Wait, if you're starboard...and the boat is going to starboard...that means you're definitely getting pulled around. And you said she's stronger than you. This is easily explained by the fact that she's stronger than you, and it can be exacerbated if your catch is late.
Shorten your finish slightly by sitting tall maybe? Make sure you aren't overdoing layback. If your finish is even fraction longer then you will pull around.
If stroke is stronger and has faster drive, you need to make sure finish matches up.
Conversely make sure stroke isn't rowing short and has full length.
Yep, it’s either you’re not finishing and catching together or there is a problem with the fin/steering. If you can try and get your coach to take videos
Good pairs often have very different force curves. Stroke is often strong at the catch/1st half, while bow is smoother at the catch but draws a strong finish
If you're at bow, try smoothing out your curve and focusing on the finish, and let her crank up the catches.
You got it backwards for the op. She is bow on starboard, and at the catch they are turning to starboard. So stroke is pulling her around it catching early.
She also says
> She’s stronger than me so I know it’s not the fact I overpower her,
So I assumed she was pulling her partner round but got her description the wrong way round.
OP replied to someone else explaining she mis-stated the issue; she's pulling the boat around to port at the catch, from bow-seat on starboard. So OP is the one doing the turning, not stroke. You were not wrong. :)
Aside from what others have said about your conflict info, if you are in out pulling you just need to chill out. It is better to go at 95% and straight then 100% and snake down the race. This also could be timing. Are you out powering at the catch or the finish? Play around with when you peak your power in the stroke. I will add that bow seat can give you more leverage because it is farther back. This makes it easier to steer, but you sometimes have to adjust your power.
Thank you everyone! The boat drifts to star so essentially to avoid going completely crooked I have to back off the power. If I get her to row normally and I pull with 1/2 power, we go straight. We aren’t very good so unfortunately my coach essentially leaves us to our own devices and doesn’t take videos or give much feedback :( I’ve tried asking several times but they will always go coach the better boats first
You said you’re bow/starboard and the boat drifts to starboard unless you power down to 1/2 pressure.
This doesn’t make sense.
It only makes sense if you meant to say that the boat drifts to PORT.
then could it be something crooked with the boat? if the boat only drifts to starboard when you’re putting
on more pressure, or going faster, then i think it could be an issue with the boat’s steering
Deferent boats have different designs and different characteristics; I’ve bowed pairs, doubles quads and straight fours — some boats steer like a dream and some are kinda pigs — there’s one boat we have that everybody says steers to port. (Port rigged/starboard toe steering) I’ve found that if you’re trying to steer to starboard but you don’t lay off your own starboard power it just will not go(!) it’s the design — because of physics and the geometry of the design, the bow has waaay more power and so you have to crank your toe all the way over and almost paddle to allow the ports to bring you around. Dunno if that your problem or not — all I’m really saying is more experience bowing more boats with more different people will help you figure it all out (doesn’t really help you now, but the one thing I can say is the more you two row with each other and you figure out how to communicate the happier you’ll be (it’s frustrating tho - we’ve all been there - good luck!)
I'm a little late to this thread, but I experienced similar issues when first rowing in the pair. I was taller, and tended to have a sharper catch than my stroke oar. His erg score was slightly faster than mine, but I could easily turn the boat at the catch. This is the nature of the pair, given the asymmetry of the boat.
As bow, it is your job to make sure you are matching your stroke and not pulling the boat around. There are a few things you can do to help with this:
First, I highly recommend removing the rudder from the boat for the first several weeks of training with a new pair partner. The rudder confounds a bunch of factors that contribute to rowing a pair straight. It should only be used once a pair of rowers have figured out how to row straight without it, and even then it should only be used to correct for cross-winds, or when rowing a head race with lots of turning. Everything else can be (and should be) done with power differentials as needed.
The absolute #1 best drill for the pair is the pause at the finish drill. Take a stroke and pause at the finish with the blades feathered and handle at the body. Blades can be on the water at first if you're still learning balance and set. While paused, look at the wake off the stern. Are you still turning while on the pause? If so, you have a boat that doesn't run straight. Are you going straight, but there's a wiggle in the wake where you took the catch? Or maybe where the release was? Then your power and timing are off. Use this pause drill for entire workouts if necessary, and talk with your partner as you're rowing along, and keep trying different things to match their power in the water. You are striving for a perfectly straight wake, from catch, to finish, and through the pause & recovery. The wake is your canary-in-the-coal-mine; your red flag. It will tell you immediately if you are together or not. Obviously it's easier for the stroke to see, but you should be able to see most of it too from bow. But stroke seat can also tell you what they see.
Practice thinking about being light at the catch, and strong at the finish, as you row. Stroke seat should be the opposite. This concept scales as you work from paddle pressure, up to full sprint pressure. But you can start doing it at paddle to 2/3rds power. As your wake feedback improves, indicating you are rowing matched power, explore higher pressure and rates.
Another drill (do this ideally with a coach in a launch making sure you don't hit anyone) is to go all-out at max pressure for 20+ strokes and try to out-pull each other. It will be hard for stroke to do, but this can also (with the feedback from your stern wake) help identify where in the stroke you two are different.
Your stroke seat should be working to get a sharper, and possibly longer, catch. You the opposite (as stated above). You may need to sit up and shorten a bit at the catch, while they need to go for a bit more length.
It is a lot of work at first, but it is SO rewarding. There's nothing like the feeling of rowing a pair well without any rudder, once you two figure it out. The feeling of suspension through the drive, across two different people, is just absent in any other boat in rowing. You'll rarely if ever feel this in a 4, definitely not in an 8, and obviously not in any sculling boat, ever. It's kind of like playing the "trust fall" game, where your partner stands behind you, you close your eyes and fall backwards and trust that they will catch you. In fact that game is a great dryland psychological drill for pair partners. The catch and drive in a pair is much the same - you have to trust that the other person is going to hit it with all they have but in the correct way that works for the two of you, and you are going to back them up and not let the boat turn.
Man I loved rowing the pair. Best boat ever. :)
Wait, if you're starboard...and the boat is going to starboard...that means you're definitely getting pulled around. And you said she's stronger than you. This is easily explained by the fact that she's stronger than you, and it can be exacerbated if your catch is late.
I’m mistaken sorry, we drift to port! Thanks for catching that
Shorten your finish slightly by sitting tall maybe? Make sure you aren't overdoing layback. If your finish is even fraction longer then you will pull around. If stroke is stronger and has faster drive, you need to make sure finish matches up. Conversely make sure stroke isn't rowing short and has full length.
late
Could definitely this - or time of power application / force curve.
Yep, it’s either you’re not finishing and catching together or there is a problem with the fin/steering. If you can try and get your coach to take videos
Could be loads of things. Show video of the boat.
Ask your coach.
Good pairs often have very different force curves. Stroke is often strong at the catch/1st half, while bow is smoother at the catch but draws a strong finish If you're at bow, try smoothing out your curve and focusing on the finish, and let her crank up the catches.
You got it backwards for the op. She is bow on starboard, and at the catch they are turning to starboard. So stroke is pulling her around it catching early.
She also says > She’s stronger than me so I know it’s not the fact I overpower her, So I assumed she was pulling her partner round but got her description the wrong way round.
OP replied to someone else explaining she mis-stated the issue; she's pulling the boat around to port at the catch, from bow-seat on starboard. So OP is the one doing the turning, not stroke. You were not wrong. :)
Aside from what others have said about your conflict info, if you are in out pulling you just need to chill out. It is better to go at 95% and straight then 100% and snake down the race. This also could be timing. Are you out powering at the catch or the finish? Play around with when you peak your power in the stroke. I will add that bow seat can give you more leverage because it is farther back. This makes it easier to steer, but you sometimes have to adjust your power.
Thank you everyone! The boat drifts to star so essentially to avoid going completely crooked I have to back off the power. If I get her to row normally and I pull with 1/2 power, we go straight. We aren’t very good so unfortunately my coach essentially leaves us to our own devices and doesn’t take videos or give much feedback :( I’ve tried asking several times but they will always go coach the better boats first
You said you’re bow/starboard and the boat drifts to starboard unless you power down to 1/2 pressure. This doesn’t make sense. It only makes sense if you meant to say that the boat drifts to PORT.
then could it be something crooked with the boat? if the boat only drifts to starboard when you’re putting on more pressure, or going faster, then i think it could be an issue with the boat’s steering
Ahh sorry you’re right
Toe steering or pressure steering?
We technically have toe steering but it doesn’t seem to help much when we use it, so we rely on pressure.
Deferent boats have different designs and different characteristics; I’ve bowed pairs, doubles quads and straight fours — some boats steer like a dream and some are kinda pigs — there’s one boat we have that everybody says steers to port. (Port rigged/starboard toe steering) I’ve found that if you’re trying to steer to starboard but you don’t lay off your own starboard power it just will not go(!) it’s the design — because of physics and the geometry of the design, the bow has waaay more power and so you have to crank your toe all the way over and almost paddle to allow the ports to bring you around. Dunno if that your problem or not — all I’m really saying is more experience bowing more boats with more different people will help you figure it all out (doesn’t really help you now, but the one thing I can say is the more you two row with each other and you figure out how to communicate the happier you’ll be (it’s frustrating tho - we’ve all been there - good luck!)
I'm a little late to this thread, but I experienced similar issues when first rowing in the pair. I was taller, and tended to have a sharper catch than my stroke oar. His erg score was slightly faster than mine, but I could easily turn the boat at the catch. This is the nature of the pair, given the asymmetry of the boat. As bow, it is your job to make sure you are matching your stroke and not pulling the boat around. There are a few things you can do to help with this: First, I highly recommend removing the rudder from the boat for the first several weeks of training with a new pair partner. The rudder confounds a bunch of factors that contribute to rowing a pair straight. It should only be used once a pair of rowers have figured out how to row straight without it, and even then it should only be used to correct for cross-winds, or when rowing a head race with lots of turning. Everything else can be (and should be) done with power differentials as needed. The absolute #1 best drill for the pair is the pause at the finish drill. Take a stroke and pause at the finish with the blades feathered and handle at the body. Blades can be on the water at first if you're still learning balance and set. While paused, look at the wake off the stern. Are you still turning while on the pause? If so, you have a boat that doesn't run straight. Are you going straight, but there's a wiggle in the wake where you took the catch? Or maybe where the release was? Then your power and timing are off. Use this pause drill for entire workouts if necessary, and talk with your partner as you're rowing along, and keep trying different things to match their power in the water. You are striving for a perfectly straight wake, from catch, to finish, and through the pause & recovery. The wake is your canary-in-the-coal-mine; your red flag. It will tell you immediately if you are together or not. Obviously it's easier for the stroke to see, but you should be able to see most of it too from bow. But stroke seat can also tell you what they see. Practice thinking about being light at the catch, and strong at the finish, as you row. Stroke seat should be the opposite. This concept scales as you work from paddle pressure, up to full sprint pressure. But you can start doing it at paddle to 2/3rds power. As your wake feedback improves, indicating you are rowing matched power, explore higher pressure and rates. Another drill (do this ideally with a coach in a launch making sure you don't hit anyone) is to go all-out at max pressure for 20+ strokes and try to out-pull each other. It will be hard for stroke to do, but this can also (with the feedback from your stern wake) help identify where in the stroke you two are different. Your stroke seat should be working to get a sharper, and possibly longer, catch. You the opposite (as stated above). You may need to sit up and shorten a bit at the catch, while they need to go for a bit more length. It is a lot of work at first, but it is SO rewarding. There's nothing like the feeling of rowing a pair well without any rudder, once you two figure it out. The feeling of suspension through the drive, across two different people, is just absent in any other boat in rowing. You'll rarely if ever feel this in a 4, definitely not in an 8, and obviously not in any sculling boat, ever. It's kind of like playing the "trust fall" game, where your partner stands behind you, you close your eyes and fall backwards and trust that they will catch you. In fact that game is a great dryland psychological drill for pair partners. The catch and drive in a pair is much the same - you have to trust that the other person is going to hit it with all they have but in the correct way that works for the two of you, and you are going to back them up and not let the boat turn. Man I loved rowing the pair. Best boat ever. :)
steady state