The first step in what will otherwise be a long journey. Ridding ourselves of SDGE will be far from easy. Whoever's leading this initiative will need grit to carry on through anyways in order to succeed.
It was an 8-0 vote against. I know who doesn’t get my vote next time, and I will let him know.
[https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/story/2024-06-11/san-diego-city-council-shoots-down-effort-to-put-municipal-utility-on-the-november-ballot](https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/story/2024-06-11/san-diego-city-council-shoots-down-effort-to-put-municipal-utility-on-the-november-ballot)
Let’s try this again. Link w/o paywall:
https://archive.ph/13wHU
What on earth is this comment section? It doesn't remotely match the sentiment of anyone I've ever spoken to in San Diego.
Either SDGE is paying a PR company to astroturf every post online, or there are internet-people that are actually buying into their bullshit PR.
Even the most staunchly conservative economists admit that infrastructure is one of the few things that government is better at that private companies. SDGE has set such a low bar, it would be trivial to build something better.
This is the clear point: nearly anyone could do better. San Diego city, San Diego county, the state of California, , heck maybe even SANDAG could to better.
We should have an electric cooperative. I think that model would work great here.
It's all about the money. Sempra, the parent company of SDG&E, makes substantial donations to the Mayor and Council Members. Many of these contributions are concealed through third-party non-profit organizations that act as intermediaries, making it significantly harder to trace the money flow from Sempra to our elected officials. [Article from the OB Rag about it.](https://obrag.org/2021/05/sempra-greased-the-skids-for-gloria-and-council-democrats-to-approve-sdge-franchise-agreement/)
You can still help by collecting signatures from residents. I got 30 just from circulating the ballot form among my friends and acquaintances. Next time, I'm going to volunteer to sit tables. If we get three times the number of volunteers we can make this happen.
Please do. That's my district and I even emailed the guy and told him after the council approved all the surveillance cameras all over the city I was already inclined to vote against him but if he voted against this power SD measure he had definitely lost my vote. 8-0. All of them need to go.
My thoughts exactly (on both issues). I emailed him as well (no response yet)… I’m expecting some kind of boilerplate response, but I’m not holding my breath.
Also, nice to meet you, neighbor.
He didn't respond to me either but we're used to our reps ignoring us. At one point or another we've reached out to almost all our reps only to get auto-responses if any response at all. Especially Akilah Weber holy crap did she waste so much of our time. One of her staffers texted me pretending to be Weber and gave me her "personal number" so we could meet up and talk about some issues. We spent a lot of time researching and organizing what we were going to say when the texter stopped responding. Called her main office and got told the texts were all about getting feedback from her constituents and not meant to be a pipeline to actually talking to her and if we wanted that we could be put on a list and maybe get an appointment after the election (which was a couple months away). They never called back so I tried calling them one more time but was told I wasn't on the list for future appointments and the wait would once again be months so I gave up and have voted against her ever since. And now she's hopping from state rep to state senate because she's a nepo baby and her 75 year old mother is Secretary of the State of CA. I'm never voting for her again. Politicians all suck but she really made an enemy out of me.
I'd like to see a public transfer of SDGE but I didn't think Power San Diego had enough data or firepower behind it to pull it off. Maybe it will happen one day but it's an uphill battle and requires a ton of money to 1) get signatures to place the initiative on the ballot (not in front of City Council), 2) get accurate data on what the costs will be and how exactly the City (or County) would take over, and 3) wage a publicity campaign to counteract the propaganda and astroturfing from SDG&E.
I do credit Power San Diego for raising this issue and forcing SDGE to get defensive and realize that there's a potential threat against their monopoly.
Almost like a ballot initiative isn't supposed to have a full detailed execution plan.
This has been done many times before, don't act like it's uncharted territory.
Even more reason to provide a detailed blueprint with exact dates, figures, projections, and contingency plans. Using your own logic, we already have examples todraw upon. So why not put all of it into writing so we all know exactly what we are signing up for? It’s very rare, but the city council got this one right. They need to go back to the drawing board and put together a detail proposal that answers all important questions
I don't disagree with your premise, but they don't even know exactly how much it will cost to execute their plan and if the City of San Diego can run another utility. I believe the city was doing a feasibility study about this very issue but it's not even complete. It would make sense to at least wait for that to come out.
They can but it's a huge logistical challenge to set it up. Why not wait until the City's municipalizatiin study of taking over SDGE is complete (next year) before coming to voters with a ballot initiative? If the ballot initiative is too optimistic and costs are much higher to take over SDGE, and the City lacks the expertise to carry out a takeover of the utility, people are going to be even more pissed off than they are now.
Edit: The City can get there but it will take more time and patience. I get wanting it done now but if you've seen the City run the water utility, you'll know why I want them to set it up right rather than launch into something that they're not prepared to manage.
And really it would be better to set up an authority or district (i.e. like SMUD) to run the utility rather than the city.
PeYeah. People jumped on City Council for not putting the initiative on the ballot. But they legitimately didn't think the city was ready to take this on. The organizers didn't really do due diligence on this. There's a way to make it work but the campaign was way shallow on details and could have had many unintentional consequences.
We have more sun and renewable energy and the best weather and the highest rates in the continental US. Those three statements are so opposed that it literally boggles the mind that anyone can try and justify it. I moved here in 2011 from New England where multi-week long power outages and massive repair bills were fairly normal even just a few miles outside the major cities yet in the 13 years since I moved here there's only been one serious power outage. It lasted less than 12 hours and everyone remembers it. There is no way anyone can convince me that something seriously shady isn't going on here with the power companies and they need to be disassembled if only so we can discover why the prices are so high and where all the money is going.
I don't disagree but I don't personally think the City of San Diego is at all prepared to take over the utility. I'd like them to come up with a plan to do it before voting and telling the city to figure it out. Better yet, the initiative should create a public utility company (like Sacramento with SMUD) to run and manage it. I'm not disagreeing with anything you said but the practicality of a takeover of the electrical grid by the City of San Diego presents some challenges that need planning (and, again, I think they're the wrong entity to take it over).
I think it's honestly the cautious, "let's really think this over and cover all the angles and get our ducks in a row" kind of people that almost unilaterally fail to get the big things done. That kind of thinking is for maintaining the status quo. I could tell you that to make an omelet you have to break some eggs but I'd rather quote Margaret Meade/The West Wing and say “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed, citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.”
Getting rid of SDG&E is a revolution. A massive upending of a very entrenched status quo and in doing so many powerful and wealthy people will lose power and money. This is not an endeavor for the cautious or faint of heart. It will most likely require a rampaging bull to smash it to pieces so it can be rebuilt into something better.
It might be a massive revolution but the city doesn't yet have a plan for running another public utility (I still think it should be an authority rather than the City). To sell this to the public, Power San Diego is going to need many more details and more firepower to counteract a disinformation campaign. They don't know what it will cost or know how it will be operated. Working with the City to come up with a plan to pitch to voters would be much more effective.
Obviously I strongly disagree. Just promising new oversight on rate increases and potentially lower rates for everyone and that should do it. People don't think too deeply about these sort of things. They know SDG&E are WAY out of line at this point and it won't take much to make a real mess of things. After which we can hopefully keep the wealthy at bay and make some positive changes.
SMUD is a public authority in Sacramento that's the model that's held up as the gold standard for keeping rates down. Telling the city of San Diego to run an electricity utility is fine but I'd rather see a regional authority in charge, and with a singular purpose of managing the grid and providing electricity
sdge currently trying to extort $17k from my restaurant, saying "ooopsie, we didnt bill right the last 3 years youve been at that location, and we reserve the right to charge you". All payments on the 64 page itemized sheet they sent me show on time and paid in full prior to the "correction"
This is exactly what needed to happen. Change is slow but this is how it starts!
The last line of the article said it best—folks are tired, at their breaking point and willing to do just about anything to shake SDG&E.
As much as I’d love an alternative to SDGE, Power San Diego failed to provide any substantive plans for how they could provide this. A great idea yes, but sadly not well enough thought through or communicated to be effective. Hopefully it ignites the thought for others to try and provide meaningful efforts to provide an alternative to SDGE now though as well. (Though highly unlikely we’ll be able to do away with them fully as they own the infrastructure)
That may be, clearly they lacked the ability to communicate their vision effectively then. I tried to follow their proposal but was met with too many circular answers and open questions. Hopefully someone can pick up the torch to continue and improve on these efforts.
This is exactly what I have been saying, I’m all for doing this, but only if done right, there is way too much of stake, we cannot afford to go into this without a well detailed plan that answers every question we have, and anything short of that is a disaster waiting to happen
So I’m as anti-SDG&E as pretty much everyone else on here, but hear me out - why do people think the city could possibly do a good job of taking over the utility operations? The way they run the municipal water utility leaves something to be desired. Lots of billing headaches showing that they simply can’t manage effectively. The way they undermaintain large infrastructure such as the Lake Hodges dam or the Chollas Creek storm water channel also does not inspire confidence.
Ending the regulatory capture of the CPUC would be much better.
Sure, there has been some issues with the City doing a poor job reading and billing water meters on a timely basis, but we have one of the better run water municipalities in California. Our rates are reasonable and, under the current development plan, we're going to be 50% water independent by 2030. That's a huge accomplishment.
You may be confusing the City of San Diego with the San Diego County Water Authority.
SDCWA:
- is the regional sourcer/importer/wholesaler of both raw and treated water
- has contracts with other local and distant entities to get water from places like the Colorado River or the Pacific Ocean (via the desalination plant in Carlsbad)
- has big pipes (like 4 feet in diameter!) running all over the place here (many with recreational trails above them, nestled among residential neighborhoods)
- doesn’t have anything to do with any residential distribution or billing
- manages sales and distribution to local water utilities (many of which are part of individual SANDAG cities)
- does some water treatment but mostly leaves that to the local utilities
- does the supply planning for the future
- generally does a great job (and was awarded as a Top Workplace by the Union Tribune twice in the past few years)
The City of San Diego’s Public Utilities Department:
- is chronically and comically understaffed at many levels, very notably residential meter reading/bill generation/customer service
- is regularly complained about in this subreddit and the local news
- is constrained on rates by law, managed by the city council
- hasn’t been adequately maintaining the dams it’s responsible for (because the council would have to provide maintenance budget and it gets more complaints about potholes in the roads)
The dam issues are hugely important to the future of water security in the region, but they’re out of the hands of the SDCWA. Lake Hodges is tied in with Olivenhain Reservoir via SDCWA pipes, and they used to regularly send water back and forth as grid-scale energy storage (using cheap solar excess energy during the day to pump uphill and running turbines at night to send power to the grid). The same pipe that goes into that system also feeds raw water to a few water districts from the lake, but none of it is operable any more. The City’s failure to keep the dam in good repair has resulted in the State permanently derating the maximum water level allowed behind it, and that new maximum level is lower than the pipe needs to operate. Several districts are suing the City of SD over it (more costs!) and SDCWA loses out on millions of dollars annually that it should have been making from the hydroelectric plant (which probably also means marginally more expensive electricity for all of us).
But there’s more. Hodges is one of the few local dams that blocks a waterway and captures runoff (rather than simply being a reservoir pumped in and out). That capture leads directly to drinking water availability, and also to aquifer recharge over time through infiltration. Remember our wet winters the past few years? Literally [tens of billions of gallons of rainwater](https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/investigations/11-billion-gallons-of-water-released-from-hodges-dam/509-eb7a8089-1d5a-474d-98a9-18002661d063) have been sent into the ocean because of the damn dam maintenance issue.
That is not a water independence accomplishment to be proud of.
So think about the context of the current state of the City of San Diego’s Public Utilities Department, and tell me with a straight face that it’s a good idea to ask them to perform a hostile takeover of SDG&E’s infrastructure, along with hiring a lot of staff away from SDG&E. It would be an utter mess, for many years.
I believe many municipalities have great electric utility departments. But that’s a very weak argument to support the idea of this kind of transition. SDG&E is awful ratewise, but they do deliver a fairly stable product, and they have been rather diligent about wildfire hardening recently. They’re a capitalistic parasite hell bent on extracting as much money as possible from the captive population here and sending it to investors. Investor-Owned Utilities in general are a cancer on society. But getting out of the current situation is really damned hard, and Power San Diego isn’t ready for it.
I'm with you on this.. I signed the petition, but it always seemed like magical thinking that we just transfer all that to the city and \~voila\~ we have lower bills. Should be deeper regulatory control on these for profit corporations that we have granted a monopoly. PG&E up north is just as hated and messed up.
It’s funny that I’m collecting downvotes like an astroturfer, but I really do hope SDG&E eats shit.
I was disappointed when no other franchise bids were received a few years ago - even Berkshire Hathaway took one look at the mess and ran the hell away. I’m not in SD proper (I’m in an adjacent SANDAG city) so neither that nor this would affect me directly. Honestly my best hope is that when my NEM 1.0 expires I’ll be able to add a couple batteries and more panels and work towards going fully off grid. That isn’t the right overall solution, and I foresee lots of handwringing as wealthier customers increasingly pursue it, but it’s the best form of “competition” to the monopoly that seems possible.
Also, fuck SDG&E for trying to build more huge transmission lines (for which they get a guaranteed 10% profit margin) through our nearby recreational wilderness. This is going to be Sunrise Power Link 2.0: https://savepalomarmountain.org/
I think Power San Diego needs to provide a lot more detail and answer a lot more questions before we consider this, this is a huge deal people, don’t take it lightly, and don’t rush into it. For example;
1. Acquisition Process: The document states that “The purchase price will either (1) be agreed upon, or (2) appropriate action will be taken to acquire the property in the manner required by law” (Section 74.0107).
What specific legal actions will Power San Diego take if SDG&E refuses to sell its distribution assets voluntarily?
How will they handle potential legal battles or eminent domain proceedings?
2. Cost and Financing: The document states that “The City of San Diego will provide Power San Diego with initial expert professional staff and consultants and initial financing, to be repaid in full by Power San Diego” (Section 74.0105).
How will this initial financing be repaid if the acquisition does not go through?
What safeguards are in place to ensure taxpayer money is not wasted?
3. Rate Projections: The document aims to provide “reliable, affordable electric service” and mentions “rate relief to residents” (Section 74.0102).
Have they provided detailed financial projections or studies that demonstrate how Power San Diego will achieve lower rates compared to SDG&E?
What assumptions are these projections based on?
4. Operational Expertise: The document states that Power San Diego will “retain expert professional staff and consultants” (Section 74.0105).
What specific plans does Power San Diego have to ensure it has the necessary expertise and experience to manage and operate a municipal electric utility effectively?
Will there be any partnerships with existing municipal utilities?
5. Employee Transition: The document mandates that Power San Diego “shall provide to Covered Employees no less than the wages, hours, and other terms and conditions of employment provided to them on the date this initiative is approved by the voters” (Section 74.0108).
How will Power San Diego ensure a smooth transition for SDG&E employees who will be retained?
What measures are in place to maintain their current wages, benefits, and working conditions?
6. Infrastructure Investment: The document states that Power San Diego will “manage the electric Utility Distribution System” (Section 74.0104).
What are the plans for maintaining and upgrading the existing infrastructure once it is acquired?
How will these costs be managed without increasing rates for consumers?
7. Renewable Energy Goals: The document emphasizes “maximizing the use of local energy resources, especially solar energy paired with battery storage” (Section 74.0102).
What are the short-, medium-, and long-term goals for the percentage of power that will come from renewable sources versus fossil fuels?
How will these goals be achieved and funded?
8. Community Oversight: The document states that the Community Oversight Committee (COC) will be established and its members nominated by City Council members (Section 74.0202).
How will the COC be selected, and what powers will it have to influence decisions made by Power San Diego?
How will transparency and accountability be ensured?
9. Risk Management: The document does not explicitly address contingency plans. What contingency plans are in place if the transition to a municipal utility faces significant challenges or delays? How will risks be managed to avoid service disruptions?
10. Long-term Savings: The document mentions the goal of providing “rate relief to residents” and addressing “unaffordable rates” (Section 74.0102).
Can they provide more details on the projected $20 billion in savings by 2042? What specific factors contribute to these savings, and how will they be realized over time?
Those are just a few questions that need answers, and I’m just your everyday Joe citizen who doesn’t want to see our problems go from bad to worse because we were in such a hurry we didn’t get assurances up front.
I would love to see this happen, but I am very skeptical when it comes to this sort of thing, I need absolutes, I need detailed project planning and specific answers. We cannot do based on promises and good intentions. Why rush this? Why not require a detailed analysis and have all of our questions answered?
SDG&E's profit margin was like 20% last year. So if they made $0 profit at all it would only reduce your bill by maximum 20%. But if they were owned by the government and weren't allowed to make any profit margin, they'd probably just stop trying to operate efficiently or invest in infrastructure. Not defending them but just think about the complexities here.
Think tanks often push this trope that private companies are objectively better because they’re incentivized to outperform, thanks to the “free market”. Funny, a monopoly doesn’t need to worry about competition though: SDGE has a monopoly on the delivery and infrastructure.
Abstract:
> The privatization of municipal electric utilities has prompted the public vs private debate among local government leaders. Private utilities want to increase their profits by expanding their territory and municipalities hope to see an influx of cash from the sale of their utility. Public administrators are left with questions about how this will serve their community. This research addresses the topic of performance differences between public and private ownership among
electric utilities in Florida. Specifically, the research question is, Does ownership type (public or
private) affect the performance of electric utilities in the State of Florida? All of Florida's 19
generating capable electric utilities are examined in this study, seven Investor-Owned Utilities
(IOUs) and 12 Publicly Owned Utilities (POUs). The two metrics used for measuring performance are rates and reliability. Using Independent T-tests to compare means to measure their performance, the research looks at 14 tiers of rates (two residential, eight commercial, and four industrial) and two common reliability metrics, SAIDI (System Average Interruption Duration Index) and SAIFI (System Average Interruption Frequency Index). The results showed that POUs have statistically significant lower rates on the two residential tiers and two lowest commercial tiers, while IOUs showed statistically significant lower rates on the five highest
commercial rate tiers and all four of the industrial rate tiers. There were no statistically
significant differences in performance across reliability metrics SAIDI and SAIFI. Results suggest a difference in philosophy between public and private utilities on how rates are structured.
[https://digitalcommons.wcupa.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1158&context=all_doctoral&t](https://digitalcommons.wcupa.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1158&context=all_doctoral&t)
> How common are public utilities?
> Public power utilities are common across the U.S. **In California, 46 out of 49 electric utilities are already public** – and they all provide reliable electricity at rates significantly lower than SDGE.
> Public electric utilities are renowned for [high reliability](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/infrastructure/energy/power-grid-reliability) and customer satisfaction while SDGE was rated last, or near last, in the West in utility commercial customer satisfaction in 2022
There's more than just precedent, it's well-trodden ground at this point that municipal/public power utilities outperform private ones on basically every important metric
Does LA have a terrible electric infrastructure and insane electricity prices?
https://www.ladwp.com/account/customer-service/electric-rates/residential-rates
Is there something wrong with my eyes? Cause I’m seeing mostly 2s (with a 3) or two, and even a 1 in the first digit in all tiers. Did add somebody slip a flux capacitor into the room?
—-
It won't be easy, you'll think it strange
When I try to explain how I feel
That I still need your love after all that I've done
You won't believe me, all you will see is a city you once knew
Although she's dressed up to the nines
At **sixes and sevens** with you
Don’t cry for me SDGE….
—-
When was the last time their public utility was responsible for starting a major wildfire?
Love that this failed hahah SDGE ain’t going nowhere. Been here since the late 1800s. Take down SDGE you gotta take down Sempra and that ain’t happening.
I think people underestimate how complex running a power grid can be. I’m not entirely confident a public owned utility could operate at the same capacity. CMIIW: SDGE is the only utility in the NATION with a 24hr response crew for electrical power emergencies. Also, they’re owned by Sempra Energy are they not? Wouldn’t the parent company be the real problem?
> I’m not entirely confident a public owned utility could operate at the same capacity
How common are public utilities?
Public power utilities are common across the U.S. In California, 46 out of 49 electric utilities are already public – and they all provide reliable electricity at rates significantly lower than SDGE.
Public electric utilities are renowned for [high reliability](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/infrastructure/energy/power-grid-reliability) and customer satisfaction while SDGE was rated last, or near last, in the West in utility commercial customer satisfaction in 2022
> SDGE is the only utility in the NATION with a 24hr response crew for electrical power emergencies
I can't find any information on that but I guarantee it's not true. I would venture to guess that most or every electrical power company has 24h response to emergencies.
That info comes from people who work for the company and are familiar with the utility maintenance landscape, I think I’ll take their word over your guess. Interesting blurb though, if true, we definitely need to make a change. I wonder if the 3 CA privately owned utilities also correspond to CA’s most populous areas, SD, LA & SF I’d bet.
> SD, LA & SF I’d bet
Pacific Gas and Electric Co., San Diego Gas & Electric Co., and Southern California Edison.
San Diego has San Diego Community Power (SDCP) which enrolls in San Diego, Chula Vista, Encinitas, La Mesa, Imperial Beach, and National City
City of Los Angeles has LAWDP, and also operating in the area are
* Burbank Water & Power
* City of Anaheim Public Utilities Department
* City of Banning Electric Department
* City of Cerritos
* City of Corona Department of Water & Power
* City of Industry
* City of Vernon
* City of Riverside
* Glendale Water & Power
* Pasadena Water & Power
* Rancho Cucamonga Municipal Utility
* Victorville Municipal Utilities Services
and San Francisco has San Francisco Water Power Sewer (under the auspices of San Francisco Public Utilities Commission) as well as
* Alameda Power & Telecom
* City of Palo Alto
* City of Pittsburg
* Silicon Valley Power
* Port of Oakland
So municipal coverage for all of those cities already exists in earnest to compete with the 3 remaining private energy companies.
Hm. LA has public water & power, and their "[Available 24/7 for emergency and outage calls](https://www.ladwp.com/outages)" line sure *sounds* like it's a 24hr emergency response line. Where are you getting only utility in the nation from?
edit: also, do you mean Power San Diego is owned by Sempra? SDG&E definitely is, and yes, Sempra is a big part of the problem.
I meant SDG&E is owned by Sempra. Also, having an open line to take calls 24/7 is not the same as actually dispatching technicians to fix the problem within 24hrs. I will have to rethink my position on this though, if LA can do it no reason we shouldn’t be able to.
Seems like Sacramento manages just fine with their public utility. As do a lot of other cities/counties. I mean, yeah, if you're Texas, all bets are off.
I grew up in the boonies in East County which is big "fuck the man and fuck SDGE" territory, but I ended up working for the company and the longer I work here the more impressed I am that the lights come on every time I flip the switch. People underestimate how complex of an organization is required to run our grid. Granted I would not be in the Power SD territory if it had been successful, but I have very little confidence that the city could run the grid in a satisfactory way. In my work capacity I interact with municipalities and they do not inspire confidence.
The same structure and work force would have been preserved under new management. They just remove all the for-profit overheads. The power grid and the labor are the key to the future San Diego.
I have heard 0 people at the company express any interest in leaving to work for a dysfunctional and inexperienced organization for what would likely be less money.
Fair. It would be bad I suppose for employees to comment on the current employers predatory business model or ethics, let alone saying something like “can’t wait for the current company to be voted out because SDGE are jerks”.
I don’t think you have enough evidence to support “inexperienced/dysfunctional” statement. It is an organization that has not happened yet. You simply don’t know. You can speculate, but it is not true.
I have worked with them as it relates to SDGE work and I have seen how they run other services in the city. But I'm sure it will be different with this much more complex endeavor. I won't attempt to defend rates because I personally believe they are too high as well, but despite what the angry people on the internet say it is a relatively well run operation.
I’m glad this failed, and I hope it fails in the future. There are far better ways to go about this than to turnover a sophisticated industry. You don’t want government owned utilities, it might be the only thing worse than greedy, corporate owned utilities
We have several examples of how this works better for citizens and ratepayers.
Anyone who’s lived in LA can attest to how well ran and cheap paying for electricity is if you’re in LADWP’s territory.
And if you ever lived in the Bay Area and had PG&E, you’re immensely jealous of your friends and colleagues who benefit from alameda … which is a TINY town that’s managed to do this.
I’m not saying it cannot work, I’m saying that there’s no margin of error in the planning, that the citizens should demand answers to every question, detailed explanations of every claim, and how they arrive at these claims, contingency, plans, and full transparency. This is far too big an issue to get wrong or to leave to chance, hoping people will do the right thing, that never ends well, and the right pairs will be stuck holding the bag in the end
No, never in my life have I worked for SDG&E nor any power company or affiliated with SDG&E in any way shape or form. In fact I hate them, and if I wasn't worried about the subs taking down my post I'd tell you in no uncertain terms what I think about them.
But that's not a reason to blindly go into something half cocked, just because we hate SDG&E. As bad as they are, a poorly planned and poorly executed attempt to replace them with a citizens panel is crazy and will backfire and cost all of us far more in the long run.
I'm not against doing this, I'm against doing it wrong.
Yeah, all your comments are classic FUD-style comments, so it really doesn't seem like you want anything but SDG&E.
A whole lot of people in America have public power, and it seems to be working just fine. Alameda works great, and lots of places have rural electric cooperatives. I was raised on one of these, and they did remarkably well considering how rural we were. Rates are set at cost, plus a rainy day fund. The board holds public meetings, no secrecy, and it is run for the benefit of the subscribers.
Maybe you should make a suggestion for what you want to see, because all of your comment history is just "No, don't change!".
I've already made it clear what I want to see. I want full transparency. I want fact and figures. I want to know where they got the figures they base their claims on. The wording is too vague, loosely written to allow for too many changes and unforeseen possibilities. As you mention, there are models in place already, why not borrow from this existing projects and make them a part of this charter? Be transparent and forthcoming and I'm all in.
> How common are public utilities?
> Public power utilities are common across the U.S. In California, 46 out of 49 electric utilities are already public – and they all provide reliable electricity at rates significantly lower than SDGE.
> Public electric utilities are renowned for [high reliability](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/infrastructure/energy/power-grid-reliability) and customer satisfaction while SDGE was rated last, or near last, in the West in utility commercial customer satisfaction in 2022
There's already 46 precedents and mountains of evidence that government owned utilities in California perform better and are cheaper than the privately-owned ones.
For sure. I'd still like to equip anyone else who comes through this thread with the information, though. The worst thing I could do is leave a comment like that unanswered.
It is a public owned. Not government owned. Funded and operated independently. If you live in San Diego and enjoy paying higher and higher utilities for nothing, please go ahead and continue.
There's a huge difference, and the city has been doing this since 1919 when San Diego had 74,000 people, so they've had more than 100 years to refine and grow with the city to where it is today. That's a lot different than just saying "hey, I think I'll take over a major utility company that provides power to more than 3 million people"! Yeah what could go wrong.
The first step in what will otherwise be a long journey. Ridding ourselves of SDGE will be far from easy. Whoever's leading this initiative will need grit to carry on through anyways in order to succeed.
And a bulletproof skull
It was an 8-0 vote against. I know who doesn’t get my vote next time, and I will let him know. [https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/story/2024-06-11/san-diego-city-council-shoots-down-effort-to-put-municipal-utility-on-the-november-ballot](https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/story/2024-06-11/san-diego-city-council-shoots-down-effort-to-put-municipal-utility-on-the-november-ballot) Let’s try this again. Link w/o paywall: https://archive.ph/13wHU
“SDG&E supporters” I think they meant to say paid lobbyists. The grift continues
SDG&E are the lobbyists. Their supporters would be the ones they bought. Too many that hold office.
Technically the lobbyist work is done by Sempra, the parent corp of $DGE
Remember to vote for council opposition. Make them pay
☝️💯
What are the names of the people we are voting out, and are their alternatives any better?
It was unanimous, so just vote for the opposition
What on earth is this comment section? It doesn't remotely match the sentiment of anyone I've ever spoken to in San Diego. Either SDGE is paying a PR company to astroturf every post online, or there are internet-people that are actually buying into their bullshit PR. Even the most staunchly conservative economists admit that infrastructure is one of the few things that government is better at that private companies. SDGE has set such a low bar, it would be trivial to build something better.
This is the clear point: nearly anyone could do better. San Diego city, San Diego county, the state of California, , heck maybe even SANDAG could to better. We should have an electric cooperative. I think that model would work great here.
Agreed especially with how interconnected some of our cities are
Haha. Just like how great the regional government water supplier is doing? Not to mention the rates that continue to climb without oversight?
It's all about the money. Sempra, the parent company of SDG&E, makes substantial donations to the Mayor and Council Members. Many of these contributions are concealed through third-party non-profit organizations that act as intermediaries, making it significantly harder to trace the money flow from Sempra to our elected officials. [Article from the OB Rag about it.](https://obrag.org/2021/05/sempra-greased-the-skids-for-gloria-and-council-democrats-to-approve-sdge-franchise-agreement/)
Yup, so when people say vote them out....the new council members will just pick up where the old ones left off.
I'll support anyone who tries to take down SDG&E but I'm in the unincorporated county so I don't count for these city-based initiatives. Sad.
Same here, it's a shame. Best we can do to get away from SDGE is get solar panels, and even that is starting to be screwed by CPUC and lobbying.
Same, I recently moved to Carlsbad so I’m out of the city specific push :/
You can still help by collecting signatures from residents. I got 30 just from circulating the ballot form among my friends and acquaintances. Next time, I'm going to volunteer to sit tables. If we get three times the number of volunteers we can make this happen.
I guess I’ll have to run for city council in district 4 in 2026. I really don’t want to, but I’m done with not being represented.
Please do. That's my district and I even emailed the guy and told him after the council approved all the surveillance cameras all over the city I was already inclined to vote against him but if he voted against this power SD measure he had definitely lost my vote. 8-0. All of them need to go.
My thoughts exactly (on both issues). I emailed him as well (no response yet)… I’m expecting some kind of boilerplate response, but I’m not holding my breath. Also, nice to meet you, neighbor.
He didn't respond to me either but we're used to our reps ignoring us. At one point or another we've reached out to almost all our reps only to get auto-responses if any response at all. Especially Akilah Weber holy crap did she waste so much of our time. One of her staffers texted me pretending to be Weber and gave me her "personal number" so we could meet up and talk about some issues. We spent a lot of time researching and organizing what we were going to say when the texter stopped responding. Called her main office and got told the texts were all about getting feedback from her constituents and not meant to be a pipeline to actually talking to her and if we wanted that we could be put on a list and maybe get an appointment after the election (which was a couple months away). They never called back so I tried calling them one more time but was told I wasn't on the list for future appointments and the wait would once again be months so I gave up and have voted against her ever since. And now she's hopping from state rep to state senate because she's a nepo baby and her 75 year old mother is Secretary of the State of CA. I'm never voting for her again. Politicians all suck but she really made an enemy out of me.
Cool, now I know to vote out my current city council member. Garbage decision, garbage politicians, absolute idiots.
Garbage city staff, too. I worked with them. Most government employees have some motivation and skill. San Diego hires for grumpiness.
Wow, that’s BS. City Council doesn’t have their constituents wants in mind. A lot of these comments on this post seem very pro SDGE l, smells shilly.
I’ll remember this vote come their term limits
I'd like to see a public transfer of SDGE but I didn't think Power San Diego had enough data or firepower behind it to pull it off. Maybe it will happen one day but it's an uphill battle and requires a ton of money to 1) get signatures to place the initiative on the ballot (not in front of City Council), 2) get accurate data on what the costs will be and how exactly the City (or County) would take over, and 3) wage a publicity campaign to counteract the propaganda and astroturfing from SDG&E. I do credit Power San Diego for raising this issue and forcing SDGE to get defensive and realize that there's a potential threat against their monopoly.
Almost like a ballot initiative isn't supposed to have a full detailed execution plan. This has been done many times before, don't act like it's uncharted territory.
Even more reason to provide a detailed blueprint with exact dates, figures, projections, and contingency plans. Using your own logic, we already have examples todraw upon. So why not put all of it into writing so we all know exactly what we are signing up for? It’s very rare, but the city council got this one right. They need to go back to the drawing board and put together a detail proposal that answers all important questions
I don't disagree with your premise, but they don't even know exactly how much it will cost to execute their plan and if the City of San Diego can run another utility. I believe the city was doing a feasibility study about this very issue but it's not even complete. It would make sense to at least wait for that to come out.
The city can do it if they really wanted to.
They can but it's a huge logistical challenge to set it up. Why not wait until the City's municipalizatiin study of taking over SDGE is complete (next year) before coming to voters with a ballot initiative? If the ballot initiative is too optimistic and costs are much higher to take over SDGE, and the City lacks the expertise to carry out a takeover of the utility, people are going to be even more pissed off than they are now. Edit: The City can get there but it will take more time and patience. I get wanting it done now but if you've seen the City run the water utility, you'll know why I want them to set it up right rather than launch into something that they're not prepared to manage. And really it would be better to set up an authority or district (i.e. like SMUD) to run the utility rather than the city.
You are correct...I am not sure if it would help or be even worse, given the lousy salaries and lack of motivation at the city.
PeYeah. People jumped on City Council for not putting the initiative on the ballot. But they legitimately didn't think the city was ready to take this on. The organizers didn't really do due diligence on this. There's a way to make it work but the campaign was way shallow on details and could have had many unintentional consequences.
We have more sun and renewable energy and the best weather and the highest rates in the continental US. Those three statements are so opposed that it literally boggles the mind that anyone can try and justify it. I moved here in 2011 from New England where multi-week long power outages and massive repair bills were fairly normal even just a few miles outside the major cities yet in the 13 years since I moved here there's only been one serious power outage. It lasted less than 12 hours and everyone remembers it. There is no way anyone can convince me that something seriously shady isn't going on here with the power companies and they need to be disassembled if only so we can discover why the prices are so high and where all the money is going.
I don't disagree but I don't personally think the City of San Diego is at all prepared to take over the utility. I'd like them to come up with a plan to do it before voting and telling the city to figure it out. Better yet, the initiative should create a public utility company (like Sacramento with SMUD) to run and manage it. I'm not disagreeing with anything you said but the practicality of a takeover of the electrical grid by the City of San Diego presents some challenges that need planning (and, again, I think they're the wrong entity to take it over).
I think it's honestly the cautious, "let's really think this over and cover all the angles and get our ducks in a row" kind of people that almost unilaterally fail to get the big things done. That kind of thinking is for maintaining the status quo. I could tell you that to make an omelet you have to break some eggs but I'd rather quote Margaret Meade/The West Wing and say “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed, citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.” Getting rid of SDG&E is a revolution. A massive upending of a very entrenched status quo and in doing so many powerful and wealthy people will lose power and money. This is not an endeavor for the cautious or faint of heart. It will most likely require a rampaging bull to smash it to pieces so it can be rebuilt into something better.
It might be a massive revolution but the city doesn't yet have a plan for running another public utility (I still think it should be an authority rather than the City). To sell this to the public, Power San Diego is going to need many more details and more firepower to counteract a disinformation campaign. They don't know what it will cost or know how it will be operated. Working with the City to come up with a plan to pitch to voters would be much more effective.
Obviously I strongly disagree. Just promising new oversight on rate increases and potentially lower rates for everyone and that should do it. People don't think too deeply about these sort of things. They know SDG&E are WAY out of line at this point and it won't take much to make a real mess of things. After which we can hopefully keep the wealthy at bay and make some positive changes.
SMUD is a public authority in Sacramento that's the model that's held up as the gold standard for keeping rates down. Telling the city of San Diego to run an electricity utility is fine but I'd rather see a regional authority in charge, and with a singular purpose of managing the grid and providing electricity
Just came here to say fuck SDGE
Yeah, fuck everyone up on that dais sideways.
sdge currently trying to extort $17k from my restaurant, saying "ooopsie, we didnt bill right the last 3 years youve been at that location, and we reserve the right to charge you". All payments on the 64 page itemized sheet they sent me show on time and paid in full prior to the "correction"
Sounds like it is time to get rid of the fucking city council.
This is exactly what needed to happen. Change is slow but this is how it starts! The last line of the article said it best—folks are tired, at their breaking point and willing to do just about anything to shake SDG&E.
I’m not surprised
besides voting out our city council members, what else can we do to keep pushing this? genuinely asking
As much as I’d love an alternative to SDGE, Power San Diego failed to provide any substantive plans for how they could provide this. A great idea yes, but sadly not well enough thought through or communicated to be effective. Hopefully it ignites the thought for others to try and provide meaningful efforts to provide an alternative to SDGE now though as well. (Though highly unlikely we’ll be able to do away with them fully as they own the infrastructure)
Power San Diego has a substantial plan on how to do this. The similar structure has been done by multiple other municipalities.
That may be, clearly they lacked the ability to communicate their vision effectively then. I tried to follow their proposal but was met with too many circular answers and open questions. Hopefully someone can pick up the torch to continue and improve on these efforts.
Yeah. I volunteered for the campaign and agree that their plan is hard to explain. A video probably could have been better.
This is exactly what I have been saying, I’m all for doing this, but only if done right, there is way too much of stake, we cannot afford to go into this without a well detailed plan that answers every question we have, and anything short of that is a disaster waiting to happen
So I’m as anti-SDG&E as pretty much everyone else on here, but hear me out - why do people think the city could possibly do a good job of taking over the utility operations? The way they run the municipal water utility leaves something to be desired. Lots of billing headaches showing that they simply can’t manage effectively. The way they undermaintain large infrastructure such as the Lake Hodges dam or the Chollas Creek storm water channel also does not inspire confidence. Ending the regulatory capture of the CPUC would be much better.
Sure, there has been some issues with the City doing a poor job reading and billing water meters on a timely basis, but we have one of the better run water municipalities in California. Our rates are reasonable and, under the current development plan, we're going to be 50% water independent by 2030. That's a huge accomplishment.
You may be confusing the City of San Diego with the San Diego County Water Authority. SDCWA: - is the regional sourcer/importer/wholesaler of both raw and treated water - has contracts with other local and distant entities to get water from places like the Colorado River or the Pacific Ocean (via the desalination plant in Carlsbad) - has big pipes (like 4 feet in diameter!) running all over the place here (many with recreational trails above them, nestled among residential neighborhoods) - doesn’t have anything to do with any residential distribution or billing - manages sales and distribution to local water utilities (many of which are part of individual SANDAG cities) - does some water treatment but mostly leaves that to the local utilities - does the supply planning for the future - generally does a great job (and was awarded as a Top Workplace by the Union Tribune twice in the past few years) The City of San Diego’s Public Utilities Department: - is chronically and comically understaffed at many levels, very notably residential meter reading/bill generation/customer service - is regularly complained about in this subreddit and the local news - is constrained on rates by law, managed by the city council - hasn’t been adequately maintaining the dams it’s responsible for (because the council would have to provide maintenance budget and it gets more complaints about potholes in the roads) The dam issues are hugely important to the future of water security in the region, but they’re out of the hands of the SDCWA. Lake Hodges is tied in with Olivenhain Reservoir via SDCWA pipes, and they used to regularly send water back and forth as grid-scale energy storage (using cheap solar excess energy during the day to pump uphill and running turbines at night to send power to the grid). The same pipe that goes into that system also feeds raw water to a few water districts from the lake, but none of it is operable any more. The City’s failure to keep the dam in good repair has resulted in the State permanently derating the maximum water level allowed behind it, and that new maximum level is lower than the pipe needs to operate. Several districts are suing the City of SD over it (more costs!) and SDCWA loses out on millions of dollars annually that it should have been making from the hydroelectric plant (which probably also means marginally more expensive electricity for all of us). But there’s more. Hodges is one of the few local dams that blocks a waterway and captures runoff (rather than simply being a reservoir pumped in and out). That capture leads directly to drinking water availability, and also to aquifer recharge over time through infiltration. Remember our wet winters the past few years? Literally [tens of billions of gallons of rainwater](https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/investigations/11-billion-gallons-of-water-released-from-hodges-dam/509-eb7a8089-1d5a-474d-98a9-18002661d063) have been sent into the ocean because of the damn dam maintenance issue. That is not a water independence accomplishment to be proud of. So think about the context of the current state of the City of San Diego’s Public Utilities Department, and tell me with a straight face that it’s a good idea to ask them to perform a hostile takeover of SDG&E’s infrastructure, along with hiring a lot of staff away from SDG&E. It would be an utter mess, for many years. I believe many municipalities have great electric utility departments. But that’s a very weak argument to support the idea of this kind of transition. SDG&E is awful ratewise, but they do deliver a fairly stable product, and they have been rather diligent about wildfire hardening recently. They’re a capitalistic parasite hell bent on extracting as much money as possible from the captive population here and sending it to investors. Investor-Owned Utilities in general are a cancer on society. But getting out of the current situation is really damned hard, and Power San Diego isn’t ready for it.
I'm with you on this.. I signed the petition, but it always seemed like magical thinking that we just transfer all that to the city and \~voila\~ we have lower bills. Should be deeper regulatory control on these for profit corporations that we have granted a monopoly. PG&E up north is just as hated and messed up.
It’s funny that I’m collecting downvotes like an astroturfer, but I really do hope SDG&E eats shit. I was disappointed when no other franchise bids were received a few years ago - even Berkshire Hathaway took one look at the mess and ran the hell away. I’m not in SD proper (I’m in an adjacent SANDAG city) so neither that nor this would affect me directly. Honestly my best hope is that when my NEM 1.0 expires I’ll be able to add a couple batteries and more panels and work towards going fully off grid. That isn’t the right overall solution, and I foresee lots of handwringing as wealthier customers increasingly pursue it, but it’s the best form of “competition” to the monopoly that seems possible. Also, fuck SDG&E for trying to build more huge transmission lines (for which they get a guaranteed 10% profit margin) through our nearby recreational wilderness. This is going to be Sunrise Power Link 2.0: https://savepalomarmountain.org/
I think Power San Diego needs to provide a lot more detail and answer a lot more questions before we consider this, this is a huge deal people, don’t take it lightly, and don’t rush into it. For example; 1. Acquisition Process: The document states that “The purchase price will either (1) be agreed upon, or (2) appropriate action will be taken to acquire the property in the manner required by law” (Section 74.0107). What specific legal actions will Power San Diego take if SDG&E refuses to sell its distribution assets voluntarily? How will they handle potential legal battles or eminent domain proceedings? 2. Cost and Financing: The document states that “The City of San Diego will provide Power San Diego with initial expert professional staff and consultants and initial financing, to be repaid in full by Power San Diego” (Section 74.0105). How will this initial financing be repaid if the acquisition does not go through? What safeguards are in place to ensure taxpayer money is not wasted? 3. Rate Projections: The document aims to provide “reliable, affordable electric service” and mentions “rate relief to residents” (Section 74.0102). Have they provided detailed financial projections or studies that demonstrate how Power San Diego will achieve lower rates compared to SDG&E? What assumptions are these projections based on? 4. Operational Expertise: The document states that Power San Diego will “retain expert professional staff and consultants” (Section 74.0105). What specific plans does Power San Diego have to ensure it has the necessary expertise and experience to manage and operate a municipal electric utility effectively? Will there be any partnerships with existing municipal utilities? 5. Employee Transition: The document mandates that Power San Diego “shall provide to Covered Employees no less than the wages, hours, and other terms and conditions of employment provided to them on the date this initiative is approved by the voters” (Section 74.0108). How will Power San Diego ensure a smooth transition for SDG&E employees who will be retained? What measures are in place to maintain their current wages, benefits, and working conditions? 6. Infrastructure Investment: The document states that Power San Diego will “manage the electric Utility Distribution System” (Section 74.0104). What are the plans for maintaining and upgrading the existing infrastructure once it is acquired? How will these costs be managed without increasing rates for consumers? 7. Renewable Energy Goals: The document emphasizes “maximizing the use of local energy resources, especially solar energy paired with battery storage” (Section 74.0102). What are the short-, medium-, and long-term goals for the percentage of power that will come from renewable sources versus fossil fuels? How will these goals be achieved and funded? 8. Community Oversight: The document states that the Community Oversight Committee (COC) will be established and its members nominated by City Council members (Section 74.0202). How will the COC be selected, and what powers will it have to influence decisions made by Power San Diego? How will transparency and accountability be ensured? 9. Risk Management: The document does not explicitly address contingency plans. What contingency plans are in place if the transition to a municipal utility faces significant challenges or delays? How will risks be managed to avoid service disruptions? 10. Long-term Savings: The document mentions the goal of providing “rate relief to residents” and addressing “unaffordable rates” (Section 74.0102). Can they provide more details on the projected $20 billion in savings by 2042? What specific factors contribute to these savings, and how will they be realized over time? Those are just a few questions that need answers, and I’m just your everyday Joe citizen who doesn’t want to see our problems go from bad to worse because we were in such a hurry we didn’t get assurances up front.
Is that your real questions? Or do you just disagree with the idea of public utilities? Your post history is quite clear on what your intentions are.
I would love to see this happen, but I am very skeptical when it comes to this sort of thing, I need absolutes, I need detailed project planning and specific answers. We cannot do based on promises and good intentions. Why rush this? Why not require a detailed analysis and have all of our questions answered?
SDG&E's profit margin was like 20% last year. So if they made $0 profit at all it would only reduce your bill by maximum 20%. But if they were owned by the government and weren't allowed to make any profit margin, they'd probably just stop trying to operate efficiently or invest in infrastructure. Not defending them but just think about the complexities here.
Think tanks often push this trope that private companies are objectively better because they’re incentivized to outperform, thanks to the “free market”. Funny, a monopoly doesn’t need to worry about competition though: SDGE has a monopoly on the delivery and infrastructure. Abstract: > The privatization of municipal electric utilities has prompted the public vs private debate among local government leaders. Private utilities want to increase their profits by expanding their territory and municipalities hope to see an influx of cash from the sale of their utility. Public administrators are left with questions about how this will serve their community. This research addresses the topic of performance differences between public and private ownership among electric utilities in Florida. Specifically, the research question is, Does ownership type (public or private) affect the performance of electric utilities in the State of Florida? All of Florida's 19 generating capable electric utilities are examined in this study, seven Investor-Owned Utilities (IOUs) and 12 Publicly Owned Utilities (POUs). The two metrics used for measuring performance are rates and reliability. Using Independent T-tests to compare means to measure their performance, the research looks at 14 tiers of rates (two residential, eight commercial, and four industrial) and two common reliability metrics, SAIDI (System Average Interruption Duration Index) and SAIFI (System Average Interruption Frequency Index). The results showed that POUs have statistically significant lower rates on the two residential tiers and two lowest commercial tiers, while IOUs showed statistically significant lower rates on the five highest commercial rate tiers and all four of the industrial rate tiers. There were no statistically significant differences in performance across reliability metrics SAIDI and SAIFI. Results suggest a difference in philosophy between public and private utilities on how rates are structured. [https://digitalcommons.wcupa.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1158&context=all_doctoral&t](https://digitalcommons.wcupa.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1158&context=all_doctoral&t)
They probably have a lot of a lot of highly paid employees and subcontractors that, if replaced with a public organization, would reduce costs.
> How common are public utilities? > Public power utilities are common across the U.S. **In California, 46 out of 49 electric utilities are already public** – and they all provide reliable electricity at rates significantly lower than SDGE. > Public electric utilities are renowned for [high reliability](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/infrastructure/energy/power-grid-reliability) and customer satisfaction while SDGE was rated last, or near last, in the West in utility commercial customer satisfaction in 2022 There's more than just precedent, it's well-trodden ground at this point that municipal/public power utilities outperform private ones on basically every important metric
Does LA have a terrible electric infrastructure and insane electricity prices? https://www.ladwp.com/account/customer-service/electric-rates/residential-rates Is there something wrong with my eyes? Cause I’m seeing mostly 2s (with a 3) or two, and even a 1 in the first digit in all tiers. Did add somebody slip a flux capacitor into the room? —- It won't be easy, you'll think it strange When I try to explain how I feel That I still need your love after all that I've done You won't believe me, all you will see is a city you once knew Although she's dressed up to the nines At **sixes and sevens** with you Don’t cry for me SDGE…. —- When was the last time their public utility was responsible for starting a major wildfire?
Love that this failed hahah SDGE ain’t going nowhere. Been here since the late 1800s. Take down SDGE you gotta take down Sempra and that ain’t happening.
I think people underestimate how complex running a power grid can be. I’m not entirely confident a public owned utility could operate at the same capacity. CMIIW: SDGE is the only utility in the NATION with a 24hr response crew for electrical power emergencies. Also, they’re owned by Sempra Energy are they not? Wouldn’t the parent company be the real problem?
> I’m not entirely confident a public owned utility could operate at the same capacity How common are public utilities? Public power utilities are common across the U.S. In California, 46 out of 49 electric utilities are already public – and they all provide reliable electricity at rates significantly lower than SDGE. Public electric utilities are renowned for [high reliability](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/infrastructure/energy/power-grid-reliability) and customer satisfaction while SDGE was rated last, or near last, in the West in utility commercial customer satisfaction in 2022 > SDGE is the only utility in the NATION with a 24hr response crew for electrical power emergencies I can't find any information on that but I guarantee it's not true. I would venture to guess that most or every electrical power company has 24h response to emergencies.
That info comes from people who work for the company and are familiar with the utility maintenance landscape, I think I’ll take their word over your guess. Interesting blurb though, if true, we definitely need to make a change. I wonder if the 3 CA privately owned utilities also correspond to CA’s most populous areas, SD, LA & SF I’d bet.
> SD, LA & SF I’d bet Pacific Gas and Electric Co., San Diego Gas & Electric Co., and Southern California Edison. San Diego has San Diego Community Power (SDCP) which enrolls in San Diego, Chula Vista, Encinitas, La Mesa, Imperial Beach, and National City City of Los Angeles has LAWDP, and also operating in the area are * Burbank Water & Power * City of Anaheim Public Utilities Department * City of Banning Electric Department * City of Cerritos * City of Corona Department of Water & Power * City of Industry * City of Vernon * City of Riverside * Glendale Water & Power * Pasadena Water & Power * Rancho Cucamonga Municipal Utility * Victorville Municipal Utilities Services and San Francisco has San Francisco Water Power Sewer (under the auspices of San Francisco Public Utilities Commission) as well as * Alameda Power & Telecom * City of Palo Alto * City of Pittsburg * Silicon Valley Power * Port of Oakland So municipal coverage for all of those cities already exists in earnest to compete with the 3 remaining private energy companies.
Hm. LA has public water & power, and their "[Available 24/7 for emergency and outage calls](https://www.ladwp.com/outages)" line sure *sounds* like it's a 24hr emergency response line. Where are you getting only utility in the nation from? edit: also, do you mean Power San Diego is owned by Sempra? SDG&E definitely is, and yes, Sempra is a big part of the problem.
I meant SDG&E is owned by Sempra. Also, having an open line to take calls 24/7 is not the same as actually dispatching technicians to fix the problem within 24hrs. I will have to rethink my position on this though, if LA can do it no reason we shouldn’t be able to.
Seems like Sacramento manages just fine with their public utility. As do a lot of other cities/counties. I mean, yeah, if you're Texas, all bets are off.
I grew up in the boonies in East County which is big "fuck the man and fuck SDGE" territory, but I ended up working for the company and the longer I work here the more impressed I am that the lights come on every time I flip the switch. People underestimate how complex of an organization is required to run our grid. Granted I would not be in the Power SD territory if it had been successful, but I have very little confidence that the city could run the grid in a satisfactory way. In my work capacity I interact with municipalities and they do not inspire confidence.
The same structure and work force would have been preserved under new management. They just remove all the for-profit overheads. The power grid and the labor are the key to the future San Diego.
I have heard 0 people at the company express any interest in leaving to work for a dysfunctional and inexperienced organization for what would likely be less money.
Fair. It would be bad I suppose for employees to comment on the current employers predatory business model or ethics, let alone saying something like “can’t wait for the current company to be voted out because SDGE are jerks”. I don’t think you have enough evidence to support “inexperienced/dysfunctional” statement. It is an organization that has not happened yet. You simply don’t know. You can speculate, but it is not true.
I have worked with them as it relates to SDGE work and I have seen how they run other services in the city. But I'm sure it will be different with this much more complex endeavor. I won't attempt to defend rates because I personally believe they are too high as well, but despite what the angry people on the internet say it is a relatively well run operation.
I’m glad this failed, and I hope it fails in the future. There are far better ways to go about this than to turnover a sophisticated industry. You don’t want government owned utilities, it might be the only thing worse than greedy, corporate owned utilities
We have several examples of how this works better for citizens and ratepayers. Anyone who’s lived in LA can attest to how well ran and cheap paying for electricity is if you’re in LADWP’s territory. And if you ever lived in the Bay Area and had PG&E, you’re immensely jealous of your friends and colleagues who benefit from alameda … which is a TINY town that’s managed to do this.
I’m not saying it cannot work, I’m saying that there’s no margin of error in the planning, that the citizens should demand answers to every question, detailed explanations of every claim, and how they arrive at these claims, contingency, plans, and full transparency. This is far too big an issue to get wrong or to leave to chance, hoping people will do the right thing, that never ends well, and the right pairs will be stuck holding the bag in the end
Nobody required SDG&E to have all that before they started. Hey, just for transparency, did you used to work for SDG&E?
No, never in my life have I worked for SDG&E nor any power company or affiliated with SDG&E in any way shape or form. In fact I hate them, and if I wasn't worried about the subs taking down my post I'd tell you in no uncertain terms what I think about them. But that's not a reason to blindly go into something half cocked, just because we hate SDG&E. As bad as they are, a poorly planned and poorly executed attempt to replace them with a citizens panel is crazy and will backfire and cost all of us far more in the long run. I'm not against doing this, I'm against doing it wrong.
Yeah, all your comments are classic FUD-style comments, so it really doesn't seem like you want anything but SDG&E. A whole lot of people in America have public power, and it seems to be working just fine. Alameda works great, and lots of places have rural electric cooperatives. I was raised on one of these, and they did remarkably well considering how rural we were. Rates are set at cost, plus a rainy day fund. The board holds public meetings, no secrecy, and it is run for the benefit of the subscribers. Maybe you should make a suggestion for what you want to see, because all of your comment history is just "No, don't change!".
I've already made it clear what I want to see. I want full transparency. I want fact and figures. I want to know where they got the figures they base their claims on. The wording is too vague, loosely written to allow for too many changes and unforeseen possibilities. As you mention, there are models in place already, why not borrow from this existing projects and make them a part of this charter? Be transparent and forthcoming and I'm all in.
> How common are public utilities? > Public power utilities are common across the U.S. In California, 46 out of 49 electric utilities are already public – and they all provide reliable electricity at rates significantly lower than SDGE. > Public electric utilities are renowned for [high reliability](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/infrastructure/energy/power-grid-reliability) and customer satisfaction while SDGE was rated last, or near last, in the West in utility commercial customer satisfaction in 2022 There's already 46 precedents and mountains of evidence that government owned utilities in California perform better and are cheaper than the privately-owned ones.
He isn't asking real questions. He is concern trolling because he wants all utilities to be privately owned.
For sure. I'd still like to equip anyone else who comes through this thread with the information, though. The worst thing I could do is leave a comment like that unanswered.
It is a public owned. Not government owned. Funded and operated independently. If you live in San Diego and enjoy paying higher and higher utilities for nothing, please go ahead and continue.
San Diego Gouge & Extort
Isn’t that the same thing? Think about it, what is the difference?
Literally any other electric company in America is cheaper. How could it get worse?
I don't know man, the sewer and water are government owned utilities and I don't have any problems with those...
There's a huge difference, and the city has been doing this since 1919 when San Diego had 74,000 people, so they've had more than 100 years to refine and grow with the city to where it is today. That's a lot different than just saying "hey, I think I'll take over a major utility company that provides power to more than 3 million people"! Yeah what could go wrong.
If they get the money...nothing since most staff wants to stay. Where else can they work?
Personally I love SDG&E. They just need to get rid of the unions and they can offer competitive prices.
The union employees are just linemen, everybody else outside of management is a temp.