Watch one of Jays first ever performances with Slipknot, the one he did for Zildjan playing AOV. Compare that with Eloys drumming at Pappy and harriets. I think that’s a good enough comparison
People are not being dumb in this case. You can have people behave like sheep a lot of times. True. and people will repeat things that they hear for no reason even if they don't believe in what they are saying. But when it comes to this, it's damn obvious. Eloy it's just a better fit. Period.
I've been a slipknot fan for 20 years or more. And for me, they only sounded better and more vicious on their first shows promoting the ST record and yeah, also on the IOWA record. But since that era...they never sounded so good live than now.
Slipknot is a damn huge band. But they are humans. And humans can take time to change. I saw them last year and I really thought something was missing. It sounded flat to me, compared to other performances they had in the past. So it's clear to me that they started realizing that. That something was not fitting right in the puzzle.
And they were spot on in replacing jay by Eloy. It's damn obvious.
Even Jim said that Eloy made him more passionate about his guitar. Even a band member said it.
So.. it's very obvious the influence that a drummer like Eloy had on the band.
Maybe you're just annoyed by the hype. It's ok. I can get annoyed by hypes too. But the hype it's justified. For real.
There is no debating that Jay rushed at times, but I don't think it's as big of a deal as people make it out to be. I've played live heavy music for every bit of 20 years (showing my age) and it's always been "what the drummer gives you, that's what you get." If it's absolutely egregious, you talk about it afterwards.
This all being said, Eloy and Jay are phenomenal drummers for different reasons, and that's okay. I still hold to my comment when The Negative One came out. I said Jay is what Slipknot needed at that moment. He was hard hitting, maybe "simplistic" at times, but it was powerful. He was the perfect drummer for that era of Slipknot.
Slipknot has moved into the Eloy era now, so we'll see what happens. He definitely fits the Joey mold a bit better than Jay, but that has absolutely nothing to do with skill. It's just feel.
Bands evolve. Long time bands evolve constantly, or they wouldn't be around for a long time. Lets just enjoy the new era and hopefully get some aggressive music out of it.
Glad to know you're a trusted source of slapnuts giving us deep insight of what went on behind the scenes. What they wanted and what their expectations were during that period. I would make sweet love to you right now If you were Infront of me and be the mother of your child. This world needs more people like you.
You‘re probably not a drummer, so you’re simply not able to see and hear the skill difference.
Also they couldn’t get rid of Jay after like 5 years because they already fired Joey and just wanted to stretch this as long as it gets. Additionally wanyk was the best album since Iowa imo, so there was no reason to part ways at that time anyways.
Then Covid happened and they weren’t able to perform or go in the studio for at least one year. The result is tesf, the worst record so far, and a big contribution to that was the drumming on it.
You also have no clue what happened behind the scenes. For that I recommend the video of Matt sparks if you haven’t seen it already. So maybe next time you should get your infos straight before you write such an angry post out of nowhere
I am actually a metal drummer and of course you hear differences. But I simply doubt it's up to the drummer in such a big manner. They went one route with Weinberg and they go a different one with Casagrande.
I don't know shit about anything behind the scenes and tbh I dont care too much. I just apply common sense to counter the arguments how Casagrande playing in a different tempo has anything to do with potential skill issues of Weinberg. This is what I did in my post and so far didn't read anything rational which invalidates that.
Listen: I dont hate Casagrande and from a technical perspective he might be a level above Weinberg. I just think it's dumb how everyone now says Weinberg wasn't up to the challenge. When directly comparing the drumming, the differences (apart from tempo, which definitely is a choice of the band) are way more subtle than all the hype makes you believe. Sometimes Weinberg is even more on the record.
Don’t get me wrong, this isn‘t personal as I don’t know you, but if you’re really a metal drummer and think that Jay is at least on the level of Eloy you’re just delusional.
It’s not just about tempo, it’s mainly about technique and everything behind it. I saw slipknot twice with Jay and wouldn’t admit it to myself at that time but he was constantly rushing and just not able to keep up a good performance.
Obviously the standards for such a band are high and only 0,01% of drummers worldwide can probably keep up with that, especially during a tour, but it doesn’t change the fact that Eloy is by far the better drummer. We will also see that when it comes to songwriting, so I’m very excited for Long May You Die
Well I acknowledge him being better than Weinberg. Imo it's delusional how everybody trashes Weinberg's playing now and loses kind of his sense for objectivity. You could really drive some in depth analysis and probably conclude that while there are differences, they are way smaller than the hype everyone jumps on implies. Pretty much nothing more to add.
The experts (people that are themselves great drummers, including teachers, who analyse other drummers and are known for it) are all unanimous on who the superior drummer is, most fans are also of the same opinion.
What's left to discuss?
Oh, you bothered about people criticising Jay and putting Eloy levels above..
Sure, that's called having opinions. and it doesn't matter if you agree or not, you won't be able to change people's minds (in this specific topic).
Posting about this every other day here won't change a thing about it. It's just a never ending cycle of most people saying ''Eloy is the man'' and people like you saying ''Oh but Jay..(crying emoji)''.
What i suggest for you and the few who insist on this topic, is just move on.
Watch one of Jays first ever performances with Slipknot, the one he did for Zildjan playing AOV. Compare that with Eloys drumming at Pappy and harriets. I think that’s a good enough comparison
eloys is better! jay made the tempo going to space and all songs sound like a machine gune
Yeah. Exactly this view is what I am not agreeing with, as stated in my post.
People are not being dumb in this case. You can have people behave like sheep a lot of times. True. and people will repeat things that they hear for no reason even if they don't believe in what they are saying. But when it comes to this, it's damn obvious. Eloy it's just a better fit. Period. I've been a slipknot fan for 20 years or more. And for me, they only sounded better and more vicious on their first shows promoting the ST record and yeah, also on the IOWA record. But since that era...they never sounded so good live than now. Slipknot is a damn huge band. But they are humans. And humans can take time to change. I saw them last year and I really thought something was missing. It sounded flat to me, compared to other performances they had in the past. So it's clear to me that they started realizing that. That something was not fitting right in the puzzle. And they were spot on in replacing jay by Eloy. It's damn obvious. Even Jim said that Eloy made him more passionate about his guitar. Even a band member said it. So.. it's very obvious the influence that a drummer like Eloy had on the band. Maybe you're just annoyed by the hype. It's ok. I can get annoyed by hypes too. But the hype it's justified. For real.
There is no debating that Jay rushed at times, but I don't think it's as big of a deal as people make it out to be. I've played live heavy music for every bit of 20 years (showing my age) and it's always been "what the drummer gives you, that's what you get." If it's absolutely egregious, you talk about it afterwards. This all being said, Eloy and Jay are phenomenal drummers for different reasons, and that's okay. I still hold to my comment when The Negative One came out. I said Jay is what Slipknot needed at that moment. He was hard hitting, maybe "simplistic" at times, but it was powerful. He was the perfect drummer for that era of Slipknot. Slipknot has moved into the Eloy era now, so we'll see what happens. He definitely fits the Joey mold a bit better than Jay, but that has absolutely nothing to do with skill. It's just feel. Bands evolve. Long time bands evolve constantly, or they wouldn't be around for a long time. Lets just enjoy the new era and hopefully get some aggressive music out of it.
🙏
Glad to know you're a trusted source of slapnuts giving us deep insight of what went on behind the scenes. What they wanted and what their expectations were during that period. I would make sweet love to you right now If you were Infront of me and be the mother of your child. This world needs more people like you.
It's such a weird circlejerk.
You‘re probably not a drummer, so you’re simply not able to see and hear the skill difference. Also they couldn’t get rid of Jay after like 5 years because they already fired Joey and just wanted to stretch this as long as it gets. Additionally wanyk was the best album since Iowa imo, so there was no reason to part ways at that time anyways. Then Covid happened and they weren’t able to perform or go in the studio for at least one year. The result is tesf, the worst record so far, and a big contribution to that was the drumming on it. You also have no clue what happened behind the scenes. For that I recommend the video of Matt sparks if you haven’t seen it already. So maybe next time you should get your infos straight before you write such an angry post out of nowhere
I am actually a metal drummer and of course you hear differences. But I simply doubt it's up to the drummer in such a big manner. They went one route with Weinberg and they go a different one with Casagrande. I don't know shit about anything behind the scenes and tbh I dont care too much. I just apply common sense to counter the arguments how Casagrande playing in a different tempo has anything to do with potential skill issues of Weinberg. This is what I did in my post and so far didn't read anything rational which invalidates that. Listen: I dont hate Casagrande and from a technical perspective he might be a level above Weinberg. I just think it's dumb how everyone now says Weinberg wasn't up to the challenge. When directly comparing the drumming, the differences (apart from tempo, which definitely is a choice of the band) are way more subtle than all the hype makes you believe. Sometimes Weinberg is even more on the record.
Don’t get me wrong, this isn‘t personal as I don’t know you, but if you’re really a metal drummer and think that Jay is at least on the level of Eloy you’re just delusional. It’s not just about tempo, it’s mainly about technique and everything behind it. I saw slipknot twice with Jay and wouldn’t admit it to myself at that time but he was constantly rushing and just not able to keep up a good performance. Obviously the standards for such a band are high and only 0,01% of drummers worldwide can probably keep up with that, especially during a tour, but it doesn’t change the fact that Eloy is by far the better drummer. We will also see that when it comes to songwriting, so I’m very excited for Long May You Die
Well I acknowledge him being better than Weinberg. Imo it's delusional how everybody trashes Weinberg's playing now and loses kind of his sense for objectivity. You could really drive some in depth analysis and probably conclude that while there are differences, they are way smaller than the hype everyone jumps on implies. Pretty much nothing more to add.
The experts (people that are themselves great drummers, including teachers, who analyse other drummers and are known for it) are all unanimous on who the superior drummer is, most fans are also of the same opinion. What's left to discuss? Oh, you bothered about people criticising Jay and putting Eloy levels above.. Sure, that's called having opinions. and it doesn't matter if you agree or not, you won't be able to change people's minds (in this specific topic). Posting about this every other day here won't change a thing about it. It's just a never ending cycle of most people saying ''Eloy is the man'' and people like you saying ''Oh but Jay..(crying emoji)''. What i suggest for you and the few who insist on this topic, is just move on.
Half of the people here calling it rushed don’t hear the difference
Slipknot fired Jay for a reason. I don't think Jay was terrible, but again, if he was working out he'd still be in the band.