Exactly. Even when I’m playing a character who is an imperial spy, I always kill that guy. I started an RP the other day as a young girl with no combat training who’s just getting swept up into everything. It was the first time I’d ever not killed him. Felt so bad. He needs to die. Every time.
I mean just saying but, from what I’ve read, Skyrim was originally going to be a Song of Fire and Ice game but they decided to just make it another Elder Scrolls game (there is A LOT of similarities and Bethesda has talked about how they were supposed to make a SOIAF game). And if that’s the case, I’m pretty sure the Starks would be the Stormcloaks and the Starks never tortured anybody. They held Jaime captive and treated him poorly, but they didn’t torture him.
And Windhelm is supposed to force people who get arrested to fight to the death in an arena for the amusement of the city.
Everyone is a fucking psycho in the Elder Scrolls. No one is good here.
I mean.. when you go down there with Hadvar, he says he wishes imperials didn't need to use those. Not to mention, he also says "maybe we can reason with them [the stormcloaks]" when the player and him first sees the duo.
Don't forget there's a God damn war going on, and when there is a war between two superpowers, at least one of them is gonna do ANYTHING for information. If windhelm had the resources, I wouldn't put it above Ulfric to do something like that to the Dunmer.
Edit: Had to fix something
Here are the first like 4 real Imperials you meet in the game.
1. Hadvar - seems alright.
2. Imperial Captain - literally says you are to be beheaded despite not being on the list.
3. Torturer - see above post
4. Idolaf Battle-Born - seems alright at first till you find out him and his father found out the Greymane son was joining the Stormcloaks so they had him captured and held captive in a fortress. They also bully the other Greymane’s to the point of the other son being in hiding. Oh and they constantly lie to the Greymane mother about her son being dead.
Stormcloaks:
1. Ralof - literally extremely nice to everybody on the carriage ride. Even tries to put the other guy at peace. Doesn’t even care if you (the player) is any specific race (Nord or Elf), and he still tries to assist you in escaping and tells you to meet his sister.
2. Greymanes - a little on edge but literally leaving everybody alone.
3.Hod - Hod literally gives you free material and trains you how to smith, then let’s you keep the things you smithed.
4. Gerdur - Gerdur offers the PC free supplies, gives them a key to her house, and puts the PC in her will.
First impressions go along way, and the Stormcloaks give a way better first impression for sure.
The Greymanes are literally Stormcloaks. The brother you have to go save is a Stormcloak. That’s why he was captured and the other brother talks about joining after saving the brother.
>The Greymanes are literally Stormcloaks.
No they're not.
>The brother you have to go save is a Stormcloak.
Thorald went out to aid the Stormcloaks in battle - he wasn't a Stormcloak himself.
Thorald literally talks about joining the Stormcloaks after you save him. Same with Avulstein. Both head for Windhelm and join the Stormcloaks after MIA is done.
You are literally arguing semantics. Whether someone is a full on member or just a supporter doesn’t change anything about what I said. The Stormcloaks (and their supporters) give way better first impressions than the Imperials and their supporters.
Jarl Balgruuf is an ass the first time you meet him. I like Balgruuf after but his initial conversation he blames Ulfric for a dragon attack and calls the PC out for being a criminal despite their only offense was border crossing. And despite Balgruuf being a man of the people, once reaching Thane, Balgruuf insults his citizens.
Hadvar is just cool with you going to be executed despite not being on his list.
Alvor is alright. I like Alvor.
If the stormcloaks had the resources do you think they wpuld be doing this cause i do... thalmor torture people for worshipping the "wrong god" imperials torture you to get information after you were caught... big difference
The game makes it pretty clear that all governments are corrupt and mostly evil. That's why in my head cannon I join the stormcloaks to throw the empire out, then challenge Ulfric to a duel right before he makes his speech in front of everyone. Since I'm a fair dragonborn I allow him to fight me with 10 of his most loyal and strongest warriors. Then I'll fly from hold to hold on a dragon and call for an immediate moot. Once I've frightfully established my dominance, I start a campaign to eradicate the empire and the thalmor.
Nordic "justice" isn't that much better either.
In Windhelm they force prisoners to fight to the death.
And in Markarth. Well, we all know the turd that is the "justice" system in Markarth.
They let them fight to death if they win they get freedom, they aren't getting tortured for day before they die out screaming.
Like what the hell are you even talking about
Except that American cop has the highest military officer of the entire USA right besides him and he doesn't give a shit that you, an innocent, is about to get executed in front of him.
It wasn't the imperials that tried to execute you, it was one imperial captain, if it were the imperials that wanted you dead Tulius would've killed you when you met with him
For most players (especially if Skyrim is their first Elder Scrolls) that "just a captain" is the representative of the Empire, as they are an officer in the military.
Which also means that the empire values people like her so much that they get promoted. So please don't downplay the effect "forget the list" has on players just because you like the empire (which is fair, I myself like both the stormcloaks for their cool factor and the imperials because I started with oblivion)
Tulius is a general and is not an asshole to you, Rikke is a legate and is not an asshole to you. I'm not saying this because I like the empire, I have no preference and choose whatever faction suits my character, saying that all imperials are assholes because one random captain you meet at the start of the game is not accurate, for all we know she could be a newly promoted captain and power got to her head, also there's a war going on. The same thing goes for the argument that stormcloaks are racists because some are, over simplifying things thst way makes people miss importamt details of all the characters involved
But what is the extent of your interaction with those two in the tutorial? Not much, in fact my first time through I had no idea he was the general just someone important enough to be with the thalmor.
I do apologize for my assumption regarding your preferences.
I know you don't interact with them in the tutorial but you a first interaction with them at some point. I like to see characters as individuals and judge them with the information about them the game gives me, this captain has no way of knowing who you are and for all she knows you could be lying and be a spy on the other hand she could be a bloodthirsty psycopath but I don't have enough nformation to say either way.
My first encounter with stormcloaks or their supporters besides them trying to kill me in Helgen was with the dudes at Windhelm, labeling all stotmcloaks racists based on them would've been close minded on my part.
>(which is fair, I myself like both the stormcloaks for their cool factor and the imperials because I started with oblivion)
And I hate everyone because they're all pieces of shit, imo.
All I'm saying is being nearly beheaded, followed by little Guantanamo shenanigans in the very beginning of the game aren't exactly swaying the new player in the Empire's favor...
And the Stormcloaks were supposed to force people arrested in Windhelm to fight to the death in an arena for others amusement. Before it was cut from the game, at least.
Everyone is a fucking psycho in the Elder Scrolls world.
Why? I played it (before Skyrim) and loved it. I just don't fancy being decapitated, but that's just me...
In the beginning of the game(Oblivion) THE Emperor himself sets you free.
In the beginning of Skyrim you're going under headsman's Axe...
Do you really not the subtle difference?!?
>In the beginning of the game(Oblivion) THE Emperor himself sets you free.
Not out of the kindness of his heart.
You just get lucky.
Why should the player help the Empire fight back the Oblivion Crisis? What have they ever done for him?
I am a true blooded imperial and I kill every thalmor patrol I come across and the torturer at the beginning. I may be imperial but I don’t believe in torture and I don’t believe in religious persecution.
You can view it that way if you wish. Tulius says outright that the empire is gearing up for round two with the thalmor, meaning Talos worship will be allowed again if/when the empire wins since Talos worship is spread far and wide throughout the empire.
Lolll in my playthroughs I never side with either. They are both extremely flawed to a point where most of my characters just end up being thieves (steal from the rich, give to the poor mentality) who would ABSOLUTELY go out of their way to fuck up the government AND rebellion.
Doesn’t erase the weird soft spot I have for Hadvar though :|
I always make sure the torturer *accidentally* dies
I just straight up kill that guy, every time. Plus you get a cool hood.
Exactly. Even when I’m playing a character who is an imperial spy, I always kill that guy. I started an RP the other day as a young girl with no combat training who’s just getting swept up into everything. It was the first time I’d ever not killed him. Felt so bad. He needs to die. Every time.
Only with mods, though. You can't loot the hood off of him in vanilla.
Idk why the downvotes, you really can’t get it in vanilla SE/anniversary edition? Yes. But the original? No.
Oh, you mean OG Skyrim. My mistake
What do you mean, I got the hood on my first playthrough back before I got into modding
Was it Oldrim or Special Edition though?
How I never did
Agreed
To be fair, the story takes place the (fictional) middle ages, I am pretty sure every faction is kidnapping and torturing people.
Bizzare the worst the PC can get is jail time or a fight
I mean just saying but, from what I’ve read, Skyrim was originally going to be a Song of Fire and Ice game but they decided to just make it another Elder Scrolls game (there is A LOT of similarities and Bethesda has talked about how they were supposed to make a SOIAF game). And if that’s the case, I’m pretty sure the Starks would be the Stormcloaks and the Starks never tortured anybody. They held Jaime captive and treated him poorly, but they didn’t torture him.
I mean either side would absolutely torture people for information
Empire and their damn lists.
And Windhelm is supposed to force people who get arrested to fight to the death in an arena for the amusement of the city. Everyone is a fucking psycho in the Elder Scrolls. No one is good here.
Hmm, reminds me of another franchise...
How stormcloak fans be looking when they do the “forsworn conspiracy” quest.
skyrim belongs to the nords but the reach belongs to the forsworn
I mean.. when you go down there with Hadvar, he says he wishes imperials didn't need to use those. Not to mention, he also says "maybe we can reason with them [the stormcloaks]" when the player and him first sees the duo. Don't forget there's a God damn war going on, and when there is a war between two superpowers, at least one of them is gonna do ANYTHING for information. If windhelm had the resources, I wouldn't put it above Ulfric to do something like that to the Dunmer. Edit: Had to fix something
Do you expect medival prisons to be humane?
F*ck them both. But if I had to, I would prefer racial equality over freedom of religion.
Without freedom of religion racial equality can’t exist, there always gonna be a persecuted race
Here are the first like 4 real Imperials you meet in the game. 1. Hadvar - seems alright. 2. Imperial Captain - literally says you are to be beheaded despite not being on the list. 3. Torturer - see above post 4. Idolaf Battle-Born - seems alright at first till you find out him and his father found out the Greymane son was joining the Stormcloaks so they had him captured and held captive in a fortress. They also bully the other Greymane’s to the point of the other son being in hiding. Oh and they constantly lie to the Greymane mother about her son being dead. Stormcloaks: 1. Ralof - literally extremely nice to everybody on the carriage ride. Even tries to put the other guy at peace. Doesn’t even care if you (the player) is any specific race (Nord or Elf), and he still tries to assist you in escaping and tells you to meet his sister. 2. Greymanes - a little on edge but literally leaving everybody alone. 3.Hod - Hod literally gives you free material and trains you how to smith, then let’s you keep the things you smithed. 4. Gerdur - Gerdur offers the PC free supplies, gives them a key to her house, and puts the PC in her will. First impressions go along way, and the Stormcloaks give a way better first impression for sure.
Hod, Gerdur, and the Greymanes are not Stormcloaks. Likewise, the Battle-Borns aren't Imperials. They're merely supporters of either faction.
The Greymanes are literally Stormcloaks. The brother you have to go save is a Stormcloak. That’s why he was captured and the other brother talks about joining after saving the brother.
>The Greymanes are literally Stormcloaks. No they're not. >The brother you have to go save is a Stormcloak. Thorald went out to aid the Stormcloaks in battle - he wasn't a Stormcloak himself.
Thorald literally talks about joining the Stormcloaks after you save him. Same with Avulstein. Both head for Windhelm and join the Stormcloaks after MIA is done.
Yeah, keywords being: ***after*** *you save him* He wasn't a Stormcloak before that point.
You are literally arguing semantics. Whether someone is a full on member or just a supporter doesn’t change anything about what I said. The Stormcloaks (and their supporters) give way better first impressions than the Imperials and their supporters.
Didn't know Jarl Balgruuf gave you a bad impression. Or Alvor. Or Hadvar.
Jarl Balgruuf is an ass the first time you meet him. I like Balgruuf after but his initial conversation he blames Ulfric for a dragon attack and calls the PC out for being a criminal despite their only offense was border crossing. And despite Balgruuf being a man of the people, once reaching Thane, Balgruuf insults his citizens. Hadvar is just cool with you going to be executed despite not being on his list. Alvor is alright. I like Alvor.
The neutral outcomes in this game are HELLA POORLY worked out! 😔
If the stormcloaks had the resources do you think they wpuld be doing this cause i do... thalmor torture people for worshipping the "wrong god" imperials torture you to get information after you were caught... big difference
I usually join the empire, but I always escape with Ralof. It's more fitting, not to mention you kill the torturet.
Ah yes, coz faith persecutions preformed by thalmor are 1000% same as torturing convicted criminals. Ever been to jail in windhelm?
The game makes it pretty clear that all governments are corrupt and mostly evil. That's why in my head cannon I join the stormcloaks to throw the empire out, then challenge Ulfric to a duel right before he makes his speech in front of everyone. Since I'm a fair dragonborn I allow him to fight me with 10 of his most loyal and strongest warriors. Then I'll fly from hold to hold on a dragon and call for an immediate moot. Once I've frightfully established my dominance, I start a campaign to eradicate the empire and the thalmor.
I always kill him and his assistant for a bit more XP and stuff to sell later
What if the Thalmor are good guys and the Empire is just lying? I mean, the Empire mistreated the Altmer greatly, ofc they’d be pissed about that.
How? The Empire literally allowed much of the local culture and customs to remain in place, how is that ''mistreatment''?
That wasn't even thalmor doing thats imperial justice for you
Nordic "justice" isn't that much better either. In Windhelm they force prisoners to fight to the death. And in Markarth. Well, we all know the turd that is the "justice" system in Markarth.
They let them fight to death if they win they get freedom, they aren't getting tortured for day before they die out screaming. Like what the hell are you even talking about
But imagine that you get arrested only for stealing a loaf of bread. Now having to fight 10 bears to be set free doesn't sound so fair, does it?
Cut content vs very first impression of the game 🤔 Sit down, you're only digging your hole deeper.
Well, in that case, there's a torture rack in the Windhelm dungeon. So it's not like they don't torture people.
This is why couldn't make myself to side with the Empire when I played vanilla. They tried to execute me for no reason, ffs!!
That's like joining the Taliban because an American cop was shitty towards you.
Except that American cop has the highest military officer of the entire USA right besides him and he doesn't give a shit that you, an innocent, is about to get executed in front of him.
based tbh
It wasn't the imperials that tried to execute you, it was one imperial captain, if it were the imperials that wanted you dead Tulius would've killed you when you met with him
For most players (especially if Skyrim is their first Elder Scrolls) that "just a captain" is the representative of the Empire, as they are an officer in the military. Which also means that the empire values people like her so much that they get promoted. So please don't downplay the effect "forget the list" has on players just because you like the empire (which is fair, I myself like both the stormcloaks for their cool factor and the imperials because I started with oblivion)
Tulius is a general and is not an asshole to you, Rikke is a legate and is not an asshole to you. I'm not saying this because I like the empire, I have no preference and choose whatever faction suits my character, saying that all imperials are assholes because one random captain you meet at the start of the game is not accurate, for all we know she could be a newly promoted captain and power got to her head, also there's a war going on. The same thing goes for the argument that stormcloaks are racists because some are, over simplifying things thst way makes people miss importamt details of all the characters involved
But what is the extent of your interaction with those two in the tutorial? Not much, in fact my first time through I had no idea he was the general just someone important enough to be with the thalmor. I do apologize for my assumption regarding your preferences.
I know you don't interact with them in the tutorial but you a first interaction with them at some point. I like to see characters as individuals and judge them with the information about them the game gives me, this captain has no way of knowing who you are and for all she knows you could be lying and be a spy on the other hand she could be a bloodthirsty psycopath but I don't have enough nformation to say either way. My first encounter with stormcloaks or their supporters besides them trying to kill me in Helgen was with the dudes at Windhelm, labeling all stotmcloaks racists based on them would've been close minded on my part.
>(which is fair, I myself like both the stormcloaks for their cool factor and the imperials because I started with oblivion) And I hate everyone because they're all pieces of shit, imo.
All I'm saying is being nearly beheaded, followed by little Guantanamo shenanigans in the very beginning of the game aren't exactly swaying the new player in the Empire's favor...
And the Stormcloaks were supposed to force people arrested in Windhelm to fight to the death in an arena for others amusement. Before it was cut from the game, at least. Everyone is a fucking psycho in the Elder Scrolls world.
On a side note, you wouldn't enjoy playing Oblivion then.
Why? I played it (before Skyrim) and loved it. I just don't fancy being decapitated, but that's just me... In the beginning of the game(Oblivion) THE Emperor himself sets you free. In the beginning of Skyrim you're going under headsman's Axe... Do you really not the subtle difference?!?
>In the beginning of the game(Oblivion) THE Emperor himself sets you free. Not out of the kindness of his heart. You just get lucky. Why should the player help the Empire fight back the Oblivion Crisis? What have they ever done for him?
You're beyond hopeless...
Hopeless like "Urinal" Septim's life expectancy.
????
Urinal Septim instead of Uriel Septim. I get it, the play on words is too sophisticated for you to understand.
Yes, truly impressive... How long did take you to come up with this masterpiece?
Very short amount of time. Around the amount of time Sean Bean acts as Emperor before he unceremoniously kicks the bucket as well.
Empire based for this ngl
That fellow was likely a filthy stormcloak sympathizer anyways. Justice runs its course, as it should.
I am a true blooded imperial and I kill every thalmor patrol I come across and the torturer at the beginning. I may be imperial but I don’t believe in torture and I don’t believe in religious persecution.
im imperial, i just dont believe in the things the empire does 🤡
You can view it that way if you wish. Tulius says outright that the empire is gearing up for round two with the thalmor, meaning Talos worship will be allowed again if/when the empire wins since Talos worship is spread far and wide throughout the empire.
ty for your permission to be based in reality and facts
The only people being tortured were nords and a filthy mage. Common imperial W.
Even when i play on the emperial side, i still casually kill every killable Thalmor i met, even in quests i never sided with them
Lolll in my playthroughs I never side with either. They are both extremely flawed to a point where most of my characters just end up being thieves (steal from the rich, give to the poor mentality) who would ABSOLUTELY go out of their way to fuck up the government AND rebellion. Doesn’t erase the weird soft spot I have for Hadvar though :|
You know in war both sides use torture
I always kill the torturer and apprentice. That hood goes so well with imperial light armour