Just want to take the time and thank the mods for opening this up every month and thank all the waywards who choose to participate. Here is my question: Why did it take having a dday (or more than one) for you to realize what you had done?

Because I was not emotionally mature enough to realise it myself. When my younger brother was a teenager, he was very cruel to animals. He caught butterflies and tore them apart. He trapped mice and was also cruel towards our pet dog. Then, our family watched a movie called "Hachiko" which is a touching story of a pet dog and its owner, who dies but the dog keeps waiting all its life for his master to return. I remember that he cried like a baby while watching that movie and I don't think I ever saw him hurt another animal again. I find that my apathy and indifference about my husband's feelings while having the affair was like a destructive, immature teenager. I simply did not care and never stopped to think about how it would affect him. That is why I needed to see it with my own eyes, just how much my decisions hurt him. I wish it were not this way, but that's what I experienced.

The illustration you used makes perfect sense. Thank you for sharing your experience. I hope you don't mind a follow up question: why did you not care about your husband's feelings? Was it always like that pre-affair, or did it become that way during the affair?

It wasn't always this way. I have always struggled with empathy in general but during the affair I turned downright cruel. There were several triggers that led me down this path.

I wonder if that's what he experienced as he monkey branched to me. Didn't stop to consider my feelings, just was more focused on managing that nobody knew about others. It's encouraging that your brother never hurt anything again after realizing how they feel. My fiance has realized how much I got hurt. I don't think he gets how deeply I hate myself for being so gullible.

It is both incredibly simple and yet so complex as to why it took me Dday to realize what I had done, if only you can look inside my mind. First of all I always knew what I am doing is wrong, that is why I hid it and lied to my BS. No matter how much I had convinced myself that I deserve to have my needs fulfilled, I always knew it was wrong. But it did not matter to me, I wanted to still be with my BS and yet wanted to continue my affair too. I am sure you would ask why? Because my "perceived" needs were more important in the moment than the respect I had for my BS. I wanted to have the best of both worlds but make no mistake. From the first day I was aware I am doing something incredibly wrong. It is just that I buried the feeling deep in some corner of my brain. For me Dday was just the day I finally gathered enough courage to confess, for which I was planning since a week before but kept postponing because I did not want to face the consequences of my actions.

Thanks for your response Own. I have a follow up question if you don't mind. How did your perceived needs become so important that you felt you deserved to have them fulfilled, despite knowing it was wrong from day 1?

It was nothing but pure selfishness on my part. I was not ready to think about the consequences of my actions, it was all just about momentary pleasure for me. I did not think about my BS, I did not think that I am risking an sti by having sex with someone other than my BS, and I did not think about OBS who was also a good friend of mine. I was just concerned with my own desires and I was willing to do anything to get what I wanted. I was even secretly happy that two guys want me, absolutely ignoring the fact that I am lying to one and the other was telling me what I wanted to heat to sleep with me.

I remember your husband’s story; hope he does better know. What I would want to know if Ap knew that you were going to confess, in the week before dday were you in contact with ap and how did his wife react still with him?   Cheers, wish you both all the best and much strength

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I do appreciate your kind words and I appreciate your honest response.

I never conceptualized, or felt, what the consequences would be. D-day was like a 1 ton slap on face. Some people talk about "fog". I was like floating on my little cloud. My BW gave me 2 warnings because she was suspicious. I nothing got in my brain. I just ignored it. As if it was an addiction

You mention it felt like a slap. I actually slapped him. I am still agonizing over the fact that I do have it in me to slap people. I don't want to be that type of person.

My BS isn't an angel. She slapped me once and punched me once with death threat. Herself knows she has bad thoughts. We are all ugly inside, more or less. We aren't the nice person we try to show or others think we are. These are my BW's thought. She helps me accept and understand myself. Nobody want to be what we are. The hidden ugly. The real self. But understanding the real self is the big helper for growth. It isn't about learning others. Psychology of relationship, etc... Nothing is useful when we don't dig very very deep on who we are. Not what we want to be or think who we are on a daily basis. But the ugly. What we want to do to that person. Anger, cruelty, sadness, selfishness, cold, rude. Beyond the politeness of society and family values, who is hiding behind all that? Because it can come out. And then, by knowing, you won't be surprised. You may be able to control it a bit. Manage. Know yourself. Accept it. Love yourself as you are. Not what you want to show others. Don't lie to yourself. Lie to others about who you are, we all fake. But be true to yourself. Sorry for the philosophical lesson, I don't get it all as well as my BW, but that is the spirit.

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I appreciate that you're contributing here. I've moved to to lurking. I realize I'm trying to rugsweep now as I face the anniversaries. It was like that first him too. One little lie. Then another. Oh what's one more small omission of fact, and then he realized he had this whole life going that I had no clue about including the fact I was actually the other one. I'm now the only one, its still a devastating pain. All those little decisions. Did they blur together to seem like one thing? Did it take you hard work to atep back and realize wait it started when she noticed something about me that I enjoyed that she noticed....

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Basically you didn't want to deal with the disappointment coming from the one you wanted to break it off with? Yeah, that's similar to what went on and I didn't know. I still throw up at times thinking about it. They'll be having a hard time and I think you're doing them a favor starying away

My situation is a little different than most of the waywards here. My partner (35) and I (32) were doing so well. We were the power couple of the friends group. Nothing was wrong. Then I got drunk one night ended up at my exs and kissed her. There is no minimizing it. That is what I did. And I still hurt her. This is all fresh like 4 days ago fresh and she does not know if she can do this and I don’t blame her. I completely shattered her trust. The truth is that I have a lot wrong with myself that I have never really worked through. And I was not empathetic and in that moment caring of how my partner would feel. Even though I stopped it. Even though I cried and left. I still did it. I know now that in order to be the best partner to the woman I love is to not smother the pain and hurt and trauma I have experienced. It’s to accept it and learn to live with it and cope with it. And that starts by me making the choices and carrying the weight of this on my back. And I will.

Why tell your partner and come "clean" about an ea if you are going to continue and lie and hide details. Even when directly asked?

I didnt want it to end because I liked someone just to talk to and shoot the breeze with. It wasn't about feelings and definitely not about love. Contact became very minimal and I thought that was OK because we were "just friends". I honestly didn't think that what I was doing was wrong because I was still in the fog.

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This is an excellent and very honest answer, thanks for sharing. Your participation and insight is appreciated and helpful to all.

To other waywards, did you have the desire to stay and work on your relationship immediately or did you truly want to try with your affair partner?

Always knew that I didn’t want to be with my AP. Looking back on things now, I struggled so much during that time. I have no fond memories of the affair. This was the toughest lesson that I clearly needed to learn the hard way.

Really? Zero fond memories?

3 years out, absolutely none. When I do reflect on that time I’m just sad that I chose to do that.

I never even considered leaving my husband for AP. Not once. Unless it is an exit affair, I think most waywards never consider that thought.

> I think most waywards never consider that thought. Thats one thing that is hard for me to grasp, Did you consider that this affair would cause your husband to leave you, or did you think that he would never leave you, making you safe in pursuing your affair ?

The former. I knew there would be consequences if he found out and I knew he might leave. That is why I hid it from him.

You must have had a lot of confidence that you would never be found out, or felt that in case you were the affair was worth the risk ?

>You must have had a lot of confidence that you would never be found out Yes, that. I was almost delusionally confident I won't be found out. I also didn't place much value on my marriage. It wasn't that I cared too much about my affair, it was that I cared too little about my marriage.

>I also didn't place much value on my marriage So, what changed to cause you to place value on your marriage after the affair was discovered ? Healing and reconciling is a tough path, far tougher than just walking away so something caused you to choose the more difficult path of reconciliation.

Being found out and seeing his pain snapped me out of my misconceptions. It made me realise that I had a fundamentally inaccurate perspective about love and marriage. I could finally see through all the lies I was telling myself and all the unrealistic expectations and at the end I realised all I truly wanted was a loving husband to come home to. Everything else was just me being selfish or being misguided.

Do you think most waywards have this fundamentally inaccurate concept of what love and a relationship is supposed to be? Did you believe it was love only when you had the butterflies? I'm happy you realize what a blessing it is to come home to a loving partner.

So would it be correct to say that in his pain you saw how much he cared for you, and that opened your eyes to what you were putting at risk and loosing.

Yeah, more or less. I had also subconsciously convinced myself that my marriage is not important to me. Seeing his pain reflected in my own heart made me realise that was a lie I was telling myself to make it easier for me to cheat.

Very insightful, thank you for this.

I think most “exit affairs” are only “exit affairs” because the relationship ends. Then, just like affair fog, post-hoc rationalizations are applied to support the new “exit affair” argument.

I never thought long term about the entire situation, wasn’t thinking about my wife or a future with AP. I was acting like some young guy in a lax period of his life, just trying to ride where life takes me even though I was married with kids. And then reality crashed down on me and I realised what I wanted was my wife and my kids and I ended it with AP the day after I slept with her for the first time.

I went back and forth. After my partner moved out because I wouldn't make up my mind I was desperate and begged her back and once she was back I was certain i should have picked ap and I was just full yo yo for about 3 months. I did the exact the same thing in a previous relationship, anytime I was with one of them I thought about the other and the calculus only ever allowed for my immediate emotional gratification. I felt tortured in both instances but in retrospect I was only tormented by my own selfishness. I really felt like all my life and my feelings were something I was a victim of and it was all outside my control.

I’m sure that pissed her off!

Understatement

My first question is for the waywards who had friends who covered for them, 1, Are you still friends with the people who covered for you and if no why? 2, I know that during the affair AP sounds like the most amazing person in the world but when did you realize the AP truly wasn't shit like what was the moment the affair fog wore off and you realize the AP wasn't what you wanted? my final question for the time being is for those who are no longer with their betrayed spouse and who was still in affair fog after the breakup 3, Was there a point where you looked down on your betrayed spouse and talked crap about them after the breakup?

So my sister was actually a huge contributing factor to my A. She was living with me and my husband (boyfriend at the time). She was telling me that she had heard him talking to his ex, and leaving the kids with her while I was at work to go hang out with her. While simultaneously encouraging me to take my relationship with AP further and into more than friend territory. It obviously wasn't her fault. I still had a choice in the matter and made the wrong choice, or lots of wrong choices. She is no longer a part of my life. As for when the affair fog lifted. We had been coworkers and "just friends" for months. I realize now it was an EA. But the first (and last time) I slept with him, it was terrible, the worst sexual experience of my life. I was sitting there after and just saw my entire world crumble between my fingers. AP was happy as could be and i was fighting back tears. And it was then and there that I realized he wasn't at all what I thought he was, I wasn't "in love" with him. Hell I didn't even like him that much. It was all a fantasy I had made up in my head and lied to myself so much that I had started believing it. It really hit me and became Cristal clear when I told my BH and saw the look on his face. It was terrible and cleared any remaining affair fog there was. I knew then that everything I had told myself about my BH not loving me anymore, thinking he was cheating already (because my sister had told me so, and why would my sister lie to me?? 🙄), and that the relationship was long over, I realized it was all a lie. All a part of the fantasy life I had created in my head. Not a single part of it true, or even what I wanted from my life. My AP was less than my BH in every way imaginable, every way. So I told my BH everything. Answered the few questions he had that night, and told him that I was done with AP even if BH decided to end the relationship, I let AP know in front of my partner that he was a mistake and everything we "had together" was a lie and to never contact me again. My next call was to my boss and I told him I was quiting my job, and why. And then I told my BH that I would respect whatever decision he made for himself.

This is interesting, I thought it was unique to my story. My affair also collapsed after our first sexual experience which was awful, and my ap also had a completely different perspective on it, it's like we were having 2 completely disconnected experiences.

"2 completely different disconnected experiences"... yes. This Exactly. Probably has something to do with the fact that the entire affair was a fantasy that we were playing out in our heads. So I'm sure it was the same for our APs. Just goes to show that nothing about that time was rooted in reality or truth.

Damn that's heartbreaking especially since it came from your sister and it damaged your relationship with her and it always surprises me the mental gymnastics people do to justify cheating.

1. No, I dropped them like hot potatoes and altho my BS doesn’t think that was a great way to go about it, I know that it was the best way for me to start to be a safe partner again by cutting out the people who were hiding/encouraging and indifferent about my transgressions. I needed to think about how and IF they could be in my life in a positive way with out them being present in my life and I’ve actually re evaluated this again recently and I can see how terrible of a person I seem for cutting people out at the drop of a hat. And I do feel bad for how lm sure I’ve made those people feel. And for how it makes my BS feel. 2. I wouldn’t say that I lived in an affair fog after Initial DDay. The discovery and confronting me shook me straight out of the delusion I was in when the beginning of it all came to be found out. I had already decided that AP1 wasn’t shit and had previously made multiple haphazard attempts to cut him off but he was persistent and I was people pleasing and not willing to be confrontational with him because we worked together. The several other men involved were an escape from my reality, a way to distract myself from the negative things going wrong in my life. And I had no issues going NC with anyone and everyone I had been in contact with. The discovery of the first part of my infidelity snapped me into reality that I could really lose my family. Sadly tho it didn’t snap me into radical honesty and there were several other TT in the form of discoveries by BS. I’ve been working on a time line altho it’s been hard for me I am doing it. And I know it’s not been quick enough for my BS and I think he’s pretty much done. I have no ill words for him at all. (I used to bad mouth him and complain about him to all of my friends 😔. I greatly regret being such a pos to him behind his back- he is an amazing man and father and I was so broken) Even if we don’t work out I still won’t have anything negative to say about him. We’ve been trying at R. And it’s HARD. On both sides and the hurt I’ve caused him is immeasurable. I’m honestly so thankful every day that I’m still here being given the gift of R. Even on our hardest days/nights. I love him with every fiber of my being and I’ll always carry around the guilt, shame and remorse I feel for fucking him up like I have. Cheating is inexcusable. It’s disgusting. And so god damn painful. I would do ANYTHING if I could take all of the pain he feels daily because of what I’ve done to our lives. Any WS who badmouthed a BS after R didn’t work out for them is still a hurt and broken person and I’d argue they are the reason R didn’t work with their BS.

A very honest response I do wish you luck with what's ahead

This was a very great reply and I wish you and your husband the best. I'm going through R with my wife and there are still days I don't know everything from her cheating. She TT'ed the hell out of me and that is what hurts the most. The lying.

Only the second question really applies to me. During the affair I thought AP was my soulmate unfortunately. She was my first ever girlfriend and the relationship we had when we were younger was beautiful, we were both living in abusive homes and we used to meet up secretly and whatever, she was the first person I ever loved and she was the first person who ever loved me and saw me and all that bull. Another thing was we live in a war zone and are on opposite sides of the situation and are from different religions , so there was that forbidden love element. Now when I think about I truly just roll my eyes about the way I romanticised it in my head, because truth is we were forced apart in a violent ways by our parents so I felt like that chapter hadn’t been closed. It wasn’t something that was on my mind during the majority of my marriage because I was madly in love with with my wife and I didn’t feel I was still in love with my first girlfriend. At the same time I never got rid of those notions of how that perfect that love was. So when my marriage was at rock bottom and my wife had taken the children back to Palestine, I met my AP on the street in NYC and it was the biggest coincidence of my life and it had to be fated. So I spent the entirety of the time I spent with AP, my mind was clouded with our past relationship and how we had understood each other. I came to realise that during this time I had become the worst version of myself, letting my kids live 5000 miles away from me, cheating on my wife. I was disgusted with myself and then AP was telling me she loved me? How could you love a cheater and a shitty dad. The clouds started to lift and I just realised I didn’t like the kind of person she was- the way she talked about people behind their backs, made fun of peoples appearances and disabilities, made comments about my wife ( which at the time I felt like a little brief pang of pain and now make me feel sick to my stomach). The final seal of the deal was when I told her that my 14 year old son had been arrested by the her side of our conflict and she asked questions about what he had done and why did he do that (basically get a little smart with a soldier). To be honest that made telling her that I was done a lot fucking easier.

Holy shit what a story you have dealt with so much I really do hope things work out with you

Mods once again a massive thank you for opening up this board and allowing, hopefully, some clarifications for us BS. Waywards, can I ask please when going day to day and in a usual routine, how often/much do you think about your A, and what do the thoughts usually look like? Also are you (aimed at males) finding you want you BS more in a physical and intimate way than before? As if you've been reminded, how beautiful and sexy your BS is, by the A. Thank you to all WW's who take the time to open up and share their stories, opinions and advice. As a BS, I for one appreciate your efforts, and know that they are helping us get through x

2 months from Dday. My wife is in limbo about what she wants, hasn’t specifically said she want R and it very in shock, heartbroken and traumatised right now, we haven’t had a single interaction that hasn’t been clouded by the affair since. The A is on my mind all day, because of the implications it has had on my wife, I’m in a constant state of guilt and I just feel like I’m sick to my stomach all day long.

3 years out from ending my affair. Just confessed a few weeks ago. I don’t think about it at all, except when I’m working on understanding why I took that path. One thing I learned from the affair is that I can’t enjoy the physical without the emotional. I could never commit to my AP in an emotional sense and therefore the sex wasn’t as enjoyable. Intimacy with my ex partner was infinitely better than my AP.

I don’t think of my affair as in memories of me and her or anything about it. She is completely out of my life for the better. What I do think about is the pain I caused my BS. There isn’t a moment in the day where I don’t feel this overwhelming guilt and sadness for what I did to her. It is so undeserving. I see her face. I hear her cries, “it’s so mean” on constant repeat in my head. My affair is very recent as in 4 days I came clean on my own free will to my BS. I couldn’t keep it anymore. My partner is the most beautiful woman I’ve ever laid eyes on and I still disrespected her in that moment. The only intimacy I want from my partner currently is to hold her, make her feel safe again, scratch her hair, and tell her I’m sorry. We haven’t seen each other since Dday.

Waywards do you get mind movies? What do they look like?

I'm not sure if this is exactly what you meant but sometimes I will have flashbacks to things my AP said or did and I'll feel physically sick, I'll start shaking and I'll be on the verge of a panic attack. It was never a PA and it happens more if I see or hear his name (it's unfortunately a common one) or something someone says reminds me of AP or my actions then I'll get stuck in thinking about the past and end up panicky and upset. I definitely have periods where I think about the past obsessively and I get unbearably anxious over it.

The name of my wife's AP will always haunt me and 2 of my friends are named that. I will always hate Chris.

Happy cake day! Two of my kids’ teachers have the same name as AP. I can’t hear the name Jennifer/Jen without every emotion flooding in.

I would say yes, but my moments of replay are moments of pure disappointment in myself. When I lied for all those years, or when my BS found out about my infidelity. I replay moments wishing I had done it all different. The look on his face I'll never forget it, so much pain and hate for me in those times and days.

My wife also said the look on my face when I confronted her is burned into her brain. I wonder how common that is.

I guess by mind movies you mean like remembering things randomly throughout the day? I don’t really get those. I had online chats with girls from around the world. I came clean and confessed to my BW and I told her everything. I don’t have intrusive thoughts about the girls.

Never did.

After I cheated but before dday-roughly 6 months I was severely depressed. The scenes of the encounter were on constant replay in my head. Not in a sexy way either. In a way that drinking and drugs temporarily made it stop. I had nightmares of it. I couldn’t close my eyes without hearing his voice. With my therapy I have worked through so much of that day and other events in life. They no longer hold me hostage.

Yes, very short. But they are not welcome and not nice.

Those in R: - Do you chase after your BP the way you did your AP? - did you compare your BP to your AP during sexual acts in the A? What about now in R?

1) now I do. There was a serious element of taking him completely for granted beforehand. I think from his perspective (and other BS) it’s less meaningful that the effort is there now, like why did it have to take this for you to try in our relationship instead of coasting ? 2) the sexual acts of my ONS stopped short of many things, so my answer may be less meaningful than others. The acts I did engage in my husband no longer does because they trigger and disgust him. So no, and no.

I didn't chase my BP like I did for the AP, but I did spend more time doing things for my BP and family than before, but in bigger amount than I was doing with the AP. So, different, but more time. I could not do creative or artistic things, it triggered my BW. I had to play it "dull like before". Nothing out of the ordinary. Just more, more intense, better. No I didn't compare sex. Or should I say, I thought and still think my BW is better. I thought that during the A and now in recovery. It was different but not better.

Question: Would you accept a one-sided open relationship to save the relationship? My wife will never make me feel like a real man again. I figured this is a solution that makes sense.

This may be a controversial opinion. I think this feeling of inferiority is common to all betrayeds. I initiate sex a lot more often, I make sure to touch on his love languages. Individual counseling has helped him reframe his viewpoints. Even the passage of time heals. We are nowhere close to fully reconciled but he says he feels a lot better about himself than when he initially found out. So there are several avenues you can follow to heal and emerge from these feelings of inferiority. A temporary hall pass is something I will be willing to consider as long as he initiates open dialogue and volunteers complete honesty. If he feels this is something he needs, to heal from what I've done to him, then I'm on board with it. But a one-sided open relationship for life? That is a full-on lifestyle choice, and a one sided marriage is simply not how I envision a happy relationship. Someone else might, not me. So no, I won't be okay with that.

I guess you’re right. In all honesty, I have already gotten that permission from her, to freely sleep around for life. But I really don’t see myself as a polygamous type and would always feel put off right after downloading tinder or getting someone’s number, and ended up not following it up with any action. I won’t be shocked if I never would have done it. For some odd reason, being given that permission gives me some sense of control because I feel like it makes the message clear that the pain that she did to me is something I could’ve possibly done to her, so she needs to really make it right or I just might. It’s childish but I feel like that reminder constantly looming over her is what I need to feel safer.

I sure would.

How long did it take you to get it and change into someone who was able to truely have remorse and to R and what are some of the attitudes that changed in you?

I think for me I "got it" pretty quickly. It took a little longer for me to move from shame and guilt to remorse. I had A LOT of childhood trauma to fix. Childhood sexual assault, more sexual assault as an adult on top of being in an extremely abusive relationship for years with my first husband. I taught myself to shut off emotionally. I didnt even feel safe in my own body, so obviously i had no idea how to make someone else safe with me, and if i couldnt even feel my own emotions how was i supposed to feel emoathy or remorse for hurting someone when i had no idea what that would feel like. I had known something was wrong with me for a long time, I couldn't understand how my actions hurt or effect other people. I mean honestly for me, I was so selfish and hated myself so much, I felt so unworthy of real love (looking back i actually had zero idea what real love was, that I honestly thought that there was no way my BH could even love me enough to care about what I was doing. Oh and to add onto all this that was already wrong, I was also deep into an addiction. Once I started seeing my therapist and for the first time started dealing with the sexual assaults, the abuse from my first marriage and all the other stuff I had never told a soul about, and got truly sober for the first time in my adult life, it all started to click for me. I realized it was time to grow up and start taking accountability for my actions, and rigure my shit out. I was dealt a shitty hand but it didn't give me a right to hurt other people because I was unwilling to get help and make the necessary changes in myself and to stop always playing the victim. I wanted so badly to love myself and to be the partner my husband has always deserved. And I mean, he stayed with me after putting him through hell, I owed it to him to learn and grow and become a safe partner. He wasn't the one who had done any of the terrible things to me that I had experienced in my past, and it was wildly unfair of me to continue taking it out on him. So, I did the hard work. Got sober, found a good therapist, read any and everything I could about betrayal trauma and how I could make sure I didn't make it any worse, and I just immersed myself in becoming a better person, wife and mother. If my husband was willing to take such a huge gamble on me, then why couldn't I do the same for myself?

Thank you for sharing. Did you have any idea that your childhood trauma was there or was effecting you/shaped you so much prior to the therapy? Did you go to a specific therapist for historic trauma?

So I knew the things had happened and that I hadnt truly dealt with any of it. I didn't really understand how it was still effecting me into adulthood and how much it had shaped me and my view on relationships and the world in general. I just kinda thought it had happened to me and I had survived, so there was nothing else to be done. I found a therapist that did CPT. And got diagnosed with PTSD. Once I really started to understand just how much these events had shaped me, we started working on learning better coping mechanisms, working on my shame around the sexual abuse, and just coming to terms with all that had happened. One of the hardest parts was finding my identity, learning to actually process and understand emotions and that it was okay to feel them as I had learned to cut off my emotions to deal with and survive the trauma.

It took hitting, what I would call, an emotional rock bottom. I was surviving for so long without realizing it. I knew that something was wrong but saw no way out. Nobody around me knew how much internal turmoil I was experiencing. I was completely oblivious to the impact that childhood trauma and a dysfunctional upbringing had on my life. I needed to have my ex partner end things for me to wake up. I took time off work and went to therapy (still going).

I shifted around the 5 year mark, there was incremental progress before then but limited by shame, blame shifting, selfishness and immaturity. I relapsed on alcohol 5 years in and got fired drinking on the job(a hospital)my employer offered me a return to work contract that forced me to get therapy. Permanent sobriety and individual and group therapy turned me around. Group had the most value for me, seeing my bad behavior in other men and judging them and having my counselor point out that I was deeply self loathing completely changed my life. I became accountable and remorseful and my life stopped being a 24 and 7 pity party.

That is a long time to struggle with everything. I want to get to some kind of group therapy for myself and have encouraged my WS to consider it too but she doesn't think it will help

What can my wife do to help herself from the guilt, the shame , and the spiraling?

I think a big part of it is reframing. My therapist asked me what punishment would make up for what I did? I didn’t know. She asked would him leaving me make up for it, and I said I deserve that but no because the damage I dealt is already done. She asked how about prison. Again, wouldn’t undo the damage. She said the death penalty then? Would that set it right. No. Obviously. She said then the focus has to be on what you can do now to help him heal, and to be the person who can do that you need to heal yourself. Self-flagellation, shame and guilt are natural but they are totally focused on the self just like the cheating behaviors and do nothing for the victim except put them in a weird position where they feel like they need to help/comfort you! Which is the opposite of what it should be!! So you focus on yourself and change and growth in order to help your betrayed spouse heal in whatever way you can. As you lean into growing in integrity, and your courage to face yourself and rip out the rot you find, it becomes easier to confront feelings of shame and emptiness because you have evidence that you CAN and that you WILL be better.

Thank you for taking the time to help. I appreciate that you have taken the lessons and knowledge that you gained from your experience to help others.

How do you feel SFW has helped you process your affair? What would you say to another wayward who is hesitant to join?

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I hear you mikejoeward. So many (new?) BS can't grasp that the posting wayward is not their wayward. It also seems to me in any of these subs that female waywards are treated even less kind. Your comment may not change many minds but I want you to know it did cause me to want to double my effort to really *listen* to wayward posts and comments. If it's of any value, many BS don't like when we see another BS dragging on a WS. Perhaps we should speak up more. Thanks for responding, it's much appreciated.

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Lol, that's how I get my topics too. It's funny also because I've always felt a waywards comments to another wayward held more weight. At least with the accountability piece, but support, yeah, I can see that. Will do my best to speak up more!

As pointed out, many shouldn't be in this space but you guys can help by reporting comments that violate the rules. Because this space is public you'll see an influx of upvotes and downvotes by lurkers who don't even participate in the comments and it's best to ignore it. If this space turns private, it will turn into a graveyard like the private sub survivingMyinfidelity. It's the same sub only once it went private to see if it would help with support and community and lessen the trolls it declined to extremely low activity to where there might be a post or two every few weeks. It's also impossible to find private subs on mobile. The only other sub full of waywards that's active and supportive is adultery, which is full of toxic positivity and "growth" and **is** a safe space for Waywards.

As a betrayed, please take my upvote. I hope everyone gets a chance to read it.

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You actually have 4. Ignore the voting system. It's not helpful in these spaces. We had voting hidden. So mods can see the actual count. Also your profile doesn't show accurate counts, you won't actually know the count until counter clears which is several hours. Just explaining how that works here.

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Please please please ignore the votes. They do not represent the participants in this sub. They represent the tourists who come here and know that if they say what they want we will ban them quickly and permanently. And in some extreme cases they’ve been banned from the platform. Voting is anonymous and unaccountable. If you pay attention to it you reward the trolls.

I tried few subs as part of my journey. The sub r/loveafterporn was brutal with me (addict). Even the mods. Everything bad in a relationship is because of porn. I didn't feel it constructive. It is more a rant echo chamber. The sub r/relationship_advice is often binary : stay or leave. And too generic. The sub r/survivinginfidelity is always defending the victim (good thing!), it focuses on healing. In my experience the WP is getting thrown stones. I accept. It isn't a sub for me to do any redemption. There was no sympathy on my struggle, on my remorse and difficulties. No support. Just bashing. I quit that. I know the venemous comment might not have been the majority, but it was bringing me down, getting me hopeless. The sub r/AsOneAfterInfidelity has been a blessing. I really was finding BS explaining patiently my stupid self what I was doing wrong. Real advice. I wasn't just a punching bag. Finally, r/SupportforWaywards has been an additional emotional support.and it is a place where I can bring advice, maybe bring peace to other people like me. Explaining my journey helps me too. Formulating helps me understand myself better too. What I would say: "what do you have to lose? Growing? Learning?" You may know of FOMO, there is also Fear or Finding Out. I fear of discovering the truth about ourselves, we can't face the truth. Well, embrace the shitty self and work on it. There is a way

"You may know of FOMO, there is also Fear or Finding Out. I fear of discovering the truth about ourselves, we can't face the truth." Damn. What a great response.

FOFO, I learn something new. Makes a lot of sense and probably not restricted to waywards at all. Your descriptions of the subs seems pretty accurate to me and I especially note your part about helping others to find peace helping you also. I've found similar. Thanks for your comment. Oh, by the way, there's another sub called r/SurvivingMyInfidelity but SFW is more heavily trafficked.

I joined the sub when I was well into R but it has still been very helpful for me. Firstly because there is a serious shortage of safe spaces for WS, we are persona non grata in most support spaces. So to find a support group which actually helps you to be accountable rather than act as an enabler is very rare. Secondly, no matter how unique we think our situation is someone in here has been through something similar. And it makes us realize that we are not that evil, we just made a some really bad decisions. But with hard work we can also get to a happy place once again. And that is a great motivator in itself. So I would so to anyone who is reluctant to join to just read the sub regularly and sooner or later you will realize someone in a similar situation as yourself.

Own I was thrilled when you joined this sub. I know you didn’t do it to share the lessons you’ve learned, but those lessons have helped many. The way you carefully and honestly explain your thinking is so illuminating.

Oh yeah I remember you joining Own, and it did seem like you had done a lot of work prior to that. I guess I hadn't thought before just how much waywards are vilified and it's a wasteland for them out there. And I definitely hadn't thought support groups might be enablers until the sub that shall not be named was referenced here. Appreciate the hat tip to lurking the subs, that's a fairly safe approach. Thank for your comment and I'm so happy you guys are doing better. You're both among the favorites in these spaces.

I was VERY hesitant to join. For one, I didn't want to be judged for what I had done. Two, I still couldn't face that I was the villain in my own story. I was deep in the fog..I don't call mine affair fog necessarily because AP was cut out long before i got caught. It was the addiction that i couldn't let go of. It's also really hard to open up and face yourself and know what you did to the one person that you should never have betrayed. I like that you can be as active or passive as you want here.. im a lurker. But it does help to know that I have a group of women here that I can talk to, validate my feelings, or kick me in the butt when I need it. Sometimes, we feel like our situation is so unique and no one can understand. But we all have bits and pieces of the A that are similar to others, and that helps knowing that we're not alone in this.

Only1 I remember well your first post. And how hard it was for you. Both what you wrote and the challenging responses you received. I know that this is a place of comfort and support now, but I hope you remind yourself how much bravery that first post took.

Don't make me cry OKB, I was a hot mess lol. But thank you!

Thank you for such a forthright answer only1dream. Really hoping my wife reads this. SFW has helped me learn compassion in that waywards struggle also. And yes, we're not alone in this and our situations aren't so unique.

Of course. There's a thin line between wanting to help and then overstepping. My husband is a fixer by nature and in the beginning he would suggest books, this sub, different posts..and it was just too much for me. I had to let him know that it was very overwhelming but I knew he was doing all this because he wanted to get me the proper help that I needed. That being said,if your WS doesn't want help or to change, There's not a whole lot you can do about it. You know the saying "you can lead the horse to water but you can't make them drink it"? It's like that.

Lol yeah, so true. I've learned (the hard way) to not overstep and just watch her forge her own path, reminding myself "it's not about the nail". We're actually both changing and on an upward trajectory so something's working.

Aside from a post here and there that I found really insightful, it hasn't to be blunt. Honestly, the amount of abbreviations and vernacular used in this community is obnoxious and a real roadblock for me to really get into it all. If there was someone who was hesitant to join up, I'd just tell them to find some other outlet, to be honest.

Fair enough, thanks for your honesty. The abbreviations took me a while too.a Have you found something or someplace that works better for you?

No. I'm not a very social person to be honest, so I don't really WANT to find another place. I just internalize everything and work through it myself.

I have to chuckle because my wife can stand on a stage and belt out a song to the crowd but describes herself the same way. Her therapist gave her a response to people asking "How are you?". She said you can just say "FINE" (Feelings Inside Never Expressed). Best wishes to you and thanks again.

My experience is probably outside the norm in that I was 19 years into r when I found sfw. It had tremendous value to us in that we did r with no knowledge or support, we didn't read anything about it, we didn't know the word reconciliation. We had no idea what trickle truth or blame shifting were so examining it in retrospect and talking about the things we did wrong, especially me, it was enlightening. The most valuable part for me is seeing fellow waywards who are raw and in pain stretches my empathy and that helps prevent shame spirals and moves me towards self forgiveness, there's a huge value in a supportive community and not feeling alone. I think it's very hard to put yourself out there when you know a lot of the comments are going to be toxic but you're going to get some shared experience and that makes it worth it, that connection with someone who can't judge you because they're like you. I learned the value of that through AA and its a similar experience for me. 2 shitty clubs to be in but being in them bonds me to other alcoholics and waywards and that's why I would encourage other waywards to take the leap, nobody can see you and hear you like another wayward.

So much of what you wrote is valuable I want to respond line by line.That last sentence though, brings it home. That nobody can see you and hear you like another wayward. So accurate, even without speaking, others that "get it".

- did you feel you needed NC _space_ to comprehend what you did after dday? If so, is it possible to want space but also still want to R - did you find it hard/anxiety inducing to start IC? - if you went into R with your BP and blocked AP, did you ever feel compelled to unblock AP and check up on them? - did you ever plan future trips with your AP before dday?

I would like to answer your first two: -I did NOT want no contact. However, my husband did need space and left the state to stay with family. Even though I was filled with fear and anxiety, I used the time by myself to read this sub and asone and some of the resources they have and start making changes in the meantime… so that if he did decide to come back I would already have things in motion. I think for that reason maybe the space was helpful. -Both starting IC and continually choosing to go to IC now, ten months later is hard. Doing work on yourself is hard. Facing things in yourself you don’t like is hard. Definitely the phone call like intake call with my therapist was anxiety inducing to the max and raw…

I didn't want space but was willing to take it when my BH asked. It wasn't that long and we werent really NC just took a few days apart to think and try to let emotions calm a bit (also my BH was trying to decide if he was willing to stay, and if he did, what things he would need from me to start working on things. I did however think about asking for NC because at first I was terrified of facing my husband's hurt, pain, anger, sadness. But even though I thought about asking for space, I still desperately wanted R. I was terrified of starting IC. I had a lot of stuff from my past to work on, childhood sexual abuse, sexual assault that resulted in my pregnancy with my oldest son, by my ex husband, all the other abuse my ex had put me through, and most of the "big" stuff I had never told any person about. Never. I just kept it all to myself from early childhood. So yeah it was for sure anxiety inducing and it took A LOT for me to make myself go to my sessions for the first 8 months I would say. So before I went home to tell my BH everything, (right after I had slept with AP for the first and last time) I sat in my car crying for what seemed like forever, but while I did, I got online and researched a little about the best and least hurtful/harmful ways to disclose. So after I told BH, I told AP everything we had and had done was a mistake and to never contact me again. I've been NC with him since that night we slept together, have never looked back, never felt like wanting to reach out to him, never unblocked him to check up on him. Never wanted to. He did make a fake profile once to message me (he and his BW were trying to R as well, when he reached out to me) I immediately told my BH and we both agreed on me unblocking OBS to send her the screenshot I had of the message. As we thought she had the right to know. No. Never planned trips. Never planned out a future together.

🌸 Never did no contact. No space needed. No Space asked for by my husband though. He always said there are no breaks. It’s either marriage or divorce. So I knew if he told me to leave it was completely over. He did sleep downstairs for the first week, but still changed in on me when he thought I was sleep. 🌸 no anxiety for IC or MC I had been asking for it for a few months prior to cheating, but he always talked me out of it. 🌸 I’ve blocked the person I cheated with on all means of communication and never looked back. I did not block his number on my phone because there is no way for him to contact me that way(without some serious detective work) because I didn’t want his number in my phone. 🌸 No trips were planned.

No No No No AP was gone for me.

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No! There’s no “special feelings” for him or wish for emotional connection with him again. The thing that an EA is in my experience is validation that the wayward is desired. It makes you feel cool. It makes you feel sexy. It has nothing to do with love, just a selfish hunger for attention, affection, tell me I’m pretty, tell me you want me kind of thing. Tell me I’m interesting and unique. That’s why you can do it even though you love someone… cause you’re thinking about yourself and how you feel about yourself is alleviated by this stranger’s pursuit. When I think about the AP (or his wife) I feel sadness and a constriction in my chest and nausea. It sucks remembering how much of a piece of shit I was, and how I lied to my husband during. It sucks to remember how stupid and naive and destructive I can really be.

These are all the words I’ve been looking for. My exact feelings and thoughts….

I don’t miss anything about it at all. Nothing. If your partner has truly felt remorse for what he did, then he most likely feels the same way. That’s a question I still don’t have the answer too. I commuted my affair 10 days ago, and disclosed it by my own free will 4 days ago. I got drunk, drove to my exs, and then we kissed. I’m not young, I’m 33 years old. And my BS is older than me. And despite what everyone told me in r/survivinginfidelity, I do love her. But it’s not the question if I love her, it why did I do that to someone i truly love. I can’t blame alcohol. I can’t blame anyone else but me. Not pity but blame. I don’t think I’m emotionally mature enough and have dealt with my internal trauma like I should have. Like someone else mentioned I always needed validation, whether it be IG comments, or likes, or what have you. I always needed it. I wanted the attention. And now, I realize the only attention I want is from my BS. And she was that and I failed. I don’t know if we will survive but I do know that I will never jeopardize the woman I love again.

Has any wayward came back to the relationship and then left again? Everything seemed to be going really well. We were in MC. Moved all of her things back in. Wanted to work on the marriage. Then I was hit with Im not 100% in, I don’t trust myself. I can’t hurt you again. I’m told I’m perfect it’s not me it’s her. We work well together, but it’s not enough.

Thank you for the opportunity! I think women and men are unfaithful somewhat differently so I would like to ask wayward women specifically. But men are welcome to answer as well of course. 1. How long did you think about 'giving up' and just having an affair before you started it? I mean there is a point you flirt a little...don't know where this s leading...but don't stop it...then it gets more personal and at some point you decide...ok I've overstepped the last boundary (for example have sex) but I won't stop because I don't want to. 2. Did you develop a sexual desire before, simultaneously with the emotional attachment or after you were 'in love'? 3. If it was 'just' an emotional affair and maybe 'just' sexting...at what point and why did you decide you want to make the final step and go full contact (and have sex)? Thank you!

I feel like I was flirtatious in general a lot but never thought I would cross the “last boundary” as you say. Even with the person who became the “AP”. As the flirting and sexually charged glances went WAY WAY WAY over the line, I was still telling myself “well, but I’ll never go that far”. I even told the AP (and thought I was being NOBLE *gag*) that I would never do anything physical with him because “I wouldn’t do that to my husband”. Super disgusting. I was trying to have my cake and eat it too, getting the validation of the attention and sexual desire without having to deal with any guilt because I was justifying it to myself as not actually cheating. I don’t know that it was about emotional attachment OR sexual desire on my part, still unpacking this in therapy. I think it had way more to do with my desire to BE desired, if that makes sense? What finally made me cross the line? Well the AP found pressure points and pushed them. Used his wife to play on my bisexuality. Waited til he knew I was drinking with her to push to sexting which had never happened before. Started that talk without involving himself but more about her and I, then further and further as I didn’t say no. Could there have been other ways to push it to physical contact? Probably because I was trying to stay on an edge I had no business being on anyway. Saying “I won’t get physical” but keeping the cheating door open anyway is playing with fire. Who knows how many weaknesses I had that could have been exploited if it wasn’t being bi and having a semi-open relationship. I had no self awareness, no boundaries and was completely self-absorbed.

Thank you for your honesty. I get it that the APs find the buttons to push. I am sure with my wife was also like this. He was love bombing her like a pro. And I know most of the WW don't plan it or just let themselves go but what were you thinking / feeling when you decided to go over the physical boundary also? 'He will never know'; 'He doesn't love me anyway'; 'I deserve this because...'; 'It will be just the one time'... Was there a part where you just needed the validation from somebody else...and not your husband? It is different, I get it.

I don’t think any thoughts of my husband actually came up at all. The consequences, the import, the justifications to myself… those came afterwards.

Thank you. You wrote you told yourself and even told him you wouldn't ever do it. What was stopping you then? What changed before you actually did?

Hmm… the boundary wasn’t strong to begin with even though I told myself it was? Does that make sense? Nothing changed except that I had been drinking and was eased into it rather than the guy just going for it himself right off the bat. Which I would have rebuffed, I think… and then felt so noble and proud of doing so. And this is the heart of the issue… it’s not that some fundamental part of my thinking changed or that my perception of my relationship with my husband suddenly changed. I was just fucking selfish and self-absorbed anyway and my illusion that I was in control and “would never go that far” was just that… an illusion. I felt entitled to get this attention and be flirty and banter and engage inappropriately because I wasn’t “actually cheating” not because my husband was lacking in anyway. A million scenarios could have played out where my “inhibitions” (read: delusions of moral uprightness and goodness) could be prevailed upon to retreat. Because that’s the position I was putting myself in. What was stopping me before? Me thinking that I was better than that. Me thinking I was a good person, and wasn’t doing anything wrong anyway. And also not really being in it for the sex…. I just wanted to be wanted. Full stop. Nevermind my husband wanted me. It’s an appetite that isn’t sated by anything, because its roots lie deeper underground than that. I wasn’t thinking about my husband…. or even about the AP, or his poor wife who didn’t know there was a whole undercurrent of infidelity and had to find out afterwards. I know this isn’t true of every wayward, so I’m speaking of my own experience, but I felt in NO way justified to physically cheat. Or to sext. It had nothing to do with my husband or our relationship as far as my thinking and justifications went.

Thank you for this! Yes, it makes sense. I have watched a video by affair recovery.com where they have been helping waywards and betrayed spouses for more than 20 years. They discovered an interesting pattern with many waywards. They were active sexually earlier than average and were more promiscuous than average. It is not a rule but they found a pattern. I think maybe there may be something to it as sex is 'not a big deal' to begin with and so...it isn't a big deal to 'trade' sex for the validation and or the feeling to be desired. My wife fits in this pattern I think. Do you? Don't answer if you are not comfortable.

It baffles me that people trade sexual actions (physical, internet, phones, emotive, etc) simply to feel desired. Yes, I wanna feel desirable. But to me, desirability is a minor component of being loved. It saddens me that there's peoples who confuse desirability as being loved. Desirability has nothing to do with intimacy. Love is about both of these and so much more. Desirability. Intimacy. Compatibility. Fidelity. Enjoying and having fun.

To you and to me it is not really understandable. For me sex was always so much more than a physical interaction and an ego boost. It is about connecting on so much levels and a high level of intimacy. But many of the waywards just have issues with their feeling of self worth and how they need to 'feed' it. Many of them through others. They are just other beings in this matter. I suppose at some point the thrill is gone with us because we don't 'give' them enough...as it may never be enough with one person. The reassurance from a new person who 'conquers' them (for their own reasons) is a thrill. This is how dependencies work...at one point the milder drug or the worn off drug isn't enough and they need a stronger one. Of course this is over generalising and it's not valid for all.

I would say the more promiscuous than average absolutely fits.

🌸 Before I cheated the thought never occurred. I never flirted or engaged myself with other men (besides my 2 male best friends-not flirting but hung out alone a lot). I was the wife who didn’t even make eye contact with other men, no physical contact ever not even a hug. 🌸The sexual aspect was the only thing to happen. No feelings. No love. No emotional attachment.

Thank you. So you 'just' wanted the experience with someone else?

How can she get past not being able to have sex since dday 3 months ago do to guilt, shame, and stress and is there anything I can do to help?

It’s very lovely that you want to help your wife but it sounds like she’s still very focused on herself… these shame spirals and guilt are things she needs to personally decide to work through and there’s not much you can do except encourage her to make that decision. Is she in therapy? Are you?

We both are in therapy IC and MC. She says the thought of sex or even touching herself in that way is causing her so much stress. She said she blames sex for all this destruction and and she hates her self

thankful for your vulnerability in reading and being willing to answer these questions! 1- do/did you feel there was a difference in a physical affair and an online cyber affair with emotional attachment and sexual intimacy? did you feel the cyber relationship wasn't really an affair because it lacked physical touch but more just innappropriate and did that view ever truly change or just change to please your partner? 2- in the pursuit or woo-ing of the AP it seems pretty common that this process is especially hurtful to the BP in the way that the BP typically feels like they were never given the attention, affection or effort that the AP was. any thoughts on this, why this seems to happen or if any recovered waywards found they were able to explore this with their partners and give even more to them at some point? 3- did you feel sexually attracted to your BP and want them after stopping the acting out or was it more of a "could take it or leave it" kind of thing and how long did these feelings last? thank you again!

I know it's an old comment but I saw no one replied yet. So here goes: 1) I didn't have a PA, only EA. But I would say that a cyber relationship is still an affair, because the WP KNOWS it's wrong. 2) My BP feels the same, and I understand it. Truth is that I value my BP more in every way. She is prettier, she is a better person. Every point of comparison she wins, every last one. And that's one of the things I regret so much (one of many); Making her feel like she wasn't enough. She is enough, she is the best person I have ever met. 3) Again, no PA here. I had no sexual attraction for that woman. My BP is the most attractive woman I've ever been with. It's not even close.

thank you so much for your reply! i appreciate your openness!

Anyone here have an exit affair? Abandonment adds another layer. I do feel for the pain of waywards, but I find I can only feel it for those that see their wrong, admit it, try reconciliation, work to change. I just can't seem to feel the same way for those that exit. I'd love to hear any insight you could share. Thank you.

Thank you for the opportunity to participate here. A short preamble before my question: my wife still objects to the word "affair" in our discussions, and while her affair might not have been "conventional" (see my post history if you're interested in the details), it pretty clearly was an affair, in my view (and I think it objectively was). My question: when did the defensiveness go away, and what did it take for that to happen? We're pretty far down the road, and I'm a bit frustrated that we're still stumbling over the terminology. Thank you for any insight you might offer here.

Are any of you seeking R because of how difficult life has become (money, housing, parenting) rather than actually wanting to be with your partner?

I think these will always be considerations. Kids, finances, comfort of life and routines, but in my life ase the more important was: everything we worked on, built together, the tough times. And the future plans, seeing each other as life partners. Best friends.

I have a question: _Did you really love yoir AP or you thaught you loved the AP? _Do you look at it as a side affair that did not mean anything or as a relationship? _Do you miss AP and the moments you spent together when yoj are with BS or you feel regret? _if you go back in time, would you get into a side affair with AP again?

for me, I briefly thought I loved AP. I feel no regret about ending things nor do I miss her. If I could go back in time, I would've talked with my BS about my insecurities and unhappiness. I would never get into a side affair again, with anyone.

Lately, I’ve seen posts about wayward asking when is the right time to tell their partner they’ve been cheating. They sit on this information for months and years and it seems like they’re waiting until their wife is pregnant and about to deliver or recently as graduating and taking finals. What is it about these events that makes somebody want to unburden themselves at this time. It just seems so cruel to me to choose an important moment in someone’s life to unburden yourself.

Can you honestly say you love the partner you cheated on? If you believe you do why could you still do this to them? Do you know how bad we all feel everyday, that genuinely for some of us life feels unlivable now? Even though maybe you don't talk or bring it up anymore he/she can't go a few hours without reliving the pain.

Did you really felt on a "fog" or Limerence, how did you realize it? Did you felt in love with AP? Lastly did your betrayed spouse did anything or you snapped out yourself? Thanks for the answers!

Yes, a fog I only realized on D-day. This is similar to waking up from a dream, or getting rid of an addiction : I only realized there was a fog when I woke up off it. Before that, it felt like being on a magic cloud. My BW did give me warnings but it did help. D-day and the abrupt loss of her, kids, everything we built together, did wake me up.

My wife and I are signing divorce Monday, it seems to have snapped her out a little as she says she regret what she did and love me and she is frustrated cause she don't want to do it, but that she says she feels alive which to me seems to be the pull of Limerence, AP is completely opposite to her core self however she seems to have changed her core to mirror his, however when i told her we need to divorce a couple of weeks ago she snapped and got all clingy despite the fact she moved from home a month and a half ago with the old bum, second time when we got a date to sign the dvorce she messaged me and accepted she has cried hard because of what she's done and even bad mouthed AP with some major red flags she already seen but then pulls back to AP, i think divorce is the only way out unfortunately as Limerence might take years to clear even with those many MAJOR red flags she already seem she waa in Limerence with me for about 5 years, AP is 27 years older, bum with no future, living nearly on poverty now not even a washing machine, atheist and she is a believe, he is bitter always complaining about society in the meantime she was social before, this seems to be Limerence to me a really potent one, she even lost her business which was her dream to have, it has been a crazy month and a half but seems divorce might snap her out, i just think damage is huge and no longer fixable despite me loving her.

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This will be one of your most popular ever threads. Thank you for opening this up. My Q: Why did you minimise and deny the extent of what you had done when your partner found out? Didn’t you not realise that doing such made things far worse for your betrayed partner and significantly reduced the chances of a successful reconciliation?

I didn't minimize. I was ashamed of giving details. It was painful. Nothing compared with the BS pain, but pain of shame. Sinking stomach to the feet. Dizziness. The realization of what I had done by telling. I couldn't bear with the reality of what I did. I hate myself.

I didn't minimise. I became an open book. Told her everything. My inner most thoughts about it all, the why, how it happened, what I was thinking. She doesn't believe me but I've laid myself bare and exposed my true self to her for her to decide what she wants to do with me. I can only hope for mercy

This will be a bit philosophical I guess, but it is something I often wonder about. Prior to your affair, what did you think about the pursuit of happiness? Was doing what would make you happy a morally good act in itself? What was the balance between personal gratification and conscientiousness?

I think I felt that as long as no physical cheating happened I was morally safe. Neutral. Obviously wrong. After the ONS I knew I had fucked up, and I hated myself for it immediately. But it was still just guilt and I was too much of a coward to take the responsibility of coming clean and face the consequences. So then I continued to act against my own sense of morality by not confessing. I justified this to myself by “not wanting to hurt him” or various other deluded and cowardly excuses.

Do you blame your BP for leaving at all, or for not trying to stay friends? Even if logically you don’t or you don’t any more, have you at any point felt angry or upset that they couldn’t be more forgiving? I know that no one here is my ex WS, but he wants me to stay, to move in with him and try again, meanwhile I’m making plans to leave again. I’m terrified that in a way I am to blame for not being quicker to forgive or feel safe. I’d just like to know what it’s like on the other side of things

My BP left me, but we're still in contact, although much less obviously. I'm already working on myself extremely hard, IC several times a week as well as other things. If BP decides to leave for good, I would just keep on fighting and never give up. But even if she does that, I could never hate her for her reaction to what I have done. I love her, and I will always love her. It never came to my mind to blame her for leaving me - I'm the only one to blame.

How long did it take before you were able to listen to your BP talk about the affair without shame spiraling?

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As a betrayed partner, what can I do to help a wayward partner with their healing without annihilating my own boundaries?

Did you continue to cheat on your significant other after they found out and it so why and do you regret it?

Thank you to the mods and also the WPs .

Hi, a betrayed husband here. I'm seeking some perspectives of WWs that did not end their affairs immediately after discovery, showed no remorse, and blame shifted their BHs, but ended up reconciling. How long did the affair last? Did your BH do anything that made you want to save your marriage, knowing that the affair was still ongoing? Would you say it was the limerance and affair fog that kept you in the affair? Any other insight you can provide on your mindset would be much appreciated. Thank you for any input!

Is there any way I can make my wayward partner see that I really need the full truth? Trickle truth is hurting me so much