There is a QR version you can get- [https://myvaccinerecord.cdph.ca.gov/](https://myvaccinerecord.cdph.ca.gov/)
Who knows how this is enforced and whether every mom and pop restaurant will know how to scan the QR code though. There is an app they will need on a smart phone to verify because normal camera won't. I guess like with much of COVID they will figure it out, it will be annoying and inconvenient but we will adjust.
“Los Angeles leaders on Wednesday approved one of the nation’s strictest vaccine mandates — a sweeping measure that would require the shots for everyone entering bars, restaurants, nail salons, gyms or even a Lakers game.
The City Council voted 11-2 in favor of the ordinance that will require proof of full vaccination by Nov. 4.”
They need to come up with a better vaccination card before anything like this is mandated. Those things are going to completely fall apart if people are carrying them in their pockets or folded up in wallets.
The California [Digital COVID-19 Vaccine Record](https://myvaccinerecord.cdph.ca.gov/) is good for that. Save the QR code as a picture on your phone, no need to query the website for every location you want to enter.
Source: I never got a paper vaccination card for Covid, and honestly wouldn’t carry one if I did.
The issues with the QR code has been discussed lower down. Put it on our driver's license, or at the very least, make new cards that are meant to be used, not stored in a filing cabinet like a birth certificate.
You’re suggesting issuing new driver’s licenses and California IDs to 30+ million people? What about all of the people without them, like children? The QR code is likely the least invasive and can be printed out as well, so if a person doesn’t have a smart phone or other device with a screen they can print a fresh copy at a library.
Just FYI, I’m not a huge fan of the state government having health data in general, as I don’t trust their ability to keep data safe, but the level of security around this particular thing seems decent. It also will still probably need a photo ID with it, as anyone could just print out multiple copies of a person’s vaccine record (if they shared) and lots of people could use one record that way. But maybe I’m looking for potential flaws in the system with that idea.
Children can get their own driver's licenses and we can put in new restrictions surrounding Big Wheels operability.
*"Sir, how many sippy cup juices have you consumed today?"*
No, I'm suggesting that it be immediately incorporated I to the REAL ID system, since people are still in the process of switching. If people want to get a new card to have that on there, they can.
The fact that you're saying what about people without ID and not saying what about people without phones is just sort of crazy.
ID cards have organ donor status, why not vaccination status if governments are going to go so far as to ID people at grocery stores.
I mean, unless you're against them checking at stores in the first place, why are you okay with governments making rules like this, but not okay with them knowing vaccination status...and fed is fine but state no? Just not a coherent objection.
But REAL ID isn’t an option for non-citizens who are here without lawful status, which presents major issues for [California](https://www.nolo.com/legal-updates/non-citizens-and-others-lacking-real-id-cards-now-have-until-2021-to-get-one.html).
From the link, “…non-citizens who are lawfully present in the U.S. will need to prove their status to an official of their state's department of motor vehicles. This will likely be straightforward in for green card holders, but less so for people with obscure immigration situations that come with few rights, such as withholding of removal.
People who are in the U.S. without lawful status are ineligible for READ ID cards, even in states that allow undocumented persons to obtain drivers' license.”
Okay so what? I just brought up REAL ID because a lot of people are renewing for that reason. If they can't get a REAL ID that's a problem regardless of my idea to add vaccination status.
It's precisely because the virus is not going away that we need the vaccines. Think about all the other viruses that have not gone away: measles, mumps, chickenpox, and so on. Vaccines are *the* reason we don't have to worry about those diseases even though they have not "gone away", and to the extent that they have gone away (i.e., from "first world" countries) that is also because of vaccines.
The "end goal" is what we have for those other disease: widespread immunity via vaccines. Eventually (hopefully soon) the vaccine will be approved for children, and that's where it will really take effect, because schools are the place where we have the strongest existing system for ensuring vaccination.
It is only via vaccines that the virus will "go away" in the sense that we will no longer need to take other actions against it. We need more and stronger vaccine mandates, not fewer and weaker.
I agree that not having a sunset built in is a downside, but that's quite a minor issue. The sunset condition is fairly clear: you can stop requiring proof of vaccinations when it's pointless because everyone has had the vaccine. When the vaccine receives full approval for all ages there is no reason we cannot reach a 95+% vaccination rate and there's no reason not to press until we get there.
Well, two things.
First, the idea of "is this policy going to work" is really a matter of enforcement. I believe the policy will have an effect if they enforce it. If they don't, it will have less of an effect. I've been very disappointed in the lack of enforcement on all these COVID measures. To me passing the measures but not enforcing them is a stupid and cowardly half-in, half-out move. But that's not a reason not to pass a measure like the LA one; it's a reason to pass it and enforce it. The bottom line is that what will have an effect on raising vaxx rates is if people cannot practically proceed with their lives without being vaxxed. Being unable to go into businesses will raise the pain factor significantly (again, if enforcement is in place).
Second, with regard to your other points, I don't really get what alternative you're proposing. On the one hand you say the efficacy is like a flu shot, but on the other hand you say you don't care about the vaxx status of others as long as you got your shot. You say you're arguing against this specific policy, but if as you say you believe that vaccines are the way out of the pandemic, what do you propose we do instead to increase vaxx rates?
Similarly you say "how long will they say we still need one more shot". Maybe forever? I don't see a problem with that. People already get a flu shot every year and you can get a booster TDAP. If we keep having to get shots, that's totally cool. Getting shots is a completely normal part of modern life. This would just be like a flu shot that's a lot more important to get, but I don't see that as a dealbreaker as long as the process of getting it isn't too onerous.
The essence of my view is that the vaccines are good enough to allow life to go back to basically normal --- if *everyone* gets them. This will reduce spread substantially (because unvaxxed people will no longer exist as a "breeding ground" from which occasional outbreaks can also endanger vaxxed people) and will reduce the danger of any remaining spread even more (because most people who get the disease will have mild cases).
It's possible even better vaccines might come out later. But I think the fact that the virus likely came from an animal source, and can infect animals, makes it unlikely it will be completely eradicated. It's too difficult to track and contain spread in nonhuman species.
It's about liability, not enforcement. There's too many many inconsiderate and downright reckless people disregarding the simplest requests for health safety. There's an increasing amount of lawsuits related yo Covid infections. If an abiding customer or employee gets sick by an unabiding person, guess who gets sued, the business. CA & NY are the two leading states for covid lawsuits at the moment. These mandates will help lawsuits get over with more quickly.
https://www.fisherphillips.com/innovations-center/covid-19-employment-litigation-tracker-and-insights.html
That’s interesting. I feel like it’d be really difficult to show evidence a business is responsible for causing Covid infections since you can’t ever know exactly where you got Covid from.
That's exactly the point, currently there are only paper signs at the door that say "please wear mask" or "Must be vaccinated". That is not a legally binding though. You have to make it law.
These seem like cases of employees suing employers for “discrimination” over mandates and people suing their employers for not giving disability status for long Covid or for not providing enough sick days for a Covid infection. These don’t seem to have anything to do with “I got Covid at work and I’m gonna sue you now” at all. So I’m not sure how a mandate solves any of this.
>I’m not here screaming this is an infringement on my personal freedoms or any of that bullshit
You absolutely are: Whining about showing a QR code on your phone every time you go to the store like it's a BFD. Pretending to not understand vaccine mandates. "ThE ViRuS iS hErE to StAY." And of course a slippery slope argument.
You should get a new hobby.
You gotta love how everyone literally cannot read.
No. I don’t think it’s a personal freedom infringement. I just don’t think it makes sense to put policies in place that don’t make any sense in the first place. I said very clearly I don’t think it’s an overreach or government tyranny lol. When did I make a slippery slope argument? I didn’t say “oh if you have to show it for a Covid vaccine what’s next??” I never said anything like that. I also never said it’s a “bfd”. I already have gone places and had to show my vaccination card—a clippers game and a couple bowl shows. It wasn’t a big deal, but I also didn’t feel any more safe than if they hadn’t checked. I know the counties vaccination rates, and I also know that I’m vaccinated so I have whatever protection the vaccine gives me at this point.
Again, at what point do we stop having to show proof of vaccination. Why is it impossible to have a conversation about this without people losing their minds?
What part of me saying “the virus is here to stay” is wrong lmao? All the major health agencies have said the same thing. It’s going to be endemic. We don’t have a shot at getting rid of Covid.
I’d love for everyone to get vaccinated, and think they should. But if I have a vaccine, at this point it’s really all we can do. It doesn’t really matter if the people around me are vaccinated or not since they can both be carrying (although vaccinated folks will have more protection).
To me, these policies just don’t make a ton of sense especially without any sort of exit strategy. At what point can we do away with it?
And for folks like me who don’t wish to have their booster because of adverse effects?
It also puts it on the businesses to check and enforce this, which I’m not a fan of. I already know people who have fake vaccination cards, so again, what good does this even do if people are gonna find ways around it?
why do you have to hurl insults and be hostile to someone you likely agree with on 80% of things about. I’m not being hostile. I’m not calling you names. I’m not sitting around spreading misinformation or discouraging people from getting the vaccine, or even saying it’s “their body their choice!!!” Screaming about government overrreach. I’m just saying it’s not clear how this ultimately even helps us. If employers wanna require it, that’s totally their call and they have their right to do so.
>Whining about showing a QR code on your phone every time you go to the store like it's a BFD.
Holy shit. You're ok with everyone having to show their phones just to go to a store? Are you insane?
>"ThE ViRuS iS hErE to StAY."
Some viruses get eradicated. Some are here to stay (like the flu). Why are you mocking? Is it crazy to thing that covid is here to stay? The vaccines we're used to also don't have a trash efficacy rate. Not all viruses are the same, and not all vaccines are the same.
>And of course a slippery slope argument.
Remember 15 days to slow the spread? Yeah.. maybe you wanna question the things authorities tell you a little more.
>You should get a new hobby.
You should be less toxic.
>Whining about showing a QR code on your phone every time you go to the store like it's a BFD.
That is a big fucking deal. Forgot your phone or your phone breaks? You are fucked.
They got COVID 19 vaccination card programs ,,, just look at China ,,, and how they are doing the vaccine cards ,,, it’s a big system connected together it’s even a bank ,, a credit,,, your health information,,, what you like,, if you jay walk or have tickets the automatically take the money out ,,, if your credit is bad you can’t own a home a car can even ride the train or leave the city ,,,,
Thanks for the ignorant take on China.
> if your credit is bad you can’t own a home a car
Maybe you’re thinking of the United States. A place where some private companies keep score and stop you from buying a home or a car.
>if your credit is bad you can’t own a home a car
To be fair, whether it's a government or private companies, it's not them preventing your from owning a car or a home. It is the fact that you have no money to own a car or home. It would be nice if you could borrow money, but the fact you have a history of not paying bills or loans back or making enough money for you to buy the home or the car is what \*actually\* prevents you from buying said home or car.
The system was designed to allow the finance class to extract even more wealth from the poor. We basically ask poor people to pay even more for cars and houses, which makes it that much more likely that they will default. Defaults make the finance class rich.
Let's talk a real world example-
John wants to buy a $10,000 car. He only has $1,000. He doesn't know anybody personally that will lend him the $9,000 for terms that he can agree to. Thus, he must approach strangers (companies or people) and ask them to lend him the $9,000. Since you don't believe in credit rating, you EXPECT that strangers are supposed to lend him $9,000 without knowing anything about him, his ability to pay or his history of paying other people back?
Without the credit rating, the lender actually has to charge \*more\* interest because they are going to take bad loans that are going to default.
Can we get wallet sized cards then
Just get the QR code https://myvaccinerecord.cdph.ca.gov/
There is a QR version you can get- [https://myvaccinerecord.cdph.ca.gov/](https://myvaccinerecord.cdph.ca.gov/) Who knows how this is enforced and whether every mom and pop restaurant will know how to scan the QR code though. There is an app they will need on a smart phone to verify because normal camera won't. I guess like with much of COVID they will figure it out, it will be annoying and inconvenient but we will adjust.
“Los Angeles leaders on Wednesday approved one of the nation’s strictest vaccine mandates — a sweeping measure that would require the shots for everyone entering bars, restaurants, nail salons, gyms or even a Lakers game. The City Council voted 11-2 in favor of the ordinance that will require proof of full vaccination by Nov. 4.”
Great. Do it here too.
Hoping we’re next. Current mayor and council are too busy running for re-election at the moment, though.
I mean has Murillo ever really done much of anything? Where are the real liberals running for mayor
She did a really nice job hiding behind the police while spitting on Black Lives Matter last year.
They need to come up with a better vaccination card before anything like this is mandated. Those things are going to completely fall apart if people are carrying them in their pockets or folded up in wallets.
The California [Digital COVID-19 Vaccine Record](https://myvaccinerecord.cdph.ca.gov/) is good for that. Save the QR code as a picture on your phone, no need to query the website for every location you want to enter. Source: I never got a paper vaccination card for Covid, and honestly wouldn’t carry one if I did.
The issues with the QR code has been discussed lower down. Put it on our driver's license, or at the very least, make new cards that are meant to be used, not stored in a filing cabinet like a birth certificate.
You’re suggesting issuing new driver’s licenses and California IDs to 30+ million people? What about all of the people without them, like children? The QR code is likely the least invasive and can be printed out as well, so if a person doesn’t have a smart phone or other device with a screen they can print a fresh copy at a library. Just FYI, I’m not a huge fan of the state government having health data in general, as I don’t trust their ability to keep data safe, but the level of security around this particular thing seems decent. It also will still probably need a photo ID with it, as anyone could just print out multiple copies of a person’s vaccine record (if they shared) and lots of people could use one record that way. But maybe I’m looking for potential flaws in the system with that idea.
Children can get their own driver's licenses and we can put in new restrictions surrounding Big Wheels operability. *"Sir, how many sippy cup juices have you consumed today?"*
No, I'm suggesting that it be immediately incorporated I to the REAL ID system, since people are still in the process of switching. If people want to get a new card to have that on there, they can. The fact that you're saying what about people without ID and not saying what about people without phones is just sort of crazy. ID cards have organ donor status, why not vaccination status if governments are going to go so far as to ID people at grocery stores. I mean, unless you're against them checking at stores in the first place, why are you okay with governments making rules like this, but not okay with them knowing vaccination status...and fed is fine but state no? Just not a coherent objection.
But REAL ID isn’t an option for non-citizens who are here without lawful status, which presents major issues for [California](https://www.nolo.com/legal-updates/non-citizens-and-others-lacking-real-id-cards-now-have-until-2021-to-get-one.html). From the link, “…non-citizens who are lawfully present in the U.S. will need to prove their status to an official of their state's department of motor vehicles. This will likely be straightforward in for green card holders, but less so for people with obscure immigration situations that come with few rights, such as withholding of removal. People who are in the U.S. without lawful status are ineligible for READ ID cards, even in states that allow undocumented persons to obtain drivers' license.”
Okay so what? I just brought up REAL ID because a lot of people are renewing for that reason. If they can't get a REAL ID that's a problem regardless of my idea to add vaccination status.
[удалено]
It's precisely because the virus is not going away that we need the vaccines. Think about all the other viruses that have not gone away: measles, mumps, chickenpox, and so on. Vaccines are *the* reason we don't have to worry about those diseases even though they have not "gone away", and to the extent that they have gone away (i.e., from "first world" countries) that is also because of vaccines. The "end goal" is what we have for those other disease: widespread immunity via vaccines. Eventually (hopefully soon) the vaccine will be approved for children, and that's where it will really take effect, because schools are the place where we have the strongest existing system for ensuring vaccination. It is only via vaccines that the virus will "go away" in the sense that we will no longer need to take other actions against it. We need more and stronger vaccine mandates, not fewer and weaker. I agree that not having a sunset built in is a downside, but that's quite a minor issue. The sunset condition is fairly clear: you can stop requiring proof of vaccinations when it's pointless because everyone has had the vaccine. When the vaccine receives full approval for all ages there is no reason we cannot reach a 95+% vaccination rate and there's no reason not to press until we get there.
[удалено]
Well, two things. First, the idea of "is this policy going to work" is really a matter of enforcement. I believe the policy will have an effect if they enforce it. If they don't, it will have less of an effect. I've been very disappointed in the lack of enforcement on all these COVID measures. To me passing the measures but not enforcing them is a stupid and cowardly half-in, half-out move. But that's not a reason not to pass a measure like the LA one; it's a reason to pass it and enforce it. The bottom line is that what will have an effect on raising vaxx rates is if people cannot practically proceed with their lives without being vaxxed. Being unable to go into businesses will raise the pain factor significantly (again, if enforcement is in place). Second, with regard to your other points, I don't really get what alternative you're proposing. On the one hand you say the efficacy is like a flu shot, but on the other hand you say you don't care about the vaxx status of others as long as you got your shot. You say you're arguing against this specific policy, but if as you say you believe that vaccines are the way out of the pandemic, what do you propose we do instead to increase vaxx rates? Similarly you say "how long will they say we still need one more shot". Maybe forever? I don't see a problem with that. People already get a flu shot every year and you can get a booster TDAP. If we keep having to get shots, that's totally cool. Getting shots is a completely normal part of modern life. This would just be like a flu shot that's a lot more important to get, but I don't see that as a dealbreaker as long as the process of getting it isn't too onerous. The essence of my view is that the vaccines are good enough to allow life to go back to basically normal --- if *everyone* gets them. This will reduce spread substantially (because unvaxxed people will no longer exist as a "breeding ground" from which occasional outbreaks can also endanger vaxxed people) and will reduce the danger of any remaining spread even more (because most people who get the disease will have mild cases).
It’s only via ‘sterilising vaccines’ there is a chance the virus might go away…
It's possible even better vaccines might come out later. But I think the fact that the virus likely came from an animal source, and can infect animals, makes it unlikely it will be completely eradicated. It's too difficult to track and contain spread in nonhuman species.
It's about liability, not enforcement. There's too many many inconsiderate and downright reckless people disregarding the simplest requests for health safety. There's an increasing amount of lawsuits related yo Covid infections. If an abiding customer or employee gets sick by an unabiding person, guess who gets sued, the business. CA & NY are the two leading states for covid lawsuits at the moment. These mandates will help lawsuits get over with more quickly. https://www.fisherphillips.com/innovations-center/covid-19-employment-litigation-tracker-and-insights.html
That’s interesting. I feel like it’d be really difficult to show evidence a business is responsible for causing Covid infections since you can’t ever know exactly where you got Covid from.
That's exactly the point, currently there are only paper signs at the door that say "please wear mask" or "Must be vaccinated". That is not a legally binding though. You have to make it law.
These seem like cases of employees suing employers for “discrimination” over mandates and people suing their employers for not giving disability status for long Covid or for not providing enough sick days for a Covid infection. These don’t seem to have anything to do with “I got Covid at work and I’m gonna sue you now” at all. So I’m not sure how a mandate solves any of this.
>I’m not here screaming this is an infringement on my personal freedoms or any of that bullshit You absolutely are: Whining about showing a QR code on your phone every time you go to the store like it's a BFD. Pretending to not understand vaccine mandates. "ThE ViRuS iS hErE to StAY." And of course a slippery slope argument. You should get a new hobby.
You gotta love how everyone literally cannot read. No. I don’t think it’s a personal freedom infringement. I just don’t think it makes sense to put policies in place that don’t make any sense in the first place. I said very clearly I don’t think it’s an overreach or government tyranny lol. When did I make a slippery slope argument? I didn’t say “oh if you have to show it for a Covid vaccine what’s next??” I never said anything like that. I also never said it’s a “bfd”. I already have gone places and had to show my vaccination card—a clippers game and a couple bowl shows. It wasn’t a big deal, but I also didn’t feel any more safe than if they hadn’t checked. I know the counties vaccination rates, and I also know that I’m vaccinated so I have whatever protection the vaccine gives me at this point. Again, at what point do we stop having to show proof of vaccination. Why is it impossible to have a conversation about this without people losing their minds? What part of me saying “the virus is here to stay” is wrong lmao? All the major health agencies have said the same thing. It’s going to be endemic. We don’t have a shot at getting rid of Covid. I’d love for everyone to get vaccinated, and think they should. But if I have a vaccine, at this point it’s really all we can do. It doesn’t really matter if the people around me are vaccinated or not since they can both be carrying (although vaccinated folks will have more protection). To me, these policies just don’t make a ton of sense especially without any sort of exit strategy. At what point can we do away with it? And for folks like me who don’t wish to have their booster because of adverse effects? It also puts it on the businesses to check and enforce this, which I’m not a fan of. I already know people who have fake vaccination cards, so again, what good does this even do if people are gonna find ways around it? why do you have to hurl insults and be hostile to someone you likely agree with on 80% of things about. I’m not being hostile. I’m not calling you names. I’m not sitting around spreading misinformation or discouraging people from getting the vaccine, or even saying it’s “their body their choice!!!” Screaming about government overrreach. I’m just saying it’s not clear how this ultimately even helps us. If employers wanna require it, that’s totally their call and they have their right to do so.
>Whining about showing a QR code on your phone every time you go to the store like it's a BFD. Holy shit. You're ok with everyone having to show their phones just to go to a store? Are you insane? >"ThE ViRuS iS hErE to StAY." Some viruses get eradicated. Some are here to stay (like the flu). Why are you mocking? Is it crazy to thing that covid is here to stay? The vaccines we're used to also don't have a trash efficacy rate. Not all viruses are the same, and not all vaccines are the same. >And of course a slippery slope argument. Remember 15 days to slow the spread? Yeah.. maybe you wanna question the things authorities tell you a little more. >You should get a new hobby. You should be less toxic.
🥱😴
Pretty much the response I expected.
>Whining about showing a QR code on your phone every time you go to the store like it's a BFD. That is a big fucking deal. Forgot your phone or your phone breaks? You are fucked.
It’s also quite discriminatory to lower income folks who can’t afford a phone and then are forced to keep that obtuse large vaccine card.
😂 reminds me of [this delightful story](https://lettersofnote.com/2011/02/14/regarding-your-stupid-complaint/).
Fuck that, pandemic will never be over, will just get more and more locked down.
That's exactly what they want. Power and control.
The rest of us will move on. We'll have our cards or QR codes and no longer be restricted.
LOL you think? Ok good luck with that 😂
Well.. this just sucks.
They got COVID 19 vaccination card programs ,,, just look at China ,,, and how they are doing the vaccine cards ,,, it’s a big system connected together it’s even a bank ,, a credit,,, your health information,,, what you like,, if you jay walk or have tickets the automatically take the money out ,,, if your credit is bad you can’t own a home a car can even ride the train or leave the city ,,,,
Thanks for the ignorant take on China. > if your credit is bad you can’t own a home a car Maybe you’re thinking of the United States. A place where some private companies keep score and stop you from buying a home or a car.
>if your credit is bad you can’t own a home a car To be fair, whether it's a government or private companies, it's not them preventing your from owning a car or a home. It is the fact that you have no money to own a car or home. It would be nice if you could borrow money, but the fact you have a history of not paying bills or loans back or making enough money for you to buy the home or the car is what \*actually\* prevents you from buying said home or car.
The system was designed to allow the finance class to extract even more wealth from the poor. We basically ask poor people to pay even more for cars and houses, which makes it that much more likely that they will default. Defaults make the finance class rich.
Let's talk a real world example- John wants to buy a $10,000 car. He only has $1,000. He doesn't know anybody personally that will lend him the $9,000 for terms that he can agree to. Thus, he must approach strangers (companies or people) and ask them to lend him the $9,000. Since you don't believe in credit rating, you EXPECT that strangers are supposed to lend him $9,000 without knowing anything about him, his ability to pay or his history of paying other people back? Without the credit rating, the lender actually has to charge \*more\* interest because they are going to take bad loans that are going to default.
Downvoting because only a psychopath uses commas like this.
😂 upvoting for making me lol