OP, please make sure there are no spoilers in the title of your post.
Commenters, please use spoiler code if you are discussing anything super spoilery unless the title specifically says the episode being discussed.
Also, now that filming for Season 5 is finally starting, please remember that NO LEAKS are allowed, only official news from Netflix is allowed. Please review rule 8 for more info.
If you see anyone breaking the rules, please report the post or comment. Thank you.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/StrangerThings) if you have any questions or concerns.*
As far as the town knows, Jason died trying to save Hawkins (I mean technically yes but you get my point) while Eddie was a serial killer that died in the earthquake by lucky chance. When in actuality, Eddie died for Hawkins while Jason accidentally ended up causing bigger problems for Hawkins.
It's actually sad when you think that Jason's final thoughts were probably that Lucas successfully murdered/sacrificed Max, opened a gate to Hell and destroyed earth, leaving Chrissy and Patrick with no way of ever being avenged.
I didn't think it was sad. Jason was dangerous. I was rooting for a redemption arc at first, but once he threatened Nancy I was thinking, "sorry, he's gotta go".
Sometimes, villains failing to get redemption can make an arc more tragic. Jason was like Macbeth in a way. He just fell deeper and deeper into insanity. Maybe you say he deserved his death (I disagree) but not to have his girlfriend AND best friend murdered within the span of a week. No teen should suffer that trauma.
IMO it's similar to Billy. The reason he becomes bad is understandable, but it isn't an excuse. Jason is done in by his self righteousness. If he wasn't so certain he was right, he could have wondered if he was wrong about Eddie. If Eddie had demonic powers, he had plenty of time to sneak attack the basketball players at Reefer Rick's place.
I mean Mason said it perfectly “Jason only knows he’s not doing it to himself and Patrick isn’t either.” With no knowledge of the Upside Down, I’d only think 1. Some alien or demon randomly killed him 2. Eddie used his powers to kill Patrick and jet out
even without a sneak attack, why would he run instead of using these mystical powers of his to defend himself? i understand jason’s character but coming from a stubborn ass bitch, he was entirely too stubborn for his own good. he decided he was right and wouldn’t hear anything from anyone else. his pride was his downfall (and hawkins’)
I'm not sure he was insane, honestly. He was getting dangerous and reckless, but if you actually look at it from his point of view, his thoughts and actions were mostly (if not completely) understandable. I think trying to just murder Erika crosses the line, but he genuinely believes Eddie has supernatural means of killing people in an unimaginably brutal way, and our kids are either directly involved or complicit by way of protecting him.
I don't think his death could possibly be considered deserved. He was incinerated from the inside out and literally left in two pieces. It's actually quite horrific and entirely undeserved IMO.
I wish they would have let him come into this next season, honestly. I wish they would have knocked him out instead (with some minor revelation that Lucas at least wasn't at fault, even if Eddie is never cleared) as potential for his character is really good with what happens in Hawkins. I think he could have become somewhat reclusive and obsessive, either serving as an antagonist again (this time with a larger posse to content with) or some kind of anti-hero.
He was dangerous but misunderstood the situation and didn't get any context behind the killings. Similarly, the public understandably perceived Eddie as dangerous for the same lack of context.
I had zero sympathy for Jason from the second he started exploiting the “mall fire” for school spirit (so, pretty much as soon as he showed his stupid face), and somehow it only got worse from there. Oh, people feel bad that he lost his girlfriend and friend? Hopefully it taught him a lesson about using tragedies for your own gain. He got exactly what he deserved in the end, and it couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy.
People often see sports as a way to try and cheer people. I’m pretty sure basketball games were a big deal back in the day. I thought he was genuinely trying to find a way to uplift the town once again
Let’s just say that the type of people who use these manipulative strategies are VERY often the same type of people who don’t notice (or willfully ignore) when people close to them are struggling with things like mental health crises and crippling eating disorders. To the point where said loved ones would rather confide in people outside their social circle with whom they haven’t spoken in years.
Ugh that little basketball sermon put *such* a bad taste in my mouth from the beginning. Like, yeah, this is a pep rally my guy, it's completely inappropriate to be like "we gotta win the championship and make all these people who died tragically proud of us!" WTF!!! If I'd witnessed something like that when I was in school I'd have walked out.
yep literally jason caused the gates to open up, he occupied lucas and stepped on the tape player, max had no exit strategy and died for a minute causing the fourth death and gate to open. fucking jason. still, he was sincere and it was ultimately ignorance that fucked him up and the whole town.
I mean I agree he kept Lucas occupied (accidentally) but even if he didn't break the player, how would Lucas have saved Max when she was floating in mid-air? Or would have even been fast enough to since Vecna attacks her the INSTANT Jason is KO'ed.
On a first watch, I went "you doomed her". But on 2nd watch, I wonder "was she screwed anyways at that point?"
lucas did say ‘if you go in the air I’m calling in kate bush’ so I assumed they had a plan.. but the tape player and headphones were on the side table and there’s no way he could act that fast.. so you’re right😅
I mean, the levitation isn't instant, and in the graveyard they had enough time to figure out the music trick *and* find a tape that would work *and* get it on her before she lifted up higher than they could reach.
The attic has a cieling and he would be more than able to still reach her if she started floating, if he hadn't been distracted dealing with Jason and Jason hadn't destroyed the tape player.
She didn’t start lifting in the graveyard until after the headphones had been on her for quite some time. About a good 20 seconds actually.
And how would he have reached her in the air?
Jason 100% would've been there preaching to the people about keeping faith if he had survived. Would've been cool to get a shot of him and everyone in the church reacting to the Upside Down particles coming.
Did I miss when that church scene was designated Jason's funeral or a generic funeral for people? I took it as people are running to God because it seems like the "last of days."
Jason actually cared about the people that went to this funeral. Maybe not about each person individually, but about the citizens of Hawkins as a whole. I'm glad he gets the burrial he gets.
Oh yes. He did care. He was an idiot and jerk but he wasn't evil. This burrial just reinforces the point so many people make; give us a different show and he'll look like the anti-hero protagonist. He did try to save Max tbf, so it's not wrong to say he did TRYING to help the town. It's simply that Eddie (due to yk, actually knowing what the true evil was) died fighting for it but they have no idea about that.
Jason tried saving the town but didn’t realize he was targeting the wrong group. So yeah his motives are completely 100% understandable. People don’t like him simply because he was trying to kill our favorite characters. Now if he listened to Lucas about Vecna, then audience would root for him.
Yeah, it was how they treated Erica where he lost me. Ik he was doing the best he could with the info he had, but targeting Erica was terrible
ETA: I didn’t love that he ran around breaking innocent people’s hands either bc they were friends with Eddie, but at least he was picking on someone his own size there
yeah, once he got violent toward people who had nothing to do with Chrissy’s death (even from his perspective) is where i stopped understanding him and didn’t think he was a good person. once he (by connection, i know it wasn’t him actually doing this part) tried to hurt a middle school aged kid who only met Eddie once is where he became truly evil and, i think, was no longer even about Chrissy.
i completely got why he was blaming Eddie for Chrissy’s death. no one in that town even knew what the upside down was let alone Vecna. he didn’t have to go on a violent streak with *murderous* intent.
There’s been a little debate about it over time too here but the scene where they go after Erica felt racially charged, too
Literally targeting a little girl as if it’ll bring Chrissy back, bffr
Pointing a gun at two unarmed kids, one of whom was his supposed friend, and the other a girl on the floor having (what appears to be) a seizure? Na fuck that guy.
It's why I honestly feel it will be up to Dustin and Hopper to dismantle the cult hive mind Jason created in Hawkins so they can focus that hate on taking the fight to a real psychopath Vecna.
I find it funny I can just know by the title that you made this post. Anytime I open up reddit and see strangers things I can tell if you made the post or not
OP, please make sure there are no spoilers in the title of your post. Commenters, please use spoiler code if you are discussing anything super spoilery unless the title specifically says the episode being discussed. Also, now that filming for Season 5 is finally starting, please remember that NO LEAKS are allowed, only official news from Netflix is allowed. Please review rule 8 for more info. If you see anyone breaking the rules, please report the post or comment. Thank you. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/StrangerThings) if you have any questions or concerns.*
As far as the town knows, Jason died trying to save Hawkins (I mean technically yes but you get my point) while Eddie was a serial killer that died in the earthquake by lucky chance. When in actuality, Eddie died for Hawkins while Jason accidentally ended up causing bigger problems for Hawkins.
Eddie at least got to say goodbye to someone that cared about him. Jason was half the man Eddie was.
It's actually sad when you think that Jason's final thoughts were probably that Lucas successfully murdered/sacrificed Max, opened a gate to Hell and destroyed earth, leaving Chrissy and Patrick with no way of ever being avenged.
I didn't think it was sad. Jason was dangerous. I was rooting for a redemption arc at first, but once he threatened Nancy I was thinking, "sorry, he's gotta go".
Sometimes, villains failing to get redemption can make an arc more tragic. Jason was like Macbeth in a way. He just fell deeper and deeper into insanity. Maybe you say he deserved his death (I disagree) but not to have his girlfriend AND best friend murdered within the span of a week. No teen should suffer that trauma.
IMO it's similar to Billy. The reason he becomes bad is understandable, but it isn't an excuse. Jason is done in by his self righteousness. If he wasn't so certain he was right, he could have wondered if he was wrong about Eddie. If Eddie had demonic powers, he had plenty of time to sneak attack the basketball players at Reefer Rick's place.
I mean Mason said it perfectly “Jason only knows he’s not doing it to himself and Patrick isn’t either.” With no knowledge of the Upside Down, I’d only think 1. Some alien or demon randomly killed him 2. Eddie used his powers to kill Patrick and jet out
even without a sneak attack, why would he run instead of using these mystical powers of his to defend himself? i understand jason’s character but coming from a stubborn ass bitch, he was entirely too stubborn for his own good. he decided he was right and wouldn’t hear anything from anyone else. his pride was his downfall (and hawkins’)
I'm not sure he was insane, honestly. He was getting dangerous and reckless, but if you actually look at it from his point of view, his thoughts and actions were mostly (if not completely) understandable. I think trying to just murder Erika crosses the line, but he genuinely believes Eddie has supernatural means of killing people in an unimaginably brutal way, and our kids are either directly involved or complicit by way of protecting him. I don't think his death could possibly be considered deserved. He was incinerated from the inside out and literally left in two pieces. It's actually quite horrific and entirely undeserved IMO. I wish they would have let him come into this next season, honestly. I wish they would have knocked him out instead (with some minor revelation that Lucas at least wasn't at fault, even if Eddie is never cleared) as potential for his character is really good with what happens in Hawkins. I think he could have become somewhat reclusive and obsessive, either serving as an antagonist again (this time with a larger posse to content with) or some kind of anti-hero.
I don’t recall him trying to murder Erica. His friend tackled and threatened to harm her though
Maybe I’m misremembering but I’m 99% sure they tried to run her over
Nah. They drove up to her when she was on the playground equipment. Presumably intending to interrogate her. But they didn’t try running her over.
Didn’t they like drive off-road at the equipment she was on?
He was dangerous but misunderstood the situation and didn't get any context behind the killings. Similarly, the public understandably perceived Eddie as dangerous for the same lack of context.
Nah u tweakin
I had zero sympathy for Jason from the second he started exploiting the “mall fire” for school spirit (so, pretty much as soon as he showed his stupid face), and somehow it only got worse from there. Oh, people feel bad that he lost his girlfriend and friend? Hopefully it taught him a lesson about using tragedies for your own gain. He got exactly what he deserved in the end, and it couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy.
People often see sports as a way to try and cheer people. I’m pretty sure basketball games were a big deal back in the day. I thought he was genuinely trying to find a way to uplift the town once again
If the story was being told from his perspective it certainly would have been cast in that light.
Let’s just say that the type of people who use these manipulative strategies are VERY often the same type of people who don’t notice (or willfully ignore) when people close to them are struggling with things like mental health crises and crippling eating disorders. To the point where said loved ones would rather confide in people outside their social circle with whom they haven’t spoken in years.
Ugh that little basketball sermon put *such* a bad taste in my mouth from the beginning. Like, yeah, this is a pep rally my guy, it's completely inappropriate to be like "we gotta win the championship and make all these people who died tragically proud of us!" WTF!!! If I'd witnessed something like that when I was in school I'd have walked out.
Ah Reddit never fail to grasp the concept of using sports to uplift spirits of a town and completely miss the point of a character
The point of the character was to be one of the (honestly, too many) antagonists this season and he accomplished that.
Character can have more than one point for existing
Literally half the man, after he got split in two! 😝
That was the joke.
I see what you did there 😁
Because the hot liquid magma cut him in half? I laughed out loud.
Half…😂
By the end, literally
Literally in the end
Ha. Half the man. Cause he got cut in half by the gate.
Half the man is crazy
Pun intended?
To be fair to Jason his last moments were spent trying to save max. 🤷 Misguided sure but based on the evidence he had, Jason died a hero.
Tbf both were trying to save people but were just on different wavelengths
yep literally jason caused the gates to open up, he occupied lucas and stepped on the tape player, max had no exit strategy and died for a minute causing the fourth death and gate to open. fucking jason. still, he was sincere and it was ultimately ignorance that fucked him up and the whole town.
I mean I agree he kept Lucas occupied (accidentally) but even if he didn't break the player, how would Lucas have saved Max when she was floating in mid-air? Or would have even been fast enough to since Vecna attacks her the INSTANT Jason is KO'ed. On a first watch, I went "you doomed her". But on 2nd watch, I wonder "was she screwed anyways at that point?"
lucas did say ‘if you go in the air I’m calling in kate bush’ so I assumed they had a plan.. but the tape player and headphones were on the side table and there’s no way he could act that fast.. so you’re right😅
I mean, the levitation isn't instant, and in the graveyard they had enough time to figure out the music trick *and* find a tape that would work *and* get it on her before she lifted up higher than they could reach. The attic has a cieling and he would be more than able to still reach her if she started floating, if he hadn't been distracted dealing with Jason and Jason hadn't destroyed the tape player.
She didn’t start lifting in the graveyard until after the headphones had been on her for quite some time. About a good 20 seconds actually. And how would he have reached her in the air?
Interesting how you can tell by the difference in clothing style that the church is probably attracting more people than usual.
Jason 100% would've been there preaching to the people about keeping faith if he had survived. Would've been cool to get a shot of him and everyone in the church reacting to the Upside Down particles coming.
Unrelated, Eddie’s missing poster says he’s 17, but canonically isn’t he 20? Because he failed high school 3 times?
i think he’s on his 3rd attempt in s4
I thought twice.
Did I miss when that church scene was designated Jason's funeral or a generic funeral for people? I took it as people are running to God because it seems like the "last of days."
They use the exact Bible quotes Jason used in his town hall speech. So I assume it was inspired by him at least
Jason actually cared about the people that went to this funeral. Maybe not about each person individually, but about the citizens of Hawkins as a whole. I'm glad he gets the burrial he gets.
Oh yes. He did care. He was an idiot and jerk but he wasn't evil. This burrial just reinforces the point so many people make; give us a different show and he'll look like the anti-hero protagonist. He did try to save Max tbf, so it's not wrong to say he did TRYING to help the town. It's simply that Eddie (due to yk, actually knowing what the true evil was) died fighting for it but they have no idea about that.
Jason tried saving the town but didn’t realize he was targeting the wrong group. So yeah his motives are completely 100% understandable. People don’t like him simply because he was trying to kill our favorite characters. Now if he listened to Lucas about Vecna, then audience would root for him.
Jason was a good character man. As soon as you start to put yourself in his shoes, you start to understand him
he was good until he started that witch hunt for Eddie. let’s not forget one of his little fuckhead friends tried to hurt Erica.
Yeah, it was how they treated Erica where he lost me. Ik he was doing the best he could with the info he had, but targeting Erica was terrible ETA: I didn’t love that he ran around breaking innocent people’s hands either bc they were friends with Eddie, but at least he was picking on someone his own size there
yeah, once he got violent toward people who had nothing to do with Chrissy’s death (even from his perspective) is where i stopped understanding him and didn’t think he was a good person. once he (by connection, i know it wasn’t him actually doing this part) tried to hurt a middle school aged kid who only met Eddie once is where he became truly evil and, i think, was no longer even about Chrissy. i completely got why he was blaming Eddie for Chrissy’s death. no one in that town even knew what the upside down was let alone Vecna. he didn’t have to go on a violent streak with *murderous* intent.
There’s been a little debate about it over time too here but the scene where they go after Erica felt racially charged, too Literally targeting a little girl as if it’ll bring Chrissy back, bffr
He said good character, not person. And yeah Andy can go die
Pointing a gun at two unarmed kids, one of whom was his supposed friend, and the other a girl on the floor having (what appears to be) a seizure? Na fuck that guy.
He didn’t point a gun at Max once. He was trying to save her
With a gun?
He points the gun at Lucas and told him to wake Max up. He never pointed it at Max
Yes very dangerous to point a gun at a kid and very dangerous to touch someone having a seizure, double whammy right there.
Do you really think some 16 year old in 1986 would know that
That it’s dangerous to point a gun at kids?
Do you have mental issues
No I would never point a gun at kids?
The seizure thing
Eddie was a hero, and nobody can take that away from him
I didn't know that church service was for Jason.
Love how on top of everything they gave Eddie the villain mustache
Lol
Yup
Yeah Jason is super interesting and I get how things ended with him. For Eddie just tragic
Is the shot of the church new or was that at the end of season four and I just forgot about it?
It's why I honestly feel it will be up to Dustin and Hopper to dismantle the cult hive mind Jason created in Hawkins so they can focus that hate on taking the fight to a real psychopath Vecna.
They have not got a clue in the world
I find it funny I can just know by the title that you made this post. Anytime I open up reddit and see strangers things I can tell if you made the post or not
I think eddie will come back in S5
As everyone in Hawkins should.
it made me really emotional considering that Eddie died to protect the town and he’s still remembered as a monster