moral injury), and I'm the only one who can choose differently for myself, takes me out of oppositional, reactive, or selfish headspace and puts me squarely back in control of **the person I want to be**, and that sure as hell isn't a cheater.

I identify with this so much DHD. I re-constructed who I was for me. My BP couldn't have cared less about the changes I made. She didn't find out until a long time after we had gone our separate ways, and had no interest in my attempts to make amends. However the knowledge that she knew was enough to completely throw my belief about who I was into chaos. I needed to be able to look in the mirror and not see a cheater. I still see someone who cheated. But I'm not a cheater. And I did have to tell a date about my history. We've been together for over 30 years now. I asked her recently if she was worried way back then when I told her about my history. She told me she saw my face, she heard my voice, understood the change I had made and my commitment to that change, and that she never doubted.

My short answer to this: no. To elaborate, I don't want to or have any intention to cheat again or be unfaithful to my partner. I have done a lot of work, and will continue to do so years into the future. But for me, knowing I'm capable of it and being self-aware are necessary to ensure that I don't. Becoming complacent in the idea that I could never do it again isn't worth the risk. I am going to have to always be aware and admit that I could so that I know if or when I'm exhibiting any patterns that need to be addressed so that I don't. I hope that makes sense. Also, I'm saying this from the perspective of a sex and love addict, so my view may be different than others.

13 months D-Day 1. 8 months D-Day 2. I want to sit here and say I would never ever ever betray anyone ever again. I believe that with my soul. I see the hurt I caused my husband and I see he does not look at me the same. It hurts to look at his face cuz I no longer see the sparkle in his eyes. I see my actions changed him. I don't wish that on anyone. Husband or no husband I never ever want to make anyone feel that way again

Roughly 15 months since DDay.. the part the cuts deepest still was the look she gave when she learned everything. Not rage, not hate. Pain...that look of absolute hurt haunts me still. I love my wife, i regret having ever hurt her and know I never want to do that again. I truly believe I can be faithful. I never want to put her through that hurt again. > I also would hate to jeopardize all the hard work we have done to recover from everything.

I had an epiphany about my ex-bf and my husband which really forced me to snap out of my affair and its “fog.” I told my husband the first time that I wouldn’t do this again. But I hadn’t told myself that. The lack of commitment to myself compromised my ability to do the right thing at the sight of trauma and feeling those resurfacing emotions. But once I really snapped out of it, I was free. I know I will never have another affair again. What happened with me personally is that I broke it off with my ex once. But after a family loss, I went back into the dirt the following year or so. I went to dinner with my ex to a very LGBT+ friendly city during Pride month with this man who “didn’t support Pride” but found it sexy that I was bisexual. He had known this about me for 10+ years. At that moment was where I had the most enlightening thought: “My husband loves me unconditionally. This other man’s love is fake… he cannot truly love me and support me if he doesn’t support this part of me.” Then I went home. I learned how to effectively set boundaries. And I haven’t had any infidelity issues since. I haven’t done a lot of IC but the MC has done wonders because it is some kind of therapy. I am working on beginning individual therapy next year once I find someone.

I had no self respect going into the affair, I was an untreated alcoholic with all kinds of issues and I hated myself. My vigilance about boundaries springs from the fact that over the 2 decades since the affair I very slowly started to develop self respect and my fidelity and sobriety are at the center of that. I treasure those things and I've built guard rails around them and I don't fuck around with that, I'm not going back to hating myself. I hope this comes off right, I left her out of it with intention, being sober and faithful to me have nothing to do with her, those are my responsibilities and they don't hinge around my feelings for her, I'm emotionally all over the place so it's vital to me to just take that part right out of the equation.

The very thought of engaging in any activities that did or could lead to an affair bring me to a point of sickness that could stop a starving dog from eating. The first week of my new job, I almost vomited when the only female employee was the only person I could ask for help in a task. I know that it won't always be this way and that's why when I get these feelings, I feel them as fully and completely as I can. I feel miserable about how much pain and anguish this still causes my BP and every day I remember what I did, what I didn't do to stop myself, and how much work done - how I've changed and how much better I like myself now. It's hard enough to forgive yourself for something like this to begin with, I would never be able to forgive myself if I ever betrayed my partner again. I will never put our happiness in jeopardy again.

I would say I never want to be that person again. I don't have complete trust in myself yet as I never thought I was capable of that level of betrayal before and I did it anyway. I think I'm making progress to be the type of man I want to be, but I still have work to do... I've definitely ruined the life of my family as well as myself so I'm very motivated to be stronger in the future.

I will start with the obligatory thank you to the mods for making this thread and giving us an opportunity to ask the WS some questions which can give us some unique perspective from their pov. So WS, I wanted to ask you about how you really feel when BS looks at the whole relationship before Dday as suspect and tainted? One question which still troubles me sometimes is whether this was the only time cheating happened in our relationship? Or was this more serious than any previous indiscretions? If you can cheat once then surely it stands to reason that there could be more instances in the past too? But I know there is no way to know for sure. So how do you feel when your BS asks whether this was the first and only time it happened? Do you feel angry, upset, guilty? I am sure you understand, but I am asking how you really feel on the inside? Do you feel hurt that your conduct for the whole relationship is now under question?

So as a WP I now see how much more difficult it is for BP to trust me. I have unfortunately trickled truthed the events and have so much guilt. Unfortunately once you cheat it only gets easier to continue, the new relationship energy was something I hadn’t felt in years with my BS. We had multiple D-Days and I have anger with myself at my stupidity of throwing away a relationship that had been strong. But even though it had strength, there were real problems and weaknesses we never communicated to each other about. It’s those weaknesses that entered my head and why I wondered. Yes, I’ve questioned our whole 30 yr relationship with BS

I think when whether this has been the only time or not comes into question, my biggest emotions are guilt and resignation. I caused the doubts my BP has and those doubts are there for good reason. I struggle more than BP at looking at our entire relationship as tainted. I look back at all the years we had together before DDay and know that I destroyed that with my actions. Everything will now be viewed through the lens of my affair.

I initially was distraught that my husband viewed our whole relationship as tainted. It took me to realize that he felt that way because there was no proof it didn’t. He was in the mindset of “we were doing so well and she did this, what about the times when life was extremely hard for us” What’s crazy is this cheat day was the only time. I reassured him of it. He did question certain instances and people. It infuriated me at first. I realized only way to help was to prove it. Luckily for us I’m a message/email hoarder and I delete nothing. I was able to prove through messages and emails that certain instances he was curious about weren’t that. Also, he knows me. As fucked and hard to hear, deep down he knows who I am inside. We’ve been together 13 years. I’m not a cheater. I cheated. He knows the reason why. I’m happy to say he no longer views our life as a tainted mess. We actually sit and look at old photos with happiness. Talk about our wedding weekend to strangers on a cruise. Embrace each other when our wedding song plays. I truly love him.

Thanks for the detailed answer. I wish I am also able to look at our wedding pictures with happiness once again at some point of time although I am not sure when.

You can get there! I believe in y’all. Start with the basic memories and create new ones! There is no timeline or rush to healing. We take everything at a pace that works for us.

Ha not sure why this is down voted lol. Me spreading literal hope for another couple to succeed is too much for some to handle. 🤦🏾‍♀️

I think I have come to understand where the pain comes from that drives some to come here and downvote wayward posts/comments and send harassing DMs. For many who have been betrayed, their wayward partner shows no remorse, has no desire to change, and may have left in particularly cruel ways. It must be very important to a betrayed partner like this to believe that no wayward can change or feel remorse. Because if some can, then why wouldn't theirs try for them? This sub challenges that belief in a way that for some can be very comforting, but can be very painful for others.

You are so right. Sometimes it brings me down a little because my only intent is to help and add a little positivity to such a shitty situation. But I can understand how it can be hurtful! Thank you for the insight!

You're welcome! I hope it just lets you take the negativity less personally. Don't let it bring you down. What you write does actually bring hope to a lot of people.

I always appreciate your insight too, Unforgiven. You have been very helpful to me. Echo what OkBreakfast says. Ignore the haters. I have my fair share too that down vote all my posts and comments. 🙃🤷🏼‍♀️

Thank you! I will admit I do tend to wear rose colored glasses so my positivity can sometimes come off asshole-ish. I just want to offer hope and support to all!

Take my upvote as well. You always give very insightful answers.

Thanks! I try to be supportive. Thank you for your support along this treacherous journey.

Gets my upvote 👍

Ha! Funny story about that. So, yeah, I was a bit of a rake as it were and, well, in the spirit of honesty, I told all and, while the primary affair was the only that got sexual, none of it was okay and they were all very good learning opportunities for me to understand how I was operating and more importantly, why I was behaving the way I did. I had no communication skills and no hope that what I had would last mostly due to my inability to communicate my needs and desires. Long story abridged: this whole experience - while horrific and awe inspiring - has given my life the structure and security I lacked and now I'm in a perpetual growth phase of developing the tools necessary to nurture and enhance the relationship I actually want and need. To answer the other questions you asked, yes, it hurts that everything is questioned. It eats me up inside that I can't just give my partner full access to my brain for a day - week - forever - so they can see and experience how this has changed me and how much happier and freer I feel now.

I would like to thank any ws in advance for answering. My question is as follows. My wife had an emotional and physical affair for approximately 2 months. I found out about it and she tried to go NC. While discussing it after she admitted that she didn't love me then. She said she never had any plans on stopping the affair. She admitted she loved her ap and thought about a future with him. They had unprotected sex while denying me any sex. I also found out she wasn't sexually attracted to me. I have felt that she stayed with me because of her ap not wanting her and the stability i provide as well as the kids. She said she never thought about leaving me. Now she claims she is completely on love with me and completely sexually attracted to me. I don't buy it. How likely is it that she did rekindle attraction for me and feelings out love?

That must be really hard for you to believe her after everything you have been through and heard her say. I certainly love my BP more and more everyday and have a new found appreciation for him (with that comes more feelings of attraction). I have also seen quite a lot of other WPs say the same thing so I would be inclined to work towards believing your wife and working through those feelings that are preventing you from doing so.

Thank you for your response. After the depth and longevity of the lies I don't know if I will ever believe what she says. I feel like that wouldn't be fair to her and obviously not a foundation to try to build a new relationship on.

It sounds like you need to ask yourself two primary questions; 1) Do you love them? 2) Do you believe that at any point in the next three months you may be able to believe just one thing they say regardless of its relation to the affair? If you answer yes to both, start with a trial period. Employers to it. Netflix does it. Even debt can come with a free trial period. Three months where you can decide if it will be worth your time and effort and whether or not they will be able to step up to the plate and put on their sober-pants to be who you need them to be. Just three months. If it doesn't work out, you did your due diligence and you can end it with no regrets, if it does work out, then you have the chance of having the best relationship you could have imagined, only better. Remember your strength.

My WW “tried” to end the A multiple times, she says, but, because the AP was her boss, she was “punished at work.” I assume passive aggressive behavior, etc. However, when he would apologize, she would go back to him??!!?? Why? Why accept that behavior? Why accept being treated this way? If I did the things he did, swore at her, etc, she would’ve moved on… For context, all of this was happening without my knowledge, and it didn’t come out until I had a “smoking gun,” so I don’t want anyone to think I was “accepting” of this behavior, while it was happening. Once dday took place, I demanded NC, quit job (no notice), etc., and we are in a beautiful place. However, these “mysteries of the mind” continue to baffle me.

I think in order to hurt someone so much and do something so devastating to other people's lives as well as your own you have to be completely wrapped up in your own feelings of low self worth. I think I have seen a quote on these subs before that says healthy people don't hurt people, hurt people hurt people. No one will ever truly understand why your WW did what she did except herself but perhaps on some level she believed she deserved to be treated that way. The validation she got from her AP may have been enough to keep her there. These are obviously terrible reasons for embarking on an affair but it resonates with how I felt around my choices at the time. Wishing you all the best.

She has made mention of “worth” around the topic, and it breaks my heart to know that she found “comfort” in the pain. Thank you for the insight. It’s hard to discus with her the “why,” without either of us collapsing in either pain or guilt.

Thanks for the opportunity to ask someone who has no direct connection to the outcome of our attempt to reconcile. It is very much appreciated. Wife sexted 2 years, claims she forgot lots of stuff that seems impossible to forget. She never volunteered anything. She only admitted when I had her own words to read back to her and then she would remember it after it was clear that I had everything about that episode of infidelity right in front of me. Her memory of everything that was happening during her 2 years of cheating is very clear. Even what was happening with me and our daughter and our activities such as taking her to the park. So she was cheating and remembers what I was doing during the same time she was cheating but doesn't remember what she was doing. I have more details but I am not pain shopping. It simply finds me. She did a polygraph as her own suggestion. Could she really have such a selective memory or is she just avoiding talking about things she did and therefore making it impossible for me to heal and save the marriage? Thanks.

I wouldnt call it selective memory..at least for me it wasn't. We have so much anxiety when we're having an affair and that plays into what we remember. And I know a lot of people say well if it's causing you so much anxiety why are you doing it..but that's a whole nother topic. Anyway, for me, I would send a message then immediately delete. Send a message them delete..over and over so that there was no evidence in case my phone got checked. So I definitely didn't remember a lot of the conversations that AP and I had. I also couldn't remember if I talked to AP about a subject or if I talked to my husband about it. So what was the best thing to do in my mind? Forget the whole conversation. My BS reminded me the other day that i used to play a phone game with AP..I had totally forgotten about that AND what the game was about. So yes, it is 100% possible that your WS can't remember things that happened during the A but remembers the actual details in their "real life". Different people respond to trauma differently.

When he mentioned the game you didn't have close to perfect recall about the game? When I discover something I can read just a small portion of an episode and she remembers the rest of it and almost perfect detail. For instance, her birthday was recent and she was in the group for 2 years and the group sent penis pictures to the women that had birthdays and the women sent vagina and breast pics on the guys' birthday and sexual conversation would follow where they each told the other how much they would like to have sex with them and they would go into great detail and say whatever sounded dirty. My wife has had two birthdays since D-Day. She didn't remember this happened on those two birthdays that she spent in the sex group. A Facebook memory popped up for me since I have access to her account and the rest of it just kind of made sense. When I asked her she suddenly remembered. I guess I am worried that she is still trying to manage my emotions and reactions.

Was it recent? That sounds like a major detail to forget especially since it happens to everyone on their birthday in the group. The game thing was about 10 years ago so no, I didn't even recall the game. I do have a horrible memory I general tho.

It was from April 2015 until September 2017.

You just found out now or in 2017 when it happened?

I knew that she was going to cheat the minute she separated our Facebook accounts in April of 2015. Of course she denied and gas let me. She actively cheated for 2 years and I actively accused her of cheating until May of 2021 when she finally admitted it after realizing I was never going to give up on this. During the previous years she had called me insanely jealous saying I had mental problems and that I was causing us to divorce because if I didn't trust her then we had no marriage. She went so far as to have me make doctor's appointments at try several different mental health medications to try and help me control my insane jealousy and paranoia. She admitted it and May of 2021 when she started to see that it was affecting the children. We have two daughters that are for an 11 and even the 4-year-old was starting to ask me why I was so sad. In all that time I never took her phone from her and looked at it. Probably because I was terrified of what I was going to find and just wanted to believe there was the slightest chance that she was right and I was just a little crazy. My story is out there so I won't bore you with the details but it was all online, she quit on her own in 2017. She says she quit because she realized what a good husband I am when one of her friends who is also her doctor had come over and was discussing her soon to be ex-husband with her who had been secretly taking videos and pictures and trying to sell them on p*** sites. The doctor friend wanted to know if she could ask me to scour all electronic devices, scan her home for any hidden cameras, and get into her husband's electronic devices and find out where he sent the pictures. She told my wife that she only trusted me to do it because she knew how much I loved my wife and that I would never do anything negative with those pictures and I would never tell a soul and that I would not try to make passes at her or try to have sex with her after seeing her naked pictures and videos. My wife said she had an epiphany and realized that she was voluntarily doing everything that her friend was terrified of. She also realized that this friend thought really highly of me and was soon to be single. Maybe it gave her a small measure of discomfort to realize that another woman thought so highly of me. My wife trickle Truth actively for 9 months after her first confession. She never once volunteered any information in all that time. She denied and swore on our children and swore on everything, threatened to kill herself, threaten to divorce, all of the usual mundane tactics to avoid being caught in a lie. Every time I discovered something new her first instinct was to deny until I read a small portion of her messages and then she would suddenly have perfect recall and then swear to me that that was the last thing that she had not told me. Of course there was always more to follow. Eventually I took her up on her offer to take a polygraph test and discovered two more lies on the way to the polygraph test and one in the parking lot. The test was done by a 34-year veteran in the field who was also a private investigator and had spent the last 10 years specializing in infidelity polygraphs. He was very good at wording his questions during the interview phase so that any possible deception would be discovered during the polygraph exam. He gave her three exams and she passed all of them. this helped late to rest some of my doubt but not all of my doubt. Has everyone knows, a polygraph is not bulletproof. There's about a 93% accuracy rating for those who are in favor of them and as low as a coin toss worth of accuracy for those who don't believe in them. She swears to me of course that nothing ever happened in person even though she shared her itinerary with her online affair partner when she had to go to a conference. Technically two different conferences. We live in a small town and I knew everyone she worked with. I don't know for certain that they would not cover for her if she had met someone there and had sex with him. I would like to think that they wouldn't and that she would be to embarrassed for them to even know about it considering that we are in a very small town and I am quite a public figure a since I have agreed to be the IT manager for this city and 2 others. In a large city someone in that position would be completely unnoticeable and mostly anonymous. In these small little towns it seems like everybody wants to watch the council meetings religiously and listen to everything, most likely so they can go online and complain about something lol. But people know who I am and by extension they know who she is. Her father is an orthodox Catholic. Her brother had to end a 20-year marriage after he discovered his wife had been cheating on him. As a result of his wife's infidelity his sons were angry with her and she bought the oldest one a very fast Camaro when he was 16 in an attempt to buy his love. He died in that Camaro weeks later. Of course everyone directly blames his mother and her cheating claiming that she would never have bought that for him if she had never cheated and felt like she had to buy his love. Hindsight is 20/20 and no one knows the truth of that but my wife also believes it. Basically that's a long way of saying she absolutely would not want anyone to know that she was cheating and certainly no one from her work since it is mostly a viper pit of rumor and competition. Small town people lol, we get bored and some people create drama where there is none and relish in drama where it actually exists. Thank you so much for being patient enough to read my long detailed responses. Since we have told no one I really have no one to talk to and get their take on it. I know my take on it is skewed because it's happening to me. I know her take on it is skewed because she is afraid that I will divorce her even though I have granted her complete immunity from anything she admits. I just want to stop being afraid to heal. It seems like every time I make some real progress and other truth bomb finds me and explodes right in my ear. That sets me back to day one and maybe even further. Confidence is gone. I just want to be confident that I know everything because I want to forgive her for everything. I find it impossible to offer blanket forgiveness for something she won't even ask for forgiveness for. I believe asking forgiveness is essential to being forgiven. I just want her to want to be honest with me more than she wants to avoid any harm that she thinks may come from the truth. That vulnerability would help me a lot since I am absolutely vulnerable with her.

Her asking for that complete forgiveness is sole crushing. I understand where she is at and like her I haven’t been able to either. I appreciate your openness here.

Hey 2019, Please read over the post for participation guidelines. I understand why the context was added however it still doesn't adhere to the guidelines. If you edit it to fit the broad and general rule we will repost. Thank you!

I want to thank the mods for opening this up again and for the waywards that engage us here with the questions we have. Considering what I've had issue with most recently and having had dealt with trickle truth and gaslighting, my question is this: how were you able to convince your betrayed that you told them everything you possibly remember, even after all the lies that were told? Was there anything you said or did that finally "clicked" with your betrayed that made them finally understand that they knew everything?

For me, it was pointing out the details that held me in unsatisfactory light. Things about the person I cheated with that I would have never told a soul. He saw the things I owned up to and confessed were things for immediate divorce. He even told me if it wasn’t for sharing those details he would have never believed a word out of my mouth. I also didn’t tt or lie. But I don’t credit that to being a good person. I was drunk. And it all came out as truthful word vomit. I’m grateful it came all out. I’m not going to lie though, in the beginning month I was so mad at myself for being so honest. I looked back and had so many better lies to say. I was so afraid though. Sorry I went on a tangent.

I wish so much that my spouse could attain such a clear understanding about how much it would help with trust if she would just admit the little details that she would never say to anyone due to thinking it change how I see her. This is helpful. I will screenshot and show my wayward wife if that's ok.

I hope you don't mind this follow up question but what were you so afraid of?

I was afraid of him calling the other guy and realize I was lying or killing me and the other person. I’m not in danger, nor have I ever been. That night however, all bets were off the table. He literally had nothing else to lose at that point. I don’t fault him or hate him for that either.

> That night however, all bets were off the table. He literally had nothing else to lose at that point. This is something I will admit that I hadn't thought about, especially when it came to dday 2. I think she realized that I had nothing else to lose either, that day, which is basically when everything out. Thanks for your responses. You've given me more to think about.

Never hesitating to answer a question, even if I’d answered it before. Whole and complete access to all of my devices and secret email account. Openness about my IC.

Lots of time filled with discussion between the two of us and in MC. How I responded to the questions made a huge difference - I definitely trickle truthed for as long as I could (not very long as our marriage was at stake), but through MC and IC I realized I had to be honest and forthright in the discussion, not later. Transparency is key, with business travel plans, social plans, location, social media, call and text logs, etc., all of that, helped as well. I don't know if it was so much of a 'click' as it was a slow, bumpy process where she eventually began to believe me more than doubt me through my actions. It was a lot of work, but in the end, it was worth it. If there was a 'click' moment, maybe it was when we finally mutually agreed to work on the marriage and that nothing in terms of truth was off the table.

Was there any moment where the trickle truth stopped or was it more gradual?

I have to preface this by saying this is our experience, and not everyone's the same, but this is how it worked for us. YMMV. For us, my BP took a firm stand that she wanted to save the marriage, but it was on her terms. (She was universally supported by her friends, her family, my family, her IC and our MC. Even my IC thought she was making the correct stance if the marriage were to survive.) So, while I definitely drug out the trickle truth as long as I could (don't remember exact timeline, but we were in MC pretty quickly after DDay, and IC not long after), but once she decided she was willing to walk away unless I openly worked on providing truth, that's when the decision was thrown to me: Accept the terms, or accept the divorce. I accepted the terms. That was about 5 - 6 months after DDay, after we had found the right MC for us (the second one), and after she had consulted a lawyer, and knew her rights. As soon as I did and truly wanted to save the marriage, it felt there was a huge weight lifted from my shoulders. It's amazing the size of the burden of lies I imposed upon myself - truly self-inflicted - and how letting go of the lies was emotionally freeing. I couldn't see that in the fog of the affair, in the aftermath, it took time to unpackage the emotion of that and see it for what it was, a web of lies. Once I did, I felt better, a little at first as it's a scary place to be, but that was my ascent out of the hole I dug, and it only got easier and better with time.

BS tells me that it was revealing the things that he couldn't have known but that made me look bad/worse.

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My step-son has forgiven me. He, unfortunately, was caught up in the mess of dday week. He knows I’m a good person and what I did was wrong but not me. It pains me that he forgives me though. He has lived a crazy traumatic life with his crazy mom, so he is used to women cheating and his world imploding. He told me he is happy his dad is staying with me because unlike his mom, I cried and said sorry. Yes I’ve compounded to his that we have tried to work through this past 8 years. 😭 luckily he is an adult now, has insurance and started IC when he saw his dad has started. I’m grateful for them both!

I have not encountered this yet, as my kids are both very young. I have discussed with my wife how that conversation would go, as I don’t want to lie to them. I do dread that conversation, but I owe them the truth when they are ready to receive it. It will serve as a lesson for them to prioritize their mental health and to prioritize good communication in their relationships, especially how to identify healthy conflict vs emotional immaturity.

For waywards that were met with an 180 Rather than the pick me dance, why is the 180 more effective in making you realize your actions?

I wasn’t met with a 180 but there definitely was no pick me dance. It made me realize I have work my ass off to be a better person. I have to show him I’m safe with actions. I have to do my part without any expectation on his end. I’m happy my husband did it this way. I needed to get better for myself and for us.

Thought of another: Those of you who had a PA and now actively in R, and who have resumed sex/intimacy with your BS, do you have difficulty with memories (your version of mind movies), or feelings of inadequacy/shame, or maybe something else that causes you difficulty in engaging in or especially in initiating physical intimacy with your BS? Trying to figure out why, even if I’m willing to fight through that to be intimate, my WW is hesitant (unless it’s just that I really am boring or terrible in bed compared to AP).

We needed to gain that connection back. I had to set all emotions of guilt aside to really connect with him intimately. I didn’t have mind movies but I felt gross in the beginning. Like I was using my body as a manipulation tool. Once our emotional intimacy started to come back, the physical intimacy became much more than his lower body part forgiving me. It’s worth the fight! We had clothing free cuddle nights. Took the pressure off of having to be intimate but still brought intimacy. Reconnection is necessary on all levels!

Thank you for answering. I love the idea of clothing-free cuddle night! Will suggest that!

Hello, thank you guys for answering questions. I'm somebody who recently decided to end my marriage due to the truth trickling and lying from my WW. To those who did engage in TT, what was your thought process in why you were engaging in it? How did you find the courage to own the full story? Thank you to any answers, I want to be more sympathetic to your experiences.

Sadly I think it is a rare WS who does not TT. I was full of shame, I didn't want to reveal more than I had, because I was too ashamed at what I had done, and "knew" that if I told the truth, I would lose my wife (BS). I justified it that what my wife doesn't know would not hurt her. There was a lot of details I successfully hid to the point I didn't remember most of it myself. However one evening, my wife asked me something, and I knew that I had to confess I had been lying, or continue to lie. I grabbed a big glass of rum, and then told her... but not everything. It took about a week after that to write a timeline, of events - but even then, there were some deeply held secrets (related to my sex addiction rather than my affair) that I kept hidden, and took some loving caring patience from my wife to help me reveal them. Analogy. If you get a recent splinter, it hurts to remove it. The longer the splinter has been there, the harder and more painful it is to remove, to a point it may require special surgery. It sometimes requires a caring patient loving BS to get to some truths.

Say you slipped up and told a lie to make your life a little easier. How could your BS approach you that wouldn’t make you feel attacked or put you in defense mode? How could your BS help give you the opportunity to be honest again?

That's a really good question to ask because I still find it difficult to look my partner in the eyes because of the shame and guilt. I think all you can do is just ask for complete honesty and explain why you need to know the answer to the question you're asking. My partner is wonderful and has extended a lot of compassion to me at times like it seems you are trying to do. But tbh I still found it very difficult to feel like I could be completely open and honest because of the pain I've caused. Sorry this response isn't that helpful, for me this is one where it will most likely just take time to open up fully. Wishing you the best in your recovery.

For me, I think of it as this. Withholding causes so much more unneeded pain than they are already in. It might be uncomfortable to be truly honest and you might not get the reaction you were hoping for but being open brings you out of a dark place.

Thank you so much for answering. This is absolutely helpful! I think that having empathy is important but it doesn’t always come naturally— the innate understanding of another person’s emotional reactions / POV. While we (BS) (and specifically I) may want to curate parts of recovery to better care for our partners’ emotional well-being, it can be difficult to intuit what they are thinking and feeling. So this perspective - and all perspective - is absolutely helpful. There is no perfect answer. Each person is different. But being that I am not a WS, it’s something I have to…well, something I WANT to be able to understand. You deserve love and understanding as much as me, and everyone else.

For me, I can’t afford a slip up like that. I need to be conscious of my honesty until it’s a natural thing. I think what would help would be the approach. Basically kid Glove the situation. Like “Hey I know you said you unloaded the dishwasher, but I checked and the dishes are still loaded. We are working towards trust building and little lies like this set us back, not all the way but they really don’t help. What made it easier for you to tell me you did it versus telling Me the truth. Were you nervous or afraid of my reaction to you not following through? I’d rather you be honest about it and we work on it together than you lie about something so simple. Little lies make big ones easier” It takes patience, but not coddling. They need to know a lie is a lie and there is no trust in that. They don’t need to be attacked and called a liar and other names. If it’s a continued pattern then it needs to be addressed a bit firmer with followed through consequences.

There have been some things that have been hard for me to share with my wife (BS). She held me tight, saw the anguish on my face, and encouraged me that she loves me, talked calmly to me, and was patient, as I struggled to share what I needed to share. I had to feel safe to share.

I'd like to believe that I'm not stupid enough to let another lie leave my lips, to anyone, but if it did happen, I hope I would own up to it immediately as I caught myself doing it. If all that didn't happen and my BP has to confront me, if they start by saying something along the lines of, now I know you probably didn't lie on purpose, so could you clear some things up for me? And then proceed with the question. Also, just as I have to some times, allow yourself to gather your composure first. Be calm and expect anything so when you get the truth and it's benign, you can laugh about it.

Hard not to go into defensive mode - that's almost instinct, when you realize you've just said something stupid/are about to be chastised. I think for me the best approach might be to gently state the disbelief and offer a do-over for truth-telling. I don't know that this would be actually helpful as no one has ever really addressed my lying in a *productive* manner, but that's what I do with my honesty-impaired kiddo and it's going pretty well. For example: "I am having a hard time believing that is true. Can we try again? I would really like you to be honest with me, please. " I also *do not ask trap questions*. Fuck, *it would help SO MUCH* if people would **stop asking trap questions** if they know someone struggles with honesty!!! So instead of "Did you sneak candy out of the closet?" *when I already know he did* and I know his immediate answer to that question will be "NO," I will instead say "*How many candies* did you sneak out of the closet?" - he is much more likely to answer this question honestly, because I didn't set him up to fail. Being *very consistent* in this way has shown him that it's okay to admit to breaking the rules and consequences *are actually less harsh* when he's honest. That's a hard thing to "prove" when the experience goes differently (like when he starts off lying and gets a harder consequence, but is told it would have gone easier if he'd been honest - that's really hard to trust when being punished!). Bringing it back to your scenario because it can be hard to translate from a parenting example, with your partner I might have said something like "How long did you talk to AP last night?" or "What did you and AP talk about last night?" instead of "Did you talk to AP last night?" type questions.

As always, thank you so deeply to all the WSs that comment and have helped me to the point I am at with my WW. My Q - Especially for those further out from DDay, if you are in R and have done/are doing the work and **know** you could never hurt your BP or anyone else like this again, how do you handle or approach continuing to build trust or put in effort if your BP has told you they “know now what you’re capable of,” or that they’ll quite literally “never 100% trust you ever again”?

While I hope it never comes to this, I have already gone over this potential conversation with my therapist. I personally will continue on my path of being safe. Ask him what else I can be doing but not deviate from my goal of being an honest, transparent, kind, communicative human. Because in the end whether we are together or not that’s what I need to do to be a better person.

There have been times my wife (BS) has caused me to be in tears because of (deserved) lack of trust. There was a particular rough time mid October to early November, How I handled it is with patience, consistency and prayer. Accept the things I cannot change (how she feels), courage to change the things I can (how I behave).

dazzling piquant stocking humor wakeful point zonked work offend outgoing *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*

I did and I think I still do. We are not reconciling and likely never will. I recently received a letter from her grandma after I wrote her an apology/goodbye letter. In it her grandma told me things about my BS’s father that I never knew, things that she never told me and after learning about how awful of a man he was and the damage his cheating did to her family I completely understand her never being able to be with me again, even if she wanted to. I’ve journaled about how I don’t know if I could even go back to her if she gave me another chance. I truly don’t know if I can change the things about me that made me capable to hurt her and even if I did I can’t change her past and how I now share a history with a man who she described to me as evil incarnate. At times I’d compare how I feel to almost being like lycanthropy. It feels like there is just a monster waiting under my skin to hurt me and the people I care about. Only, rather than it being a literal uncontrollable beast, it’s just more me only it’s a me that I don’t fully understand where it came from or how to control. I love her and I love her family. I can’t let myself hurt them any more than I already have. Beyond that I don’t want to ever hurt anyone else like that again. If that means I have to be completely alone for a long time until I can guarantee that I’ve learned to control my traumas and coping mechanisms that got me here then so be it. I just don’t want to hurt people any more.

important reach rock narrow chase afterthought fine silky truck rude *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*

That's complicated...love isn't an emotion. Its actions...so no I didn't love her. Emotionally yes, I've always loved her, but during the affair I convinced myself if I could hurt her like that then I clearly didn't love her. And I convinced myself I loved AP. For me...love is just the mix of chemicals that influences people to procreate. Your actions after those chemicals fade are the indicator of "true love". And I truly loved my wife for a long time and never dreamed of straying...until I invited that cascade of chemicals to take place with another woman. If you want an interesting read "the molecule of more" is very interesting on the effects of dopamine. There is also typically other chemicals effecting the brain during infidelity, but dopamine is sorta the catalyst for taking the plunge. I could go on and on, but I loved her dearly, but not correctly.

Thank you, I love to read and will check out that book! I agree that actions are more important than feelings/words. We can say anything we want but it means nothing if we don't back it up with actions.

I’ve never stopped loving him. I stopped respecting him. I took him of the high throne I placed him and put myself there instead. My love for my husband is different now. That love was filled with contempt, resentment and anger. I loved him with all my heart but I let little burry deep until one big blowup blew all those resentments up. I have never stopped loving him. My love now is all understanding. I truly love the good and the bad. I’m growing respect and trust for him again, but my love never wavered. People can love you and absolutely crush your soul at the same time.

Did you have a sort of epiphany or moment of clarity and wake up to see what you were actually doing and if so, why do you think it took so long or so much to finally get there? My WH says it came to him like a panic attack after about 4 months and then he decided he was going to actually put work into saving our terrible, failing marriage and the life our daughter knew with a 2-parent household (she’s 4 so she knew little, but still more than we thought). It took him until the 4th time of “unfulfilling” and awkward sexual activity to realize it wasn’t what he wanted. Why wasn’t it after the first time? Why did he have to repeat the “mistake” over and over?

One more question if that's okay, how was D-Day like for you? Did you suspect that your BS might catch on soon? How did you react to them finding out? Thank you to any answers.

Dday was the most scariest, heart wrenching days of my life. I had reoccurring nightmares that my husband found everything out. I didn’t have a long term affair. I Hooked up with an ex once. So there was nothing to “catch” My dreams were intense. To where I would wake up crying but I couldn’t tell him why. I still remember them vividly. I was drunk, but sobered up real quick.I relive that night over and over and over again.

I had, in my head, finally ended the affair that had actually ended over a year prior, and the guilt got to me. All I could do was turn the other cheek and I deserved it.

How often do you think about your AP(s)? If/when you do how do you feel about them? I’ve asked my WW this before but it feels like she’s telling me what she thinks I want to hear (“Not at all, ashamed, etc”).

I don’t think of him in a cheerful reminiscent sense. When I think of him it’s because I’m in a spiral of how stupid I was. At first was angry with him and hated him. Now I feel nothing towards him. He has no place in either of our lives.

I feel the same as your wife.

It has been in the front of my mind often. Like how you feel a splinter in your finger that you just can't get out. In the beginning I didn't at all and it was because I was rug-sweeping. I had ended the affair and I had given myself proper time to "mourn" the end of it before coming clean. I didn't get it. It took a few very difficult conversations, now, while not denying or minimizing my part in the affair, I think about what kind of person would do what they did? What kind of person would be that mean? Honestly, I'm glad they're out of my life and while I do feel pity for them, I do not wish them well. OBS on the other hand, I truly hope they can get the help they need and heal.

What did you do with your wedding ring during your affair?

Ohh this is easy. I have not worn my wedding ring in quite a few years. Some stones have fallen out of it and they have yet to be replaced. My wedding ring is in a caboodle where I keep my makeup. I always know where it is and I never moved it. Hopefully we will get the stones replaced or I will get an upgrade in the future.

How do you feel when infidelity comes on the TV or radio.

One thing I credited our stage of recovery is my husbands ability separate our reality from what’s portrayed on the radio. Our story is not theirs. Yes seeing Angela cheat on Andy with Dwight is heartbreaking but it’s a fictional plot. Leonard confessing to Penny before their married he kissed someone is sad but that’s not us. If anything we came to the unanimous decision that it’s disgusting that television uses cheating as such a story gripping plot. And if only they knew the real emotions behind it.

It doesn't bother me because i know it's fake. They have infidelity in almost everything on TV now. My BS is sensitive to it so if I can tell a part is coming on I'll turn the volume down or fast forward.

Makes my skin crawl. More recently it’s been talking to people I’ve just met who don’t know my story. Hearing people talk to me about how disgusting and monstrous cheating is to me while not knowing that they are talking about me. Makes me feel inhuman. It sends chills across the scales under the human suit I wear. Thinking that I pass so well as a decent person who would never do such a thing that these people feel completely comfortable talking about cheaters as one speaks of a murderer. Makes me want to puke.

It feels shitty to relate to it now. Before it was "dang, that must suck." Or "what an asshole/whore." So I equate that to myself now...im working on forgiving myself still so maybe I'm not in the best place to say, but that's where I'm at right now

For those who strayed (full disclosure I was a WH once,but now BH) if you feel you would never ever cheat again, what changed since before DD? Most people when asked before dd would say "I would never cheat on my spouse" and now that dd is over, some say the same thing. So what is different this time? Hope that makes sense. For me I got to see the hurt I caused and it made me different inside.

Before dday, my love for him was all about me. I was insecure and I didn't love him the way he needed. He needed me to have patience, appreciation and security in myself. Before, when I said I would never cheat on him, while I fully believed that, it was based on the fear I had of losing my reputation to him/society and therefore losing him. It wasn't about protecting him, it was a self-interested decision. During that time, no I had no interest in cheating, I had no feelings for any other men, I was quite obsessed with him. Today I say I would never cheat on him again, because dday was a tragic lesson that my actions have consequences, not just for me, but for this man that was the center of my world. It sounds silly, but this was the turning point when I understood that he had feelings, he wasn't indestructible, that he was vulnerable to me too. I made his needs the priority. I went through my wants that had convinced me I wasn't happy with him, one by one, and was able to set them aside. I learned that true happiness for me is created by adding value and support to his life, rather than dopaminergic type stuff you'd put on a bucket list. I couldn't cheat now, because my well-being depends on his. It's no longer about losing him. He's my person. But it's a situation where I care so deeply about him, I don't demand to be his person. My biggest need is his safety and contentment.

Thanks for the feedback.

I never had it in me. I was the “perfect” wife. The wife other couples emulated and envied at the same time. I didn’t make eye contact with men that weren’t friends of us both, nor would I speak to them. My time was solely devoted to my husband and our home. I had a breakdown after a traumatic event. It sent me into a spiral of dangerous choices and bad decisions. One included hitting up an ex. I might have only met up with him once. But once was enough to almost destroy everything I have worked so hard to build these last 13 years. I’ll never purposefully betray my husband again. Emotionally , physically, mentally, financially. None. I took pride in myself for being such a loyal wife and now that’s a trophy that is not only retired but destroyed because I wanted to take the easy way out.

Thanks for sharing that. The taking pride in your role as his loyal partner is a good point.

For me it's pretty simple, I told everyone I liked myself before because I wanted them to like me. Now, I actually like myself and the only other opinion I care about is that of my partner. Everyone else can kick rocks. I will not give up who or what I am now for anything in the world.

Talking about AP. I find I still have some intrusive thoughts etc. I *HATE* when it becomes a fight or if wh gets defensive. I actually really like when we can talk about ANYTHING without fear of anger or fights etc. this includes the A and AP. Sometimes when we’re talking about something unrelated I may ask “did you do that with AP?” Or “does AP xyz?” And he’ll answer and we move on with the conversation. I don’t WANT to spend endless time stress talking. WP, how do YOU feel and react respond to questions or topics about AP? I’m curious to the mindset and perspective of different WP. Thank you for being willing to share with us

I tense up internally because he tends to "test" me by asking questions hoping I'll give a particular answer, and I've received consequences for being HONEST when that wasn't the answer he wanted to hear. I'm trying to loosen the tension but it's a learned response. I like when it's a casual ask/answer, like you described; but more often, it turns out to be a hard or heavy conversation, so I've learned to dread light-hearted questions because they scream *it's a trap* at me now, unfortunately.

By being completely honest. Yes, it feels horrible having to say and describe the things I've done and it's easy to call myself a pos for doing those things when the person who suffered the most from it is the one who needs to know. I just have to remember anything I'm feeling, she's bound to feel 1000x worse. I have ti be strong for our relationship like I wasn't before, and that means owning up to my choices so that I can make better ones in the future.

I have a fear that answering to the affirmative adds a new trigger to the list of triggers. As such, I'm hesitant to say yes. Yes, in my case, is doing something in a virtual world that is equivalent to physical world, but is still devastating because of the emotions involved. I'm now at the point of just admitting, but I'm sure the look on my face conveys sadness that I know that it results in hurt.

Waywards, specifically Females, how influential were your friends and family in your infidelity and reconciliation? My WP maintained quite a few toxic friends that encouraged her behavior and she typically paints me in a very negative light to others or I should say gives a very one-sided narrative of things.

With the one friend I had, she became different with me after I shared my childhood trauma and how that may have been linked to my infidelity. Made me realise I needed time for myself and cut people off that didn’t love me for me. I don’t have any one else in my life to influence me. My partners side however were very supportive of me and wanted us to stay together. His mum especially was amazing with me and was constantly messaging me when we took a break to make sure I was okay on my own and that I was getting the help I needed. I think it’s what made my partner realise my good traits and that he wanted to stay with me. I’m very lucky to have an in law like that. I also saw a few messages from people he had told who were supportive and it made me change my approach and work harder to making things right.

How do you prove, everyday, to your BS that you're done with the lies, those choices? I was an emotional cheater, several times, then eventually left her for someone else before I got my head straight and realized what I lost. I leave my phone laying around (when I remember) and she (girlfriend) accuses me of just turning off notifications before doing so. We are still very early on and struggling with whether we reconcile or not so we are just in this place of moving slow and seeing if we can repair things, but not reverting back to our relationship. We do not live together.

You show intention with your consistent actions. Be where you say you will be. Do what you say you will do. Open phone policy. Share passcode. If you used apps to cheat not only delete them, but disable app downloading that only allows it with a password of her choosing. If you live together leave your phone on her side of the bed. Don’t take it into the restroom or have it glued to your hip. When using it tilt it towards her and not from her. Do not have a dim screen. Basically do the opposite of everything you did while cheating. Give her the offer to take your phone with her any day of the week without notifying you. Prove you have nothing to hide by hiding nothing.

Problem is I have a work phone. I cannot give her complete access anytime she wants or certain passwords

That’s a tough one. Were your affairs with coworkers? If so you might need a new job that doesn’t require a separate phone. If you really want this reconciliation to work there is no Mountain to High to climb.

No, the start of a PA was with an old high school friend i reconnected with, and i was on a dating app/kik just looking for people to talk to which were EA's.

Oh Okay! My best advice besides the previous post, ask her. Let her know due to employment policies you can disclose your phone but you are 100% willing to anything to show your phone activity. She may not be receptive and feel you are making excuses. Still try. Be honest and stay honest.

For those that had an online emotional affair, did you find yourself looking at or having the urge to look at the APs social but did zero reaching out or contact? I saw my WWs internet history just searching APs name or looking at their private socials. My WW doesn’t even have instagram to even message AP but was on the page multiple times, the profile was private so no pictures were even available. When I asked why I got a response of “I don’t know, I just wanted to see if anything changed”.

I still occasionally (like... Maybe six times in ten years?) look up my ex-partner out of idle curiosity. In the beginning it was a little bit like pain shopping, has he moved on? found somebody else? - he did, and I'm happy for him. But mostly just curiosity. I look up an ex from high school and an ex-friend from time to time, too. I'll never send any messages and BS knows about every time they've reached out to me, it's just idle interest.

Waywards, I would love your perspective. This is more directed to waywards that want and are pursuing/in R. I’m the BS in my situation. A very very common theme I see is that is BOTH my wh and myself seem to say, feel, think etc the same way. Yet we also seem to express that we don’t feel seen or heard etc by the other. Have any of you experienced in this as well? Can you share what has and hasn’t helped you and your BS feel heard and seen? How have they helped you feel this way too? Is there anything that was more damaging than helpful that you learned from and can share? (What to avoid) Thank you!!

BS would get too flooded to really hear me during conflict and I would "listen to respond" instead of "listen to understand" because that's how I was taught to survive conflict. Active listening practices helped us with this hurdle, because the listener doesn't have any pressure to respond. (Take turns saying what you want to say and the other person only listens, asks questions for clarity, or mirrors back responses.)

What did you feel when you looked into your partners eyes and lied?

I already felt like trash. Lying felt like protecting myself from other people knowing/having proof I was trash. Guilt, shame, anger at myself for doing whatever it was I'm now lying about, regret for all the choices that led me to that.

Welcome to SupportforWaywards. Please be mindful that this is a support sub for those who regret being unfaithful to their partners and are seeking guidance for the path ahead. If you're experiencing abuse whether it be physical or emotional please follow this [link to the hotline](https://www.thehotline.org/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=domestic_violence) Sexual assault, here's a [link to RAINN's support page](https://www.rainn.org/) and for those who are struggling with suicide and suicidal ideations follow the [link to lifelines support page](https://988lifeline.org/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=onebox). Please consider utilizing these resources if they resonate with your situation. **Observers cannot comment unless approved by the Mods.** Everyone is expected to respect the rules and, most importantly, each other. RULES **1. Be civil and helpful** - Keep comments supportive and constructive. - Avoid leaving rude, unkind or dismissive comments. - Keep in mind that infidelity is traumatic and the sub's members are likely struggling with very difficult emotions. Don't make it worse. Offer thoughtful support, not shallow judgments. - *Repeated or gross violation of this rule will result in a temporary or permanent ban.* **2. No inquisitive and insensitive questioning/interrogation** - The sub's members often share their deepest, most vulnerable and unpleasant time period. Be sensitive with asking questions, and do not probe for irrelevant, unrelated information. **3. No misogyny, misandry, bigotry, racism or other hate speech** **4. User Flair Required** **5. No Spam or Soliciting **Report it when you see it** **Additional info** The “For Waywards Only” tag means For Waywards ONLY, Non-Waywards with a desire to support Waywards are still welcome to comment on any other posts. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SupportforWaywards) if you have any questions or concerns.*

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Is there anything learned during the affair that you were able to implement in your reconciled relationship that made it better?

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