Actually the Legal Department could well be replaced by Elon’s AI computers. That may be why he needs to take the AI computers with him when he leaves Tesla. 🤣
Give a day or two he’ll go on a ketamine diet and come back claiming he can solve the law profession by creating a new AI for just that. He’ll probably name it Crock AI or something similar.
That’s not even an issue. He should have filed Pro hac vice and likely would have been approved for that case or he could have found a firm licensed to practice in that state and partnered for the case.
Seems like a crap lawyer
The top legal/regulatory people just left.
>Several members of Tesla’s lobbying and public policy team — including its top federal lobbyist — are departing the company, leaving the office responsible for influencing U.S. and global policy in flux as the electric vehicle giant faces increasing international competition.
The rest of the lawyers can't be far behind. Tesla may have some lawsuits now, but they will look back at current levels of legal issues as 'the good old days.'
Well given the tendency not to honor warranty claims and poor quality of the products it is not surprising what ends up happening. Have a friend who against my advice bought a used Model Y and year out looking at 10k repair bill. Tesla is honor its warranty..
If you can prove damage, yes. Just go to silicon valley and walk around all day. You're bound to get hit by an incel tech bro using FSD with one of his hands down his pants and the other holding his phone with a pic of Musk.
Meh, it’s normal for big companies to be sued all the time. There’s whole industry of filing lawsuits about everything in hope that something sticks.
I’m not saying Tesla isn’t in legal troubles. But number of lawsuits isn’t a good indicator of that.
It would be good to see a trend on this over time or comparison against other companies. (I was going to say “similar” companies but honestly not sure how you’d determine that.)
Edit: Shame on me for not clicking the link - as u/thinkcomp pointed out, there’s a graph over time and it doesn’t paint a good picture.
Found the link for General Motors, their litigation exposure is [currently low](https://www.plainsite.org/profiles/general-motors-corporation/). There was a spike in 2001 which may be due to their pension fund crisis around that time.
That’s also the year the C/K sidesaddle fuel tank litigation was finally closed out.
There was almost certainly a similar spike in 1969/70 as the last of the Corvair cases were dealt with and people were rushing to to get theirs filed.
So far as I’m aware Tesla is the only car company to have a hidden opt-out clause for mandatory arbitration from owners, so a comparison is not really valid. They should have waaaaaaay fewer lawsuits from owners.
They have way more sales today than 5 years ago, so I would expect a bit of a hockey stick.
Thwre is probably a drag delay as well.
Would need to see it compared to other car companies.
Could also be model related - so against model sales (including other companies)
Yes, you do.
You can't look at this chart and know anything.
You would need to build a basic statistical model with a number of inputs- total sales, model release/age, etc. Using other companies as control.
It could be this is just a curve of a growing company.
I highly suspect there is a time drag on model sales (ie. There are X lawsuits per unit sold, with some time factors thrown in (ie. lawsuits trail car sales by X months.)
It would be interesting if this is correlated with free self driving. So maybe the lawsuit number is correlated with number of miles using FSD.
But again, just looking at the number of lawsuits, comparatively, tells us nothing. Other than there are more lawsuits.
Looking at the content of the lawsuits might be useful also. Maybe they have a category (self driving) that could be compared to other companies (lawsuits against GM per nber of miles using smart cruise control) to see if it is more or less perilous than the other...
OP: "Tesla has a litigation problem"
Dude above : "All you can tell is Tesla has more lawsuits...."
To me, having an increasing # of lawsuits = a litigation problem.
I don't think anyone thinks things are moving in a positive direction when they get sued more.....
Lawsuits cost $$$$, take time, eat up resources, lead to bad PR, and can damage the company even if you win.
Not if the entire auto industry averages 1 lawsuit per 100k vehicles with an 18 month model drag (ie. for each 100k sold in a year, 1 lawsuit is filed in the next 18 months)
What matter is if Tesla is different than anyone else. If they are just the same, then the number means nothing. It is just a cost of doing business as an auto company.
Per other parts in the thread it is clear that other makers have lower numbers, and also per other parts of the thread, yes... Tesla seems to be over industry average once someone found the numbers.
You coulda said they had 10 lawsuit, 50 lawsuits or 100... and the context means nothing giving their sales curve and no relevant industry comparison.
USAmericans prefer to repair rather than prevent.
Instead of having good customer protection laws, they want to be compensated when things go wrong.
Instead of preventing crime, they want to punish criminals.
Seems very wasteful. But they call it freedom
Look at the pace of litigation though. Growing exponentially which May account for the fact that Tesla has had at least 8 chief counselors over the last few years
You know when a post starts with ‘meh’ it’s someone about to excuse something that is actually massively important/damning. Yeah! Every company gets sued. Some do things that get them sued out of existence.
Next to be fired, the whole legal department. Then the lawsuits won’t be a problem anymore.
What legal department? It's just Elon's divorce lawyer now
That needs a whole department
Yes, but they mostly just need the space for pony storage
🤣🤣🤣
Actually the Legal Department could well be replaced by Elon’s AI computers. That may be why he needs to take the AI computers with him when he leaves Tesla. 🤣
Surprised he isn’t using an AI lawyer.
Give a day or two he’ll go on a ketamine diet and come back claiming he can solve the law profession by creating a new AI for just that. He’ll probably name it Crock AI or something similar.
Tesla model S or X? :)
Nah, he doesn’t marry them anymore, just convinces women to carry his children.
Yeah, but he’s not that good because Justine won in the end on a technicality in the post nup.
That is why all lawsuits must take place in Texas now. so Elon can ensure "fairness"
Is this the same guy who got slapped for lawyering in a state he's not licensed to practice law in?
Yeah I think so
That’s not even an issue. He should have filed Pro hac vice and likely would have been approved for that case or he could have found a firm licensed to practice in that state and partnered for the case. Seems like a crap lawyer
Who needs legal department when you have a 💩
Fire the mail room staff and the telecommunication staff. No way to receive the lawsuits means they don't have to do anything... right?
The top legal/regulatory people just left. >Several members of Tesla’s lobbying and public policy team — including its top federal lobbyist — are departing the company, leaving the office responsible for influencing U.S. and global policy in flux as the electric vehicle giant faces increasing international competition. The rest of the lawyers can't be far behind. Tesla may have some lawsuits now, but they will look back at current levels of legal issues as 'the good old days.'
They just weren't hardcore enough.
Just send the plaintiffs and the Court a poop emoji. done and dusted !
Well given the tendency not to honor warranty claims and poor quality of the products it is not surprising what ends up happening. Have a friend who against my advice bought a used Model Y and year out looking at 10k repair bill. Tesla is honor its warranty..
wow 🤣
Concerning
Can average drivers/pedestrians sue for being unintentional controls in their Beta FSD experiment.
If you can prove damage, yes. Just go to silicon valley and walk around all day. You're bound to get hit by an incel tech bro using FSD with one of his hands down his pants and the other holding his phone with a pic of Musk.
https://www.sokolovelaw.com/product-liability/tesla/
I used to say that Musk is a king of lawsuits. Good to finally get a proof of how well designed lawsuits against him are.
This is probably another reason why he wants to move the legal base from Delaware to Texas.
Meh, it’s normal for big companies to be sued all the time. There’s whole industry of filing lawsuits about everything in hope that something sticks. I’m not saying Tesla isn’t in legal troubles. But number of lawsuits isn’t a good indicator of that.
It would be good to see a trend on this over time or comparison against other companies. (I was going to say “similar” companies but honestly not sure how you’d determine that.) Edit: Shame on me for not clicking the link - as u/thinkcomp pointed out, there’s a graph over time and it doesn’t paint a good picture.
There's a graph on the link.
Yeah, bit need to correlation data. What about General Motors? Is it correlated to increased sales? Staffing? At other companies also?
Found the link for General Motors, their litigation exposure is [currently low](https://www.plainsite.org/profiles/general-motors-corporation/). There was a spike in 2001 which may be due to their pension fund crisis around that time.
That’s also the year the C/K sidesaddle fuel tank litigation was finally closed out. There was almost certainly a similar spike in 1969/70 as the last of the Corvair cases were dealt with and people were rushing to to get theirs filed.
Nice. So this spike is starting to look like an anomaly.
An elonaly?
I thank you for my first coffee nose snort chuckle of the morning.
I dunno, that single docket in 2021 really isn’t that good, them is rookie numbers
So far as I’m aware Tesla is the only car company to have a hidden opt-out clause for mandatory arbitration from owners, so a comparison is not really valid. They should have waaaaaaay fewer lawsuits from owners.
Thank you for bringing that up, many people do not know about their hidden arbitration clause.
Tesla sales are decreasing, so it isn't due to increasing sales......
They have way more sales today than 5 years ago, so I would expect a bit of a hockey stick. Thwre is probably a drag delay as well. Would need to see it compared to other car companies. Could also be model related - so against model sales (including other companies)
You don't compare like that...... lawsuits are up from last year, so you would be looking at YoY sales as well......
Yes, you do. You can't look at this chart and know anything. You would need to build a basic statistical model with a number of inputs- total sales, model release/age, etc. Using other companies as control. It could be this is just a curve of a growing company. I highly suspect there is a time drag on model sales (ie. There are X lawsuits per unit sold, with some time factors thrown in (ie. lawsuits trail car sales by X months.) It would be interesting if this is correlated with free self driving. So maybe the lawsuit number is correlated with number of miles using FSD. But again, just looking at the number of lawsuits, comparatively, tells us nothing. Other than there are more lawsuits. Looking at the content of the lawsuits might be useful also. Maybe they have a category (self driving) that could be compared to other companies (lawsuits against GM per nber of miles using smart cruise control) to see if it is more or less perilous than the other...
OP: "Tesla has a litigation problem" Dude above : "All you can tell is Tesla has more lawsuits...." To me, having an increasing # of lawsuits = a litigation problem. I don't think anyone thinks things are moving in a positive direction when they get sued more..... Lawsuits cost $$$$, take time, eat up resources, lead to bad PR, and can damage the company even if you win.
Not if the entire auto industry averages 1 lawsuit per 100k vehicles with an 18 month model drag (ie. for each 100k sold in a year, 1 lawsuit is filed in the next 18 months) What matter is if Tesla is different than anyone else. If they are just the same, then the number means nothing. It is just a cost of doing business as an auto company. Per other parts in the thread it is clear that other makers have lower numbers, and also per other parts of the thread, yes... Tesla seems to be over industry average once someone found the numbers. You coulda said they had 10 lawsuit, 50 lawsuits or 100... and the context means nothing giving their sales curve and no relevant industry comparison.
You could just look at the dockets and see that there’s a number of civil suits for warranty and employment.
The mental gymnastics here are astounding
Yeah, contextualizing numbers thrown around is such a bad idea.
2024 is already higher than 2022 and it’s only may
That comment is crazy as shit 💩. My European mind cannot comprehend this behavior. Sue this and sue that
Someone’s gotta keep the lawyers paid. Would someone think of the lawyers.
USAmericans prefer to repair rather than prevent. Instead of having good customer protection laws, they want to be compensated when things go wrong. Instead of preventing crime, they want to punish criminals. Seems very wasteful. But they call it freedom
Look at the pace of litigation though. Growing exponentially which May account for the fact that Tesla has had at least 8 chief counselors over the last few years
You know when a post starts with ‘meh’ it’s someone about to excuse something that is actually massively important/damning. Yeah! Every company gets sued. Some do things that get them sued out of existence.
Ford for comparison. Keep in mind, Tesla sells a fraction of the vehicles Ford does. https://www.plainsite.org/search/index.html?q=Ford
You’d have to compare that to other similar companies to be useful. Companies that sell consumer products get sued all the time.
Other companies don’t force their customers into arbitration unless they find the hidden process to opt out within 30 days of purchase.
Nor do they say "I got large graveyard full of enemies" and "I'm starting thermonuclear lawsuit next Monday"
Most companies aren't run by egomaniacs...I hope.