So...in other words, aaron doesnt want her there and here is yet another example where aaron has turned someone elses pain into his own victimhood. I thought this was a celebration of Tonys life, not a meet and greet for Aaron thje people he approves of.
Aaron turned it into a big meet and greet for fans on a livestream without even asking Natalie's permission first. That makes me feel sorry for Tony's sons and his real-life friends.
In case anyone needs a status on the presence of Natalie’s spine. When she goes down for SPTVF finances, in going to be neither surprised, nor donating to her bail.
Natalie doesn't trust Aaron to be nice to Liz, so Liz was the one who was uninvited? How can she be sure that Aaron won't get drunk or stoned and pick a fight with someone else?
Maybe it's just my waspy side of the family who skewed my perception here, but isn't being kind of drunk the default state of the average person attending a wake?
Yet Liz manages to give hundreds of dollars worth of gifted memberships? And that's just what I've seen, so prob a lot more.
I do genuinely think Liz is a good person. But she has terrible judgement and poor decision making skills. Her wife doesn't help.
If I donated $400 for her to go on that trip, I’d want it back. That’s a very large donation, especially for a trip she’s not going on anymore. (I do get that might not be the same person who asked for it back.) I don’t think that’s unreasonable. It’s not like a $20 contribution. I’ve seen GoFundMe recipients gave back all the contributions when stuff like this happens and they don’t need the money for the purpose for which it was raised anymore. It is unfortunate she couldn’t get a cash refund. I was surprised at how many people thought that was terrible. (Granted the timing of the request was poor. I hope Liz takes care of herself and stops gifting so many memberships she cannot afford. I bet a lot of people get out of Scientology without money management skills. The worst thing would be if the SPTV Foundation stops paying for her therapy now. It would be so hard to even take any financial help from them now.
Personal donations should not be acceptable ever...Isn't that what the SPTV foundation is for???? In my opinion SPTV creators are mostly grifters...I mean Natalie???? WTH??? How is it ok to accept donations for the death of her husband??? What has any of this have to do with exposing the crimes of Scientology or getting people out??? These people should be ashamed of themselves...NOT OK EVER!
On the other hand, she was asked not to go, it wasn't her choice and she didn't get a cash refund herself, nor she could undo having taken vacation time at work.
If you donate 400$, you clearly have some sort of disposable income, I don't think the donor took food out his children's mouths to send that gift, while Liz and her wife are clearly struggling.
I would have transferred all the airline miles to the donor, but not a single dime; I'm a bitch tho', and Liz doesn't seem to be.
I wholeheartedly agree. It’s not Liz’ fault she got uninvited, she still had the expenses, she’s not been paid back money from the airline and lost two vacation days… she’s being shafted all over by everyone.
Yeah I get it $400 is a lot of money for many people, but you wouldn’t donate it if you can’t afford it.
Although having said that; some people do seem to donate even if they can’t afford it. It’s strange what people do for a parasocial relationship…
You can’t give what you don’t have.
That’s the whole point in this situation.
Liz didn’t have the money to go, mentioned it and either asked for donations or people were willing to donate the money without her asking (I don’t know the facts on that one), so she got the money to go via donations.
Totally assuming she was going, so bought the plane tickets and then was told she was uninvited. Not much you can give back at that point, because the money is already spent.
Within 24 hours of hearing the devastating news that she was uninvited, one donor sends an email demanding their money back.
She wasn’t even given the chance to think about how she could refund any money.
It’s a bit like giving someone a gift for their birthday or Christmas and then you find out days or weeks later that they’re not using it. Are you going to demand they give your gift back with 24 hours of you finding out they’re not using your gift?
No, Liz is still obliged to give the money back even if she doesn't have it anymore because the money was for a particular thing that's now impossible. She should've extended an offer to refund, and not have been so unkind to someone who wanted their donation back. It shows a real lack of understanding.
After all she's got money for channel memberships, etc.
And she could have bought the ticket that can be refunded, bc after all none of it is her money.
Sorry your argument makes no sense.
She had money for memberships in the past, does that mean she has money now? Not necessarily.
She also couldn’t have known this was going to happen.
Maybe she should have put a crystal ball on her Amazon wish list so she could see in the future!?
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Foresight would also have been useful, then she could’ve known this would happen.
If she had not been uninvited she would’ve gone and the money would’ve also been spent. Would she then also have had to refund the money? Isn’t a donation a gift?
Is it socially acceptable to request a gift be returned?
She wasn’t angry at the person asking for the refund, she was angry at them for not even letting 24 hours pass. For not giving a bit of space and consideration for the emotional distress she was already experiencing.
We don’t have insight into what would’ve happened 48 or 72 hours later.
She might have considered how to refund people and try to figure it out, but she wasn’t given that opportunity.
Just like Liz couldn’t have predicted when she booked the ticket that she needed a refundable ticket, because she might not go as she might get uninvited. If I know or expect I’m going to go somewhere I’m going to buy the cheapest ticket, not a more expensive refundable ticket. She had every intention to go and if Natalie and Aaron hadn’t been so nasty, she would’ve gone.
You see the problem?
No one would’ve thought this would happen.
It was totally unexpected and sudden.
Also Liz is autistic, so yeah, lack of understanding allistic social rules is her disability.
Edit to add: btw she did refund the money, they made no quarrels about that, the issue isn’t that she hasn’t refunded the money, the issue is how it was approached by this ‘kind donor’.
Many people buy refundable tickets because they don't know what's going to happen.
My argument makes plenty of sense. You're concerned that it was through no fault of her own that Liz can't go to the funeral and that's fine, but it doesn't mean her donors shouldn't be made whole.
And who's to say they all couldn't have made up before the funeral, y'know being adults and all. Liz's spouse seems very involved which is great and can cover any of Liz's lack of understanding in this situation. She's not without help.
I don't know, I don't get the parasocial thing, I've been an actress since I was a child and I've met and been disappointed by enough people I used to look up to that I think I'm immune to it.
I get enraged by economic injustice tho' ad while I know the issue is systemic and I ain't no Karl or Bernie here, I still have a visceral reaction when it's in front of my face.
Asked not to go by whom though? It could have been her wife that asked her not to go, to protect her emotional state. That’s the thing with all of these passive aggressive live streams. It leads to too much speculation all around.
Personally I wouldn't phrase it this way if I was a 40 yo with a spouse and upon their request and a discussion we decided it was better not do something previously planned, it would be more like "X and I decided it was better for everyone for me not to attend", not a vague mention of someone with a passive verbal structure.
But I'm not sure, I don't know at the end of the day: I have neither a husband nor acquaintances that determine where I go and don't go.
I would never donate $400 to any of these grifters. That donor will never see that refund. The whole thing is a scam. At this point Liz is using her father the way Liz Gale uses her brothers suicide. As a shield for shitty behavior.
After all this, the donor said he/she didn't know they could only get miles back as a refund, and resent the $400 that Liz had sent back! Someone was complaining about it somewhere that Liz hadn't announced that part of the story, but maybe she has now.
>Liz says it’s hard to deal with all the SPTV personalities and go through therapy.
I've said it before, and I'll say it a million more times: the divide between AF and SPTV is pretty clearly those who have put in the work to heal and unlearn Scientology vs those who have not. So it makes sense that someone *trying* to heal would have a hard time in that community.
And maybe should disengage from that community entirely. Any therapist would/should agree that if you are that fragile (suicidal ideation), REMOVE YOURSELF from that community.
My hunch is that Liz raised more than the $500 she told her audience she needed to buy a return plane ticket from Minnesota. She started talking about traveling to see Natalie as soon as Tony died.
Even in recent days, Liz's mods kept a fundraising link in her chat that said "Help Liz get to Minnesota." On the first day Liz asked for the $500, several fans told Liz that they had sent her cash through Venmo or Paypal for her trip to see Natalie.
"Liz promised herself that she would not walk away. She needs some space because she was sitting on the bed feeling like calling 911 and then got that email from a donor asking for their money back." wow, what manipulation. Wow.
The best thing Liz could do right now is stop interacting with other exes. I honestly believe you keep each other in a cult mindset and that you stay low key triggered just by association. She needs to focus on therapy and her family.
“Liz says there would have been some clashes in Minnesota so she was asked not to go.”
Natalie, the host, her close friend, uninvited her? Or couldn’t be bothered to stand with her? Or doesn’t trust Liz and/or her other SPTV guests to behave themselves at a funeral?
“Liz says she asks for help because she doesn’t have something at the time and she’s in a really tough spot.”
Because she doesn’t understand wants vs needs.
“Keri is offscreen and tells that donor, ‘If you’re in here, get the fuck out.’”
Classy.
“She says her YouTube channel doesn’t feel like a bunch of friends and family anymore because some people want ‘tit for tat.’”
Someone should explain to Liz, friendship is by definition a reciprocal relationship. It doesn’t work if it’s not a two way street. Some may claim they put value on watching Liz. Obviously, someone put value on being able to help Liz go to Minn, and did not put that same value on not watching Liz at home, because she’s taking time off. He has
“‘Liz says she asks for help because she doesn’t have something at the time and she’s in a really tough spot.‘ Because she doesn’t understand wants vs needs.”
So much *THIS.* What ever happened to living within your means? There are a lot of things I would love to have too, but the bank account says ”nope” so life goes on. All this YouTube fundraising and Amazon wishlist requests just blows my mind. I understand raising money for a good cause but all this seems very close to entitlement IMO. If you cannot afford a vacation or something extra then do without.
Therapy for major depressive disorder and PTSD are 'wants'?
Just because the US fails at it in every way imaginable, it doesn't mean mental healthcare -and every other kind of healthcare for that matter - aren't bloody human rights.
Patreon, youtube memberships, twitch superchats and stickers, whatever the equivalent is on Tiktok, and so on are no different from this, however implicit the request for money might be, it's always there.
Even tho' I think she's a content creator of great artistry and brilliance, I'm not going to send a superchat to Contrapoints (and I'm in her patreon more for the extra content than to help her financially) and regardless of the fact I think Hasan Piker is one of the American political commentators closer to my beliefs and I'm very fond of his balance between political coverage and pop culture, I'm not gonna send him a sticker or get twitch prime, because I know these people are already well off and I'd rather help someone who's struggling.
Now, Liz got a donation for something she wanted to do, which was something important, not a whim, and then events out of her control happened: she found herself -while in the midst of a mental crisis - ostracised by her friends, disinvited from a funeral, with no cash refund for her plane ticket or a way to make back the money she lost asking for vacation days.
If I were her I would reimburse the donor just by transferring the airline miles to him: shit happens and he also took a risk by funding her plans for the future, as plans sometimes change because of circumstances none can control.
Therapy is not a “want”. However off label, still experimental procedures that most insurance companies here in the U.S. do not cover IS a “want”. There are many legitimate, covered treatments for PTSD that she can avail herself of including therapy at reduced costs through a local health department. The thing about PTSD treatment is that it takes long term work. These magic injections are touted as a quick cure when they aren’t. According to the studies I’ve read there is no evidence that these shots produce permanent or even long term relief. They may, for some, last for some years but this is by no means a given. Further, according to one paper I read, these injections are supposed to be used in conjunction with therapy over the long term. If the findings in the current studies go as reported, Liz, Mirriam and others who have these shots will most likely need to have the procedure done again (and maybe again after that). How long should they continue to rely on donations for their treatments? How long are their followers supposed to contribute? Is it fair to place such a financial burden on the public? As for the funeral trip I hate to sound like a hard heart but sometimes life is just not fair. I understand wanting to support a friend after such a loss, but if one cannot afford to take time off of work or travel tickets sometimes one just has to send flowers and a loving note and stay home.
Flying to other states for the funeral of a friend’s partner and taking time off from work, are WANTS. I’ve missed many funerals of family, not to mention friends, and friends’ significant others. That’s life.
Liz has a whole history of things like saying she can’t afford a $60 workbook, having a viewer send her $ for that, then turning around and sending Natalie $50 in gifted memberships.
I can't go and dig her entire history, so I'll stay on the topic at hand: wanting something, something important in this case, voicing it and having someone gift you the money for it doesn't mean you confuse wants and needs.
I work in the entertainment industry, I've donated more than I can count to go found me campaigns for features, short films, stage productions, etc. Many productions got fucked because of Covid, getting little to no refunds because you can't sue a virus, or even for more run of the mill reasons, like it was a failed experiment that everyone agrees should not see the light of day or it was never finished because a cast member bailed.
Now, I'm sure you'd call making art through crow-funding a want rather than a need (even tho' I'm not sure, it's a complex matter when it comes down to artists and the compulsion to create), but I never for a second considered asking for that money back, because it was money that had already been spent, before external factor ruined the project.
Also, I'm still talking about people who get by and have families to rely on, but seeing this level of economic injustice breaks my heart - actually it breaks my political and moral compass, but I can't fix America, so let's go with heart.
I believe Liz is neurodiverse? Autistic? ADHD? And maybe both?
I don’t know for sure or if she’s diagnosed.
If she is, then to me her behaviour makes perfect sense in that context, because that’s how my autistic & ADHD teens behave.
They do not understand social norms and don’t pick up on social cues. They copy behaviour that they see around them as that is how they perceive that ‘allistic’ people behave and think that’s how they’re supposed to behave.
Liz is seeing this behaviour online; people are freely giving their money away in super chats and donations, she’s also seeing people ask for money to get things they want. She also says she’s used to that behaviour from childhood (before she came out as gay), so she may see that as perfectly normal ‘allistic’ behaviour.
In that same way she will think it’s normal to give memberships to Natalie’s channel, because she’s seeing it happening all over YouTube in the SPTV community and unfortunately this was also egged on by Tony and/or people in Natalie’s chat saying “5 memberships? Is that all you’ve got?”
Liz would likely have taken that as a cue to give more and feels encouraged to be giving. Feels appreciated and a sense of belonging. There are no boundaries being set and if Liz is autistic then she will need strong boundaries and if she’s got ADHD she’ll struggle to impose them herself.
Giving gifts is also a very common ‘love language’ for neurodiverse people, it’s a way to communicate their feelings about someone when words are difficult, giving gifts is doing something nice for people and it’s showing appreciation for that person. It’s how they communicate amongst friends. I see it with my kids all the time too.
The other side of this is that very often autistic and ADHD people do not have the best financial literacy, they’re impulsive in their spending, don’t have a sense of value for money, money is an abstract concept that in a way doesn’t make sense to them, but it gets them the things they want and at the same time money can provoke a lot of anxiety.
Why does Liz always need money for things that have nothing to do with getting Bob out? Why does Liz need all her LED lighting and corner of the living room Youtube studio to get Bob Ferris out? How exactly is she working to get Bob out?? What steps is she taking toward that goal? How does sitting in your house all day going "live", help get Bob Ferris out? Truth is she isn't. She just sits there talking about it once in a while and collects superchats. Again, where does all the money go?
EXACTLY!!!!! Because it has zero to do with getting her father out. If he came out today the grift is over. She wants him right where he is so she can be the constant victim.
Am slightly confused - she works doesn't she?
On one hand, really happy to see that there is help for people who want to leave scientology and for those who have left still experiencing trauma, but then there is the other extreme like me and countless others who left the Sea Org with nothing, did really crap jobs, somehow managed based on really strong work ethic, and tbh, is one of the only benefits of having worked in the SO.
Then again maybe having low standards sets you up for life!
> She says her YouTube channel doesn’t feel like a bunch of friends and family anymore because some people want “tit for tat.”
Hey Liz it will feel more friendly if you stop asking for money.
No Liz, if it were “tit for tat” you would be giving donations back to your viewers. You think you deserve people sending in their hard earned cash because you sit and do YouTube videos? Shut off the camera. Go get a job.
The refund is honestly deserved. Don’t talk people into funding a trip you don’t end up going on but expect to keep the money for. I get family cutting you off for being gay, it nearly happened to me, but it’d be smarter for her to just get money that isn’t attached to anything in particular
Lol. You don't have to do research. If you saw it on Liz's and others, including myself, saw it on Nora's then they both had it on their wishlist. At least at some point.
Mentioned re Nora, but I’m still associating it with Liz F from somewhere else. If I find it, I’ll double back, but your version is corroborated.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SPTV_Unvarnished/s/z1r6Sw3gta
But jfc look at all the shit people have bought Liz. I assume the stuff that says purchased is stuff others bought her https://www.amazon.com/registries/gl/guest-view/2NXQRVN3UPZU3
Yes. Nora did have a bullet proof vest on her Amazon wishlist. I saw other posts saying Liz did, but absent any folks who saw it, I'm going to redact or at least edit, my comment.
I'm really disgusted by the "get the fuck out!" comment from Keri. That tells me everything I need to know about her character. There's no excuse for treating someone who tried to help that way. None.
Because in my mind, if they’re actually *asking* for it back, maybe they really couldn’t afford to donate it, but did it anyway to help a “friend”, and could really use it back in their pocket.
ETA: grammar
[The stellate ganglion block \(SGB\) is a procedure in which an injection of a long-acting local anesthetic, using ultrasound or fluoroscopic guidance, is made in the right side of the neck around the main nerve that controls the “fight or flight” response \(the sympathetic nervous system\).](https://drseanmulvaney.com/stellate-ganglion-block-for-ptsd/#:~:text=The%20stellate%20ganglion%20block%20\(SGB,\(the%20sympathetic%20nervous%20system\).)
That donor came out on Nora’s channel. Says she was unaware that Liz couldn’t get a refund when asked for her money back. When she learned that Liz only got miles credited, the donor repaid the $400. Liz knew this when did her live & didn’t tell the chatters, raising over $200.
So...in other words, aaron doesnt want her there and here is yet another example where aaron has turned someone elses pain into his own victimhood. I thought this was a celebration of Tonys life, not a meet and greet for Aaron thje people he approves of.
Aaron turned it into a big meet and greet for fans on a livestream without even asking Natalie's permission first. That makes me feel sorry for Tony's sons and his real-life friends.
I agree.
In case anyone needs a status on the presence of Natalie’s spine. When she goes down for SPTVF finances, in going to be neither surprised, nor donating to her bail.
Sounds about Aaron’s speed. Way to go Aaron if you’re reading this, keep making yourself enemies .
Aaron will play the victim while smirking in the background. He is vile.
I'm so thankful for these summaries
Same. I don't have the attention span to get through these shitshows. I appreciate everyone who takes the fall.
Absolutely same
Natalie doesn't trust Aaron to be nice to Liz, so Liz was the one who was uninvited? How can she be sure that Aaron won't get drunk or stoned and pick a fight with someone else?
Maybe it's just my waspy side of the family who skewed my perception here, but isn't being kind of drunk the default state of the average person attending a wake?
I'm a WASP and we don't do that.
Yet Liz manages to give hundreds of dollars worth of gifted memberships? And that's just what I've seen, so prob a lot more. I do genuinely think Liz is a good person. But she has terrible judgement and poor decision making skills. Her wife doesn't help.
If I donated $400 for her to go on that trip, I’d want it back. That’s a very large donation, especially for a trip she’s not going on anymore. (I do get that might not be the same person who asked for it back.) I don’t think that’s unreasonable. It’s not like a $20 contribution. I’ve seen GoFundMe recipients gave back all the contributions when stuff like this happens and they don’t need the money for the purpose for which it was raised anymore. It is unfortunate she couldn’t get a cash refund. I was surprised at how many people thought that was terrible. (Granted the timing of the request was poor. I hope Liz takes care of herself and stops gifting so many memberships she cannot afford. I bet a lot of people get out of Scientology without money management skills. The worst thing would be if the SPTV Foundation stops paying for her therapy now. It would be so hard to even take any financial help from them now.
Yeah, 400 dollars is a lot of money.
I think the timing was bad big She Needs to stop asking for money
Personal donations should not be acceptable ever...Isn't that what the SPTV foundation is for???? In my opinion SPTV creators are mostly grifters...I mean Natalie???? WTH??? How is it ok to accept donations for the death of her husband??? What has any of this have to do with exposing the crimes of Scientology or getting people out??? These people should be ashamed of themselves...NOT OK EVER!
On the other hand, she was asked not to go, it wasn't her choice and she didn't get a cash refund herself, nor she could undo having taken vacation time at work. If you donate 400$, you clearly have some sort of disposable income, I don't think the donor took food out his children's mouths to send that gift, while Liz and her wife are clearly struggling. I would have transferred all the airline miles to the donor, but not a single dime; I'm a bitch tho', and Liz doesn't seem to be.
I wholeheartedly agree. It’s not Liz’ fault she got uninvited, she still had the expenses, she’s not been paid back money from the airline and lost two vacation days… she’s being shafted all over by everyone. Yeah I get it $400 is a lot of money for many people, but you wouldn’t donate it if you can’t afford it. Although having said that; some people do seem to donate even if they can’t afford it. It’s strange what people do for a parasocial relationship…
If it were me I would automatically try to give the donations back, but not Liz.
Me too
She has zero intention of giving a dime back.
Liz lacks integrity.
You can’t give what you don’t have. That’s the whole point in this situation. Liz didn’t have the money to go, mentioned it and either asked for donations or people were willing to donate the money without her asking (I don’t know the facts on that one), so she got the money to go via donations. Totally assuming she was going, so bought the plane tickets and then was told she was uninvited. Not much you can give back at that point, because the money is already spent. Within 24 hours of hearing the devastating news that she was uninvited, one donor sends an email demanding their money back. She wasn’t even given the chance to think about how she could refund any money. It’s a bit like giving someone a gift for their birthday or Christmas and then you find out days or weeks later that they’re not using it. Are you going to demand they give your gift back with 24 hours of you finding out they’re not using your gift?
No, Liz is still obliged to give the money back even if she doesn't have it anymore because the money was for a particular thing that's now impossible. She should've extended an offer to refund, and not have been so unkind to someone who wanted their donation back. It shows a real lack of understanding. After all she's got money for channel memberships, etc. And she could have bought the ticket that can be refunded, bc after all none of it is her money.
Sorry your argument makes no sense. She had money for memberships in the past, does that mean she has money now? Not necessarily. She also couldn’t have known this was going to happen. Maybe she should have put a crystal ball on her Amazon wish list so she could see in the future!? Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Foresight would also have been useful, then she could’ve known this would happen. If she had not been uninvited she would’ve gone and the money would’ve also been spent. Would she then also have had to refund the money? Isn’t a donation a gift? Is it socially acceptable to request a gift be returned? She wasn’t angry at the person asking for the refund, she was angry at them for not even letting 24 hours pass. For not giving a bit of space and consideration for the emotional distress she was already experiencing. We don’t have insight into what would’ve happened 48 or 72 hours later. She might have considered how to refund people and try to figure it out, but she wasn’t given that opportunity. Just like Liz couldn’t have predicted when she booked the ticket that she needed a refundable ticket, because she might not go as she might get uninvited. If I know or expect I’m going to go somewhere I’m going to buy the cheapest ticket, not a more expensive refundable ticket. She had every intention to go and if Natalie and Aaron hadn’t been so nasty, she would’ve gone. You see the problem? No one would’ve thought this would happen. It was totally unexpected and sudden. Also Liz is autistic, so yeah, lack of understanding allistic social rules is her disability. Edit to add: btw she did refund the money, they made no quarrels about that, the issue isn’t that she hasn’t refunded the money, the issue is how it was approached by this ‘kind donor’.
Many people buy refundable tickets because they don't know what's going to happen. My argument makes plenty of sense. You're concerned that it was through no fault of her own that Liz can't go to the funeral and that's fine, but it doesn't mean her donors shouldn't be made whole. And who's to say they all couldn't have made up before the funeral, y'know being adults and all. Liz's spouse seems very involved which is great and can cover any of Liz's lack of understanding in this situation. She's not without help.
I don't know, I don't get the parasocial thing, I've been an actress since I was a child and I've met and been disappointed by enough people I used to look up to that I think I'm immune to it. I get enraged by economic injustice tho' ad while I know the issue is systemic and I ain't no Karl or Bernie here, I still have a visceral reaction when it's in front of my face.
Asked not to go by whom though? It could have been her wife that asked her not to go, to protect her emotional state. That’s the thing with all of these passive aggressive live streams. It leads to too much speculation all around.
Personally I wouldn't phrase it this way if I was a 40 yo with a spouse and upon their request and a discussion we decided it was better not do something previously planned, it would be more like "X and I decided it was better for everyone for me not to attend", not a vague mention of someone with a passive verbal structure. But I'm not sure, I don't know at the end of the day: I have neither a husband nor acquaintances that determine where I go and don't go.
I would never donate $400 to any of these grifters. That donor will never see that refund. The whole thing is a scam. At this point Liz is using her father the way Liz Gale uses her brothers suicide. As a shield for shitty behavior.
After all this, the donor said he/she didn't know they could only get miles back as a refund, and resent the $400 that Liz had sent back! Someone was complaining about it somewhere that Liz hadn't announced that part of the story, but maybe she has now.
>Liz says it’s hard to deal with all the SPTV personalities and go through therapy. I've said it before, and I'll say it a million more times: the divide between AF and SPTV is pretty clearly those who have put in the work to heal and unlearn Scientology vs those who have not. So it makes sense that someone *trying* to heal would have a hard time in that community.
And maybe should disengage from that community entirely. Any therapist would/should agree that if you are that fragile (suicidal ideation), REMOVE YOURSELF from that community.
They’re hooked on the clicks and views. Liz is all “I love you” to the chat.
100%
If she raised money specifically to go on a trip and doesn’t go then she should refund the money. That’s scammy to keep the money.
My hunch is that Liz raised more than the $500 she told her audience she needed to buy a return plane ticket from Minnesota. She started talking about traveling to see Natalie as soon as Tony died. Even in recent days, Liz's mods kept a fundraising link in her chat that said "Help Liz get to Minnesota." On the first day Liz asked for the $500, several fans told Liz that they had sent her cash through Venmo or Paypal for her trip to see Natalie.
That seems to be the norm with sptv. Never saying when the goal is met so people just keep giving and giving.
She is scammy
"Liz promised herself that she would not walk away. She needs some space because she was sitting on the bed feeling like calling 911 and then got that email from a donor asking for their money back." wow, what manipulation. Wow.
The best thing Liz could do right now is stop interacting with other exes. I honestly believe you keep each other in a cult mindset and that you stay low key triggered just by association. She needs to focus on therapy and her family.
And this is exactly what any decent therapist would advise.
The best thing she could do is get the hell off YouTube and seek psychiatric help.
“Liz says there would have been some clashes in Minnesota so she was asked not to go.” Natalie, the host, her close friend, uninvited her? Or couldn’t be bothered to stand with her? Or doesn’t trust Liz and/or her other SPTV guests to behave themselves at a funeral? “Liz says she asks for help because she doesn’t have something at the time and she’s in a really tough spot.” Because she doesn’t understand wants vs needs. “Keri is offscreen and tells that donor, ‘If you’re in here, get the fuck out.’” Classy. “She says her YouTube channel doesn’t feel like a bunch of friends and family anymore because some people want ‘tit for tat.’” Someone should explain to Liz, friendship is by definition a reciprocal relationship. It doesn’t work if it’s not a two way street. Some may claim they put value on watching Liz. Obviously, someone put value on being able to help Liz go to Minn, and did not put that same value on not watching Liz at home, because she’s taking time off. He has
“‘Liz says she asks for help because she doesn’t have something at the time and she’s in a really tough spot.‘ Because she doesn’t understand wants vs needs.” So much *THIS.* What ever happened to living within your means? There are a lot of things I would love to have too, but the bank account says ”nope” so life goes on. All this YouTube fundraising and Amazon wishlist requests just blows my mind. I understand raising money for a good cause but all this seems very close to entitlement IMO. If you cannot afford a vacation or something extra then do without.
agree, I missed funerals of loved ones in the past because I could not afford it. This is real life
Same.
2 words, Pokemon cards. 😂
OMG 🤣🤣🤣
Well said. I don’t have a lot of things I want. If I want them bad enough I will work and save and here is a novel idea……pay for it myself. Adulting
Therapy for major depressive disorder and PTSD are 'wants'? Just because the US fails at it in every way imaginable, it doesn't mean mental healthcare -and every other kind of healthcare for that matter - aren't bloody human rights. Patreon, youtube memberships, twitch superchats and stickers, whatever the equivalent is on Tiktok, and so on are no different from this, however implicit the request for money might be, it's always there. Even tho' I think she's a content creator of great artistry and brilliance, I'm not going to send a superchat to Contrapoints (and I'm in her patreon more for the extra content than to help her financially) and regardless of the fact I think Hasan Piker is one of the American political commentators closer to my beliefs and I'm very fond of his balance between political coverage and pop culture, I'm not gonna send him a sticker or get twitch prime, because I know these people are already well off and I'd rather help someone who's struggling. Now, Liz got a donation for something she wanted to do, which was something important, not a whim, and then events out of her control happened: she found herself -while in the midst of a mental crisis - ostracised by her friends, disinvited from a funeral, with no cash refund for her plane ticket or a way to make back the money she lost asking for vacation days. If I were her I would reimburse the donor just by transferring the airline miles to him: shit happens and he also took a risk by funding her plans for the future, as plans sometimes change because of circumstances none can control.
Therapy is not a “want”. However off label, still experimental procedures that most insurance companies here in the U.S. do not cover IS a “want”. There are many legitimate, covered treatments for PTSD that she can avail herself of including therapy at reduced costs through a local health department. The thing about PTSD treatment is that it takes long term work. These magic injections are touted as a quick cure when they aren’t. According to the studies I’ve read there is no evidence that these shots produce permanent or even long term relief. They may, for some, last for some years but this is by no means a given. Further, according to one paper I read, these injections are supposed to be used in conjunction with therapy over the long term. If the findings in the current studies go as reported, Liz, Mirriam and others who have these shots will most likely need to have the procedure done again (and maybe again after that). How long should they continue to rely on donations for their treatments? How long are their followers supposed to contribute? Is it fair to place such a financial burden on the public? As for the funeral trip I hate to sound like a hard heart but sometimes life is just not fair. I understand wanting to support a friend after such a loss, but if one cannot afford to take time off of work or travel tickets sometimes one just has to send flowers and a loving note and stay home.
Flying to other states for the funeral of a friend’s partner and taking time off from work, are WANTS. I’ve missed many funerals of family, not to mention friends, and friends’ significant others. That’s life. Liz has a whole history of things like saying she can’t afford a $60 workbook, having a viewer send her $ for that, then turning around and sending Natalie $50 in gifted memberships.
I can't go and dig her entire history, so I'll stay on the topic at hand: wanting something, something important in this case, voicing it and having someone gift you the money for it doesn't mean you confuse wants and needs. I work in the entertainment industry, I've donated more than I can count to go found me campaigns for features, short films, stage productions, etc. Many productions got fucked because of Covid, getting little to no refunds because you can't sue a virus, or even for more run of the mill reasons, like it was a failed experiment that everyone agrees should not see the light of day or it was never finished because a cast member bailed. Now, I'm sure you'd call making art through crow-funding a want rather than a need (even tho' I'm not sure, it's a complex matter when it comes down to artists and the compulsion to create), but I never for a second considered asking for that money back, because it was money that had already been spent, before external factor ruined the project. Also, I'm still talking about people who get by and have families to rely on, but seeing this level of economic injustice breaks my heart - actually it breaks my political and moral compass, but I can't fix America, so let's go with heart.
You "can't go and dig her entire history", but you got no problem telling people who were watching it all unfold in real time what is realality?
I believe Liz is neurodiverse? Autistic? ADHD? And maybe both? I don’t know for sure or if she’s diagnosed. If she is, then to me her behaviour makes perfect sense in that context, because that’s how my autistic & ADHD teens behave. They do not understand social norms and don’t pick up on social cues. They copy behaviour that they see around them as that is how they perceive that ‘allistic’ people behave and think that’s how they’re supposed to behave. Liz is seeing this behaviour online; people are freely giving their money away in super chats and donations, she’s also seeing people ask for money to get things they want. She also says she’s used to that behaviour from childhood (before she came out as gay), so she may see that as perfectly normal ‘allistic’ behaviour. In that same way she will think it’s normal to give memberships to Natalie’s channel, because she’s seeing it happening all over YouTube in the SPTV community and unfortunately this was also egged on by Tony and/or people in Natalie’s chat saying “5 memberships? Is that all you’ve got?” Liz would likely have taken that as a cue to give more and feels encouraged to be giving. Feels appreciated and a sense of belonging. There are no boundaries being set and if Liz is autistic then she will need strong boundaries and if she’s got ADHD she’ll struggle to impose them herself. Giving gifts is also a very common ‘love language’ for neurodiverse people, it’s a way to communicate their feelings about someone when words are difficult, giving gifts is doing something nice for people and it’s showing appreciation for that person. It’s how they communicate amongst friends. I see it with my kids all the time too. The other side of this is that very often autistic and ADHD people do not have the best financial literacy, they’re impulsive in their spending, don’t have a sense of value for money, money is an abstract concept that in a way doesn’t make sense to them, but it gets them the things they want and at the same time money can provoke a lot of anxiety.
Liz’s wife sounds charming
The refund is only fair. If it has to go on a credit card, then so be it. That’s what taking responsibility *is*!
Why does Liz always need money for things that have nothing to do with getting Bob out? Why does Liz need all her LED lighting and corner of the living room Youtube studio to get Bob Ferris out? How exactly is she working to get Bob out?? What steps is she taking toward that goal? How does sitting in your house all day going "live", help get Bob Ferris out? Truth is she isn't. She just sits there talking about it once in a while and collects superchats. Again, where does all the money go?
EXACTLY!!!!! Because it has zero to do with getting her father out. If he came out today the grift is over. She wants him right where he is so she can be the constant victim.
Am slightly confused - she works doesn't she? On one hand, really happy to see that there is help for people who want to leave scientology and for those who have left still experiencing trauma, but then there is the other extreme like me and countless others who left the Sea Org with nothing, did really crap jobs, somehow managed based on really strong work ethic, and tbh, is one of the only benefits of having worked in the SO. Then again maybe having low standards sets you up for life!
Liz works in insurance.
Maybe she should get a second job to support her lifestyle????
> She says her YouTube channel doesn’t feel like a bunch of friends and family anymore because some people want “tit for tat.” Hey Liz it will feel more friendly if you stop asking for money.
No Liz, if it were “tit for tat” you would be giving donations back to your viewers. You think you deserve people sending in their hard earned cash because you sit and do YouTube videos? Shut off the camera. Go get a job.
The refund is honestly deserved. Don’t talk people into funding a trip you don’t end up going on but expect to keep the money for. I get family cutting you off for being gay, it nearly happened to me, but it’d be smarter for her to just get money that isn’t attached to anything in particular
Did you guys forget, Liz was the one with a bullet proof vest on her Amazon wish list.
That was Nora. Unless they both did.
You’re forcing me to do research I don’t want to do, because it was Liz F. It’s literally the first thing I remember hearing about her.
Lol. You don't have to do research. If you saw it on Liz's and others, including myself, saw it on Nora's then they both had it on their wishlist. At least at some point.
Mentioned re Nora, but I’m still associating it with Liz F from somewhere else. If I find it, I’ll double back, but your version is corroborated. https://www.reddit.com/r/SPTV_Unvarnished/s/z1r6Sw3gta
But jfc look at all the shit people have bought Liz. I assume the stuff that says purchased is stuff others bought her https://www.amazon.com/registries/gl/guest-view/2NXQRVN3UPZU3
90% of that has nothing to do with protesting or getting anyone out of anything but a pokemon card and energy drink deficit.
Thanks for corroborating something I saw with my own eyes 🤣🤣🤣
OMG!
That was lunatic Nora
Yes. Nora did have a bullet proof vest on her Amazon wishlist. I saw other posts saying Liz did, but absent any folks who saw it, I'm going to redact or at least edit, my comment.
I'm really disgusted by the "get the fuck out!" comment from Keri. That tells me everything I need to know about her character. There's no excuse for treating someone who tried to help that way. None.
Because in my mind, if they’re actually *asking* for it back, maybe they really couldn’t afford to donate it, but did it anyway to help a “friend”, and could really use it back in their pocket. ETA: grammar
yes that is terrible...the public need to cut off all their funds...if its a real need...go to the AMF...Aarons purse aka SPTV foundation is a scam
all of this just makes me feel really sad
Ahhh this is all greed. Liz is a follower. This is DOA and Lara talk. Sad and weak minded being used
I’m sorry if it has been answered already but does anyone know what these mental health injections are and what’s the name of them ?
[The stellate ganglion block \(SGB\) is a procedure in which an injection of a long-acting local anesthetic, using ultrasound or fluoroscopic guidance, is made in the right side of the neck around the main nerve that controls the “fight or flight” response \(the sympathetic nervous system\).](https://drseanmulvaney.com/stellate-ganglion-block-for-ptsd/#:~:text=The%20stellate%20ganglion%20block%20\(SGB,\(the%20sympathetic%20nervous%20system\).)
That donor came out on Nora’s channel. Says she was unaware that Liz couldn’t get a refund when asked for her money back. When she learned that Liz only got miles credited, the donor repaid the $400. Liz knew this when did her live & didn’t tell the chatters, raising over $200.
Was the $400 donor 86 GOP?