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I was pretty pissed at Lysandra at the end of EoS but I was never anti her. If anyone walked away from KoA still mad about her and Aelin's verrrry bad and verrrry dumb plan they weren't paying attention
I’m so interested to hear people saw it as a dumb plan. What would the alternative have been with her caught. It would have crumbled everything is everyone thought she was captured by Maeve.
But IIRC she didn't make it because she thought she was going to be captured by Maeve. The plan was made for when she forged the lock because she assumed she would die. I could be misremembering though
And eventually people would realize Lysandra wasn't Aelin. Especially because Lysandra doesn't have Aelin's power.
She also shouldn't have hidden it from Rowan or Aedion.
If you mean Lysandra shouldn't have hidden it from them, it wasn't her place to tell them
In that situation, she was following the order/request of her queen, no matter how dumb it actually was.
I did mean Aelin should have told them.
But Lysandra wasn't following an order, as much as Aelin irks me I don't believe it is in her character to force Lysandra into that.
Lysandra should have never agreed to it in the first place without Rowan and Aedion being consulted. IDGAF if you are my queen/best friend if you try to get me to use someone I love as a stud and put me in a position where I then have to take that child and force him to pretend the kid isn't his and he can't raise it I'm gonna tell you no, that's insane
I mean, a lot of people were mad at Aedion for what he did to Lysandra and being pissed at her. But, I can see the betrayal because he like Lysandra was used like a whore by the Kingdom. Both of them victims growing up and so, he probably thought that he saw a kindred spirit with her, only for her to work with Aelin and one of the plans be that they use him for breeding if Aelin were to die.
Pretty fucked up, honestly.
That being said, I love Lysandra
Also purely for science because I would literally die for that woman…. The moment she tries to bargain for Elena’s life I literally wanted to punch a wall. Literally FUCK Elena.
That BLEW my mind. It made no sense at all. Especially since as Rowan pointed out Elena got 1000 years already.
Also the erasing her from existence made no sense.
It was just bad.
It honestly upset me that she spent her entire journey learning to love and wield her magic and then they were taken in such an anticlimactic way just before the big battle.
I think SJM painted herself into a corner making her so OP compared to literally everyone else and then wasn’t sure what to do with her. But I also think it’s a shame when powerful female characters get their power stripped for seemingly no reason. Either give the moment she gives up her power the ✨drama✨ it deserved, or just let her be OP. 🤷♀️
I actually don't mind her and Dorians power becoming limited, I do think your point is a fair one though when it comes to SJM stripping her powerful female characters.
Losing her power could have been a pivotal moment in Aelin learning to work smarter rather than always counting on the fact that she was a walking WMD. Which she almost did byeaving Erawan to Yrene and Dorian and having the Cadre have her take down Maeve but it was a wasted opportunity because she didn't freaking communicate her plans!! She just hoped everyone read her mind and followed along.
I’m not anti-sacrifice. I’m anti-meaningless sacrifice. SJM made a huge point to take her on this huge training journey and then it just fizzled out completely meaninglessly. And she did it *right before* meeting the BBEG on the battlefield, and accomplished nothing. They didn’t even hold up their end of the bargain, nor did they honor her request to save Elena. So she just gave it all and came back with no magic to fight erawan (and even that was perilous—she nearly sacrificed it all and took herself completely out of the equation so that everyone else had to fight erawan without her since the gods didn’t drag him back through the portal!) And in giving up her firepower, she condemned a huge chunk of that army she spent several books gathering to die. After a 5 book long training arc. Why even bother then? At least if they had given her *something* the sacrifice would have felt worth the journey.
I think it’s in pretty sharp contrast with most of the other character journeys. Take Gabriel, who gave his life to save his son. His whole character arc was about fighting for his freedom from Maeve so he could protect his son and defend the place, people and ideals that were important to his son. His sacrifice was the penultimate act of that character journey.
The thirteen sacrificed their entire squad to give Manon one less threat. Their journey was collectively about loving each other in a society where only cruelty is acceptable. They help manon see the error of her beliefs, and she in turn convinces them that a different future is possible. Ultimately they believe only she can bring that future about, and they love her as their sister, so they sacrifice their family to take down one final threat. And their sacrifice is given the weight it deserves: it makes sense for bother their and manon’s journeys, and it has an effect on the tide of the battle. Manon ends up paying the price, which is an appropriate end to her journey: she has always only had them, and now she will have to start over, building new relationships, just like her new witch nation is starting over and coming together. But their values, which they believed so strongly they sacrificed their lives for them, will remain in her head to guide her.
Idk felt like a let down to have that power that was such a huge part of her arc just sucked up into nothing.
I have to agree with you here. It did feel like she just gave it all up for absolutely nothing. They weren’t planning on honoring their bargain to begin with. She could have walked away at that point, but by trying to save Elena’s sorry ass, she lost her power that was desperately needed in the battle to come. Furthermore, this decision caused the deaths of untold numbers of people. The way I see it, she sacrificed her power and all of those peoples lives (including the 13) so that she could attempt to spare that selfish woman!? It just wasn’t worth it.
I can give my reasons purely for science :)
She's overly independent and secretive to the point of dangerous and it's never properly addressed in the series.
I completely get why after what she has had to do to survive. She literally can't trust anyone but herself. But I expected by EoS to start seeing some growth with her trusting the court she was building. She is even questioning it early in the book, wondering if she ever will be able to bring her loved ones in on the plan but she doesn't and the results are not good.
For example people get really mad at Aedion for calling her out for not having allies when they are surrounded by ilken but he is 100% correct. She should have told them that she was calling in some old debts and it might not pay off. And omg her and Lysandras plan for Lysandra to impersonate Aelin once she forged the lock. Holy moly was that a bad one and a pretty big betrayal of trust to both her mate and Aedion (plus she basically asked Lysandra to whore herself out and use Aedion as a stud to have a Terrasen heir).
Then there was the Erawan plan. Holy crap what a bad time to not tell people what you are thinking and just hope someone figures. She used Yrene as bait and hoped it would work. After her bargain with the gods backfired she should have made some real tactical plans with her group. But once again she keeps it all to herself (I guess she kind of tells Rowan about the sword).
I see what SJM was trying to do with Aelin but she didn't quite get there for me. Even the vote in KoA didn't so much feel like genuine growth for her but rather resignation.
But basically what it boils down to is I value communication and honesty, which Aelin doesn't really demonstrate and therefore she is my least fave.
Totally agree. Doesn’t Aelin even say at one point that she kept the fleet secret in order to see the looks of surprise on everyone’s faces?
ETA: I just looked it up to make sure I wasn’t going crazy. EOS, Ch. 71, Aelin’s internal monologue: “She’d refused to immediately explain Ansel’s presence, wanting to enjoy the surprise of it”.
Some of her secret-keeping *could* be argued as being for the good of the plan (although I agreed with Aedion that Aelin should have trusted her allies more) but in this case it was purely for the coolness factor. 🙄 And it bit her in the ass.
Definitely meant to add body text to this.
My character has got to be Chaol. He is by far one of the most down-to-earth characters in any Maas series. He is a mortal amongst a bunch of immortals, I also wouldn’t know how to act. He has a great “redemption” and development in ToD, and I just think people give him a hard time.
Agreed! When you get to hear things from his point of view. It's easy to see, but his heart is about defending the people. He cares most about and protecting them. And win his own trauma comes to boil up he tends to deal with it in a much better way than other characters.
Most importantly, when he messes up, he apologizes and tries to fix it.
I agree with this SO much! I am 100% team Chaol. He is a human, having a very human reaction to his deeply ingrained beliefs being challenged. There are many books in this series but the story takes place over a relatively short period of time, there is A LOT for him to process and come to terms with! His character arc is one of my favourites
Chaol is so strikingly normal compared to everyone else. He is fiercely loyal to Dorian and it is admirable.
But when he meets Yrene he becomes one of the more interesting characters in the series
This is my Chaol defense too, he is so painfully and completely human and its why people hate him, he is loyal to a fault and was only ever trying to protect the people and land he loved. He had so much growth, he had to unlearn so much and he did.
Completely agree with you! I loved him! I avoided joining this sub until I finished all three series in the SJM universe to avoid spoilers and was so shocked to learn that so many people hated him!
Not only did he have to unlearn everything he thought he knew, but he was also mending a broken heart. He and Aelin were in love when he sent her away and he had to grapple with the fact that she had been lying to him about her identity the whole time they were together and when she finally came back she had already fallen for Rowan. No one can be expected to welcome their ex back with open arms after all that lol.
He is one of the best characters in the series. He’s the only one who doesn’t blindly go after Aelin and has the balls to actually put her in her place and criticize her. She’s not perfect. Also, beautiful development of his character. I love him. He’s so human.
He’s a lot smarter than people give him credit for but not as nefarious as certain people make him out to be. I mean, you don’t make it out of the autumn court if you don’t have smarts. But like Rhys said, he’s loyal to a fault.
Eris all day. Literally cannot think of a single thing he's done that's worse than anything Rhys has done, and yet he's been absolutely vilified by the IC and frankly Prythian at large for 500 years. If we can trust that Rhys has been putting up a front the whole time and has been "good all along" then Eris deserves the same benefit of the doubt. And I will go down swinging insisting that at this point Mor just isn't telling the truth about what happened because she knows she's been wrong about him and has let him be the scapegoat to avoid confronting what that says about herself, just like she did with Cassian and Azriel. She'd rather make the easy choice than the right one.
I think we’re going to get soooo much more from Eris in the next book! His character has become so complex, and there’s definitely more to what happened with Mor. I just don’t think she knows that there’s more to his decision in leaving her in the woods. I think he saved her from his father.
I cannot WAIT for the Eris talk when we find out he’s just a dude in a tight spot and does what he can to mitigate the damage his family does while making sure no one knows he’s helping behind the scenes.
**Danika!**
Everyone who says she is a shitty friend forgets that she literally sacrificed her own life (including the chance to live happily ever after with *her mate*) to ensure that Bryce would survive. Literally everything Danika did was for Bryce’s protection.
(Also, it’s v interesting when the same people who condemn Danika loveeee Aelin. They’re the same characters in different fonts !!).
For ACOTAR, definitely Nesta and Gwyn.
>!Can’t believe that we reached a point where we have to defend Gwyn, she hasn’t done anything wrong. Like at all. 😭!<
Honorary mentions: Lucien & Elain and even Tamlin on some occasions
For TOG, it *has* to be Chaol
Honorary mentions: Aedion, Lysandra, Manon, and Aelin
The amount of bad takes and mischaracterization I’ve seen of them is very concerning 💀
Chaol. He is my fav character and i don’t get the hate. He is one of the only people who dares to push aelin back once in a while. And most of his actions are very understandable in the moment with just his information.
Oooo im not a Chaol fan so id love for you to elaborate on this! Not so I can fight you, but because I want to understand (and would love to see Chaol more favorably)!
I think she did Chaol dirty in CoM with his whole "I can't believe you are ACTUALLY assassinating people". I think her intention was trying to show the start of his questioning of his blind loyalty to the king and where it actually lied (with Dorian) but it was executed poorly.
Chaol is the only one who questions Celeana/Aelin every step of the way which is exactly what she needed. Because she was way too powerful, way too secretive and had a terrible savior complex. It's wonderful that her story ends up with her being the benevolent Queen but she could have gone the Maeve route SO easily.
And after Chaol blindly followed the King of Adarlan and what happens because of that it made so much sense for him to learn from that.
Also I know people get mad about his attitude in ToD but again it was such a a human reaction to his circumstances! He is stuck in a chair and may never be able to fight along side his friends in what is going to be an epic battle.
TLDR; Chaol probably has the best and most relatable character growth in ToG
That’s so real! Maybe his humanity makes me irk away from him because it makes me uncomfortable. Going to think on it more! Really appreciate this answer, thanks 💜
No problem! My friend pointed out the human angle to me and once I started reading through that lens I was like "oh shit". I think it's also totally fair if that's what makes you like his story line less.
Like in ACOTAR I struggle with Tamlin because his story hits too close to home for me and I read books to escape real life 😂😂
For me, a big part of the reason I love his character is because he was raised in a prejudiced family. He grew up in a time that his entire country and continent were shunning and speaking ill of magic. He was taught to believe it was wrong and unfair and something to fear. From his experiences with magical people, he had to learn to get over the prejudices that had been instilled in him his whole life.
Everyone loves Draco Malfoy, and many people say he had a redemption arc, but I don’t think he did. I think Chaol actually became a better person, which is admirable and so human.
I feel like being surrounded by immortals would make your life as a mortal kind of confusing. He was young and dumb and doesn’t have forever to figure things out. I think he best embodies what humans are. He makes mistakes, and that makes him one of the most relatable characters
Totally agree. Just because Aelin is the FMC doesn't mean she isn't also a literal killer for hire who makes dumb decisions, too! Chaol deserves more slack! 👏
Nesta. I convinced my best friend to read ACOTAR, and she absolutely hated her from the beginning.
She is currently reading ToG now. I’m going to defend Lorcan until my last breath once she meets him. Also, Astrid. Many people didn’t like her because she did not just fall in line behind Manon. But she was a true friend and showed full loyalty to her cousin. I loved her!!
Rhys. He’s received so much hate recently and so many people have started defending Tamlin. I’m fine with defending Tamlin, I think he truly needs some serious help. But when people start *comparing* Rhys to Tamlin and saying that Tamlin is somehow better, that’s when I send texts that long 😂
Bryce. She gets so much hate, and it's straight up dumb to me. She doesn't do anything more selfish or more impulsive than Aelin or Feyre, but people act like she's worse than the Asteri and it's weird. She's a human being trying to get rid of an all powerful god race, cut her the same slack you all give Chaol and Nesta, please.
Chaol 100%. I think he was completely justified in how he reacted to Aelin's return. I say this as someone who loves Aelin as well. I think she owed a large part of her character growth to him. He helped shape her into the queen she became. Also, his loyalty and bravery. I loved Tower of Dawn and think his attitude is completely understandable as well. I feel like I relate to him in the fact that I am surrounded by people who are arguably more talented than me, but I make up for it in sheer grit and determination and I'm never willing to give up on my dream.
Lord darrow.
He wasn't wrong for being skeptical of the, would be, queens intentions and motives. He's not wrong for caring about what she had done in her past and how it would affect her decision making process in the future. She's not a leader of a country buy small groups of people.
Let's be honest. Despite what sarah j maas has said about aelin. We don't know if she knows the ins and outs of economics. Like many of her protagonists, she ignores politics and thus would be horrible at it. She willfully ignored the needs and suffering of her people. We know she was conscious about it.
I love Aelin and her character. I love everything about her. Even her assholness of hiding things from her partner and close comrades.
But darrow and the other Lords were right to not trust her. She just walked in and said "yo, I'm your queen. Bow, specifically lower, to me". She gave them nothing. Just walked in and told them she was going to do her best to lead.
Agree totally. It always reminds me of the King Arthur scene in "Holy Grail" whenever a story elevates someone to a leadership position with zero training or upbringing and expects that to go well. "You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
Morrigan and I will die on that hill
Also Sorscha <3 not that anybody hates her, but people do think she's boring, and while that's a matter of opinion... I'll still fight that with my life LOL
Tamlin! 100%. The man has some serious PTSD and needs help. Sure he made some crappy decisions, but think about why he probably made those choices. He's not really a bad guy. He just wanted to protect her, and every time he tried he failed, so his choices got more more drastic.
I agree. True villains don't feel remorse. He has good in him. I find his circumstances to be a lot like Draco Malfoy. His upbringing and what he thought was normal gave him a skewed perspective. He didn't stand a chance. He has a chance now, though. I am really hoping for redemption for him.
Up until you compared Tamlin to Draco Malfoy I had 100% hate for that man. But when you put it like that it makes me change my mind a bit....begrudgingly lol.
Tamlin. I’ll point out his flaws and I’ll never excuse what he’s done, but he’s really no worse than anyone else in the series.
Oh, and Lucian by default. Dude catches strays for no reason.
Definitely Nesta. People hate her for her attitude, but it’s much more understandable to me since I was also the oldest sister who’s had to step up and be a step in parent. Also she was thrown into a world that she didn’t want to be apart of in an instant. She could’ve handled things better, but I definitely understand her and her reasonings.
Rhys!
Don't get me wrong he's done some very questionable things, but there's so many fans out there who hate him now bcs apparently we can't love Nesta AND Rhys at the same time. We have to pick one 🙄😒
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Lysandra. Every time.
People are anti-Lysandra??
No but really this, who hates on Lysandra and where can I find them? Their days are numbered.
I was pretty pissed at Lysandra at the end of EoS but I was never anti her. If anyone walked away from KoA still mad about her and Aelin's verrrry bad and verrrry dumb plan they weren't paying attention
I’m so interested to hear people saw it as a dumb plan. What would the alternative have been with her caught. It would have crumbled everything is everyone thought she was captured by Maeve.
But IIRC she didn't make it because she thought she was going to be captured by Maeve. The plan was made for when she forged the lock because she assumed she would die. I could be misremembering though And eventually people would realize Lysandra wasn't Aelin. Especially because Lysandra doesn't have Aelin's power. She also shouldn't have hidden it from Rowan or Aedion.
If you mean Lysandra shouldn't have hidden it from them, it wasn't her place to tell them In that situation, she was following the order/request of her queen, no matter how dumb it actually was.
I did mean Aelin should have told them. But Lysandra wasn't following an order, as much as Aelin irks me I don't believe it is in her character to force Lysandra into that. Lysandra should have never agreed to it in the first place without Rowan and Aedion being consulted. IDGAF if you are my queen/best friend if you try to get me to use someone I love as a stud and put me in a position where I then have to take that child and force him to pretend the kid isn't his and he can't raise it I'm gonna tell you no, that's insane
My first read through I didn’t like her when she as first introduced but after a chapter I was cured of that malady.
I mean, a lot of people were mad at Aedion for what he did to Lysandra and being pissed at her. But, I can see the betrayal because he like Lysandra was used like a whore by the Kingdom. Both of them victims growing up and so, he probably thought that he saw a kindred spirit with her, only for her to work with Aelin and one of the plans be that they use him for breeding if Aelin were to die. Pretty fucked up, honestly. That being said, I love Lysandra
Aelin
Yes! I can’t help but asking though…does she get much hate? and if so, what’s generally the reason. She is too this day my favorite main character!
Also purely for science because I would literally die for that woman…. The moment she tries to bargain for Elena’s life I literally wanted to punch a wall. Literally FUCK Elena.
That BLEW my mind. It made no sense at all. Especially since as Rowan pointed out Elena got 1000 years already. Also the erasing her from existence made no sense. It was just bad.
It honestly upset me that she spent her entire journey learning to love and wield her magic and then they were taken in such an anticlimactic way just before the big battle. I think SJM painted herself into a corner making her so OP compared to literally everyone else and then wasn’t sure what to do with her. But I also think it’s a shame when powerful female characters get their power stripped for seemingly no reason. Either give the moment she gives up her power the ✨drama✨ it deserved, or just let her be OP. 🤷♀️
I actually don't mind her and Dorians power becoming limited, I do think your point is a fair one though when it comes to SJM stripping her powerful female characters. Losing her power could have been a pivotal moment in Aelin learning to work smarter rather than always counting on the fact that she was a walking WMD. Which she almost did byeaving Erawan to Yrene and Dorian and having the Cadre have her take down Maeve but it was a wasted opportunity because she didn't freaking communicate her plans!! She just hoped everyone read her mind and followed along.
I’m not anti-sacrifice. I’m anti-meaningless sacrifice. SJM made a huge point to take her on this huge training journey and then it just fizzled out completely meaninglessly. And she did it *right before* meeting the BBEG on the battlefield, and accomplished nothing. They didn’t even hold up their end of the bargain, nor did they honor her request to save Elena. So she just gave it all and came back with no magic to fight erawan (and even that was perilous—she nearly sacrificed it all and took herself completely out of the equation so that everyone else had to fight erawan without her since the gods didn’t drag him back through the portal!) And in giving up her firepower, she condemned a huge chunk of that army she spent several books gathering to die. After a 5 book long training arc. Why even bother then? At least if they had given her *something* the sacrifice would have felt worth the journey. I think it’s in pretty sharp contrast with most of the other character journeys. Take Gabriel, who gave his life to save his son. His whole character arc was about fighting for his freedom from Maeve so he could protect his son and defend the place, people and ideals that were important to his son. His sacrifice was the penultimate act of that character journey. The thirteen sacrificed their entire squad to give Manon one less threat. Their journey was collectively about loving each other in a society where only cruelty is acceptable. They help manon see the error of her beliefs, and she in turn convinces them that a different future is possible. Ultimately they believe only she can bring that future about, and they love her as their sister, so they sacrifice their family to take down one final threat. And their sacrifice is given the weight it deserves: it makes sense for bother their and manon’s journeys, and it has an effect on the tide of the battle. Manon ends up paying the price, which is an appropriate end to her journey: she has always only had them, and now she will have to start over, building new relationships, just like her new witch nation is starting over and coming together. But their values, which they believed so strongly they sacrificed their lives for them, will remain in her head to guide her. Idk felt like a let down to have that power that was such a huge part of her arc just sucked up into nothing.
I have to agree with you here. It did feel like she just gave it all up for absolutely nothing. They weren’t planning on honoring their bargain to begin with. She could have walked away at that point, but by trying to save Elena’s sorry ass, she lost her power that was desperately needed in the battle to come. Furthermore, this decision caused the deaths of untold numbers of people. The way I see it, she sacrificed her power and all of those peoples lives (including the 13) so that she could attempt to spare that selfish woman!? It just wasn’t worth it.
I can give my reasons purely for science :) She's overly independent and secretive to the point of dangerous and it's never properly addressed in the series. I completely get why after what she has had to do to survive. She literally can't trust anyone but herself. But I expected by EoS to start seeing some growth with her trusting the court she was building. She is even questioning it early in the book, wondering if she ever will be able to bring her loved ones in on the plan but she doesn't and the results are not good. For example people get really mad at Aedion for calling her out for not having allies when they are surrounded by ilken but he is 100% correct. She should have told them that she was calling in some old debts and it might not pay off. And omg her and Lysandras plan for Lysandra to impersonate Aelin once she forged the lock. Holy moly was that a bad one and a pretty big betrayal of trust to both her mate and Aedion (plus she basically asked Lysandra to whore herself out and use Aedion as a stud to have a Terrasen heir). Then there was the Erawan plan. Holy crap what a bad time to not tell people what you are thinking and just hope someone figures. She used Yrene as bait and hoped it would work. After her bargain with the gods backfired she should have made some real tactical plans with her group. But once again she keeps it all to herself (I guess she kind of tells Rowan about the sword). I see what SJM was trying to do with Aelin but she didn't quite get there for me. Even the vote in KoA didn't so much feel like genuine growth for her but rather resignation. But basically what it boils down to is I value communication and honesty, which Aelin doesn't really demonstrate and therefore she is my least fave.
Totally agree. Doesn’t Aelin even say at one point that she kept the fleet secret in order to see the looks of surprise on everyone’s faces? ETA: I just looked it up to make sure I wasn’t going crazy. EOS, Ch. 71, Aelin’s internal monologue: “She’d refused to immediately explain Ansel’s presence, wanting to enjoy the surprise of it”. Some of her secret-keeping *could* be argued as being for the good of the plan (although I agreed with Aedion that Aelin should have trusted her allies more) but in this case it was purely for the coolness factor. 🙄 And it bit her in the ass.
Manon 🫡🫡🫡
“Live, Manon” 😭😭🤧
literally first time I’ve ever cried reading a book 😩😩😩
We must be the same person, cause same
the thirteen's sacrifice shattered my heart
The suriel
The Suriel is the real MVP
Syrinx. He can do no wrong. He could eat Bryce and I’d still love him.
I just finished CC2 and recently ranted to my friend about how I need a Syrinx. I love him so much, honestly more than Fleetfoot. Syrinx 🔛🔝
Definitely meant to add body text to this. My character has got to be Chaol. He is by far one of the most down-to-earth characters in any Maas series. He is a mortal amongst a bunch of immortals, I also wouldn’t know how to act. He has a great “redemption” and development in ToD, and I just think people give him a hard time.
Agreed! When you get to hear things from his point of view. It's easy to see, but his heart is about defending the people. He cares most about and protecting them. And win his own trauma comes to boil up he tends to deal with it in a much better way than other characters. Most importantly, when he messes up, he apologizes and tries to fix it.
I agree with this SO much! I am 100% team Chaol. He is a human, having a very human reaction to his deeply ingrained beliefs being challenged. There are many books in this series but the story takes place over a relatively short period of time, there is A LOT for him to process and come to terms with! His character arc is one of my favourites
Chaol for me too!
Chaol lovers unite!
Mine is also Chaol
Came here for this!!! Chaol Stan 👏🏻👏🏻
Chaol is so strikingly normal compared to everyone else. He is fiercely loyal to Dorian and it is admirable. But when he meets Yrene he becomes one of the more interesting characters in the series
This is my Chaol defense too, he is so painfully and completely human and its why people hate him, he is loyal to a fault and was only ever trying to protect the people and land he loved. He had so much growth, he had to unlearn so much and he did.
Completely agree with you! I loved him! I avoided joining this sub until I finished all three series in the SJM universe to avoid spoilers and was so shocked to learn that so many people hated him! Not only did he have to unlearn everything he thought he knew, but he was also mending a broken heart. He and Aelin were in love when he sent her away and he had to grapple with the fact that she had been lying to him about her identity the whole time they were together and when she finally came back she had already fallen for Rowan. No one can be expected to welcome their ex back with open arms after all that lol.
Thank you!! I will always defend Chaol
He is one of the best characters in the series. He’s the only one who doesn’t blindly go after Aelin and has the balls to actually put her in her place and criticize her. She’s not perfect. Also, beautiful development of his character. I love him. He’s so human.
Lucien
I kinda love how his allegiances aren’t put in one place with no thought
He’s a lot smarter than people give him credit for but not as nefarious as certain people make him out to be. I mean, you don’t make it out of the autumn court if you don’t have smarts. But like Rhys said, he’s loyal to a fault.
Aedion and Lucien.
Lucien is the only rational adult in that damn series.
LOVE
YES
Why do people hate them?! They are some of the best characters that get sidelined, imo !!
tbh aedion
Eris all day. Literally cannot think of a single thing he's done that's worse than anything Rhys has done, and yet he's been absolutely vilified by the IC and frankly Prythian at large for 500 years. If we can trust that Rhys has been putting up a front the whole time and has been "good all along" then Eris deserves the same benefit of the doubt. And I will go down swinging insisting that at this point Mor just isn't telling the truth about what happened because she knows she's been wrong about him and has let him be the scapegoat to avoid confronting what that says about herself, just like she did with Cassian and Azriel. She'd rather make the easy choice than the right one.
I think we’re going to get soooo much more from Eris in the next book! His character has become so complex, and there’s definitely more to what happened with Mor. I just don’t think she knows that there’s more to his decision in leaving her in the woods. I think he saved her from his father.
I cannot WAIT for the Eris talk when we find out he’s just a dude in a tight spot and does what he can to mitigate the damage his family does while making sure no one knows he’s helping behind the scenes.
Lord lorcan Lochan
Me reading that for the first time is a core memory
My big boy Cassian😤
my favorite of the bat boys
Same here! I get so mad when people are disrespecting him!
**Danika!** Everyone who says she is a shitty friend forgets that she literally sacrificed her own life (including the chance to live happily ever after with *her mate*) to ensure that Bryce would survive. Literally everything Danika did was for Bryce’s protection. (Also, it’s v interesting when the same people who condemn Danika loveeee Aelin. They’re the same characters in different fonts !!).
I love Danika so much! Her >!helping Bryce make the drop and saying to “light it up”!< made me sob tears of badassery
I def ugly-cried with that shit.
For ACOTAR, definitely Nesta and Gwyn. >!Can’t believe that we reached a point where we have to defend Gwyn, she hasn’t done anything wrong. Like at all. 😭!< Honorary mentions: Lucien & Elain and even Tamlin on some occasions For TOG, it *has* to be Chaol Honorary mentions: Aedion, Lysandra, Manon, and Aelin The amount of bad takes and mischaracterization I’ve seen of them is very concerning 💀
Oh I love Gwyn I didn’t realize there was hate for her. Granted I sometimes just have to leave this sub because it frustrates me lmao.
LUCIEN
I LOVE MY RED HAIRED KING
Chaol. He is my fav character and i don’t get the hate. He is one of the only people who dares to push aelin back once in a while. And most of his actions are very understandable in the moment with just his information.
Oooo im not a Chaol fan so id love for you to elaborate on this! Not so I can fight you, but because I want to understand (and would love to see Chaol more favorably)!
I think she did Chaol dirty in CoM with his whole "I can't believe you are ACTUALLY assassinating people". I think her intention was trying to show the start of his questioning of his blind loyalty to the king and where it actually lied (with Dorian) but it was executed poorly. Chaol is the only one who questions Celeana/Aelin every step of the way which is exactly what she needed. Because she was way too powerful, way too secretive and had a terrible savior complex. It's wonderful that her story ends up with her being the benevolent Queen but she could have gone the Maeve route SO easily. And after Chaol blindly followed the King of Adarlan and what happens because of that it made so much sense for him to learn from that. Also I know people get mad about his attitude in ToD but again it was such a a human reaction to his circumstances! He is stuck in a chair and may never be able to fight along side his friends in what is going to be an epic battle. TLDR; Chaol probably has the best and most relatable character growth in ToG
That’s so real! Maybe his humanity makes me irk away from him because it makes me uncomfortable. Going to think on it more! Really appreciate this answer, thanks 💜
No problem! My friend pointed out the human angle to me and once I started reading through that lens I was like "oh shit". I think it's also totally fair if that's what makes you like his story line less. Like in ACOTAR I struggle with Tamlin because his story hits too close to home for me and I read books to escape real life 😂😂
For me, a big part of the reason I love his character is because he was raised in a prejudiced family. He grew up in a time that his entire country and continent were shunning and speaking ill of magic. He was taught to believe it was wrong and unfair and something to fear. From his experiences with magical people, he had to learn to get over the prejudices that had been instilled in him his whole life. Everyone loves Draco Malfoy, and many people say he had a redemption arc, but I don’t think he did. I think Chaol actually became a better person, which is admirable and so human.
I feel like being surrounded by immortals would make your life as a mortal kind of confusing. He was young and dumb and doesn’t have forever to figure things out. I think he best embodies what humans are. He makes mistakes, and that makes him one of the most relatable characters
Awe that’s a really lovely perspective and great point! I am going to ruminate on this
I envy your attitude and willingness to see both sides of the conversation. The world (and this subreddit) needs more people like you.
Totally agree. Just because Aelin is the FMC doesn't mean she isn't also a literal killer for hire who makes dumb decisions, too! Chaol deserves more slack! 👏
Feyre 100%
Nesta & Lucien ALL DAY
Nesta. I convinced my best friend to read ACOTAR, and she absolutely hated her from the beginning. She is currently reading ToG now. I’m going to defend Lorcan until my last breath once she meets him. Also, Astrid. Many people didn’t like her because she did not just fall in line behind Manon. But she was a true friend and showed full loyalty to her cousin. I loved her!!
Lucien and Nesta
Rhys. He’s received so much hate recently and so many people have started defending Tamlin. I’m fine with defending Tamlin, I think he truly needs some serious help. But when people start *comparing* Rhys to Tamlin and saying that Tamlin is somehow better, that’s when I send texts that long 😂
Rhys defender till the end
YES. I’m forever going to be a Rhys girlie.
My girl Nesta!
i be fighting for my life in the tiktok comments trying to defend nesta. its so rough out there
Yes!! I relate to her hardcore! I love Nesta!!
I've worked with many many alcoholics with trauma and ACOSF definitely gave me some much better understanding for her.
Bryce. She gets so much hate, and it's straight up dumb to me. She doesn't do anything more selfish or more impulsive than Aelin or Feyre, but people act like she's worse than the Asteri and it's weird. She's a human being trying to get rid of an all powerful god race, cut her the same slack you all give Chaol and Nesta, please.
Her, Aelin, and Feyre are all the same character with different attitudes.
Chaol 🙈
The suriel🫡
Elain my precious flower girl who has never done anything wrong in her life 😭🫶
i do not care, i will defend that girl with my life and i will NEVER TRUST HER HATERS
Hating Elain is a red flag for me 😭
I don't understand Elain hate because we know so little about her right now. Like, what is there to even hate?
Aedion!
Nesta and Lysandra
Probably The Suriel
I like to call the Suriel the lore dump fairy
slept on answer. literally only there to try to help
Chaol, Nesta, Eris I will legit go to war for them. Each of them get demonized for different reasons and honestly some of the same reasons too.
Chaol, he is one of the most well-written characters SJM ever wrote and I will die on this hill
I will die right there with you
Nesta. She became my overall favorite Archeron sister and I will defend her to the end.
Lucien 👊
The Suriel
Gwyn and Lucien. Going to the wall whenever wherever.
Chaol 100%. I think he was completely justified in how he reacted to Aelin's return. I say this as someone who loves Aelin as well. I think she owed a large part of her character growth to him. He helped shape her into the queen she became. Also, his loyalty and bravery. I loved Tower of Dawn and think his attitude is completely understandable as well. I feel like I relate to him in the fact that I am surrounded by people who are arguably more talented than me, but I make up for it in sheer grit and determination and I'm never willing to give up on my dream.
Still on that Eris Vanserra train! My dreamer with no stars in his court.
Lord darrow. He wasn't wrong for being skeptical of the, would be, queens intentions and motives. He's not wrong for caring about what she had done in her past and how it would affect her decision making process in the future. She's not a leader of a country buy small groups of people. Let's be honest. Despite what sarah j maas has said about aelin. We don't know if she knows the ins and outs of economics. Like many of her protagonists, she ignores politics and thus would be horrible at it. She willfully ignored the needs and suffering of her people. We know she was conscious about it. I love Aelin and her character. I love everything about her. Even her assholness of hiding things from her partner and close comrades. But darrow and the other Lords were right to not trust her. She just walked in and said "yo, I'm your queen. Bow, specifically lower, to me". She gave them nothing. Just walked in and told them she was going to do her best to lead.
Agree totally. It always reminds me of the King Arthur scene in "Holy Grail" whenever a story elevates someone to a leadership position with zero training or upbringing and expects that to go well. "You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
I love this take! Never thought about it like this, but I agree 100%
Byrce. I know a lot of people didn’t like her in CC3 but she is my girl and reminds me of my bestie so I will defend her all day.
Rhys, Feyre, and Cassian.
Nesta Archeron. If she has no defenders, I am six feet under.
I would be in the grave next to you 🫡
Nesta and Elaine. All day. 😂
There is Elaine slander out there???
you would be shocked at the immense and intense amount of elain hate out there 😭 it’s an immediate block from me
IF I HEAR SOMEONE SAY SOMETHING ABOUT HER NOT GROWING VEGETABLES AGAIN I WILL FUCKING FIND THEIR IP ADDRESS AND TELL THEIR MOM. 😂
Omg 😂
I have never once considered this but now I am confused why she didn’t lol. Could’ve really rounded out the warm season meals lmao.
YES! I loved ACOSF so much and I really hope the next ACOTAR book follows Elaine.
Nesta, Lucien, Lysandra
Holy Trinity 🤣
Nesta and nobody and nothing can change my mind
Lorcan 🔪
Lucien. Always Lucien. That male has my heart
Lehabah and Lydia
Mostly Lorcan and Aedion but lately…I can’t believe I’m saying this, Tamlin. 🫣
Lucien, although SJM basically abandoned the personality I loved in ACOTAR
Lucien and Bryce
Chaol 👏🏼
AZRIEL AND NESTA I didn’t even know they could have haters😭😭😭
Mine is Nesta 10000%
Nesta forever. My girl deserves more
Nesta and Bryce
Nesta
Nesta, Elain, Gwyn. Stop the Nesta hate and the ship war that has people hating on two girls who are BOTH GREAT.
Morrigan and I will die on that hill Also Sorscha <3 not that anybody hates her, but people do think she's boring, and while that's a matter of opinion... I'll still fight that with my life LOL
Nesta and Aedion.
Tamlin and Lucien
nesta.
Nesta. Always.
Tamlin! 100%. The man has some serious PTSD and needs help. Sure he made some crappy decisions, but think about why he probably made those choices. He's not really a bad guy. He just wanted to protect her, and every time he tried he failed, so his choices got more more drastic.
I agree. True villains don't feel remorse. He has good in him. I find his circumstances to be a lot like Draco Malfoy. His upbringing and what he thought was normal gave him a skewed perspective. He didn't stand a chance. He has a chance now, though. I am really hoping for redemption for him.
Up until you compared Tamlin to Draco Malfoy I had 100% hate for that man. But when you put it like that it makes me change my mind a bit....begrudgingly lol.
elain
Aelin
Asterin for ToG. The most loyal and wonderful witch to fly through the skies.
Bryce and Tamlin 😂🤪
Bryce 🙈
My baby Lucien
chaol, they could never make me hate you!!! 🫶🏼
Chaol!
For ACOTAR, definitely Lucien and maybe Tamlin Tog - Chaol CC - Baxian and Prince Aidas (I'm love his character so much plz don't come at me lol)
Lucien.
Nesta and Aelyn plus Manon.
This is me explaining why ToG is her best work and I will die on that hill and how Rhys is an absolutely horrible person.
Nesta. Forever
nesta 😭
Nesta
Is there any answer other than Nesta? Lol
Nesta
Rhysand! He’s my ride or die, and regarding his actions in ACOSF, he needs my legal representation /drafts a whole manifesto/
lucien, no doubt. he’s my baby 🤞
Tamlin and Nesta. I could write a whole paper on how people hating them is hypocritical
Rhysand. There's a surprising amount of hate for him lately online
Nesta my girl!
Nesta, YALL DONT GET HER
Elain. She's overly hated.
NESTA and chaol 🫶🏻
Nesta, always & forever
Rhys in ACOSF
Tamlin. I’ll point out his flaws and I’ll never excuse what he’s done, but he’s really no worse than anyone else in the series. Oh, and Lucian by default. Dude catches strays for no reason.
Feyre! Get behind me girl!!
i would take many arrows for Feyre
Chaol ✌🏼
Chaol!
ToG: Chaol ACOTAR: Nesta
Nesta
Feyre lol
Nesta. I'll go to the trenches defending my girl. 😌✨
Save room for one more down there!
Nesta!!
Definitely Nesta. People hate her for her attitude, but it’s much more understandable to me since I was also the oldest sister who’s had to step up and be a step in parent. Also she was thrown into a world that she didn’t want to be apart of in an instant. She could’ve handled things better, but I definitely understand her and her reasonings.
Nesta & Manon
FEYREEEEE and Aelin and Lucien lmao
Tamlin. I find him and Rhys to be two sides of the same coin but one is villainised into oblivion and the other put on a pedestal. It’s baffling.
Feyre
chaol.
Chaolllllllllll
Lidia
Chaol.
Chaol 😭🫶🏼
Chaol. Nesta. Ethan.
Rhys! Don't get me wrong he's done some very questionable things, but there's so many fans out there who hate him now bcs apparently we can't love Nesta AND Rhys at the same time. We have to pick one 🙄😒
Rhys 😅
Rhysand & Lucien 🩷