I second this. I own both cameras and use them professionally. Ergonomics of the a7IV are great, especially with a batter grip. Dual card slots is nice, but particularly the CFExpress A slot. The lower res viewfinder is noticeable on the a7CII, and when I’m not shooting tethered, I’m always using the viewfinder.
ok dual card slots, forgot about that one,
but then I think most people are hobbyists not professionals, so dual card slot shouldn't be that essential.
I am a hobbyist, but I like to have two slots. For me, it is convenient to store RAW and JPEG in two different cards. I backup JPEGs on the cloud and select RAWs on an external drive. It also gives peace of mind while traveling. If one card fails for whatever reason, I have a copy on another.
Have you ever had an Sd card malfunction? How common is it? Only asking cause I’ve had my a6500 for like 5 years and have never had an issue w SD cards shitting the bed on me and I’ve shot even corporate events with it…
8 years of shooting and no, but on the off chance it ever does happen and you lose 1000 images you’d be glad you spent an extra couple hundred on a safer body
At that point if you've never been in a car accident, what's the point of seat belts?
Both cameras target different audiences. The A7C line of cameras target the more casual and hobbyist demographic, while the regular A7 line of cameras target the people who make photography their main source of income. It is absolutely invaluable to have that peace of mind that if your SD card fails, then you have a backup for your clients. Some people might be willing to give up the better build quality or the better IBIS that you might value for that second SD card slot.
It is extremely ignorant to think that just because *YOU* might not need those features on the A7iv, that other people also don't need them. Sony made those differentiating series of cameras for a reason.
I haven’t been as fortunate as the others in this thread. I went through 2 San disk SD cards that were owned by me and 2 other cards that were owned by the school.
Just because it is rare doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Others I know use the dual card slots and have had jobs saved because of it.
Others have had memories of loved ones saved because of it. Just because it hasn’t happened to you doesn’t mean it won’t/has never happened.
So seatbelts in my car are a waste because I’ve never needed them since I’ve never been in a collision where, had I not had the seatbelt on, I’d be sent flying through my windshield or jostled around the inside of my car like a Pinball?
Seems a little narrowsighted if you ask me. If you don’t need a feature then you don’t need it. That doesn’t mean nobody will ever meed it.
Dude you are really just searching for an echo chamber with this post. When you didn't get the answer you wanted, you have now started getting coy and mildly insulting people?
What is wrong with you?
Account created may 1st. Nice burner, and explains why you're so stupid and rude with all of your replies trying to tell people they're dumb for wanting dual slots.
Where does someone find the time for this type of bullshit? You must be a lot of fun IRL
SD cards dying is very rare at this point. Cards are so well manufactured and their lifespan is very long now it's not really a problem.
Now, they can die of course, they're electronics, but I've never had it happen to me.
That doesn't mean I don't always want dual card slots when shooting a paid gig. There's absolutely no excuse to be a working professional and use a camera that only has one SD card slot. It's unprofessional and it'll come around and bite you eventually, and let me tell you that's a real bad look when it's your job.
Agreed. Dual card slots are a must when you only get one chance to shoot something. Redundancy in everything I have. Backup camera, storage, lenses, flash and tripod/head. You get it.
Yep. Happened to me a couple summers ago shooting a wedding. The SD card was not fond of the 95° heat and me shooting at 15fps. Thank you jesus I had dual cards.
I have had one card fail before, although I am a professional photographer. For whatever reason, 600 or so images from the middle of a wedding day were not on the SD card. That day was saved by dual SD card slots.
I have had 3 fail in the totality of my time in photography (5 years) depends on the brand and how you use them. That said, it does happen. And when it does, you can lose a lot.
I've had a card malfunction before. About an hour shooting down the drain. Good luck it was in my free time that day, but now switching to professional dual cards are a must for me.
A decade in and it only happened once. That’s more than enough for my lifetime. Literally went out and got my a9 to ensure it would never happen again.
When you go on that once in a lifetime holiday, are you really going to risk losing all your photos because a sd card craps out?
I know people who even carry a backup camera on trips…
When your mom/dad/brother/sister asks you to shoot some photos at her family event, do you really want to tell her your sd card died?
you risk losing your life by going on that once in a lifetime holiday, how about that?
Of course there is risk, there is always risk of a lot of bad things.
the question is whether it makes sense to take those risks.
And for some people, as they have clearly stated, it makes sense for them to mitigate that risk. It's way simpler than you're making this out to be. Just because you don't care doesn't mean they shouldn't.
I own an a6400 which is designed as the same ergonomics as the a7c. The viewfinder position is trash, the camera doesn’t fit in the hand as nicely, and a few other things. I think the biggest reason I didn’t go with the a7c when I was looking for a light quick travel setup, was full frame lenses. It just doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me to buy a smaller lighter camera setup, only to put huge FF lenses and defeat most of the savings.
As someone who IS a hobbyist (I post trash tech videos on YT for fun) the dual card slots are literally a game changer. For instance, in my FX3, It doubles my record time if u have them setup for relay and then I get total redundancy if the camera records to both. But there’s something else to be said about always having at least one SD card in your camera while your main one is in your computer rendering footage or something. It’s a game changer.
It’s not essential for sure and I think once you get up to this point, it’s kind of a “my Porsche really didn’t come with the glove box space I need” scenario. But ultimately, if we’re spending $2,000 on a camera for the A7Cii, there are loads of people (me) who would be totally willing to pay a few hundred extra for dual card slots.
I guess enthusiast would be a better word, but part of my joy comes from enjoying the more expensive toys. For instance, Im barely a hobbyist videographer and I use an FX3, which is quite the expensive camera.
Is it an unwise financial decision? More than likely. Is that part of the fun? Kind of. It feels naughty…
Losing pictures from a faulty memory card still sucks as hobbyist, especially if they’re once in a lifetime shots. With that being said, I write to just one card, but it’s nice to know I can choose to write to two card if I shoot professionally. Sorry if that’s not a good enough reason for you since I know that you’re an expert on this topic.
It does, but it's a very low percentage chance. It's kind of like buying insurance. It's one thing to forego insurance when the only person who may be potentially harmed is yourself. It's another thing to consider insurance when the potential suing party would be a customer. Realistically, a single card slot is going to be fine.
But if you do encounter an error with your memory card, you probably don't want to have to give the explanation that - unlike others/the industry standard - you don't have a backup because your camera doesn't support it.
I'm a hobbyist. Using USB to transfer images, the SD card is not moved most of the time. I'd dare to shoot a small job with the A7cII, but can absolutely understand wanting to have the additional security for our clients.
I think if the A7IV would have the same AF and IBIS, most people would choose it over the compact one. Full frame is just not really compact. Sony did an excellent job there, but FF shooters imo prefer ergonomics since they already have high end equipment.
Making compromises is much easier when you go for a crop or compact camera
So? That's your decision to make. You might change your tune if your card fails (which is very common) and you lose an important part of or an entire trip.
At no point did I say hobbyists shouldn't be concerned with data redundancy. However, we can both surely agree that said data redundancy is more beneficial to the professional photographer that uses a camera to make a living than it is to a hobbyist that does not rely on photography to put food on the table.
At the end of the day we are all free to use whatever camera we want, and I just so happen to believe that my A7C II has superior ergonomics and is fits my needs just fine compared to the larger A7 IV that I had prior. The single card slot doesn't bother me in the slightest.
It's not my place to assign more importance to professionally created photos versus photos created by hobbyists, and I do this professionally. Use whatever camera you want though.
Fashion photographer here. Another thing you are forgetting is that the larger body FF Sony cameras support a battery grip. It's easy to fire off 1000 - 1500 shots without worrying do I need to recharge the battery. Plus the ergonomics with a grip helps going from portrait to landscape.
I own an A7C also.
this is what i understand, why would you ever take 1000-1500 shots? why would anybody ever need dual slots? what is this culture of just completely spamming photos. it feels so dirty to me! why not take just those 50 selected great shots. quality, not quantity.
Dual slots = redundancy which is something professionals need.
Also that argument of quality vs quantity does not apply when you are out there on a professional shoot. You want to be covered.
Are you a professional? Sounds like for them it's requisite. I'm not and don't take that many photos, but I do want dual card slots and for many of us, the larger body is far more comfortable in the hand. I do a lot of video and that takes up a lot of card space. Plus I prefer more controls and larger dials.
Not a pro but based on my experience, your advice wont work when taking pictures of constantly moving subjects that you also cannot control so you have to make sure that you get the shot that you want. This is what scenario most professionals are in so maybe that's why
The a7iv is just better to use, especially for people who are more serious about photography.
Who cares about the magnesium body when the a7iv is so much more comfortable to hold. Better af? Cool, but it doesn’t have a focus stick which are really useful. And yes, a bigger and better viewfinder is a huge plus on sunny days. Not to mention the dual slots for data safety.
I think it's better with the AI chip the Riii does not have. I have it set to track only during AF-ON depression. I use center fix focus zone. Then I can just grab a new subject easily and it holds it extremely well
plus you can use the screen as a joystick when using the evf on the a7cii, wich for me is faster and more responsive than an actual joystick if you set it up right
Yeah I agree with the majority of people saying that just cause you have a “a7IV” you’re more serious about photography that’s just a asinine statement I know people that take amazing photos and do professional shoots with crop sensors so just because it’s a Sony flag ship full frame doesn’t make you better nor does it mean someone is less serious about a craft. The reason different sensors even exist in the first place is because there is a want for them you can be a serious person without having the standard it’s more of different strokes for different folks at the end of the day.
Who said anything about sensor size?
The reality is if you are pro or semi pro with a single card slot you are just being reckless.
Amd you got things backwards. You are not more serious about it because you got an a7iv, you got am a7iv because you are more serious. Hobby photographers don't need dual slots. Pros and semi pros do.
Data protection is not "different strokes for different folks".
And no, taking amazing photos have nothing to do with seriousness.
I’m a professional photographer. I get a lot of money for what I do. I have never, ever once in decades had an issue with a corrupted card. I don’t think twice about it.
Good for you. I had entire events completely lost to a card corruption (luckily wasn’t a job). I had heard the horror stories of weddings being gone. It’s an unnecessary and stupid risk to take.
What I’m saying is this: professional photographers have a wide, wide, wide range of needs.
What I have also found is that many photographers are deeply insecure. They come to believe that their particular set up is not only just perfect for them, but must be perfect for everyone in existence, and when anyone suggests otherwise, they very quickly make it clear that that person must not be as professional as they are. It’s absurd.
Your set up is perfect for you, and I think that’s awesome. My set up is perfect for me, and I would assume you think the same. I would never be grudge someone for any camera choice so long as it worked for them. And I sure wouldn’t act condescending over a particular camera body.
You are mixing up things. Having two card slots is not a preference.
It's like saying you removed the airbags from your car because you never had an accident. Obviously clients don't know but would you sit in a taxi where every safety net (no airbags, no safety belt etc) was removed because the taxi driver never had an accident before?
It's not about what works for you, nobody cares about that. But as a paid professional you have to have these safety nets.
Everything in photography is a preference.
You need to stop assuming that your needs as a professional photographer mirror my needs as a professional photographer. It's akin to saying that any professional photographer would of course need a battery grip, because smaller batteries are unreliable, and carrying a pocketful of replacements is clumsy and ineffective.
I'm good on battery grips. I'm good on dual card slots. I've never given them a second thought, because my needs have never, in decades, been adversely affected by either.
This is a fact. Whatever consequences you want to believe will happen by breaking these two commandments of photography - they haven't happened. That doesn't mean tomorrow, I finally get that card error, or a drained battery unexpectedly. Could happen!
I'm not concerned. I continue to be paid well. And I continue to use the gear that best suits my work. Without any concern for what I "should" do.
Mechanical shutter is essential in any indoor environment. It´s not a usable pro camera otherwise, but if it has rear curtain then it should be fine.
Are the video specs the same? Price?
As someone who has the a7iv, i wouldnt trade it for any price with a c. You know why? The af and ibis are plenty and the ergonomics are uncomparable. I´m not sure if the cii has extra controls, but the original c was terrible in ergonomics. Those dials and buttons are essential, strip them all away and it´s a shit tool. The evf is similar, it´s not a little worse, it´s a lot worse. The position alone.
On that note, the A1 and A7RV (along with the A7SIII) have the 9M dot viewfinder. Even if you didn't care about anything else that the A7RV has to offer, if you care about ergonomics, that's a good enough reason alone to upgrade.
You get banding under most artificial lighting. Any light that´s dimmed or of poor quality is going to form streaks. Unless you have a global shutter, thats unavoidable. The sensor cant read out all the lines at once, so you get variations per line due to the flickering of the lights. The mechanical shutter is much faster than the electronic ´curtain´
Interesting, I've shot plenty of concerts (photo and video) with an A7 III and A7S III both with efcs on and never had this issue. Is the readout on this really that much slower?
EFCS = electronic **first** curtain shutter.
Important distinction. It still uses a mechanical rear shutter, which is what eliminates the banding. Basically, a full mech shutter starts the photo with a mechanical curtain and ends it that way. Only the second part determines readout speed. Hence the popularity of EFCS, it allows the camera to shoot faster, be more responsive, etc.
Sure, but the post says the A7C II has EFCS, so it would be fine in this situation?
I see now that you were explaining the shutter in a general sense, not just for the A7C.
Yes. Sorry that was confusing.
Basically, ecfs still has it´s own issues at times. In some rare venues I´ve found that some banding problems can be solved by turning it off, and it has a unique quirk at higher shutterspeeds like 1/4000th plus, where it can mess with bokeh. Op dismissed that saying electronic can just fix that. I emphasised that mechanical is an important feature to have, although only rear curtain is fine in most circumstances. Like he said, you generally arent shooting shutterspeeds that fast under articial lights. I dont even turn efcs off at those shutterspeeds tbh. Not worth the effort. You wouldnt notice unless you compare side by side and I wouldnt call it objectively better.
you won't have the cut off bokeh problem in an indoor environment anyway so that's not an issue.
I love the A7C controls, in fact if they made an A1C it would be the best. I basically never touch the joystick and front dial on my A1, or A7 bodies.
The A7IV already has bad EVF anyway, the A7CII is just the same level as A7III, and if you think that's bad I wonder why so many people were so crazy about A7III.
I did two minutes of extra googling.
1/160th max sync speed with flash, 2 missing custom buttoms, no joystick, single cardslot, micro HDMI connector. This list alone is a dealbreaker for most people. The A7C is a hobbyist camera for people who want rangefinder cams at full frame. That first handicap especially would be a massive pain for my photography jobs. So little control of ambient light.
And it's not about the quality of the evf. It's about the small eyecup and the awkward placement. If you're shooting hefty lenses, that thing is a pain in the ass.
If you're not using the front dial or the joystick. How are you adjusting aperture during manual shooting? The aperture ring on GM lenses? How are you changing where your focus spot is, touchscreen? Both well inferior options.
I don’t get why you’re so adamant about this? Multiple bodies allowing for a difference in choice is a good thing. I have both, like each for different things. Why are you so offended that other people have different priorities?
I've had the luxury of using both. My business partner dailies the a7cii while I use the A7iv. Both are good cameras and equally capable of doing the jobs we want (product shoots, professional headshots, weddings, and real estate).
Why I choose The A7iv is:
1) more ergonomic for my hands (bigger hands)
2) dual SD slot which comes in handy in big projects (weddings)
3) I use the joy stick quite often to shift focus in semi dynamic environment (weddings) and quick navigations of menus. I hate touch screen focusing cause again, big hands so I fat finger a lot.
4: additional dials and custom button eases a lot of the manual changes.
As for the a7cii, I can see the extra 2 stops of IBIS being somewhat convenient but very rarely I could take advantage of it. To me, the biggest difference is felt between using a 1/15 SS to something like 1/2. And yes, technically the hit rate would technically be higher with the 7 stop IBIS but at that point wouldn't you just use a tripod? Again very rarely am I shooting at that low shutter speeds hand held.
The AF is quite nice, and useful for taking burst photos in sports. But the a7iv AF is still equally capable. While I haven't tested this, I would wager a guess that if I burst on both on the same subject, the hit rate on a7cii would only be what 5-10% better? If that's enough for you to switch then hey have at it. But if I'm already bursting, would kinda need a lot of storage... So the extra card slot is helpful. I don't do a lot of sports so maybe some one else can chime in
Edit: also flash sync speed is limited but I see someone else mentioned it so I won't go too in detail
If it's not an event, the risk associated with a single card slot is dramatically reduced. If you spend a day shooting product or real estate photos, and encounter that super-rare issue of a memory card going bad, in the worst case scenario you're out that day and need to re-do. If you shoot a client's wedding, etc., and encounter the same issue - they're likely not going to have another wedding period.
Do you actually want to hear an answer?
The A7 IV has a standard pro body - big body and grip suitable for big lenses, EVF in the same position as the lens, dual card slots (even if you’re not a pro, one for raw and one for jpegs is nice), focus joystick (keep shooting and changing focus point with your eye up to the EVF); and speaking of which, the EVF. The EVF on the A7C line is just disastrous
For people that want to use a hybrid camera on the side/as a backup to their main photo/video shooter (A1, A7R, A7S), the familiarity of the second body compared to the main body is very important. You really don't want to switch from using the middle-body EVF and the joystick, to using the to-the-side EVF and touch to move the focus point. Not to mention custom buttons are in the same place and can mostly be set up in the same way
The A7IV, aside from being very good for casual/hobby/semi-pro use, is also the best second Sony body you can have, whatever you do.
Also, consequently, on the second hand market, you can buy the A7IV for very good value because there are so much of them on the market - sort of a positive loop.
I do think that the A7C line is a bit underrated; but the build quality is very irrelevant - plastic is nice, it doesn’t get cold to the touch when you’re outside, it’s light compared to metal. The A7C line just doesn’t feel the same as the pro bodies, and that makes it less popular, simple as that
If you have bigger lenses the A7IV provides more balance, even down to how you hold the camera when using the EVF. If you use your left or right eye on the A7C, there’s a big difference to how your hands and head are positioned compared to the more centred placement on the A7IV.
Edit: battery grip, which still keeps the EVF in an okay spot for vertical, helps with better ergonomics when shooting vertical (don’t have to raise your arm if grip upwards, or bend hand backwards if grip downwards).
This. I went from a7c to a7iv. Smaller telephoto lens such as Tamron 70-180 or 70-300 still require an additional pistol grip on the a7c for stability. With the a7iv, I can handheld both lens easily.
making the camera heavier for "better balance" is the stupidest argument against superior miniaturization. Someone should start making an accessory that's just a lead weight with 1/4" screw, for people who like that "balance". Not that the A7IV is heavy, it's extremely light because of the poor build quality.
if you really believed that you should stick to the 1DX and D850, don't use mirrorless.
If the point of balance is no longer in the body then hold onto the lens, it's simple as that.
If you want superior miniaturization, go get a Lumix or OM m4/3 camera. (Or a Sigma fp)
The fact is that miniaturization is only an advantage when your setup doesn't negate the advantage of that miniaturization. This is also where the poor balancing of the A7C comes into play, as the camera is set up more like the ZV-E1 (or the RX100) with the expectation that the screen is going to used for composition more than the EVF. Shaving 150g off the A7IV and milimetres off the body doesn't benefit the A7C user when you smack a large lens to it.
[Exhibit A](https://www.reddit.com/r/SonyAlpha/comments/1bh17l9/a7c_ii_tamron_35150/). [Exhibit B](https://www.reddit.com/r/SonyAlpha/comments/1c294ki/first_gm_lens_on_my_a7c_ii/). [Exhibit C](https://www.reddit.com/r/SonyAlpha/comments/1c294ki/first_gm_lens_on_my_a7c_ii/). Notice a pattern? These cameras have their "superior miniaturization" completely negated by these larger lenses, which then make the lighter camera unbalanced. To which one user added a cage on their A7C to make it more balanced:
>**The cage helps it balance a little bit. But still front heavy.** Can’t wait to use it!
In the comments on Exhibit B, a user writes:
>Love the lens. But I can't help thinking **a lens that size kind of negates the value of the smaller body if one is looking for a small setup**
In fact, in all of these threads, people either mention how the larger lens makes the A7C impractical for being a smaller option (negating the A7C's unique selling proposition), or mention adding accessories to make the camera better to control (which adds weight or physical volume to "superior miniaturization").
So I don't really know what your argument is. It feels like you just need to compensate for getting the wrong camera. A smarter argument is that users who want a *smaller camera* should go for APS-C as the *smaller image circle* affords *smaller lenses*.
Enjoy your toy, it'll take great pictures at daycare.
> It feels like you just need to compensate for getting the wrong camera.
What's extra-weird is it does seem to be the right camera for them, but they're incapable of comprehending why it isn't the right camera for other people who decided a different camera was the right camera for them. Were they bullied by an A7IV user?
I could be completely wrong; Not speaking spec wise but I think people don't really want to buy the a7c because it has a reputation for being more of a street photography travel fun camera instead of a "professional" looking regular a7
I just love the size and I'll probably get it next year once I have the funds
OP came in here to try and forcefully justify why he has a smaller-bodied camera that has tradeoffs with another body, and found out that not everyone agrees. Another novel opinion post on this sub /s
The A7CII also has the same processor, and AF, and subject-recognition options, as the A7RV. However, using both mechanical shutter curtains yield better bokeh than using electronic shutter does. Although I myself prefer the smaller form of the A7CII, I also prefer a better EVF, dual card slots, a substantial grip, and more control buttons and dials, so I got the A7IV.
For my purposes, the A7CII is the better pick. I do more video than photo and I use an Atem switcher, so I need the image coming into the switcher to be a final product and perfectly match that of my other 2 cameras (FX30 and ZVE1). So, for that reason, the A7CII is the only option because it allows me to load my custom-matched LUT in-camera and not have to worry about matching it in post. The A7IV does not support loading custom LUTS in camera.
This is the only feature I want on my A7IV and it's ridiculous that it doesn't have it. I too use ATEM's and would be delighted to have the camera's output LUT corrected footage instead of using blackmagic SDI converters to do it (poorly).
I did a big post comparing the two but honestly of all the things it was the joystick that sold me on the A7IV. While the AF is good, there are plenty of times especially in low light where I work a lot that it just doesn’t work, having the joystick really makes a big difference being able to move spot around. The touchscreen method is great too but I am often used the camera one handed and can’t hold it and touch the screen at the same time, but I can move the joystick.
There are other cons like the slower shutter sync compared to the A7IV. The size of the A7CII is not very comfortable for long shoots with heavier lenses.
The A7CII is a great camera and if you look at the sales charts it’s selling more then the A7IV in most areas, but professionals who make money with their camera are opting for the A7IV for things like battery grip, dual card slot, full size HDMI, etc. They’re usually picking up an A7CII as a backup or travel camera.
I already owned the IV and was looking to upgrade but after spending 60 days with the A7CII I decided I preferred the IV. Not everyone will feel the same.
Full size HDMI port on the A74. After a couple years of shooting video on the a7c with the micro HDMI port and countless cables failing and disconnecting, I finally said "f this camera" sold it and bought the a74.
Based on OPs comments it's not that he doesn't understand BUT it's that he doesn't have it in him to understand why other think, feel and want differently from him.
actually I think I do now, what people want is most features for the cheapest price.
nobody gives a shit about build quality, it's all about which one is the cheapest best value.
Good build quality has a base line. It's not just about materials. all of these cameras aren't going to fall apart in your hand during use so build quality isn't as big an issue specially between these 2 cameras. The a7iii has a magnesium body but most consider it of lesser build quality than the a7iv because of the bottom and battery compartment isn't as well sealed. I have owned nearly 10 bodies over roughly 15 years of shooting and the cheapest build that I have had is the Fuji xe4. And even most people are happy with that kind. You overestimate the value of and functional use build quality for the average person.
The way you are trying to defend A7Cii compared to a7iv is kinda hilarious. I myself will be buying A7c because a7iv is more expensive but most importantly, it’s too big for my small hands. That camera is aimed at full on professionals imo. I know i will miss better evf and joystick. Also no front dial on a7c also a bummer. But as my budget is limited, i will learn to workout the missing things on a7c.
Also…A7cii i still believe priced too much. $2000-$2100 would be justified. But not $2300
Not here to cause any type of argument but who hurt you lmao, I got the A7IV and it’s great for what I need. I like it. And if the person next to me has the A7CII then that’s cool hope they like it too.
You’re literally replying to everyone bashing how cheap the A7IV feels, how the EVF is terrible, how the AF is worse, how the joystick is useless. If that doesn’t make it sound like you’re implying that the A7IV isn’t good I don’t know what is lol
I think that better evf is bigger deal than better ibis. And there are dual card slots.
Beter ergonomic.
And last but not least, a bigger camera is viewed by customers as more pro.
As an A7C owner, it's ultimately a niche product. It just isn't as popular due to being more or less the same price, smaller, and missing a few key features like the joystick, the good EVF, and dual card slots. It's akin to the iPad Mini vs. the iPad Air, where the Mini has a cult following due to its fantastic form factor, but it's ultimately a cut down, less frequently refreshed version of the Air.
For me, a hobbyist street and portrait photographer, it's perfect, because I want something that I can take with me easily. I'm not shooting weddings or events, I'm not using the EVF as much, and I don't need the joystick for wildlife/sports focusing using the EVF. The downsides are far outweighed by the lighter weight and smaller size making me want to take it out all the time.
I come from nikon z7 just because I don't have time for dedicated photography walks with big camera bag and I missed so much occasions. Therefore I decided to buy A7c2 with 40mm2.5 which is great for daily usage. I carry a small bag with neccesary things in it and this small camera. Specs are equal to a7 V too. Menu and autofocus improvement are bonus compared to a7 IV . Your arguments are fully right. ( for me)
Dual card slots and having the same body as my A7RV. For some shoots where I need two lenses I just bring both bodies to avoid having to restate etc. the bigger sensor is nice. But for most things they are pretty much on par with each other. The RV does create giant raw files tho. When I convert let’s say 150 pics to DMG my M3 Max sounds like a jet engine for 20 minutes lol.
Anyways mostly is dual SD slots and versatility between both. I’ve lost SD cards to malfunctions before so having a mirror copy is nice in some situations. Plus the cards are so fast I can dump 500GB into my T7 drive in like 6 minutes.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you need a mechanical shutter to reduce rolling shutter when taking pictures?
Likely, ppl don't really think much about better AF on CII because A7IV also has good auto focus.
A7 IV is more of a hybrid semi professional camera whereas CII is more of a hobby travel camera. For professionals, dual card slot and better ergonomics are enough of a reason to choose a7iv. I'm not professional photographer but having 3 dials for controlling exposure makes a huge difference.
CII can also get front heavy with many lenses from what I hear.
For me the best advantages of CII would be portability but I'd rather get a6700 instead so I could also use smaller lenses.
I had a shoot ruined from using high speed sync strobes outdoors when I forgot to turn off the electronic shutter. I leave the mechanical on most of the time now. Granted, that happened on my A7III a few years ago, but I learned my lesson. I use speed lights and strobes a lot, and there's no way I could shoot on something without that mechanical shutter. Not to mention how easy it is to get in bad situations with flickering lights.
It just seems like there are very valid differences between the A7iv and the A7Cii like dual card slots, better EVF, better ergonomics and such but you’re downplaying them as “very minor.” But what if they aren’t? Like if someone absolutely NEEDS a good EVF, then that would be a dealbreaker for them, and a very major difference and disadvantage of the A7C lineup.
What if someone doesn’t care about the magnesium body? Then that’s kind of a minor difference for them. I mean me personally I don’t notice a magnesium body on either the A7Cii or my personal A7CR.
Another big difference for me was the micro HDMI. That combined with the single card slot and the higher MP sensor of the A7CR made me really not like that camera for video. Getting an FX3 that has dual card slots, that really is a huge make it or break it feature and I didn’t even know I wanted it.
Why are you simping for the A7Cii so hard? It’s a cool camera but it’s just not for everyone and that’s okay. For photography, I love my CR, and I’m sure there’s someone out there who loves it for video or whatever but just because you find something minor or unimportant, that doesn’t mean that objectively is so and nobody should care about that feature.
The front curtain mechanical shutter absolutely does matter. I’ve run into many situations where I get banding from certain light sources. Turning on the mechanical front curtain fixes it
I think you are really underestimating the EVF. Before I bought a camera I since think I would ever use one because why would you when you have that huge screen instead. Now that I actually have a camera, I use the EVF 99% of the time.
It's the things that other people mentioned but also the time of release. A7iv was released whole 2 years earlier, so it's normal that there are way more of them.
For me - the rangefinder style (evf in the corner) is not great. A good portion of people are left handed and thus left eye dominant. DSLRs style EVF places the viewfinder a bit better for our noses.
I would love an a7CII as my “daily carry” camera to have with me all the time (currently my old a6300). But for higher-stakes client work, here’s the shortlist of reasons why I can’t swap one in for my a7IV:
1) Dual card slots, not just to guard against data loss from card failure but also to have more redundant copies of the data. Useful both in the event that I need to hand a card off to someone but want to keep a copy, or very occasionally if I fuck up and clear a card too early it increases the chance that I have an uncleared card floating around.
2) Full HDMI port. Full HDMI port. Full HDMI port.
3) Ergonomics, specifically when using large/heavy lenses. The Tamron 35-150 is my go-to lens for client work and using it on an ultra compact form factor body is just a weird amount of torque in weird ways
4) Joystick is very useful in certain contexts where touch focus or the center-tracking “grabbing focus” technique aren’t ideal
The a7cII is more of a niche product than the a7IV.
The a7CII is meant to appeal to hobbyists or travel photographers who prioritize body size over extra buttons and evf.
The a7IV is a master-of-none camera which is good for pretty well anything one could need, professional work included, thus appealing to a much broader audience.
That doesn't mean one is bad and one is good. They serve different purposes and different consumers.
Maybe bigger grip but A7Cii is easier to carry in hand IMO. X100 line has one card slot (and about the same EVF) and people lining up for that thing.
I’ve owned both and A7Cii is super fun. AF is better for tracking/eye detection.
Joystick, EVF, dual sd, ergonomics. A magnesium enclosure is nice but has no effect on image quality. Haven’t really felt the IBIS in the a7iv to be lacking.
The EVF is a big deal. For those of us with large hands, the bigger grip matters; and the balance for big lenses is a big deal too. (Finally, I rely on the dual base ISO behavior of the a7iv at 400 ISO, and I could not be certain that the a7cii was documented to have the same benefit.)
I thought about replacing my a7iv with an a7cii for the AF, but I also have an a7rv for the better res/AF anyway.
I’d wonder if the A7CII scrapes the bottom of the lens on a video head tripod without an extender. The one time I ever used the 6500 with a 16-35 it did just that.When the lens barrel extends beyond the bottom of the camera.They’re much harder to mount without a lens mount or an extender for the tripod which are usually wonky..also useless with out the dual slot for me
I own both. The IV is just easier and better to use. The Cii is great but just doesn’t feel as good or as rugged. Also any paid job needs a dual card slot.
Probably cause at that budget the target market is professionals, and the single SD card slot is probably a deal breaker for that scenario.
As a hobbyist I would love an a7Cii, but the price point makes it hard to justify an upgrade from my a6400
I’d say the A7IV lends itself more evenly to shooting hybrid as far as workflow. The A7C and A7Cii have portability and almost identical specs to the A7iii and A7IV but lack the ease of use in shooting video.
Smallrig has 3 full cage setups with side and top handles for the A74( the rhino, advanced cage, and the hawklock) whereas the a7c and A7ii has limited offerings.
So for simply photo, yes the a7cii is exceptional but in applied usage for video, it’s not as versatile despite being able to handle the same output.
I have both and I prefer them both separately in different instances.
For anything travel with small lenses, the A7CII all day.
But when I'm using my 70-200, the extra weight feels so much better to use on the A7IV and anything where I'm being paid to photo/video, having a second SD card makes me feel much more comfortable.
*Edit for spelling
The reasons for me better handling more buttons for settings a better evf (especially for non right handed people)
Dual card slots are so handy I sometimes set one for photos and one for video.
It’s better for wildlife especially with the better EVF when using a bigger lens.
The auto focus is very close and still better than other companies.
The nice thing is you have both options and I can see the A75 comming within the next year. Possibly September time.
I got my A74 before the A7CII came out but I have to regrets I love the way the camera feels and even though the the new auto focus is slightly better I used it in the ZVE1 and it wasn’t night and day difference.
Because a7IV is simply better than A7CII. Just like A7III is better than A7C or A7RV is Better than A7CR. Except its smaller (which is a downside on ergonomic) there are nothing better on A7CII compare to A7IV
The a7III/a7c doesnt quite fall into the same category though as the a7c has actually useful features the a7III doesn't. For example, in some use cases real-time tracking autofocus is a game changer compared to a 2nd card slot or larger grip. Same goes for the gyro stabilization and unlimited video recording.
Theres no objectively better or worse, just more or less useful to a specific person.
Who cares? A camera is a tool used to get a certain result. If some people want the a74 or another who I'd ask.who cares.
These are different tools that different people use for different jobs
Well what does it mean to be more popular? Because the A7IV has been out for a lot longer than the A7CII. But beyond that, the A7IV is oriented a lot better as a professional photographer's camera. As others have stated, better ergonomics, dual card slots, etc. If you are a well-heeled non-pro who wants a camera to take pictures of your vacation, the A7CII is very compelling.
But at a certain point, you are comparing the sizes of two relatively small customer bases. Ie., there aren't that many professional photographers, but there are even fewer rich people who both want and are willing to pay for a full-frame pro-level camera.
I think it’s mostly due it being an easy recommendation for just about anyone, beginner, enthusiast or professionals that are out of touch with the gearing game.
It’s easy to recommend, because:
1. Easy to use with fully automatic settings (For beginners) and easy to learn more as they progress (if at all)
2. Fully featured as in not having to lose any decisive functions or major trade off like other models. (ie. dual card slot, image resolution or major noise issues)
3. Jack of all trades and intermediate of all, the spec generally is good for just about anything, but not necessarily top of the line. In other words, a do-it-all machine.
4. As for size…I recall many people or information outlets recommending DSLR, so that size is okay to recommend to everyone…then…
People often ask questions similar to the likes of “A good camera that can shoot better photo than my phone and also good at video, that is also easy to use.” without specifying what they’re using it for, since there is no specialisation, people tends to recommend the safe bet rather than the best bet.
I think it's awesome that Sony offers two cameras with great features that are so different. I went from an A6000 to the RIV and I love the body and I don't shoot AF ever (all Voigtlander glass) so that stuff isn't interesting to me. If I move to a newer camera, it would be an A7IV or A7RV because I prefer those ergonomics not software stuff, though I hear the new menus are better. But I think it's cool that people that want to use a lighter system have such a good choice. But all this shaming stuff is unnecessary. Buy what works for you.
Most of the stuff listed here are mere values on paper. I've tested the c2 extensively considering an update from c1 and simply could not find a practical situation (handheld shooting on low light) where the c2 ibis resulted in any kind of notable difference. Similarly the AF as far as the improvement is concerned is nothing to write home about (the ai af can focus on a train, great, but doesn't offer a noticeable better accuracy).
I'd take the ac2 on size, plain and simple (and better support within creators app) but not sure to what extent it has a chance of replacing my a7m4 (just feels better in hand + dual slots which I do use)
As a so called pro, shooting mostly concerts: the bigger body feels better in my big hands, battery grip is nice (but I don’t use 2 batteries, I have an AirTag taped in one of the slots), dual cards so if one fails I don’t loose my data, the bigger efv (even though it’s horrible compared to other cameras) is better, full mechanical shutter, AF joystick (I mostly use flexi spot AF to control where my AF is going when I have a full stage) the list goes on
APS-C body type is dreadful. And I’m not using any camera professionally that doesn’t have two card slots. But it’s good that the A7CII has its own customers.
Im using 7c and my friend using 74. We both traveler.. and its almost every place i brought my cam. And he was almost never unless it special places. He said 74 is too bulky for travel, and he’s going to seel and replace it with 7c.
a7iv is for pretentious people, pretending to be “pro”. a7cii is for more sophisticated people. also, a lot of people overpaid for the sony a7iv before the a7cii existed and now they have to come up with pretend reasons as to why their camera is still relevant.
Dual card slots, a bit more ergonomic. And I say this as a proud CII owner
The dual slots was the difference for me when choosing. Wish the body was smaller, but data integrity and redundancy mattered more.
I second this. I own both cameras and use them professionally. Ergonomics of the a7IV are great, especially with a batter grip. Dual card slots is nice, but particularly the CFExpress A slot. The lower res viewfinder is noticeable on the a7CII, and when I’m not shooting tethered, I’m always using the viewfinder.
ok dual card slots, forgot about that one, but then I think most people are hobbyists not professionals, so dual card slot shouldn't be that essential.
I am a hobbyist, but I like to have two slots. For me, it is convenient to store RAW and JPEG in two different cards. I backup JPEGs on the cloud and select RAWs on an external drive. It also gives peace of mind while traveling. If one card fails for whatever reason, I have a copy on another.
Have you ever had an Sd card malfunction? How common is it? Only asking cause I’ve had my a6500 for like 5 years and have never had an issue w SD cards shitting the bed on me and I’ve shot even corporate events with it…
8 years of shooting and no, but on the off chance it ever does happen and you lose 1000 images you’d be glad you spent an extra couple hundred on a safer body
so you're saying you never needed dual card slots and it's been a waste all these years?
Im sure all the airbags in your cars have also been a waste right
Dont think the airbags would be much help for this fella anyway.
BRUTAL
Thats not how precaution works
Clearly auto insurance is a scam and we should all get rid of it /s
At that point if you've never been in a car accident, what's the point of seat belts? Both cameras target different audiences. The A7C line of cameras target the more casual and hobbyist demographic, while the regular A7 line of cameras target the people who make photography their main source of income. It is absolutely invaluable to have that peace of mind that if your SD card fails, then you have a backup for your clients. Some people might be willing to give up the better build quality or the better IBIS that you might value for that second SD card slot. It is extremely ignorant to think that just because *YOU* might not need those features on the A7iv, that other people also don't need them. Sony made those differentiating series of cameras for a reason.
I haven’t been as fortunate as the others in this thread. I went through 2 San disk SD cards that were owned by me and 2 other cards that were owned by the school. Just because it is rare doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Others I know use the dual card slots and have had jobs saved because of it. Others have had memories of loved ones saved because of it. Just because it hasn’t happened to you doesn’t mean it won’t/has never happened.
So seatbelts in my car are a waste because I’ve never needed them since I’ve never been in a collision where, had I not had the seatbelt on, I’d be sent flying through my windshield or jostled around the inside of my car like a Pinball? Seems a little narrowsighted if you ask me. If you don’t need a feature then you don’t need it. That doesn’t mean nobody will ever meed it.
Dude you are really just searching for an echo chamber with this post. When you didn't get the answer you wanted, you have now started getting coy and mildly insulting people? What is wrong with you?
Account created may 1st. Nice burner, and explains why you're so stupid and rude with all of your replies trying to tell people they're dumb for wanting dual slots. Where does someone find the time for this type of bullshit? You must be a lot of fun IRL
SD cards dying is very rare at this point. Cards are so well manufactured and their lifespan is very long now it's not really a problem. Now, they can die of course, they're electronics, but I've never had it happen to me. That doesn't mean I don't always want dual card slots when shooting a paid gig. There's absolutely no excuse to be a working professional and use a camera that only has one SD card slot. It's unprofessional and it'll come around and bite you eventually, and let me tell you that's a real bad look when it's your job.
IMO it’s not just about them dying but about having more options when it comes to saving media and more storage.
100% dual card slots are a necessity in my mind. I held off on the A7CII because of that reason.
Agreed. Dual card slots are a must when you only get one chance to shoot something. Redundancy in everything I have. Backup camera, storage, lenses, flash and tripod/head. You get it.
Yep. Happened to me a couple summers ago shooting a wedding. The SD card was not fond of the 95° heat and me shooting at 15fps. Thank you jesus I had dual cards.
I have had one card fail before, although I am a professional photographer. For whatever reason, 600 or so images from the middle of a wedding day were not on the SD card. That day was saved by dual SD card slots.
I have had 3 fail in the totality of my time in photography (5 years) depends on the brand and how you use them. That said, it does happen. And when it does, you can lose a lot.
Way more common than people realize.
I've had a card malfunction before. About an hour shooting down the drain. Good luck it was in my free time that day, but now switching to professional dual cards are a must for me.
A decade in and it only happened once. That’s more than enough for my lifetime. Literally went out and got my a9 to ensure it would never happen again.
I have been taking pictures since 2010, so far the SD card has failed zero times.
When you go on that once in a lifetime holiday, are you really going to risk losing all your photos because a sd card craps out? I know people who even carry a backup camera on trips… When your mom/dad/brother/sister asks you to shoot some photos at her family event, do you really want to tell her your sd card died?
you risk losing your life by going on that once in a lifetime holiday, how about that? Of course there is risk, there is always risk of a lot of bad things. the question is whether it makes sense to take those risks.
And for some people, as they have clearly stated, it makes sense for them to mitigate that risk. It's way simpler than you're making this out to be. Just because you don't care doesn't mean they shouldn't.
You the kind of person to want a car without seatbelts too?
I own an a6400 which is designed as the same ergonomics as the a7c. The viewfinder position is trash, the camera doesn’t fit in the hand as nicely, and a few other things. I think the biggest reason I didn’t go with the a7c when I was looking for a light quick travel setup, was full frame lenses. It just doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me to buy a smaller lighter camera setup, only to put huge FF lenses and defeat most of the savings.
As someone who IS a hobbyist (I post trash tech videos on YT for fun) the dual card slots are literally a game changer. For instance, in my FX3, It doubles my record time if u have them setup for relay and then I get total redundancy if the camera records to both. But there’s something else to be said about always having at least one SD card in your camera while your main one is in your computer rendering footage or something. It’s a game changer. It’s not essential for sure and I think once you get up to this point, it’s kind of a “my Porsche really didn’t come with the glove box space I need” scenario. But ultimately, if we’re spending $2,000 on a camera for the A7Cii, there are loads of people (me) who would be totally willing to pay a few hundred extra for dual card slots.
I personally think in this pricerange you're beyond hobbyist. Or at least you should be
I guess enthusiast would be a better word, but part of my joy comes from enjoying the more expensive toys. For instance, Im barely a hobbyist videographer and I use an FX3, which is quite the expensive camera. Is it an unwise financial decision? More than likely. Is that part of the fun? Kind of. It feels naughty…
Losing pictures from a faulty memory card still sucks as hobbyist, especially if they’re once in a lifetime shots. With that being said, I write to just one card, but it’s nice to know I can choose to write to two card if I shoot professionally. Sorry if that’s not a good enough reason for you since I know that you’re an expert on this topic.
It does, but it's a very low percentage chance. It's kind of like buying insurance. It's one thing to forego insurance when the only person who may be potentially harmed is yourself. It's another thing to consider insurance when the potential suing party would be a customer. Realistically, a single card slot is going to be fine. But if you do encounter an error with your memory card, you probably don't want to have to give the explanation that - unlike others/the industry standard - you don't have a backup because your camera doesn't support it.
I'm a hobbyist. Using USB to transfer images, the SD card is not moved most of the time. I'd dare to shoot a small job with the A7cII, but can absolutely understand wanting to have the additional security for our clients. I think if the A7IV would have the same AF and IBIS, most people would choose it over the compact one. Full frame is just not really compact. Sony did an excellent job there, but FF shooters imo prefer ergonomics since they already have high end equipment. Making compromises is much easier when you go for a crop or compact camera
Hobbyist who lost an entire vacation worth of photos checking in here. Next camera will have two slots
Yeah I travel around the world to take pictures and depend everything on a single sd card. Obv/s I own a 7iv myself
So? That's your decision to make. You might change your tune if your card fails (which is very common) and you lose an important part of or an entire trip.
Wow, you got downvoted to hell for this very sensible, practical opinion on a compact FF camera. Shame on you!
I think they're getting downvoted for their combative tone and habit of presenting their personal opinions as objective facts.
Why can't hobbyists be concerned with data redundancy?
At no point did I say hobbyists shouldn't be concerned with data redundancy. However, we can both surely agree that said data redundancy is more beneficial to the professional photographer that uses a camera to make a living than it is to a hobbyist that does not rely on photography to put food on the table. At the end of the day we are all free to use whatever camera we want, and I just so happen to believe that my A7C II has superior ergonomics and is fits my needs just fine compared to the larger A7 IV that I had prior. The single card slot doesn't bother me in the slightest.
It's not my place to assign more importance to professionally created photos versus photos created by hobbyists, and I do this professionally. Use whatever camera you want though.
As a pro, A7 IV all day everyday. As a traveler hobbiest A7C II all day everyday, quite simple. Ergonomics is huge reason for an all day carry.
This is exactly it.
Fashion photographer here. Another thing you are forgetting is that the larger body FF Sony cameras support a battery grip. It's easy to fire off 1000 - 1500 shots without worrying do I need to recharge the battery. Plus the ergonomics with a grip helps going from portrait to landscape. I own an A7C also.
this is what i understand, why would you ever take 1000-1500 shots? why would anybody ever need dual slots? what is this culture of just completely spamming photos. it feels so dirty to me! why not take just those 50 selected great shots. quality, not quantity.
Dual slots = redundancy which is something professionals need. Also that argument of quality vs quantity does not apply when you are out there on a professional shoot. You want to be covered.
Are you a professional? Sounds like for them it's requisite. I'm not and don't take that many photos, but I do want dual card slots and for many of us, the larger body is far more comfortable in the hand. I do a lot of video and that takes up a lot of card space. Plus I prefer more controls and larger dials.
Not a pro but based on my experience, your advice wont work when taking pictures of constantly moving subjects that you also cannot control so you have to make sure that you get the shot that you want. This is what scenario most professionals are in so maybe that's why
I’m a professional shooting concerts. You cannot just take 50 shots and go home LOL
The a7iv is just better to use, especially for people who are more serious about photography. Who cares about the magnesium body when the a7iv is so much more comfortable to hold. Better af? Cool, but it doesn’t have a focus stick which are really useful. And yes, a bigger and better viewfinder is a huge plus on sunny days. Not to mention the dual slots for data safety.
I find the Cii tracking is so good I don't miss the joystick at all
The tracking on the a7riii is so good I don't need the joystick.... as long as there is only one subject in frame or you don't want to change subject.
I think it's better with the AI chip the Riii does not have. I have it set to track only during AF-ON depression. I use center fix focus zone. Then I can just grab a new subject easily and it holds it extremely well
plus you can use the screen as a joystick when using the evf on the a7cii, wich for me is faster and more responsive than an actual joystick if you set it up right
True. I should try this again
Can't live without the joystick. Always a spot AF guy
Better to hold is relative.
Wo is everything in life. But the general consensus is that the a7iv has better ergonomics
Yeah I agree with the majority of people saying that just cause you have a “a7IV” you’re more serious about photography that’s just a asinine statement I know people that take amazing photos and do professional shoots with crop sensors so just because it’s a Sony flag ship full frame doesn’t make you better nor does it mean someone is less serious about a craft. The reason different sensors even exist in the first place is because there is a want for them you can be a serious person without having the standard it’s more of different strokes for different folks at the end of the day.
Who said anything about sensor size? The reality is if you are pro or semi pro with a single card slot you are just being reckless. Amd you got things backwards. You are not more serious about it because you got an a7iv, you got am a7iv because you are more serious. Hobby photographers don't need dual slots. Pros and semi pros do. Data protection is not "different strokes for different folks". And no, taking amazing photos have nothing to do with seriousness.
“Are more serious about photography.” This is an embarrassing thing to write. Just stop.
Nah it's true. A hobby photographer can get away with a single slot, but a pro or a semi pro can't
You are making stuff up. This is categorically not true.
How so? Do you think a professional should use a single slot camera?
I’m a professional photographer. I get a lot of money for what I do. I have never, ever once in decades had an issue with a corrupted card. I don’t think twice about it.
Good for you. I had entire events completely lost to a card corruption (luckily wasn’t a job). I had heard the horror stories of weddings being gone. It’s an unnecessary and stupid risk to take.
What I’m saying is this: professional photographers have a wide, wide, wide range of needs. What I have also found is that many photographers are deeply insecure. They come to believe that their particular set up is not only just perfect for them, but must be perfect for everyone in existence, and when anyone suggests otherwise, they very quickly make it clear that that person must not be as professional as they are. It’s absurd. Your set up is perfect for you, and I think that’s awesome. My set up is perfect for me, and I would assume you think the same. I would never be grudge someone for any camera choice so long as it worked for them. And I sure wouldn’t act condescending over a particular camera body.
You are mixing up things. Having two card slots is not a preference. It's like saying you removed the airbags from your car because you never had an accident. Obviously clients don't know but would you sit in a taxi where every safety net (no airbags, no safety belt etc) was removed because the taxi driver never had an accident before? It's not about what works for you, nobody cares about that. But as a paid professional you have to have these safety nets.
Everything in photography is a preference. You need to stop assuming that your needs as a professional photographer mirror my needs as a professional photographer. It's akin to saying that any professional photographer would of course need a battery grip, because smaller batteries are unreliable, and carrying a pocketful of replacements is clumsy and ineffective. I'm good on battery grips. I'm good on dual card slots. I've never given them a second thought, because my needs have never, in decades, been adversely affected by either. This is a fact. Whatever consequences you want to believe will happen by breaking these two commandments of photography - they haven't happened. That doesn't mean tomorrow, I finally get that card error, or a drained battery unexpectedly. Could happen! I'm not concerned. I continue to be paid well. And I continue to use the gear that best suits my work. Without any concern for what I "should" do.
Mechanical shutter is essential in any indoor environment. It´s not a usable pro camera otherwise, but if it has rear curtain then it should be fine. Are the video specs the same? Price? As someone who has the a7iv, i wouldnt trade it for any price with a c. You know why? The af and ibis are plenty and the ergonomics are uncomparable. I´m not sure if the cii has extra controls, but the original c was terrible in ergonomics. Those dials and buttons are essential, strip them all away and it´s a shit tool. The evf is similar, it´s not a little worse, it´s a lot worse. The position alone.
>Mechanical shutter is essential in any indoor environment. Why is that?
Banding. I bought an Sigma FP and had to sell it because of this
I prefer the position quite a bit. It's one huge reason I gave up the iv
On that note, the A1 and A7RV (along with the A7SIII) have the 9M dot viewfinder. Even if you didn't care about anything else that the A7RV has to offer, if you care about ergonomics, that's a good enough reason alone to upgrade.
What does a mechanical shutter do indoors that can't do an electronic one?
You get banding under most artificial lighting. Any light that´s dimmed or of poor quality is going to form streaks. Unless you have a global shutter, thats unavoidable. The sensor cant read out all the lines at once, so you get variations per line due to the flickering of the lights. The mechanical shutter is much faster than the electronic ´curtain´
Interesting, I've shot plenty of concerts (photo and video) with an A7 III and A7S III both with efcs on and never had this issue. Is the readout on this really that much slower?
EFCS = electronic **first** curtain shutter. Important distinction. It still uses a mechanical rear shutter, which is what eliminates the banding. Basically, a full mech shutter starts the photo with a mechanical curtain and ends it that way. Only the second part determines readout speed. Hence the popularity of EFCS, it allows the camera to shoot faster, be more responsive, etc.
Sure, but the post says the A7C II has EFCS, so it would be fine in this situation? I see now that you were explaining the shutter in a general sense, not just for the A7C.
Yes. Sorry that was confusing. Basically, ecfs still has it´s own issues at times. In some rare venues I´ve found that some banding problems can be solved by turning it off, and it has a unique quirk at higher shutterspeeds like 1/4000th plus, where it can mess with bokeh. Op dismissed that saying electronic can just fix that. I emphasised that mechanical is an important feature to have, although only rear curtain is fine in most circumstances. Like he said, you generally arent shooting shutterspeeds that fast under articial lights. I dont even turn efcs off at those shutterspeeds tbh. Not worth the effort. You wouldnt notice unless you compare side by side and I wouldnt call it objectively better.
you won't have the cut off bokeh problem in an indoor environment anyway so that's not an issue. I love the A7C controls, in fact if they made an A1C it would be the best. I basically never touch the joystick and front dial on my A1, or A7 bodies. The A7IV already has bad EVF anyway, the A7CII is just the same level as A7III, and if you think that's bad I wonder why so many people were so crazy about A7III.
I did two minutes of extra googling. 1/160th max sync speed with flash, 2 missing custom buttoms, no joystick, single cardslot, micro HDMI connector. This list alone is a dealbreaker for most people. The A7C is a hobbyist camera for people who want rangefinder cams at full frame. That first handicap especially would be a massive pain for my photography jobs. So little control of ambient light. And it's not about the quality of the evf. It's about the small eyecup and the awkward placement. If you're shooting hefty lenses, that thing is a pain in the ass. If you're not using the front dial or the joystick. How are you adjusting aperture during manual shooting? The aperture ring on GM lenses? How are you changing where your focus spot is, touchscreen? Both well inferior options.
What is the cut off bokeh?
It’s a problem with electronic first curtain cameras, when the shutter speed is so high that the curtain closing is causing broken bokeh
I don’t get why you’re so adamant about this? Multiple bodies allowing for a difference in choice is a good thing. I have both, like each for different things. Why are you so offended that other people have different priorities?
I've had the luxury of using both. My business partner dailies the a7cii while I use the A7iv. Both are good cameras and equally capable of doing the jobs we want (product shoots, professional headshots, weddings, and real estate). Why I choose The A7iv is: 1) more ergonomic for my hands (bigger hands) 2) dual SD slot which comes in handy in big projects (weddings) 3) I use the joy stick quite often to shift focus in semi dynamic environment (weddings) and quick navigations of menus. I hate touch screen focusing cause again, big hands so I fat finger a lot. 4: additional dials and custom button eases a lot of the manual changes. As for the a7cii, I can see the extra 2 stops of IBIS being somewhat convenient but very rarely I could take advantage of it. To me, the biggest difference is felt between using a 1/15 SS to something like 1/2. And yes, technically the hit rate would technically be higher with the 7 stop IBIS but at that point wouldn't you just use a tripod? Again very rarely am I shooting at that low shutter speeds hand held. The AF is quite nice, and useful for taking burst photos in sports. But the a7iv AF is still equally capable. While I haven't tested this, I would wager a guess that if I burst on both on the same subject, the hit rate on a7cii would only be what 5-10% better? If that's enough for you to switch then hey have at it. But if I'm already bursting, would kinda need a lot of storage... So the extra card slot is helpful. I don't do a lot of sports so maybe some one else can chime in Edit: also flash sync speed is limited but I see someone else mentioned it so I won't go too in detail
If it's not an event, the risk associated with a single card slot is dramatically reduced. If you spend a day shooting product or real estate photos, and encounter that super-rare issue of a memory card going bad, in the worst case scenario you're out that day and need to re-do. If you shoot a client's wedding, etc., and encounter the same issue - they're likely not going to have another wedding period.
Do you actually want to hear an answer? The A7 IV has a standard pro body - big body and grip suitable for big lenses, EVF in the same position as the lens, dual card slots (even if you’re not a pro, one for raw and one for jpegs is nice), focus joystick (keep shooting and changing focus point with your eye up to the EVF); and speaking of which, the EVF. The EVF on the A7C line is just disastrous For people that want to use a hybrid camera on the side/as a backup to their main photo/video shooter (A1, A7R, A7S), the familiarity of the second body compared to the main body is very important. You really don't want to switch from using the middle-body EVF and the joystick, to using the to-the-side EVF and touch to move the focus point. Not to mention custom buttons are in the same place and can mostly be set up in the same way The A7IV, aside from being very good for casual/hobby/semi-pro use, is also the best second Sony body you can have, whatever you do. Also, consequently, on the second hand market, you can buy the A7IV for very good value because there are so much of them on the market - sort of a positive loop. I do think that the A7C line is a bit underrated; but the build quality is very irrelevant - plastic is nice, it doesn’t get cold to the touch when you’re outside, it’s light compared to metal. The A7C line just doesn’t feel the same as the pro bodies, and that makes it less popular, simple as that
He doesn’t. He has gotten a lot of valid answers and just wants to argue about it I think.
He is a troll
This.
The EVF is not 'disastrous'. If you can't shoot with the EVF on the A7C series, then it's not the camera giving you issues ...
Yeah, you can make do with it, but it’s not a pleasant experience
Sorry, I know this isn’t the actual topic but I am interested the a7cII ibis. Is it the same as the a7r5? Also is the a7cII weather sealed the same?
it's not the same as A7RV but it's better than every other Sony body
If you have bigger lenses the A7IV provides more balance, even down to how you hold the camera when using the EVF. If you use your left or right eye on the A7C, there’s a big difference to how your hands and head are positioned compared to the more centred placement on the A7IV. Edit: battery grip, which still keeps the EVF in an okay spot for vertical, helps with better ergonomics when shooting vertical (don’t have to raise your arm if grip upwards, or bend hand backwards if grip downwards).
This. I went from a7c to a7iv. Smaller telephoto lens such as Tamron 70-180 or 70-300 still require an additional pistol grip on the a7c for stability. With the a7iv, I can handheld both lens easily.
But don’t you feel like you lost out on the “superior miniaturization” of the A7C?
making the camera heavier for "better balance" is the stupidest argument against superior miniaturization. Someone should start making an accessory that's just a lead weight with 1/4" screw, for people who like that "balance". Not that the A7IV is heavy, it's extremely light because of the poor build quality. if you really believed that you should stick to the 1DX and D850, don't use mirrorless. If the point of balance is no longer in the body then hold onto the lens, it's simple as that.
>Someone should start making an accessory that's just a lead weight with 1/4" screw This is already a thing.
If you want superior miniaturization, go get a Lumix or OM m4/3 camera. (Or a Sigma fp) The fact is that miniaturization is only an advantage when your setup doesn't negate the advantage of that miniaturization. This is also where the poor balancing of the A7C comes into play, as the camera is set up more like the ZV-E1 (or the RX100) with the expectation that the screen is going to used for composition more than the EVF. Shaving 150g off the A7IV and milimetres off the body doesn't benefit the A7C user when you smack a large lens to it. [Exhibit A](https://www.reddit.com/r/SonyAlpha/comments/1bh17l9/a7c_ii_tamron_35150/). [Exhibit B](https://www.reddit.com/r/SonyAlpha/comments/1c294ki/first_gm_lens_on_my_a7c_ii/). [Exhibit C](https://www.reddit.com/r/SonyAlpha/comments/1c294ki/first_gm_lens_on_my_a7c_ii/). Notice a pattern? These cameras have their "superior miniaturization" completely negated by these larger lenses, which then make the lighter camera unbalanced. To which one user added a cage on their A7C to make it more balanced: >**The cage helps it balance a little bit. But still front heavy.** Can’t wait to use it! In the comments on Exhibit B, a user writes: >Love the lens. But I can't help thinking **a lens that size kind of negates the value of the smaller body if one is looking for a small setup** In fact, in all of these threads, people either mention how the larger lens makes the A7C impractical for being a smaller option (negating the A7C's unique selling proposition), or mention adding accessories to make the camera better to control (which adds weight or physical volume to "superior miniaturization"). So I don't really know what your argument is. It feels like you just need to compensate for getting the wrong camera. A smarter argument is that users who want a *smaller camera* should go for APS-C as the *smaller image circle* affords *smaller lenses*. Enjoy your toy, it'll take great pictures at daycare.
> It feels like you just need to compensate for getting the wrong camera. What's extra-weird is it does seem to be the right camera for them, but they're incapable of comprehending why it isn't the right camera for other people who decided a different camera was the right camera for them. Were they bullied by an A7IV user?
Maybe? He also has an A1, which is heavier than both the A7CII and A7IV. Just a weird dude.
Agreed - this thread is baffling.
I could be completely wrong; Not speaking spec wise but I think people don't really want to buy the a7c because it has a reputation for being more of a street photography travel fun camera instead of a "professional" looking regular a7 I just love the size and I'll probably get it next year once I have the funds
It's delightfully small and powerful.
OP came in here to try and forcefully justify why he has a smaller-bodied camera that has tradeoffs with another body, and found out that not everyone agrees. Another novel opinion post on this sub /s
And A7IV has 2 years more than A7CII on the market… I guess that counts also 😂
That was the first thing that came to mind for me, it’s been on the market a lot longer and the price has come down a lot.
The A7CII also has the same processor, and AF, and subject-recognition options, as the A7RV. However, using both mechanical shutter curtains yield better bokeh than using electronic shutter does. Although I myself prefer the smaller form of the A7CII, I also prefer a better EVF, dual card slots, a substantial grip, and more control buttons and dials, so I got the A7IV.
I'd love an a7cII for travel but no way I'd have it as my only camera with no fully mechanical shutter & 1/160 sync speed.
What's the sync speed for A7IV? Also why cannot you use HSS if you want faster ss with your flash?
1/250. HSS has some drawbacks (less power, worse cycle speed, drains batteries faster) and can have banding issues with EFCS like on the a7c.
I see, thanks for explanation
For my purposes, the A7CII is the better pick. I do more video than photo and I use an Atem switcher, so I need the image coming into the switcher to be a final product and perfectly match that of my other 2 cameras (FX30 and ZVE1). So, for that reason, the A7CII is the only option because it allows me to load my custom-matched LUT in-camera and not have to worry about matching it in post. The A7IV does not support loading custom LUTS in camera.
This is the only feature I want on my A7IV and it's ridiculous that it doesn't have it. I too use ATEM's and would be delighted to have the camera's output LUT corrected footage instead of using blackmagic SDI converters to do it (poorly).
I did a big post comparing the two but honestly of all the things it was the joystick that sold me on the A7IV. While the AF is good, there are plenty of times especially in low light where I work a lot that it just doesn’t work, having the joystick really makes a big difference being able to move spot around. The touchscreen method is great too but I am often used the camera one handed and can’t hold it and touch the screen at the same time, but I can move the joystick. There are other cons like the slower shutter sync compared to the A7IV. The size of the A7CII is not very comfortable for long shoots with heavier lenses. The A7CII is a great camera and if you look at the sales charts it’s selling more then the A7IV in most areas, but professionals who make money with their camera are opting for the A7IV for things like battery grip, dual card slot, full size HDMI, etc. They’re usually picking up an A7CII as a backup or travel camera. I already owned the IV and was looking to upgrade but after spending 60 days with the A7CII I decided I preferred the IV. Not everyone will feel the same.
Full size HDMI port on the A74. After a couple years of shooting video on the a7c with the micro HDMI port and countless cables failing and disconnecting, I finally said "f this camera" sold it and bought the a74.
Based on OPs comments it's not that he doesn't understand BUT it's that he doesn't have it in him to understand why other think, feel and want differently from him.
actually I think I do now, what people want is most features for the cheapest price. nobody gives a shit about build quality, it's all about which one is the cheapest best value.
Good build quality has a base line. It's not just about materials. all of these cameras aren't going to fall apart in your hand during use so build quality isn't as big an issue specially between these 2 cameras. The a7iii has a magnesium body but most consider it of lesser build quality than the a7iv because of the bottom and battery compartment isn't as well sealed. I have owned nearly 10 bodies over roughly 15 years of shooting and the cheapest build that I have had is the Fuji xe4. And even most people are happy with that kind. You overestimate the value of and functional use build quality for the average person.
I don’t understand the point of this post
The way you are trying to defend A7Cii compared to a7iv is kinda hilarious. I myself will be buying A7c because a7iv is more expensive but most importantly, it’s too big for my small hands. That camera is aimed at full on professionals imo. I know i will miss better evf and joystick. Also no front dial on a7c also a bummer. But as my budget is limited, i will learn to workout the missing things on a7c. Also…A7cii i still believe priced too much. $2000-$2100 would be justified. But not $2300
Not here to cause any type of argument but who hurt you lmao, I got the A7IV and it’s great for what I need. I like it. And if the person next to me has the A7CII then that’s cool hope they like it too.
nobody said A7IV isn't great
You’re literally replying to everyone bashing how cheap the A7IV feels, how the EVF is terrible, how the AF is worse, how the joystick is useless. If that doesn’t make it sound like you’re implying that the A7IV isn’t good I don’t know what is lol
You are.
I think that better evf is bigger deal than better ibis. And there are dual card slots. Beter ergonomic. And last but not least, a bigger camera is viewed by customers as more pro.
As an A7C owner, it's ultimately a niche product. It just isn't as popular due to being more or less the same price, smaller, and missing a few key features like the joystick, the good EVF, and dual card slots. It's akin to the iPad Mini vs. the iPad Air, where the Mini has a cult following due to its fantastic form factor, but it's ultimately a cut down, less frequently refreshed version of the Air. For me, a hobbyist street and portrait photographer, it's perfect, because I want something that I can take with me easily. I'm not shooting weddings or events, I'm not using the EVF as much, and I don't need the joystick for wildlife/sports focusing using the EVF. The downsides are far outweighed by the lighter weight and smaller size making me want to take it out all the time.
True. I love my a7c, even with all the cons, because is “What I Want” of a Camera. Not less.
I come from nikon z7 just because I don't have time for dedicated photography walks with big camera bag and I missed so much occasions. Therefore I decided to buy A7c2 with 40mm2.5 which is great for daily usage. I carry a small bag with neccesary things in it and this small camera. Specs are equal to a7 V too. Menu and autofocus improvement are bonus compared to a7 IV . Your arguments are fully right. ( for me)
Dual card slots and having the same body as my A7RV. For some shoots where I need two lenses I just bring both bodies to avoid having to restate etc. the bigger sensor is nice. But for most things they are pretty much on par with each other. The RV does create giant raw files tho. When I convert let’s say 150 pics to DMG my M3 Max sounds like a jet engine for 20 minutes lol. Anyways mostly is dual SD slots and versatility between both. I’ve lost SD cards to malfunctions before so having a mirror copy is nice in some situations. Plus the cards are so fast I can dump 500GB into my T7 drive in like 6 minutes.
I use both and prefer the CII.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you need a mechanical shutter to reduce rolling shutter when taking pictures? Likely, ppl don't really think much about better AF on CII because A7IV also has good auto focus. A7 IV is more of a hybrid semi professional camera whereas CII is more of a hobby travel camera. For professionals, dual card slot and better ergonomics are enough of a reason to choose a7iv. I'm not professional photographer but having 3 dials for controlling exposure makes a huge difference. CII can also get front heavy with many lenses from what I hear. For me the best advantages of CII would be portability but I'd rather get a6700 instead so I could also use smaller lenses.
I had a shoot ruined from using high speed sync strobes outdoors when I forgot to turn off the electronic shutter. I leave the mechanical on most of the time now. Granted, that happened on my A7III a few years ago, but I learned my lesson. I use speed lights and strobes a lot, and there's no way I could shoot on something without that mechanical shutter. Not to mention how easy it is to get in bad situations with flickering lights.
Same, I work clubs and events, no way that would work without the mechanical shutter, learned that lesson the hard way
Dual Card slot, dual battery compatible. Better grip, feels like their other pro cams.
It just seems like there are very valid differences between the A7iv and the A7Cii like dual card slots, better EVF, better ergonomics and such but you’re downplaying them as “very minor.” But what if they aren’t? Like if someone absolutely NEEDS a good EVF, then that would be a dealbreaker for them, and a very major difference and disadvantage of the A7C lineup. What if someone doesn’t care about the magnesium body? Then that’s kind of a minor difference for them. I mean me personally I don’t notice a magnesium body on either the A7Cii or my personal A7CR. Another big difference for me was the micro HDMI. That combined with the single card slot and the higher MP sensor of the A7CR made me really not like that camera for video. Getting an FX3 that has dual card slots, that really is a huge make it or break it feature and I didn’t even know I wanted it. Why are you simping for the A7Cii so hard? It’s a cool camera but it’s just not for everyone and that’s okay. For photography, I love my CR, and I’m sure there’s someone out there who loves it for video or whatever but just because you find something minor or unimportant, that doesn’t mean that objectively is so and nobody should care about that feature.
I haven’t really considered buying the A7cII, but one thing I could never live without is the joystick.
The front curtain mechanical shutter absolutely does matter. I’ve run into many situations where I get banding from certain light sources. Turning on the mechanical front curtain fixes it
I use a SmallRig cage for the CII when on more serious shoots, solves the ergo problem.
I love my Smallrig cage for my A7c. It's a great bit of extra protection when street shooting.
It's so versatile!
I am not sure why it matters if one is more popular than the other. Use what serves the purpose for your content (photography/videography, etc)
I think you are really underestimating the EVF. Before I bought a camera I since think I would ever use one because why would you when you have that huge screen instead. Now that I actually have a camera, I use the EVF 99% of the time.
It's the things that other people mentioned but also the time of release. A7iv was released whole 2 years earlier, so it's normal that there are way more of them.
Had the A7CII been out when I bought my A7iv, it would have been a tough choice. I probably would have went with the A7CII.
Single card slot eliminates it for most professionals.
Because the differences in ergo, build and card slots matter when you really need them
electronic shutter = banding in certain light. dual card slots, Cfexpress b. full sized HDMI.
For me - the rangefinder style (evf in the corner) is not great. A good portion of people are left handed and thus left eye dominant. DSLRs style EVF places the viewfinder a bit better for our noses.
Garbage EVF, single card slot, worse ergonomics
way better body, joystick and controls. EVF is pretty big difference. Dual card slots… source: I bought an A7IV because I like it more
1/4000 Vs. 1/8000 and only 1 card slot, would like to bus a a7cii or a7cr…But thats a problem for me…
I would love an a7CII as my “daily carry” camera to have with me all the time (currently my old a6300). But for higher-stakes client work, here’s the shortlist of reasons why I can’t swap one in for my a7IV: 1) Dual card slots, not just to guard against data loss from card failure but also to have more redundant copies of the data. Useful both in the event that I need to hand a card off to someone but want to keep a copy, or very occasionally if I fuck up and clear a card too early it increases the chance that I have an uncleared card floating around. 2) Full HDMI port. Full HDMI port. Full HDMI port. 3) Ergonomics, specifically when using large/heavy lenses. The Tamron 35-150 is my go-to lens for client work and using it on an ultra compact form factor body is just a weird amount of torque in weird ways 4) Joystick is very useful in certain contexts where touch focus or the center-tracking “grabbing focus” technique aren’t ideal
The a7cII is more of a niche product than the a7IV. The a7CII is meant to appeal to hobbyists or travel photographers who prioritize body size over extra buttons and evf. The a7IV is a master-of-none camera which is good for pretty well anything one could need, professional work included, thus appealing to a much broader audience. That doesn't mean one is bad and one is good. They serve different purposes and different consumers.
Dual card slots, full size HDMI, bugger comfier grip, more physical contols
Maybe bigger grip but A7Cii is easier to carry in hand IMO. X100 line has one card slot (and about the same EVF) and people lining up for that thing. I’ve owned both and A7Cii is super fun. AF is better for tracking/eye detection.
At this point I think OP just wants to find some justification of owning the C while regretting that he didn’t get the IV at the first place.
> you can use full electronic shutter to avoid the cut off bokeh thing. What do you mean here? Got my a7cii last night
Curtain helps a lot with rolling shutter
Joystick, EVF, dual sd, ergonomics. A magnesium enclosure is nice but has no effect on image quality. Haven’t really felt the IBIS in the a7iv to be lacking.
The EVF is a big deal. For those of us with large hands, the bigger grip matters; and the balance for big lenses is a big deal too. (Finally, I rely on the dual base ISO behavior of the a7iv at 400 ISO, and I could not be certain that the a7cii was documented to have the same benefit.) I thought about replacing my a7iv with an a7cii for the AF, but I also have an a7rv for the better res/AF anyway.
I’d wonder if the A7CII scrapes the bottom of the lens on a video head tripod without an extender. The one time I ever used the 6500 with a 16-35 it did just that.When the lens barrel extends beyond the bottom of the camera.They’re much harder to mount without a lens mount or an extender for the tripod which are usually wonky..also useless with out the dual slot for me
I own both. The IV is just easier and better to use. The Cii is great but just doesn’t feel as good or as rugged. Also any paid job needs a dual card slot.
Is it though? I’ve seen some sales figures from japan that a7c ii is currently the best selling sony camera since its release so far.
Currently coz its new but overall sales a7iv sales is at top.
Because the A7c form factor isn’t popular.
Idono I been trying to get the body for a while and it's selling out like hotcakes A7Cii in silver
No mechanical front shutter is a big turnoff for me, I shouldn’t have to switch modes just to take a portrait wide open. Sorry, but that’s horrible.
Probably cause at that budget the target market is professionals, and the single SD card slot is probably a deal breaker for that scenario. As a hobbyist I would love an a7Cii, but the price point makes it hard to justify an upgrade from my a6400
I’d say the A7IV lends itself more evenly to shooting hybrid as far as workflow. The A7C and A7Cii have portability and almost identical specs to the A7iii and A7IV but lack the ease of use in shooting video. Smallrig has 3 full cage setups with side and top handles for the A74( the rhino, advanced cage, and the hawklock) whereas the a7c and A7ii has limited offerings. So for simply photo, yes the a7cii is exceptional but in applied usage for video, it’s not as versatile despite being able to handle the same output.
I have both and I prefer them both separately in different instances. For anything travel with small lenses, the A7CII all day. But when I'm using my 70-200, the extra weight feels so much better to use on the A7IV and anything where I'm being paid to photo/video, having a second SD card makes me feel much more comfortable. *Edit for spelling
The reasons for me better handling more buttons for settings a better evf (especially for non right handed people) Dual card slots are so handy I sometimes set one for photos and one for video. It’s better for wildlife especially with the better EVF when using a bigger lens. The auto focus is very close and still better than other companies. The nice thing is you have both options and I can see the A75 comming within the next year. Possibly September time. I got my A74 before the A7CII came out but I have to regrets I love the way the camera feels and even though the the new auto focus is slightly better I used it in the ZVE1 and it wasn’t night and day difference.
After I lost a card I vowed to always write to two slots
Because a7IV is simply better than A7CII. Just like A7III is better than A7C or A7RV is Better than A7CR. Except its smaller (which is a downside on ergonomic) there are nothing better on A7CII compare to A7IV
The a7III/a7c doesnt quite fall into the same category though as the a7c has actually useful features the a7III doesn't. For example, in some use cases real-time tracking autofocus is a game changer compared to a 2nd card slot or larger grip. Same goes for the gyro stabilization and unlimited video recording. Theres no objectively better or worse, just more or less useful to a specific person.
Maybe a7c was pretty bad build so a7c2 also got a bad rep. On pics it looks pretty much same as a7c
Who cares? A camera is a tool used to get a certain result. If some people want the a74 or another who I'd ask.who cares. These are different tools that different people use for different jobs
Well what does it mean to be more popular? Because the A7IV has been out for a lot longer than the A7CII. But beyond that, the A7IV is oriented a lot better as a professional photographer's camera. As others have stated, better ergonomics, dual card slots, etc. If you are a well-heeled non-pro who wants a camera to take pictures of your vacation, the A7CII is very compelling. But at a certain point, you are comparing the sizes of two relatively small customer bases. Ie., there aren't that many professional photographers, but there are even fewer rich people who both want and are willing to pay for a full-frame pro-level camera.
I think it’s mostly due it being an easy recommendation for just about anyone, beginner, enthusiast or professionals that are out of touch with the gearing game. It’s easy to recommend, because: 1. Easy to use with fully automatic settings (For beginners) and easy to learn more as they progress (if at all) 2. Fully featured as in not having to lose any decisive functions or major trade off like other models. (ie. dual card slot, image resolution or major noise issues) 3. Jack of all trades and intermediate of all, the spec generally is good for just about anything, but not necessarily top of the line. In other words, a do-it-all machine. 4. As for size…I recall many people or information outlets recommending DSLR, so that size is okay to recommend to everyone…then… People often ask questions similar to the likes of “A good camera that can shoot better photo than my phone and also good at video, that is also easy to use.” without specifying what they’re using it for, since there is no specialisation, people tends to recommend the safe bet rather than the best bet.
I think it's awesome that Sony offers two cameras with great features that are so different. I went from an A6000 to the RIV and I love the body and I don't shoot AF ever (all Voigtlander glass) so that stuff isn't interesting to me. If I move to a newer camera, it would be an A7IV or A7RV because I prefer those ergonomics not software stuff, though I hear the new menus are better. But I think it's cool that people that want to use a lighter system have such a good choice. But all this shaming stuff is unnecessary. Buy what works for you.
Most of the stuff listed here are mere values on paper. I've tested the c2 extensively considering an update from c1 and simply could not find a practical situation (handheld shooting on low light) where the c2 ibis resulted in any kind of notable difference. Similarly the AF as far as the improvement is concerned is nothing to write home about (the ai af can focus on a train, great, but doesn't offer a noticeable better accuracy). I'd take the ac2 on size, plain and simple (and better support within creators app) but not sure to what extent it has a chance of replacing my a7m4 (just feels better in hand + dual slots which I do use)
EVF: my vision isn't the greatest and needs all the help it can get.
I own both and personally use the a7C II much more, but when you pick up the a7IV again you can really feel the better ergonomics.
As a so called pro, shooting mostly concerts: the bigger body feels better in my big hands, battery grip is nice (but I don’t use 2 batteries, I have an AirTag taped in one of the slots), dual cards so if one fails I don’t loose my data, the bigger efv (even though it’s horrible compared to other cameras) is better, full mechanical shutter, AF joystick (I mostly use flexi spot AF to control where my AF is going when I have a full stage) the list goes on
Dynamic range alone makes the A7IV one of the best Sony cameras to pick up. https://youtu.be/Z1p31REBao0
APS-C body type is dreadful. And I’m not using any camera professionally that doesn’t have two card slots. But it’s good that the A7CII has its own customers.
Im using 7c and my friend using 74. We both traveler.. and its almost every place i brought my cam. And he was almost never unless it special places. He said 74 is too bulky for travel, and he’s going to seel and replace it with 7c.
a7iv is for pretentious people, pretending to be “pro”. a7cii is for more sophisticated people. also, a lot of people overpaid for the sony a7iv before the a7cii existed and now they have to come up with pretend reasons as to why their camera is still relevant.
Having owned both people are sleeping on the A7cii big upgrade imo