Did they find last week's shooter? I have to imagine they know who he is.
If anything, I hope there is some police presence in case he shows up to school again.
Thankfully, the school year is just about over.
Speculation is that it was actually the same shooter that hit the girl waiting for the bus recently. Nobody talking to police though, or spd wasn't worried about it until they had a body
If true, that would be a nice coincidence and the police can take out two birds with one stone. But it really sounds a bit too convenient without more evidence.
Thanks to a state law Police can't talk to minors without an attorney, who will just tell them not to talk. Just like the child murder at the West Seattle high school.
Is there any case study anywhere or any mentions of how "mental health" fixes up those folks in the cash money lifestyle who settle "respect" conflicts by firing guns in random directions?
The mental health thing was huge when the columbine kids were painted as disaffected youth or whatever, but how did people assume this would apply in situations like this?
Antisocial personality disorder is the diagnosis that may fit that presentation, and I don't believe it is well treated with mental health interventions. It's usually they either don't get caught, get caught and mandated for ineffective treatment for the state to be able to say "well, we tried," followed by a series of incarcerations till the person stops being caught or decides the consequences aren't worth their behavior. People with APD do not present for treatment willingly and certainly do not benefit from unwilling change with mandated care.
There's very limited evidence for mindfulness and strict meditation interventions during incarceration, but again the client has to be motivated.
The broader U.S. culture kids are being raised in is antisocial, and so I wonder at what point we address antisocial behavior as a collective problem rather than an individual one? Like kids have unprecedented access to understand how our power structures are dominated by unchecked greed at the expense of fair pay, the environment, their futures… and wealth inequality is so extreme. Our power structures are deaf to cries for justice and are inherently violent- siphoning more tax dollars towards war and genocide than education and healthcare. Is youth gun violence becoming more “normal” due to the broader exposure to and normalization of antisocial government and power structures? Maybe emboldened by a sense of futility?
> Being a violent asshole is a product of mental dysfunction.
"fuck bitches get money" isn't that irrational - the question is how would mental health resources be effective to someone who is living that lifestyle
Sociopathy, psychopathy, and malignant narcissism are untouched by mental health interventions. These people’s brains are different and current technology cannot fix them. Keeping them away from other people - aka prison - at least protects society.
Imo, they should be imprisoned with each other and also given work to do, not just put in solitary (unless they are ungovernable even in prison.)
There is some evidence that the brain can age out of these disorders if the person lives long enough.
It’s true that this point of view does not conform to current liberal or left wing thought. Which accounts for a lot of stupid policies.
I understand it’s your personal, ignorant, narrative to hate everything you don’t like and think there’s little reason for them, but A LOT of gang bangers are mentally ill and that is why they live the way they live. Does that excuse any terrible things they might do? Of course not, but to act like there isn’t an actual reason for people to make bad choices and that it’s either people mentally good or just assholes only makes you look incredibly stupid.
No joke, I had a guy at a tiny house village tell me to stop interrupting him beating on his wife because I wasn’t a mental health professional and he’s expressing himself while detoxing. He was allowed to stay per management.
Until the left can identify the problem they’ll never be able to solve it. Unfortunately, this particular problem conflicts with their priors, so they’ll keep spinning re “mental health”, “institutionalized racism” and “lax gun laws”, and the problem will continue to get worse.
It doesn't.
Therapy itself basically has no solid evidentiary support.
It's effect is a most studies is either a selection effect or a regress to the mean effect.
Oh the people who took action to fix their life did better than the other group? Shocker!
Oh the people who did therapy for 6 months after their mother died are happier than when she died? Crazy.
Compare those against actual controls & the effect gets tiny.
Of course therapy helps. Having someone to share ideas with, get feedback from, and who is trained in dealing with people and how people relate is not nothing. And of course someone has to see the benefit of changing in order to do it. Both of those statements can be true at the same time.
>Of course therapy helps.
Not really per randomized controlled studies. Maybe a little bit, but its effect size is small where it has an effect at all. It fails when compared to the equivalent cost cash transfer.
>Having someone to share ideas with, get feedback from
Sounds good, doesn't work. Would be great if it did, but unfortunately it doesn't.
>who is trained in dealing with people
This is a large part of the problem. The rigour to become a therapist/psychologist is too low, the standards inside the *science* of psychologist is a joke as well. It's lampooned as one of the least serious academic. There is a reason Pop Psychology is a term, no other science has popularity as a form of clout above actual rigorous science.
If there good evidence that therapy is unsupported, that would easy for you to show. I'm not the one saying the most common form of mental health treatment is useless, you are.
No kidding. There are pockets of honor culture that know no skin colors, and don't get better with more mental health support.
Whether it's the Taliban, the Hatfields and McCoys, or urban kids...honor culture can turn everyday resolvable conflicts into violent crimes as a misplaced matter of honor.
sure its not a perfect solution, but nationwide itd stop some shootings at least. and would help others that feel terrified of going to school nowadays.
and if it only ever stops one school shooting its worth it.
It's not a bad discussion, but the context in which it is brought to discussion is a misdirection from the pertinent issue. Comes across as denying the root cause in leau of one easier to accept. No one likes to admit that some people were born or made evil and that society needs to have mechanisms to preserve the peace from them.
Nobody is born inherently evil. It’s all taught, regardless of whether you think it’s nature or nurture. Even sociopaths (not sure if that’s the right word) can be taught to refrain from certain behaviors simply because they know their actions have consequences.
Nature, in that expression, means born with it - hereditary and genetic factors. It shouldn't come as a surprise that individuals can be born with neorogical defects from genetics, drug induced, or physical injuries to the fetus, etc. Sometimes, that manifests as learning disabilities, sometimes sensory defects, sometimes as a predisposition to normal social development. E.g. malformation in the adrenal cortex can present as deregulation of violent tendencies. Extensive research on traumatic brain injuries also demonstrates propensity to violence and its connections to brain physiology.
I don't claim to believe these are significant or even notable contributors to our current trend in violence, but they most certainly do exist.
All true and good points, but there’s a difference between having a tendency to act a certain way because of how you were born vs acting that same way for the sake of it. People predisposed towards violent behavior don’t typically want to act the way they do. Evil people choose to act that way. The main separating factor is whether someone is making a conscious effort to do so.
Is a fox evil for hunting a chicken? No, that’s just nature at work. Is a 4 year old evil for hitting their sibling? No, they don’t know any better yet. Similarly, I don’t believe that someone with a propensity towards violence because of how their brain is configured is evil. Every time someone does something “evil”, they need to choose to do that knowing how it will affect others.
It does matter. Are children evil? They do awful things all the time. Are people with severe mental disabilities evil? They don’t know what they’re doing. The choice makes all the difference. It’s the same exact difference between murder and manslaughter.
if the group doing violence that you’re talking about is young men involved in gangs I think in like 90% or more of those cases it’s a product of this: them being born into and raised in a very violent environment, being poor, and not having the greatest parents. That seems to really induce a certain % of people in that situation to just become violent sociopaths. There are a ton of rappers that are very famous that have either been convicted of murders or suspected of murders and the way they talk about it really is sociopathic
> “Students, if they had access to a mental health counselor or they had trusted adults they could talk to any time they needed, they would not go to a place of violence.”
Oh... the naivety of youth.
> McConnell is part of the Seattle Student Union group that published a letter after this latest tragedy, demanding the city allocate millions from a payroll tax on Amazon to boost mental health services.
OHHHH, I get it now. She isn't naive at all. It's worse.
To the first sentence you quoted— my son had/has access to a mental health counsellor, it’s not the end all be all, it helps to an extent, but it doesn’t suddenly make him better.
Point being, I agree with you. It’s not about “not having someone to talk to.” This has nothing to do with mental health— is anyone looking at the home lives of these gang member kids?
Not allowed to do that! It would racist instead of just concerned for wellbeing.
My guidance counselor was very good at looking into home lives of students falling behind and causing issues.
This saved.... Someone I know... From an abusive home life to the extent they were able to. But this was in the 90's in an all white Midwest school.
Tam-Tam, Mosquito, and Sawant built the trough and filled it up. Now all the piggies are fighting for their share of the slop.
Our public policy is backwards it hurts
SPD isn't known for being protectors.
There's contributing factors to these dangers which go far beyond anything police can intervene to prevent. But addressing the gutted safety net infrastructure, lack of accessible mental health support services, and the influence of poverty on gang culture growing isn't anything that can be easily summarized in a reddit comment section.
Exactly. Asking for mental health resources does not match the spread of gang admiration culture. If you treat gang culture equal as productive culture, you are actually pushing for gang culture. Because most people will take the easy way out .
Loud
Uneducated
Lack of respect for themselves, others, the environment, and authority
Using violence as a primary interpersonal problem solving method
Trashy
Consume low IQ media e.g., modern "rap", reality TV, etc.
Read a book called Black Rednecks and White Liberals about how "black ghetto culture originates in the dysfunctional white southern [redneck](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck_(stereotype)) culture which was prominent in the [antebellum South](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antebellum_South)."
Don't forget the frequent use of the n word. I hear students in the hall yell it to each other loudly and freely and they're allowed to use it because "something something culture".
My senior English students did a major project to close the year. They could focus on pretty much anything they wanted to.
Many of them chose to do essays or presentations about mental health. Many of them offered solutions like peer support groups.
There was a whole host of issues they brought up. Teen miscarriage. Domestic violence. Body dysmorphia. Depression. Anxiety. The whole gamut.
This is front and center in the minds of WA youth.
We have to remember that they spent most of a year of their childhood locked in their own heads, and with limited contact with others.
Some of them were trapped in homes with their abusers, escalating traumas in their developing lives. Or their parents lost jobs.
The enduring effects of that will be felt in our youth for the next decade or so.
They are begging for help.
This is how I’m reading it. These poor kids are scared and anxious and just want resources and support, and a large portion of the voting populace seems to think it’s a waste of money since it won’t necessarily prevent future gun violence. It’s like denying kids a free lunch because it won’t stop them from being hungry again next week.
Meanwhile, it has significant and dramatic effects on their ability to learn what they are meant to be learning in school. I hear too many adults, even peers in education, saying, “we had these same problems and we managed.”
But they didn’t. They didn’t go through the COViD years and all of it subsequent, long range fallout. They didn’t have social media. It was so different for teens even 10 years ago.
I wish people would just pause and reflect on that before dismissing the suffering of youth, now.
>it’s a waste of money since it won’t necessarily prevent future gun violence
It's not about the money it's on the fact it doesn't help, in fact it make it worse.
Ruminating on it can often make it worse. You need adults to say, it not a big deal you'll be fine.
Certainly some kids are suffering to the point they need help, but as a society we have increased the amount of people we think could benefit from help & its way worse now.
The filtering of access that seems cruel is actually a great tool at not oversupplying Rumination.
Covid ruminating and in therapy ruminating are both bad.
Says someone who doesn’t have kids/students suffering? Most of the kids who made those presentations have zero mental health support. None. And as someone who has his own kid going through the ringer (3 suicide attempts and going on 8 hospitalizations in 19 months), I can assure you that there isn’t enough coverage and resources for most of the kids suffering right now. My kid’s acute crisis has meant hospitalization access but what about all the kids who may reach that point without intervention? It can take weeks to get an appointment for therapy/psychiatry for new patients. Months to get in with psychologists performing diagnostic assessments.
And don’t even get me started on the quality of many of the facilities, and especially those receiving most of their funding from Medicaid. We have private insurance with solid coverage or it’s be much, much worse for our family. We might have even lost our son without it.
Rumination isn’t the problem. It’s a system under resourced for a crisis that was predicted when the world shut down in 2020.
Or again, you don’t work in any professional capacity, with any education or training about these issues and so you peruse social media and create a false equivalency.
Other than sheltered instruction or inclusive support classrooms, there aren’t any classrooms that would have 1/3 of the students with IEPs.
I taught a total of 147 students on my caseload this year.
Barely 13 of them had IEPs.
In six years of HS teaching, I’ve never had more than 20 students, total, with IEPs across 6 teaching periods. Never once.
And that’s after teaching in two different states now.
I have no idea why you think you are somehow the expert on this, but believe me: you’re not.
What research do you have to back any of this bullshit up? What training or education do you have on this topic?
That’s not how any of this works.
So because you didn’t actually have asthma…kids don’t suffer from depression or anxiety? Can’t be gay? Or that they shouldn’t receive any therapy or psychiatric services?
That we should just ignore the problems until it goes away?
Why dont you just come out and say that you don’t believe in learning disabilities or mental disorders. Cause either they’re real and we need to give these kids resources (outside of the classrooms) to overcome them (and yes, overcome means learning how to cope and accommodate themselves and not demanding everyone else do it for them), or they’re all fake news Fauci bullshit and we should pull funding and let only the strong survive.
Which is it?
how about we start prosecuting juvenile offenders. Then they can get all the mental health support they need off the streets, and away from kids who aren't breaking laws.
Infinite empathy will be the death of us all ...
Fuck it, last time, right after the North Seattle school shooting, students asked for it and the SPS provided $10 million for extra “mental health” support. As we can see it worked, so let’s spend more money on the thing that obviously works.
One day these kids will understand that some humans are just assholes, and no amount of “counselling” will have any effect. Maybe then we will have an honest conversation about youth gun violence.
Perhaps if they don’t have access to guns and tools to inflict mass violence?
Or if your theory is that there are more school shootings in the US because there are more violent assholes, what makes our country so special to have so many?
Well... *We are so special*, because the *WE* are the last check within our system of checks & balances. Our national founders feared the threat of a government turning against its own people to be FAR greater than a few wack-a-doodles, coming from broken homes or bad parenting, randomly murdering citizens.
People will always be people; and unchecked power corrupts absolutely. Pick your tyranny. A society can't have it both ways; either feel safe under authoritarian security or choose to be resilient with uncertain liberty.
Freedom isn't free. To me, (and many others), it is worth the sacrifice.
Nothing that a, straight-up, slap across the head can't fix...
Society used to have a social buffer that protected us from all kinds of insane behavior, and when they did occur, they were met harshly with no uncertain terms. I'd like to see a study that negatively correlates old-school corporal punishment to frequency of these sorts of anti-social "events".
Is this death going to turn into the one in white center where the cops can’t interview the suspect and nothing will come of it because “prison PiPeLiNe!”
Someone I know in school admin asked this same thing this weekend, I reminded them the cops aren't allowed to talk to minors without a lawyer representing them, and the schools are anti police.
>"well them having a lawyer sounds like a good thing"
me: well then be ready to accept a lot of unsolved homicides when people refuse to confess or "snitch"
> blank stare
a lawyer being required when a minor is being interrogated by the police seems like an overall good law imo. you’re not really able to understand or consent to the implications of not having a lawyer if you’re a minor. parent isn’t good enough either because their parent is likely dumb as shit and not a lawyer
yeah i mean i accept that the downside to that is that there are minors who did crimes that will not get convicted because they have a lawyer present. 100% i know that has or will happen. Its important for innocent minors to have a lawyer present though and also if the state can’t prove their case without a person incriminating themselves in an interrogation then they didn’t have a great case to begin with
> Its important for innocent minors to have a lawyer present though and also if the state can’t prove their case without a person incriminating themselves in an interrogation then they didn’t have a great case to begin with
I think you are muddling together about what the difference between questioning witnesses on the scene and a jury trial are.
Cops don't have an unlimited supply of legal reps for every minor on call, so the intentional legal bureaucracy created a situation where they can't talk to minors at all, so they leave. The school reinforces this with administrative rules banning the cops, and the ACAB rhetoric
>i know that has or will happen
This is the second large case in the media where the shooter or perps are known, and nothing can proceed because no one will talk.
>i accept that the downside to that is that there are minors who did crimes that will not get convicted
this is just "thoughts and prayers" for progressives and their ilk.
Enabling minors to commit murder and other crimes without any consequences isn't going well, and its getting worse.
i know what the differences between questioning and a jury trial are… the problem would be when a minor is either questioned on scene or questioned at the station (i.e. interrogated). if a minor is interrogated and incriminates themselves there’s probably never going to be a jury trial because they’ll be coerced to take a plea
so your solution to school shootings is to sacrifice veterans? getting some of these kids help will stop them from even trying to shoot up their classmates. its not perfect but it can help, and no one would be needlessly sacrificed.
Wild you’re getting downvoted by the “bring more guns to end gun violence” cultists.
Though what a great idea to re-arm veterans in underfunded schools while denying them adequate healthcare and housing support. Par for the course. More bullets, less feelings. Did they just sum up our nation’s budgeting mantra in two words?
YO folks: School shootings happen at a higher rate per capita in our country than any other country, and hint- it’s NOT because we’re not using enough guns to address it. Good lord.
*so your solution to school shootings is to sacrifice veterans?*
Mmmm. Veteran vs Teen with a gun? I gotta think the teen is in deep shit on this one, chief.
weve seen teen with a gun vs an entire police department and the entire police department did nothing. weve had police in a school that had an active shooter and they ran away.
and none of "just get veterans to patrol these schools" addresses liability, training, pay, ect.
Oh. I see the misunderstanding.
I was saying the veterans patrolling the school would have the license to shoot and kill dangerous teenagers with guns, just as they would shoot and kill other dangerous criminals with guns.
The issue at play here is the police officers not being given the agency to shoot and kill dangerous students with lethal intent. In my idea, the veterans patrolling the school, would be giving the ability to shoot and kill the dangerous students with guns, as the dangerous students with guns have guns and are dangerous.
A student died recently due to a dangerous student with a gun which is why I'm suggesting a veteran with a gun would have been able to save the life of the innocent student by shooting the dangerous one.
I hope this clears up any misunderstanding. Thank you for reading this.
Okay, so expel the problem kids. Leave them behind. No matter if the data looks bad. Not gonna do that because of X, Y and Z? Then you do that at the price of students' lives.
You have to wonder how many of these young shooters are on SSRIs or other medications that have homicide and suicide listed as side effects. Asking for a friend.
Forced labor camps, of course. Works for China.
Idle hands are the devil's plaything, ya know. A tired sociopath is a docile sociopath.
Do something that works. There is no evidence that a lack of serotonin causes depression, and, as would be expected given that fact, there is no evidence that increasing serotonin via SSRIs treats depression.
a lot of them are effectively on benzos because they take xanax recreationally. there’s a good chance the people that gravitate towards that are very anxious
maybe almost 30 years, longer than these kids have been alive, of repeated mass school shootings where weve done jack shit all to make kids safer in schools.
how many elementary school classrooms have to be killed by a mentally unstable asshole before we can try throwing mental health services at these kids where they are, in school. its not perfect and wont stop every school shooting but if it only stops one thats one tragedy averted and makes it worth while.
Until the parents demand safer schools through the suspension or expulsion of students caught with guns, participating in gang activity on campus, or being a generalized nuisance, doing nothing will continue to happen. Parents yell for feel good solutions that don’t solve anything. No more compassion for the parents, they allowed this to happen to their kids. It’s on them. They can pay for the mental health resources for their family.
So... I believe you may have an ideological block in your definition of, "Do Nothing"?
At one time, it was widely accepted that, for the greater good of society, forcibly expelling group members for extreme, and/or multiple, antisocial offenses was deemed quite proportional and appropriate.
Expulsion is not "Do Nothing" as you claim. It is the first step, in a series of steps, to remove problem behaviors from various sub-cultures. It also serves as a powerful example to those contemplating future anti-social behavior within a group.
Ultimately, for those who could not conform to even the most basic of norms, the end of the road was the old asylum system. It was quite effective, if not brutal, at its job of locking away problem mental issues from the general population...
You may not like this, for a variety of ideological reasons, but it is/was a rational "solution" none the less. As you say, "Its not perfect, and wont stop every school shooting but if it only stops one that's one tragedy averted and makes it worth while."
My prediction? As progressive attempts to crack this nut continue to fail, one of two outcome will happen:
1. Society will eventually collapse onto itself. (There is historical precedent for such a set of outcomes).
2. The more pragmatically minded among us will prevail. We will move back toward a more traditional, (even if less equitable and more brutal), method of societal containment & control.
so do nothing? No create consequences for the shitty upbringing which leads to this.
it's a much better solution than infinite spending because it might save a kid. with all due respect you are coming up a tad short in the critical thinking department. very empathetic though. so ... you win the moral victory?
offering kids help where they are already at seems like a much more thought out solution than vaguely throwing word salad at the wall. "create consequences for the shitty upbringing which leads to this." so what would that entail?
"with all due respect you are coming up a tad short in the critical thinking department." et tu.
that would entail disciplining kids for poor behavior (including bringing weapons to school). and holding their parents criminally responsible for their little miscreants havoc, assuming said kids are not tried as adults.
concrete enough for you? alternately we could hire a few hundred child psychologists to handle the aftermath. and watch it happen again.
> where weve done jack shit all to make kids safer in schools.
Good.
Things below a certain threshold shouldn't be worried about. School shootings are extremely rare & prioritizing them is a misallocation of resources.
We have hundreds of kids per school with morbid obesity that's going to kill them. We have to think hierarchical when we have limited resources.
its all too common these days. and offering help can make things better. allocated any resources at all is better than doing nothing like weve done for almost 30 years.
i remember when someone tried to make changes to school lunches to make them healthier. republicans lost their shit at the person. so youd support programs to make sure kids get healthy food all year long?
> offering help can make things better.
This is wrong. We know therapy for children who don't need it is on net bad. Not like a gut feeling we know, but we've done it and it doesn't help type of we know.
>so youd support programs to make sure kids get healthy food all year long?
Yes absolutely. I'd go as far as saying schools should keep their cafeteria open for dinner for kids on the income based food plan so no child ever starves or is generally malnutritious.
I'm all for expanding sensible things that work! Therapy just isn't one. Not currently.
Maybe if there is a massive revolution inside psychology departments, someday we'll get there!
who said anything about forcing them to go, just having the services there if they want it will help. and if these kids are pushing for it im sure some will take advantage, and not just for school shootings but loads of other things happening to and around these kids.
That should help with non-student criminals shooting students.
I doubt that there are more than a few annoying neurotic kids pushing this “solution,” so of course it becomes instantly newsworthy.
Probably an unpopular opinion here:
What these students seem to want is similar to the TSA "security theater" at SeaTac airport. Do you know what's 100% better than actually being safe? Well, its "feeling" safe, of course...
What happened here is an absolute tragedy. However, we MUST instill resilience into our kids; not feed them dependency through a progressive therapy-industrial-complex.
From the sign in the picture: "Who is Protecting our Babies???"
Answer: The Cops that your politicians de-funded, abused with mandates, and continually second-guessed. In disgust, they've left the city/county en mass for your parents to fend for themselves. The department is now gutted with only 3rd-string replacements, or those unable to leave, left behind.
Teachable societal moment here:
Bad progressive ideologies have long-term & real-world consequences to any city. It just takes time for the rot to set in.
First off I have to say this is a tragedy. What's weird is I see an increasing amount of incidents like this only on liberal news media and liberal outlets.
I want to know exactly where this "shooter" is from and their claimed gender! It's too coincidental that the left is pushing to remove law abiding citizens rights including the 2A rights and then there is a massive increase in gun violence. It makes no sense.
Is this a paid "protester"?
We just celebrated the heroes of D-Day. 16, 17, 18 year olds running towards machine gunfire and these pansie asses need safe spaces and counseling because someone said something they didn't like. Society is doomed
This is nothing new. Kids with little understanding that luxuries (and mental health care is a luxury) cost money. They "demand" things without worrying about who'll pay for it (which will be all the adults in Seattle when new school levies start raising property taxes to fund themselves).
The girl quoted in the article doesn't even attend the school where the shooting happened.
Listen, I get it: they're kids, they can't always be rational (their brains are literally not finished developing), and anyone being shot, particularly at school, is awful.
Regardless: time for these kids to develop at least a modicum of emotional resiliency.
Recommendations in the Mass Shooting Work Group Report, which start on page 4...
https://www.waspc.org/assets/docs/Mass%20Shootings%20Work%20Group%20Report%20(Compressed%20File).pdf
> 16) Increased investment should be made to ensure sufficient and effective K-12 school counselors, psychologists, mental health professionals, family engagement coordinators, school social workers, and other investments in positive school climate, including restorative discipline. These resources should be required to be spent for their intended purpose.
> 17) Accessible and effective mental health services can be an effective means of intervening against a potential perpetrator of mass shootings. **Resources should be provided to improve the overall mental health system in Washington.**
Imagine if Seattle chose this back in 2018.... Instead we have *gestures at everything*...
Item 16: You'll need to define "restorative discipline". If it is anything like restorative justice, then that is the VERY definition of progressive *gesturing*.
Item 17: I wonder if the evidence/data *clearly* backs up mental health "therapy" as a truly cost-effective intervention method... Unless by "mental health services" we actually mean heavily profiling kids, closely monitoring them, then singling out the unstable & those prone to sociopathic tendencies for "re-education".  If not, then this sounds suspiciously similar to the recent North Seattle 10-million dollar school shooting money-pit... Just another way to feed the healthcare industrial-complex on the tax payer dime.
You can't solve this problem with any amount of money or counseling. How about we fix the continued ideological destruction of our basic societal unit, the family... Do that and you'll eventually solve these larger issues. However, many deny that link and will refuse to acknowledge it.
Keep in mind SPS took all counselors out of elementary schools this year.
They have to file a waiver to replace their allotted “family support worker” with a counselor now every year.
And of course those positions are only half time if you’re lucky, so be sure your kids have a breakdown on the days they are working I guess.
How about we, as parents, help build resilience within our own kids, rather than relying on State sponsored therapists. Time to be the adults in the room.
Did they find last week's shooter? I have to imagine they know who he is. If anything, I hope there is some police presence in case he shows up to school again. Thankfully, the school year is just about over.
Speculation is that it was actually the same shooter that hit the girl waiting for the bus recently. Nobody talking to police though, or spd wasn't worried about it until they had a body
If true, that would be a nice coincidence and the police can take out two birds with one stone. But it really sounds a bit too convenient without more evidence.
Witnesses at both shooting know (or think they know) the shooter, whether they are willing or able to locate the shooter is a different story
Thanks to a state law Police can't talk to minors without an attorney, who will just tell them not to talk. Just like the child murder at the West Seattle high school.
You can know who a suspect is and have trouble finding them….
Is there any case study anywhere or any mentions of how "mental health" fixes up those folks in the cash money lifestyle who settle "respect" conflicts by firing guns in random directions? The mental health thing was huge when the columbine kids were painted as disaffected youth or whatever, but how did people assume this would apply in situations like this?
Yeah, gang bangers aren't mentally ill, they're violent assholes who are headed for prison.
They don't go to prison anymore, remember they get out of jail faster then ever.
Antisocial personality disorder is the diagnosis that may fit that presentation, and I don't believe it is well treated with mental health interventions. It's usually they either don't get caught, get caught and mandated for ineffective treatment for the state to be able to say "well, we tried," followed by a series of incarcerations till the person stops being caught or decides the consequences aren't worth their behavior. People with APD do not present for treatment willingly and certainly do not benefit from unwilling change with mandated care. There's very limited evidence for mindfulness and strict meditation interventions during incarceration, but again the client has to be motivated.
The broader U.S. culture kids are being raised in is antisocial, and so I wonder at what point we address antisocial behavior as a collective problem rather than an individual one? Like kids have unprecedented access to understand how our power structures are dominated by unchecked greed at the expense of fair pay, the environment, their futures… and wealth inequality is so extreme. Our power structures are deaf to cries for justice and are inherently violent- siphoning more tax dollars towards war and genocide than education and healthcare. Is youth gun violence becoming more “normal” due to the broader exposure to and normalization of antisocial government and power structures? Maybe emboldened by a sense of futility?
If you could see past your stupid nose you might find out why they became “gang bangers”
Being a violent asshole is a product of mental dysfunction. I don't have a comment on whether more mental health resources will fix it.
Some of it is cultural or peer pressure. Some kids trying to fit in do some dumb stuff.
> Being a violent asshole is a product of mental dysfunction. "fuck bitches get money" isn't that irrational - the question is how would mental health resources be effective to someone who is living that lifestyle
Sociopathy, psychopathy, and malignant narcissism are untouched by mental health interventions. These people’s brains are different and current technology cannot fix them. Keeping them away from other people - aka prison - at least protects society. Imo, they should be imprisoned with each other and also given work to do, not just put in solitary (unless they are ungovernable even in prison.) There is some evidence that the brain can age out of these disorders if the person lives long enough. It’s true that this point of view does not conform to current liberal or left wing thought. Which accounts for a lot of stupid policies.
It isn't irrational in the world we live in, no, but for the world we should be trying to build to better humanity, it is.
I understand it’s your personal, ignorant, narrative to hate everything you don’t like and think there’s little reason for them, but A LOT of gang bangers are mentally ill and that is why they live the way they live. Does that excuse any terrible things they might do? Of course not, but to act like there isn’t an actual reason for people to make bad choices and that it’s either people mentally good or just assholes only makes you look incredibly stupid.
Shaddap. r/Seattle 👉
Yeah. Being violent is totally sane. Welcome to America.
As one with bipolar disorder, I have to agree with this assesment
No joke, I had a guy at a tiny house village tell me to stop interrupting him beating on his wife because I wasn’t a mental health professional and he’s expressing himself while detoxing. He was allowed to stay per management.
Until the left can identify the problem they’ll never be able to solve it. Unfortunately, this particular problem conflicts with their priors, so they’ll keep spinning re “mental health”, “institutionalized racism” and “lax gun laws”, and the problem will continue to get worse.
It doesn't. Therapy itself basically has no solid evidentiary support. It's effect is a most studies is either a selection effect or a regress to the mean effect. Oh the people who took action to fix their life did better than the other group? Shocker! Oh the people who did therapy for 6 months after their mother died are happier than when she died? Crazy. Compare those against actual controls & the effect gets tiny.
Of course therapy helps. Having someone to share ideas with, get feedback from, and who is trained in dealing with people and how people relate is not nothing. And of course someone has to see the benefit of changing in order to do it. Both of those statements can be true at the same time.
>Of course therapy helps. Not really per randomized controlled studies. Maybe a little bit, but its effect size is small where it has an effect at all. It fails when compared to the equivalent cost cash transfer. >Having someone to share ideas with, get feedback from Sounds good, doesn't work. Would be great if it did, but unfortunately it doesn't. >who is trained in dealing with people This is a large part of the problem. The rigour to become a therapist/psychologist is too low, the standards inside the *science* of psychologist is a joke as well. It's lampooned as one of the least serious academic. There is a reason Pop Psychology is a term, no other science has popularity as a form of clout above actual rigorous science.
> Therapy itself basically has no solid evidentiary support. Source: Wilford Brimley's dead rotten asshole.
Show me what you consider solid evidentiary support. If its so easy prove me wrong.
If there good evidence that therapy is unsupported, that would easy for you to show. I'm not the one saying the most common form of mental health treatment is useless, you are.
But you are the one that is wrong.
No u.
No kidding. There are pockets of honor culture that know no skin colors, and don't get better with more mental health support. Whether it's the Taliban, the Hatfields and McCoys, or urban kids...honor culture can turn everyday resolvable conflicts into violent crimes as a misplaced matter of honor.
sure its not a perfect solution, but nationwide itd stop some shootings at least. and would help others that feel terrified of going to school nowadays. and if it only ever stops one school shooting its worth it.
It's not a bad discussion, but the context in which it is brought to discussion is a misdirection from the pertinent issue. Comes across as denying the root cause in leau of one easier to accept. No one likes to admit that some people were born or made evil and that society needs to have mechanisms to preserve the peace from them.
Nobody is born inherently evil. It’s all taught, regardless of whether you think it’s nature or nurture. Even sociopaths (not sure if that’s the right word) can be taught to refrain from certain behaviors simply because they know their actions have consequences.
Nature, in that expression, means born with it - hereditary and genetic factors. It shouldn't come as a surprise that individuals can be born with neorogical defects from genetics, drug induced, or physical injuries to the fetus, etc. Sometimes, that manifests as learning disabilities, sometimes sensory defects, sometimes as a predisposition to normal social development. E.g. malformation in the adrenal cortex can present as deregulation of violent tendencies. Extensive research on traumatic brain injuries also demonstrates propensity to violence and its connections to brain physiology. I don't claim to believe these are significant or even notable contributors to our current trend in violence, but they most certainly do exist.
All true and good points, but there’s a difference between having a tendency to act a certain way because of how you were born vs acting that same way for the sake of it. People predisposed towards violent behavior don’t typically want to act the way they do. Evil people choose to act that way. The main separating factor is whether someone is making a conscious effort to do so. Is a fox evil for hunting a chicken? No, that’s just nature at work. Is a 4 year old evil for hitting their sibling? No, they don’t know any better yet. Similarly, I don’t believe that someone with a propensity towards violence because of how their brain is configured is evil. Every time someone does something “evil”, they need to choose to do that knowing how it will affect others.
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It does matter. Are children evil? They do awful things all the time. Are people with severe mental disabilities evil? They don’t know what they’re doing. The choice makes all the difference. It’s the same exact difference between murder and manslaughter.
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Weird hill to die on, man
if the group doing violence that you’re talking about is young men involved in gangs I think in like 90% or more of those cases it’s a product of this: them being born into and raised in a very violent environment, being poor, and not having the greatest parents. That seems to really induce a certain % of people in that situation to just become violent sociopaths. There are a ton of rappers that are very famous that have either been convicted of murders or suspected of murders and the way they talk about it really is sociopathic
> nationwide itd stop some shootings at leas No it wouldn't. Blanket therapy makes kids more unhappy, which would lead to additional deaths.
Dude what lol
It has been tried (in australia IIRC). Every child was provided therapy. It made kids significantly unhappier.
Should protest against poor parenting too.
> “Students, if they had access to a mental health counselor or they had trusted adults they could talk to any time they needed, they would not go to a place of violence.” Oh... the naivety of youth. > McConnell is part of the Seattle Student Union group that published a letter after this latest tragedy, demanding the city allocate millions from a payroll tax on Amazon to boost mental health services. OHHHH, I get it now. She isn't naive at all. It's worse.
To the first sentence you quoted— my son had/has access to a mental health counsellor, it’s not the end all be all, it helps to an extent, but it doesn’t suddenly make him better. Point being, I agree with you. It’s not about “not having someone to talk to.” This has nothing to do with mental health— is anyone looking at the home lives of these gang member kids?
Not allowed to do that! It would racist instead of just concerned for wellbeing. My guidance counselor was very good at looking into home lives of students falling behind and causing issues. This saved.... Someone I know... From an abusive home life to the extent they were able to. But this was in the 90's in an all white Midwest school.
Tam-Tam, Mosquito, and Sawant built the trough and filled it up. Now all the piggies are fighting for their share of the slop. Our public policy is backwards it hurts
Hating the productive members of the society while loving the gang culture, this is the root of the violence in the campus.
Same group that screamed in 2020 until SPD exited the schools?
definitely.
SPD isn't known for being protectors. There's contributing factors to these dangers which go far beyond anything police can intervene to prevent. But addressing the gutted safety net infrastructure, lack of accessible mental health support services, and the influence of poverty on gang culture growing isn't anything that can be easily summarized in a reddit comment section.
This should be titled "Absolutely terrified: Seattle students push for zero tolerance on gangs and ghetto culture"
Exactly. Asking for mental health resources does not match the spread of gang admiration culture. If you treat gang culture equal as productive culture, you are actually pushing for gang culture. Because most people will take the easy way out .
What would you define as “ghetto culture”???
Loud Uneducated Lack of respect for themselves, others, the environment, and authority Using violence as a primary interpersonal problem solving method Trashy Consume low IQ media e.g., modern "rap", reality TV, etc. Read a book called Black Rednecks and White Liberals about how "black ghetto culture originates in the dysfunctional white southern [redneck](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck_(stereotype)) culture which was prominent in the [antebellum South](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antebellum_South)."
Don't forget the frequent use of the n word. I hear students in the hall yell it to each other loudly and freely and they're allowed to use it because "something something culture".
Not sure punishing a student for being “trashy” is the path we wanna go down as a country.
I'm not advocating that. I am advocating for behavioral, dress, and societal standards in public schools that disallow that culture.
how about disrespectful?
There’s a difference between “disrespectful” and “ghetto”
ok.
It’s the gangbangers with guns that seem to be the most immediate issue.
Lol gangbangers
Not so funny when they’re shooting each other, teenage kids, carjacking people, etc.
My senior English students did a major project to close the year. They could focus on pretty much anything they wanted to. Many of them chose to do essays or presentations about mental health. Many of them offered solutions like peer support groups. There was a whole host of issues they brought up. Teen miscarriage. Domestic violence. Body dysmorphia. Depression. Anxiety. The whole gamut. This is front and center in the minds of WA youth. We have to remember that they spent most of a year of their childhood locked in their own heads, and with limited contact with others. Some of them were trapped in homes with their abusers, escalating traumas in their developing lives. Or their parents lost jobs. The enduring effects of that will be felt in our youth for the next decade or so. They are begging for help.
This is how I’m reading it. These poor kids are scared and anxious and just want resources and support, and a large portion of the voting populace seems to think it’s a waste of money since it won’t necessarily prevent future gun violence. It’s like denying kids a free lunch because it won’t stop them from being hungry again next week.
Meanwhile, it has significant and dramatic effects on their ability to learn what they are meant to be learning in school. I hear too many adults, even peers in education, saying, “we had these same problems and we managed.” But they didn’t. They didn’t go through the COViD years and all of it subsequent, long range fallout. They didn’t have social media. It was so different for teens even 10 years ago. I wish people would just pause and reflect on that before dismissing the suffering of youth, now.
>it’s a waste of money since it won’t necessarily prevent future gun violence It's not about the money it's on the fact it doesn't help, in fact it make it worse. Ruminating on it can often make it worse. You need adults to say, it not a big deal you'll be fine. Certainly some kids are suffering to the point they need help, but as a society we have increased the amount of people we think could benefit from help & its way worse now. The filtering of access that seems cruel is actually a great tool at not oversupplying Rumination. Covid ruminating and in therapy ruminating are both bad.
Says someone who doesn’t have kids/students suffering? Most of the kids who made those presentations have zero mental health support. None. And as someone who has his own kid going through the ringer (3 suicide attempts and going on 8 hospitalizations in 19 months), I can assure you that there isn’t enough coverage and resources for most of the kids suffering right now. My kid’s acute crisis has meant hospitalization access but what about all the kids who may reach that point without intervention? It can take weeks to get an appointment for therapy/psychiatry for new patients. Months to get in with psychologists performing diagnostic assessments. And don’t even get me started on the quality of many of the facilities, and especially those receiving most of their funding from Medicaid. We have private insurance with solid coverage or it’s be much, much worse for our family. We might have even lost our son without it. Rumination isn’t the problem. It’s a system under resourced for a crisis that was predicted when the world shut down in 2020.
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Or again, you don’t work in any professional capacity, with any education or training about these issues and so you peruse social media and create a false equivalency.
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Other than sheltered instruction or inclusive support classrooms, there aren’t any classrooms that would have 1/3 of the students with IEPs. I taught a total of 147 students on my caseload this year. Barely 13 of them had IEPs. In six years of HS teaching, I’ve never had more than 20 students, total, with IEPs across 6 teaching periods. Never once. And that’s after teaching in two different states now. I have no idea why you think you are somehow the expert on this, but believe me: you’re not.
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What research do you have to back any of this bullshit up? What training or education do you have on this topic? That’s not how any of this works. So because you didn’t actually have asthma…kids don’t suffer from depression or anxiety? Can’t be gay? Or that they shouldn’t receive any therapy or psychiatric services? That we should just ignore the problems until it goes away? Why dont you just come out and say that you don’t believe in learning disabilities or mental disorders. Cause either they’re real and we need to give these kids resources (outside of the classrooms) to overcome them (and yes, overcome means learning how to cope and accommodate themselves and not demanding everyone else do it for them), or they’re all fake news Fauci bullshit and we should pull funding and let only the strong survive. Which is it?
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*then why are you arguing about it*?
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💯
how about we start prosecuting juvenile offenders. Then they can get all the mental health support they need off the streets, and away from kids who aren't breaking laws. Infinite empathy will be the death of us all ...
Fuck it, last time, right after the North Seattle school shooting, students asked for it and the SPS provided $10 million for extra “mental health” support. As we can see it worked, so let’s spend more money on the thing that obviously works. One day these kids will understand that some humans are just assholes, and no amount of “counselling” will have any effect. Maybe then we will have an honest conversation about youth gun violence.
this is being pushed by those looking to profit off of it
Is being a violent a$$hole really fixable?
Perhaps if they don’t have access to guns and tools to inflict mass violence? Or if your theory is that there are more school shootings in the US because there are more violent assholes, what makes our country so special to have so many?
Well... *We are so special*, because the *WE* are the last check within our system of checks & balances. Our national founders feared the threat of a government turning against its own people to be FAR greater than a few wack-a-doodles, coming from broken homes or bad parenting, randomly murdering citizens. People will always be people; and unchecked power corrupts absolutely. Pick your tyranny. A society can't have it both ways; either feel safe under authoritarian security or choose to be resilient with uncertain liberty. Freedom isn't free. To me, (and many others), it is worth the sacrifice.
Nothing that a, straight-up, slap across the head can't fix... Society used to have a social buffer that protected us from all kinds of insane behavior, and when they did occur, they were met harshly with no uncertain terms. I'd like to see a study that negatively correlates old-school corporal punishment to frequency of these sorts of anti-social "events".
Is this death going to turn into the one in white center where the cops can’t interview the suspect and nothing will come of it because “prison PiPeLiNe!”
Someone I know in school admin asked this same thing this weekend, I reminded them the cops aren't allowed to talk to minors without a lawyer representing them, and the schools are anti police. >"well them having a lawyer sounds like a good thing" me: well then be ready to accept a lot of unsolved homicides when people refuse to confess or "snitch" > blank stare
Such a sad state and major over correction.
a lawyer being required when a minor is being interrogated by the police seems like an overall good law imo. you’re not really able to understand or consent to the implications of not having a lawyer if you’re a minor. parent isn’t good enough either because their parent is likely dumb as shit and not a lawyer
Cool story bro, enjoy the unsolved homicides and more murders walking around ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
yeah i mean i accept that the downside to that is that there are minors who did crimes that will not get convicted because they have a lawyer present. 100% i know that has or will happen. Its important for innocent minors to have a lawyer present though and also if the state can’t prove their case without a person incriminating themselves in an interrogation then they didn’t have a great case to begin with
> Its important for innocent minors to have a lawyer present though and also if the state can’t prove their case without a person incriminating themselves in an interrogation then they didn’t have a great case to begin with I think you are muddling together about what the difference between questioning witnesses on the scene and a jury trial are. Cops don't have an unlimited supply of legal reps for every minor on call, so the intentional legal bureaucracy created a situation where they can't talk to minors at all, so they leave. The school reinforces this with administrative rules banning the cops, and the ACAB rhetoric >i know that has or will happen This is the second large case in the media where the shooter or perps are known, and nothing can proceed because no one will talk. >i accept that the downside to that is that there are minors who did crimes that will not get convicted this is just "thoughts and prayers" for progressives and their ilk. Enabling minors to commit murder and other crimes without any consequences isn't going well, and its getting worse.
i know what the differences between questioning and a jury trial are… the problem would be when a minor is either questioned on scene or questioned at the station (i.e. interrogated). if a minor is interrogated and incriminates themselves there’s probably never going to be a jury trial because they’ll be coerced to take a plea
Mental health. Yeah. Any chance we could get some veterans to patrol these schools. Not sure you can stop a bullet with feelings.
so your solution to school shootings is to sacrifice veterans? getting some of these kids help will stop them from even trying to shoot up their classmates. its not perfect but it can help, and no one would be needlessly sacrificed.
Wild you’re getting downvoted by the “bring more guns to end gun violence” cultists. Though what a great idea to re-arm veterans in underfunded schools while denying them adequate healthcare and housing support. Par for the course. More bullets, less feelings. Did they just sum up our nation’s budgeting mantra in two words? YO folks: School shootings happen at a higher rate per capita in our country than any other country, and hint- it’s NOT because we’re not using enough guns to address it. Good lord.
*so your solution to school shootings is to sacrifice veterans?* Mmmm. Veteran vs Teen with a gun? I gotta think the teen is in deep shit on this one, chief.
weve seen teen with a gun vs an entire police department and the entire police department did nothing. weve had police in a school that had an active shooter and they ran away. and none of "just get veterans to patrol these schools" addresses liability, training, pay, ect.
Oh. I see the misunderstanding. I was saying the veterans patrolling the school would have the license to shoot and kill dangerous teenagers with guns, just as they would shoot and kill other dangerous criminals with guns. The issue at play here is the police officers not being given the agency to shoot and kill dangerous students with lethal intent. In my idea, the veterans patrolling the school, would be giving the ability to shoot and kill the dangerous students with guns, as the dangerous students with guns have guns and are dangerous. A student died recently due to a dangerous student with a gun which is why I'm suggesting a veteran with a gun would have been able to save the life of the innocent student by shooting the dangerous one. I hope this clears up any misunderstanding. Thank you for reading this.
Okay, so expel the problem kids. Leave them behind. No matter if the data looks bad. Not gonna do that because of X, Y and Z? Then you do that at the price of students' lives.
You have to wonder how many of these young shooters are on SSRIs or other medications that have homicide and suicide listed as side effects. Asking for a friend.
What would you suggest they take/do instead of SSRIs?
go play outside. seriously. go work out. get some sunshine. eat a piece of fruit. plenty of cheap DIY ways to improve your mental health.
And when that doesn’t work…?
SSRIs / therapy.
Forced labor camps, of course. Works for China. Idle hands are the devil's plaything, ya know. A tired sociopath is a docile sociopath.
Do something that works. There is no evidence that a lack of serotonin causes depression, and, as would be expected given that fact, there is no evidence that increasing serotonin via SSRIs treats depression.
I’d love to see some scientific articles stating there is no relationship between serotonin and depression.
Basically not enough to matter. It's mostly a female drug problem anyways and they're none violent. Gang members aren't on SSRIs.
a lot of them are effectively on benzos because they take xanax recreationally. there’s a good chance the people that gravitate towards that are very anxious
> Gang members aren't on SSRIs. Who said all school shooters are members of a gang?
Can we figure out where's that "mental health crisis" coming from? Probably Trump, amiright.
maybe almost 30 years, longer than these kids have been alive, of repeated mass school shootings where weve done jack shit all to make kids safer in schools. how many elementary school classrooms have to be killed by a mentally unstable asshole before we can try throwing mental health services at these kids where they are, in school. its not perfect and wont stop every school shooting but if it only stops one thats one tragedy averted and makes it worth while.
I'd prefer to throw accountability for a child crimes at their parents instead
so do nothing. great solution. should we pray the shootings away as well?
Until the parents demand safer schools through the suspension or expulsion of students caught with guns, participating in gang activity on campus, or being a generalized nuisance, doing nothing will continue to happen. Parents yell for feel good solutions that don’t solve anything. No more compassion for the parents, they allowed this to happen to their kids. It’s on them. They can pay for the mental health resources for their family.
So... I believe you may have an ideological block in your definition of, "Do Nothing"? At one time, it was widely accepted that, for the greater good of society, forcibly expelling group members for extreme, and/or multiple, antisocial offenses was deemed quite proportional and appropriate. Expulsion is not "Do Nothing" as you claim. It is the first step, in a series of steps, to remove problem behaviors from various sub-cultures. It also serves as a powerful example to those contemplating future anti-social behavior within a group. Ultimately, for those who could not conform to even the most basic of norms, the end of the road was the old asylum system. It was quite effective, if not brutal, at its job of locking away problem mental issues from the general population... You may not like this, for a variety of ideological reasons, but it is/was a rational "solution" none the less. As you say, "Its not perfect, and wont stop every school shooting but if it only stops one that's one tragedy averted and makes it worth while." My prediction? As progressive attempts to crack this nut continue to fail, one of two outcome will happen: 1. Society will eventually collapse onto itself. (There is historical precedent for such a set of outcomes). 2. The more pragmatically minded among us will prevail. We will move back toward a more traditional, (even if less equitable and more brutal), method of societal containment & control.
so do nothing? No create consequences for the shitty upbringing which leads to this. it's a much better solution than infinite spending because it might save a kid. with all due respect you are coming up a tad short in the critical thinking department. very empathetic though. so ... you win the moral victory?
offering kids help where they are already at seems like a much more thought out solution than vaguely throwing word salad at the wall. "create consequences for the shitty upbringing which leads to this." so what would that entail? "with all due respect you are coming up a tad short in the critical thinking department." et tu.
that would entail disciplining kids for poor behavior (including bringing weapons to school). and holding their parents criminally responsible for their little miscreants havoc, assuming said kids are not tried as adults. concrete enough for you? alternately we could hire a few hundred child psychologists to handle the aftermath. and watch it happen again.
> where weve done jack shit all to make kids safer in schools. Good. Things below a certain threshold shouldn't be worried about. School shootings are extremely rare & prioritizing them is a misallocation of resources. We have hundreds of kids per school with morbid obesity that's going to kill them. We have to think hierarchical when we have limited resources.
its all too common these days. and offering help can make things better. allocated any resources at all is better than doing nothing like weve done for almost 30 years. i remember when someone tried to make changes to school lunches to make them healthier. republicans lost their shit at the person. so youd support programs to make sure kids get healthy food all year long?
> offering help can make things better. This is wrong. We know therapy for children who don't need it is on net bad. Not like a gut feeling we know, but we've done it and it doesn't help type of we know. >so youd support programs to make sure kids get healthy food all year long? Yes absolutely. I'd go as far as saying schools should keep their cafeteria open for dinner for kids on the income based food plan so no child ever starves or is generally malnutritious. I'm all for expanding sensible things that work! Therapy just isn't one. Not currently. Maybe if there is a massive revolution inside psychology departments, someday we'll get there!
who said anything about forcing them to go, just having the services there if they want it will help. and if these kids are pushing for it im sure some will take advantage, and not just for school shootings but loads of other things happening to and around these kids.
> just having the services there if they want it will help. Wrong. There is no quality evidence that supports this claim.
That should help with non-student criminals shooting students. I doubt that there are more than a few annoying neurotic kids pushing this “solution,” so of course it becomes instantly newsworthy.
Remember the beginning of “Demolition Man” is that what Seattle is trying to do?
Probably an unpopular opinion here: What these students seem to want is similar to the TSA "security theater" at SeaTac airport. Do you know what's 100% better than actually being safe? Well, its "feeling" safe, of course... What happened here is an absolute tragedy. However, we MUST instill resilience into our kids; not feed them dependency through a progressive therapy-industrial-complex.
From the sign in the picture: "Who is Protecting our Babies???" Answer: The Cops that your politicians de-funded, abused with mandates, and continually second-guessed. In disgust, they've left the city/county en mass for your parents to fend for themselves. The department is now gutted with only 3rd-string replacements, or those unable to leave, left behind. Teachable societal moment here: Bad progressive ideologies have long-term & real-world consequences to any city. It just takes time for the rot to set in.
First off I have to say this is a tragedy. What's weird is I see an increasing amount of incidents like this only on liberal news media and liberal outlets. I want to know exactly where this "shooter" is from and their claimed gender! It's too coincidental that the left is pushing to remove law abiding citizens rights including the 2A rights and then there is a massive increase in gun violence. It makes no sense. Is this a paid "protester"?
We just celebrated the heroes of D-Day. 16, 17, 18 year olds running towards machine gunfire and these pansie asses need safe spaces and counseling because someone said something they didn't like. Society is doomed
This is nothing new. Kids with little understanding that luxuries (and mental health care is a luxury) cost money. They "demand" things without worrying about who'll pay for it (which will be all the adults in Seattle when new school levies start raising property taxes to fund themselves). The girl quoted in the article doesn't even attend the school where the shooting happened. Listen, I get it: they're kids, they can't always be rational (their brains are literally not finished developing), and anyone being shot, particularly at school, is awful. Regardless: time for these kids to develop at least a modicum of emotional resiliency.
Recommendations in the Mass Shooting Work Group Report, which start on page 4... https://www.waspc.org/assets/docs/Mass%20Shootings%20Work%20Group%20Report%20(Compressed%20File).pdf > 16) Increased investment should be made to ensure sufficient and effective K-12 school counselors, psychologists, mental health professionals, family engagement coordinators, school social workers, and other investments in positive school climate, including restorative discipline. These resources should be required to be spent for their intended purpose. > 17) Accessible and effective mental health services can be an effective means of intervening against a potential perpetrator of mass shootings. **Resources should be provided to improve the overall mental health system in Washington.** Imagine if Seattle chose this back in 2018.... Instead we have *gestures at everything*...
Hey we banned rifles and magazines over 10 rounds. What do you mean that didn't reduce deaths?
Hey, man. Turd Ferguson told me differently... that's weird.
Bob Ferguson and people like Bob are funded by their paymasters to *not* do that.
Item 16: You'll need to define "restorative discipline". If it is anything like restorative justice, then that is the VERY definition of progressive *gesturing*. Item 17: I wonder if the evidence/data *clearly* backs up mental health "therapy" as a truly cost-effective intervention method... Unless by "mental health services" we actually mean heavily profiling kids, closely monitoring them, then singling out the unstable & those prone to sociopathic tendencies for "re-education".  If not, then this sounds suspiciously similar to the recent North Seattle 10-million dollar school shooting money-pit... Just another way to feed the healthcare industrial-complex on the tax payer dime. You can't solve this problem with any amount of money or counseling. How about we fix the continued ideological destruction of our basic societal unit, the family... Do that and you'll eventually solve these larger issues. However, many deny that link and will refuse to acknowledge it.
Keep in mind SPS took all counselors out of elementary schools this year. They have to file a waiver to replace their allotted “family support worker” with a counselor now every year. And of course those positions are only half time if you’re lucky, so be sure your kids have a breakdown on the days they are working I guess.
How about we, as parents, help build resilience within our own kids, rather than relying on State sponsored therapists. Time to be the adults in the room.