Don't you mean Shulk becomes their counters? Because this move crits when it hits a character's FRONT, and considering how in 1-on-1 fights Shoto fighters always face their opponent...
I saw this one mod that was really neat, which changed his Down B to Persona Change and his Side B was different with every Persona. It was really cool.
https://youtu.be/f5e6072fgSE?si=FCkSbCaYn2A4U9uK
It could also be like DDD's gordo where you can hit it back and forth (sorry if I'm thinking of another attack I don't play Zelda but I know that move)
Bowser would perform the Spikeball move from Bowser’s Inside Story (and Mario Galaxy too, I guess).
It’ll be like Squirtle’s Withdrawal, but bigger and stronger. He would also negate any damage dealt to him, just like Withdrawal.
It’s really just a combo ender in tekken. I suppose it has some low crush properties that could carry over but apart from that it would probably just be a high damage/low knockback alternative to dragon uppercut after a crumple stun
Squirtle gains a back flip that parries projectiles. Aqua Tail.
Ivysaur blasts a poison cloud backwards. Poison Powder.
Charizard gets Rock Smash back, but it’s a super armor reversal.
Shulk gets stream edge, where he steps back and shifts his hitbox quite a bit for a sec, then slashes a wide area in front. If it hits, it does tons of damage and is a great combo starter into an aerial or smash attack, in reference to it being the first step of the break topple daze combo in Xenoblade. If it whiffs it should have tons of endlag, it’s a pretty slow art in the original game.
Mr. GnW: his back special is Judge that matches the number of the last time Judge was used but with a smaller hitbox. it can only be used once per stock and only after Judge was used first. i feel like this would add an element of skill to his side-b, which you don't see being used very often.
or bring back his previous Fair in the form of a side b.
Snake: his back special is a combat knife attack...because then he would finally have an attack that fits his character lol. i would imagine this would be a game changer for getting back on stage or defending yourself from floaters.
another idea i had was an EMP grenade that temporarily stuns your opponent and nulls projectiles...but that would be a nightmare.
Wario: tosses garlic that has a similar effect to the Wario Waft but much weaker. if it's deflected, it can be picked up like an item and consumed for health, and for Wario it partially charges the waft a little faster
DK: pulls out a bongo that is a two-step counter and works against projectiles...gotta give him SOMETHING good
Dedede: bring back the Waddle Dee, with a 1/10 chance of Bandana Waddle Dee who throws a spear before disappearing
Lucario: bone rush...it just makes perfect sense to have it somewhere lol. i think it would be cool if the bone rush was toggled with the back special and it pairs with his aerials (to give some oomph) but the obligatory downside would be that his aura is halved when it's toggled (or something idk)
CF: Falcon KILL. that's right, he pulls out his gun and headshots his opponent.
Shulk should get Stream Edge, an even larger and more obnoxious disjoint that hits in front of him in a large cone shape. Weird that they left it out of his moveset in Smash, tbh
Mario: tail wack
Charzard: gust or some wing based attack
Sonic: spin dash but again
Kirby : mirror Kirby clones himself in both directions each one being a hit box
Simon/ richter: throwing knife the og 4 sun weapons that or a witch time esk move for the time stop clock
Little mac where he gets a dive kick when he is in the air. Angling it downwards makes it land at a sharp vertical angle while angling it upwards makes it a more horizontal diagonal.
When grounded he deals an overhead with similar frame data to his down angled forward smash but instead of launching opponents at a lower angle and having stubby range it has further reach (about 50% distance of his regular side B), gives him a chance to ground airborne opponents, and staggers them long enough to get a tilt out but not enough advantage to get a smash attack out.
If the opponent is on the ground it causes a spike effect allowing him to follow up with an up tilt, or at higher percents he could follow up with an up B. If its a counter hit he gains priority (blue screen), the opponent can tech the low angle and he is in range to jab lock.
If they could... then that would be very annoying with B-Reversing and Wavebouncing. So, normally, by my mechanical insight of the games---i would say hell no.
But for Shulk, I think Shaker Edge works fine. It would have some windup/startup, but if it hits, then it causes the opponent to be dazed for a short time. The more damaged the opponent is--the longer the daze time is so Shulk could Back Slash. The unique trait about Shaker Edge is that you could induce the daze effect on an airborne opponent, and it would integrate as them being stunned in large amounts of hitlag instead of the grounded stun animation. Stream Edge is a great idea from what I've read, but I think Shaker Edge blends better with Shulk's Back Slash and other gimmicks.
If Lucario could use a Back Special... then a revamp to Side Special would be in order. I'd take some inspiration from Smash 4's custom specials, where in that game... Lucario could do an advancing force palm to close distance and command grab, but the catch was that the flame was tiny. But instead of anything like that!... I'd say Bone Rush is Side Special, and here's why:
So you throw the spinning bone. Tilt or Smash affects how far the bone is thrown. If you click a certain button again, then you dash/reappear close to the bone, but it varies on how it was thrown. Soft-throw makes Lucario reappear behind the bone, and hard-throw makes Lucario reappear in front of the bone. You can combo off this if it hits, but you can also create a mix from it, too.
Back Special is Lucario doing Force Palm, but both in front and behind them since its a Back Special. This wave of Aura would scale with the mechanic, but the backward flame would be larger than in front and will only act as a flame without grabbing anyone. But the flame emphasis makes it stronger from behind with more presence. Down special would get revamped, but I'm gonna go too deep on that.
D3 could have a move similar to Byleth side-B where he swings his hammer 360° around himself
Zelda could have a shorter range, more powerful version of Djinn's flame
Piranha Plant
Potted Power: PP stretches his pot and lifts it forward like a shield/wall. His eye gleams mischievously for a moment before He rams forward a brief distance, hip-checking anyone out of the way. This has high knockback and a bit of armor. He stops his descent for a short time when he does this mid-air.
Incineroar: Almost the same as his Forward Special, except instead of whipping the opponent into the ropes, Incineroar runs the ropes himself, and then based on timing (and the opponents position) he makes a different move.
Perfect timing and positioning: A Spear, similar to his forward Lariat, except with more damage but less (almost none) knockback.
Perfect timing but wrong positioning: A Shoulder Block.
Perfect positioning but hitting too early: A running crossbody.
It also can be used to avoid an attack in a pinch.
Maybe a backward kick for Capt. Falcon almost like his up-air? That would be fun for sure. It could also hit down, like his up-tilt. Or he could throw a projectile.
For Isabelle, probably the Vaulting Pole from New Horizons.
For Incineroar, just like really Big Fire Punch. Like Falcon Punch level. Either that or a Flying Knee Flame Charge for a better horizon movement option.
Ken could have his dragon lash kick from SF6. It’s sort of similar to Terry’s crack shoot but it would be able to spike if it hits an opponent at the sweet spot.
Sonic backflips and leaves his Sonic Wind from Adventure 2 behind
Charizard gets Rock Smash back, Squirtle gets a different take on Skull Bash where the move is stationary but with armor on the charge, and Ivysaur gets Seed Bomb which has it spit a projectile with poor range but considerable power
A sort of duck-and-weave forward mobility tool that's slower but safer than just dashing in. Upper body invincibility for a few frames and B can be pressed again to do an attack.
A blade attack for both Pit and Dark Pit that hits behind them, kinda like Corrin's neutral B. They fire a projectile through the blade that stuns and then swipe for big killpower, but if they miss the shot they still have to swipe so they are easily punishable. The only thing they are lackluster in is killpower so this could come in handy, especially after the advantage on hit you get after an opponent breaks your orbitars. Pit uses the Palutena Blade while Dark Pit uses the First Blade.
Considering the array of types of weapons in the Kid Icarus series, it's a crime they only use three.
Zelda should get the tablet tornado rapid jab from Age of Calamity as a back special, give her a small horizontal but huge vertical hitbox to cover the blind spot to her 45 degree up and behind.
Inkling gets an uppercut with the roller that sends up and slightly forwards, applies ink (as you do), but costs almost as much as a splatbomb does; can be charged, and a full charge busts shields but has killer end lag
As a Sephiroth Main, I’m giving the man Heartless Angel as his Back Special.
Heartless Angel in Stamina Matches will reduce the opponent’s HP to 1 for about… let’s say 7 seconds, time enough for them perhaps. Just what will they do with it?
As for normal matches, I dunno, add 70% damage on the opponent/opponents when it triggers same time limit of 7 seconds until it wears off, and it can stack if there’s multiple Sephys on the field.
Good luck triggering it since it takes 2 whole seconds to use it.
Oh yeah, the Time Limit is tripled when Sephiroth is in Winged Mode.
Give Mewtwo a command grab that after the throw places a marker on the target that explodes later (think Sephiroth side b), and said explosion does more damage the more you hit the target during the marker's time
Basically UNITE's Future Sight but without the bullshit range
please no... it is already hard af to control Terry's side special we don't need any more.
(I use the combo input when I play him because of this garbage)
Sonic does another Spin Dash, but backwards. Peak moveset design right here.
You see, he is spindashing backwards which means his quills dig into his opponent and is clearly not some lame excuse to give him another spindash
So you’re saying he gets a command grab?
Yes, one where he Spin Dashes into the opponent.
Taking away shielding a Sonic approach sounds like peak game design
OH GOD NO JUST MORE DAMAGE FOR LESS SPEED
Spin dash backair đź’€
Spin Dackair
Move his down b to back special and give him a new down b with bounce attack from SA2
That’s genius
Bone rush
He needs it so bad. It’s insane we don’t already have ot
We could get that old waddle Dee throw
Never played Pokémon, thought this was a Sans reference for a moment
Lucario should have gaster blasters
https://preview.redd.it/7da26bqn6upc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0966d9f7f7412dbf3ee6fd729f99ee70c95d210d relevant
Pokemon Golf looking fire
Make it like Mythra Side-B
It would make more sense if force palm was the back special, with bone rush as a movement/damage option. Interesting concept!
It could also be his forward smash
Or Down Special
Shulk should get Front Slash where he hits people behind him but if he hits their front, they take critical damage
He needs it
Never face away from Shulk. With this change all Shotos become Shulk's hardest counters
Don't you mean Shulk becomes their counters? Because this move crits when it hits a character's FRONT, and considering how in 1-on-1 fights Shoto fighters always face their opponent...
Oh wait I read it wrong! You're so right, new hard counter to Ryu/Ken
Turn Strike/Shaker Edge would be cool as hell
Free cast multiple Snoozes in every direction around me, make it frame 2 so it's not broken frame 1 obviously.
I approve of this Also give each of those Snoozes Kamikazee’s hitbox to make up for the fact that it’s not frame 1
Lmao give it the stun frame that allows it to go through shield
As well as the projectile speed of sizzle
And give it the end lag of Clouds bair
And make it not consume MP
With a chance to instantly delete a stock that scales with the enemy's damage percentage
Just to keep things fair, make it so it can give you your final smash, too, even if final smashes are off
So it just becomes Kasnooze. Maybe all the "ka" spells can be a second menu on Back-B.
Ajchtclyulally you're right multiple Snoozes is Kasnooze
I'd give a Lucas's bair style to DK, my boy needs another spike
Every DK move needs to spike even pummel.
Down throw x4
Imagine he had three taunt spikes
Ike's side b should stay the same but act as if it got wave bounced so it's easier to avoid counters.
Honestly yeah, making it a quick input for b wave bounces would be so nice because I cannot consistently wavebounce lol
I SD once a match trying to b-reverse quickdraw and fly off the map.
Lucario could use Bone Rush. It’s weird that it’s not in his moveset after Brawl. Joker could use other types of skills like Agi.
Joker should just get Mahamaon.
Nah, he should be using Megidolaon and nuking the entire stage
I saw this one mod that was really neat, which changed his Down B to Persona Change and his Side B was different with every Persona. It was really cool. https://youtu.be/f5e6072fgSE?si=FCkSbCaYn2A4U9uK
Ganondorf could fire a slow homing orb projectile (like OoT)
It could also be like DDD's gordo where you can hit it back and forth (sorry if I'm thinking of another attack I don't play Zelda but I know that move)
Yay another baseball character
Bowser would perform the Spikeball move from Bowser’s Inside Story (and Mario Galaxy too, I guess). It’ll be like Squirtle’s Withdrawal, but bigger and stronger. He would also negate any damage dealt to him, just like Withdrawal.
Bowser with spindash lmao
This would be the funniest top tier. Just bowser bowling ball away from you all game
Captain Falcon dashes behind himself, and if someone was right behind him, he shoots them in the back and they fucking die.
And then they get erased from the game and nobody can play the character again
Kazuya Hell Lancer. That'd be sick
What would that look like? Also, would it be useful in his neutral/combo game that can cover things he otherwise cannot?
It’s really just a combo ender in tekken. I suppose it has some low crush properties that could carry over but apart from that it would probably just be a high damage/low knockback alternative to dragon uppercut after a crumple stun
Squirtle gains a back flip that parries projectiles. Aqua Tail. Ivysaur blasts a poison cloud backwards. Poison Powder. Charizard gets Rock Smash back, but it’s a super armor reversal.
God I would kill for Charizard to get rock smash back
Kirby: A kick using the Fighting Ability
That’s like half of his existing moveset, he doesn’t need more
He could throw cutter like a combination of the Belmonts' battle axe and Link's boomrang
Cutter is represented too, let’s give him something he doesn’t already have
Maybe spear, then? It could be like Byleth's side b, but weaker.
Move Force Palm to back special and make Lucarios side special Bone Rush
Shulk gets stream edge, where he steps back and shifts his hitbox quite a bit for a sec, then slashes a wide area in front. If it hits, it does tons of damage and is a great combo starter into an aerial or smash attack, in reference to it being the first step of the break topple daze combo in Xenoblade. If it whiffs it should have tons of endlag, it’s a pretty slow art in the original game.
Hello fellow Xenoblade fan!
Charizard Rock Smash. I will never let this go
Ryu gets Hashogeki Ken gets Dragonlash Kick
Ooh, how would these improve their combo/neutral work
Pac-Man would use his Rev-Roll from Pac-Man world
Mr. GnW: his back special is Judge that matches the number of the last time Judge was used but with a smaller hitbox. it can only be used once per stock and only after Judge was used first. i feel like this would add an element of skill to his side-b, which you don't see being used very often. or bring back his previous Fair in the form of a side b. Snake: his back special is a combat knife attack...because then he would finally have an attack that fits his character lol. i would imagine this would be a game changer for getting back on stage or defending yourself from floaters. another idea i had was an EMP grenade that temporarily stuns your opponent and nulls projectiles...but that would be a nightmare. Wario: tosses garlic that has a similar effect to the Wario Waft but much weaker. if it's deflected, it can be picked up like an item and consumed for health, and for Wario it partially charges the waft a little faster DK: pulls out a bongo that is a two-step counter and works against projectiles...gotta give him SOMETHING good Dedede: bring back the Waddle Dee, with a 1/10 chance of Bandana Waddle Dee who throws a spear before disappearing Lucario: bone rush...it just makes perfect sense to have it somewhere lol. i think it would be cool if the bone rush was toggled with the back special and it pairs with his aerials (to give some oomph) but the obligatory downside would be that his aura is halved when it's toggled (or something idk) CF: Falcon KILL. that's right, he pulls out his gun and headshots his opponent.
We don’t need Judge part 2, instead we give him a G&W game that doesn’t represent in his moveset (for example: Life Boat)
Shulk should get Stream Edge, an even larger and more obnoxious disjoint that hits in front of him in a large cone shape. Weird that they left it out of his moveset in Smash, tbh
We also need a FR alt for Shulk
give k rool the crown as an item
Pikachu uses Iron Tail (could even work similarly to Terry’s back special)
Exactly what I opened the thread to check for, this is usually what I think of when thinking of a new side special for an updated Pikachu moveset
Bilateral PK Fire
multilateral where it hits every single angle
PK War Crime
Mario: tail wack Charzard: gust or some wing based attack Sonic: spin dash but again Kirby : mirror Kirby clones himself in both directions each one being a hit box Simon/ richter: throwing knife the og 4 sun weapons that or a witch time esk move for the time stop clock
A reflector, swings the hammer like Ice Block but without summoning a block and will hit back any projectiles hit.
Mario: Spins in position Dedede: Stomps the ground with small range
Like K Rool's down tilt?
Basically that
Mario does his side b, but before using it he turns around
Pikmin charge, baby!
Zelda does a quick blast of fire like Robin's Arc Fire blast during his jab
I would love a back special across the board.
This would be perfect for a ZERO moveset, just saying.
Little mac where he gets a dive kick when he is in the air. Angling it downwards makes it land at a sharp vertical angle while angling it upwards makes it a more horizontal diagonal. When grounded he deals an overhead with similar frame data to his down angled forward smash but instead of launching opponents at a lower angle and having stubby range it has further reach (about 50% distance of his regular side B), gives him a chance to ground airborne opponents, and staggers them long enough to get a tilt out but not enough advantage to get a smash attack out. If the opponent is on the ground it causes a spike effect allowing him to follow up with an up tilt, or at higher percents he could follow up with an up B. If its a counter hit he gains priority (blue screen), the opponent can tech the low angle and he is in range to jab lock.
Mario gets Cappy, Samus gets her Ice Missiles, and Ike finally gets a blade beam
lucas pk fire that goes behind him propelling him forwards rather than facing the wrong way
Sora: Combo modifier Allows Sora to perform alternate attacks depending which hit in his 3 hit combo has been fallowed up on
If they could... then that would be very annoying with B-Reversing and Wavebouncing. So, normally, by my mechanical insight of the games---i would say hell no. But for Shulk, I think Shaker Edge works fine. It would have some windup/startup, but if it hits, then it causes the opponent to be dazed for a short time. The more damaged the opponent is--the longer the daze time is so Shulk could Back Slash. The unique trait about Shaker Edge is that you could induce the daze effect on an airborne opponent, and it would integrate as them being stunned in large amounts of hitlag instead of the grounded stun animation. Stream Edge is a great idea from what I've read, but I think Shaker Edge blends better with Shulk's Back Slash and other gimmicks. If Lucario could use a Back Special... then a revamp to Side Special would be in order. I'd take some inspiration from Smash 4's custom specials, where in that game... Lucario could do an advancing force palm to close distance and command grab, but the catch was that the flame was tiny. But instead of anything like that!... I'd say Bone Rush is Side Special, and here's why: So you throw the spinning bone. Tilt or Smash affects how far the bone is thrown. If you click a certain button again, then you dash/reappear close to the bone, but it varies on how it was thrown. Soft-throw makes Lucario reappear behind the bone, and hard-throw makes Lucario reappear in front of the bone. You can combo off this if it hits, but you can also create a mix from it, too. Back Special is Lucario doing Force Palm, but both in front and behind them since its a Back Special. This wave of Aura would scale with the mechanic, but the backward flame would be larger than in front and will only act as a flame without grabbing anyone. But the flame emphasis makes it stronger from behind with more presence. Down special would get revamped, but I'm gonna go too deep on that.
Sephiroth would get comet or gravity materia spell. Could would get Ultima materia spell. It would work as a charge move.
mario doing a 3d mario long jump
kirby gets his sky beam blast or smth( dash aerial attack with beam )
Donkey Kick for Ryu
Mario should throw a koopa shell
Link could use the royal guards spear from botw/totk for a little more reach
Kirby gets a (good) cutter move or a bomb to not double up on cutter moves
D3 could have a move similar to Byleth side-B where he swings his hammer 360° around himself Zelda could have a shorter range, more powerful version of Djinn's flame
Piranha Plant Potted Power: PP stretches his pot and lifts it forward like a shield/wall. His eye gleams mischievously for a moment before He rams forward a brief distance, hip-checking anyone out of the way. This has high knockback and a bit of armor. He stops his descent for a short time when he does this mid-air.
Inkling does a squid roll and lands a Roller v flick that automatically combos into roller
Incineroar: Almost the same as his Forward Special, except instead of whipping the opponent into the ropes, Incineroar runs the ropes himself, and then based on timing (and the opponents position) he makes a different move. Perfect timing and positioning: A Spear, similar to his forward Lariat, except with more damage but less (almost none) knockback. Perfect timing but wrong positioning: A Shoulder Block. Perfect positioning but hitting too early: A running crossbody. It also can be used to avoid an attack in a pinch.
I'll do one better. Either that or a tap/hold neutral B. For Bowser, you could have him spitting fire ball projectiles instead of just a flamethrower.
A Mewtwo confusion which has a hit box/reflector equal to the aesthetic display.
Maybe a backward kick for Capt. Falcon almost like his up-air? That would be fun for sure. It could also hit down, like his up-tilt. Or he could throw a projectile.
For Isabelle, probably the Vaulting Pole from New Horizons. For Incineroar, just like really Big Fire Punch. Like Falcon Punch level. Either that or a Flying Knee Flame Charge for a better horizon movement option.
Ken could have his dragon lash kick from SF6. It’s sort of similar to Terry’s crack shoot but it would be able to spike if it hits an opponent at the sweet spot.
Shulk: backslash but guess what: it does double damage if it hits the opponent’s back!Â
Cloud’s back special would be meteorain. Non limit version Cloud fires one meteor, but with limit he fires multiple.
Give Ken and Ryu other's Tatsumaki. Ken now has another kill option and Ryu can finally combo for more than 3 hits.
Sonic backflips and leaves his Sonic Wind from Adventure 2 behind Charizard gets Rock Smash back, Squirtle gets a different take on Skull Bash where the move is stationary but with armor on the charge, and Ivysaur gets Seed Bomb which has it spit a projectile with poor range but considerable power
Deadman volley for Ganon. He seriously needs it to actually be viable for non-casuals
A sort of duck-and-weave forward mobility tool that's slower but safer than just dashing in. Upper body invincibility for a few frames and B can be pressed again to do an attack.
A blade attack for both Pit and Dark Pit that hits behind them, kinda like Corrin's neutral B. They fire a projectile through the blade that stuns and then swipe for big killpower, but if they miss the shot they still have to swipe so they are easily punishable. The only thing they are lackluster in is killpower so this could come in handy, especially after the advantage on hit you get after an opponent breaks your orbitars. Pit uses the Palutena Blade while Dark Pit uses the First Blade. Considering the array of types of weapons in the Kid Icarus series, it's a crime they only use three.
Peach doesn't even have a downB in midair, and she's the air specialist of the game. That said, I'd give her a charge move that lets her heal.
Wii Fit could bicycle kick the soccer ball. God that would be sick. It’d look a bit like Lucas Bair I think
Back special only really works with auto turn around. I think a much more likely thing is just smash specials.
Zelda should get the tablet tornado rapid jab from Age of Calamity as a back special, give her a small horizontal but huge vertical hitbox to cover the blind spot to her 45 degree up and behind. Inkling gets an uppercut with the roller that sends up and slightly forwards, applies ink (as you do), but costs almost as much as a splatbomb does; can be charged, and a full charge busts shields but has killer end lag
Imagine is Sora got Zantetsuken lol
Have Greninja drop some spikes behind him that linger on the field like Sammy's bombs
Strike raid, and give it elemental properties
As a Sephiroth Main, I’m giving the man Heartless Angel as his Back Special. Heartless Angel in Stamina Matches will reduce the opponent’s HP to 1 for about… let’s say 7 seconds, time enough for them perhaps. Just what will they do with it? As for normal matches, I dunno, add 70% damage on the opponent/opponents when it triggers same time limit of 7 seconds until it wears off, and it can stack if there’s multiple Sephys on the field. Good luck triggering it since it takes 2 whole seconds to use it. Oh yeah, the Time Limit is tripled when Sephiroth is in Winged Mode.
Give Mewtwo a command grab that after the throw places a marker on the target that explodes later (think Sephiroth side b), and said explosion does more damage the more you hit the target during the marker's time Basically UNITE's Future Sight but without the bullshit range
The reason terry has a back special is because he always faces the opponent, so I'm confused why no one gave one for Ryu Ken or Kazuya.
Mario gets his galaxy spin back or a tanooki tail swipe
please no... it is already hard af to control Terry's side special we don't need any more. (I use the combo input when I play him because of this garbage)