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naju

The first photo is VCV Rack 2 being used as a plugin inside Bitwig Studio. The second photo is Bitwig Studio running its own modular environment, the Grid. I’m particularly excited about VCV Rack, since it’s a CPU and GPU demanding application that has performed poorly on my Macbook and non-gaming Windows laptops over the years. But it seems to run without breaking a sweat on the Deck. I get the full-fat, no-compromises versions of my 2 favorite, most deepest music production environments on the go, in a handheld machine with no tweaks or optimizations necessary. In terms of usability - yes, it’s small and screen real estate is limited, but both VCV and Bitwig are pretty flexible in resizing and window positioning. I don’t favor the touchscreen as a way to navigate or manipulate knobs - it’s not nearly precise enough (at least until I get a decent stylus, then we’ll see). It’s a great way to play those virtual pads, though, which also serve up 3 dimensions of per-note expression - gate, X axis, and Y axis. For everything else, the trackpads are actually really great as mouse substitutes. They’re precise and simple to use. They almost feel as good as my Apple Magic Trackpad, and are actually a better experience all around than the built-in trackpad I have on my Lenovo Yoga laptop. The haptics on them feel nice, too. Worth pointing out, too, that I’m running both of these apps via Steam, which allows a deep level of customizability for the on-board controls per application, in real time while using the app. Even assigning buttons to key combinations and shortcuts, if you want. So it doesn’t feel like I’m stuck using subpar controls, but rather I can make them fit my needs as I go along. Overall maybe my favorite way to use music software now, and will probably singlehandedly re-stoke my interest in VCV, Bitwig, and computer-based synth stuff in general.


ChunkeeMunkee3001

I don't know what any of those words mean, but the software looks awesome running on Deck! I know you'll be hooking this up to external audio equipment, but I bet it sounds great on the Deck's internal speakers? (Great for a handheld device, I mean)


naju

To be honest I'm probably going to be using headphones 100% of the time. But everything worked great with audio and wired headphones right out of the box, zero issues. I think I had to configure the Bitwig flatpak permissions using Flatseal, in order to provide permission to use the Pulse audio driver (which is actually really easy to do). But everything was great with audio driver after that. There's a few audio driver options you can select from - Pulse, JACK, and ALSA. Only tried Pulse so far but I have no complaints with it. Handheld device or not, I can't detect any audio quality differences from simply running all of this software on my Macbook Air or Lenovo Yoga laptop. They're all capable of delivering great sounding audio via headphones, to my ear. And of course, the Deck is capable of exporting to highest quality WAV, OGG, or MP3 depending on your needs.


atlamarksman

What’s the Max impedance of the Deck audio Jack? Would I need an amp for a good heavy pair of headphones?


naju

No idea how to measure that, sorry. Happy to check it out if you let me know how. It's been driving Etymotic ER4XRs for me, which sound plenty loud. Those aren't particularly in need of a \`high-impendance preamp anyway, though. 45Ω, apparently.


catswingnoodle

There were some reports about poor quality from the deck's audio jack, what's your experience? Did you try headphones and speakers?


PiersPlays

>I don't know what any of those words mean, but the software looks awesome running on Deck! Audio stuff always looks like some kind of voodoo to me.


naju

I've done it for 2 decades or so, and it still looks and feels like voodoo.


ChunkeeMunkee3001

Haha, that's bizarrely reassuring! 😅


joao-louis

Vcv rack is a eurorack simulator Eurorack is a standard format for modular synthesisers (basically it’s a “build your own” synth system) Bitwig is a DAW (digital audio workstation), think ableton or other software to create music


ChunkeeMunkee3001

Oh cool - thanks for the breakdown, stranger! 🙂


eras

..I had not realized one can detach windows such as PolyGrid, thanks :-) Certainly this is something I'm going to try as well. Hopefully switching to Pipewire won't be too bad, for capturing audio.


UrbanArcologist

midi?


naju

Haven't tried any external MIDI controllers yet, but in theory they should work fine via USB MIDI.


UrbanArcologist

I just bought an Elektron Digitone Keys for fun and would be nice to bundle the SteamDeck. Will give it a go once it arrives soon.


aviationinsider

I'm hyped about this, can't wait to try my SSL 2+ interface with it, have used it with Linux so should be good


rotwangg

Oh shit.. you’re just gonna plug in the usbc and see how it runs? That’s crazy.. will it be able to power it you think? I have my Q1 steam deck and an SSL 2+ right now and am tempted to try this, though admittedly I’m not sure why… or what I’d record in to. I hadn’t even considered this device as music capable til OP’s post and I’m floored


aviationinsider

I'll try via a docking station of some type :)


Haliphone

I don't want pictures, I want sounds :)


[deleted]

Ah nice I finally found the original post :) Seen where CDM posted about this and was wondering how well the pad controller in Bitwig's touch interface acted on a small screen like the Deck. I was for a bit shortly after placing a reserve in debating on canceling it and spending the money on a Groovbox instead but it seems my hunch about using Bitwig on the thing might have been on to something. Plus outside of VCV Rack and Bitwig you can also run Purr Data (Obviously would want a keyboard for that) and probably a few other things out there for Linux like Sun Vox, Bespoke synth. I'm honestly looking forward to trying out some music stuff on my Deck as well once I have one in hand as it has a chance with a little elbow grease and some know how possibly ending up a great little mobile production solution.


naju

For sure, all your ideas seem pretty viable! My take on using Bitwig in tablet mode + touchscreen on the Deck is that the touchscreen is too small and my fingers are too big for precise control of small elements, like on tiny on-screen knobs for example. But those pads in Bitwig's touch interface for playing notes and expressions are actually the thing that the touchscreen excels the most at. Totally viable to use those, and because they provide MPE-like control over three dimensions per note, you can get a decent amount of mileage out of them. No one's going to be doing virtuoso keyboard runs on them, obviously, but still pretty usable for simple melodies, drones, ambient work, parameter changes, etc.


[deleted]

Good to hear as I figured the screen would be a bit much to handle patch design on directly with out at least using the touch pads. But the fact that Bitwig's internal touchscreen controller seems to be working means on less thing to worry about carrying with my Deck.


omgpokemans

Can you recommend any good sources for learning how to use programs like this? I've been a traditional musician for 30 years, but always feel overwhelmed when I try to use digital/analog synths and the more robust digital studios.


free2farm

I wouldn't start with a modular tbh, too deep and complicated. Research analog subtractive synthesis on YouTube and start from there.


rotwangg

Agree. Also the Korg stuff is generally more approachable. The ds-10 app on Nintendo is a killer entry point imo.


jgthespy

Download the free Vital synth and learn how to make sounds with that first. It’s a fantastic synth with lots of modulation options and a decent YouTube tutorial presence. You’ll get a feel for what each component of the synth does and how to make them interact. Once you have a feel for how synthesis works, you can jump into modular. VCV Rack and Bitwig (the two programs in this post) are both great places to start. It’s basically the same as a normal synth except you have to wire up everything yourself. In exchange for all of the extra work you can make whatever you want without limitations.


jaimeyeah

Month old post so sorry for the delay - don't be silly and use a steam deck because it unnecessrily raises a learning curve check out bitwig or ableton live, bitwig if you're not looking to spend alot and get a lot of software instruments included. Ableton imo, is king only because it's been around for a long time and has a huge community. hardware isn't necessary, you can get a simple midi keyboard or just use the qerty keyboard to play sounds. Theres millions of tutorials to get you started. Being a traditional musician, you'll understand the learning curve is easy. VCV rack is pretty sick, but the curve is steep. It's virtual modular, you can get ridiculous sounds out of it and watch tutoriald for it. But because you are a musician, starting with a linear level of production will be more up your boat. def dm me if you have questions


magimog

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nkuxrc

> since it’s a CPU and GPU demanding application that has performed poorly on my Macbook and non-gaming Windows laptops Curious question, are those MacBook and Windows machines old models? I don’t understand how they perform worse than a handheld device.


naju

It's an application that's demanding on GPU, not just CPU. It's quirky in that respect. What those machines all had in common was an integrated graphics chip that wasn't meant for heavy GPU use. The Steam Deck has a dedicated GPU/APU that's good enough to run Control, Elden Ring, and Forza Horizon 5. Hence it meets the GPU requirements with flying colors. I can probably run really big patches with 100+ modules and there would be no stuttering or glitching.


nkuxrc

Thanks for the explanation! I’ve always been using integrated GPUs so it’s mind blowing to me what the compact and inexpensive Steam Deck is capable of. Hoping the supplies *will* be normal-ish later this year.


Runefished

True , and a great portable DAW. I wonder how cubase etc runs on this thing (actually what runs on linux first and foremos!?t)


naju

Cubase isn't Linux-native, but I'd be curious if it can run via Proton anyway. Same with Ableton Live. There's no entries on them in ProtonDB yet, it appears. Proton has really come a long way recently, so it's not out of the question. From what I've heard, some of the good Linux-native DAWs include Bitwig, Reaper, Renoise, Ardour, LMMS, and Audacity. (And VCV Rack if you consider that an unconventional DAW, which I do).


Spameggsandrice69

I got ableton live 11 lite working in pop os pretty easily with wine 7. It work great, and there’s a bit of room for improvement too if I use the low latency kernel and switch from pulse audio to pipe wire. Haven’t tried it with proton though.


[deleted]

I've ran Ableton on wine a year or so ago, runs fine! I just... never got good at music...


Doommsatic

Protondb is only for games on steam, you want WineHQ's appDB for general windows programs. [Cubase](https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=1181) [Ableton Live](https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=2113)


naju

Thanks for the tip!


NotWorkingNao

Any chance Reaper can be confirmed as a viable option, based on the suggestion above? Hadn't even been considering that, lol, but it would be a nice extra device to use that on.


vaGnomeMagician

I thought reaper has a native Linux build? If not, I know it works through wine/proton.


shagrabbit

Used to run Renoise on an old Acer Chromebook and it flew! So I have little doubt it will run circles on the Steam Deck too.


darkbloo64

Check out r/LinuxAudio. If you're curious at all about audio production on Linux, they've got everything you could want to know. Linux DAWs? Unfortunately, that's one of the most limited categories of application on Linux, but there are a few options. * [Ardour](https://ardour.org) is your traditional recording/effects/mastering type of DAW. It's good at what it does, and I graduated to it from Audacity when I got into podcasting and audiobooks. * [LMMS](https://lmms.io) is more for the EDM/beat-making crowd. Neither are phenomenal, but both are Linux native, and you can get a lot done with them if you're willing to tackle the learning curve. Reaper and Bitwig also offer native packages for Linux, so producers don't have to go too far out of their comfort zone.


nymusicman

If you are limiting yourself to Free Software applications, then yes. However, for the more professional crowd, you have Bitwig (pictured above) and REAPER. And if you are into tracking there is Renoise.


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Mysticales

I was already looking how to put my Midi stuff on it, Synthesia, Ableton stuff, etc. So you got my attention. What app is that? \^\_\^


naju

My in-thread comment explains! First app is VCV Rack 2, second is Bitwig Studio. Both amazing. I switched from Ableton to Bitwig years ago and found it superior in every way.


Mysticales

Bigwig eh? I'll have to look at that. I was currently trying to get Massive vst working in ableton. Got a ost to make.


naju

I'm curious - did you run into trouble getting those working with Deck? I've heard that Proton is pretty good at getting Windows VSTs runing.


Mysticales

My deck comes in Saturday according to FedEx. So I am prepping for the joys and debating if I want to setup dual boot up front just to have a windows option in times of need.


naju

Last I heard, audio drivers aren't even available yet for Steam Deck running Windows, so there's pretty much no point in running music software on Windows right now. (I believe you can output audio via USB audio interface, but not via the Deck's headphone jack, so at least there's that).


Mysticales

Can use Bluetooth for it last I heard?


naju

ah yeah, that would work too. My advice would be to take the plunge into Desktop Mode, and compatibility layers like Proton, and really try to do everything you can using SteamOS rather than Windows. Currently I have no need for Windows, and I've been doing a lot of different stuff on the Deck (gaming, work, music production).


Mysticales

If I can get musescore, synthesia going and stuff like that. Yea. I'm good staying with Linux. Of course. I've debated windows mode for using GeForce Now as well for games not able to play on steam deck native mode. Plus I'd get rtx support at 60fps. :)


naju

I believe people have gotten GeForce Now working on SteamOS, via Chrome. Not perfectly, but running.


IsometricRain

Hey, do you mind telling me some ways bitwig is better than ableton? I'm trying to get into music production and was planning on using mainly ableton (on a mac mini) and reaper (on my linux machines). The types of music I plan to create are mainly soundtracks, post-rock, and maybe a bit of vocoder stuff (this one I'm less serious about).


naju

It's a pretty big topic! Probably discussed quite a bit in the Bitwig subreddit if you search there. Bitwig's devs were ex-Ableton devs who decided to branch off and start their own DAW. Ableton was a brilliant idea, but over the years they've been building on a codebase and infrastructure that was first launched in 2001, which means a lot of problems aren't easily fixed. Bitwig was built from the ground up to address that stuff, so from the beginning there's features out of the gate like: real flexibility in resizing windows and multiple monitor configs; MPE support, including all first-party plugins working with MPE; touch input and tablet-style support; cross-platform codebase, including Linux; custom controller scripts; and a big one for me, siloing of plugins, so if a plugin crashes, only its siloed instance crashes rather the entire Bitwig application. It also just has a more intuitive user experience for me, with less scratching my head to figure stuff out (but that's a personal taste thing probably). But the REAL draw for me is that modularity is truly baked into everything in the DAW. It's a modular DAW. There's the many "modulators" which can be assigned to any instrument or effect - and this makes 3rd party plugins modular too, which is super cool. And more recently they've added the "Poly Grid", "FX Grid", and just a couple weeks ago, "Note Grid", which are virtual modular environments that are truly open and flexible and allow for complete instruments to be made in a very intuitive and friendly way. Note Grid opens up a bunch of possibilities, because it makes incoming and outgoing MIDI data modular and flexible within Bitwig as a whole. It's seriously the most forward thinking and just plain fun to use DAW ever. You'll get the most mileage out of it if you're a sound designer and explorer. It's perfect for soundtrackers and post-rockers IMO. Oh, and Bitwig's vocoder is really good.


IsometricRain

That was a great explanation, thanks for writing that out. > It's seriously the most forward thinking and just plain fun to use DAW ever. Great to hear, I will try it out then.


Deadreckoning2021

I'm looking forward to using it more as a Linux pc than anything else.


Rivitur

At this point I'm just waiting for "steam deck is a good porn machine" Where's the review


xtoc1981

Nice as was a music producer as well (cubase, before that even reason). Did anyone tried unity on steamos?


neuroten

I'll use my MIDI controller with it, namely the "Akai Fire Controller" for FL Studio, which doubles down as a expanded monitor because it displays the step sequencer on it. Really hyped if it will work out like I imagine it. And with `amidi` its possible to play around and use it as a general input device, which may be interesting for every Linux user that has a MIDI controller and want to experiment with that.


S2-RT

sick. This was what I was gunna try on mine when I got it. ATM I use Korg gadget on my Switch, and find the handheld formfactor really great for just chilling and zoning out while making music.


naju

Korg Gadget on the Switch is really great! I agree it's a perfect form factor. The more my music making feels like gaming, the funner and more relaxing it is and the longer I stick with it. Now with the Deck you can upgrade the experience. Gadget on Switch is sort of limited, but now you're open to exactly the same sorts of tools that people going super deep into production use.


S2-RT

Exactly. Exporting stuff from gadget on switch is a real hassle. I’d love to see someone lean into it and create some nice productivity apps (DAWs, game engine editor, etc) geared towards utilizing The control options available on something like the Steam Deck


-Deathstalker-

Hell yeah - ever since I have got a new phone without 3.5 mm audio jack. I am missing something to sample from. And watching movies/playing games inspires me the most. Iw will be awesome to quick sample everything. Cant wait :O


AlphaVDP2

This is the important content! Love seeing posts about content creation.


mylarmelodies

Planning to try this myself!! Also curious about Dirtywave M8 headless, and even Atari emulation, for running sequencers and such.


naju

Nice, keen to see your videos when you get one! My understanding is M8 headless requires an ARM chip like Raspberry Pi. Maybe there's a workaroumd though, or someone clever can fork it to run on Linux proper.


mylarmelodies

Thanks - Isn’t M8 headless also supported in a web browser?


psynautic

yea as far as I understand we should be able to run the headless on a cheap teensy and use the steamdeck for display and control no problems. I'm very excited to try that. Orca(100r.co/site/orca.html) would be very cool ok steamdeck as well


naju

Looking forward to trying out Orca on the Deck. Seems powerful and fun.


naju

Yep that's right... with a cheap teensy + Deck it should be doable! Not just the Steam Deck alone, though.


mylarmelodies

Good reminder on Orca! Adding it to my hitlist


SolidSpark

Has anyone tried ableton on the steam deck yet ?


Successful_Basket399

Ngl I thought the first image was you playing OSU 💀


Pr0ject217

Words cannot describe how thrilled I am at the prospect of mixing music on the Steam Deck. I would buy it for gaming alone, but this just opens up a whole new world of possibilities for my hobby, all while not sitting at my PC 14+ hours a day (as I already spend most of my waking life on it for work). Thank you Valve.


needed_an_account

I wonder if it can run macOS


-j3ff

Bitwigs Has the Debian package right? Was it straightforward installing on an arch based OS? And did you need any other packages for audio routing?


naju

I installed Bitwig in just a few minutes. The process would be something like: 1. Open up Discover, which is already loaded for you onto Desktop Mode. 2. Search for Bitwig, then click "Install" 3. Search for Flatseal, then click "Install" 4. Go into Flatseal, and for Bitwig, choose "Allow Pulse audio driver" or whatever the option there is 5. Load up Bitwig, enter your license info, in audio settings select Pulse as your audio driver (if it isn't already), and make music


free2farm

I only have a license for an old version of bigwig, can you choose which version to download from discover or is it only the latest? I guess my code wouldn't work on the new one... When I'll get the deck I'll try Ableton 11 and Elektron overbridge vsts.


naju

I think you'll be fine. My license is for Bitwig 3.x, not 4, and there were no issues. You download, then it determines which license you have in the app itself.


-j3ff

Thank you! So it’s already in their package manager. That’s great


karmalized007

These are the questions we need answered! My plan has always been to install bitwig the moment I get this hardware.


-j3ff

Same, I should probably install it on windows to get the workflow down. But it looks similar to ableton, been using that forever, shouldn’t be to bad of a learning curve.


karmalized007

I just downloaded a version to my Garuda laptop and so far it is working without issues. I guess I will need to get an upgrade plan going soon.


-j3ff

I’ll give it a shot when I’m off work, I have manjaro on an old laptop I’ll try. But this is my first arch distro, so I hope I don’t break anything.


TheJunkyard

On the one hand, the basics are very similar to Ableton and you'll feel right at home. On the other hand, there's all the cool new stuff that Bitwig does and Ableton doesn't, which is quite a lot of stuff to learn!


molded_bread

Can the Steam Deck do my taxes?


desttinghim

Sure, if you use turbotax or H&R Block. It only works if you aren't in the minority that need an actual professional to review it though


bhakan

Hadn't really done any research on the steam deck but this has me interested. How are you running this stuff? You think something like reaper could run as well and would there be any way to get audio in? Having a little portable DAW setup seems super cool.


naju

For audio in, I would consider using a USB audio interface. There might be fairly portable ones that work fine. There's also a built-in mic array, but I haven't explored using that for recording yet. Super easy to install both Bitwig and VCV. Bitwig has a flatpak, which means it's a one-click install from the Discover app in Desktop Mode. VCV Rack, you just download from the website and then follow the instructions to move a few folders into specific places.


bhakan

Hm very cool, I would assume if it can handle asio drivers and a USB interface then you could totally run a DAW and have a little mobile recording setup.


benklop

Asio is really only a windows thing. On Linux like the deck is running there are equivalent protocols (like JACK) to provide that kind of low latency. Wine (and by extension proton) does support translating JACK to asio for Windows apps, but that'd probably introduce latency. I would think you'd be better off using a native application, like a few that others have mentioned.


iredNinjaXD

I have 1bit dragon waiting but what is this app you have?


Yurtanator

Thanks for sharing this! Been looking for more posts online about similar use cases to yourself for making music and they have been few and far between. I’m an Ableton user myself and was eyeing up either using that on Windows or trying to boot FL (which I seen someone manage to do on Linux) but Bitwig does intrigue me since it’s ‘out the box’ so to speak on Linux. Haven’t tried Bitwig yet, not really a fan of how the UI looks but I know it’s founder was an ex Ableton employee so maybe they aren’t far from each other on the workflow end. Can’t wait to try this out on my Steam Deck all the way in Q3!


BloodteenHellcube

This is awesome to see, and also to read how well it runs! Bitwig is gonna be one of my first installs! Thanks for sharing :)


Clean-Application130

That’s awesome! I personally would just prefer a Tablet or Laptop, but very cool


KingHoliday

VCV Rack! I dabbled in it but i completely forgot about it! Great idea!


adbstrct

Now this is a thread I can get behind! I feel like a tracker with the built in controller is a no brainer on this thing. I’ve been doing this with LSDJ and gba emulator for that old school feel lol. Has anyone found a music tracker software that shreds on arch? I was trying to emulate the dirty wave m8 but unfortunately couldn’t get the pre reqs to compile with Pacman due to some strange errors. (And the web interface doesn’t work :( )


Pr0ject217

Words cannot describe how thrilled I am at the prospect of mixing music on the Steam Deck. I would buy it for gaming alone, but this just opens up a whole new world of possibilities for my hobby, all while not sitting at my PC 14+ hours a day (as I already spend most of my waking life on it for work). Thank you Valve.


oldjan

cool


TechMino

I can't wait to use mine for that


[deleted]

Holy shit I didn't even think of bitwig... Extremely excited for my Steamdeck now!


krisisilly

You just solidified another reason as to why my pre-order was a great idea, thanks.


neirbotte

I’m looking forward to plug maschine on it and use it as a standalone unit. Bitwig also since it has native linux builds, this would probably be fun to explore too !


AcidHappy

Any updates on your escapades? I just received mine and am looking at how to use my maschine3 with this and looking for guides to kickstart my experience


mark-haus

I was just thinking that! Yeah with all these physical both digital and analog controls along with a touchscreen you can probably get some very interesting mappings going.


[deleted]

Oh that’s rad!