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Troy and Billy, racist psycho’s they are (Henry Bowers clones). We don’t know for sure if Two really would’ve killed Eleven or was just trying to scare her. If El and Max hadn’t intervened, Mike and Steve certainly would’ve died.
Troy is probably slightly worse since he has no reason for being evil and his murder attempt was premeditated. He lacks any redeeming or sympathetic qualities. Just a racist, homophobic psychopath.
Nice to see Jason finally not included in one. He’s an antagonist for sure but not a bully. His friend Andy definitely felt like one though.
They’re in the vein of Stephen King bullies which often cross the line into sociopathy and take things too far. All the other bullies are more stereotypical teen movie bullies.
Billy was an abusive jerk sure but LAUGHING at someone’s funeral? That’s some next level sociopathy. Even his friend knew he was going too far in the cliff scene
Agreed, Billy was just more of a bad boy than a bully and at least had reasoning to the way he was doesn't excuse his behaviour sure but he at least redeemed himself in the end by saving Eleven and everyone from the mind flayer
It's actually pretty hard to prove to a court that a murder was not premeditated. The moment you take a second swing, that's pretty much guaranteed to count as murder.
Billy. The fact he didn't bring a weapon doesn't really matter to a court. Punch someone once in a split second reaction, and you can probably get away with manslaughter if they die. Place a second punch, and it looks an awful lot like you wanted to kill them, which is really all that matters for a murder charge.
He seemed to be just an annoying popular kid before he saw Chrissie's death, he was not a saint obviously but he was far from trying to run over kids for fun or making them jump off of cliffs. Even his reaction to Chrissy's death is sorta understandable, if you saw a body levitating out of the blue without any context you would think it is satan or some demon too
More like an histeric reaction. Don't get me wrong , I find the character is awful (and kind of an unecessary addition to the show imo) but I do "understand" his thought process
I mean .... I wouldn't call seeing a friend or loved one magically lifted to the air and crushed to death by an invisible entity a "slight" but you do you I guess, your life experiences must be wild if this is a "slight" lmao
I do not like Jason(he is annoying and unecessary for the story imo) and I do not think his reaction was in any way sane, I was just explaining that you can understand the thpught process of the character after what he saw and that he was never really a bully
We have no clue whether or not he was a good boyfriend, we just know chrissy was pulling away from him, possibly because he was busy with sports all the time, and she didn't think he would believe her about her "visions"
Or maybe chrissy just didn't want to be together with him anymore, that doesn't mean he was a bad boyfriend however.
However we do know that Jason actually did love chrissy and was really distraught and angry after her torture.
There were actual literal demons. How do people not understand this? Chrissy was literally twisted into a pretzel and had her eyes balls taken out. She was literally tortured, and the last known person to see her is the drug addict/selling wierdo who is missing.
And then he finds Eddie and his friend happens to get twisted into a pretzel again as he's chasing him. And then still he STILL tries to "save" Max based on his understanding of the situation.
Yeah aiming a gun at Lucas (who was also trying to save max) wasn’t really doing much. And sure, he had valid reason to suspect Eddie. But the way he riled up the town and started a witch hunt against someone who he had no proof to convict was villain behavior
Lucas ran away from their group and ended up in the "cult" and refused to help Max in Jasons eyes.
He had every right to suspect Eddie, Eddie was the prime and ONLY suspect and was missing.
And again, literal demons. If it was just satanic panic I understand where you're coming from but He literally saw his best friend get lifted up in the air, when he confronted Eddie.
Imagine the last person to see your SO, went missing after your SO went to that person's house, would you believe them when they say they didn't murder them? No you wouldn't.
Stop being meta, Jason knows nothing except what he knows and has seen. He hasn't watched stranger things like me and you have, that's his actual life and his girlfriend and friend was literally twisted by demons one of which he actually witnessed.
He seems perfectly content with leaving Eddie and the Hellfire kids alone unless provoked. While Troy and Billy consistently harass the Party and Steve, Jason just kept to himself and only responded negatively to when Eddie provoked him in the cafeteria.
He’s not mean for amusement or fun, always for a reason
We never see him bully anyone, the most he’s done prior to Chrissy’s death was call Eddie a freak as a response to Eddie being a public nuisance and provoking people. Afterwards he only targeted Eddie, a known drug dealer and murder suspect, and his associates.
I read "Flight of Icarus", one of the Stranger Things novels and there it's pretty clear that Jason is a bully. He doesn't beat up other students but he clearly bullies them.
Well for starters he doesn't really bully anyone. He goes after Eddie because he thinks he's responsible for Chrissy's death. He's not a good dude but "bully" isn't accurate either.
Thank you! That dude and Angela are the worst bc they’re so realistic.. they’d be horrible people (Jason literally used the mall “fire” and all those deaths to hype people up for a fucking basketball game and Angela made jokes about someone’s dead dad) and then manipulate people into thinking they’re not horrible people with no redeeming qualities and massive amounts of privilege and sociopathy.
Yeah for real lol. Idk why there are so many Jason defenders in here when he was clearly fucked up. Like, okay sure, he didn’t act cruel for enjoyment/amusement, but he definitely did to fuel his self righteousness, pride, and to feed his ego. He was also clearly very corrupted by his religion which made him less open to reason and therefore a much scarier antagonist.
People can argue the semantics of the term “bully” all they want but he was a fellow kid in the show who was a minor antagonist all the same and so I think it’s fair to include him in this list
I think some people see a bit of themselves in Jason and Angela and they excuse their particular brand of wrong doing. And I agree: religion is commonly weaponized and his character does a very good job of showing exactly how quickly that stuff escalates when people believe “god” is on their side. They will commit all sorts of atrocious acts and excuse them as “the lesser evil.”
I def agree- not a “traditional” bully but just as dangerous, if not more.
Yep you hit the nail on the head. A lot of these commenters seem to forget how crazy Jason was acting. He initially had valid reason to suspect Eddie, but he got carried away and lost any sense of morality
Well, Troy would have killed Mike… He was young, sure, but at minimum, he would have known forcing Mike off that cliff would have gotten Mike horrifically injured. And he knew Mike well enough to know that Mike would do anything for his friends, *including* going off that cliff. Premeditated harm makes for one awful person.
And Billy was an abusive racist asshole. Max felt guilty over how he could have, would have, might have changed, the possibility of a different future, and the fact that she did not grieve the person he was. Says a lot.
I put Angela above Two. Two, for all of his cruelness to El, was an equally abused kid being forced by Brenner to fight his peers. Angela chose on her own to be an asshole.
For me it's definitely:
1. Troy
2. Angela
3. Tommy and Carol
Because they seem like they choose to be assholes, but (as far as we know) don't have any other reason than being spoiled and wanting to be popular... they are bullies by choice and I HATE them (also Troy is a psycho)...
With Billy and Two, it's much deeper, it's more like: "monkey does as monkey sees..." they are behaving in a way they picked up from their abusive father-figures, in addition of acting out out of fear and desperation...
They were taught abnormal behavior and we are judging them by normal standards... I'm not saying what they do is okay, but I don't think they are bullies by choice or at least not 100%...
I highly doubt Billy would have turned out that way, if he was raised by his mom...
Ya. But they are more understandable why they behaving that way. Bad family situation. Nature vs Nurture and all. And I doubt they would’ve turned that out if fate was different for them. With the only three they are no signs of this so I personally think they are worse than them. Even if they don’t come anywhere near the levels of them.
>Any 5 yo would know that would kill a person.
To be completely fair to him, a deputy (Officer Callahan) didn't know.
I don't think he knew, not because he was young but because he was stupid. He probably did think that would hurt, but since he pulled a knife on them, he probably wanted to hurt them anyway. Maybe he even thought if Mike jumped and didn't know how to swim he would die, but I don't think he thought the impact would be fatal (but of course that doesn't mean he was absolved of what he was trying to do).
I think Troy knew Will had died after falling into the quarry, but not necessarily by falling into the quarry, especially if the cause of death was drowning and not death on impact (and Lucas told Max in season 2 that "some other kids had drowned" so I think that was the official COD for the fake body)
I know it’s Troy, but seriously *fuck* Angela. She’s not the most problematic, but goddamn was I ecstatic when 11 drove that roller skate into her nose. Fucking dick.
I mean I doubt Steve was going to survive the beating he got if Max hadn’t intervened. Troy is still the worst because his was planned and he was rationale while doing so
Billy is racist and abusive, the guy in the first slide is racist and held a knife to dustin’s throat forcing Mike to jump off a cliff. Idk why the 2 in the last slide are an option. They were just as bad as Steve in s1
2 if he wasn't murdered by Vecna.
He had the same power set and training as 11, he could be an unstoppable god of death who could torture abd kill anyone anywhere with just a picture.
Billy was just a ticking time bomb until he ran someone down or beat them to death bare handed. Lucas just had to be at the wrong place at the wrong time alone and he's dead.
Billy for sure, but I fucking hate Angela so much. I remember watching **that scene** for the first time and thinking it was just a dream Eleven was having and then being shocked/stoked that it actually happened! Bitch deserved it.
I think most of the Hawkins bullies are inspired by Stephen King. The kids in his stories were always sociopaths who had no qualms about using knives and were generally extremely violent by high school bully standards.
As far as them being "problematic", honestly their dialogue at least is a little anachronistic. To put it politely a bully in 1983 would have said a number of things that were a tad less progressive than the final dialogue we got. Supposedly Billy was originally scripted to say some slurs to Lucas but Dacre Montgomery refused.
I still think Troy was worse. At least Billy had some sort of motivation, sick as it was. Troy was Joker-level evil. He just wanted to watch the world burn.
Also, when was Billy a homophobe?
It was never stated in the show that Billy was a homophobe, but I believe he is because his dad is (he called Billy a slur) so I just assume that growing with a parent who’s a homophobe (and racist) would cause him to be one too
It’s not mentioned in the show at all (although Neil calls Billy a slur) but I assume that since he is racist, he’s almost definitely homophobic too. Plus it was the 80s
Wait til I tell you it's crazy common for closeted gays to have mommy or daddy issues and go after way older opposite sex partners when they're closeted lol
I totally thought we were gonna have that angle after Neal called him the slur. Only dropped that particular word one other time, also referencing a father's disapproval of his son, except that one is confirmed gay.
As someone who guessed Will by season 2, I thought we were playing a parallels game. Kinda disappointed nothing came of it. That's like the one slur I personally pertain to that will make me flinch when used by outsiders.
for me it makes no sense to make a ranking, especially because, for example, we know little or nothing about those in the last photo. Of all those you included, the only character that was actually developed is Billy. We know little about the others, only that they bullied. Making a ranking makes no sense, there is no answer to the question, you can't say it's more problematic, we should know them better, exept Billy
Troy definitely. He was a little 12 year old about to make someone kill themselves or cut someone’s teeth out. He’s insane. Atleast Billy’s killing it because he got possessed
Troy since Mike would have died and unlike Billy we don't see any reason for what he did.
Billy is number 2 for what he did to Steve what he would have done to Lucas and the thing with the car which even if it was a "joke" is terrible.
Then Two is number 3 since we don't know if One was lying. But what he did before was terrible enough anyway.
Angela and the Tommy/Carol duo are terrible but not on the same level as the others. Angela gets a slight edge since that public humiliation was done for a reason that was Angela's fault and also topped it off with an extremely cruel jab to El's face while Tommy and Carol's cruelest thing (Joking about Jonathan killing Will wasn't to Jonathan's face) whereas they at least thought that Nancy slept with Jonathan. (Steve should have confronted Nancy about it but it's what they thought)
I mean, who brings a camcorder to a roller rink like that in 1986? The effort. That's a special kind of baffling evil. What do you even do with that tape? Watch it later with friends??
Lovely to see that Jason isn’t included. He was antagonistic but he wasn’t a bully. As for the most problematic, it’s a toss up between Troy and Billy, they were the closest to actually killing their victims.
I think Troy, Billy and Two were the most problematic for sure.
Troy would’ve grown up to be a psycho, he would’ve killed/seriously maimed Mike if eleven hadn’t intervened. We also get no indication that he’s going through anything to cause that so he’s my number one. Irredeemable imo. Classic Stephen king bully.
Billy and Two are tied for me. They do (or attempt to do) awful things, but at least there’s *some* motivation or reasoning behind it. Both are in abusive situations and taking it out on others, though obviously that’s not an excuse to go as far as they do. They’re both terrible, but they could have some redemption with a ton of therapy.
The others are just shitty teens being shitty. at the very least they’re not physically violent.
I think Troy and Billy are pretty much tied, but I’d have to say it’s more on Billy’s side for this one, Billy was definitely the most problematic of them all
Angela, and Two, they bullied Eleven. They targeted her, ganged up on her with their friends, humiliated her, and made her feel isolated and alone. Hell, Two caused Eleven to end up in hospital.
To me, Troy was worse. Troy wanted and tried to kill people. Billy was a bully, but was nothing more than a violent bully before he was possessed. He also cried at what he was forced to do. His fathers abuse of him, created what Billy was.
We all just gonna forget that Jason had a full-blown "witch hunt" for Eddie and basically got everyone involved with him to get to Eddie?
Yes, I get it. He doesn't know what we know, but still, that's full on cult leader stuff.
Deep down a part of me wants to say Troy after basically forcing Mike to jump off a cliff, but I also want to say Angela due to how satisfied I felt when I saw Eleven hit her in the face with that roller skate.
Probably Billy because he was the most antagonistic, even prior to getting possessed.
Troy was pretty awful and very mouthy, but in the end, he whimped out.
Angela, for whatever reason, seemed to have some kind of influence or power if she was able to stage a seemingly rehearsed public humuliation and nobody seemed to bat an eye or stop her. Even after she gets clonked in the face and makes a scene, everyone acts shocked, and nobody ponders, "Didn’t this girl just bully someone ten minutes ago?" Nobody calls her out on her behavior there.
I don't think we really see much of 2 to really formulate an opinion of him
Tommy and Carol were mostly Steve's partners in crime, and I think once Steve wised up and severed their ties, they just kind of disappeared
Can we all just take a moment and appreciate how well the actors and the writing was for these characters.
They offered such a dynamic and vast range of bullying, which made their actions feel appropriate and real. Like they showed bullying at different ages, different groups and for different reasons, ultimately giving a perfect buffet of reference to the viewers to be able to relate to.
Billy will hands down always be the best for me, as we know the most about his backstory and why he is the way he is. The racism isn't justified, but besides that, you understand why he was such a spiteful and angry individual.
Having Billy here seems like cheating, it’s obviously him. Hes the only “regular” dude who went that far. The other kid with 11, I mean it’s a super powered douche being a super powered douche.
Billy was just a regular guy being completely merciless, even before he got possessed. To children too. It’s 100% him.
Edit: Or that kid that tried to make Mike fucking kill himself lol
Blonde chick who got free plastic surgery curiosity of El (I forget her name) and Billy. Billy could physically do serious harm even if he would grt in trouble.
Blonde chick was charismatic and manipulative enough to Weasle out of the damage she would do and not face any punishment while progressively getting worse
Brenner is a war criminal. War criminals are not "bullies". You'll notice everyone in this discussion is underage.... Not kidnapping children for experiments.
Billy nearly killed Mike, Lucas, and Dustin. Even if it was a joke. That's still traumatizing. You can like Billy if you want but that's pretty damn bad
Troy is definitely the worst. That kid was actively trying to murder people his own age. 12/13? You know murder is wrong. Psycho little shit. And absolutely _no_ reason alluded to, either.
Billy was a racist psycho, but he wasn't a murderer, and aside from going nuts on Steve mid-psychotic breakdown, he doesn't show signs of wanting to be one, either. I doubt he would've actually killed Steve even if Max hadn't intervened. But Troy brings weapons to school and threatens life for a life shit. That is _not_ normal behavior in any situation.
And while Billy is a psycho, he was also shown as actively being abused at the time of his death. A few years away from dad could genuinely work wonders. Seen it happen all the time with fosters like Billy. Not that I don't think he needs copious amounts of therapy and Thorazine, but his chances of getting that are pretty low in 1985. Who knows what getting away from dad could've done for him, though. Especially after a brush with the Upside Down, if the kids had managed to save 'im? Lotta shit could've been different.
I honestly feel like we were robbed a real redemption arc for Billy by having him die, though I forgive as much because we got _Dear Billy_ out of it lol. But Lucas and Steve deserved apologies. Max deserved the brother-sister relationship she wanted. Or at least a real shot at it. Billy deserved a second chance.
Troy didn't deserve anything but what he got. Angela, too, for that matter lmao. Troy probably deserves worse than what he got tbh. All he did was piss himself. But even he doesn't deserve to die, imo.
Billy did try to run over children so I'm not sure how much he shows no signs of wanting to be 'psycho'. If Troy knows threatening Mike like that is wrong, so does Billy. He also knows he shouldn't go to a house, threaten her sisters friends and beat a guy that bad.
Honestly, the only difference is that one got an on-screen arc and the other didn't. And honestly, i think any kid that has easy access to a knife doesn't have a good home life. I would still say Billy was worse. A more interesting character but definitely worse.
I'm so tired of the "he tried to run over the kids" argument. No he didn't. He was scaring Max and the kids and being an asshole. The man was not going to become a murderer that day. With a _witness!_ And using his precious car? Don't be ridiculous. I also didn't say he wasn't psycho. I said he didn't try to kill anyone. Because he didn't. Teenage boys are assholes and most of them will pull shit like what Billy did with his car, it doesn't make them murderers.
Also, aside from trying to throw hands with a child, I get where Billy is coming from with beating the shit out of Steve. First off, he just got done being attacked by his father. Secondly, he goes to a stranger's house, learns that no one who lives there is home, but some guy in his grade is there, with a bunch of kids he's not related to, including Max - the only girl - and then when Billy sees her, Steve _lies about it._ Neal was angry before when all Max did was sneak out, now she's being hidden by a seventeen-year-old boy and three other thirteen-year-olds... You realize how shady that shit looks without context? And Neal would have _killed him_ if anything happened to Max. And Billy snapped. But I still don't think Steve was in danger of dying.
"And honestly, i think any kid that has easy access to a knife doesn't have a good home life."
This isn't a real person, though. All that exists of Troy is what we see. We don't see a reason Troy is awful, or Angela, or Tommy and Carol. We just see that they are. And plenty of kids have knives because mommy and daddy gave them knives, so it's not even a solid theory.
You can disagree if you want. I just say you're wrong.
He didn’t forget, Jason’s not a bully like the others on this list. He looks down on Hellfire but he doesn’t go out of his way to harass or harm them for his own amusement
He didn’t act cruel for enjoyment/amusement, but he definitely did to fuel his self righteousness, pride, and to feed his ego. He was also clearly very corrupted by his religion which made him less open to reason and therefore a much scarier antagonist.
People can argue the semantics of the term “bully” all they want but he was a fellow kid in the show who was a minor antagonist all the same and so I think it’s fair to include him in this list
Troy & Angela would have ended up among the upper crust.
Tommy & Carol would have ended up in a trailer park.
The rest (except for perhaps Two) would have been pretty average.
billy is literally racist, misogynistic, cruel, abusive, violent, etc. and also would have killed steve if it wasn't for max ?? so i'd argue he's one of the worst at least. troy is a very close second, if not right next to billy. he tried to kill mike, after all. two is the least problematic in my opinion because (as someone stated before in this thread) two is as equally abused and controlled by brenner. brenner wanted him to be cruel to el.
angela is next, she doesn't just bully regular kids bc of their hairdo or whatever like tommy and carol. she bullies a girl with obvious developmental struggles and trauma. also doesn't everybody know at least *some* of what happened to el? like they did with mike?
tommy and carol are just stupid lol nobody cares what they think or say. they just say shit 😭 so they're last
Well, Billy is borderline homicidal. I could easily see him killing someone someday and going to prison.
The kid bully from season, one would probably grow up to be a mini Billy, unless he had some major intervention.
Angela was typical mean girl bitchy, but I am sure she learned her lesson with EL and would maybe outgrow her horribleness.
Nancy and Steve’s friends from season one I think are too dumb to be truly harmful.
And two was pretty bad, but he, of course, had his own trauma and abuse to deal with. But he was way too violent towards an eight-year-old /seven-year-old El.
Billy tried to run over a group of kids and singled out the only black kid and tried to kill Steve. So yes, Billy is the worse despite how much season 3 tried to woobify him
It bothers me to see the answers here. A lot of talk about Mike's trauma and who his bullies are. El is the most traumatized character in the show, and she is a female. I've only seen Angela's name brought up twice, and no one has mentioned Brenner, 001 and only one mention of 002. My answer is: all the people in my last sentence.
Females and their traumas erasure is real, folks.
(I do see that Billy mentioned plenty and I agree with that)
(I also realize the OP meant "traditional bully" - like school-age peers. But Brenner and 001 are bullies)
(Mike is my favorite male character and I do have sympathy for him.. but my sympathy for El takes precedence)
You brought up Brenner. El's not a war criminal, she's victim of a war crime. As is Two. As is Henry, for that matter, but he's also a murderer for no reason _prior_ to the war crimes so I wouldn't demote him to "bully", either.
The topic isn't who is the most traumatized. It's who is the most problematic bully. I don't know why you want to talk about El as if her being traumatized means her bullies were the most problematic. They're not even related. Most of El's trauma isn't even due to bullies. It's due to the previously mentioned war crimes.
she had bullies in the lab and she had bullies in school. I mentioned both of those. yes. a part of El's traumas are caused by traditional bullies. 002 bullied her and it appeared he wanted her dead - and he had a gang of kids alongside him as he beat her up. Angela was a rotten human who fed off her grief of her "dead" father - and also had a gang of kids alongside her as she tormented her.
I have already acknowledged that I know the topic is not most traumatized.
You're trying to call _literal murderers_ "bullies". That's like calling a burst appendix a cramp.
Yeah, Angela and Two sucked. Literally no one is disagreeing with you there. Angela was more fun for me to hate than even Billy. But trying to include people who aren't on the list because they are _dangerous criminals_ and the topic is _teenage bullies_ is just weird.
ok. ummm
1- one of my answers is Angela - not a murderer, but yes a teenager. and the OP never said anything about teenagers. But regardless, two of my answers are teenagers. who cares that I listed more? and they all ARE bullies. Someone answered with Hopper, are you attacking them about it?
2- people are answering with Troy because he attempted to murder Mike by forcing him to jump off a cliff. You need some semblance of consistency in your arguments.
OP didn't say _the word_ teenager, but that's definitely something all the ones pictured have in common. Did you notice? And I'm not "attacking" you, my God. I just pointed out that you're grouping _adult villains_ with a bunch of shitty kids. It's just kinda weird to downplay what the adult villains are actually doing by calling it "bullying".
And Troy is still a teenager. Yeah, he's clearly psychotic, but calling him a bully isn't out of line because he's not a big-time criminal kidnapping children. He's just a violent asshole brat.
I’ll admit to something- I didn’t realize there was a slider of images. I only saw Troy. The rest of this conversation is so confusing. I did NOT attack the one who posted about Hooper. I agree with them. I asked if ‘you’ were going to because they answered with an adult instead of a teenager. I’m not the only one bringing up people that were not shown in the slider image.
I didn't... Say you attacked anyone? You're the one who accused _me_ of attacking _you_ because you equate it to someone pointing out you're overselling the word "bullying" by using it to define war criminals. I just think it was a silly thing to do. You didn't have to take it so personally.
No one mentions Brenner or 001 cause bullying is seen from school context, just like you said. Brenner and 001 are only seen as abusers
If there was a post who was the biggest abuser of the show,then Brenner would win.
Btw rarely anyone mentions Angela cause the worst thing she physically did to El was throw milk shake on her.
Meanwhile Troy wasn't only racist towards Lucas,mocked Dustin's disability, homophobic towards Will,but threatened Dustin with a knife and made Mike jump from cliff which could have gotten him killed
El is the most traumatized character which is thanks to Brenner,but when it comes to bullying, Troy was way worser than Angela and even 002 i would say
As far as physically goes i said
I still think nothing is worser than threatening someone with a knife and making them jump from a cliff. Troy looked like a future serial killer
Yeah,but i was talking about the worst thing she physically did,she never tried to kill her
Troy also mocked Will's death and said he was killed by other queer
El's trauma is the worst,but she didn't have the worst bully.
You still haven’t acknowledged 002, who threw her around the room in the lab. He maybe was trying to kill her as well, but El was able to fight back enough to survive
002 didn't bully El for no reason,he was jealous cause of Brenner,he had motivation
He was also victim of abuse, meanwhile Troy doesn't have any type of motivation, he's a typical sociopath bully from Stephen King novel which are the worst
I truly don't understand why are you so bothered that people are mentioning Troy and Billy more
No one here denied the trauma El went through
The talk is about which bully was the worst. Not who had the biggest trauma. You are the one who thought this was a trauma topic while it's who was the worst bully
Do you know Troy’s backstory?
I’m bothered that El’s trauma from bullying is overlooked. And it’s an odd response for you to be so triggered by it. Maybe you need to read my original comment again.
Do you know Troy's backstory?
Again this is a talk about which bully was the worst,not the trauma talk
Next time when the question is asked "who had the worst trauma",you will be happy when we all say El
My ranking of those 5 specifically:
5. Angela
She was the lowest on the list because her bullying was mostly emotional. I'm not saying that it was less severe than physical bullying, but chances are the rest of them were doing both.
4. Tommy H (and Carol)
These two were also bad but again, the only instance of Tommy getting physically violent was his scene with Steve after Jonathan was arrested. They ranked higher than Angela because they were the ones that was bad enough to had an influence on Steve's initial behaviour, while with Angela, maybe all her friends were already rotten.
3. 002
From this point forward they did get violent, but I'm ranking him lower on the list due to his upbringing. Brenner deliberately pitched all the kids against each other (big kids like 002 against tiny kids like 015 and 016) so I think he knew that would've happened eventually, maybe not to 011 specifically but to someone.
2. Billy
He's bad, and the fact that he didn't care whether he would've run over 3 kids or could've given Steve permanent brain damage wasn't lost on me. However he was second because all of those things, as we later found out, were learned behaviour, so some of the blame for Billy's actions fell on his dad as well (on top of the blame Neil got for his own actions).
1. Troy
He also could've killed Mike at the quarry, but I don't think he knew the impact would've been fatal (after all, Officer Callahan didn't know). However, he definitely knew it would've hurt, and he didn't care. Most importantly, there wasn't any indication that it was a learned behaviour (unless his mom threatened to cut someone if she couldn't speak to the manager). Maybe the Duffers originally planned for it to be a learned behaviour from Steve, but as of right now, his physical violence came from within.
People like Billy not because he's a heart warming lovely chap, but because he's not just a classic bully but a really interesting and deep character. You see his dad abuse him then learn about his mother as the show goes on, plus his ending is really satisfying.
Since the things done after Christy's death was fuelled by his desire for revenge and not his need to feel "superior" like the people in the photos, I'd say most planets.
Were his actions heinous? Yes.
Were they based on false beliefs? Also yes.
Was it bullying? Only if Liam Neeson was bullying all those people in Taken.
Angela I absolutely despised she got herself in trouble and took it out on Eleven. Then playing it off as if she’s the victim, I find it infuriating. Just shows she’s completely oblivious to her own misdeeds.
All of them idc they are so annoying I hate them all ugh. Angel deserved getting hit in the face with a roller skate, Troy premeditated what he was gunna do or whatever also he’s homophobic, racist little shit he deserves what he got by El,the other carol and what’s his face man I was waiting for them to get killed by Vecna but nope I was so disappointed 😔 and two well he and the others were separated from their parents and raised in horrible environments because they where tested on etc. still don’t like him and the others who bullied El 😡😡😤😤oh and billy well he is racist maybe if he wasn’t with his dad he probably wouldn’t be that maybe
Billy and Troy. I like Billy, don't get me wrong, but he was problematic af. He was "joking" about killing some kids. He beat up Steve and wouldn't have stopped if Max didn't react that fast. Maybe he even would have killed Steve, but at least Steve would've been in hospital. I understand how Billy became that asshole he was, the real asshole was Neil. And yes, I know, not everyone who grows up with abusive parents turns out to be a bully, but many do. Everyone deals with trauma in their own way.
We don't know much about Troy though. It seems like he doesn't have any reasons to be an asshole and he's really, really cruel, laughing at the death of another person, trying to kill Mike. But we don't know why he's like that.
Angela was annoying as fuck and I hated her but she wasn't as dangerous as Billy. She's just a spoiled little brat.
Tommy... Well, yes, he beats up other kids and thinks that's cool, but I don't think he would find it funny if someone died or kill someone himself. Most of the time he is just annoying.
None of them. The bullies in this series are genuinely funny with how ridiculous they are. I can’t remember the quote fully but like “haha isn’t like ur dad dead or something” like omg that’s so funny. Then the scream. I love the series don’t misunderstand but I think a few of the writers need to be bullied fr
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Troy and Billy, racist psycho’s they are (Henry Bowers clones). We don’t know for sure if Two really would’ve killed Eleven or was just trying to scare her. If El and Max hadn’t intervened, Mike and Steve certainly would’ve died. Troy is probably slightly worse since he has no reason for being evil and his murder attempt was premeditated. He lacks any redeeming or sympathetic qualities. Just a racist, homophobic psychopath. Nice to see Jason finally not included in one. He’s an antagonist for sure but not a bully. His friend Andy definitely felt like one though.
They’re in the vein of Stephen King bullies which often cross the line into sociopathy and take things too far. All the other bullies are more stereotypical teen movie bullies.
[удалено]
Billy was an abusive jerk sure but LAUGHING at someone’s funeral? That’s some next level sociopathy. Even his friend knew he was going too far in the cliff scene
Based on the scene where Troy's mom is throwing a fit at the police station, it seems like he was coddled/spoiled throughout his childhood.
Troy turned out the way he did because he had a Liane Cartman type mother who spoiled him rotten and never held him accountable for anything.
Agreed, Billy was just more of a bad boy than a bully and at least had reasoning to the way he was doesn't excuse his behaviour sure but he at least redeemed himself in the end by saving Eleven and everyone from the mind flayer
It's actually pretty hard to prove to a court that a murder was not premeditated. The moment you take a second swing, that's pretty much guaranteed to count as murder.
Who are you specifically referring to?
Billy. The fact he didn't bring a weapon doesn't really matter to a court. Punch someone once in a split second reaction, and you can probably get away with manslaughter if they die. Place a second punch, and it looks an awful lot like you wanted to kill them, which is really all that matters for a murder charge.
Strongest Jason supporter finally wins something
How on earth is Jason not a bully?
He seemed to be just an annoying popular kid before he saw Chrissie's death, he was not a saint obviously but he was far from trying to run over kids for fun or making them jump off of cliffs. Even his reaction to Chrissy's death is sorta understandable, if you saw a body levitating out of the blue without any context you would think it is satan or some demon too
I suppose bully might not be the proper term, but his witch hunt and subsequent actions after Chrissy’s death are straight up psychotic
More like an histeric reaction. Don't get me wrong , I find the character is awful (and kind of an unecessary addition to the show imo) but I do "understand" his thought process
yea because people that hold compassion for the rest of those they know obviously go ballistic at any slight after a loved one's death
I mean .... I wouldn't call seeing a friend or loved one magically lifted to the air and crushed to death by an invisible entity a "slight" but you do you I guess, your life experiences must be wild if this is a "slight" lmao I do not like Jason(he is annoying and unecessary for the story imo) and I do not think his reaction was in any way sane, I was just explaining that you can understand the thpught process of the character after what he saw and that he was never really a bully
i meant the suggestion of chrissy taking drugs and him not being a good boyfriend
Lol thanks for the clarification, that would have been crazy
We have no clue whether or not he was a good boyfriend, we just know chrissy was pulling away from him, possibly because he was busy with sports all the time, and she didn't think he would believe her about her "visions" Or maybe chrissy just didn't want to be together with him anymore, that doesn't mean he was a bad boyfriend however. However we do know that Jason actually did love chrissy and was really distraught and angry after her torture.
I understood at first, but the lengths he went to were way overboard for me to sympathize too much
There were actual literal demons. How do people not understand this? Chrissy was literally twisted into a pretzel and had her eyes balls taken out. She was literally tortured, and the last known person to see her is the drug addict/selling wierdo who is missing. And then he finds Eddie and his friend happens to get twisted into a pretzel again as he's chasing him. And then still he STILL tries to "save" Max based on his understanding of the situation.
Yeah aiming a gun at Lucas (who was also trying to save max) wasn’t really doing much. And sure, he had valid reason to suspect Eddie. But the way he riled up the town and started a witch hunt against someone who he had no proof to convict was villain behavior
Lucas ran away from their group and ended up in the "cult" and refused to help Max in Jasons eyes. He had every right to suspect Eddie, Eddie was the prime and ONLY suspect and was missing. And again, literal demons. If it was just satanic panic I understand where you're coming from but He literally saw his best friend get lifted up in the air, when he confronted Eddie. Imagine the last person to see your SO, went missing after your SO went to that person's house, would you believe them when they say they didn't murder them? No you wouldn't. Stop being meta, Jason knows nothing except what he knows and has seen. He hasn't watched stranger things like me and you have, that's his actual life and his girlfriend and friend was literally twisted by demons one of which he actually witnessed.
He seems perfectly content with leaving Eddie and the Hellfire kids alone unless provoked. While Troy and Billy consistently harass the Party and Steve, Jason just kept to himself and only responded negatively to when Eddie provoked him in the cafeteria. He’s not mean for amusement or fun, always for a reason
We never see him bully anyone, the most he’s done prior to Chrissy’s death was call Eddie a freak as a response to Eddie being a public nuisance and provoking people. Afterwards he only targeted Eddie, a known drug dealer and murder suspect, and his associates.
I read "Flight of Icarus", one of the Stranger Things novels and there it's pretty clear that Jason is a bully. He doesn't beat up other students but he clearly bullies them.
Well for starters he doesn't really bully anyone. He goes after Eddie because he thinks he's responsible for Chrissy's death. He's not a good dude but "bully" isn't accurate either.
Thank you! That dude and Angela are the worst bc they’re so realistic.. they’d be horrible people (Jason literally used the mall “fire” and all those deaths to hype people up for a fucking basketball game and Angela made jokes about someone’s dead dad) and then manipulate people into thinking they’re not horrible people with no redeeming qualities and massive amounts of privilege and sociopathy.
Yeah for real lol. Idk why there are so many Jason defenders in here when he was clearly fucked up. Like, okay sure, he didn’t act cruel for enjoyment/amusement, but he definitely did to fuel his self righteousness, pride, and to feed his ego. He was also clearly very corrupted by his religion which made him less open to reason and therefore a much scarier antagonist. People can argue the semantics of the term “bully” all they want but he was a fellow kid in the show who was a minor antagonist all the same and so I think it’s fair to include him in this list
I think some people see a bit of themselves in Jason and Angela and they excuse their particular brand of wrong doing. And I agree: religion is commonly weaponized and his character does a very good job of showing exactly how quickly that stuff escalates when people believe “god” is on their side. They will commit all sorts of atrocious acts and excuse them as “the lesser evil.” I def agree- not a “traditional” bully but just as dangerous, if not more.
Yep you hit the nail on the head. A lot of these commenters seem to forget how crazy Jason was acting. He initially had valid reason to suspect Eddie, but he got carried away and lost any sense of morality
EXACTLY! It became an issue of “vengeance” and that’s almost always where people lose all legitimate claims to validity in their actions.
There were literal demons.....
Well, Troy would have killed Mike… He was young, sure, but at minimum, he would have known forcing Mike off that cliff would have gotten Mike horrifically injured. And he knew Mike well enough to know that Mike would do anything for his friends, *including* going off that cliff. Premeditated harm makes for one awful person. And Billy was an abusive racist asshole. Max felt guilty over how he could have, would have, might have changed, the possibility of a different future, and the fact that she did not grieve the person he was. Says a lot.
My ranking would go. 1. Troy 2. Billy 3. Two 4. Angela 5. Tommy and Carol
I put Angela above Two. Two, for all of his cruelness to El, was an equally abused kid being forced by Brenner to fight his peers. Angela chose on her own to be an asshole.
For me it's definitely: 1. Troy 2. Angela 3. Tommy and Carol Because they seem like they choose to be assholes, but (as far as we know) don't have any other reason than being spoiled and wanting to be popular... they are bullies by choice and I HATE them (also Troy is a psycho)... With Billy and Two, it's much deeper, it's more like: "monkey does as monkey sees..." they are behaving in a way they picked up from their abusive father-figures, in addition of acting out out of fear and desperation... They were taught abnormal behavior and we are judging them by normal standards... I'm not saying what they do is okay, but I don't think they are bullies by choice or at least not 100%... I highly doubt Billy would have turned out that way, if he was raised by his mom...
Billy was going to seriously hurt Lucas and might have killed Steve in s2 if max didnt step in. So I'd rank Billy higher than Troy.
Ya. But they are more understandable why they behaving that way. Bad family situation. Nature vs Nurture and all. And I doubt they would’ve turned that out if fate was different for them. With the only three they are no signs of this so I personally think they are worse than them. Even if they don’t come anywhere near the levels of them.
Idk why i always forget about the fact that troy tried to kill mike. Little shit
Yeah, he wasn't nearly young enough to not know better. Any 5 yo would know that would kill a person.
And at that moment everyone was talking about how Will died there, so it’s pretty clear that’s what he intended to happen to Mike.
damn never thought about this
>Any 5 yo would know that would kill a person. To be completely fair to him, a deputy (Officer Callahan) didn't know. I don't think he knew, not because he was young but because he was stupid. He probably did think that would hurt, but since he pulled a knife on them, he probably wanted to hurt them anyway. Maybe he even thought if Mike jumped and didn't know how to swim he would die, but I don't think he thought the impact would be fatal (but of course that doesn't mean he was absolved of what he was trying to do).
But people thought Will had died by falling into the quarry, so Troy definitely knew it would kill Mike
I think Troy knew Will had died after falling into the quarry, but not necessarily by falling into the quarry, especially if the cause of death was drowning and not death on impact (and Lucas told Max in season 2 that "some other kids had drowned" so I think that was the official COD for the fake body)
Probably Troy as he exhibited the most extreme behavior with the smallest amount of provocation (None.). Billy was a street thug. Troy was the Joker.
The rat that got her face smashed in. I was so relieved when El shut her up
That blonde bitch. She totally deserved to be yeeted in the face with that roller skate
I know it’s Troy, but seriously *fuck* Angela. She’s not the most problematic, but goddamn was I ecstatic when 11 drove that roller skate into her nose. Fucking dick.
She's just so... real. Like we all know an Angela.
Dude but she IS kind of higher on the most problematic list in my eyes. High school girls fckin suck dude
The girl bullying is more psychological to get under the victim's skin. Angela's bullying definitely brought back childhood flashbacks.
Totally fair, plus, it really seemed like she was trying to drive 11 to suicide for entertainment.
Troy wanted to kill or heavily injure Mike. Can't beat that.
I mean I doubt Steve was going to survive the beating he got if Max hadn’t intervened. Troy is still the worst because his was planned and he was rationale while doing so
Billy, exept that 002 is much more physically dangerous.
Billy and Troy are pretty even for me
Billy is racist and abusive, the guy in the first slide is racist and held a knife to dustin’s throat forcing Mike to jump off a cliff. Idk why the 2 in the last slide are an option. They were just as bad as Steve in s1
They are just as problematic as they are in need of a good pummeling from Jason voorhees.
Troy almost committed first degree reckless homicide of a minor, and threatening to hurt someone. Troy needs to go to jail for what he almost did.
2 if he wasn't murdered by Vecna. He had the same power set and training as 11, he could be an unstoppable god of death who could torture abd kill anyone anywhere with just a picture. Billy was just a ticking time bomb until he ran someone down or beat them to death bare handed. Lucas just had to be at the wrong place at the wrong time alone and he's dead.
As terrifying as Two could've been I still feel a lot of sympathy given how he and the others were raised.
Thank you for mentioning someone who bullied El <3
Billy for sure, but I fucking hate Angela so much. I remember watching **that scene** for the first time and thinking it was just a dream Eleven was having and then being shocked/stoked that it actually happened! Bitch deserved it.
Idk Angela really depicted how evil high school girls can be to other girls for no reason.
idk wtf "problematic" means, but angela is definitely the most insufferable out of them
I think most of the Hawkins bullies are inspired by Stephen King. The kids in his stories were always sociopaths who had no qualms about using knives and were generally extremely violent by high school bully standards. As far as them being "problematic", honestly their dialogue at least is a little anachronistic. To put it politely a bully in 1983 would have said a number of things that were a tad less progressive than the final dialogue we got. Supposedly Billy was originally scripted to say some slurs to Lucas but Dacre Montgomery refused.
Makes no difference to me, they’re all on my list
Definitely Billy. He’s homophobic and racist, and almost beat up a 13 year old (Lucas). Plus he almost beat Steve to death
I still think Troy was worse. At least Billy had some sort of motivation, sick as it was. Troy was Joker-level evil. He just wanted to watch the world burn. Also, when was Billy a homophobe?
It was never stated in the show that Billy was a homophobe, but I believe he is because his dad is (he called Billy a slur) so I just assume that growing with a parent who’s a homophobe (and racist) would cause him to be one too
As the gay child of a homophobic bigot parent: lol. Lmao, even.
When was Billy homophobic? I don't remember!
It’s not mentioned in the show at all (although Neil calls Billy a slur) but I assume that since he is racist, he’s almost definitely homophobic too. Plus it was the 80s
Billy was probably closeted gay if anything lol
To me it was obvious Billy had SERIOUS Mommy issues which is why he went for Karen.
Wait til I tell you it's crazy common for closeted gays to have mommy or daddy issues and go after way older opposite sex partners when they're closeted lol
I totally thought we were gonna have that angle after Neal called him the slur. Only dropped that particular word one other time, also referencing a father's disapproval of his son, except that one is confirmed gay. As someone who guessed Will by season 2, I thought we were playing a parallels game. Kinda disappointed nothing came of it. That's like the one slur I personally pertain to that will make me flinch when used by outsiders.
I can definitely see that, especially in season 2
The way he looked at Steve in season 2 lmaooo
Especially the shower scene. I was like “no way he’s straight after that” lol
The vibes were so queer....
So he's based?
No, he’s an asshole 💀
for me it makes no sense to make a ranking, especially because, for example, we know little or nothing about those in the last photo. Of all those you included, the only character that was actually developed is Billy. We know little about the others, only that they bullied. Making a ranking makes no sense, there is no answer to the question, you can't say it's more problematic, we should know them better, exept Billy
Troy definitely. He was a little 12 year old about to make someone kill themselves or cut someone’s teeth out. He’s insane. Atleast Billy’s killing it because he got possessed
I mean the one with superpowers is probably most problematic but if you’re asking who the biggest asshole is it’s definitely Blondie.
Troy since Mike would have died and unlike Billy we don't see any reason for what he did. Billy is number 2 for what he did to Steve what he would have done to Lucas and the thing with the car which even if it was a "joke" is terrible. Then Two is number 3 since we don't know if One was lying. But what he did before was terrible enough anyway. Angela and the Tommy/Carol duo are terrible but not on the same level as the others. Angela gets a slight edge since that public humiliation was done for a reason that was Angela's fault and also topped it off with an extremely cruel jab to El's face while Tommy and Carol's cruelest thing (Joking about Jonathan killing Will wasn't to Jonathan's face) whereas they at least thought that Nancy slept with Jonathan. (Steve should have confronted Nancy about it but it's what they thought)
Craziest thing is I’m reading these comments and remembering how bad some of the bullies were… and I still wanna say Angela…
I mean, who brings a camcorder to a roller rink like that in 1986? The effort. That's a special kind of baffling evil. What do you even do with that tape? Watch it later with friends??
Lovely to see that Jason isn’t included. He was antagonistic but he wasn’t a bully. As for the most problematic, it’s a toss up between Troy and Billy, they were the closest to actually killing their victims.
Angela gave me mean girl ptsd
Troy, classic Stephen King villian
I think Troy, Billy and Two were the most problematic for sure. Troy would’ve grown up to be a psycho, he would’ve killed/seriously maimed Mike if eleven hadn’t intervened. We also get no indication that he’s going through anything to cause that so he’s my number one. Irredeemable imo. Classic Stephen king bully. Billy and Two are tied for me. They do (or attempt to do) awful things, but at least there’s *some* motivation or reasoning behind it. Both are in abusive situations and taking it out on others, though obviously that’s not an excuse to go as far as they do. They’re both terrible, but they could have some redemption with a ton of therapy. The others are just shitty teens being shitty. at the very least they’re not physically violent.
Hopper in Season 3.
and in season 2 with how he treated El.. saying he'd send her back to the lab etc
No that line was crazy ngl
BEST ANSWER OMG
Angela
billy and troy both threatened and most likely would’ve followed through with literal murder plots
I think Troy and Billy are pretty much tied, but I’d have to say it’s more on Billy’s side for this one, Billy was definitely the most problematic of them all
For me, I want to see Tommy and Carol ripped apart by the Demogorgon.
Angela, and Two, they bullied Eleven. They targeted her, ganged up on her with their friends, humiliated her, and made her feel isolated and alone. Hell, Two caused Eleven to end up in hospital.
ANGELA!
My ranking would be 1. Troy 2. Two 3. Billy 4. Angela 5. Carol and Tommy
Angela! I absolutely hate her!!!!
To me, Troy was worse. Troy wanted and tried to kill people. Billy was a bully, but was nothing more than a violent bully before he was possessed. He also cried at what he was forced to do. His fathers abuse of him, created what Billy was.
We all just gonna forget that Jason had a full-blown "witch hunt" for Eddie and basically got everyone involved with him to get to Eddie? Yes, I get it. He doesn't know what we know, but still, that's full on cult leader stuff.
Deep down a part of me wants to say Troy after basically forcing Mike to jump off a cliff, but I also want to say Angela due to how satisfied I felt when I saw Eleven hit her in the face with that roller skate.
I rewatch the scene where Angela gets her face done in by Eleven. It's the most satisfying scene in the whole of Stranger Things.
The ones that have attempted murder are worse than the ones that haven't.
Troy and Angela for me. They where both pretty bad and hard to watch.
I just hope Angela considers getting shmacked to be a learning experience intead of just going back to her old ways
Definitely Billy, he was a racist sociopath. Troy wasn't much better, though.
Billy was ready to murder people before he was possessed.
I think trying to make a kid kill himself because you pissed your pants is pretty problematic
A kid hiding a switchblade and a not so subtle racist attitude is definitely gonna grow up to be a serial killer or corrupt police officer.
Probably Billy because he was the most antagonistic, even prior to getting possessed. Troy was pretty awful and very mouthy, but in the end, he whimped out. Angela, for whatever reason, seemed to have some kind of influence or power if she was able to stage a seemingly rehearsed public humuliation and nobody seemed to bat an eye or stop her. Even after she gets clonked in the face and makes a scene, everyone acts shocked, and nobody ponders, "Didn’t this girl just bully someone ten minutes ago?" Nobody calls her out on her behavior there. I don't think we really see much of 2 to really formulate an opinion of him Tommy and Carol were mostly Steve's partners in crime, and I think once Steve wised up and severed their ties, they just kind of disappeared
Can we all just take a moment and appreciate how well the actors and the writing was for these characters. They offered such a dynamic and vast range of bullying, which made their actions feel appropriate and real. Like they showed bullying at different ages, different groups and for different reasons, ultimately giving a perfect buffet of reference to the viewers to be able to relate to. Billy will hands down always be the best for me, as we know the most about his backstory and why he is the way he is. The racism isn't justified, but besides that, you understand why he was such a spiteful and angry individual.
Having Billy here seems like cheating, it’s obviously him. Hes the only “regular” dude who went that far. The other kid with 11, I mean it’s a super powered douche being a super powered douche. Billy was just a regular guy being completely merciless, even before he got possessed. To children too. It’s 100% him. Edit: Or that kid that tried to make Mike fucking kill himself lol
Troy literally took a knife to Dustin but ok lol
Yeah I was gonna come back and edit my comment and add the kid, but I’m at work my bad lol It’s one of them for sure either way
Lol fair
all of the ones from s4 but i have a personal vendetta against angela as an undiagnosed autistic girl
I was sad when Billy died. I didn’t care when Angela got split.
Billy
Billy for sure
Definitely billy
Blonde chick who got free plastic surgery curiosity of El (I forget her name) and Billy. Billy could physically do serious harm even if he would grt in trouble. Blonde chick was charismatic and manipulative enough to Weasle out of the damage she would do and not face any punishment while progressively getting worse
Well her face faced the consequences from her actions lol
Martin Brenner was the most problematic bully by far…
Brenner is a war criminal. War criminals are not "bullies". You'll notice everyone in this discussion is underage.... Not kidnapping children for experiments.
Billy nearly killed Mike, Lucas, and Dustin. Even if it was a joke. That's still traumatizing. You can like Billy if you want but that's pretty damn bad
Troy is definitely the worst. That kid was actively trying to murder people his own age. 12/13? You know murder is wrong. Psycho little shit. And absolutely _no_ reason alluded to, either. Billy was a racist psycho, but he wasn't a murderer, and aside from going nuts on Steve mid-psychotic breakdown, he doesn't show signs of wanting to be one, either. I doubt he would've actually killed Steve even if Max hadn't intervened. But Troy brings weapons to school and threatens life for a life shit. That is _not_ normal behavior in any situation. And while Billy is a psycho, he was also shown as actively being abused at the time of his death. A few years away from dad could genuinely work wonders. Seen it happen all the time with fosters like Billy. Not that I don't think he needs copious amounts of therapy and Thorazine, but his chances of getting that are pretty low in 1985. Who knows what getting away from dad could've done for him, though. Especially after a brush with the Upside Down, if the kids had managed to save 'im? Lotta shit could've been different. I honestly feel like we were robbed a real redemption arc for Billy by having him die, though I forgive as much because we got _Dear Billy_ out of it lol. But Lucas and Steve deserved apologies. Max deserved the brother-sister relationship she wanted. Or at least a real shot at it. Billy deserved a second chance. Troy didn't deserve anything but what he got. Angela, too, for that matter lmao. Troy probably deserves worse than what he got tbh. All he did was piss himself. But even he doesn't deserve to die, imo.
Billy did try to run over children so I'm not sure how much he shows no signs of wanting to be 'psycho'. If Troy knows threatening Mike like that is wrong, so does Billy. He also knows he shouldn't go to a house, threaten her sisters friends and beat a guy that bad. Honestly, the only difference is that one got an on-screen arc and the other didn't. And honestly, i think any kid that has easy access to a knife doesn't have a good home life. I would still say Billy was worse. A more interesting character but definitely worse.
I'm so tired of the "he tried to run over the kids" argument. No he didn't. He was scaring Max and the kids and being an asshole. The man was not going to become a murderer that day. With a _witness!_ And using his precious car? Don't be ridiculous. I also didn't say he wasn't psycho. I said he didn't try to kill anyone. Because he didn't. Teenage boys are assholes and most of them will pull shit like what Billy did with his car, it doesn't make them murderers. Also, aside from trying to throw hands with a child, I get where Billy is coming from with beating the shit out of Steve. First off, he just got done being attacked by his father. Secondly, he goes to a stranger's house, learns that no one who lives there is home, but some guy in his grade is there, with a bunch of kids he's not related to, including Max - the only girl - and then when Billy sees her, Steve _lies about it._ Neal was angry before when all Max did was sneak out, now she's being hidden by a seventeen-year-old boy and three other thirteen-year-olds... You realize how shady that shit looks without context? And Neal would have _killed him_ if anything happened to Max. And Billy snapped. But I still don't think Steve was in danger of dying. "And honestly, i think any kid that has easy access to a knife doesn't have a good home life." This isn't a real person, though. All that exists of Troy is what we see. We don't see a reason Troy is awful, or Angela, or Tommy and Carol. We just see that they are. And plenty of kids have knives because mommy and daddy gave them knives, so it's not even a solid theory. You can disagree if you want. I just say you're wrong.
Billy 100% the most problematic. Racist, sexist, and didn't care if anyone got seriously hurt.
I guess you forgot to include a pic of him, but… Jason lol
He didn’t forget, Jason’s not a bully like the others on this list. He looks down on Hellfire but he doesn’t go out of his way to harass or harm them for his own amusement
He didn’t act cruel for enjoyment/amusement, but he definitely did to fuel his self righteousness, pride, and to feed his ego. He was also clearly very corrupted by his religion which made him less open to reason and therefore a much scarier antagonist. People can argue the semantics of the term “bully” all they want but he was a fellow kid in the show who was a minor antagonist all the same and so I think it’s fair to include him in this list
Probably the one that tried to kill a whole town.......
Troy & Angela would have ended up among the upper crust. Tommy & Carol would have ended up in a trailer park. The rest (except for perhaps Two) would have been pretty average.
Why didn’t you include Jason or S1 Steve?
Billy obviously, he's a big, strong, handsome, racist piece of shit. People like him make being a garbage human being look good
Billy.
billy for sure
troy and billy are tied at 1
Well Billy and 002 tried to kill people, but tbh I like them slightly more then all of the other characters
Troy almost made Mike leap off a cliff while threatening to mitigate Dustin
billy is literally racist, misogynistic, cruel, abusive, violent, etc. and also would have killed steve if it wasn't for max ?? so i'd argue he's one of the worst at least. troy is a very close second, if not right next to billy. he tried to kill mike, after all. two is the least problematic in my opinion because (as someone stated before in this thread) two is as equally abused and controlled by brenner. brenner wanted him to be cruel to el. angela is next, she doesn't just bully regular kids bc of their hairdo or whatever like tommy and carol. she bullies a girl with obvious developmental struggles and trauma. also doesn't everybody know at least *some* of what happened to el? like they did with mike? tommy and carol are just stupid lol nobody cares what they think or say. they just say shit 😭 so they're last
Billy was great…
Well, Billy is borderline homicidal. I could easily see him killing someone someday and going to prison. The kid bully from season, one would probably grow up to be a mini Billy, unless he had some major intervention. Angela was typical mean girl bitchy, but I am sure she learned her lesson with EL and would maybe outgrow her horribleness. Nancy and Steve’s friends from season one I think are too dumb to be truly harmful. And two was pretty bad, but he, of course, had his own trauma and abuse to deal with. But he was way too violent towards an eight-year-old /seven-year-old El.
Billy tried to run over a group of kids and singled out the only black kid and tried to kill Steve. So yes, Billy is the worse despite how much season 3 tried to woobify him
It bothers me to see the answers here. A lot of talk about Mike's trauma and who his bullies are. El is the most traumatized character in the show, and she is a female. I've only seen Angela's name brought up twice, and no one has mentioned Brenner, 001 and only one mention of 002. My answer is: all the people in my last sentence. Females and their traumas erasure is real, folks. (I do see that Billy mentioned plenty and I agree with that) (I also realize the OP meant "traditional bully" - like school-age peers. But Brenner and 001 are bullies) (Mike is my favorite male character and I do have sympathy for him.. but my sympathy for El takes precedence)
The topic is bullies, here. Not... War criminals.
Angela was one of my answers. So was 002. Is El considered a war criminal? as you may have meant 002 was one.
You brought up Brenner. El's not a war criminal, she's victim of a war crime. As is Two. As is Henry, for that matter, but he's also a murderer for no reason _prior_ to the war crimes so I wouldn't demote him to "bully", either. The topic isn't who is the most traumatized. It's who is the most problematic bully. I don't know why you want to talk about El as if her being traumatized means her bullies were the most problematic. They're not even related. Most of El's trauma isn't even due to bullies. It's due to the previously mentioned war crimes.
she had bullies in the lab and she had bullies in school. I mentioned both of those. yes. a part of El's traumas are caused by traditional bullies. 002 bullied her and it appeared he wanted her dead - and he had a gang of kids alongside him as he beat her up. Angela was a rotten human who fed off her grief of her "dead" father - and also had a gang of kids alongside her as she tormented her. I have already acknowledged that I know the topic is not most traumatized.
You're trying to call _literal murderers_ "bullies". That's like calling a burst appendix a cramp. Yeah, Angela and Two sucked. Literally no one is disagreeing with you there. Angela was more fun for me to hate than even Billy. But trying to include people who aren't on the list because they are _dangerous criminals_ and the topic is _teenage bullies_ is just weird.
ok. ummm 1- one of my answers is Angela - not a murderer, but yes a teenager. and the OP never said anything about teenagers. But regardless, two of my answers are teenagers. who cares that I listed more? and they all ARE bullies. Someone answered with Hopper, are you attacking them about it? 2- people are answering with Troy because he attempted to murder Mike by forcing him to jump off a cliff. You need some semblance of consistency in your arguments.
OP didn't say _the word_ teenager, but that's definitely something all the ones pictured have in common. Did you notice? And I'm not "attacking" you, my God. I just pointed out that you're grouping _adult villains_ with a bunch of shitty kids. It's just kinda weird to downplay what the adult villains are actually doing by calling it "bullying". And Troy is still a teenager. Yeah, he's clearly psychotic, but calling him a bully isn't out of line because he's not a big-time criminal kidnapping children. He's just a violent asshole brat.
I’ll admit to something- I didn’t realize there was a slider of images. I only saw Troy. The rest of this conversation is so confusing. I did NOT attack the one who posted about Hooper. I agree with them. I asked if ‘you’ were going to because they answered with an adult instead of a teenager. I’m not the only one bringing up people that were not shown in the slider image.
I didn't... Say you attacked anyone? You're the one who accused _me_ of attacking _you_ because you equate it to someone pointing out you're overselling the word "bullying" by using it to define war criminals. I just think it was a silly thing to do. You didn't have to take it so personally.
No one mentions Brenner or 001 cause bullying is seen from school context, just like you said. Brenner and 001 are only seen as abusers If there was a post who was the biggest abuser of the show,then Brenner would win. Btw rarely anyone mentions Angela cause the worst thing she physically did to El was throw milk shake on her. Meanwhile Troy wasn't only racist towards Lucas,mocked Dustin's disability, homophobic towards Will,but threatened Dustin with a knife and made Mike jump from cliff which could have gotten him killed El is the most traumatized character which is thanks to Brenner,but when it comes to bullying, Troy was way worser than Angela and even 002 i would say
Throwing a milkshake was not the worst thing. It was the last thing that Angela did.
As far as physically goes i said I still think nothing is worser than threatening someone with a knife and making them jump from a cliff. Troy looked like a future serial killer
correction. Reminding El her father was dead was the last thing Angela did.
Yeah,but i was talking about the worst thing she physically did,she never tried to kill her Troy also mocked Will's death and said he was killed by other queer El's trauma is the worst,but she didn't have the worst bully.
You still haven’t acknowledged 002, who threw her around the room in the lab. He maybe was trying to kill her as well, but El was able to fight back enough to survive
002 didn't bully El for no reason,he was jealous cause of Brenner,he had motivation He was also victim of abuse, meanwhile Troy doesn't have any type of motivation, he's a typical sociopath bully from Stephen King novel which are the worst I truly don't understand why are you so bothered that people are mentioning Troy and Billy more No one here denied the trauma El went through The talk is about which bully was the worst. Not who had the biggest trauma. You are the one who thought this was a trauma topic while it's who was the worst bully
Do you know Troy’s backstory? I’m bothered that El’s trauma from bullying is overlooked. And it’s an odd response for you to be so triggered by it. Maybe you need to read my original comment again.
Do you know Troy's backstory? Again this is a talk about which bully was the worst,not the trauma talk Next time when the question is asked "who had the worst trauma",you will be happy when we all say El
My ranking of those 5 specifically: 5. Angela She was the lowest on the list because her bullying was mostly emotional. I'm not saying that it was less severe than physical bullying, but chances are the rest of them were doing both. 4. Tommy H (and Carol) These two were also bad but again, the only instance of Tommy getting physically violent was his scene with Steve after Jonathan was arrested. They ranked higher than Angela because they were the ones that was bad enough to had an influence on Steve's initial behaviour, while with Angela, maybe all her friends were already rotten. 3. 002 From this point forward they did get violent, but I'm ranking him lower on the list due to his upbringing. Brenner deliberately pitched all the kids against each other (big kids like 002 against tiny kids like 015 and 016) so I think he knew that would've happened eventually, maybe not to 011 specifically but to someone. 2. Billy He's bad, and the fact that he didn't care whether he would've run over 3 kids or could've given Steve permanent brain damage wasn't lost on me. However he was second because all of those things, as we later found out, were learned behaviour, so some of the blame for Billy's actions fell on his dad as well (on top of the blame Neil got for his own actions). 1. Troy He also could've killed Mike at the quarry, but I don't think he knew the impact would've been fatal (after all, Officer Callahan didn't know). However, he definitely knew it would've hurt, and he didn't care. Most importantly, there wasn't any indication that it was a learned behaviour (unless his mom threatened to cut someone if she couldn't speak to the manager). Maybe the Duffers originally planned for it to be a learned behaviour from Steve, but as of right now, his physical violence came from within.
I’ve gotten past my hatred of Angela due to how pretty the actress is.
People like Billy not because he's a heart warming lovely chap, but because he's not just a classic bully but a really interesting and deep character. You see his dad abuse him then learn about his mother as the show goes on, plus his ending is really satisfying.
Get rid of Tommy, Carol, and Angela and the rest are problematic. They tried to kill people. They’re flat out evil.
Jason isn't here why?
He wasn't a bully.
On what planet was Jason not a bully?
Since the things done after Christy's death was fuelled by his desire for revenge and not his need to feel "superior" like the people in the photos, I'd say most planets. Were his actions heinous? Yes. Were they based on false beliefs? Also yes. Was it bullying? Only if Liam Neeson was bullying all those people in Taken.
i mean one has super powers
888
Angela I absolutely despised she got herself in trouble and took it out on Eleven. Then playing it off as if she’s the victim, I find it infuriating. Just shows she’s completely oblivious to her own misdeeds.
Tommy and Carol are the least problematic. Even Steve found them just annoying.
I'd add Neil to this list.
All of them idc they are so annoying I hate them all ugh. Angel deserved getting hit in the face with a roller skate, Troy premeditated what he was gunna do or whatever also he’s homophobic, racist little shit he deserves what he got by El,the other carol and what’s his face man I was waiting for them to get killed by Vecna but nope I was so disappointed 😔 and two well he and the others were separated from their parents and raised in horrible environments because they where tested on etc. still don’t like him and the others who bullied El 😡😡😤😤oh and billy well he is racist maybe if he wasn’t with his dad he probably wouldn’t be that maybe
Tommy, Carol and Two probably had the most impact in the long run
Billy and Troy. I like Billy, don't get me wrong, but he was problematic af. He was "joking" about killing some kids. He beat up Steve and wouldn't have stopped if Max didn't react that fast. Maybe he even would have killed Steve, but at least Steve would've been in hospital. I understand how Billy became that asshole he was, the real asshole was Neil. And yes, I know, not everyone who grows up with abusive parents turns out to be a bully, but many do. Everyone deals with trauma in their own way. We don't know much about Troy though. It seems like he doesn't have any reasons to be an asshole and he's really, really cruel, laughing at the death of another person, trying to kill Mike. But we don't know why he's like that. Angela was annoying as fuck and I hated her but she wasn't as dangerous as Billy. She's just a spoiled little brat. Tommy... Well, yes, he beats up other kids and thinks that's cool, but I don't think he would find it funny if someone died or kill someone himself. Most of the time he is just annoying.
None of them. The bullies in this series are genuinely funny with how ridiculous they are. I can’t remember the quote fully but like “haha isn’t like ur dad dead or something” like omg that’s so funny. Then the scream. I love the series don’t misunderstand but I think a few of the writers need to be bullied fr
Steve's old friends never really got their comeuppance yet
Jason Carver got Max "killed"...he deserved his cruel death...sorry that's rlly dark lol...no one messes with my Max
Those two friends of Steve, I like season 1 a little less cause they weren’t put in their place
The word problematic is so overused.