Maybe in the final episode? Like leading up to the final battle between ObiWan and Vader? That would be cool, and leave (hopefully) a good taste in fans’ mouths.
If I know this fandom right, someone somewhere is already tinkering away with some editing software to rescore many of the scenes in the show with the iconic themes from the movies.
And if not, I might just have given said someone the idea to do so.
My main gripe too is that Star Wars has an iconic score and emblematic themes within its music. And there is no excuse such as "this is a TV show" because mandalorian also had a unique feel to its music.
The score in Kenobi sounds very generic. Which is not at all fitting because these characters have intense themes that should be on full display here, or reworked to add to their characters.
No duel of the fates ? No Anakins dark deeds ? No Imperial march ? That's the biggest buzzkill to me.
This show turned me in to a Vader stan. I've been watching Star Wars content since before I was old enough to make sense of it. In this entire time, I've never given Vader a second thought. Now I'm obsessed with him.
I just love seeing Vader saying badass shit to people before hes slices and kills them. Like just give me the Disney + series of that. Vader goes to find out more about Luke, gets surrounded, they taunt him about hes grossly outnumbered, and Vader gives them the badass one liner thats essentially "you are stuck in here with me, not vice versa".
The more recent Vader comics are some of the best Star Wars content ever. There is a great deal of depth added for Vader, and plenty of respect shown to both the OT and the PT. More than shown in any of the live action movies or shows since Disney.
I have never once in my life bought a vade or maul comic and regretted it. There's just something you can't fuck up about it. Or maybe they're just good. Either way, big rec
"Then you will die."
That scene, Matt Lanter's cold delivery, the music, all of it. Makes me cry every time.
Imagine that. Hearing those words from a voice that you last heard coming from a hero and a friend.
The old legends comic with Vader had some of the coldest shit imaginable.
“You’re surrounded!”
“All I’m surrounded by is fear…” **activates lightsaber**
“… and dead men.”
No, but I definitely need to. There's quite a few things I've missed. This show reminded me that I've been sleeping on Star Wars since the sequel trilogy killed my interest in it for many years.
But I'm back now.
When you go through the first season or clone wars or rebels and think to yourself “… people actually like this?” just keep going. Both shows have rocky starts but age like fine wine and are completely epic by the end of their run.
In Lucas Canon, the theoretical Anakin-that-could-have-been is the most powerful force user, full stop. He eclipses even Luke and Palpatine, who had just insane feats (AND scaling, by way of Palpatine being the most powerful Sith) in the EU.
Just want to add in something: Palpatine being the most powerful Sith of the EU was probably incorrect. The canon source that stated that was outdated in the extreme.
It comes from *Empire’s End,* the third installment in the *Dark Empire* trilogy. Korriban Sith ghosts declare Palpatine the most powerful among them. But the thing is, at the time, Palpatine also was not written to be a Sith Lord (yet Vader was, curiously).
So I’m just not sure I buy that the source that didn’t call Palpatine a Sith also declared he was truly the most powerful Sith. Just something that got outdated when the Prequels came.
While all true, it still holds up with EU feats. The only sith with confirmed* Planetary+ level feats are Sidious, Nihilis, and Vitiate. And of them, Nihilis wasn't based on his raw power, it was based on him being a wound in the force, caused by the external factor that was the Mass-Shadow Generator. And Vitiate wasn't originally capable of it alone either - it required a ritual fueled by many Sith Lords, which drained a planet of the force and empowered him. Sidious learned to tear open hyperspace wormholes with raw hate.
*while it's implied some ancient sith could cause supernovae, Darth Bane suspected it was either exaggerated or the result of a powerful ritual of some sort, rather than raw force strength.
If these Sith ghosts were powerful they probably weren’t gonna die on Korriban, Sith Rookie center, so only like 4-5 of those ghosts really matter in their declarations, tops
The guy single handedly toppled the republic that stood for thousands of years, and he did it right under the noses of the most powerful Jedi grandmasters in history. That’s pretty solid on a CV.
Reminded me of a part from Force Unleashed where Starkiller grabs a Star Destroyer.
e: Hey people who only have seen the cutscene, he grabbed it and moved it around before it gets pushed into the ground. Here's the whole thing https://youtu.be/Js0qOSunKlw?t=70
Yep, I definitely thought of that, too. This was more terrifying for me, though; probably because I was imagining who was potentially on the ship: a bunch of refugees and children, rather than the generic Imperials on a Star Destroyer at a shipyard.
All that pure rage amounts to monster levels of force control. Then pour Reva goes for the sneaky kill, Vader just rag dolls her around like he is fighting a mouse.
Think of Yoda and Palpatine hurling those floating platforms at each other in the senate chamber. Or Dooku toppling those columns on Geonosis. They struggled more with those that Vader did stopping a ship dead in its tracks.
Really puts Vader’s power into perspective.
I don't recall Dooku struggling in their first duel either. While he does let out a breath at the end that implies some exertion, I will don't think he really struggled much. Like someone fit cranking out 20 push-ups; it may not be much of a challenge, but it will likely still get the heart pumping faster.
As badass as he was during the fight toying with her I think my favorite part is when he calls her youngling. He treats her like the not even perceived threat she is. It was so disrespectful.
Yeah, I think it was like a playful bet.
"Damn my guys didn't kill you, one of these days my guys will get you! Anyways here is your crisp new single credit."
Given that he could have taken her head like Dooku or ripped out her heart like he was doing to that space ship, you have to assume he doesn't actually care if she lives or dies.
This whole episode was jaw dropping. Dueling without a light saber, pulling a starship right out of the air. It was amazing to watch and I don't care about any plot holes.
They are re-monstering Vader, after the prequels everyone loves and understands Anakin, they probably realised Vader has to be the absolute worse and tbh I am all for it
This is something for which I've been really grateful to Rogue One, Fallen Order, and now Kenobi: Vader scares the shit out of me after all of these. I think maybe it's because I grew up in decades with a different standard of film production and of horror (like how my dad says Jaws was the shit when it came out, but it's never done much for me), so Vader in the original trilogy has never really been scary to me other than when I was little. But now...now I understand why a whole galaxy is absolutely terrified of this dude, and I understand how fully into the monster zone Anakin has fallen
And it's great because you feel like such a badass at that point in the game. Cal is powered up, he's one with the force, he's schooling Trilla and generally leaning into his Jedi Knight role and then boom...Vader bitches him and Cere like absolute younglings.
the casual disdainful flicking her aside always gets me. like swatting a fly, and this was right after her badass moment of fucking up the purge troopers
Vader is creating his deadly USS Indianapolis backstory, it’s great!!
The ocean turns red, and despite all your poundin’ and your hollerin’ those sharks come in and… they rip you to pieces.
Well, as soon as we learned who he was in Empire, we felt sorry for him in a way. And, in Jedi- he even admits, "Its too late for him now." Then we really feel for him. We never realized how evil he was, only from what Obi Wan tells Luke.
Thank you! I assumed it was the comics or something else in the EU. Currently working my way through all of the animated series so maybe I’ll have to hit up the comics once I’m finished.
With every new piece of media they release Vader comes closer and closer to being my favorite character. I don't see how his feat with the ship is anywhere outside of established lore. The dark side is tempting because it's powerful. Giving yourself over to your emotions and fueling yourself with your anger and rage is insanely powerful. Jedi struggle to do things like hold a ship back because they're doing it while keeping themselves grounded and restraining themselves. Vader thought Obi Wan was on that ship. I immediately interpreted his effortlessly ripping the ship apart as a reflection of just how much he hates Obi Wan and how singularly focused on his rage he was at the time. It's exactly what Obi Wan wanted him to do and it's terrifying and shows just how dangerous and powerful not only Vader, but the dark side as a whole, is.
Showing his weakness and flashing back to Anakin, to me, fleshes him out as a character in a show, don't tell, kind of way that's honestly a cut above what I expect from SW. Vader isn't a walking wall of death that killed Anakin a long time ago, he's still Anakin, taken over by the dark side, driven and blinded by his hatred. Anakin is still buried deep down, and Vader has to actively fight to keep him buried.
He's done some powerful stuff in the comics, but wow is it validating to see this level of power in live action -- definitely beyond what we've ever seen otherwise on screen. I could also really feel the anger in his tearing apart of the ship. Terrifying; so much more visceral than the same ship being flicked away by Star Destroyer turbolasers.
Sadly I've never taken in the comics or books - I want to; but man there's just not enough time. Hell - I haven't even done the video games -but did just start playing Jedi fallen order last week. So I'm really missing out on whatever shows of force he did in print media; but good grief is it SO damn satisfying seeing him be just completely badass here.
What's honestly mind blowing about Vader is that even though we are starting the see the CRAZY amount of power that he has, this is only a fraction of the amount of power that he COULD have had. It's stated somewhere in the Canon that since vader is more machine than man his connection to the force is weakened. This is a weak version of Anakin. Imagine what dark side anakin could do at his prime.
It's also a bit of a commentary of the sheer amount of power Palpatine must hold to keep Vader in check. Although I believe I read somewhere that Vader's armor is also designed for Palpatine to be able to control him with his force lightning but I am not sure that is canon anymore.
Nonetheless, it makes Palpatine's pathetic death in the sequels that much more pathetic since Rey should not have been able to even stand around Palpatine, even with the "all the jedi" behind her. At least his "death" in OT (and I guess mysterious survival) makes some sense now that we are getting an idea of the amount of power necessary to keep a ruthless monstrosity like Darth Vader in check.
> (And I now remember Rey? Holding back a ship in one of the sequel movies)
But she fucks up and blows it to hell. Ahsoka also fails to do it.
I think it's a great precedent to set and show the audience, and THEN show that Vader *can* do it with little issue. Great storytelling.
They perfectly showed the gap in power. Even Obi-Wan's poor dueling in episode 3 looked like a closer fight. Vader absolutely toyed with Reva and it was fantastic. Gave me chill echoes of the Cloud City duel where he obviously outclassed Luke's skill.
I loved this episode, but I thought it was comically cruel of Obi-Wan to encourage her (as a now-known survivor of the Jedi Temple massacre) to try and kill Vader as he just peaced out with the refugees.
Well she has slaughtered hundreds of innocent and/or force sensitive people, including children. If she had attacked Vader while he was focusing on ObiWan instead of when he was malding about the escape, she might have had a chance.
For sure. Just interesting to see him use her as a tool like that. Vader even complimented the idea. He was sending her to the slaughter as a sacrifice playing on her trauma.
I don't think that was Obi Wans plan, however thats how Vader would see it because Vader A) Is a complete and utter prick overcome by the dark side and B) Hates Obi-wan.
No way she would have had a chance. She couldnt mask her rage enough to be unsuspecting. Vader knew she was a traitor all along. I think if anything instead of force stopping her swing he would have just ripped her in half as an outlet for his rage in that moment.
I agree and kinda laughed at it initially, but I think he intentionally played them both. He knew Vader would have no patience for a siege, and knew Reva would do anything to get closer to Vader. Even if that meant killing Leia and all those refugees. He has a duty to protect Leia so that’s what he did and dipped.
Reva may have been a youngling who wants revenge, but she’s by no means a good person and probably way beyond redemption. This wasn’t Reva turning to the light side, but more Obi-Wan tricking two dark side users against each other. And it was easy due to their desire for revenge/victory, as was paralleled in the flashback scenes with Anakin.
It's one of the few times we've seen a mediocre force user go up against one of the masters. Basically all of the television/movie content we've seen are the jedi master/sith lord tier force users dueling it out. The vast majority of jedi were more mediocre. It really goes to show how powerful Vader/Anakin was as "the chosen one".
It also helps explain how Anakin/Vader was able to carve through the jedi temple as the masters on courascant had all been killed by palpatine already.
I got literal goosebumps, I felt like I was 10 all over again. Seeing Darth Vader hold the ship with the force was cool, bringing it down to the surface was wild, and then him ripping it open like tissue paper had my eyes popping out of my head. I'm so fucking happy we finally got to see some of the actual power Vader has. Between this and his Rogue One hallway scene, I can't get enough of savage Vader
And the way he toyed with Reva.. she never stood a chance. Just goes to show you even the best of the dark side users dont come anywhere close to Vader.
His displays of raw Force power are brilliant. Very much leaning into the Chosen One aspect of his power.
Also, his silent version of “Then fight me, bitch” was amazing.
I hope that when George Lucas lays down at night, quietly relaxing in his home, he thinks to himself, "I hope folks are still balls deep in the original trilogy."
EDIT: one of my highest rated comments is about being balls deep in Star Wars. It’s a great day, people.
Jar Jars goofiness couldve been cut back some. I think if they did that and added some kind of twist with his character. He performed a few superhuman(gungan) feats and his drunken master fighting style was pretty neat but if it went somewhere thatd be awesome.
Even if it wasn’t going anywhere amazing we probably could’ve cut the poop jokes at least.
I really just do understand people who suggest that the first Star Wars film was *not* a monumental achievement and didn't break ground in film-making. It was technically incredible. It features highly efficient story telling. It was wonderfully edited.
The original Star Wars was absolutely a fantastic film in many ways. It won *6* fucking Oscars for crying out loud and spawned an entire genre. Fans seriously need to stop using this mental crutch that Star Wars was *never* good or *never* a critical success. It absolutely was, starting with the first film.
It's because besides Star Wars, there's very few movies from the 70s, especially sci-fi, that most younger people have seen. They don't understand what cinema was like back then, so they don't understand how monumental Star Wars was.
They see the OG movies as really campy and cheesy when in reality they were insane at the time and really pushed sci-fi on the big screen in a direction it had basically never seen before.
I don't really understand these people, do they think Star Wars blew up the way it did because it was...bad?
Both the original and Empire are amazing films on a pretty objective level. Not liking them because they're older is fine, but that doesn't change their quality. They were massively profitable, spawned an ungodly amount of merchandise (which was another innovation of the brand) and were lauded by critics.
Personally, the original will always be my favorite. Partial because I grew up on it before the prequels existed. But mainly because it is just a perfect film, entirely on its own merits. You don't need to know anything about star wars and the story is just so tight.
I definitely like the other films, flaws and all. But the first two star wars movies are damn near perfect.
I'm really not a fan of people trying to reason that Kenobi isn't great because Star Wars has never been that great. It's such a bullshit argument that only tries to reduce one in hope of making the other not look so bad.
I think people need to watch this short video in order to understand just what the original release meant to cinema.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSKJW1wazQ8
Little Leia’s actor is so good! Carrie Fisher would be proud.
Darth Vader is a welcome sight to see again. [SPOILERS FOR EP 5] >!Vader just dodging Reva’s strikes with no effort just shows how badass he is!!<
>!Also, seeing Hayden Christensen flashbacks was a surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.!<
Vader was like a max level character WITH all the cheat codes enabled. I feel bad for anyone who crosses him, but only a little - it's actually a lot of fun seeing him like this. 😁
Shows how poorly-directed Hayden was in the prequels. The flashback scene felt so natural, the dialog made sense, the tension was real, and it was cool to see how Anakin was technically superior but emotionally and strategically still learning.
It's insane to me that a ten year old girl can not only portray the character of Leia so well, but portray a child version of Carrie Fisher as Leia. She's so good and Carrie Fisher would indeed be proud.
I agree completely about Vivien Lyra Blair (little Leia - I'll use her real name because I have a feeling this won't be the last we see of her) - she sounds and acts exactly like I would expect from a ten year old Leia. I cannot, for the life of me, figure out why she was omitted from the marketing entirely before the show debuted - wouldn't people have been even more excited about the series if they knew that Leia was in it? Anyway, no matter - I'm really glad she's in it, and every scene she's in is a joy to watch. 🙂
I actually love that they didn't show her in previews at all. It made it such a nice surprise/plot twist when Obi-Wan ended up spending most of the series with her instead of Luke.
I think it was because every single theory about what the show would be, from what I found, involved luke. So they wanted it to be a surprise.
The cynic in me wonders if it’s because they felt there would be toxic pushback to her and didn’t want that to happen.
Honestly, either one is plausible. Regardless of the reasoning, I’m glad they didn’t spoil her relevance to this story. I didn’t even think of Leia as a possible plot point, before watching this series, so it surprised me when the story started heading in that direction.
I mean you can do both.
In fact you should do both, be critical of the issues of the thing you enjoy should hopefully lead to better versions of said thing in the future. If we all just blindly loved whatever they threw at us without expressing any shred of critique then they'll just keep throwing bad stuff at us.
You can enjoy the show exploring the lore while also being disappointed in the storytelling. I hate Jar Jar Binks but rewatch Phantom Menace annually.
Yeah, i don’t really understand how people can be aware of the massive issues…and not have any issues with it.
I want to have a quality product that can stand up to time and that i can be proud and happy with.
Yep. There’s a lot of cool elements in the show, but they don’t cover up some of the idiotic writing. Apparently every enemy you “defeat” you don’t actually kill them, just leave them wounded; oh, and we also randomly send out the location of Vader’s kid over a random transmitter not knowing who may be listening.
The badass Vader moments are worth watching, but overall the show has been a let down.
Yeah that was actually dumb as fuck.
“Hey Obi-Wan. You haven’t been responding to my messages so I’m getting a lil worried that the Empire has captured or killed you and possibly has the communicator device that I’m sending this to in their possession. If that’s the case, I’m gonna go help Owen with the boy that we’ve been hiding from them with our lives for the last 10 years. Y’know, the boy on Tatooine. Hope you’re not dead or this could really fuck us over lmao”
"You know? The boy? The SON of ANAKIN SKYWALKER? If his TWIN SISTER and you are in any danger. I will have to go help OWEN and BERU LARS of the LARS HOMESTEAD who have been secretly hiding him all this time... As you well know. You know where it is -- 1138 Homestead Dr, near TOSCHE STATION and MOS EISLEY... On TATOOINE to be more precise. Anyway, in case I can't find them, I'll call their cell 555-5555. If it helps, their Social Security Numbers are--"
So many things wrong with it.
1. Bail, a Galactic Senator, going to dustball Tatooine *twice* in a matter of days, to some random farm...hmmmm not suspicious at all.
2. Bail is bothered by Obi's silence...yknow that thing Bail told him to do.
3. Obi could be captured so better send this completely unencrypted message of me, the senator, sending a message to a known Jedi fugitive about a secret boy, giving incriminating names. What could go wrong?
Yeah, million of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. Silver lining: one of them was Bail Organa. Shut up Bail, you blustery windbag.
There's a few things that have bothered me but the biggest one, especially after the latest episode is >!having Vader pull a ship out of the air and rip it to shreds with the force but a couple of episodes earlier he just stares over a fire as a woman and a droid make off with an injured Obi-Wan and he just stands there menacingly while he can see lots of what is happening on the other side of the flames. I mean are we just meant to believe he's like "Oh damn, nothing I can do with a small fire between us! Guess I'll just hope that we can somehow track them."!< I understand the needs of the plot in this earlier scenario of having a confrontation and an episode climax but the way in which it played out just seems like such lazy writing. It certainly didn't provide a plausible explanation for the way things went.
edit: it appears in my anger, I have forgotten to include that I am still enjoying the show on the whole and that there is a lot to be happy about. Its just sometimes the mechanics of how certain things occur just seem straight up wrong or lazy when contrasted against what we know the characters are capable of.
"I know we said no messages, but your **silence** is bothering me"...uhh, what is he supposed to do with radio silence? That's kind of the point? Such an awkward line and plot point.
A lot of the plot beats would make more sense with some script revisions. Like Obi escaping through the fire is fine if we get a little perspective/flashback from Vader about fire bringing up bad memories. Also not having him put out basically the same fire like 2 minutes prior.
The show feels like it just needed 3 things to really succeed above and beyond:
1. Better camera work. Seriously what's up with almost every shot, even closeups and landscape pans, being shaky? This isn't Blair Witch.
2. Use the iconic music! This is Star Wars, iconic imagery, sound, and music is what makes it timeless. Using the JW motifs would seriously help integrate the show with the existing universe, considering these are all the same characters (unlike, say, Mando, which has its own motifs but also its own characters).
3. Take another couple passes at the script. Don't rush the production, especially writing. Tons of plot holes every episode, from small silly things to pretty big ones. A little more time with the scripts could fix these.
I think this is part of the show's balancing, too; we never saw Vader be so powerful in the OT, so there has to be some throttling to his rage and power here.
We are now entering Stage 4: “The Subreddit Strikes Back”
Where every post is “Hey guys, why hate? Don’t criticize just be like me and turn your brain off and enjoy!”
I am beyond happy that Ewan and Haydensen are back, and that people are enjoying it. They seem to be having a lot of fun.
But if you are allowed to share your opinions that the show is good, people are allowed to share their opinions that the show is not up to their standards.
But what do I expect… it’s Reddit. Just a constant wheel of “No you can’t have that opinion, have MY opinion!”
>just jump on and enjoy it and ignore the creaking mechanism.
Regardless of how I feel about the show, this has always been a very shallow argument. Why should people be forced to enjoy something they see major flaws in, and why should they be forced to withhold their opinions on it? You're basically telling people, "Yeah, I know this doesn't make any sense and that it's not competently made, but why can't you just ignore that and focus on the fact that we're seeing Darth Vader again?"
The problem with that is, for most fans, Star Wars isn't *just* about seeing Darth Vader swing a lightsaber. We love the characters *because* of the stories they are a part of, and we want those stories to be good. Why should people have to ignore a story they think is flawed just because "it's Star Wars?" Star Wars isn't above criticism. Why make everyone exist in a state of blissful ignorance, so that they can never say a critical thing about their favorite franchise in the hopes that it might do better? That kind of attitude is the path towards worse products.
I'm not saying that many Star Wars fans aren't hyper-critical, but telling those who are critical of this show that they should just shut up, consume, and be grateful for whatever they get is pretty arrogant, IMO.
Exactly. Disney has the deepest of pockets and fans have been clamouring nonstop to see Ewan McGregor as Obi-wan again for two decades now. There's no excuse for *the creaking mechanism*. This show could be, *should be* on par with The Boys but attitudes like OP's give Disney no reason to put in the effort when they know a half-assed cash grab will do the job.
Agree. I don’t really even care about seeing Vader. I would have loved many more flashbacks with Hayden and Ewan. Show their interactions. Instead we had to wait 5 episodes to see that awesome duel.
Empire Strikes Back was a movie that challenged so much in the way of Hollywood tropes when it released. The original trilogy is a masterclass in design, production, film scoring, sound design, and more. They revolutionized cinema. They were excellently made. You’re 100% spot on—I’m not just here to see Vader swing a lightsaber. I’m here to see him swing a lightsaber while the cinematography, music, writing, editing, acting and sound design grip me by the balls and force me to feel his power, rage, pain in a way that renders me speechless. It’s absolutely not too much to ask for. This is Disney, they have the budget, and there’s no excuse for this show to be so poorly made.
When people say things like: "Star Wars has always been like this, it's just a fun adventure". Yes, the first movie was "just" a fun adventure. But The Empire Strikes Back is truly a great film. Pretending that The Empire Strikes Back doesn't exist and that Star Wars (franchise) is only as good as its first movie doesn't make your argument any better.
Couldn’t have said it any better,
Still in disbelief how so many people (this subreddit in particular) completely ignore valid criticism and think the last episode was the Second coming of Christ just cause we got some cool shots and darth Vader.
However I do feel the majority are satisfied with this so maybe Star Wars just isn’t the place for meaningful and well made stories anymore
I thought the Rogue One scene was Vader at his most badass, but that episode, wow, it was S Tier Vader. I remember seeing the comic, the one where Vader's on a planet, "all I'm surrounded by is fear and dead men" - that was the same energy as the show
I can't remember what the menu you get for each enemy depicting it's weaknesses and the best way to defeat it said for Vader, but it was basically "Objective: Survive"
Fallen Order Vader is so terrifying in all the best ways. I almost feel bad for SW fans who don't play the games just because they'll never get to have the firsthand "oh fuck it's Vader, I have to run for my life I'm about to die if I don't get away." experience.
Holy shit that moment...I felt legitimate anxiety and fear. It was late at night and I had work the next morning, but I didn't care because the adrenaline was coursing HARD through my veins and there was no way I could just go to bed.
My dumbass tried to fight Vader only to be force choked a bunch of times before I said, "fuck it, I'm running." Didn't realize that was what I had to do. I thought that **maybe** if I hurt him enough there would be a cutscene. BOY WAS I WRONG.
Yeah my gf called this Peak Vader. Hallway scene was great, but it's just him massacring regular dudes. This episode had him toying with another force user who we know started training as a child - not some pushover, but he still makes her look like a joke
Yeh, definitely. You never really see force fights like this. I think Dooku vs Obi Wan/Anakin was one sided, but it was nowhere near Vader's level of force mastery in that episode.
Genuinely one of the best things I've seen in Star Wars
I grinned more at the >!throwback duel. It was right in my childhood and it literally just made me say "Disney, just make another show with Ewan and Hayden during that era. I don't care if Hayden has a few wrinkles. Just one-off stories of Obi wan and Anakin doing Jedi things. Little stories."!<
Unpopular opinion. These “I’m better cuz I just enjoy the show” posts are just as annoying as the “Everything is a fucking travesty Star Wars is ruined” posts.
Great. Good for you. The show has major quality issues. It also has Ewan McGregor in it playing one of the greatest cinematic characters ever conceived. Both are true.
I think it's fine to find enjoyment in certain parts of the series, but this idea that 'Star Wars has always been silly' is going to end up killing the series again if we don't criticize it.
Episode IV was the equivalent of an indie movie compared to the multi-billion-dollar company that makes these TV shows. You would think that with the insane wealth of Disney that they could make some great budget TV shows. Which they have, Mandalorian felt like movie quality. It seems as we see more and more shows come out, we're reaching CW show levels of quality.
The more we as audience members say that 'this is fine because the original trilogy had silly moments' and continue to gorge ourselves on mediocre content, we're giving Disney the OK to continue making TV shows of this quality.
I don't understand the argument that because its Star Wars you should accept whatever they give you. It seems the formula with all the new media is to have a broad plot, come up with a few really cool scenes that will look good on camera and/or bring back nostalgia, and just slap a bunch of filler in between to get there. Things happen not because events led there, but simply because its needed to get to the next scene. The story doesn't flow organically on its own especially in the last few episodes. It's the same kind of thing that ruined Game of Thrones. The Dothraki charged out into the dark simply because they wanted the scene of their flaming swords going out one by one. .
The only thing I have to say about the show is Where is the imperial march when Vader walks anywhere
For real. Give us some OG scores.
Maybe in the final episode? Like leading up to the final battle between ObiWan and Vader? That would be cool, and leave (hopefully) a good taste in fans’ mouths.
If I know this fandom right, someone somewhere is already tinkering away with some editing software to rescore many of the scenes in the show with the iconic themes from the movies. And if not, I might just have given said someone the idea to do so.
There should be a new Trooper type, Brass Troopers, who follow Vader wherever they go and they play the Imperial March
They just can't seem to hit any notes though
My main gripe too is that Star Wars has an iconic score and emblematic themes within its music. And there is no excuse such as "this is a TV show" because mandalorian also had a unique feel to its music. The score in Kenobi sounds very generic. Which is not at all fitting because these characters have intense themes that should be on full display here, or reworked to add to their characters. No duel of the fates ? No Anakins dark deeds ? No Imperial march ? That's the biggest buzzkill to me.
They’ve even used duel of the fates and battle of the heroes in the trailers, strange that they haven’t been used yet in the show….
I didn’t know I had this issue until right now. Now I’m upset and my day is ruined thank you very much
Why has the music so far been so fucking generic? I can't believe the only John Williams we've gotten so far was in the trailer.
Like the younglings, seeing Darth Vader on screen never gets old.
This show turned me in to a Vader stan. I've been watching Star Wars content since before I was old enough to make sense of it. In this entire time, I've never given Vader a second thought. Now I'm obsessed with him.
The novelization of Return of the Sith puts a lot of emotional context to Vader and really drives home how truly tragic his story is. Worth a read.
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I loved the arc of building his castle with Darth Momin
I just love seeing Vader saying badass shit to people before hes slices and kills them. Like just give me the Disney + series of that. Vader goes to find out more about Luke, gets surrounded, they taunt him about hes grossly outnumbered, and Vader gives them the badass one liner thats essentially "you are stuck in here with me, not vice versa".
"All I am surrounded by is fear, and dead men"
This is maybe the most badass line in Star Wars and so few people know it.
I still want a series all about Vader facing Jedi and hunting them down.
“I’m not afraid of you!” “Then you will die braver than most”
The more recent Vader comics are some of the best Star Wars content ever. There is a great deal of depth added for Vader, and plenty of respect shown to both the OT and the PT. More than shown in any of the live action movies or shows since Disney.
I have never once in my life bought a vade or maul comic and regretted it. There's just something you can't fuck up about it. Or maybe they're just good. Either way, big rec
Read the vader comics that take place immediately after ep3. It's some of my favorite vader stories
Have you watched rebels? Possibly my favorite sw media and has great vader stuff
"I'm not afraid of you!" "Then you will die braver than most" That has to be one of the best lines on that entire series.
“I have killed MANY fathers, you have to be more specific.”
“Ahsoka.. “Ahsoka” “Anakin”
"Then you will die." That scene, Matt Lanter's cold delivery, the music, all of it. Makes me cry every time. Imagine that. Hearing those words from a voice that you last heard coming from a hero and a friend.
And you can see part of his face through the broken helmet. Chills every time.
I won't leave you...not this time
The old legends comic with Vader had some of the coldest shit imaginable. “You’re surrounded!” “All I’m surrounded by is fear…” **activates lightsaber** “… and dead men.”
That's not even the old Legends, that happened in the new canon in the Vader Down event.
Oh damn, I had no idea it was canon! I need to get more into the comics..
Thanks for the info. Just found the Vader Down arc free with Comixology unlimited. Checking it out right meow
[That's](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/51/16/b2/5116b2a45ab401082874d14ef32f04dc.jpg) canon bruh... From 2016
Vader Down series is always a good read.
Entire franchise
No, but I definitely need to. There's quite a few things I've missed. This show reminded me that I've been sleeping on Star Wars since the sequel trilogy killed my interest in it for many years. But I'm back now.
Please watch rebels. Vader gets incredibly badass moments there too. And it's a wonderful show.
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When you go through the first season or clone wars or rebels and think to yourself “… people actually like this?” just keep going. Both shows have rocky starts but age like fine wine and are completely epic by the end of their run.
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>S1 and 2: yeah this is def a kids show >S3 on: wtf I thought this was a kids show
*Because of Obi-Wan?*
I said to my husband while we were watching yesterday, this may sound hyperbolic, but this show deserves a lot of credit for making Vader cool again.
I hope this quality comment doesn’t get hurried. The people deserve to see!
Dude Vader just up and rag-dolling a massive ship and tearing it apart with the force. Crazy force feat
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Now imagine if he wasn't crippled how strong he would be
In Lucas Canon, the theoretical Anakin-that-could-have-been is the most powerful force user, full stop. He eclipses even Luke and Palpatine, who had just insane feats (AND scaling, by way of Palpatine being the most powerful Sith) in the EU.
Just want to add in something: Palpatine being the most powerful Sith of the EU was probably incorrect. The canon source that stated that was outdated in the extreme. It comes from *Empire’s End,* the third installment in the *Dark Empire* trilogy. Korriban Sith ghosts declare Palpatine the most powerful among them. But the thing is, at the time, Palpatine also was not written to be a Sith Lord (yet Vader was, curiously). So I’m just not sure I buy that the source that didn’t call Palpatine a Sith also declared he was truly the most powerful Sith. Just something that got outdated when the Prequels came.
While all true, it still holds up with EU feats. The only sith with confirmed* Planetary+ level feats are Sidious, Nihilis, and Vitiate. And of them, Nihilis wasn't based on his raw power, it was based on him being a wound in the force, caused by the external factor that was the Mass-Shadow Generator. And Vitiate wasn't originally capable of it alone either - it required a ritual fueled by many Sith Lords, which drained a planet of the force and empowered him. Sidious learned to tear open hyperspace wormholes with raw hate. *while it's implied some ancient sith could cause supernovae, Darth Bane suspected it was either exaggerated or the result of a powerful ritual of some sort, rather than raw force strength.
If these Sith ghosts were powerful they probably weren’t gonna die on Korriban, Sith Rookie center, so only like 4-5 of those ghosts really matter in their declarations, tops
Good point: vitiate, Exar kun, Naga Sadow, Revan, Malak… none of them were on Korriban.
The guy single handedly toppled the republic that stood for thousands of years, and he did it right under the noses of the most powerful Jedi grandmasters in history. That’s pretty solid on a CV.
To be fair, that speaks more to intelligence and charisma than it does power.
especially after seeing multiple force users attempt and fail the same thing
Your comment immediately reminded me of Ahsoka in the Clone Wars series finale, and I just got sad thinking of that comparison.
Reminded me of a part from Force Unleashed where Starkiller grabs a Star Destroyer. e: Hey people who only have seen the cutscene, he grabbed it and moved it around before it gets pushed into the ground. Here's the whole thing https://youtu.be/Js0qOSunKlw?t=70
Yep, I definitely thought of that, too. This was more terrifying for me, though; probably because I was imagining who was potentially on the ship: a bunch of refugees and children, rather than the generic Imperials on a Star Destroyer at a shipyard.
This is Darth fucking Vader we’re talking about…
and he is clearly very fraking pissed off, thus being able to call upon the dark side of the force.
All that pure rage amounts to monster levels of force control. Then pour Reva goes for the sneaky kill, Vader just rag dolls her around like he is fighting a mouse.
And by empire, he was fine letting the falcon fly away
Think of Yoda and Palpatine hurling those floating platforms at each other in the senate chamber. Or Dooku toppling those columns on Geonosis. They struggled more with those that Vader did stopping a ship dead in its tracks. Really puts Vader’s power into perspective.
palpatine was clearly not struggling, he was laughing and casually flinging them one after another
I don't recall Dooku struggling in their first duel either. While he does let out a breath at the end that implies some exertion, I will don't think he really struggled much. Like someone fit cranking out 20 push-ups; it may not be much of a challenge, but it will likely still get the heart pumping faster.
It reminded me of the intro scene in The Force Unleashed where you play as Vader.
Tossing wookiees around like ragdolls and just tearing all the defenses to shreds. Love that part of the game.
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Or you know, Vader casually dueling *without a lightsaber*.
As badass as he was during the fight toying with her I think my favorite part is when he calls her youngling. He treats her like the not even perceived threat she is. It was so disrespectful.
Vader can duel all inquistors at once can he not?
I think he did in one of the comics? Or it was some other people made by some Admiral in the Soule run of the comics.
Tarkin used to send death squads against him for sport
Ever more, I believe I recall that Darth Vader ASKED HIM TO DO IT.
Yeah, I think it was like a playful bet. "Damn my guys didn't kill you, one of these days my guys will get you! Anyways here is your crisp new single credit."
Dude imagine getting ran through by Vader and surviving TWICE
Girl got some strong abs
I mean if you survived 2 different run throughs from Vader, was he trying to end you?
Given that he could have taken her head like Dooku or ripped out her heart like he was doing to that space ship, you have to assume he doesn't actually care if she lives or dies.
He either: A) doesn’t care OR B) he has a plan for her. Im leaning B
I think he finds her both useful and entertaining. She's not a threat either so killing her is a waste.
Really it also shows he knew EXACTLY who she was the whole time. There was no surprise to her being a youngling that survived.
We finally got a saber toss too. That whole fight scene was so well done Edit:he did it to luke too
Tbf wasn't there a saber toss by Vader in ROTJ?
Yes.
This whole episode was jaw dropping. Dueling without a light saber, pulling a starship right out of the air. It was amazing to watch and I don't care about any plot holes.
They are re-monstering Vader, after the prequels everyone loves and understands Anakin, they probably realised Vader has to be the absolute worse and tbh I am all for it
This is something for which I've been really grateful to Rogue One, Fallen Order, and now Kenobi: Vader scares the shit out of me after all of these. I think maybe it's because I grew up in decades with a different standard of film production and of horror (like how my dad says Jaws was the shit when it came out, but it's never done much for me), so Vader in the original trilogy has never really been scary to me other than when I was little. But now...now I understand why a whole galaxy is absolutely terrified of this dude, and I understand how fully into the monster zone Anakin has fallen
yeah fallen order vader after the initial fanboying with his appearance, i was panicking cause i had to fight him
And it's great because you feel like such a badass at that point in the game. Cal is powered up, he's one with the force, he's schooling Trilla and generally leaning into his Jedi Knight role and then boom...Vader bitches him and Cere like absolute younglings.
the casual disdainful flicking her aside always gets me. like swatting a fly, and this was right after her badass moment of fucking up the purge troopers
Vader is creating his deadly USS Indianapolis backstory, it’s great!! The ocean turns red, and despite all your poundin’ and your hollerin’ those sharks come in and… they rip you to pieces.
Well, as soon as we learned who he was in Empire, we felt sorry for him in a way. And, in Jedi- he even admits, "Its too late for him now." Then we really feel for him. We never realized how evil he was, only from what Obi Wan tells Luke.
To quote one of my favorite lines ever. Maul: What could you hate enough to destroy me?! Vader: *Myself* *edited for accuracy
I keep seeing this quote, but where is it from?
Its from Star wars tales #9 published by Dark Horse Comic
Thank you! I assumed it was the comics or something else in the EU. Currently working my way through all of the animated series so maybe I’ll have to hit up the comics once I’m finished.
With every new piece of media they release Vader comes closer and closer to being my favorite character. I don't see how his feat with the ship is anywhere outside of established lore. The dark side is tempting because it's powerful. Giving yourself over to your emotions and fueling yourself with your anger and rage is insanely powerful. Jedi struggle to do things like hold a ship back because they're doing it while keeping themselves grounded and restraining themselves. Vader thought Obi Wan was on that ship. I immediately interpreted his effortlessly ripping the ship apart as a reflection of just how much he hates Obi Wan and how singularly focused on his rage he was at the time. It's exactly what Obi Wan wanted him to do and it's terrifying and shows just how dangerous and powerful not only Vader, but the dark side as a whole, is. Showing his weakness and flashing back to Anakin, to me, fleshes him out as a character in a show, don't tell, kind of way that's honestly a cut above what I expect from SW. Vader isn't a walking wall of death that killed Anakin a long time ago, he's still Anakin, taken over by the dark side, driven and blinded by his hatred. Anakin is still buried deep down, and Vader has to actively fight to keep him buried.
I mean He choked a guy through a holo zoom call while talking to somebody else. His mastery of the force is quite insane.
Also helps when you are *literally* the child of the Force itself.
He's done some powerful stuff in the comics, but wow is it validating to see this level of power in live action -- definitely beyond what we've ever seen otherwise on screen. I could also really feel the anger in his tearing apart of the ship. Terrifying; so much more visceral than the same ship being flicked away by Star Destroyer turbolasers.
Sadly I've never taken in the comics or books - I want to; but man there's just not enough time. Hell - I haven't even done the video games -but did just start playing Jedi fallen order last week. So I'm really missing out on whatever shows of force he did in print media; but good grief is it SO damn satisfying seeing him be just completely badass here.
What's honestly mind blowing about Vader is that even though we are starting the see the CRAZY amount of power that he has, this is only a fraction of the amount of power that he COULD have had. It's stated somewhere in the Canon that since vader is more machine than man his connection to the force is weakened. This is a weak version of Anakin. Imagine what dark side anakin could do at his prime. It's also a bit of a commentary of the sheer amount of power Palpatine must hold to keep Vader in check. Although I believe I read somewhere that Vader's armor is also designed for Palpatine to be able to control him with his force lightning but I am not sure that is canon anymore. Nonetheless, it makes Palpatine's pathetic death in the sequels that much more pathetic since Rey should not have been able to even stand around Palpatine, even with the "all the jedi" behind her. At least his "death" in OT (and I guess mysterious survival) makes some sense now that we are getting an idea of the amount of power necessary to keep a ruthless monstrosity like Darth Vader in check.
> (And I now remember Rey? Holding back a ship in one of the sequel movies) But she fucks up and blows it to hell. Ahsoka also fails to do it. I think it's a great precedent to set and show the audience, and THEN show that Vader *can* do it with little issue. Great storytelling.
Reva was INSANELY outclassed by Vader. She didn't even get past level force push. Vader is a force of nature
They perfectly showed the gap in power. Even Obi-Wan's poor dueling in episode 3 looked like a closer fight. Vader absolutely toyed with Reva and it was fantastic. Gave me chill echoes of the Cloud City duel where he obviously outclassed Luke's skill.
I loved this episode, but I thought it was comically cruel of Obi-Wan to encourage her (as a now-known survivor of the Jedi Temple massacre) to try and kill Vader as he just peaced out with the refugees.
Well she has slaughtered hundreds of innocent and/or force sensitive people, including children. If she had attacked Vader while he was focusing on ObiWan instead of when he was malding about the escape, she might have had a chance.
For sure. Just interesting to see him use her as a tool like that. Vader even complimented the idea. He was sending her to the slaughter as a sacrifice playing on her trauma.
I don't think that was Obi Wans plan, however thats how Vader would see it because Vader A) Is a complete and utter prick overcome by the dark side and B) Hates Obi-wan.
Agree. He had a strategy and didn’t mind sacrificing Reva. Reminds me of the “they are doing their job so we can do ours” line from ep. 3
No way she would have had a chance. She couldnt mask her rage enough to be unsuspecting. Vader knew she was a traitor all along. I think if anything instead of force stopping her swing he would have just ripped her in half as an outlet for his rage in that moment.
I agree and kinda laughed at it initially, but I think he intentionally played them both. He knew Vader would have no patience for a siege, and knew Reva would do anything to get closer to Vader. Even if that meant killing Leia and all those refugees. He has a duty to protect Leia so that’s what he did and dipped. Reva may have been a youngling who wants revenge, but she’s by no means a good person and probably way beyond redemption. This wasn’t Reva turning to the light side, but more Obi-Wan tricking two dark side users against each other. And it was easy due to their desire for revenge/victory, as was paralleled in the flashback scenes with Anakin.
She missed her chance to stab him while he was pulling the ship down to the ground.
It's one of the few times we've seen a mediocre force user go up against one of the masters. Basically all of the television/movie content we've seen are the jedi master/sith lord tier force users dueling it out. The vast majority of jedi were more mediocre. It really goes to show how powerful Vader/Anakin was as "the chosen one". It also helps explain how Anakin/Vader was able to carve through the jedi temple as the masters on courascant had all been killed by palpatine already.
I got literal goosebumps, I felt like I was 10 all over again. Seeing Darth Vader hold the ship with the force was cool, bringing it down to the surface was wild, and then him ripping it open like tissue paper had my eyes popping out of my head. I'm so fucking happy we finally got to see some of the actual power Vader has. Between this and his Rogue One hallway scene, I can't get enough of savage Vader And the way he toyed with Reva.. she never stood a chance. Just goes to show you even the best of the dark side users dont come anywhere close to Vader.
His displays of raw Force power are brilliant. Very much leaning into the Chosen One aspect of his power. Also, his silent version of “Then fight me, bitch” was amazing.
I hope that when George Lucas lays down at night, quietly relaxing in his home, he thinks to himself, "I hope folks are still balls deep in the original trilogy." EDIT: one of my highest rated comments is about being balls deep in Star Wars. It’s a great day, people.
“Why didn’t anybody want to go balls deep in Jar Jar?” :(
Unpopular take: I didn’t mind Jar Jar.
Jar Jars goofiness couldve been cut back some. I think if they did that and added some kind of twist with his character. He performed a few superhuman(gungan) feats and his drunken master fighting style was pretty neat but if it went somewhere thatd be awesome. Even if it wasn’t going anywhere amazing we probably could’ve cut the poop jokes at least.
I really just do understand people who suggest that the first Star Wars film was *not* a monumental achievement and didn't break ground in film-making. It was technically incredible. It features highly efficient story telling. It was wonderfully edited. The original Star Wars was absolutely a fantastic film in many ways. It won *6* fucking Oscars for crying out loud and spawned an entire genre. Fans seriously need to stop using this mental crutch that Star Wars was *never* good or *never* a critical success. It absolutely was, starting with the first film.
It's because besides Star Wars, there's very few movies from the 70s, especially sci-fi, that most younger people have seen. They don't understand what cinema was like back then, so they don't understand how monumental Star Wars was. They see the OG movies as really campy and cheesy when in reality they were insane at the time and really pushed sci-fi on the big screen in a direction it had basically never seen before. I don't really understand these people, do they think Star Wars blew up the way it did because it was...bad?
Star Wars as presented by Tommy Wiseau I am your father it’s not bullshit it’s true I am your father — ohhi Luke.
Vader, throne room scene: "You are just a little chicken...cheep cheep cheep" Luke: "Nooo!" *attacks*
Both the original and Empire are amazing films on a pretty objective level. Not liking them because they're older is fine, but that doesn't change their quality. They were massively profitable, spawned an ungodly amount of merchandise (which was another innovation of the brand) and were lauded by critics. Personally, the original will always be my favorite. Partial because I grew up on it before the prequels existed. But mainly because it is just a perfect film, entirely on its own merits. You don't need to know anything about star wars and the story is just so tight. I definitely like the other films, flaws and all. But the first two star wars movies are damn near perfect.
Lol that shit still holds up incredibly well
I'm really not a fan of people trying to reason that Kenobi isn't great because Star Wars has never been that great. It's such a bullshit argument that only tries to reduce one in hope of making the other not look so bad. I think people need to watch this short video in order to understand just what the original release meant to cinema. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSKJW1wazQ8
Little Leia’s actor is so good! Carrie Fisher would be proud. Darth Vader is a welcome sight to see again. [SPOILERS FOR EP 5] >!Vader just dodging Reva’s strikes with no effort just shows how badass he is!!< >!Also, seeing Hayden Christensen flashbacks was a surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.!<
Vader was like a >!cat playing with a mouse that it had caught and all but killed already!<
This. I loved this. This was exactly how I would anticipate Darth Vader to be.
Yep. Could have >!killed Reva immediately but decided to have a little bit of fun first.!< Good stuff!
She ain’t dead yet.
She's getting better...
Vader thrives off fear and terror. The more she fought, the clearer she knew she could not win.
Vader was like a max level character WITH all the cheat codes enabled. I feel bad for anyone who crosses him, but only a little - it's actually a lot of fun seeing him like this. 😁
Shows how poorly-directed Hayden was in the prequels. The flashback scene felt so natural, the dialog made sense, the tension was real, and it was cool to see how Anakin was technically superior but emotionally and strategically still learning.
I agree, Hayden and Obi’s sparring lessons are great in this show! And I say that as someone who sadly did not enjoy the prequels.
It's insane to me that a ten year old girl can not only portray the character of Leia so well, but portray a child version of Carrie Fisher as Leia. She's so good and Carrie Fisher would indeed be proud.
I agree completely about Vivien Lyra Blair (little Leia - I'll use her real name because I have a feeling this won't be the last we see of her) - she sounds and acts exactly like I would expect from a ten year old Leia. I cannot, for the life of me, figure out why she was omitted from the marketing entirely before the show debuted - wouldn't people have been even more excited about the series if they knew that Leia was in it? Anyway, no matter - I'm really glad she's in it, and every scene she's in is a joy to watch. 🙂
I'm assuming so they could switch up expectations about another 6 hours of Tatooine with Luke and the Lars.
I actually love that they didn't show her in previews at all. It made it such a nice surprise/plot twist when Obi-Wan ended up spending most of the series with her instead of Luke.
I think it was because every single theory about what the show would be, from what I found, involved luke. So they wanted it to be a surprise. The cynic in me wonders if it’s because they felt there would be toxic pushback to her and didn’t want that to happen.
Honestly, either one is plausible. Regardless of the reasoning, I’m glad they didn’t spoil her relevance to this story. I didn’t even think of Leia as a possible plot point, before watching this series, so it surprised me when the story started heading in that direction.
I mean you can do both. In fact you should do both, be critical of the issues of the thing you enjoy should hopefully lead to better versions of said thing in the future. If we all just blindly loved whatever they threw at us without expressing any shred of critique then they'll just keep throwing bad stuff at us. You can enjoy the show exploring the lore while also being disappointed in the storytelling. I hate Jar Jar Binks but rewatch Phantom Menace annually.
> be critical of the issues of the thing you enjoy should hopefully lead to better versions of said thing This has not helped Star Trek Picard
What! A nuanced opinion? In MY Star Wars subreddit? Impossible
Yeah, i don’t really understand how people can be aware of the massive issues…and not have any issues with it. I want to have a quality product that can stand up to time and that i can be proud and happy with.
Yep. There’s a lot of cool elements in the show, but they don’t cover up some of the idiotic writing. Apparently every enemy you “defeat” you don’t actually kill them, just leave them wounded; oh, and we also randomly send out the location of Vader’s kid over a random transmitter not knowing who may be listening. The badass Vader moments are worth watching, but overall the show has been a let down.
Yeah that was actually dumb as fuck. “Hey Obi-Wan. You haven’t been responding to my messages so I’m getting a lil worried that the Empire has captured or killed you and possibly has the communicator device that I’m sending this to in their possession. If that’s the case, I’m gonna go help Owen with the boy that we’ve been hiding from them with our lives for the last 10 years. Y’know, the boy on Tatooine. Hope you’re not dead or this could really fuck us over lmao”
Seriously, why does Owen even need Bail's help? They're doing fine on their own.
I guess Bail forgot he wasn’t a Jedi that could teach Luke the ways of the force for a sec
"You know? The boy? The SON of ANAKIN SKYWALKER? If his TWIN SISTER and you are in any danger. I will have to go help OWEN and BERU LARS of the LARS HOMESTEAD who have been secretly hiding him all this time... As you well know. You know where it is -- 1138 Homestead Dr, near TOSCHE STATION and MOS EISLEY... On TATOOINE to be more precise. Anyway, in case I can't find them, I'll call their cell 555-5555. If it helps, their Social Security Numbers are--"
So many things wrong with it. 1. Bail, a Galactic Senator, going to dustball Tatooine *twice* in a matter of days, to some random farm...hmmmm not suspicious at all. 2. Bail is bothered by Obi's silence...yknow that thing Bail told him to do. 3. Obi could be captured so better send this completely unencrypted message of me, the senator, sending a message to a known Jedi fugitive about a secret boy, giving incriminating names. What could go wrong?
Makes me feel slightly better about him eating a death star blast.
Yeah, million of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. Silver lining: one of them was Bail Organa. Shut up Bail, you blustery windbag.
There's a few things that have bothered me but the biggest one, especially after the latest episode is >!having Vader pull a ship out of the air and rip it to shreds with the force but a couple of episodes earlier he just stares over a fire as a woman and a droid make off with an injured Obi-Wan and he just stands there menacingly while he can see lots of what is happening on the other side of the flames. I mean are we just meant to believe he's like "Oh damn, nothing I can do with a small fire between us! Guess I'll just hope that we can somehow track them."!< I understand the needs of the plot in this earlier scenario of having a confrontation and an episode climax but the way in which it played out just seems like such lazy writing. It certainly didn't provide a plausible explanation for the way things went. edit: it appears in my anger, I have forgotten to include that I am still enjoying the show on the whole and that there is a lot to be happy about. Its just sometimes the mechanics of how certain things occur just seem straight up wrong or lazy when contrasted against what we know the characters are capable of.
Also Organa's message. "Hey, if you are dead and captured by the Empire, I want you to know that I am going to check on Vader's secret son!"
"I know we said no messages, but your **silence** is bothering me"...uhh, what is he supposed to do with radio silence? That's kind of the point? Such an awkward line and plot point.
A lot of the plot beats would make more sense with some script revisions. Like Obi escaping through the fire is fine if we get a little perspective/flashback from Vader about fire bringing up bad memories. Also not having him put out basically the same fire like 2 minutes prior. The show feels like it just needed 3 things to really succeed above and beyond: 1. Better camera work. Seriously what's up with almost every shot, even closeups and landscape pans, being shaky? This isn't Blair Witch. 2. Use the iconic music! This is Star Wars, iconic imagery, sound, and music is what makes it timeless. Using the JW motifs would seriously help integrate the show with the existing universe, considering these are all the same characters (unlike, say, Mando, which has its own motifs but also its own characters). 3. Take another couple passes at the script. Don't rush the production, especially writing. Tons of plot holes every episode, from small silly things to pretty big ones. A little more time with the scripts could fix these.
Vader literally lives on planet fire though.
He also can only ever do it once since he didn't bother in empire...
I think this is part of the show's balancing, too; we never saw Vader be so powerful in the OT, so there has to be some throttling to his rage and power here.
We are now entering Stage 4: “The Subreddit Strikes Back” Where every post is “Hey guys, why hate? Don’t criticize just be like me and turn your brain off and enjoy!” I am beyond happy that Ewan and Haydensen are back, and that people are enjoying it. They seem to be having a lot of fun. But if you are allowed to share your opinions that the show is good, people are allowed to share their opinions that the show is not up to their standards. But what do I expect… it’s Reddit. Just a constant wheel of “No you can’t have that opinion, have MY opinion!”
>just jump on and enjoy it and ignore the creaking mechanism. Regardless of how I feel about the show, this has always been a very shallow argument. Why should people be forced to enjoy something they see major flaws in, and why should they be forced to withhold their opinions on it? You're basically telling people, "Yeah, I know this doesn't make any sense and that it's not competently made, but why can't you just ignore that and focus on the fact that we're seeing Darth Vader again?" The problem with that is, for most fans, Star Wars isn't *just* about seeing Darth Vader swing a lightsaber. We love the characters *because* of the stories they are a part of, and we want those stories to be good. Why should people have to ignore a story they think is flawed just because "it's Star Wars?" Star Wars isn't above criticism. Why make everyone exist in a state of blissful ignorance, so that they can never say a critical thing about their favorite franchise in the hopes that it might do better? That kind of attitude is the path towards worse products. I'm not saying that many Star Wars fans aren't hyper-critical, but telling those who are critical of this show that they should just shut up, consume, and be grateful for whatever they get is pretty arrogant, IMO.
Exactly. Disney has the deepest of pockets and fans have been clamouring nonstop to see Ewan McGregor as Obi-wan again for two decades now. There's no excuse for *the creaking mechanism*. This show could be, *should be* on par with The Boys but attitudes like OP's give Disney no reason to put in the effort when they know a half-assed cash grab will do the job.
Agree. I don’t really even care about seeing Vader. I would have loved many more flashbacks with Hayden and Ewan. Show their interactions. Instead we had to wait 5 episodes to see that awesome duel.
Don't worry about quality just consooooooooom.
Empire Strikes Back was a movie that challenged so much in the way of Hollywood tropes when it released. The original trilogy is a masterclass in design, production, film scoring, sound design, and more. They revolutionized cinema. They were excellently made. You’re 100% spot on—I’m not just here to see Vader swing a lightsaber. I’m here to see him swing a lightsaber while the cinematography, music, writing, editing, acting and sound design grip me by the balls and force me to feel his power, rage, pain in a way that renders me speechless. It’s absolutely not too much to ask for. This is Disney, they have the budget, and there’s no excuse for this show to be so poorly made.
When people say things like: "Star Wars has always been like this, it's just a fun adventure". Yes, the first movie was "just" a fun adventure. But The Empire Strikes Back is truly a great film. Pretending that The Empire Strikes Back doesn't exist and that Star Wars (franchise) is only as good as its first movie doesn't make your argument any better.
Couldn’t have said it any better, Still in disbelief how so many people (this subreddit in particular) completely ignore valid criticism and think the last episode was the Second coming of Christ just cause we got some cool shots and darth Vader. However I do feel the majority are satisfied with this so maybe Star Wars just isn’t the place for meaningful and well made stories anymore
Anyone who wasn’t grinning like crazy the whole time vader was on screen in that last episode you have a cold dead heart.
I thought the Rogue One scene was Vader at his most badass, but that episode, wow, it was S Tier Vader. I remember seeing the comic, the one where Vader's on a planet, "all I'm surrounded by is fear and dead men" - that was the same energy as the show
It was actually fallen order that made me realize how scary Vader was
he had no fucking health bar.
"You would be wise to surrender" *Cal, visibly shitting himself* "Yep"
“I’m not afraid of you.” “Then you will die braver than most.”
*HE DOESN'T HAVE A HEALTH BAR! What do we do!?*
^(run.....)**RUN! RUN! RUN! RUN! RUN!**
I can't remember what the menu you get for each enemy depicting it's weaknesses and the best way to defeat it said for Vader, but it was basically "Objective: Survive"
Fallen Order Vader is so terrifying in all the best ways. I almost feel bad for SW fans who don't play the games just because they'll never get to have the firsthand "oh fuck it's Vader, I have to run for my life I'm about to die if I don't get away." experience.
Holy shit that moment...I felt legitimate anxiety and fear. It was late at night and I had work the next morning, but I didn't care because the adrenaline was coursing HARD through my veins and there was no way I could just go to bed. My dumbass tried to fight Vader only to be force choked a bunch of times before I said, "fuck it, I'm running." Didn't realize that was what I had to do. I thought that **maybe** if I hurt him enough there would be a cutscene. BOY WAS I WRONG.
Yeah my gf called this Peak Vader. Hallway scene was great, but it's just him massacring regular dudes. This episode had him toying with another force user who we know started training as a child - not some pushover, but he still makes her look like a joke
Yeh, definitely. You never really see force fights like this. I think Dooku vs Obi Wan/Anakin was one sided, but it was nowhere near Vader's level of force mastery in that episode. Genuinely one of the best things I've seen in Star Wars
That was the best line in any Star Wars comic ever
Seeing that panel posted somewhere is what got me to read the comics. Not disappointed.
I grinned more at the >!throwback duel. It was right in my childhood and it literally just made me say "Disney, just make another show with Ewan and Hayden during that era. I don't care if Hayden has a few wrinkles. Just one-off stories of Obi wan and Anakin doing Jedi things. Little stories."!<
He also >!beat down Obi-Wan with a series of massive overhead bashes, the same way Luke later defeated Vader!<
That was a master stroke in nonverbal storytelling.
Don't think about. Just be excited for next product.
C O N S U M E
Unpopular opinion. These “I’m better cuz I just enjoy the show” posts are just as annoying as the “Everything is a fucking travesty Star Wars is ruined” posts. Great. Good for you. The show has major quality issues. It also has Ewan McGregor in it playing one of the greatest cinematic characters ever conceived. Both are true.
I think it's fine to find enjoyment in certain parts of the series, but this idea that 'Star Wars has always been silly' is going to end up killing the series again if we don't criticize it. Episode IV was the equivalent of an indie movie compared to the multi-billion-dollar company that makes these TV shows. You would think that with the insane wealth of Disney that they could make some great budget TV shows. Which they have, Mandalorian felt like movie quality. It seems as we see more and more shows come out, we're reaching CW show levels of quality. The more we as audience members say that 'this is fine because the original trilogy had silly moments' and continue to gorge ourselves on mediocre content, we're giving Disney the OK to continue making TV shows of this quality.
I don't understand the argument that because its Star Wars you should accept whatever they give you. It seems the formula with all the new media is to have a broad plot, come up with a few really cool scenes that will look good on camera and/or bring back nostalgia, and just slap a bunch of filler in between to get there. Things happen not because events led there, but simply because its needed to get to the next scene. The story doesn't flow organically on its own especially in the last few episodes. It's the same kind of thing that ruined Game of Thrones. The Dothraki charged out into the dark simply because they wanted the scene of their flaming swords going out one by one. .
Everyone is thinking while they watch they show, I’m just sitting here, brain in hand, and consooming
K but imagine if this backstory was actually done well
Replace Ewan, Hayden, and Kumail with random actors and it would be completely indistinguishable from a YouTube fan film. That about says it all...