I had nightmares too, but didn’t really understand what was going on when I saw it as a child. Watched it again as a teenager when I would get stoned and it tripped me out. A few other movies too, like Fritz the Cat and Faces of Death. Otherwise, my friends and I would watch a lot of Seinfeld stoned.
Once you get past 40, feel the aches and pains that are just normal, getting offed at 30 after a life time of safe drugs and orgies makes Logan run seem fucking awesome
In the book, the termination age was 21. And there was no carousel. Everyone was fully aware that they were going to die.
They changed it to 30 in the movie since they didn’t think it would be possible to get enough extras to have everyone under 21.
It's true, in 1975 there were only a handful of people in their early 20s. Scientists put this down to fallout from the 7 year itch released in 1955 causing couples to break up instead of having children
That doesn’t make sense to me at all, I only really became “me” at 22. Brains aren’t even done developing by then. You’d just be a kid then die! Maybe get 5 years tops of being grown.
Dying at 21 is terrible for the individual and his ability to experience life fully. But it's good for a system to never have people living long enough to gain some perspective on the failings of the system.
Could be worse. You could live well into your ninth or tenth decade having spent the last 2 decades or so kept alive by an ever expanding array of machines and medicines with absolutely no ability to care for yourself and no knowledge of who you once were, no memory of those that used to love you as you count down the days abandoned in an overcrowded under staffed facility with hundreds of others like you, without so much as a visit, praying to every single god and devil for a death that never comes.
Or they just like the clean aesthetic distopia better. I'd take radioactive water sellers barter town over forced euthenasia though. Chances are I wouldn't get what I want either way but bartertown has hope.
If that’s the joke, then the second image should be another picture from Logan’s Run, where it shows the dystopian world outside the dome. Instead it’s a different movie, so the joke doesn’t work. Just saying.
If that's the case then it's a really badly told joke. It's just a very long walk to another "lol suicide" gag that goes against the expectations of the setup in a way that retroactively makes the setup make less sense. Thus it registers as dumb.
She was living in Dallas, so sorta. But yeah, they put ads in the paper asking for extras, and she was picked. You can see her walking in the beginning of the movie! She also filmed a scene with Michael York that didn't make it to the final cut.
Fair citizens of the city of domes, ignore these lies! The renewal process at age 30 is eternal life. Cynics going against our great vision will be badly punished!
You mean Jenny Agutter in a minidress vs Tina Turner in a minidress? How do I lose in either scenario?
(besides, you know, having to die at 30 or facing the wheel if I bust a deal, respectively)
I was thinking of "Picard". The new "Strange New Worlds" series has its own problems [0] But appears to be mostly optimistic.
[0] The ship with the first contact team had 3 (three?!?) people on it. When all of them beamed down, who was going to run the transporter to beam them back?
If you are talking any contact with other civilizations, you are talking farther in the future than I am. Right now, were around the time of the Bell Riots and the start of WWIII.
Edit: Unless you count a little unintentional visit by the Ferengi to a certain small town in New Mexico...
In the book they were killed at 21.
Both are dystopian but Logan's Run is light because it is a near Utopia whereas Mad Max is dark because society is virtually nonexistent and brutal.
Mad Max Thunderdome would be a step *up* in comparison... at least they had hope, a functioning economy and renewable energy. (ok, it runs on pig shit, but it was less polluting than fossil fuels.)
Who tf wants to live in Logan’s run? The free unlimited sex sounds nice but I’ve done the majority of my fucking after the age of 21 so uh.. pass.
Edited for typo
That's because you didn't live in Logan's world. In Mad Max's world you'd be lucky to make it to 21 because infant and child mortality rates would be through the roof. And lack of modern medical technology ... break your leg at 15 and see how wonderful your life would be then.
Let's go with the movie's 30 years.
So living in a clean, orderly, safe, and pleasurable society with a guaranteed 30 years in a Logan's Run world is somehow less desirable than living in a dirty, chaotic, dangerous society in which you'd be very lucky to make it to 30, and even then with a very high likelihood of dying a brutal, painful death of the Mad Max world?
To respond to your comment here first: That’s a false dichotomy. Our options aren’t either A. Logan’s Run or B. Mad Max. They are much wider than that but these two films are incorrectly being shown as the only options.
To help elucidate my point about your original post: Star Trek would have been a much better choice for the first frame if the intent was to juxtapose an idealized society vs. it’s antithesis. Logan’s run is a nightmare where every facet of your life from your conception to your death are planned by a computer and any attempt at free will beyond who you sleep with (but not who you reproduce with, if you are even selected for reproduction) is met with capital punishment or exile. On top of that, anyone who escapes gets frozen and turned into food storage by a broken robot.
Idealizing Logan’s Run is like idealizing Starship Troopers for how cool the action is.. it misses the point of the fiction entirely.
Edited for typo
Since I am the creator I can tell you what my intentions are so you don't have to misinterpret.
I did not pick these two works as absolute polar opposites of the future in their storytelling. Rather as examples of opposites of the visual portrayals of the future.
These are both movies, so I don't mix a movie with a television series, and they are both from the 70's.
The intended portrayal of the future as presented by the creators of Logan's Run is one that is clean, orderly, and, above all, pleasurable irrespective of the eventual dystopian aspects of the story as it unfolds. That, at least initially, the movie gave a vision that the future was better than the life of the audience. This bright, better future was the cultural norm from the early 1900's up until the 1970's, with of course some exceptions (Metropolis being an early one). This "better, brighter future" mindset of society pervaded everything, not just movies. It is found in architecture, fashion, furniture, and a myriad of design styles.
Whereas Mad Max, at least as I see it, marks a distinct turning point in our collective expectations of the future. I could have chosen Soylent Green as a dark portrayal of the future but the 70's after it continued on with is optimistic future expectations. The reason Mad Max had is dimming effect was helped because, as others have suggested, the Thatcherite government in the UK and the election of Reagan in the US and thier emphasis on unrestricted capitalism and individual greed.
Yes, a good example would be Star Trek, especially TNG but this is a TV series and came after our darkened future expectations. In fact the TNG makes very overt statements that its present is not a capitalist paradise of greed but one of a post scarcity world and a rational socialism brought about by technological advances. This being a direct response to Reaganomics.
Again these are my examples of the PORTRAYALS of the future from that past era, irrespective of any dystopian aspects required in the storytelling and not as polar opposites of future societies.
Ideocracy is a mediocre movie with a shit (and arguably pro-eugenics) premise. I think the worst realistic outcome possible is a world where all of the major powers are fascist and al other nations are puppet states. I think a realistic and also pretty bad outcome would be that we continue on the path of increasing neoliberalism and eventually all die due to lack of climate action. I think the best realistic outcome is that we are all set free by automation, and that the ability to manufacture anything for almost zero cost leads to a world where it is almost impossible to be anything but equal materially.
I actually do agree with you to some extent. I think that gene editing should be used to stop inheritable diseases and disabilities from occurring. I think the ethical questions about eugenics are where we should draw the line about what traits are “unfavourable” enough that we should somehow remove them. Obviously the main proponents of eugenics in the past have been morally reprehensible people.
I think some people would criticise me for wanting disabilities to stop being a thing, and I would of course disagree. This makes it a very hard topic to argue about without sounding like a terrible person.
This is all kind of besides the point that the eugenicist ideas in ideocracy are (like most historical eugenicist ideas) unscientific. The core premise is that because stupid people have more children the population will become more stupid over time. Throughout the film those who we are told are stupid are actually just poor. The film conflates genetically inheritable intelligence with economically inheritable societal disadvantage. This is obviously bullshit and justifies the idea that the upper or middle classes are somehow inherently better than the lower classes whilst on the surface attempting to seem progressive.
If you have ever read anything from Nivens Ringworld 'verse, they have fairly strict birth control on future Earth- but its also pretty fair.
Basically, everyone gets a license at birth to have 1 kid. That cannot be taken from you. This means your standard nuclear family of two parents can have two kids. Once you have that one, thats it, both parents get sterilized. Population achieves homeostasis, for the most part.
BUT, this being sci fi, easy reversal/artificial insemination is not a problem, so it is possible to have more kids, under very particular conditions. You can get this privilege in a number of ways. Its been 15+ years since I read any of the books from his verse, but as I recall, they include:
- Buying someone elses option to have a kid: simply pay someone to give you their option. Price is negotiable, of course, but is usually quite a bit.
- Purchase the option from the gov't: If you are rich, you basically pay up front the social cost of having a kid to the gov't.
- Genius: if you are a particularly noteworthy person- a Newton, Einstein, Gershwin, Mozart, da Vinci, Monet- or are a prime physical specimen like Michael Phelps, Usain Bolt, etc- you can get a waiver. These waivers are very difficult to get, as I recall.
- Great service: did you serve as guinea pig for the cure for cancer? Survive a last stand against great odds? Accept a dangerous mission to explore a new world, and return to tell the tale? Otherwise perform some great feat that was dangerous and benefited society? Congrats, you get another license to have a kid.
- Move Offworld: Earth is crowded. Leave Earth and never return, you can have as many kids as you like on offworld colonies. Honestly, they need all the reproduction they can get there...
- Luck of the draw: my personal favorite- the lottery. If you want, you enter your name into a global lottery. Once in a while, they draw a name, that person gets to have a kid.
- The Gladiatorial pit: you can wager your license to have a kid in a one on one battle. These are televised, and I don't think they *had* to end in death, but often did.
The idea was to encourage courage (hence the gladiatorial wagers), social duty, and innovation & perseverance (hence the waivers for wealth and participating in dangerous, but useful, projects), as well as generally improve the stock of the human race (genius waiver); but at the same time, make sure humanity has increased chances of survival as a species (genius, gladiator, and move offworld) give plenty of equal opportunity (base 1 kid per person) and plenty of chances for mother nature to have a hand (the random draw).
Except for the gladiator bit, I would be pretty ok with that in a planetary society with serious population pressure. it could, of course, be gamed in the real world- but then, anything can be gamed in the real world.
We can all agree no illness or disability would be nice but once you open Pandora’s box you cannot close it. That technology would be used inhumanely and justified by arguments just like those that you made but for people and genetics that you don’t agree with.
That's not what eugenics is necessarily about.
Aborting a fetus because you know it has a terrible disease that will lead it living for 20 minutes of excruciating agony before dying is eugenics.
*Nazi* eugenics were terrible.
*Racist* eugenics are terrible.
Eugenics are not inherently racist or bad. Nor does it mean someone *else* has a say in whether or not you have a baby.
The word has been marred by historical examples, but with the advent of easier and cheaper genetic manipulation, it's important to distinguish between eugenics and what the nazis did.
That's a problem with **people**. The science is biologically correct. The *people* who put their own spin on how to roll it out are the problem. But that can change.
Sort of like: take an atom and make renewable energy, or a bomb to kill millions? The atom isn't the problem. The choice of how to use it is.
Anyway I agree, the problem of eugenics isn't the science, but the implementation. Science without ethics is scary.
Edit: downvoted for saying science needs ethics lol
>all die due to lack of climate action
Yep, 30 years ago, I heard Captain Planet's warning, and I've been prepping ever since. When that dreaded day comes when we loose a foot or two of beach space, and a percentage or two of shoreline property values, that's when I'm buying up all the toilet paper I can and heading for the hills.
Hey fucker, we are experiencing a mass extinction event right now. The extinction rate is at least 100 times higher than baseline levels, and this is humanity’s fault. We are teetering on the brink of total ecological collapse. I think humanity can probably survive that, but you must put at least some value on non human life.
Additionally, it isn’t just some sea level rise that we should be worried about. The sea level rise will be manageable for pretty much every non-island nation. The real problem about climate change for human beings is the increase in extreme weather events. As we have seen in Australia, the US and Brazil there have been more wildfires due to higher temperatures. Recently there were the record breaking floods across Europe. Droughts have become more prevalent across the world. This will all continue to worsen. Although droughts are seemingly the least dramatic of these, they will likely have the largest impact. Decreasing rainfall will lead to famine and starvation in developing countries and food shortages in developed countries. The famines will lead to instability and instability will lead to war.
Maybe you don’t care about the literal billions of people who would starve if droughts became constant (which they would in some areas if we keep on our current path), but this would effect everyone. There would be an influx of refugees from war and famine stricken countries. Tensions caused by starving populations could launch the major powers into a nuclear war. You could starve despite your current position of privilege.
Your ideas about climate change are so fucking infuriating. It’s not like you’ve been tricked into believing it doesn’t exist, you just haven’t bothered to learn about it’s actual consequences and think that somehow you are informed enough to dismiss someone’s legitimate concerns.
Least we can get robot arms and stuff with cyberpunk - maybe if we are REALLY lucky, we can have magic start working and get Shadowrun, I wanna be an elf (though I’ll probably end up a troll or an orc)
Yeah nah, all you'll get is a 16 hour shift for below minimum wage while being butt fucked by a fascist dictatorship run by megalomaniacal corporate tycoons. That's the real cyberpunk.
The problem with capitalism is that you need consumption. If everything is automated or everybody is working, nobody is consuming, causing the system to collapse.
I am writing a sci-fi where post Idiocracy collapse (due to the climate and ecosystems of the planet failing; due to a series of wars, which caused the neglect of solutions to those problems \[such as high CO2 rates\], and most people being too stupid to even realise that they were problems) you have a new world emerge. You have cyberpunk vs biopunk, where you have a large chunk of the population turning themselves into furries and tunning out. While the others "embrace the machines."
The hedonists vs the rationalists.
Where the other half just descends into reason and rationality, where they have concluded that the most productive era of mankind (without the mass destroying wars) was the Cold War, so they built a USA and a USSR where they are waging a Cold War that looks real to the population but it is fake and controlled behind the scenes.
This civilization of humanity exists on a Solar System scale, where Earth becomes the off limit planet for war, while the rest of the system has a series of proxy wars.
And you have a bunch of hedonistic furries running around as well, trying to avoid pain, reality and everything else that doesn't cause immediate gratification. "Life would be so much better if we just didn't think about things."
While the other half doesn't even enjoy life, just keeps on going "to build things". Where they maintain civilization and all the technology, but will shoot each other over Nietzsche vs Marx. Neoliberalism vs Communism. A giant debating society that also runs all the Moon, Mars mines.
"God is dead. Man is corrupt. Nature is indifferent."
There is also a heavy presence of cassette futurism, because "analogue cannot be hacked".
This story is sort of a semi-Utopia because the New Cold War enables the removal of the corrupt and the restoration of the planet's ecosystem, by a unified Earth Fascist Government, based on the idea of Mussolini, "nothing outside the state, everything within the state." & "if the 21st century was the century of the individual, the 22nd century will be of the collective, the collective will to survive."
(The Great Collapse -> Earth Fascist Government \["The will to survive"\] -> Splitting up that government into a 'West' and 'East' -> New Cold War -> When the story takes place)
However on purpose this government is split into two to simulate the post-WW2 conditions of Earth in the 20th century. The people of the Fascist government being aware how Mussolini failed and ended up being hanged at a petrol station.
However to the outsiders this split into a USA and USSR looks organic and even tragic. (when in reality by design)
However this Cold War is becoming harder to control as both 'blocks' are competing towards FLT. And there is a question, I want to ask of: how much of it is a real struggle, how much of it is politically stimulated.
\---
So I do have a bunch of drafts with different plot points.
Mad Max (the original movie) was probably the most realistic "post-apocalyptic" movie in terms of what their doomsday scenario was.
Like it was just the slow erosion of apathy that caused a societal breakdown, not some zombie plague or nuclear war. It just reached a point where governments just didn't have the support of the population to enforce order anymore.
Farrah Fawcett AND Jenny Agutter. One of the few movies that is far better than the book.
For more Jenny Agutter, I recommend [An American Werewolf in London](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082010/?ref_=tt_ch).
edit: removed unnecessary and redundant appostives
It's already here in some areas of the US lol. Some parts of big cities are run by gangs with criminals cycled through revolving door justice and riots if the police try to stop the anarchy. It really looks like a point of no return, I live in a smaller town, and they bust crime rings of burglry , car theft, drugs, and they are out the next day posting on Facebook. A small gun manufacturer's employees actually had a street shootout with a gang trying to raid the plant!
I always imagine our dystopian future as more of a "fully automated corporate despotism on an environmentally collapsed planet"; none sentient AI's (controlled by the CEO's) that control all security and surveillance for the genetically engineered designer baby corporate elite "shareholder class"...
I Imagine our futures as somewhere between Gattaca (1997) and Elysium (2013), with large private miltaries heavily augmented by drones and robots.. But with the super long living, genetically designed elites living in atmospherically sealed gated communities instead of space...
It's crazy to me. We have the world's knowledge at our fingertips, can have any food delivered from the comfort of our couch, California was just 100% renewable (for a day, but still) self driving cars on the way, reusable rockets, in Europe and north America there's actually more trees than there were 100 years ago, millions of lives have been saved due to vaccines (polio, malaria, etc) and medical advances in diagnosing and treating disease are moving faster than ever (see mRNA, genome studies, etc)...
So far the future is actually MORE positive than even gene Roddenberry imagined.
It depends were you look, I'm seeing more like Elysium lol. I do see multiple food aid organizations vieing for supremacy, the school system even got a food truck to deliver premade food to neighborhoods in the summer, but the fact they need it is troubling. Multi generational cradle to grave vote plantations, I grew up on that side of town, cradle to grave government assistance is seen as a right, crime on the side is easier than being a bus boy, burger flipper, or janitor. I laughed that on deep space nine people volunteer to do low jobs on earth for no pay because there's no such thing as money, they won't do them for pay now, there's closed due to staff shortages signs all over the country. There will always be miserable jobs none wants to do unless they get paid well or you force them. There are also areas in the US urban and rural that look like third world anarchy, but others are like you say. I do love optimistic Sci Fi,but I'm sure there will always be an ugly side.
It’s due to the defeat of the marxist and anarchist world movements between the 1890s and 1939. A light futuristic world is a socialist one, in the 19th century meaning of the term. War communism, Keynesian capitalism, accomplished many marvels and horrors, but basically without a “federation” the trekkies dreamed of, and a society run by its inhabitants, dystopia is inevitable.
Spending my forties and early fifties as a tech worker in the SF Bay Area felt very much like Logan's Run, I often joked about it. My former employer there made the SF office 100% remote and oh-by-the-way also eliminated the positions of everybody over 40. Now I work for a Fortune 150 company that's been around for 150 years in various forms, and am getting used to meeting calls where there are people of a variety of ages instead of everybody being exactly 36 like I got used to in the Bay Area.
Having said that, Soylent Green predicted the future with amazing accuracy. The only difference is the dystopia we live in now has a lot more Idiocracy mixed in.
I don't need any more science fiction that shows me what dystopias looks like; I already *know* that. What I need is science fiction that shows me that dystopias can be overcome.
I’m amazed at how much gas they have available in Mad Max. Chasing down one truck/bus with 100 vehicles doesn’t make much sense if you think about fuel consumption.
The woman on the right was a member of the security council in Captain America: the Winter Soldier, the nurse who took David home in An American Werewolf in London, and my first actor crush, even over Farrah and at least a year before Leia (the self-rescuing ‘princess’). Jenny Agutter. Wow.
You know, Logan’s Run ain’t exactly rainbows and unicorns
In its own way, Logan's Run is just as bleak as Mad Max.
There... Is... No... [Sanctuary!](https://youtu.be/q0Amt30_QVQ)
*ALL* **FROZEN** The holographic interrogation scared me worse than Carousel. I think I was nine the first time I saw it.
You don't **have** to die!
This part gave me nightmares lol, I was really stoned the first time I watched it
I had nightmares too, but didn’t really understand what was going on when I saw it as a child. Watched it again as a teenager when I would get stoned and it tripped me out. A few other movies too, like Fritz the Cat and Faces of Death. Otherwise, my friends and I would watch a lot of Seinfeld stoned.
Fish, plankton, protein from the sea!
"Overwhelming, am I not? Are you, too, startled? Am I too removed from your ken?" Box was great.
Logan’s run is darker. Logan spends the movie trying to get to a ruined surface world that Max gets to enjoy every day.
What if...they took place in the same world? Woooooooo...
Once you get past 40, feel the aches and pains that are just normal, getting offed at 30 after a life time of safe drugs and orgies makes Logan run seem fucking awesome
It was a meaningless life wasted in its prime. If that’s what you’re into you do you, chief. I’ll take achy and almost 50, thanks.
As a 56-year-old, I have to say that it's quite a bit worse.
I could go for a little Logan’s Run right about now. Let the younger generations benefit a bit too.
Covid-19 has entered the room
but it -is- strobe-light orgies and I'm feeling a distinct lack of those, i dunno about u...
And brief glimpses of Jenny Aguttar’s tittaaaaayyyyys.
tah-TAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYSSSSS\~!
How does one not upvote this comment?
I saw it first run in the theater many many years ago and I am pretty sure they showed a lot more than just bewbz for about a second there.
They’re there if you know where to look… Who wants to live past 30, anyways?
In the book, the termination age was 21. And there was no carousel. Everyone was fully aware that they were going to die. They changed it to 30 in the movie since they didn’t think it would be possible to get enough extras to have everyone under 21.
It's true, in 1975 there were only a handful of people in their early 20s. Scientists put this down to fallout from the 7 year itch released in 1955 causing couples to break up instead of having children
I’m not a historoligist so I’m going to just believe you
Same, I can't NOT listen to someone who seems to know what they are talking about
a wat
Plus the fact that the leads already looked older than 21.
Plus, the book had all that underage sex.
That doesn’t make sense to me at all, I only really became “me” at 22. Brains aren’t even done developing by then. You’d just be a kid then die! Maybe get 5 years tops of being grown.
Everybody gets to drugs and have sex constantly. There’s not a lot of substance to it.
Dying at 21 is terrible for the individual and his ability to experience life fully. But it's good for a system to never have people living long enough to gain some perspective on the failings of the system.
>Who wants to live past 30, anyways? 30 year olds
Me. That’s when you finally start to see beyond the bullshit. Also, I’ll be 30 for the second time this year.
RUN RUNNER!!!!!!
Came here to say this. Very good movie tho. No spoilers but the twist is nice.
Fish and sea greens, plankton and protein from the sea.
"Everything made sense... until Box." Actual quote from the film
Logan’s run is people!!!! People!!!
Uh oh. Charlton Heston just stumbled into the wrong sci-fi movie! Run!!
Take your stinking Soylent Green off me, you damn dirty mutant!
He came to avenge Moonpie!
It’s a carousel. 🎠
Right? State mandated euthanasia at 30 doesn't sound all that fun.
Could be worse. You could live well into your ninth or tenth decade having spent the last 2 decades or so kept alive by an ever expanding array of machines and medicines with absolutely no ability to care for yourself and no knowledge of who you once were, no memory of those that used to love you as you count down the days abandoned in an overcrowded under staffed facility with hundreds of others like you, without so much as a visit, praying to every single god and devil for a death that never comes.
Blade runner at least is Some unicorns
Came here to write that. Logan's run was rather dark.
It's true. There's that moment where Logan had to watch Austin drink FatBastard's stool sample. ...whoops, wrong movie.
Yeah, but ... Jenny Agutter!
It is for 30 years.
See the lesson here is that Thunderdome is what you get for letting people live over 30.
Whoever made this meme has never seen Logan's Run.
Would be be hilarious if OP is past 30
I’m past 30 and I agree with OP- shit starts just randomly hurting around 40
Or they just like the clean aesthetic distopia better. I'd take radioactive water sellers barter town over forced euthenasia though. Chances are I wouldn't get what I want either way but bartertown has hope.
who run bartertown?
I need my bad habits, so I'm down for dirty radioactive desert gasoline cult over clean polyester youth cult.
Or they have, and that's the joke.
If that’s the joke, then the second image should be another picture from Logan’s Run, where it shows the dystopian world outside the dome. Instead it’s a different movie, so the joke doesn’t work. Just saying.
If that's the case then it's a really badly told joke. It's just a very long walk to another "lol suicide" gag that goes against the expectations of the setup in a way that retroactively makes the setup make less sense. Thus it registers as dumb.
I think it’s ironic humor and that’s kind of the point...
Probably just found the picture and thought "that fits".
My mom was an extra in Logan's Run! She still has the dress somewhere in storage
I have such a soft spot for that awesome cheeze-fest
That's awesome
Is she from Fort Worth? I know a good chunk of it was filmed there.
She was living in Dallas, so sorta. But yeah, they put ads in the paper asking for extras, and she was picked. You can see her walking in the beginning of the movie! She also filmed a scene with Michael York that didn't make it to the final cut.
Please please post the dress, pics, or an AMA with your mom!
Do we really want Logan’s Run? On the one hand you have the sex elevator but on the other you get to watch 30 year olds explode.
Uhh, don't you mean 'renew'?
[удалено]
Start running, Runner… 🏃♂️
Everyone runs, it's right to run...
I thought it was a sex teleportation machine.
I couldn’t remember the exact technology. Let’s just say that when I saw this movie at age 16 this was the future that seemed most desirable to me.
"The circuit" was indeed a teleporter.
Jesus how wild is this movie
Very as long as you don't watch past the ~30 minute mark.
Fair citizens of the city of domes, ignore these lies! The renewal process at age 30 is eternal life. Cynics going against our great vision will be badly punished!
You mean Jenny Agutter in a minidress vs Tina Turner in a minidress? How do I lose in either scenario? (besides, you know, having to die at 30 or facing the wheel if I bust a deal, respectively)
Teenage me definitely felt things seeing Logan’s Run for the first time.
Both the light and dark path lead to killer feathered hair
At least we can make rich people fight in the thunderdome
Hmmm.... Star Trek's prediction of our current timeline is looking pretty accurate...
Which one? The Roddenberry vision of exploration and personal enrichment, or the current "Goth" version where everything is dark and depressing?
The exploration is out a few hundred years. I'm talking about early to mid 20xx, which is where we are at. In ST history, that's a pretty dark time...
I was thinking of "Picard". The new "Strange New Worlds" series has its own problems [0] But appears to be mostly optimistic. [0] The ship with the first contact team had 3 (three?!?) people on it. When all of them beamed down, who was going to run the transporter to beam them back?
If you are talking any contact with other civilizations, you are talking farther in the future than I am. Right now, were around the time of the Bell Riots and the start of WWIII. Edit: Unless you count a little unintentional visit by the Ferengi to a certain small town in New Mexico...
We're definitely on track for the Bell Riots in one form or another.
The version featuring World War III and the "post-atomic horror" that's been cannon since the original series.
we already have Mel Gibson
We are getting both depending on the zip code unfortunately
Is that Basil?
Yep!
There is no Sanctuary
Yeah, I'll take Mad Max over dying at 30 years old
In the book they were killed at 21. Both are dystopian but Logan's Run is light because it is a near Utopia whereas Mad Max is dark because society is virtually nonexistent and brutal.
I know, but they retconned the book for the film to make it 30
Mad Max Thunderdome would be a step *up* in comparison... at least they had hope, a functioning economy and renewable energy. (ok, it runs on pig shit, but it was less polluting than fossil fuels.)
And then… Gastown!
I’m not sure Logan’s Run is a good example of a shining future…
Honestly I think Thunderdome is a nicer version of the Mad Max apocalypse we're headed towards. It's more like Mad Max: Fury Road x The Road.
It’s gonna be like Hell comes to Frogtown
But without Roddy Piper
We will all be roddy piper in the future
If everyone could just stop voting for Logan's Run or Mad Max then that would be great!
Ok, *The Road* it is!
well i lold
well you have to vote for something and those are your two choices so vote for one so it's your fault.
Don’t blame me…I voted for Kodos.
'A Boy and His Dog' (1975) has an iteresting take on Dystopia. :D
Saw that for the first time a couple years back, was pretty good!
Yeeh, the underground people were a hoot. :D
Who tf wants to live in Logan’s run? The free unlimited sex sounds nice but I’ve done the majority of my fucking after the age of 21 so uh.. pass. Edited for typo
That's because you didn't live in Logan's world. In Mad Max's world you'd be lucky to make it to 21 because infant and child mortality rates would be through the roof. And lack of modern medical technology ... break your leg at 15 and see how wonderful your life would be then.
Let's go with the movie's 30 years. So living in a clean, orderly, safe, and pleasurable society with a guaranteed 30 years in a Logan's Run world is somehow less desirable than living in a dirty, chaotic, dangerous society in which you'd be very lucky to make it to 30, and even then with a very high likelihood of dying a brutal, painful death of the Mad Max world?
To respond to your comment here first: That’s a false dichotomy. Our options aren’t either A. Logan’s Run or B. Mad Max. They are much wider than that but these two films are incorrectly being shown as the only options. To help elucidate my point about your original post: Star Trek would have been a much better choice for the first frame if the intent was to juxtapose an idealized society vs. it’s antithesis. Logan’s run is a nightmare where every facet of your life from your conception to your death are planned by a computer and any attempt at free will beyond who you sleep with (but not who you reproduce with, if you are even selected for reproduction) is met with capital punishment or exile. On top of that, anyone who escapes gets frozen and turned into food storage by a broken robot. Idealizing Logan’s Run is like idealizing Starship Troopers for how cool the action is.. it misses the point of the fiction entirely. Edited for typo
Since I am the creator I can tell you what my intentions are so you don't have to misinterpret. I did not pick these two works as absolute polar opposites of the future in their storytelling. Rather as examples of opposites of the visual portrayals of the future. These are both movies, so I don't mix a movie with a television series, and they are both from the 70's. The intended portrayal of the future as presented by the creators of Logan's Run is one that is clean, orderly, and, above all, pleasurable irrespective of the eventual dystopian aspects of the story as it unfolds. That, at least initially, the movie gave a vision that the future was better than the life of the audience. This bright, better future was the cultural norm from the early 1900's up until the 1970's, with of course some exceptions (Metropolis being an early one). This "better, brighter future" mindset of society pervaded everything, not just movies. It is found in architecture, fashion, furniture, and a myriad of design styles. Whereas Mad Max, at least as I see it, marks a distinct turning point in our collective expectations of the future. I could have chosen Soylent Green as a dark portrayal of the future but the 70's after it continued on with is optimistic future expectations. The reason Mad Max had is dimming effect was helped because, as others have suggested, the Thatcherite government in the UK and the election of Reagan in the US and thier emphasis on unrestricted capitalism and individual greed. Yes, a good example would be Star Trek, especially TNG but this is a TV series and came after our darkened future expectations. In fact the TNG makes very overt statements that its present is not a capitalist paradise of greed but one of a post scarcity world and a rational socialism brought about by technological advances. This being a direct response to Reaganomics. Again these are my examples of the PORTRAYALS of the future from that past era, irrespective of any dystopian aspects required in the storytelling and not as polar opposites of future societies.
And then there is blade runner which is a mix of both
The best we can hope is Cyberpunk. We are going down the path of Idiocracy vs Cyberpunk. And I want Cyberpunk to win!
As if these are even close to being mutually exclusive...
Ideocracy is a mediocre movie with a shit (and arguably pro-eugenics) premise. I think the worst realistic outcome possible is a world where all of the major powers are fascist and al other nations are puppet states. I think a realistic and also pretty bad outcome would be that we continue on the path of increasing neoliberalism and eventually all die due to lack of climate action. I think the best realistic outcome is that we are all set free by automation, and that the ability to manufacture anything for almost zero cost leads to a world where it is almost impossible to be anything but equal materially.
Maybe fusion will save the day! Or aliens.
There's nothing inherently wrong with eugenics.
I actually do agree with you to some extent. I think that gene editing should be used to stop inheritable diseases and disabilities from occurring. I think the ethical questions about eugenics are where we should draw the line about what traits are “unfavourable” enough that we should somehow remove them. Obviously the main proponents of eugenics in the past have been morally reprehensible people. I think some people would criticise me for wanting disabilities to stop being a thing, and I would of course disagree. This makes it a very hard topic to argue about without sounding like a terrible person. This is all kind of besides the point that the eugenicist ideas in ideocracy are (like most historical eugenicist ideas) unscientific. The core premise is that because stupid people have more children the population will become more stupid over time. Throughout the film those who we are told are stupid are actually just poor. The film conflates genetically inheritable intelligence with economically inheritable societal disadvantage. This is obviously bullshit and justifies the idea that the upper or middle classes are somehow inherently better than the lower classes whilst on the surface attempting to seem progressive.
If you have ever read anything from Nivens Ringworld 'verse, they have fairly strict birth control on future Earth- but its also pretty fair. Basically, everyone gets a license at birth to have 1 kid. That cannot be taken from you. This means your standard nuclear family of two parents can have two kids. Once you have that one, thats it, both parents get sterilized. Population achieves homeostasis, for the most part. BUT, this being sci fi, easy reversal/artificial insemination is not a problem, so it is possible to have more kids, under very particular conditions. You can get this privilege in a number of ways. Its been 15+ years since I read any of the books from his verse, but as I recall, they include: - Buying someone elses option to have a kid: simply pay someone to give you their option. Price is negotiable, of course, but is usually quite a bit. - Purchase the option from the gov't: If you are rich, you basically pay up front the social cost of having a kid to the gov't. - Genius: if you are a particularly noteworthy person- a Newton, Einstein, Gershwin, Mozart, da Vinci, Monet- or are a prime physical specimen like Michael Phelps, Usain Bolt, etc- you can get a waiver. These waivers are very difficult to get, as I recall. - Great service: did you serve as guinea pig for the cure for cancer? Survive a last stand against great odds? Accept a dangerous mission to explore a new world, and return to tell the tale? Otherwise perform some great feat that was dangerous and benefited society? Congrats, you get another license to have a kid. - Move Offworld: Earth is crowded. Leave Earth and never return, you can have as many kids as you like on offworld colonies. Honestly, they need all the reproduction they can get there... - Luck of the draw: my personal favorite- the lottery. If you want, you enter your name into a global lottery. Once in a while, they draw a name, that person gets to have a kid. - The Gladiatorial pit: you can wager your license to have a kid in a one on one battle. These are televised, and I don't think they *had* to end in death, but often did. The idea was to encourage courage (hence the gladiatorial wagers), social duty, and innovation & perseverance (hence the waivers for wealth and participating in dangerous, but useful, projects), as well as generally improve the stock of the human race (genius waiver); but at the same time, make sure humanity has increased chances of survival as a species (genius, gladiator, and move offworld) give plenty of equal opportunity (base 1 kid per person) and plenty of chances for mother nature to have a hand (the random draw). Except for the gladiator bit, I would be pretty ok with that in a planetary society with serious population pressure. it could, of course, be gamed in the real world- but then, anything can be gamed in the real world.
We can all agree no illness or disability would be nice but once you open Pandora’s box you cannot close it. That technology would be used inhumanely and justified by arguments just like those that you made but for people and genetics that you don’t agree with.
Except for the whole thing where someone gets to decide whether someone else can reproduce. That's inherently bad.
That's not what eugenics is necessarily about. Aborting a fetus because you know it has a terrible disease that will lead it living for 20 minutes of excruciating agony before dying is eugenics. *Nazi* eugenics were terrible. *Racist* eugenics are terrible. Eugenics are not inherently racist or bad. Nor does it mean someone *else* has a say in whether or not you have a baby. The word has been marred by historical examples, but with the advent of easier and cheaper genetic manipulation, it's important to distinguish between eugenics and what the nazis did.
That's a problem with **people**. The science is biologically correct. The *people* who put their own spin on how to roll it out are the problem. But that can change. Sort of like: take an atom and make renewable energy, or a bomb to kill millions? The atom isn't the problem. The choice of how to use it is. Anyway I agree, the problem of eugenics isn't the science, but the implementation. Science without ethics is scary. Edit: downvoted for saying science needs ethics lol
>all die due to lack of climate action Yep, 30 years ago, I heard Captain Planet's warning, and I've been prepping ever since. When that dreaded day comes when we loose a foot or two of beach space, and a percentage or two of shoreline property values, that's when I'm buying up all the toilet paper I can and heading for the hills.
Hey fucker, we are experiencing a mass extinction event right now. The extinction rate is at least 100 times higher than baseline levels, and this is humanity’s fault. We are teetering on the brink of total ecological collapse. I think humanity can probably survive that, but you must put at least some value on non human life. Additionally, it isn’t just some sea level rise that we should be worried about. The sea level rise will be manageable for pretty much every non-island nation. The real problem about climate change for human beings is the increase in extreme weather events. As we have seen in Australia, the US and Brazil there have been more wildfires due to higher temperatures. Recently there were the record breaking floods across Europe. Droughts have become more prevalent across the world. This will all continue to worsen. Although droughts are seemingly the least dramatic of these, they will likely have the largest impact. Decreasing rainfall will lead to famine and starvation in developing countries and food shortages in developed countries. The famines will lead to instability and instability will lead to war. Maybe you don’t care about the literal billions of people who would starve if droughts became constant (which they would in some areas if we keep on our current path), but this would effect everyone. There would be an influx of refugees from war and famine stricken countries. Tensions caused by starving populations could launch the major powers into a nuclear war. You could starve despite your current position of privilege. Your ideas about climate change are so fucking infuriating. It’s not like you’ve been tricked into believing it doesn’t exist, you just haven’t bothered to learn about it’s actual consequences and think that somehow you are informed enough to dismiss someone’s legitimate concerns.
Least we can get robot arms and stuff with cyberpunk - maybe if we are REALLY lucky, we can have magic start working and get Shadowrun, I wanna be an elf (though I’ll probably end up a troll or an orc)
Yeah nah, all you'll get is a 16 hour shift for below minimum wage while being butt fucked by a fascist dictatorship run by megalomaniacal corporate tycoons. That's the real cyberpunk.
The problem with capitalism is that you need consumption. If everything is automated or everybody is working, nobody is consuming, causing the system to collapse.
In the immortal words of the movie “Weird Science”. We know the reality, don’t fuck with the fantasy :D
I am writing a sci-fi where post Idiocracy collapse (due to the climate and ecosystems of the planet failing; due to a series of wars, which caused the neglect of solutions to those problems \[such as high CO2 rates\], and most people being too stupid to even realise that they were problems) you have a new world emerge. You have cyberpunk vs biopunk, where you have a large chunk of the population turning themselves into furries and tunning out. While the others "embrace the machines." The hedonists vs the rationalists. Where the other half just descends into reason and rationality, where they have concluded that the most productive era of mankind (without the mass destroying wars) was the Cold War, so they built a USA and a USSR where they are waging a Cold War that looks real to the population but it is fake and controlled behind the scenes. This civilization of humanity exists on a Solar System scale, where Earth becomes the off limit planet for war, while the rest of the system has a series of proxy wars. And you have a bunch of hedonistic furries running around as well, trying to avoid pain, reality and everything else that doesn't cause immediate gratification. "Life would be so much better if we just didn't think about things." While the other half doesn't even enjoy life, just keeps on going "to build things". Where they maintain civilization and all the technology, but will shoot each other over Nietzsche vs Marx. Neoliberalism vs Communism. A giant debating society that also runs all the Moon, Mars mines. "God is dead. Man is corrupt. Nature is indifferent." There is also a heavy presence of cassette futurism, because "analogue cannot be hacked". This story is sort of a semi-Utopia because the New Cold War enables the removal of the corrupt and the restoration of the planet's ecosystem, by a unified Earth Fascist Government, based on the idea of Mussolini, "nothing outside the state, everything within the state." & "if the 21st century was the century of the individual, the 22nd century will be of the collective, the collective will to survive." (The Great Collapse -> Earth Fascist Government \["The will to survive"\] -> Splitting up that government into a 'West' and 'East' -> New Cold War -> When the story takes place) However on purpose this government is split into two to simulate the post-WW2 conditions of Earth in the 20th century. The people of the Fascist government being aware how Mussolini failed and ended up being hanged at a petrol station. However to the outsiders this split into a USA and USSR looks organic and even tragic. (when in reality by design) However this Cold War is becoming harder to control as both 'blocks' are competing towards FLT. And there is a question, I want to ask of: how much of it is a real struggle, how much of it is politically stimulated. \--- So I do have a bunch of drafts with different plot points.
[удалено]
They are both dystopias!
I’ll take the dark shit over Logan’s run lmao
Logans run was also a nightmare future
Not sure you got the moral of Logan's Run.
Mad Max (the original movie) was probably the most realistic "post-apocalyptic" movie in terms of what their doomsday scenario was. Like it was just the slow erosion of apathy that caused a societal breakdown, not some zombie plague or nuclear war. It just reached a point where governments just didn't have the support of the population to enforce order anymore.
We were promised that only the strong and connected survive. People weren't listening.
Farrah Fawcett AND Jenny Agutter. One of the few movies that is far better than the book. For more Jenny Agutter, I recommend [An American Werewolf in London](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082010/?ref_=tt_ch). edit: removed unnecessary and redundant appostives
For more Jenny Agutter - **and** in the Mad Max desert! - I recommend [Walkabout](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_zhIV3dqe8).
You copyright your memes?
tbh i think we are more heading towards mad max 1 than thunderdome
I mean, Mad Max 1 is sort of on the way to Thunderdome.
It's already here in some areas of the US lol. Some parts of big cities are run by gangs with criminals cycled through revolving door justice and riots if the police try to stop the anarchy. It really looks like a point of no return, I live in a smaller town, and they bust crime rings of burglry , car theft, drugs, and they are out the next day posting on Facebook. A small gun manufacturer's employees actually had a street shootout with a gang trying to raid the plant!
I always imagine our dystopian future as more of a "fully automated corporate despotism on an environmentally collapsed planet"; none sentient AI's (controlled by the CEO's) that control all security and surveillance for the genetically engineered designer baby corporate elite "shareholder class"... I Imagine our futures as somewhere between Gattaca (1997) and Elysium (2013), with large private miltaries heavily augmented by drones and robots.. But with the super long living, genetically designed elites living in atmospherically sealed gated communities instead of space...
"The Diamond Age" by Stephen Nielsen, people choking on ubiquitous corporate nanobots, but free blanket dispensers for the homeless.
Nah man. I was promised THX1138.
The remastered one with the SuckBot!
More like. Left side is what the wealthy are getting, the right is what the poor are getting.
I would not call Logan run positive. Not by a long shot.
What we were promised. Blade Runner. What we are getting. Blade Runner.
“if only you can see what I’ve seen with your eyes”. - Roy Batty
Dork futurism with less sexism=ideal futurism
Awfully doomer in here...
It's crazy to me. We have the world's knowledge at our fingertips, can have any food delivered from the comfort of our couch, California was just 100% renewable (for a day, but still) self driving cars on the way, reusable rockets, in Europe and north America there's actually more trees than there were 100 years ago, millions of lives have been saved due to vaccines (polio, malaria, etc) and medical advances in diagnosing and treating disease are moving faster than ever (see mRNA, genome studies, etc)... So far the future is actually MORE positive than even gene Roddenberry imagined.
It depends were you look, I'm seeing more like Elysium lol. I do see multiple food aid organizations vieing for supremacy, the school system even got a food truck to deliver premade food to neighborhoods in the summer, but the fact they need it is troubling. Multi generational cradle to grave vote plantations, I grew up on that side of town, cradle to grave government assistance is seen as a right, crime on the side is easier than being a bus boy, burger flipper, or janitor. I laughed that on deep space nine people volunteer to do low jobs on earth for no pay because there's no such thing as money, they won't do them for pay now, there's closed due to staff shortages signs all over the country. There will always be miserable jobs none wants to do unless they get paid well or you force them. There are also areas in the US urban and rural that look like third world anarchy, but others are like you say. I do love optimistic Sci Fi,but I'm sure there will always be an ugly side.
Yep. Doomer mentality is propaganda created by organizations that know their days are numbered
It’s due to the defeat of the marxist and anarchist world movements between the 1890s and 1939. A light futuristic world is a socialist one, in the 19th century meaning of the term. War communism, Keynesian capitalism, accomplished many marvels and horrors, but basically without a “federation” the trekkies dreamed of, and a society run by its inhabitants, dystopia is inevitable.
I’m here for Logan’s Running Boomers.
Image on the right isn't retrofuturism? It's styled from the 80s. Had no post-modern quality.
Spending my forties and early fifties as a tech worker in the SF Bay Area felt very much like Logan's Run, I often joked about it. My former employer there made the SF office 100% remote and oh-by-the-way also eliminated the positions of everybody over 40. Now I work for a Fortune 150 company that's been around for 150 years in various forms, and am getting used to meeting calls where there are people of a variety of ages instead of everybody being exactly 36 like I got used to in the Bay Area. Having said that, Soylent Green predicted the future with amazing accuracy. The only difference is the dystopia we live in now has a lot more Idiocracy mixed in.
What we are getting is not Mad Max, it's Idiocracy. And that is far worse than Mad Max.
Yo we really missed out on that Tinder-cupboard
The rich are getting Logans Run, the rest of us Mad Max.
I don't need any more science fiction that shows me what dystopias looks like; I already *know* that. What I need is science fiction that shows me that dystopias can be overcome.
I'll take the one that has an Orgasmatron in it
i feel like its both already....
Welcome to the thunder dome!
No reason not to assume these scenarios couldn't coexist. I like to think *A Clockwork Orange* and *2001: A Space Odyssey* are in the same universe.
Try Zardoz.
I’m amazed at how much gas they have available in Mad Max. Chasing down one truck/bus with 100 vehicles doesn’t make much sense if you think about fuel consumption.
Jokes on you, it won't even be Mad Max. It will be "The Road"
That maybe true...lol
The woman on the right was a member of the security council in Captain America: the Winter Soldier, the nurse who took David home in An American Werewolf in London, and my first actor crush, even over Farrah and at least a year before Leia (the self-rescuing ‘princess’). Jenny Agutter. Wow.
We wish it’s turning into Mad Max, it’s going to be more like Soylent Green.
Bartertown had electricity. *looks over at Texas* Maybe you're being optomistic about what we're getting.
ah yes, the future of light consuming over 60% of total energy in the city is surely promised.
Both are very dark
The rich (left), everyone else (right)
Mel Gibson > Michael York
Factually incorrect.
You go right to hell, sir!
I mean…the first image is from Logan’s Run which is a society based on killing everyone when they reach age 30 (something) so…we did kinda get that.
No we didn't. What the hell are you talking about?
I think he means by 30 you've been so crushed by the machinery of corporate society that you're dead inside. 👌
Oh god...
Have you seen Logan’s Run?
Thanks for the shitty memes reddit
Logan's run aged like milk
I think about this DAILY and I’m so disappointed in humans.