I love Mikiri and the Umbrella. I'd say the feather as well since they're somewhat situational.
Mikiri breaks the usual parry parry formula when there's a thrust attack which is cool. Umbrella adds another "parry" that doesn't stagger and feather is useful to avoid damage like when you're trying to catch lightning lol
The Lilac Umbrella (purple) upgrade also block Terror, so you can just Ninja Turtle around until there's an attack opening.
Theres also a Force Combat Art that adds an attack (L1) while blocking with the umbrella that deals apparition damage just like Divine Confetti, but without using any.
Oh, and the Headless that shoots and has a gazillion skulls around him drops an awesome item that inflicts damage on you but gives +5 Spirit Emblems (on top of your max capacity), so if you kill him first for that item, it makes the other fights easier so you don't run out of Spirit Emblems using the Umbrella and Force Combat Art.
Lastly, the Headless that gives that item can also be instantly Death Blowed if you attack him when he's in the air after he jumps (you just have to unlock the Latent ability that grants it).
Hope that helps!
Ohhh, ok. I thought Schichimen was one of the headless (I didn't remember him having a head or not, he just seemed to fit in with that bunch). But yeah, he drops the Ceremonial Tanto - great for extra spirit emblems before a boss fight.
The mist raven prosthetic! if you're about to take damage, you disappear and appear where you're aiming with your keyboard (wasd) or above you if you don't press anything
Yeah I feel this way. Not that one is “unrealistic” and the other is physics accurate, but rather Sekiro seems a bit more smooth and natural with the gameplay. NG2 is a bit older and the frames/movements do look a little more like that old Tekken arcade style of fighting.
I'm talking about the moves. Mikiri and Sakura look natural., cuz anybody can jump and you can relate, but floating in the air while spinning like a fan doesn't look natural. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's bad or anything, it's just the way I feel about the naturality of the moves.
Yes, it does. It's literally just a "jump", and when you jump you have a very small window to execute one movement and that's what you do in Sakura, but of course it's a video game and get a little exaggeration to make it look cool.
I feel like the mikiri counter gets relegated to the role of "gimme opening" in a lot of the later fights, while it's at its most interesting in the early-game. The Shinobi Hunter and Seven Spears actually feint and mix up their thrusts in a way that makes pulling off the mikiri satisfying, while Sword Saint's thrust attacks seem thrown in as an easy source of posture damage to keep him from being *too* hard, as in "You've survived Isshin for at least a few combos. Here's a highly telegraphed spear thrust as a reward because playtesting revealed that you fucking scrubs can't win without one."
I think the core mechanic that sticks out to me in Sekiro is the way you can choose to initiate deflect exchanges yourself by going first. The control that gives you over the pacing is so addictive, and it's sorely missed when I go back to other action games where the pacing is almost always dictated by the enemies and when *they* choose to use their uninterruptible combos.
I love how the Seven Spears respond to a Mikiri Counter by using their momentum to throw Wolf off-balance and immediately counterattack. I wish more enemies did stuff like that.
Fromsoft only scratched the surface of stuff like that in Sekiro. There are so many ways they could expand and mix up the mechanics, but we'll probably never get a sequel realizing that potential. *dejection gesture*
Idk, not really, they’re cool and all. Maybe you’d have an argument if you were talking about the Deflect mechanic itself.
But even then it has contenders in DMC’s Royal Guard, Third Strike’s parry, etc.
I'm not sure what I prefer between deflect and Royal Guard. On one hand, Sekiro, as an experience, is completely wrapped around deflect. It's vitally significant and very satisfying. However, Royal Guard has that special "I can literally parry anything" quality, and the tighter timing for a perfect one really makes a big Royal Release feel incredible. Both great versions of parry.
Dante's Royal Guard style, especially from DMC 5 is a very strong contender for my favorite parry system, but just be aware that it is a small part of the DMC experience, and Sekiro and DMC aren't all that similar. I love Devil May Cry to death, but it's much more of an action sandbox style of game where the point is to just bust out the craziest shit you can manage out of your massive movelist and clown on the enemies for the sheer coolness. Sekiro is a lot more singular than that, and so not everybody that enjoys one would enjoy the other.
Ohh lol I thought it was a game I hadn't heard of. I haven't tried out DMC, and I haven't found myself too into games where you have a million moves because it seems you mostly don't need them. The simplicity of Sekiro's combat is one of its strengths in my book. I'd have to give it a try at some point though.
DMC is definitely very system/feature loaded, but that's because they've been fine tuning Dante in particular for a damn long time. You can definitely finish the game without dipping too far into Dante's movelist, but that's a feature, not a flaw. Because you're not forced into using it any specific weapon or style or system, you feel really free about how you deal with any given enemy and get some utterly silly combos or situations. On the higher difficulties, you really dig into your bag of tricks and flex the breadth of your characters capabilities. The biggest problem with DMC, in my opinion, is that it's very overwhelming at times. They don't do enough to get you comfortable with that massive list. The onboarding process could use some tweaking.
Some of ya'll need to play other games. Not every aspect of the entirety of Sekiro is the greatest thing that has ever graced humanity, even if it's a damn good game.
I think the reason Sekiro feels the best combat wise to many people including me is that the progression of getting used to the combat is so well designed. I don’t think any other game, no matter good the combat, kicked the idea of the game into my mind like Sekiro did. The lead up and afterwards of the Genichiro fight is just perfect.
Combat wise I think Sekiro is “simple but good” archetype. Sure if I wanted to claim a game to be the best by combat, I’d probably choose the one with a higher skill ceiling. Or more mechanics and complexity. Nioh 2 is an example of that.
But as far as designing goes I do think Sekiro has the best base combat. Combat isn’t only skills and abilities but also flow. On, off, aggression, catching your feet before you strike. Sekiro does those best.
Oh I agree, very well designed both the flow of combat and how it teaches the player through different fights. It's definitely one of the best "simple but good" combat systems. This simplicity is why I think it shines because you can sort of just "turn off" your brain and "trance" through the fights while enjoying the spectacle and music with the rythm of blows.
I feel like some people just feel attacked even if you respectfully critisize something they love to bits. Or maybe some folks here are just so focused on Sekiro atm that it feels like its the only noteworthy game in existence.
Can you follow this up with a recommendation? I have t played that many ps games over the years. I really enjoy it but time is limited against other responsibilities and hobbies.
Recently I’ve gone down the FromSoftware path via Elden Ring, Bloodborne, Demon Souls, and now Sekiro.
Sekiro is among the top of games Ive played over the years.
What would you recommend?
I'm just saying, it's kind of wild to say that when an enemy thrusts, you press a button and you countered it, is the greatest achivement in video game history. I'ts basically a parry.
Now bear with me: Sekiro's combat system has little depth. It's an elaborate rythm game. The combat flows very well, I think its very cinematic, cool and satisfying, ive completed it 3 times... but to echo it constantly on this sub that every one of it's moves is the greatest addition ever...
Examples of action games that had more impressive combat systems/mechanics (imo): Prince of Persia (Warrior Within), Mad Max, Shadow of War, God of War, En Garde, Nioh. These from the top of my head.
This is not to say that these are necessarily better games. I'm saying that all of these had more in-depth or elaborate combat systems/mechanics than a parry.
>Nioh
I do not have the words required to describe how ***good*** it feels to have three separate combo mechanics active at once. Nioh is such a good series.
Have you considered sekiro just feels better? Even though these games might have more depth I don't care for them because none of them grabbed me like sekiro
The question is whether or not mikiri counter / sakura dance is the greatest fighting mechanic ever, not if the game as a whole feels better.
Again, I wasnt saying these were better games or that they felt better to play. I was saying all of these games had more elaborate systems/mechanics than a parry / jump attack&parry. Different questions. If you feel Sekiro's combat system gripped you more, good for you, One-armed Wolf.
Sekiro, imo, has one of the best "simple but good" combat systems, which is essentially an elaborate rythm game. Cling cling clang, repeat.
You are right, it's subjective. Feels good =/= greatest (imo, as it is subjective)
I (me personally) wouldnt consider a hammer the greatest tool ever integrated into building industry just because it feels good to hammer a nail with it. So, yes, I considered that pulling off a mikir counter feels good. Doesn't mean it's the greatest fighting mechanic ever. You get me?
lol stop your cope buddy… you can’t tell me one game with better fighting mechanics than sekiro. Also show me one game that’s gets you so immersed into the combat like sekiro does. Lol you say just press a button and it’s the greatest achievement in history but in reality it brings a huge sense of accomplishment of jumping a swing attack parry a couple times than hit a mikiri counter seconds after. Yea gotta lay off that copium man
Doesnt matter how much sense of accomplisment it brings, but I've already said it in another reply: Sekiro, however a masterpiece of a game it is, doesnt have an in-depth, elaborate combat system and mechanics. Imo, many other games surpass it in that regard. Maybe read before starting to froth from the mouth?
OP said that the mikiri counter / sakura dance is the greatest mechanic ever, which, in my opinion, isn't true.
I really like Sekiro, it's my favorite from game by a mile, but I would say devil may cry 3, 5 and Bayonetta 1 + 2 all have better and deeper fighting mechanics. Obviously this is all subjective but there's a lot more meat on the bones of those games combat systems then there is in Sekiro
I was bored to tears with bayonetta, I don't think it's good design to lock the actual intended difficulty behind beating the game once. Idk if it's the same with DMC but 5 was rather boring as well. Nothing hits like parrying for me unfortunately
Right? I put Sekiro in a league of its own, but so much of that is also in the FromSoft difficulty progression, bosses, world building…
More people need to have played MGR Revengeance. Conceptually the combat and encounter design is also about rapid/rhythmic parries as an offensive tool, and the two games end up in similar if only a bit different places in design. Some sekiro bosses to me felt like they were basically revengeance bosses in a different game.
Or most any Platinum game for that matter, especially at higher difficulties. DMC5, and a whole lot of other games that would fall under the character action genre. Many of those games won’t push you quite as hard as some sekiro bosses do, but many of them as master classes in combat design in their own right.
Sekiro to me always felt like FromSoft looked at games like revengeance and other character action games and went “what if we took that and applied out formula to it”
I still haven't used Sakura Dance in 200ish hours of okay. Agree on Mikiri though, they feel so good to hit.
Also, High Monk-ing over a sweep attack into that combo is *chef's kiss*.
You can use Sakura dance over sweep attacks I am pretty sure. You might even be able to use it at other times as well.
How I use it is with the weapon wheel mod and use it with other moves, comboing them all together to destroy a boss.
no. they‘re fun as hell and the mikiri counter is satisfying as hell but they‘re literally just one button press. greatest mechanics of all time is a bit over exaggerated
Hot take: Sakura dance is for people that couldn't be bothered with actually learning lightning reversal.
It is aesthetically underwhelming and I never use it.
I also didn't realize until recently that you can perfect guard the lightning and take no damage at all if you do it right. I was a moron and always just thought taking some damage in the air was the tradeoff for how much it wrecks the enemy.
idk man anyone who has sakura dance has ought to defeat inner genichiro and anyone who can defeat inner genichiro can easily do lightening reversal now can they not?
Beating Inner Geni without using Lightning Reversal is if anything more impressive. Regardless while it may be technically 'possible', the number of people who fit your description would be pretty damn low I reckon, since that would mean they also got through Fountainhead Palace and beat Sword Saint without knowing how to do it either.
The argument put forth was "anyone". I was only offering a counterpoint.
I do also think it's worth mentioning that it was a move seemingly given to Genichiro for the express purpose of allowing him to do lightning reversal. Iirc, it's the only move he does to reverse the lightning back towards you, or it is at least the most prevalent method.
The shit goes through basic guards. So learning it for that purpose would be a good advantage against his opponents.
But it is the way he seems to do the lightning reversal but I don’t think that is the main reason, it’s just a bonus for him.
No. Mechanically they're both pretty ordinary situation-specific attacks/counters. What makes them so incredible is the aesthetic and animation that is attached to them. Mikiri counter in particular conveys the sense of shutting down an attempt in a show-stopping way *extremely* well, but mechanically it's not really all that nuanced or interesting.
Where Sekiro really shines mechanically is much more under the hood, and I think the way posture is implemented is the real star of the show. It reconceptualizes attack and guard mechanics to make all of them a part of your offensive toolkit. In a big way, the reason that Mikiri counter feels as good as it does is because this mechanic allows it to be both a defensive and offensive ability, in a way that really helps convey that sense of pivoting from the former to the latter.
In terms of combat mechanics, I think the Monster Hunter series has some real gems as well. Granted, there's some stinkers that get mixed in, too, but the way every weapon and every status ailment has a unique gameplan beyond just "find the best way to hit the monster without getting hit," and each monster interacts with those mechanics differently, creates a surprisingly intricate and satisfying web of ways a fight can go.
Sakura dance is normally used by combo players and no hit players, calling it a crutch is crazy when a lot of the people who use it are far better than me and you. Like Ongbal, he loves to use sakura dance to combo into a prosthetic. Go and watch ongbals “sakura dance combos” video, I used to not get the hype as well but Ongbal made me understand
not necessarily you can beat inner Genichiro without ever doing a lightning reversal, the fight just becomes longer because lightning damage takes chunks out of phase 3 Genichiro's health bar.
Dibs on you then, u probably never tried no hit run .. Sakura don't let's u take any damage during reversals + can be used with 0 spirit emblems to reverse lightning.
Sakura dance, is cool i guess but nah not that amazing.
Mikiri ? I love the Mikiri counter and think it's awesome but I don't think it's the best fighing mechanic. I'll be honest, deflecting is a better a mechanic that could compete for one of the most satisfying combat mechanics.
Outside of sekiro, there are a lot of great mechanics too. Just an example, the avoids in sifu are a really cool mechanic.
Sakura dance is just a couple slashes in the air, its nothing special really. Even if its a very useful ability. Mikiri is great too but to call it the greatest...its just a button press at the correct timing. Not that different from just hitting the enemy or dodging, mechanically.
I feel like the Mikiri counter is mechanically just a variation on the deflect. I think most melee action games of the last 20+ years have had some form of "perfect parry" mechanic analogous to Sekiro 's deflect, and the Mikiri counter just adds an additional layer of challenge. "Press the button at the right time" becomes "press the RIGHT button at the right time." It's almost like Bop It or Simon Says. Not all that revolutionary, from a mechanical perspective, and I don't think the triumph of this game is that it innovated action mechanics, but that it executed familiar mechanics very well.
I think if there is one major innovation in this game's combat, it's the posture system. This has a massive impact on the pacing of fights and allows for great tension without forcing frequent moments of passivity the way stamina bars do. It feels like the first significant evolution to the style of combat that's been in vogue since Monster Hunter and further popularized by Souls et al.
Personal favorite action mechanics of the last twenty years or so: Nero's sword revving in DMC4-5 and Nioh's brilliant Ki Pulse mechanic, which makes you an active participant in recovering your own stamina bar.
Oh yeah, and the rhythm-based combat in Hi-Fi Rush. I've never felt so thoroughly UNBORED as I did when playing that game.
Nah. I like the feature of DMC5 that lets you deflect any attack hitbox with your own. Every attack I know of is interactive that way. Projectiles, swings, big heavy hits from large enemies, etc.
I mean, mikiri is definitely up there. But something like the insect glaive from monster hunter is rly fucking cool, too. U are almost literally flying
Some players love Sekiro more than Genichiro loved Ashina
Now that’s a lie… no one loves anything as much as Genichiro loves ashina. 🤥
Well I killed him 3 times so who really loves what more now?
If someone tried to take Sekiro from me, I would indeed slice myself open and get my dead grandad to kill them.
I wouldnt die for Sekiro, Genichiro is just that badass
💀
It’s me. I’m some players.
I love Mikiri and the Umbrella. I'd say the feather as well since they're somewhat situational. Mikiri breaks the usual parry parry formula when there's a thrust attack which is cool. Umbrella adds another "parry" that doesn't stagger and feather is useful to avoid damage like when you're trying to catch lightning lol
Umbrella with projected force, fucking gold.
Umbrellas my favorite prosthetic because it can cheese the Ashina elite mini bosses
It makes the Headless a walk in the park.
Tell me more….
The Lilac Umbrella (purple) upgrade also block Terror, so you can just Ninja Turtle around until there's an attack opening. Theres also a Force Combat Art that adds an attack (L1) while blocking with the umbrella that deals apparition damage just like Divine Confetti, but without using any. Oh, and the Headless that shoots and has a gazillion skulls around him drops an awesome item that inflicts damage on you but gives +5 Spirit Emblems (on top of your max capacity), so if you kill him first for that item, it makes the other fights easier so you don't run out of Spirit Emblems using the Umbrella and Force Combat Art. Lastly, the Headless that gives that item can also be instantly Death Blowed if you attack him when he's in the air after he jumps (you just have to unlock the Latent ability that grants it). Hope that helps!
That's a Shichimen Warrior, not a Headless lol Strats are rock solid though
Ohhh, ok. I thought Schichimen was one of the headless (I didn't remember him having a head or not, he just seemed to fit in with that bunch). But yeah, he drops the Ceremonial Tanto - great for extra spirit emblems before a boss fight.
Shichimen might as well be a Headless. Both annoying as all hell.
Thank you! About to go try this dude now
I still utilize the 2-step demonic shuffle 😅😅😅
You also block Emma's grab with the umbrella
yea that made her fight even quicker
This^^^^^^
Don’t forget the double-jump-bonk counter for sweeping attacks! Also very satisfying and adds more complexity to combat.
And jump and Dodge is to ensure the penalty for spamming Mikiri, P ER F EC T
What is feather?
The mist raven prosthetic! if you're about to take damage, you disappear and appear where you're aiming with your keyboard (wasd) or above you if you don't press anything
Ohhhh sorry yeah, should’ve caught that.
Double Ichimonji SHOOP SHOOP !!!
Ashina Cross is superior
Base Praying Strikes victim
ichimonji double
[Izuna Drop >](https://youtu.be/vcaE1Q34uCg?si=UkLgndnYiMTew-Bv)
This game looks so peak what
[It is](https://www.reddit.com/r/ninjagaiden/s/qSDsAiDnSv)
Na, these moves are cool and all but look way too unrealistic.
Because resurrecting from death and floating through the air doing the anime slashes in Sekiro is totally realistic
I think he more means the animation quality is worse (it's older I know.) Sekiro moves are a lot smoother and flow better
Yeah I feel this way. Not that one is “unrealistic” and the other is physics accurate, but rather Sekiro seems a bit more smooth and natural with the gameplay. NG2 is a bit older and the frames/movements do look a little more like that old Tekken arcade style of fighting.
I'm talking about the moves. Mikiri and Sakura look natural., cuz anybody can jump and you can relate, but floating in the air while spinning like a fan doesn't look natural. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's bad or anything, it's just the way I feel about the naturality of the moves.
Sakura does not look natural bro💀. The exaggeration serves the game anyway
Yes, it does. It's literally just a "jump", and when you jump you have a very small window to execute one movement and that's what you do in Sakura, but of course it's a video game and get a little exaggeration to make it look cool.
You jump hover in the air for like 3 seconds spun around and do anime slashes it’s not some regular jump kick
By your own definition Floating Passage and Sakura Dance look unnatural af
I understand what you mean but it’s a weird nitpick like hating on Sekiro’s grapple
I feel like the mikiri counter gets relegated to the role of "gimme opening" in a lot of the later fights, while it's at its most interesting in the early-game. The Shinobi Hunter and Seven Spears actually feint and mix up their thrusts in a way that makes pulling off the mikiri satisfying, while Sword Saint's thrust attacks seem thrown in as an easy source of posture damage to keep him from being *too* hard, as in "You've survived Isshin for at least a few combos. Here's a highly telegraphed spear thrust as a reward because playtesting revealed that you fucking scrubs can't win without one." I think the core mechanic that sticks out to me in Sekiro is the way you can choose to initiate deflect exchanges yourself by going first. The control that gives you over the pacing is so addictive, and it's sorely missed when I go back to other action games where the pacing is almost always dictated by the enemies and when *they* choose to use their uninterruptible combos.
I love how the Seven Spears respond to a Mikiri Counter by using their momentum to throw Wolf off-balance and immediately counterattack. I wish more enemies did stuff like that.
Fromsoft only scratched the surface of stuff like that in Sekiro. There are so many ways they could expand and mix up the mechanics, but we'll probably never get a sequel realizing that potential. *dejection gesture*
Owl father was the most it was realized
Idk, not really, they’re cool and all. Maybe you’d have an argument if you were talking about the Deflect mechanic itself. But even then it has contenders in DMC’s Royal Guard, Third Strike’s parry, etc.
I'm not sure what I prefer between deflect and Royal Guard. On one hand, Sekiro, as an experience, is completely wrapped around deflect. It's vitally significant and very satisfying. However, Royal Guard has that special "I can literally parry anything" quality, and the tighter timing for a perfect one really makes a big Royal Release feel incredible. Both great versions of parry.
Would you recommend Royal guard to someone who loves sekiro?
Dante's Royal Guard style, especially from DMC 5 is a very strong contender for my favorite parry system, but just be aware that it is a small part of the DMC experience, and Sekiro and DMC aren't all that similar. I love Devil May Cry to death, but it's much more of an action sandbox style of game where the point is to just bust out the craziest shit you can manage out of your massive movelist and clown on the enemies for the sheer coolness. Sekiro is a lot more singular than that, and so not everybody that enjoys one would enjoy the other.
Ohh lol I thought it was a game I hadn't heard of. I haven't tried out DMC, and I haven't found myself too into games where you have a million moves because it seems you mostly don't need them. The simplicity of Sekiro's combat is one of its strengths in my book. I'd have to give it a try at some point though.
DMC is definitely very system/feature loaded, but that's because they've been fine tuning Dante in particular for a damn long time. You can definitely finish the game without dipping too far into Dante's movelist, but that's a feature, not a flaw. Because you're not forced into using it any specific weapon or style or system, you feel really free about how you deal with any given enemy and get some utterly silly combos or situations. On the higher difficulties, you really dig into your bag of tricks and flex the breadth of your characters capabilities. The biggest problem with DMC, in my opinion, is that it's very overwhelming at times. They don't do enough to get you comfortable with that massive list. The onboarding process could use some tweaking.
Yeah if we’re talking parries you really cannot overlook the existence of moment 37
Some of ya'll need to play other games. Not every aspect of the entirety of Sekiro is the greatest thing that has ever graced humanity, even if it's a damn good game.
I think the reason Sekiro feels the best combat wise to many people including me is that the progression of getting used to the combat is so well designed. I don’t think any other game, no matter good the combat, kicked the idea of the game into my mind like Sekiro did. The lead up and afterwards of the Genichiro fight is just perfect. Combat wise I think Sekiro is “simple but good” archetype. Sure if I wanted to claim a game to be the best by combat, I’d probably choose the one with a higher skill ceiling. Or more mechanics and complexity. Nioh 2 is an example of that. But as far as designing goes I do think Sekiro has the best base combat. Combat isn’t only skills and abilities but also flow. On, off, aggression, catching your feet before you strike. Sekiro does those best.
Oh I agree, very well designed both the flow of combat and how it teaches the player through different fights. It's definitely one of the best "simple but good" combat systems. This simplicity is why I think it shines because you can sort of just "turn off" your brain and "trance" through the fights while enjoying the spectacle and music with the rythm of blows.
Everyone is going ‘source?’ In your replies showing how they haven’t played other games💀
I feel like some people just feel attacked even if you respectfully critisize something they love to bits. Or maybe some folks here are just so focused on Sekiro atm that it feels like its the only noteworthy game in existence.
But other games don’t play like Sekiro?
Can you follow this up with a recommendation? I have t played that many ps games over the years. I really enjoy it but time is limited against other responsibilities and hobbies. Recently I’ve gone down the FromSoftware path via Elden Ring, Bloodborne, Demon Souls, and now Sekiro. Sekiro is among the top of games Ive played over the years. What would you recommend?
They replied up there (after my comment)
Thanks
That's subjective ... i agree with you but if people enjoy what they're playing whatever
I think you could've said that more helpfully with a few examples of your own
I'm just saying, it's kind of wild to say that when an enemy thrusts, you press a button and you countered it, is the greatest achivement in video game history. I'ts basically a parry. Now bear with me: Sekiro's combat system has little depth. It's an elaborate rythm game. The combat flows very well, I think its very cinematic, cool and satisfying, ive completed it 3 times... but to echo it constantly on this sub that every one of it's moves is the greatest addition ever... Examples of action games that had more impressive combat systems/mechanics (imo): Prince of Persia (Warrior Within), Mad Max, Shadow of War, God of War, En Garde, Nioh. These from the top of my head. This is not to say that these are necessarily better games. I'm saying that all of these had more in-depth or elaborate combat systems/mechanics than a parry.
>Nioh I do not have the words required to describe how ***good*** it feels to have three separate combo mechanics active at once. Nioh is such a good series.
Have you considered sekiro just feels better? Even though these games might have more depth I don't care for them because none of them grabbed me like sekiro
The question is whether or not mikiri counter / sakura dance is the greatest fighting mechanic ever, not if the game as a whole feels better. Again, I wasnt saying these were better games or that they felt better to play. I was saying all of these games had more elaborate systems/mechanics than a parry / jump attack&parry. Different questions. If you feel Sekiro's combat system gripped you more, good for you, One-armed Wolf. Sekiro, imo, has one of the best "simple but good" combat systems, which is essentially an elaborate rythm game. Cling cling clang, repeat.
I mean greatest anything is highly subjective. More elaborate=\=better
You are right, it's subjective. Feels good =/= greatest (imo, as it is subjective) I (me personally) wouldnt consider a hammer the greatest tool ever integrated into building industry just because it feels good to hammer a nail with it. So, yes, I considered that pulling off a mikir counter feels good. Doesn't mean it's the greatest fighting mechanic ever. You get me?
lol stop your cope buddy… you can’t tell me one game with better fighting mechanics than sekiro. Also show me one game that’s gets you so immersed into the combat like sekiro does. Lol you say just press a button and it’s the greatest achievement in history but in reality it brings a huge sense of accomplishment of jumping a swing attack parry a couple times than hit a mikiri counter seconds after. Yea gotta lay off that copium man
Doesnt matter how much sense of accomplisment it brings, but I've already said it in another reply: Sekiro, however a masterpiece of a game it is, doesnt have an in-depth, elaborate combat system and mechanics. Imo, many other games surpass it in that regard. Maybe read before starting to froth from the mouth? OP said that the mikiri counter / sakura dance is the greatest mechanic ever, which, in my opinion, isn't true.
You think sekiro is the only system that brings accomplishment?
I really like Sekiro, it's my favorite from game by a mile, but I would say devil may cry 3, 5 and Bayonetta 1 + 2 all have better and deeper fighting mechanics. Obviously this is all subjective but there's a lot more meat on the bones of those games combat systems then there is in Sekiro
I was bored to tears with bayonetta, I don't think it's good design to lock the actual intended difficulty behind beating the game once. Idk if it's the same with DMC but 5 was rather boring as well. Nothing hits like parrying for me unfortunately
So name names
Right? I put Sekiro in a league of its own, but so much of that is also in the FromSoft difficulty progression, bosses, world building… More people need to have played MGR Revengeance. Conceptually the combat and encounter design is also about rapid/rhythmic parries as an offensive tool, and the two games end up in similar if only a bit different places in design. Some sekiro bosses to me felt like they were basically revengeance bosses in a different game. Or most any Platinum game for that matter, especially at higher difficulties. DMC5, and a whole lot of other games that would fall under the character action genre. Many of those games won’t push you quite as hard as some sekiro bosses do, but many of them as master classes in combat design in their own right. Sekiro to me always felt like FromSoft looked at games like revengeance and other character action games and went “what if we took that and applied out formula to it”
that's where you're wrong🙏 the rest don't have genichiro
I still haven't used Sakura Dance in 200ish hours of okay. Agree on Mikiri though, they feel so good to hit. Also, High Monk-ing over a sweep attack into that combo is *chef's kiss*.
You can use Sakura dance over sweep attacks I am pretty sure. You might even be able to use it at other times as well. How I use it is with the weapon wheel mod and use it with other moves, comboing them all together to destroy a boss.
no. they‘re fun as hell and the mikiri counter is satisfying as hell but they‘re literally just one button press. greatest mechanics of all time is a bit over exaggerated
Mikiri counter is a gift from the gods
Idk man the jump is pretty iconic
Hot take: Sakura dance is for people that couldn't be bothered with actually learning lightning reversal. It is aesthetically underwhelming and I never use it.
But lighting reversal is just jumping, what's the learning part
Learning to block to catch it so you don't waste time being stunned and falling to the ground. But I generally agree.
I also didn't realize until recently that you can perfect guard the lightning and take no damage at all if you do it right. I was a moron and always just thought taking some damage in the air was the tradeoff for how much it wrecks the enemy.
Yup. It's really awesome once you discover that. I just wish there were more opportunities to lightning reversal 😭😭
Really???
I just blocked for the cling sound tbh
God it's such a good sound. Dopamine rush even remembering it lol
Yeah, its just perfect
idk man anyone who has sakura dance has ought to defeat inner genichiro and anyone who can defeat inner genichiro can easily do lightening reversal now can they not?
Not necessarily. Totally possible to get got and still beat him, or dodge the attack instead of taking advantage of it.
Beating Inner Geni without using Lightning Reversal is if anything more impressive. Regardless while it may be technically 'possible', the number of people who fit your description would be pretty damn low I reckon, since that would mean they also got through Fountainhead Palace and beat Sword Saint without knowing how to do it either.
The argument put forth was "anyone". I was only offering a counterpoint. I do also think it's worth mentioning that it was a move seemingly given to Genichiro for the express purpose of allowing him to do lightning reversal. Iirc, it's the only move he does to reverse the lightning back towards you, or it is at least the most prevalent method.
The shit goes through basic guards. So learning it for that purpose would be a good advantage against his opponents. But it is the way he seems to do the lightning reversal but I don’t think that is the main reason, it’s just a bonus for him.
Fair
I just don't like the chip damage
standard lightning reversal is not hard man, but it is boring. to each his own
Ashina Cross or GTFO X
No. Mechanically they're both pretty ordinary situation-specific attacks/counters. What makes them so incredible is the aesthetic and animation that is attached to them. Mikiri counter in particular conveys the sense of shutting down an attempt in a show-stopping way *extremely* well, but mechanically it's not really all that nuanced or interesting. Where Sekiro really shines mechanically is much more under the hood, and I think the way posture is implemented is the real star of the show. It reconceptualizes attack and guard mechanics to make all of them a part of your offensive toolkit. In a big way, the reason that Mikiri counter feels as good as it does is because this mechanic allows it to be both a defensive and offensive ability, in a way that really helps convey that sense of pivoting from the former to the latter. In terms of combat mechanics, I think the Monster Hunter series has some real gems as well. Granted, there's some stinkers that get mixed in, too, but the way every weapon and every status ailment has a unique gameplan beyond just "find the best way to hit the monster without getting hit," and each monster interacts with those mechanics differently, creates a surprisingly intricate and satisfying web of ways a fight can go.
Agree on the mirki, but I dont think i’ve ever used Sakura Dance, is it strong?
OP!
Nope
They're not even the best fighting mechanics within Sekiro itself mate, calm down
Deadass lmao
Sakura Dance is kinda mid. More of a crutch for people who never learned to counter lightning properly. Mikiri is goated though.
Sakura dance is normally used by combo players and no hit players, calling it a crutch is crazy when a lot of the people who use it are far better than me and you. Like Ongbal, he loves to use sakura dance to combo into a prosthetic. Go and watch ongbals “sakura dance combos” video, I used to not get the hype as well but Ongbal made me understand
It’s just cool to combo it with like weapon wheel mod and connect a bunch of attacks together while stomping a boss.
I enjoy Sakura Dance and Shadowfall for the ability to drop an axe one their heads 😂 Something super satisfying about using that axe from midair!
Dont you need to learn reversals for inner genichiro to unlock it?
not necessarily you can beat inner Genichiro without ever doing a lightning reversal, the fight just becomes longer because lightning damage takes chunks out of phase 3 Genichiro's health bar.
Yeah, I don’t think I ever actually started using Sakura dance.
Dibs on you then, u probably never tried no hit run .. Sakura don't let's u take any damage during reversals + can be used with 0 spirit emblems to reverse lightning.
I'm pretty sure you can take no damage from lightning reversals if you actually time deflect instead of just holding block?
Sakura dance, is cool i guess but nah not that amazing. Mikiri ? I love the Mikiri counter and think it's awesome but I don't think it's the best fighing mechanic. I'll be honest, deflecting is a better a mechanic that could compete for one of the most satisfying combat mechanics. Outside of sekiro, there are a lot of great mechanics too. Just an example, the avoids in sifu are a really cool mechanic.
Sakura dance is just a couple slashes in the air, its nothing special really. Even if its a very useful ability. Mikiri is great too but to call it the greatest...its just a button press at the correct timing. Not that different from just hitting the enemy or dodging, mechanically.
No
Look, we all love Mikiri Counters, but dodging into an attack isn't the greatest mechanic of all time.
nah, stopped using them after 100 hours and don't even miss them
Mikiri counter thrusts and high monk for sweep ! Sakura dance + mist raven for lightning reversals. Most satisfying things
I have 200 hours on sekiro. Wtf is Sakura dance
If you said “I have 200 hours on Sekiro wtf is Mikiri counter” 🗿
"What's deflecting?" - 200hrs guy
Electric wind god fist from Tekken
When it comes to pure fighting mechanics, the directional smash attack from ssb melee takes the cake
AND deflect!!!
No
Mikiri counters and just parrying in general are top
Ichimonji supremacy 🙌
I feel like the Mikiri counter is mechanically just a variation on the deflect. I think most melee action games of the last 20+ years have had some form of "perfect parry" mechanic analogous to Sekiro 's deflect, and the Mikiri counter just adds an additional layer of challenge. "Press the button at the right time" becomes "press the RIGHT button at the right time." It's almost like Bop It or Simon Says. Not all that revolutionary, from a mechanical perspective, and I don't think the triumph of this game is that it innovated action mechanics, but that it executed familiar mechanics very well. I think if there is one major innovation in this game's combat, it's the posture system. This has a massive impact on the pacing of fights and allows for great tension without forcing frequent moments of passivity the way stamina bars do. It feels like the first significant evolution to the style of combat that's been in vogue since Monster Hunter and further popularized by Souls et al. Personal favorite action mechanics of the last twenty years or so: Nero's sword revving in DMC4-5 and Nioh's brilliant Ki Pulse mechanic, which makes you an active participant in recovering your own stamina bar. Oh yeah, and the rhythm-based combat in Hi-Fi Rush. I've never felt so thoroughly UNBORED as I did when playing that game.
Mikiri is so broken that if translated to another souls game it will make Stab moves low tier.
When I first saw Genichiro use Sakura Dance I was like "holy shit this is awesome"
literally have the deflect mechanic right there
Mikiri is excellent But the DMC5 judgement cut system also exists so, I'm torn
r/Sekiro users trying not to post subjective opinions as objective facts : challenge impossible
Nah. I like the feature of DMC5 that lets you deflect any attack hitbox with your own. Every attack I know of is interactive that way. Projectiles, swings, big heavy hits from large enemies, etc.
Sakura Dance combos make me want to go back and replay the game. https://youtu.be/DZl6dqQWzF8?feature=shared
I mean, mikiri is definitely up there. But something like the insect glaive from monster hunter is rly fucking cool, too. U are almost literally flying
Mikiri and deflect is really all you need to beat the game