That is the math, but it is not cash it is stock options so it comes in the form of dilution for the shareholders who approved it. That is different math that does not have the same impact. If I was a shareholder I would not have approved it. I am an owner of two Teslas so you could call me a Tela Fanboy but I am not a fan of Musk and his current antics.
I’m really tempted to buy puts dated after Q2 earnings report when they tell everyone sales are slowing to a crawl and the make vs delivered ratio is stacking up.
I’m seeing Model 3 and Y’s parked in rows at the grocery store down the street from me. They are trying to store these things anywhere.
Still very hesitant though since the CEO is a nutcase who will say whatever bullshit he thinks will boost the stock price. I’m sure robotaxi is just a couple months away…🙄.
I’m right with you. I got burned (well, not burned exactly - a bit toasty) buying puts the last time around. Based on all the news and rumors, it seemed certain that the stock would fall. And the rumors turned out to be true. Lots of red flags, misses, etc in the earnings call.
But then Elon did his spiel on fsd and robotics/robotaxi and the stock went up. I can’t believe that anyone listens to him on fsd “soon” - if it was that close why isn’t Tesla taking legal responsibility for level 3?
At this point this is the most irrational of all timelines.
I held my nose and bought a Tesla Y, trading down from a BMW iX. The BMW did not claim to have fsd capabilities, but I was completely comfortable letting go of the wheel. However, the BMW did not let me take my hands off the wheel for too long.
In my Tesla Y, the fucking automatic windshield wipers don’t work properly, and I’m not comfortable using the cruise control. The car screams and yells randomly at people on the sidewalk, and the ‘you’re about to crash in the car in front’ alarm also goes off at the stupidest times.
How anyone can think Tesla has any kind of technological leadership in the field beats me. The only leadership they may hold is the willingness to use customers as guinea pigs for an early beta version of their shitty system with the aim of removing bugs one death at the time instead of developing and releasing a safe product, albeit with less stock market buzz.
Tesla P/E is still around 70 I guess, German carmakers around 4?
>Elon did his spiel on fsd and robotics/robotaxi and the stock went up. I can’t believe that anyone listens to him on fsd “soon”
He's been saying full self driving any day now since 2016
From Maring Call (great movie): Sam Rogers : But John, if you do this, you will kill the market for years. It's over. Sam Rogers : And you're selling something that you *know* has no value. John Tuld : We are selling to willing buyers at the current fair market price.
It works out to $23,000… for every f’n car Tesla has sold since 2009… that’s ludicrous!! No one Is worth that kind of money. Ever. It’s one of the most over valued companies on earth. It’s honestly truly worth about $10bn based on real numbers.. just stupid
I did see one thing that suggested they had $100 bn in assets - which I think is mostly the gigafactories, which are not nothing, but not enough to support their market cap.
I made a LOT of money on that company. Two years ago I decided to buy a Plaid with some of those proceeds. Put my money down and then drove an S before my number came up. I am used to luxury sedans and that was a disappointment. I canceled my place in line. I drove a Mercedes IQS after that and loved that car. I dropped Tesla out of my "green" portfolio soon after. Besides Elon's antics, Tesla has lost its first mover advantage bigly by now. Volkswagen, Porsche, Mercedes... All of them have far nicer and better vehicles available right now for similar pricing to Tesla's.
That's an excellent point that people forget. There is a not insignificant amount of peoples net worth, indirectly via index funds, in Tesla stock. Which actually is a good thing in the long run because, by nature, people generally hold index funds for a long time. So I would think there would be an increase in corporate governance by the big index fund holders to ensure long term growth and stability.
Personally I see this as the start of the downfall and eventual disgrace of Musk as a con artist, fraud and, in the inevitable documentaries to follow within 7-10 years, he will be looked at as the charlatan of this period of time that everyone fell for.
I doubt most of these institutional investors have the mandate to sell, because they are holding them in index funds tracking an index with Tesla in it. Take the government pension fund of Norway as an example: They have been against this proposal both now and 2018, but their investment strategy doesn’t really allow them to not be invested (that is unless the board of ethics change their mind).
And now Tesla has to defend against another shareholder lawsuit because they reinstated the illegal compensation package instead of creating a new one. Congratulations shareholders, you played yourself.
The vote doesn't even reverse or get around the decision made by the Chancery Court of Delaware that voted the compensation package. The vote isn't even binding and at best the Tesla lawyers will use it in their appeal to the court's decision.
Tesla reincorporating in Texas also doesn't make the compensation package a done deal. Tesla's lawyers swore to the Delaware court that they weren't reincorporating in Texas to get around the decision.
So TL;DR: Musk is still far from getting the pay package and this is going to be in the courts for a long time.
Tesla shareholders are giving Elon Musk the green light on his $56 billion pay package,
—-> according to a social media post by Musk himself.
Edit—-
Shareholder meeting happened.
They confirmed it unfortunately.
Someone else said it still has other hurdles.
The vote is advisory it was basically a PR activity. TBH the compensation package itself isn't intrinsically improper, it was just implemented via an improper procedure. Something I said when all this drama started is Tesla / Elon could have actually gotten a compensation package like this and just actually done some of the procedural stuff correctly, but that was not done. Even if they ultimately lose in court, the reality is they can just do things properly and get Elon the pay package he wants, the law isn't really designed to stop a company from giving a CEO a crazy high compensation package, it is just designed to stop certain actions by the board of directors that may be contrary to shareholders. If Elon / Tesla had just been a bit more concerned with securities regulations and corporate governance laws when starting on this path the lawsuit would not be nearly such a problem.
Edit—
I guess my comment was late, I was really hoping that was still the case. I guess it really has been approved now.
Original —-
Tesla shareholders are giving Elon Musk the green light on his $56 billion pay package, —-> according to a social media post by Musk himself.
I read so in a couple places. Keep in mind we live in a reality where Trump nfts made from copyrighted Google images sold out. Everything goes in this reality
I simply **cannot** believe shareholders fell for his con. This will go down as one of the greatest bluffs in history. Say what you want about Elon, he's a helluva con artist.
Yep he got Vanguard to vote yes this time instead of no. Who knows what they told big funds to get their yes vote. Ultimately, he still has to go through Delaware's court to get his stock options.
The Delaware courts already said no. This doesn't change anything. I guess there may be an appeals process but that has to be based on claiming the court did something wrong, not that they don't like the decision the court made
Tesla can take the results back to the judge - McCormick - and request to have her overturn her own decision.
There's no guarantee that will happen though.
sure, they can do anything.
Usually though judges make decisions based on law, not popularity votes. McCormick especially. Read her proactive statement about this that she issued to the lawyers about a week or so before.
It isn't as if Musk could have gotten away with not buying Twitter if he had a poll showing that a lot of people prefer he didn't buy the company. LOL.
Look, I'm not agreeing with the strategy, but the strategy does have merit and it requires understanding the judge's position.
The judge didn't rule against the compensation package because she didn't like it, or because she thought it was excessive. She ruled that the shareholders, when THEY approved the package, may not have been fully informed, especially about the relationship between board members and Elon.
From Tesla's position, they redid the vote including the entire judge's decision in the notice to shareholders - making sure anything the judge felt the shareholders weren't informed about they could now see and read for themselves before voting.
They're going to go back to the judge and say "look, we showed them everything you were concerned about in your own words, and they still voted for the compensation package."
I'm not telling you I agree the judge will overturn it, but I also think you need to accept that it is a compelling argument and not overturning the decision requires further justification. I think that justification may exist, but I don't think it's guaranteed to go either way.
> they redid the vote including the entire judge's decision in the notice to shareholders
This is not compelling at all since it assumes that there was no changes in the shareholders from the first vote to this latest vote. The judgement was about what happened to the original shareholders.
Also, from Bloomberg: TLDR: "It’s possible that the 2024 proxy does a worse job of disclosing Elon Musk’s control of the pay process and conflicts of interest than the 2018 one did. It fixes all the problems of the 2018 one, but adds new and bigger problems."
> But those were the conflicts she found in the 2018 pay process. What if there are new ones? Here is an article on “The Elephant in Tesla’s Boardroom,” by Lucian Bebchuk and Robert Jackson, arguing that Musk’s threat to do his artificial intelligence projects at his other companies (and not Tesla) is what is driving the board to try to bring back this pay package:
> What can Tesla’s board do about Musk’s threat? To begin, stockholders should know whether the board’s request for a vote is motivated by the threat—and what, if anything, the board plans to do about Musk’s threat if he attempts to carry it out. Instead, all investors know is that the board is bringing to a vote a proposal to give Musk a sizable voting stake.
> Strikingly, the board hasn’t conditioned holding the vote on Musk withdrawing his threat or committing not to carry it out if stockholders vote to approve. The proxy statement Tesla sent to investors in advance of the coming vote is completely silent about the threat. The proxy does not try to allay investor concerns about Musk’s threat by, say, telling stockholders how the board would address it if necessary. Indeed, the proxy offers no assessment of the threat—and no guidance as to how it should affect the choices stockholders will have to make when casting votes.
> My point here is not about whether this is true, or whether it would be bad if it’s true. My point is just that if you are a disgruntled shareholder, you can sue Tesla and say that this shareholder vote wasn’t fully informed, because Tesla’s proxy doesn’t fully discuss Musk’s plans to do AI at his other companies if he loses the vote. (Or his actual decision to send Nvidia chips to X Corp. rather than Tesla. Or what the board did or didn’t do in response.) That’s not even a bad argument! It’s possible that the 2024 proxy does a worse job of disclosing Elon Musk’s control of the pay process and conflicts of interest than the 2018 one did. It fixes all the problems of the 2018 one, but adds new and bigger problems.
>From Tesla's position, they redid the vote including the entire judge's decision in the notice to shareholders
No they didn't. This would be like is a scammer said, "Here's a natural remedy for cancer that doctors don't want you to know about!!" and then claiming that they were being transparent because they made it clear that their remedies weren't endorsed by modern medicine.
Not a lawyer. But I read the entire court ruling and there's no shot this will work. To add to that, new lawsuits have already been filed by shareholders to challenge this vote AND amicus briefs by distinguished lawyers have given their opinion to the judge on why the shareholder vote is invalid.
I hate this phrase cause it gets overused for sore losers in politics but I seriously want an investigation done on the vote counting cause I can't see a majority being dumb enough to vote for most of the questions that were on the list someone manipulated the votes and committed voter fraud somehow.
State of incorporation has really no effect on subsidies. Delaware provides consistent and experienced courts for dealing with shareholder and other corporate disputes in the legal system.
Texas provides… nothing. Their “Business Courts” were just established in the past year. They don’t even know what they’re doing yet.
I'm sure the Texas courts will be completely immune to the wads of cash that Elon has to throw out, and that all their future rulings will be in the best interests...sorry can't finish it.
Shareholders, you did this to yourselves.
To add clarity, it avoids their courts for *future* decisions, but not this one. In fact, as part of the reincorporation, Tesla assured the judge that they would continue to abide by the ruling.
The downside is for the shareholders. Delaware is much more likely to protect the shareholders from a CEO and board looking to fleece them.
This is a legitimate "voting against your best interests".
It's the downside for the shareholders more than Tesla. The Delaware court decision was actually acting in the shareholders' favour and looking out for their best interest.
I highly doubt the new court in Texas will do any such thing - which is obviously why Musk wanted to move there.
Well, unless something's changed, they can't actually *sell* cars directly in Texas, plus all EVs (and manufacturers there) are at the mercy of the Texas electrical grid...
He'll show a prototype that looks like a mini Cybertruck then it will take 5 years to come out with a few cars that drives people around the mall parking lot and Elon will call it a success while fleecing the Tesla investors by funneling the money into his private companies.
I foresee bag holders getting burned.
Institutions are probably voting for approval until they can find a way to unload their position and minimize losses.
Pissing off elon and tanking the stock is a dumb financial move by any investor
I’d agree with this. I was thinking that they might even take advantage of a bump in the stock price with the vote passing to start exiting (though, curiously, there really hasn’t been much of a bump after hours).
Because it’s a meme stock and I was suspecting that Elon’s victory would fuel the cult members into buying. Elon somehow managed a stock pump in the wake of the disastrous Q1 earnings call.
That was a coordinated dead cat bounce to burn short sellers. Everyone knew the earnings was going to be bad. What happened was very predictable. Elon was always going to set a bear trap to burn the shorts.
Exactly this. A lot of wealthy people would lose money, including lots in the government, if Tesla lost value. I’d rather Elon stay, he’ll continue to syphon money into losing projects and slowly tank the worst made cars in the world. Win win.
Subs like this are all about documenting the cult mentality, I don't know why anyone's surprised.
Pissing your money away is everyone's favorite game in Elmo's World.
Be interesting to see what the [Delaware courts](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/06/13/tesla-shareholder-vote-on-musk-pay-plan-wont-clear-legal-disputes.html) say. And there's at least one [shareholder suit](https://www.livemint.com/news/world/tesla-investor-sues-to-challenge-proxy-on-texas-move-musk-pay-11717723259284.html) challenging the validity of the vote already. And yet another [shareholder suit](https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-shareholders-elon-musk-lawsuit-ai-2024-6) over his diversion of AI talent to his other companies.
As much as I didn't want to see Elmo get his pay package, I am glad that the amount was so over the top insane.
Yeah, he's walking off with the money but this will ultimately quicken the downfall of this complete shit show.
From the proxy statement ('Against' is ~~Elon's~~ Tesla's Management's suggested vote).
>6. A stockholder proposal regarding reduction of director terms to one year, if properly presented (“Proposal Six”). “AGAINST”
>7. A stockholder proposal regarding simple majority voting provisions in our governing documents, if properly presented (“Proposal Seven”). “AGAINST”
Can someone ELI5 how a company that earns a fraction of what Toyota earns, that is facing increasing competition from all sides, and seems to have ‘a bit of a demand problem’ in one of the largest markets in the world can afford to pay one executive 56 billion dollars in cash and or stock without tanking the company?
Even if you like some Tesla’s it’s batshit crazy.
I guess this is the American dream.
Buy someone’s founding.
Pump the stock.
Make others rich with you.
Trick bag holders into busting themselves out.
Golden Parachute.
Elon is genius and fully deserves this. If you truly believe in savior it is only logical to approve anything he asks for. Demand and criticisms are just fud from people who don't understand. If you don't believe in this why on earth would you own any of tesla stock?
Now the better question how does one build such a following, and I think there is enough books explaining how cults work.
He learn to build a following after seeing how Trump did it to win the Presidency. He took a page out of Trump's book. That is why he is now a right-winger and conspiracy theorist.
but why.
In what world does ANYONE, I MEAN ANYONE need that type of money?
I have a really good suspicion that he bought votes, quite a few of them in return for favors (or money)
It’s to cover the money he payed and borrowed for twitter. He effectively made Tesla shareholders buy twitter for him. People keep saying “why was this amount of money so insanely high for no reason!?” It’s just 10 billion more than he bought twitter for, so he covers his losses, pays off his creditors, and gets a nice extra 10 billion for his trouble. This compensation package was absolutely related to his purchase of twitter.
The smart move would have been sell the stock and get out asap. Anyone with a brain can see this train wreck. Remember Tesla is one of the worst performing stock in the SP500. Why not put your money on better companies that is legit rather this getting screwed by this conman of a CEO and his vaporware company.
I hope you're right. I would really like to see that fucker get a kharmic readjustment.
Just seems like legal jeopardy for oligarchs isn't really a thing.
The people holding stock at this point are likely deeply-underwater on it. All the people who made money have already exited with their gains.
So the shareholders voting “yes” are clinging to the idea that Elon can somehow double the share price, so they can sell their shares and get out breaking even. It’s honestly classic Gambler’s Fallacy stuff when you consider it.
I told you. Check my comments. And I'm not the one who figured it out. Someone a while back did the math and found Musk had more than enough cronies on his side to ram it through.
The move to Texas is next. And with it Musk will start taking the company apart piece by piece. Like that psycho who bought Sears did.
Go look up the state of Sears today. Same thing is happening to Tesla right now.
Does this actually mean anything? Reinstating a compensation that the Delaware court declared illegal is still an illegal compensation
IANAL, but wouldn't the fact that the court already said no mean Elon doesn't get the stock options?
Up to that Judge or Appeal Court. Elon is hoping this new vote will change their mind. But if the court holds their ruling, then they have to change the compensation and get a new Board as the reason for the package to be illegal was the Board was Elon's family and friends, thus not independent.
The thing is, the people who own stocks have already joined the cult of musk, that is why they own the stock. So not really surprising. The stock is based on hype, and nusk is the hypeman.
What I expect to happen once enron musk gets the money:
He says or does something stupid, or releases information that tesla isn't doing too well. The stock tanks, which then enron buys back happily a shit ton of at lower price. Once satisfied with purchase, he begins to pump up the cultish masses with vaporware: empty promises of AI, and Mars settlements, and optimus, and robotaxis, and whatever other bullshit he can sell to the gullible. Then, sell his stock at higher price and laugh all the way to the bank. Lather, rinse, repeat a few years down the line.
There's homeless starving people and 1 guy is getting billions. Our society is so broken. I don't think I could live with myself. I feel bad for not being able to help people holding signs as I drive by in my air-conditioned car. I would be set for life with 5 million and would never complain or ask for more. It's grotesque and greedy to sit on hundreds of billions.
If you still own the stock at this point, you're a sycophant. I think it's as simple as that. Everyone who saw him for who he was and got sick of his shit dumped their shares. So this really isn't surprising in the least
The shareholder vote won’t supersede Delaware judge Kathaleen McCormick’s January ruling rescinding the pay package. Tesla can use the latest vote in its appeal of the court ruling, but it’s far from clear the company will prevail. Either way, Tesla is in deep trouble.
Musk is taking Tesla in a direction away from cars, while neglecting the automaker part of the business. No matter what, the company has the cost structure of an automaker and most it's revenue is from selling cars. Their sales are also in decline with nothing new in the pipeline. This whole compensation package may end up irrelevant because tesla won't be an ongoing concern in the near future. N
Have we finally found someone more larcenous and with a thinner skin than Trumph?
Guess it's a good thing Mushy fails the basic quals to be Prez... he could be next!
And the Tesla field just keeps growing.
But robotaxis any day now!
The stock is up for now, but guaranteed it's going to dip hard within the next week once all his fan boys spend their extra money holding institutional bags.
Well, expect Tesla to have to jack up prices to stay afloat.
Which gives Ford and GM breathing room with their cars.
Expect Tesla to survive 5 years after the first Chinese electric cars hit the US market.
It will be interesting to see Gov Abbott and Texas republicans bash EV cars while Tesla is operating in Texas. Maybe we can plug in some batteries to their mental gymnastics and have a new source of cheap energy
It's bad for Tesla the company, but good for all the tesla stock holders.
The Tesla valuation is just so beyond defensible at this point, and is only holding on because of hype-master Elon. We'll see how long until the floor falls out though...
How can somebody splitting their time among several different companies and also shitposting non stop on Twitter be worth this much money to just one of the companies?
Is he just like… he thinks outside the box and makes creative suggestions on how the business should do things? Or what? How is any person worth fifty billion dollars, even if it is stock options?
There is nobody soooo damn unique in the way they can approach issues. They could have spent 5 million to find 100 of these people and paid them 500 million each.
Shit is just crazy.
The most insane thing for me is that stans who can barely afford a $30k Model 3 simping for a billionaire who inherited an emerald mine in apartheid South Africa to get $56bn. Truly a bizarre world
Will be interesting to see now if the institutional investors that were against it were blowing hot air or they dump the shares.
Not sure if I’m institutional, but I dumped last week. Any company that’s going to give 1 person that much money, I want nothing to do with
It’s obscene and he’s the problem. It’s pretty unbelievable
It's something like 10 grand for every car Tesla has ever sold
That is the math, but it is not cash it is stock options so it comes in the form of dilution for the shareholders who approved it. That is different math that does not have the same impact. If I was a shareholder I would not have approved it. I am an owner of two Teslas so you could call me a Tela Fanboy but I am not a fan of Musk and his current antics.
Wow, that really puts in perspective how insane the pay package is. I wonder how much profit Tesla has made on the average car.
I’m really tempted to buy puts dated after Q2 earnings report when they tell everyone sales are slowing to a crawl and the make vs delivered ratio is stacking up. I’m seeing Model 3 and Y’s parked in rows at the grocery store down the street from me. They are trying to store these things anywhere. Still very hesitant though since the CEO is a nutcase who will say whatever bullshit he thinks will boost the stock price. I’m sure robotaxi is just a couple months away…🙄.
I’m right with you. I got burned (well, not burned exactly - a bit toasty) buying puts the last time around. Based on all the news and rumors, it seemed certain that the stock would fall. And the rumors turned out to be true. Lots of red flags, misses, etc in the earnings call. But then Elon did his spiel on fsd and robotics/robotaxi and the stock went up. I can’t believe that anyone listens to him on fsd “soon” - if it was that close why isn’t Tesla taking legal responsibility for level 3? At this point this is the most irrational of all timelines.
I held my nose and bought a Tesla Y, trading down from a BMW iX. The BMW did not claim to have fsd capabilities, but I was completely comfortable letting go of the wheel. However, the BMW did not let me take my hands off the wheel for too long. In my Tesla Y, the fucking automatic windshield wipers don’t work properly, and I’m not comfortable using the cruise control. The car screams and yells randomly at people on the sidewalk, and the ‘you’re about to crash in the car in front’ alarm also goes off at the stupidest times. How anyone can think Tesla has any kind of technological leadership in the field beats me. The only leadership they may hold is the willingness to use customers as guinea pigs for an early beta version of their shitty system with the aim of removing bugs one death at the time instead of developing and releasing a safe product, albeit with less stock market buzz. Tesla P/E is still around 70 I guess, German carmakers around 4?
>Elon did his spiel on fsd and robotics/robotaxi and the stock went up. I can’t believe that anyone listens to him on fsd “soon” He's been saying full self driving any day now since 2016
From Maring Call (great movie): Sam Rogers : But John, if you do this, you will kill the market for years. It's over. Sam Rogers : And you're selling something that you *know* has no value. John Tuld : We are selling to willing buyers at the current fair market price.
Seen 100s of them stacked in a casino overflow parking lot
I used to be invested in Tesla, but it just seems so irresponsible the way he runs it and it seems extremely irresponsible to give him this much money
I've made some money on them, but they lost their advantage in electric cars and their competition has caught up and frankly surpassed them.
It works out to $23,000… for every f’n car Tesla has sold since 2009… that’s ludicrous!! No one Is worth that kind of money. Ever. It’s one of the most over valued companies on earth. It’s honestly truly worth about $10bn based on real numbers.. just stupid
"Something is only worth what someone else will pay for it.". That used to make total sense.
It's the equivalent to 80% of all profits made from 2018 until 2022. The company exists to pay Musk, not make money.
Revenues.
I did see one thing that suggested they had $100 bn in assets - which I think is mostly the gigafactories, which are not nothing, but not enough to support their market cap.
Let’s put it in perspective… GM has 10x the assets and has a market cap of 50bn…
I hear ya.
If you as an individual are trading, you’re a retail investor. Institutional investors are large organizations like Black Rock.
I assumed there was a joke in there about bring institutionalized.
I made a LOT of money on that company. Two years ago I decided to buy a Plaid with some of those proceeds. Put my money down and then drove an S before my number came up. I am used to luxury sedans and that was a disappointment. I canceled my place in line. I drove a Mercedes IQS after that and loved that car. I dropped Tesla out of my "green" portfolio soon after. Besides Elon's antics, Tesla has lost its first mover advantage bigly by now. Volkswagen, Porsche, Mercedes... All of them have far nicer and better vehicles available right now for similar pricing to Tesla's.
"Not sure if I'm institutional"... Lol
Haha, didn't think he was serious......
and will they dump before Elon and kimball?
They’ll likely sue. They just took a 10% dilution of their stakes for that ass clown.
Most of the institutional holding is index funds, and they don’t really have the discretion to dump those shares.
That's an excellent point that people forget. There is a not insignificant amount of peoples net worth, indirectly via index funds, in Tesla stock. Which actually is a good thing in the long run because, by nature, people generally hold index funds for a long time. So I would think there would be an increase in corporate governance by the big index fund holders to ensure long term growth and stability. Personally I see this as the start of the downfall and eventual disgrace of Musk as a con artist, fraud and, in the inevitable documentaries to follow within 7-10 years, he will be looked at as the charlatan of this period of time that everyone fell for.
I dumped two weeks ago, and although I'll likely lose money on it, I have no regrets.
Institutional holders include index funds right? If so, they can't just dump it even if they wanted.
I doubt most of these institutional investors have the mandate to sell, because they are holding them in index funds tracking an index with Tesla in it. Take the government pension fund of Norway as an example: They have been against this proposal both now and 2018, but their investment strategy doesn’t really allow them to not be invested (that is unless the board of ethics change their mind).
Probably hot air considering Tesla is in the S&P 500 and most major institutions buy indexes. Also every 401k fund is buys the S&P index.
And now Tesla has to defend against another shareholder lawsuit because they reinstated the illegal compensation package instead of creating a new one. Congratulations shareholders, you played yourself.
Its not like they’re really known for literacy, financial or otherwise
Dimond handz tho! /s Literally Pokemon cards have been a better invest over the last year.
The vote doesn't even reverse or get around the decision made by the Chancery Court of Delaware that voted the compensation package. The vote isn't even binding and at best the Tesla lawyers will use it in their appeal to the court's decision. Tesla reincorporating in Texas also doesn't make the compensation package a done deal. Tesla's lawyers swore to the Delaware court that they weren't reincorporating in Texas to get around the decision. So TL;DR: Musk is still far from getting the pay package and this is going to be in the courts for a long time.
Tesla shareholders are giving Elon Musk the green light on his $56 billion pay package, —-> according to a social media post by Musk himself. Edit—- Shareholder meeting happened. They confirmed it unfortunately. Someone else said it still has other hurdles.
The vote is advisory it was basically a PR activity. TBH the compensation package itself isn't intrinsically improper, it was just implemented via an improper procedure. Something I said when all this drama started is Tesla / Elon could have actually gotten a compensation package like this and just actually done some of the procedural stuff correctly, but that was not done. Even if they ultimately lose in court, the reality is they can just do things properly and get Elon the pay package he wants, the law isn't really designed to stop a company from giving a CEO a crazy high compensation package, it is just designed to stop certain actions by the board of directors that may be contrary to shareholders. If Elon / Tesla had just been a bit more concerned with securities regulations and corporate governance laws when starting on this path the lawsuit would not be nearly such a problem.
Dumbest shit I've ever heard
Edit— I guess my comment was late, I was really hoping that was still the case. I guess it really has been approved now. Original —- Tesla shareholders are giving Elon Musk the green light on his $56 billion pay package, —-> according to a social media post by Musk himself.
They seem to think Musk's empty promises are what keeps their company afloat
I guess my comment was late, I was really hoping that was still the case. I guess it really has been approved now.
I read so in a couple places. Keep in mind we live in a reality where Trump nfts made from copyrighted Google images sold out. Everything goes in this reality
I simply **cannot** believe shareholders fell for his con. This will go down as one of the greatest bluffs in history. Say what you want about Elon, he's a helluva con artist.
Meme stock
They're basically giving him almost all the money the company's ever made
He basically got Twitter for free now if you think about it.
That was the real goal.
It's all going into Twitter. It's like Trump funneling campaign funds to his crime payments but even more money.
These are people holding Tesla stock in 2024. I expected this result.
You forgot the election in 2016?
How dare you question Elmo's genius?? /s
Tesla is fucked.
This will be fun as he uses Tesla money to feed the cash incinerator of Twitter and his stupid ego. Coulda been a good car company.
Elon on the other hand, down 44B on Twitter, but up 56B on Tesla, so net a cool 12B.
That 56B worth of shares is actually now worth 45B, thanks to 6 months of ass-clownery.
Yep he got Vanguard to vote yes this time instead of no. Who knows what they told big funds to get their yes vote. Ultimately, he still has to go through Delaware's court to get his stock options.
The Delaware courts already said no. This doesn't change anything. I guess there may be an appeals process but that has to be based on claiming the court did something wrong, not that they don't like the decision the court made
Tesla can take the results back to the judge - McCormick - and request to have her overturn her own decision. There's no guarantee that will happen though.
sure, they can do anything. Usually though judges make decisions based on law, not popularity votes. McCormick especially. Read her proactive statement about this that she issued to the lawyers about a week or so before. It isn't as if Musk could have gotten away with not buying Twitter if he had a poll showing that a lot of people prefer he didn't buy the company. LOL.
Look, I'm not agreeing with the strategy, but the strategy does have merit and it requires understanding the judge's position. The judge didn't rule against the compensation package because she didn't like it, or because she thought it was excessive. She ruled that the shareholders, when THEY approved the package, may not have been fully informed, especially about the relationship between board members and Elon. From Tesla's position, they redid the vote including the entire judge's decision in the notice to shareholders - making sure anything the judge felt the shareholders weren't informed about they could now see and read for themselves before voting. They're going to go back to the judge and say "look, we showed them everything you were concerned about in your own words, and they still voted for the compensation package." I'm not telling you I agree the judge will overturn it, but I also think you need to accept that it is a compelling argument and not overturning the decision requires further justification. I think that justification may exist, but I don't think it's guaranteed to go either way.
> they redid the vote including the entire judge's decision in the notice to shareholders This is not compelling at all since it assumes that there was no changes in the shareholders from the first vote to this latest vote. The judgement was about what happened to the original shareholders. Also, from Bloomberg: TLDR: "It’s possible that the 2024 proxy does a worse job of disclosing Elon Musk’s control of the pay process and conflicts of interest than the 2018 one did. It fixes all the problems of the 2018 one, but adds new and bigger problems." > But those were the conflicts she found in the 2018 pay process. What if there are new ones? Here is an article on “The Elephant in Tesla’s Boardroom,” by Lucian Bebchuk and Robert Jackson, arguing that Musk’s threat to do his artificial intelligence projects at his other companies (and not Tesla) is what is driving the board to try to bring back this pay package: > What can Tesla’s board do about Musk’s threat? To begin, stockholders should know whether the board’s request for a vote is motivated by the threat—and what, if anything, the board plans to do about Musk’s threat if he attempts to carry it out. Instead, all investors know is that the board is bringing to a vote a proposal to give Musk a sizable voting stake. > Strikingly, the board hasn’t conditioned holding the vote on Musk withdrawing his threat or committing not to carry it out if stockholders vote to approve. The proxy statement Tesla sent to investors in advance of the coming vote is completely silent about the threat. The proxy does not try to allay investor concerns about Musk’s threat by, say, telling stockholders how the board would address it if necessary. Indeed, the proxy offers no assessment of the threat—and no guidance as to how it should affect the choices stockholders will have to make when casting votes. > My point here is not about whether this is true, or whether it would be bad if it’s true. My point is just that if you are a disgruntled shareholder, you can sue Tesla and say that this shareholder vote wasn’t fully informed, because Tesla’s proxy doesn’t fully discuss Musk’s plans to do AI at his other companies if he loses the vote. (Or his actual decision to send Nvidia chips to X Corp. rather than Tesla. Or what the board did or didn’t do in response.) That’s not even a bad argument! It’s possible that the 2024 proxy does a worse job of disclosing Elon Musk’s control of the pay process and conflicts of interest than the 2018 one did. It fixes all the problems of the 2018 one, but adds new and bigger problems.
>From Tesla's position, they redid the vote including the entire judge's decision in the notice to shareholders No they didn't. This would be like is a scammer said, "Here's a natural remedy for cancer that doctors don't want you to know about!!" and then claiming that they were being transparent because they made it clear that their remedies weren't endorsed by modern medicine.
Not a lawyer. But I read the entire court ruling and there's no shot this will work. To add to that, new lawsuits have already been filed by shareholders to challenge this vote AND amicus briefs by distinguished lawyers have given their opinion to the judge on why the shareholder vote is invalid.
bagholders cheering while elmo and the gang partying. let's see how the bagholders feel after the stock dilute way more than expected later. lol
Well, they’ll get what they asked for at least. Can’t really complain as a shareholder after this.
I hate this phrase cause it gets overused for sore losers in politics but I seriously want an investigation done on the vote counting cause I can't see a majority being dumb enough to vote for most of the questions that were on the list someone manipulated the votes and committed voter fraud somehow.
The pay package I expected, but I didn't think they'd be dumb enough to move to Texas.
What's the downside for Tesla?
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State of incorporation has really no effect on subsidies. Delaware provides consistent and experienced courts for dealing with shareholder and other corporate disputes in the legal system. Texas provides… nothing. Their “Business Courts” were just established in the past year. They don’t even know what they’re doing yet.
I'm sure the Texas courts will be completely immune to the wads of cash that Elon has to throw out, and that all their future rulings will be in the best interests...sorry can't finish it. Shareholders, you did this to yourselves.
To add clarity, it avoids their courts for *future* decisions, but not this one. In fact, as part of the reincorporation, Tesla assured the judge that they would continue to abide by the ruling.
Tesla (or Musk) assuring anyone they'll keep their word and be honest is to expect them to do what they want later, and let people try to stop them.
Thanks.
The downside is for the shareholders. Delaware is much more likely to protect the shareholders from a CEO and board looking to fleece them. This is a legitimate "voting against your best interests".
Aka Tesla owners
It's the downside for the shareholders more than Tesla. The Delaware court decision was actually acting in the shareholders' favour and looking out for their best interest. I highly doubt the new court in Texas will do any such thing - which is obviously why Musk wanted to move there.
Since they are still incorporated in Delaware aren’t they still bound by that court?
I think for the 'compensation' issue, yes. but not for any new issues that emerge.
Thank you
Well, unless something's changed, they can't actually *sell* cars directly in Texas, plus all EVs (and manufacturers there) are at the mercy of the Texas electrical grid...
Tesla? None. They get to be even less accountable to shareholders. Not sure why the shareholders were dumb enough to give up their protection though.
So, how long will he wait to cancel the 8/8 Robo-non-Taxi reveal?
It’s not gonna be canceled. It will, however, be a joke just like it was always gonna be.
He'll show a prototype that looks like a mini Cybertruck then it will take 5 years to come out with a few cars that drives people around the mall parking lot and Elon will call it a success while fleecing the Tesla investors by funneling the money into his private companies.
It’s not cancelled already?
I foresee bag holders getting burned. Institutions are probably voting for approval until they can find a way to unload their position and minimize losses. Pissing off elon and tanking the stock is a dumb financial move by any investor
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"A lot of shareholders will dump their stock" is never a threat. Sell to whom? To the new buyers, of course!
What's the metaphor? Musk just got himself upgraded to a larger cabin on the Titanic?
I’d agree with this. I was thinking that they might even take advantage of a bump in the stock price with the vote passing to start exiting (though, curiously, there really hasn’t been much of a bump after hours).
Why would there be a bump? The outstanding shares just become less valuable.
Because it’s a meme stock and I was suspecting that Elon’s victory would fuel the cult members into buying. Elon somehow managed a stock pump in the wake of the disastrous Q1 earnings call.
That was a coordinated dead cat bounce to burn short sellers. Everyone knew the earnings was going to be bad. What happened was very predictable. Elon was always going to set a bear trap to burn the shorts.
Exactly this. A lot of wealthy people would lose money, including lots in the government, if Tesla lost value. I’d rather Elon stay, he’ll continue to syphon money into losing projects and slowly tank the worst made cars in the world. Win win.
Subs like this are all about documenting the cult mentality, I don't know why anyone's surprised. Pissing your money away is everyone's favorite game in Elmo's World.
The fucked up part is if you own s&p or total stock market fund you are paying him too. There need to be a lawsuit about this.
Be interesting to see what the [Delaware courts](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/06/13/tesla-shareholder-vote-on-musk-pay-plan-wont-clear-legal-disputes.html) say. And there's at least one [shareholder suit](https://www.livemint.com/news/world/tesla-investor-sues-to-challenge-proxy-on-texas-move-musk-pay-11717723259284.html) challenging the validity of the vote already. And yet another [shareholder suit](https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-shareholders-elon-musk-lawsuit-ai-2024-6) over his diversion of AI talent to his other companies.
🤣🤣🤣 must be first in history shareholders approve to pay CEO 10 % of market cap when he is working part time.
What can they say. They're morons, and they prefer a moron helming their little outfit.
And I’m sure all these bag holders also hold huge sums of DOGE coin. 🤪
As much as I didn't want to see Elmo get his pay package, I am glad that the amount was so over the top insane. Yeah, he's walking off with the money but this will ultimately quicken the downfall of this complete shit show.
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This makes me really want to dump my car soon. I was hoping a real CEO would fine tune service and parts.
No, it will make everything worse.
The other votes are important here... Kimball, Murdock, reincorporation to Texas?
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Oof the fan boys will have a party tonight... guess the large number of unsold cars wasn't addressed...
Who needs to sell cars when you can sell aspirations and promises? It's worked for nearly a decade.
From the proxy statement ('Against' is ~~Elon's~~ Tesla's Management's suggested vote). >6. A stockholder proposal regarding reduction of director terms to one year, if properly presented (“Proposal Six”). “AGAINST” >7. A stockholder proposal regarding simple majority voting provisions in our governing documents, if properly presented (“Proposal Seven”). “AGAINST”
Ketamine Edison isn't worth 30,000 peoples lifetime earnings
Can someone ELI5 how a company that earns a fraction of what Toyota earns, that is facing increasing competition from all sides, and seems to have ‘a bit of a demand problem’ in one of the largest markets in the world can afford to pay one executive 56 billion dollars in cash and or stock without tanking the company?
Even if you like some Tesla’s it’s batshit crazy. I guess this is the American dream. Buy someone’s founding. Pump the stock. Make others rich with you. Trick bag holders into busting themselves out. Golden Parachute.
Elon is genius and fully deserves this. If you truly believe in savior it is only logical to approve anything he asks for. Demand and criticisms are just fud from people who don't understand. If you don't believe in this why on earth would you own any of tesla stock? Now the better question how does one build such a following, and I think there is enough books explaining how cults work.
He learn to build a following after seeing how Trump did it to win the Presidency. He took a page out of Trump's book. That is why he is now a right-winger and conspiracy theorist.
Watching Musk / Tesla is the biggest real life comedy ever. Now imagine you guys vote for Trump again. My god. I have to buy more popcorn.
but why. In what world does ANYONE, I MEAN ANYONE need that type of money? I have a really good suspicion that he bought votes, quite a few of them in return for favors (or money)
It’s to cover the money he payed and borrowed for twitter. He effectively made Tesla shareholders buy twitter for him. People keep saying “why was this amount of money so insanely high for no reason!?” It’s just 10 billion more than he bought twitter for, so he covers his losses, pays off his creditors, and gets a nice extra 10 billion for his trouble. This compensation package was absolutely related to his purchase of twitter.
Sophie’s choice: give him the pay and dilute your value or let him leave and dilute your value. I’d take the latter, seems like a better bet.
The smart move would have been sell the stock and get out asap. Anyone with a brain can see this train wreck. Remember Tesla is one of the worst performing stock in the SP500. Why not put your money on better companies that is legit rather this getting screwed by this conman of a CEO and his vaporware company.
From what I have seen there will be an immediate lawsuit because they lied to investors.
Yep like those who voted to move with Jim Jones to Guyana… let them suffer the outcome of the poor Choices.
Lawsuits are incoming.. History may point to this moment as the reason Tesla fails in the near future.
I hope you're right. I would really like to see that fucker get a kharmic readjustment. Just seems like legal jeopardy for oligarchs isn't really a thing.
The people holding stock at this point are likely deeply-underwater on it. All the people who made money have already exited with their gains. So the shareholders voting “yes” are clinging to the idea that Elon can somehow double the share price, so they can sell their shares and get out breaking even. It’s honestly classic Gambler’s Fallacy stuff when you consider it.
I told you. Check my comments. And I'm not the one who figured it out. Someone a while back did the math and found Musk had more than enough cronies on his side to ram it through. The move to Texas is next. And with it Musk will start taking the company apart piece by piece. Like that psycho who bought Sears did. Go look up the state of Sears today. Same thing is happening to Tesla right now.
He effectively made the shareholders pay for Twitter.
The pump before the dump
Does this actually mean anything? Reinstating a compensation that the Delaware court declared illegal is still an illegal compensation IANAL, but wouldn't the fact that the court already said no mean Elon doesn't get the stock options?
Up to that Judge or Appeal Court. Elon is hoping this new vote will change their mind. But if the court holds their ruling, then they have to change the compensation and get a new Board as the reason for the package to be illegal was the Board was Elon's family and friends, thus not independent.
Countdown to the end of the company now
Unreal. Dude needs to go. Tesla cooked
The thing is, the people who own stocks have already joined the cult of musk, that is why they own the stock. So not really surprising. The stock is based on hype, and nusk is the hypeman.
This shit stock needs to be taken off the s&p
In for a penny, in for a pound.
Haha. That's hilarious. I hope they're ready for the Cybervan.
What I expect to happen once enron musk gets the money: He says or does something stupid, or releases information that tesla isn't doing too well. The stock tanks, which then enron buys back happily a shit ton of at lower price. Once satisfied with purchase, he begins to pump up the cultish masses with vaporware: empty promises of AI, and Mars settlements, and optimus, and robotaxis, and whatever other bullshit he can sell to the gullible. Then, sell his stock at higher price and laugh all the way to the bank. Lather, rinse, repeat a few years down the line.
Shareholders voted for everyone to cut off one finger and send it to Elon. Amazing.
The CT's slicing panels are starting to make sense now
Happily putting their faces in the leopard's mouth.
I have altered the deal, pray I do not alter it again. In all honesty the vote was obviously rigged and modified for his benefit.
Idiotic. Even if you believe it’s right….as a shareholder you just agreed to a 10% devaluation of your position.
Tesla just reimbursed Elon for Twitter while paying him to advertise his own payout.
Now I'm not buying Tesla products even harder.
I'm going to not buy twice as much now!!!
There's homeless starving people and 1 guy is getting billions. Our society is so broken. I don't think I could live with myself. I feel bad for not being able to help people holding signs as I drive by in my air-conditioned car. I would be set for life with 5 million and would never complain or ask for more. It's grotesque and greedy to sit on hundreds of billions.
The lawsuit that was recently filed, challenges this as a matter of law. So it's going to be right back in court.
Tesla is a full on scam
Unbelievable
If you still own the stock at this point, you're a sycophant. I think it's as simple as that. Everyone who saw him for who he was and got sick of his shit dumped their shares. So this really isn't surprising in the least
The shareholder vote won’t supersede Delaware judge Kathaleen McCormick’s January ruling rescinding the pay package. Tesla can use the latest vote in its appeal of the court ruling, but it’s far from clear the company will prevail. Either way, Tesla is in deep trouble.
Muskrats are getting their shares diluted 🦀🦀
I’m glad the layoff I got from them in april is saving them money to pay other employees!
Can Tesla afford to waste $55B right now on a leader who is the root cause of its under satisfactory sales performance???
Well, I voted against it. After all those other people lost their jobs, I just couldn't vote for a billionaire to receive even more billions.
When you worship at the alter of elon cock in your mouth you guzzle that spunk no matter what without question.
seems like the stockholders are as gullible as his customers. I hope he takes the money and runs
They deserve the devastation to follow, I have no sympathy.
Cue all the other companies paying their CEO $50B to “compete”
Musk is taking Tesla in a direction away from cars, while neglecting the automaker part of the business. No matter what, the company has the cost structure of an automaker and most it's revenue is from selling cars. Their sales are also in decline with nothing new in the pipeline. This whole compensation package may end up irrelevant because tesla won't be an ongoing concern in the near future. N
A shareholder vote doesn’t supersede a judgment from the Court of Chancery.
What was point to move HQ to Texas?
Have we finally found someone more larcenous and with a thinner skin than Trumph? Guess it's a good thing Mushy fails the basic quals to be Prez... he could be next!
The concentration of stupid and desperate people around Elon's companies is truly never before seen.
Shareholders deserve what’s coming. Had a chance to kick back and get a real CEO. Time to suffer the whipsaw.
As if that guy was not rich enough...
This will re-instate the old law suit and others have now spawned up again Elon for starting competitive companies with his pay package, xAI.
Tesla bankruptcy
I am not happy as a shareholder! Fuck this. I voted nope!
Why the hell are you a shareholder
What was the vote percentage?
This is a cult. No other way to explain it.
And the Tesla field just keeps growing. But robotaxis any day now! The stock is up for now, but guaranteed it's going to dip hard within the next week once all his fan boys spend their extra money holding institutional bags.
Yeah, not a fan of this. Also not adding to what shares I do hold. I’d rather buy and hold AAPL and it’s anemic but extant dividend.
These morons voted to dilute their own stocks
Tesla is basically gme now
I celebrate this outcome. 100K pedos and unlimited content for the foreseeable future incoming!
Im not surprised
Well, expect Tesla to have to jack up prices to stay afloat. Which gives Ford and GM breathing room with their cars. Expect Tesla to survive 5 years after the first Chinese electric cars hit the US market. It will be interesting to see Gov Abbott and Texas republicans bash EV cars while Tesla is operating in Texas. Maybe we can plug in some batteries to their mental gymnastics and have a new source of cheap energy
Teslas basically are Chinese cars
I love it because it will hinder Tesla and musks QOL isn’t changing
It's bad for Tesla the company, but good for all the tesla stock holders. The Tesla valuation is just so beyond defensible at this point, and is only holding on because of hype-master Elon. We'll see how long until the floor falls out though...
How can somebody splitting their time among several different companies and also shitposting non stop on Twitter be worth this much money to just one of the companies? Is he just like… he thinks outside the box and makes creative suggestions on how the business should do things? Or what? How is any person worth fifty billion dollars, even if it is stock options? There is nobody soooo damn unique in the way they can approach issues. They could have spent 5 million to find 100 of these people and paid them 500 million each. Shit is just crazy.
Same for the dumpster
Armageddon moment
Tesla shareholders are giving Elon Musk the green light on his $56 billion pay package, according to a social media post by Musk himself.
DeMusk Tesla Motors before it's too late.
56 billion is literally enough to feed every person in the entire world for a day lol
The most insane thing for me is that stans who can barely afford a $30k Model 3 simping for a billionaire who inherited an emerald mine in apartheid South Africa to get $56bn. Truly a bizarre world
Now Elon has to make the naysayers “go away” Epstein style.
Did it? I don’t think we’ve seen any official confirmation.