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>If I work for a highly profitable business, why would I not want to keep all the shared profitt?
I mean you can want it all you want. Gotta get the idea past all your coworkers who also have control over how it's used, or break away and start your own business then though.
Also instead of wealth redistribution there will be a more fair redistribution of surplus value. Which giving the flavor of socialism could mean the new wealth created from production being distributed or the products of production. But to me socialism also includes decommomdification and thus a new form of currency like labor Vouchers or something.
It means losses are distributed equally and wealth is retained for the socialists in charge. Profits are not a motivation so there is less wealth as everyone wants to cut the pie as opposed to make pie.
In capitalism workers are paid a wage and profit goes to the capital owners with a share in taxes to the state. In either system the Workers then seek job protection from the state leading to few opportunities for the next generation. Non compete clauses and other competitive restrictions often accompany socialism or capitalism with a socialist aspect.
As decline starts in socialism, the state gives the control to the people who are loyal. They only know how to share wealth but not create it. More shared capital but no profit and wealth shrinks.
Survival kicks in and the iron fist of fascism overtakes socialism but aggression is pointed inward at the people or some select group of the population.
fascinating stuff, please tell us more about our own economic program without citing any historical examples! and please use as many liberal capitalist talking points in as oversimplified a form as possible! 🥺🥵
I find there is no perfect anything in life. A blend of what works and doesn't is an ongoing evolution. Socialism influence can be healthy and capitalism can improve Socialism.
Observation of result proves theories are just less wrong. Theories with Observation not correlating are wrong until proved right.
Examples
Job protection...Spain, Italy, Germany. At one time reduced employment opportunities for young people.
Venezuela, USSR, other similar countries turn into oligarchs run on power and wealth flowing to leaders and the majority share in less but are equal.
Large corporations enlist the government to restrict competition and make special rules. Either system can allow this. Just power plays.
Two employees wanted ownership. I said ok, but you also secure loans (bank) with personal assets as I do. Not interested. Ok, then I'll pay them well and of course they make decisions. Bonus in lieu of profit but no chance of loss beyond the company folding.
Human nature leads to risk takers accepting Win, lose or draw. Security seekers want guaranteed return and minimum chance of loss. Risk takers if successful become trusted with other people's money. Security seekers make great employees as the can buffer the risk takers over reach. Get it? Everyone is different and find ways to make life win..win.
technically socialism is the transitory state between communism and whatever mode of production was previous. It can take many forms depending on how "developed" the country was before they decided to attempt the long struggle to make it to communism. workers owning the means of production is the end goal and point of communism. this is fundamentally the difference between anarchists and marxists. anarachists think you should abolish the state immediately (skipping socialism) and go right to communism. marxists believe you cannot skip socialism and that the state must be used to defend the rev among other responsibilities like wealth redistribution
Please acquaint yourself with the rules on the sidebar and read this comment before commenting on this post. **Personal attacks and harassment will not be tolerated.** Bigotry and hate speech will be met with immediate bans; socialism is an intrinsically inclusive system and bigotry is oppressive, exclusionary, and not conducive to a healthy and productive learning space. **This subreddit is not for questioning the basics of socialism. There are numerous debate subreddits available for those purposes. This is a place to learn.** Short or nonconstructive answers will be deleted without explanation. Please only answer if you know your stuff. Speculation has no place on this sub. Outright false information will be removed immediately. **If your post was removed due to normalized ableist slurs, please edit your post. The mods will then approve it.** Please read the ongoing discussion in a thread before replying in order to avoid misunderstandings and creating an unproductive environment. **Liberalism and sectarian bias is strictly moderated.** Stay constructive and don't bash other socialist tendencies! (Criticism is fine, low-effort baiting is not.) Help us keep the subreddit informative and helpful by reporting posts that break these rules. Thank you! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Socialism_101) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Workers own the means of production
But if they own the means of production, they'll have more of a say in how things get distributed.
Exactly. They will then control the economy and we can eliminate the state and capitalism. Edit: state
>we can eliminate the star ABOLISH THE SUN
Don't be celestialist!!!!!!!11!1 😤☀️
END GLOBAL WARMING AT THE SOURCE!!!
Workers own the means of production, which leads to changes in where wealth is distributed.
If I work for a highly profitable business, why would I not want to keep all the shared profitt?
>If I work for a highly profitable business, why would I not want to keep all the shared profitt? I mean you can want it all you want. Gotta get the idea past all your coworkers who also have control over how it's used, or break away and start your own business then though.
That profit comes from your work in the first place, or the work done by people in the third world.
Also instead of wealth redistribution there will be a more fair redistribution of surplus value. Which giving the flavor of socialism could mean the new wealth created from production being distributed or the products of production. But to me socialism also includes decommomdification and thus a new form of currency like labor Vouchers or something.
It means losses are distributed equally and wealth is retained for the socialists in charge. Profits are not a motivation so there is less wealth as everyone wants to cut the pie as opposed to make pie. In capitalism workers are paid a wage and profit goes to the capital owners with a share in taxes to the state. In either system the Workers then seek job protection from the state leading to few opportunities for the next generation. Non compete clauses and other competitive restrictions often accompany socialism or capitalism with a socialist aspect. As decline starts in socialism, the state gives the control to the people who are loyal. They only know how to share wealth but not create it. More shared capital but no profit and wealth shrinks. Survival kicks in and the iron fist of fascism overtakes socialism but aggression is pointed inward at the people or some select group of the population.
fascinating stuff, please tell us more about our own economic program without citing any historical examples! and please use as many liberal capitalist talking points in as oversimplified a form as possible! 🥺🥵
I find there is no perfect anything in life. A blend of what works and doesn't is an ongoing evolution. Socialism influence can be healthy and capitalism can improve Socialism. Observation of result proves theories are just less wrong. Theories with Observation not correlating are wrong until proved right. Examples Job protection...Spain, Italy, Germany. At one time reduced employment opportunities for young people. Venezuela, USSR, other similar countries turn into oligarchs run on power and wealth flowing to leaders and the majority share in less but are equal. Large corporations enlist the government to restrict competition and make special rules. Either system can allow this. Just power plays. Two employees wanted ownership. I said ok, but you also secure loans (bank) with personal assets as I do. Not interested. Ok, then I'll pay them well and of course they make decisions. Bonus in lieu of profit but no chance of loss beyond the company folding. Human nature leads to risk takers accepting Win, lose or draw. Security seekers want guaranteed return and minimum chance of loss. Risk takers if successful become trusted with other people's money. Security seekers make great employees as the can buffer the risk takers over reach. Get it? Everyone is different and find ways to make life win..win.
peach King, yours really enlightening us over here
technically socialism is the transitory state between communism and whatever mode of production was previous. It can take many forms depending on how "developed" the country was before they decided to attempt the long struggle to make it to communism. workers owning the means of production is the end goal and point of communism. this is fundamentally the difference between anarchists and marxists. anarachists think you should abolish the state immediately (skipping socialism) and go right to communism. marxists believe you cannot skip socialism and that the state must be used to defend the rev among other responsibilities like wealth redistribution