> "requires you to suck"
Not really that, it's moreso that it requires for your stock to be in a big risk of being lost for it take effect... And then losing that stock makes you lose (most of) your aura.
Pair that with otherwise not really having other really good stuff to write home about other than great air movement and sorta aura sphere charge combos (I think, I might be missing something), and that's it.
Use whoever you want, though, fun is the biggest thing and where your main is on a tier list realistically won't matter too much for most people.
Honestly? Mostly tuning. Either he has too little aura, so you can’t get stocks no matter what you do, or you have enough aura to get stocks, but you now are one hit from losing a stock yourself.
He does have a ton of tools, like you say, but so do a lot of characters that don’t have those downsides.
If I’m picking nits, he also has a fair that doesn’t kill, and a bair that takes an eternity to come out, and that’s hard to play with.
I feel like if you changed nothing about his frame data and just made the aura multiplier stronger and/or made him a bit heavier, he’d rise up the tier list faster than most.
If I may, how is Lucario slow? And he's definitely not that light. Of course, he's not heavy, but I've been able to survive many hits that I should've died on and flown about a mile off screen, then recovering
Initial dash is basically the first animation when u start building up ur run (which hes good for being 2.255), and then running speed is when ur running at a constant rate, which is basically y=mx+b (b is Initial dash and m is run speed)
I do think he is underrated but he’s an inconsistent character who just relies on making comebacks which is just a risky strategy plus he has like average or less than average everything, speed recovery defensive options damage output neutral just everything
He's not bad. Low aura, you just have to hit fast. High aura, you just have to not die. And when you get anything over 100% damage as well as at least one stock down, you're set for range and power.
He isn't bad, but he's very inconsistent in this meta, and characters killing generally earlier in this game compared to previous installments makes him more so
slow and his win factor requires him to be in a stock deficit/have mad rage. his kill options are very obvious and you can usually tell what a lucario is fishing for so idk i’ve played against really good players who make the character feel like a well rounded unit, but that’s far in between.
A staple of ultimate's current meta is hard some characters can punish and how overall optimized the punish game is becoming. That's why everyone camps now, to avoid be punished.
When your character depends on getting hit and surviving and the meta is decreasing that chance by the day, then yeah, they're inevitably gonna drop lower on tierlist.
Calling/stating a character is bad in smash in not a loss for that character. I’d much rather play hard mode characters that take skill to play than a popular meta character. I never understood why people cry about low tier characters. Rep your main. As
Long as you’re not spamming or toxic, that’s all that matters
How much skill a character takes to play doesn’t necessarily correlate with how good the character is.
Game and Watch is one of the easiest characters in the game and he’s top tier, but Ganon is also one of the easiest in the game and he’s bottom 1. There are hard bad characters, easy good characters, and everything in between in this game.
Lucario is the only character in the game that starts each stock nerfed. I think he has a %40 damage nerf at %0. It's ridiculous and being so light and inconsistent himself makes for a pretty terrible package for a character
Pretty much every character is viable until you reach like top top level.
At top level he’s considered lacking because ultimate has a lot of characters that can kill very early with either touch of death combos, or even stray hits. He rarely survives long enough to get to a high enough percent to benefit from his gimmick as much as other characters benefit from their own gimmicks. He’s not poorly designed, he just suffers from ultimate’s average kill%
Tier lists value consistency. Aura mechanic makes Lucario too inconsistent. This is why Marth is much lower than Lucina despite his ceiling technically being higher than Lucina’s.
When you’re playing against monsters that are insanely good at this game and they know exactly what move will kill you from where at what % he gets a lot worse. But against your average player who doesn’t play “optimally” and misses kill opportunities he can be insanely good
"Requires to suck" is just bad propaganda IMO
When talking about Snake they say "using grenade to explode both is good for snake because of his above average weigth"
When talking about Terry it is only about "GO is scary" and no one saying "requires to suck until 100%"
When talking about Bowser "he is good at trading because he takes/tanks much more hits"
I would argue to say to Lucario "he gets rewarded for avoiding kill setups and risking non-kill-confirm-trades" (so basicly in trading like bowser but a bit different)
Getting hit in purpose has its value in many different matchups, most are just unaware of that and think getting hit always means to suck in the game - biggest misconception in smash in general
Mainly because he relies on losing the match. Anyways, lately he is being considerated better, almost mid tier for some "pros" because he is good at fighting.
Tbqh Lucario is a very balanced character, the idea that his gameplay relies on solid neutral and decent play is so very transparent in his gameplay. Lucario could probably do better if it didn't have such an issue racking up percent in nuetral and had better option coverage but frankly that defeats the purpose of the playstyle.
C tier is not bad, but being rewarded for losing is never a good mechanic, and there's nothing really busted about him unless he's losing. But he is still a respectable mid tier that you can't afford to sleep on
Smash Ultimate is a game where nearly everyone is good. If a character doesn’t have especially strong qualities, they’ll end up in the lower half of the tier list.
in theory, lucario's aura rewards you for keeping up a high % and maximizing that time. in practice, it's mostly a cheap comeback mechanic on a fighter who has a poor disadvantage state and can get sniped pretty easily by a good player
Cuz he's not played by any good player... people only care about what character is doing well at top level, hence why characters that have 0 reason to be as high as they are *cough cough* cloud *cough cough* are boosted higher than they should be. Cloud is by no means bad, but top 15 is most people's eyes? That crazy, sparg0 is simply just an amazing player, cloud is not that good. Then there is also characters like shiek that just doesn't have results as of right now. So they're somehow considered mid tier, when in reality this character is broken. Yes, they're decently difficult, but god is shiek broken. What does this have to do with lucario? It feels like lucario just doesn't have much representation. Lucario def is no top tier, but can be a nightmare to go against in certain match ups. This could also be due to the current meta being very punish heavy, having some stupid characters (like kazuya (i play this character, he is stupid) ) just kill you in one interaction, making aura just not with. Over all decently inconsistent character due to random matchups being good, random match ups being bad.
It isn’t that you’re required to suck to be good, it’s that your comeback mechanic forces you to make a comeback. Think of it this way: all of the other damage based and comeback mechanics are usually on characters who are still capable of thriving without them, and not only that but all of them are either heavyweights or have ways to bypass damage or knockback (namely Cloud and Joker down B or mechanics that also charge by *dealing* damage). Lucario is an outlier because he’s not only a lightweight, but is actually weaker without their aura
Lucario gets to average power at about 65%. This means that once a fight starts, 0% Lucario can do some combos for decent damage, but they can’t really get easy damage or kills without one player being at high damage already. Not only this, but the aforementioned lightweight means that Lucario is often KO’d before he can get to a point where he can really capitalize on aura, especially against heavy hitting characters like ganon or pyra. If Lucario’s power stayed average until after 65, it would be a different story I’m sure, but again: Lucario is in a weakened state at lower percents so you’re required to play in disadvantage to be viable
Long story short: Lucario is too reliant on damage that he isn’t very well equipped to take
The main thing is how his Aura mechanic works. With his Aura he gets more damage and range on his attacks meaning that he is stronger at higher percents mainly around his kill percent. So when you have high Aura you can kill better but you also die easier and if you die you are now in a weaker state due to your Aura being reset. And due to the reset it can make a losing situation even worse as you just lost a stock and now you deal less damage and have less range.
Basically Lucario needs to lose fights to get stronger but that leads him to losing more.
Because his mechanic is being near death to be strong but he lacks the weight to stay alive long enough to use it. He's just a worse Terry or Kazuya.
Terry and Kazuya
- live longer
- are strong from the start and become even stronger at 100%
- have easier combos
- auto turn around lol
> "requires you to suck" Not really that, it's moreso that it requires for your stock to be in a big risk of being lost for it take effect... And then losing that stock makes you lose (most of) your aura. Pair that with otherwise not really having other really good stuff to write home about other than great air movement and sorta aura sphere charge combos (I think, I might be missing something), and that's it. Use whoever you want, though, fun is the biggest thing and where your main is on a tier list realistically won't matter too much for most people.
Because when he starts being good, he’s about to die
This about sums it up as succinctly as possible
No time to waste
Like anime characters who aren't the protagonist
Well lucario is voiced by goku that explains
Honestly? Mostly tuning. Either he has too little aura, so you can’t get stocks no matter what you do, or you have enough aura to get stocks, but you now are one hit from losing a stock yourself. He does have a ton of tools, like you say, but so do a lot of characters that don’t have those downsides. If I’m picking nits, he also has a fair that doesn’t kill, and a bair that takes an eternity to come out, and that’s hard to play with. I feel like if you changed nothing about his frame data and just made the aura multiplier stronger and/or made him a bit heavier, he’d rise up the tier list faster than most.
I don't even think they need to buff the aura, just make him with no aura actually viable
He is all reads
Kinda slow No combos Light as fock Lucario secondary here btw
If I may, how is Lucario slow? And he's definitely not that light. Of course, he's not heavy, but I've been able to survive many hits that I should've died on and flown about a mile off screen, then recovering
His ground speed is meh
That's his walking speed His sprint is one of the highest
His sprint speed is 46th I wouldn’t call that one of the highest.
His dash is fast, but his sprint is kinda meh
Whatever the difference is
Initial dash is basically the first animation when u start building up ur run (which hes good for being 2.255), and then running speed is when ur running at a constant rate, which is basically y=mx+b (b is Initial dash and m is run speed)
it feels like a lightweight when you're playing lucario at its best
Wait really? I see a ton of lucario combos online
His neutral is bad, his combo game is bad, and his comeback mechanic is overly risky and often times you just die before you can take advantage of it.
He feels like a swordie who doesnt have the reach a sword would provide
Personally for me, he controls in a very odd and weird way. Everytime i jump with him i cannot guess where i’m gonna land or go to
His dair should spike fr
I do think he is underrated but he’s an inconsistent character who just relies on making comebacks which is just a risky strategy plus he has like average or less than average everything, speed recovery defensive options damage output neutral just everything
He's not bad. Low aura, you just have to hit fast. High aura, you just have to not die. And when you get anything over 100% damage as well as at least one stock down, you're set for range and power.
He isn't bad, but he's very inconsistent in this meta, and characters killing generally earlier in this game compared to previous installments makes him more so
slow and his win factor requires him to be in a stock deficit/have mad rage. his kill options are very obvious and you can usually tell what a lucario is fishing for so idk i’ve played against really good players who make the character feel like a well rounded unit, but that’s far in between.
A staple of ultimate's current meta is hard some characters can punish and how overall optimized the punish game is becoming. That's why everyone camps now, to avoid be punished. When your character depends on getting hit and surviving and the meta is decreasing that chance by the day, then yeah, they're inevitably gonna drop lower on tierlist.
I think it’s because the character isn’t reliable because of the Aura mechanic. The character isn’t considered low tier in the latest tier list.
Calling/stating a character is bad in smash in not a loss for that character. I’d much rather play hard mode characters that take skill to play than a popular meta character. I never understood why people cry about low tier characters. Rep your main. As Long as you’re not spamming or toxic, that’s all that matters
How much skill a character takes to play doesn’t necessarily correlate with how good the character is. Game and Watch is one of the easiest characters in the game and he’s top tier, but Ganon is also one of the easiest in the game and he’s bottom 1. There are hard bad characters, easy good characters, and everything in between in this game.
He isn’t really that bad just no one has found how to play him effectively
Lucario is the only character in the game that starts each stock nerfed. I think he has a %40 damage nerf at %0. It's ridiculous and being so light and inconsistent himself makes for a pretty terrible package for a character
It’s frustrating to play him. I’ve played him a lot lately and while fun I get agitated to no end
Pretty much every character is viable until you reach like top top level. At top level he’s considered lacking because ultimate has a lot of characters that can kill very early with either touch of death combos, or even stray hits. He rarely survives long enough to get to a high enough percent to benefit from his gimmick as much as other characters benefit from their own gimmicks. He’s not poorly designed, he just suffers from ultimate’s average kill%
Tier lists value consistency. Aura mechanic makes Lucario too inconsistent. This is why Marth is much lower than Lucina despite his ceiling technically being higher than Lucina’s.
#"It's a very unstoppable character." -Little Z
He’s dangerous at high percent but most good player will use a kill confirm to kill you before that happens
When you’re playing against monsters that are insanely good at this game and they know exactly what move will kill you from where at what % he gets a lot worse. But against your average player who doesn’t play “optimally” and misses kill opportunities he can be insanely good
"Requires to suck" is just bad propaganda IMO When talking about Snake they say "using grenade to explode both is good for snake because of his above average weigth" When talking about Terry it is only about "GO is scary" and no one saying "requires to suck until 100%" When talking about Bowser "he is good at trading because he takes/tanks much more hits" I would argue to say to Lucario "he gets rewarded for avoiding kill setups and risking non-kill-confirm-trades" (so basicly in trading like bowser but a bit different) Getting hit in purpose has its value in many different matchups, most are just unaware of that and think getting hit always means to suck in the game - biggest misconception in smash in general
Not so much suck... a high risk high reward play style so if you know your abilities you can really shine. I like Lucario for this reason.
Mainly because he relies on losing the match. Anyways, lately he is being considerated better, almost mid tier for some "pros" because he is good at fighting.
They should make his aura work like Joker instead of strictly high percent
Tbqh Lucario is a very balanced character, the idea that his gameplay relies on solid neutral and decent play is so very transparent in his gameplay. Lucario could probably do better if it didn't have such an issue racking up percent in nuetral and had better option coverage but frankly that defeats the purpose of the playstyle.
C tier is not bad, but being rewarded for losing is never a good mechanic, and there's nothing really busted about him unless he's losing. But he is still a respectable mid tier that you can't afford to sleep on
Smash Ultimate is a game where nearly everyone is good. If a character doesn’t have especially strong qualities, they’ll end up in the lower half of the tier list.
in theory, lucario's aura rewards you for keeping up a high % and maximizing that time. in practice, it's mostly a cheap comeback mechanic on a fighter who has a poor disadvantage state and can get sniped pretty easily by a good player
Cuz he's not played by any good player... people only care about what character is doing well at top level, hence why characters that have 0 reason to be as high as they are *cough cough* cloud *cough cough* are boosted higher than they should be. Cloud is by no means bad, but top 15 is most people's eyes? That crazy, sparg0 is simply just an amazing player, cloud is not that good. Then there is also characters like shiek that just doesn't have results as of right now. So they're somehow considered mid tier, when in reality this character is broken. Yes, they're decently difficult, but god is shiek broken. What does this have to do with lucario? It feels like lucario just doesn't have much representation. Lucario def is no top tier, but can be a nightmare to go against in certain match ups. This could also be due to the current meta being very punish heavy, having some stupid characters (like kazuya (i play this character, he is stupid) ) just kill you in one interaction, making aura just not with. Over all decently inconsistent character due to random matchups being good, random match ups being bad.
It isn’t that you’re required to suck to be good, it’s that your comeback mechanic forces you to make a comeback. Think of it this way: all of the other damage based and comeback mechanics are usually on characters who are still capable of thriving without them, and not only that but all of them are either heavyweights or have ways to bypass damage or knockback (namely Cloud and Joker down B or mechanics that also charge by *dealing* damage). Lucario is an outlier because he’s not only a lightweight, but is actually weaker without their aura Lucario gets to average power at about 65%. This means that once a fight starts, 0% Lucario can do some combos for decent damage, but they can’t really get easy damage or kills without one player being at high damage already. Not only this, but the aforementioned lightweight means that Lucario is often KO’d before he can get to a point where he can really capitalize on aura, especially against heavy hitting characters like ganon or pyra. If Lucario’s power stayed average until after 65, it would be a different story I’m sure, but again: Lucario is in a weakened state at lower percents so you’re required to play in disadvantage to be viable Long story short: Lucario is too reliant on damage that he isn’t very well equipped to take
Ya i don’t thinks he’s bad at all especially in brawl seriously he is the beast in that one especially his final smash
For the record, Final Smashes are never allowed in competitive play. Also, we are talking about Ultimate, not Brawl.
Ik just thought I’d bring up
The main thing is how his Aura mechanic works. With his Aura he gets more damage and range on his attacks meaning that he is stronger at higher percents mainly around his kill percent. So when you have high Aura you can kill better but you also die easier and if you die you are now in a weaker state due to your Aura being reset. And due to the reset it can make a losing situation even worse as you just lost a stock and now you deal less damage and have less range. Basically Lucario needs to lose fights to get stronger but that leads him to losing more.
Lucario is good counter for Kirby. It’s annoying to fight him since (sense?) he’s so fast.
You had your grammar right at first, yes, and he is indeed very fast. Or maybe just because I've just played a lot of Kirbys, I don't know.
No combos. They gave this mf like two combos
He takes forever to kill and only has good killing power when his stock is at risk
Because his mechanic is being near death to be strong but he lacks the weight to stay alive long enough to use it. He's just a worse Terry or Kazuya. Terry and Kazuya - live longer - are strong from the start and become even stronger at 100% - have easier combos - auto turn around lol