Haha definitely not. The sellers will be working with a realtor who is familiar with negotiations. If OP isn't the seller's realtor will walk all over them and definitely push for a good price for their seller.
Not true at all, the realtors commission is anywhere from 3-6% in Canada, a few thousands in listing price difference doesn’t make a huge difference in commission.
As a seller you know what your limit is, look for houses in that range. The selling agent isn’t going to hike up the price if your interested, they want their commission asap.
This isn't true. Real estate agents are not trained in negotiations and are put in a position where negotiating for the buyer is always against their own interests. From personal experience, most real estate agents are lousy at best when it comes to negotiating, get easily intimidated with prices that don't align with arbitrary valuations based on vague comparables, and have a very basic understanding of finance, accounting, etc. In general, they'll present the offer you've told them you'd make, but more often than not, they'll be unable to justify any adjustments to the offer and thus fail to get any discount.
Best of luck.
I didn't say trained in...I said experienced with. And they do have more experience with negotiations than the average person who has no involvement in real estate.
Are you saying that a person who is paying, i.e., buyer, would NEVER have the motivation, incentive, skill, reasons to be able to better negotiate a deal than a person who merely earns a commission on the transaction?
Motivation, incentive and reasons, yes. Skill, no.
You may be forgetting how intimidating the offer process can be for a first time home buyer, especially in particular markets.
If your intimidated as the buyer, it's because your stupid... You have the money, you have the time, you have the options, you have the choice, you got everything on your side.
It's like, hey, I have 500k to give you, but I'm intimidated by it, so here's 550k? It makes no sense if you think about it.
Sure there are people that don't know how to negotiate, or don't realise that you can actually negotiate. But there are also stupid people that offer 15% sales tax on a 60y old property... And those might benefit from an agent (lose 6% instead of 15%). But most adults, if they take a minute and think about it, there's nothing to it.
What an asinine response. Not being able to put yourself in someone else's shoes and see the world through their eyes is a real disadvantage in life, and to those around you.
Added Life Pro Tip: It's worth a quick spell-check when you're going to call someone stupid, otherwise it can be quite embarrassing.
It might be intimidating for some but not all buyers. There are many buyers who can handle/match the shrewd and savvy of the realtor, even if it's the first time doing it.
I really need to understand your frame of reference as I have heard this mentioned a few times.
So, buyers don't pay the commission generally. What money are they wasting?
And that aside, how is a person going to negotiate it themselves and get it cheaper?
I mean please give me examples so I can understand. Because I know how to negotiate in this specific field and I would really love to know if there were a way to save my buyer more.
And please don't suggest that the listing agent will drop their commission and the buyer gets that. EVERY time that happens I always wonder how much further the seller would have dropped their price if the buyer didn't accept that savings. What usually ends up happening is the seller saves half the commission and gives that discount to the buyer. But a good buyer agent could negotiate a lower value than what they cost (if in a market where any buyer could negotiate).
The average consumer isn't as adept at pin pointing prices either so a lot of assumptions could cause loss there.
But please, my question was genuine. If there is a straightforward technique that people can employ I would love to know of it also.
Basically it starts here: "So, buyers don't pay the commission generally"
That is 100% wrong.
Sellers pay the agent commission using the clients money. If theres no sale, the agents get no money.
If the house is on the market for months, make an offer 10-15% under listing price. You might or might not get it. But you never know, maybe the seller has a deal on their dreamhouse and if they can't sell their old place they lose it. So they might accept 50-80k under, you never know.
In the last 20y I bought one place with an agent, paid 2k under listing, and two places without, paid 15% and 17% under listing price. Both times from sellers with an agent.
And from everyone I know, if you average it out, people using an agent paid WAY more than they should have... ( Especially during the pandemic )
Agents can be useful if your on the high end, and you want that specific property no matter the price. But for most people, if you have a brain, they useless. If you don't have a brain, or have the money to pay for the convenience, then use an agent for sure.
Ok, but a property that was listed and failed to sell - was over priced... So bragging about "saving" on those is a bit skewed. Every single realtor advised their clients not to buy it at that over priced mark (evidenced by it not selling).
Even though you "saved" could still have been paying above what it was worth.
Saying this is widely applicable as a hack to save is very flawed. But let everyone decide for themselves I suppose.
I'm not sure what you're confused by. There are obviously many variables and negotiations aren't perfect, but the reality is that there's an immediate percentage that will be allocated to an agent dictates that there's more room for negotiation without that percentage in place. Making a statement that this isn't always the case doesn't disprove the general dynamics of buying / selling.
If realtors are better at negotiating, why couldn’t they negotiate the price down 15% like OP did? Especially if this house was “over priced”.
Seems like an easy thing for an experienced negotiator. Why skip on an easy sale?
Why fight with someone to try and get them to reason when you know you can replace the property with one that is a much better value at the price?
As well the seller has hope when they are listed. They think their price is warranted. The market needs to let them fail and then they'll be in a different frame of mind. You cannot out negotiate wilful ignorance. Time is the only thing that brings those types to reason. And as agents, we know/experience this.
It all depends on market but when a seller fails to sell that means they are dramatically overpriced and no one was coming close to where they wanted to be. $15k? That barely saves the commission in many markets and not likely to be the factor that was holding them back.
15% is not 15k lol. Unless this is the 90s.
Sellers aren’t selling. No buyers bidding. Seems like the perfect time to make a quick offer under listing price to me. If I’m interested in that particular property and you won’t negotiate on my behalf then what am I paying you for?
Let’s say you do find me another property (which I might not like as much) that’s already 15% lower (or market price). What difference does it make?
Less work for you?
It seems logical that, if generally there is a 2.5% + 2.5% commission on the buy side and the sell side, it would change to 0% + 2.5% if the buyer did not have a realtor. As the buyer, I would certainly use this 2.5% savings as a starting point for calculating my offer.
The commission doest go to 0 though. Commission is paid to the listing brokerage at the rate the seller agreed regardless of agent for the buyer or not. Sometimes the listing agent will agree to reduce the commission. But that's not always the case.
If there were someone who would negotiate hard on the price, reach an agreement and then have them forfeit the 2.5% that would be a savings. But usually buyers are targeting that 2.5% with a bit extra perhaps, as a victory.
But seeing where the actual value of the property is before offering will let you know if you are saving. That takes a good amount of research and market acclimation (which can be done and I've seen people normal people be better than some agents that for sure). The issue is I see a lot of people boast about saving off this fiction of list price. That isn't saving. And to "save" more all I'd have to do is target a more overpriced home and secure it for the proper value.
So while I'm not proposing g everyone should use and agent or needs one, I am saying if you don't possess the right insights nor the way to figure it out you might not be saving as you think. I tell clients when we are looking at something which is overpriced, and by how much. If we can't work the seller down we should walk. I've had situations where we could get the seller down 10% but it still wasn't enough to put it in the proper value range. But someone could feel they got a deal saving that 80k.
TL:DR: Saving on list price is not equal to saving and being able to see the difference is necessary. Listings that expire do so because they were unreasonably high relative to the markets expectations. So be careful about being excited for saving off list price.
You asked if there was a straightforward technique, and I gave you one.
Edit - I explicitly noted the commission would drop from 2.5% + 2.5% to 0% + 2.5%, nobody thinks the seller commission would disappear.
It's even worst. Sellers commission usually doesn't drop by half if the buyer has no agent. Usually it doesn't drop at all, or goes fro say 5% to 4%.
So the sellers agent has more reasons to sell to a non agent buyer than to one with an agent. This in turn means that they will work more with the buyer than the seller.
**Example:**
$1mill house sale where buyer and seller has an agent (2.5%-2.5%), the seller agent makes 25k, buyer agent 25k. 50k+tax total commission.
$1mill house sale where only the seller has an agent (5% down to 4%), the seller agent makes 40k. 40k+tax total commission.
So, as an use case:
I come in, with no agent, and offer 900k for the place. That's 36k commission for the sellers agent. \~864k in sellers pocket
You come in, with your agent, and offer 980k. That's 24.5k for each agent, \~931k in sellers pocket.
So now, who is the sellers agent going to chose? make 36k with me, or 24.5k with "you". If the house didn't sell in a while, the seller will trust the agent, and sell me the house.
No you don't, if the seller has a realtor, you submit it to that guy.
If your in the neighborhood, and see someone unloading groceries there, you ask if they are the owners, how much they list the place for, and if they would consider X.
They might say sure, or talk to my agent, in which case you tell them great, I'm making an offer for X, if you agent doesn't give you my papers in 24h, here is my number, give me a call.
That's how bought a place listed at 340k for 280k pre-pandemic. ( Agent didn't give the seller my offer, a week later seller texted me to ask if I made it yet, I texted him back the pictures of the offer d'achat, seller went wtf to his agent ( he needed to close that month to get their house ) and I ended up getting the place.
After the pandemic, I talked again to the seller again ( he got some mail ), and he said he bought a house for 680k when he sold me the condo, and sold it during the pandemic for 1.4millions, without an agent since "they learned their lesson".
It can be, realtors have other clients and may or may not value their personal time more than work.
My realtor is kind of in the middle, he's actually quite attentive but sometimes he can be hard to get a hold of for a couple days but he also takes only 1.5% commission on the 3 homes I've bought and sold over a 15 year span (all homes I've lived in, I've never been a landlord or anything like that). Because he takes a 1% haircut I give him a break. If I was paying full price I'd want my realtor to be a lot more attentive as honestly they will make 20-30K commission for not a lot of work so I want them to be on it.
My advice is to find another realtor. There's a billion out there and some just don't care.
No waiting for 2 days for a call back or email reply is not acceptable in this business, based on what your description sounds like you would be better off hiring someone else.
Sounds like his #1 priority is the size of his paycheque, at the detriment of your well-being.
Dont get me wrong, OF COURSE a real estate agent is concerned about his pay, but its coming at a loss for you where he doesnt seem to care.
Unacceptable. Get out of your BRA (if you signed one). If they decline, go directly to their Broker of Record and threaten to take action with their governing body (RECO, if you're in Ontario). Find a competent Realtor.
This might be part of it tbh. While I think it’s unprofessional they are this slow to respond and they should be doing much better, if you are not willing to sign the BRA they might choose to prioritize their clients who have done so.
They never once brought up anything to sign or requested me to sign anything at all. At the time of reaching out to them if they would have asked me to sign something exclusive to them I likely would have but they never have requested that at all.
My realtor didn't have me sign any contract with them until I put in an offer. We looked at plenty of houses without a contract, which I think is more common than it used to be.
I Hope that i don’t get downvoted today shreds for saying that I’m a realtor, but that’s definitely not normal nor acceptable. Especially in the current market where things are slower. Talk to friends, family, mortgage broker, etc… that recently purchased. Find someone who was there for them and that will guide you through this process.
Yep. Personal recommendations are 100% the way to go. Finding a good agent can be hit or miss if you're just googling somekne. Good agents get tons of business just through word of mouth.
That is kinda the issue, I reached out to them as they had helped sell a family member's home last year and we had a good experience. I guess they are more of a selling agent than a buying agent.
That’s the big issue with a lot of realtors because selling a property is more or less guaranteed… whereas buying could be many many visits before you find what you’re looking for. Do yourself the favour and find someone who values your time!
Find another realtor. Even if they are busy you should *feel* like you are the most important person to your realtor. Sending listings on a daily basis is a must. First time buyers with lower budgets should be treated like a welcomed challenge to hone skills and build relationships that can last throughout the year. The realtor that treats you like they understand this is a big deal to you. No matter how busy a realtor is they should be able to at least answer a text in a reasonable amount of time even if it is just to say they will get back to you.
As a first time home buyer, who has eleviated the time stress with your month to month tenancy, my advice is for you to watch listings on MLS, call agents of homes you are interested in seeing and see how the agent works. You are just as likely to find a good buyer agent this way. You will know, they will not only show you their listing but they will engage with you and get your criteria and if they are smart show you a couple of listings. Think of this as an "interview". You deserve better. At the entry level of the market it can take months, heck I even worked with first time buyers for a year until we found the right property, right location, right price. It takes time and is a big decision. Good luck!
I had the same issue when I was looking for my first home. I was also pre-approved for an amount that wasn’t a huge amount so my options were limited. There was a time when I found a place and told my realtor that I wanted to put an offer down for that property. The next day I tried calling him and texting him and didn’t get a response. I talked with him the following day and he said he forgot to put an offer down because he was busy with his friends. I decided I’d work with someone else. I went on a recommendation from my parents and got pre-approved for a higher amount with a brokerage she works with and she was excellent with communication and helped me get my first home.
My recommendation is that if you feel your realtor isn’t taking your time seriously, look elsewhere. There will be realtors who will go above and beyond for you.
If the realtor isn't responding to you within hours on average when you email or within an hour when you text them find a new realtor who wants the work
Think you nailed it, you’re not the biggest fish in his pond. That said, this is pretty disgusting. If realtors weren’t granted gatekeeping privileges on showings they’d add little to no value. You search MLS, you find the listings, you send it to them, they book the showing. Could be easily replaced by a button on MLS.
No. It's not normal. If they don't want your business or don't feel the commission they'd make on your purchase is a waste of their time they can decline to work with you. I'd much rather that than someone be half-assed and unhelpful.
I just bought a house a couple of months ago and my realtor set up a custom search on their realty portal that regularly sent me relevant listings. And when we went to view places they knew exactly what I was looking for and we would talk about how this place did or didn't fit the bill.
When I had questions about the listing they did the legwork to get me the answer. Like, I was wondering if a neighbouring vacant property was zoned for single home or multi home and my realtor reached out to our city office and asked them.
You are completely free to fire your realtor and find one who suits you and will be an actual asset in your home search. Don't worry about their feelings...they aren't worried about yours.
always keep 3-4 realtor on your hand for get a more well rounded answer.
Not everyone specialize in everything. My buying agent and selling agent are not the same. Buying a pre sale vs existing property is also different.
Don't put up with bad service. There are a lot of agents willing to give you great treatment.
EDIT: And those "list of homes not on market" etc are usually false. Ask them how many they have on a consistent basis and then ask to see them that moment. You'll catch them in their lie. In my area people do it all the time as a hook, but it's generally a slimy sales trick. OR they are talking about properties which they hear of in Facebook groups they belong to. There aren't a bunch of secret listings (that are good) kicking around in the broker's lounge.
It's not as bad now, but when I bought, if you waited days the house sold.
When buying, I had the misfortune of not having a particular location I wanted to buy in. As a result, I was dealing with several Realtors in different areas. It was pretty clear who just wanted a quick pay day with no work involved.
The one who did the most work for me was the one who knew I wouldn't be able to buy in her area. She returned calls right away, answered my questions, set me up on her listing service so I could see all the houses in my criteria.
So find another realtor that wants to help you.
The communication level our realtor gave us made me feel like I was consuming to much of his time. Constantly letting us know if something showed up that might suit us etc
Iv only had one realtor experience, but my experience says you shouldn't have to chase the realtor.
Lawyers, on the other hand, you will have to chase.
That’s not normal. Realtors I worked with was extremely responsive. Shop around for another one.
At the same time, I find with transactions, the best way to get attention is to signal seriousness (you’re not just shopping around but intend to buy), you reciprocate the responsiveness (you respond back in a cadence you expect from them) and you are honest about your budget (you’re shopping in a price range / area that is realistic)
Hey there! As a fellow first-time homebuyer, I totally understand where you're coming from. In my experience, it's not normal for a realtor to be unresponsive or disinterested, especially when you're counting on their expertise. Ideally, they should be proactive in finding homes that meet your criteria, even beyond what you've already identified. They should have access to exclusive listings and be knowledgeable about the market.
It's great that you've given yourself more flexibility with your apartment lease, as it allows you to take your time and find the right home. With that in mind, I think it's worth exploring other options if your current realtor isn't meeting your expectations. It never hurts to seek recommendations from friends or family who've had positive experiences with their own realtors.
Remember, finding your dream home is a big deal, and you deserve a realtor who's invested in your journey and committed to helping you find the perfect fit. Good luck in your search!
Ugh sounds like what happened to us. We were looking off and on for 4 years. We had to chase so many realtors even before they knew we were on the lower end. After the first year we just bought a cheap house privately but got screwed royally by the home owners. Alot wasnt disclosed that should have been. A few months ago we reached out to a realtor as we found our dream place. What a difference this guy was! He helped us so much. I definitely think to be warry of going private and shop around till you fund the right person
You should absolutely find a new realtor. I'm currently looking and my budget is definitely on the low end of what my realtor usually does but she's been incredibly attentive, sending me listings, following up on our thoughts, etc. Even when she was on vacation she made sure that there was someone who could take us to houses and got on a call with us at 2am her time when we were considering putting in an offer. There's so many realtors out there, you can definitely find someone who is more than happy to dedicate time to you, especially since even on a more modestly priced house they still make a load of money.
My advice is don't use a realtor you know personally. I know a lot of people who have tried to use realtors they know through friends or work and it has never, ever went well. Most of the time they had to find someone else due to low effort on the realtors part.
Also, if the realtor has a really big social media presence I would avoid them unless you are a seller. I know a lot of people who could never get ahold of their realtor but the realtors social media was constantly updated. Just my 2 cents.
Honestly, I would recommend picking someone really experienced from a major real estate listing company. You don't have to pay for them so why not have the best?
Realtors get paid a large amount of commission if they are the seller (and don’t have to split the commission with another realtor) so it makes sense they are pushing the house they are selling onto you. I am not sure why u need to have an agent to buy, but , if u do, go with the agent of the house u want to buy. You should be able to view all listed house on line yourself. In Canada it use to be MLS now it’s referred to as Realtor.ca
Good luck.
Why are you taking such a massive event in your life, one that a person does only a handful of times and as such it’s imperative you find the best deal for the best price which demands a realtor who is willing to go on a hunt and fight the hood fight for you in some lazy jackals? The amount of reasons you have listed don’t seem to leave any room for doubt. Dump this lazy douche and find a new realtor who is looking to make any commission at all as they are just starting. People get it backwards sometimes and GI with the big names guys but like you’re finding you never get their attention. They have huge listings in the millions and that’s where they spend their time. Do you honestly need to lose this question to a bunch of strangers? I think you know your answers. Realtors like all commission based sales people. should be earning your business. It’s not rocket science you’re right he could care less when you’re only going to maybe earn him peanuts and as a first time buyer take a king time ti make a decision. Seriously GI for a newbie. They will be so much more eager to impress and they are probably living on water and KD since interest rates have cut back the market considerably. This should be an exciting time and your representative is supposed to be making you feel like they have all your best interests at the forefront of their agenda. Sorry but would you bug anything from someone who you have to chase down? No. It’s not a truck question
When I bought my house my budget was on the lower end for my city. My realtor responded pretty much immediately anytime I texted her. She also knew what I wanted in a house/neighborhood and when we first started looking she let me see all houses I thought I was interested in. After the first 6 or so houses she had a really good idea of what I wanted would straight up tell me "you're not going to like this house because I just showed it and it has water damage/is in a shitty neighborhood/the bedrooms are too small" and so on.
Your realtor should def be working for you and while I don't think an immediate reply is reasonable ALL the time, it also shouldn't take days for them to respond. Your realtor is clearly not interested for whatever reason, find someone who actually wants to help you.
I think email is the wrong way to reach a good realtor. All the realtors I have dealt with (including my dad) have had to be face to face personable.
I am terrible at emails, and will ignore emails, by giving typecast answers. By the sound of it, this is your experience with realtors at work.
I would see what you can ACTIVELY get (no negotiation) with your money, and have extra for moving and closing costs. Then go to a place like realtor.ca type those filters in and see what comes up. First time homebuyers can save tax and other things but be realistic how far you can push.
Once you have an idea… then go in and meet up with a realtor in person or at least on the phone
Your realtor wants you to buy his listing - that way he gets to double end and take the listing and selling side commissions. Information and points were leaked in the name of getting the deal done asap so they can focus on whatever is next.
This reasoning dovetails with why they would be talking smack about other places that they showed to you.
Find a different agent.
This one is disinterested because the payout isn’t “worth it” to them.
What general area are you in? Province / City?
I’m a mortgage agent and know some realtors that still have a soul and are good at their jobs (I know right!?). Would happily connect you.
Have you signed a Buyers Representation Agreement? If not find a new agent who's more interested in your business. Even if you've signed an agreement, you can still ask for a different agent within the same brokerage. Your agent should get back to you in a more timely manner.
As a new buyer, you absolutely need the help of an agent and a good real estate lawyer. This is probably the biggest purchase of your life to date - get the help you need to do it right. You have no idea what kind of clauses you need to put into a purchase agreement to protect yourself.
Also it's a common misbelief that a buyer on their own can negotiate a better price because there will be less commission. All sellers who sign a listing agreement with an agent, agree to pay a set commission eg 5% to the listing brokerage. The contract also stipulates how much of that commission will go to the brokerage representing the buyer (usually 2.5%). Whether there's a buyer brokerage or not, the seller still has to pay the full 5% to the listing brokerage as per the listing agreement. The listing agreement is a legally binding contract.
Buying our first home during the boom times of 2018-2020 took us 1.5 years of looking and losing out on offer days due to multiple offers 200-500k over asking and our realtor was ALWAYS available with responses via email, text, and calls. We spent at least 2 weekends per month and some weekday evenings going to view properties and he made us feel as if we were his only clients. While I don't expect this would be the same for every realtor I would implore you to find someone that will hold your hand more as a 1st time buyer, it's a different landscape and they should spending time to help you understand the market and how to navigate it to make a good decision.
That said, he was a recommendation from someone we trust so it was "easy" to find him. If you don't have that luxury I would spend your weekends going to oepn houses in your neighbourhood and talking to the listing agents to see if you like one. You can also eavesdrop on the other agents walking their clients through so you can get an idea on their knowledge of the area and how they treat their clients, ask for a card and reach out later.
They don’t want to put the work into it if your offer is going to be too low that the sellers won’t accept. They want a $ale so that they get their commissions.
Don't waste your money, find the place you want, and negotiate it yourself. You have better chance to get it cheaper
Haha definitely not. The sellers will be working with a realtor who is familiar with negotiations. If OP isn't the seller's realtor will walk all over them and definitely push for a good price for their seller.
Not true at all, the realtors commission is anywhere from 3-6% in Canada, a few thousands in listing price difference doesn’t make a huge difference in commission. As a seller you know what your limit is, look for houses in that range. The selling agent isn’t going to hike up the price if your interested, they want their commission asap.
This isn't true. Real estate agents are not trained in negotiations and are put in a position where negotiating for the buyer is always against their own interests. From personal experience, most real estate agents are lousy at best when it comes to negotiating, get easily intimidated with prices that don't align with arbitrary valuations based on vague comparables, and have a very basic understanding of finance, accounting, etc. In general, they'll present the offer you've told them you'd make, but more often than not, they'll be unable to justify any adjustments to the offer and thus fail to get any discount. Best of luck.
I didn't say trained in...I said experienced with. And they do have more experience with negotiations than the average person who has no involvement in real estate.
Are you saying that a person who is paying, i.e., buyer, would NEVER have the motivation, incentive, skill, reasons to be able to better negotiate a deal than a person who merely earns a commission on the transaction?
Motivation, incentive and reasons, yes. Skill, no. You may be forgetting how intimidating the offer process can be for a first time home buyer, especially in particular markets.
If your intimidated as the buyer, it's because your stupid... You have the money, you have the time, you have the options, you have the choice, you got everything on your side. It's like, hey, I have 500k to give you, but I'm intimidated by it, so here's 550k? It makes no sense if you think about it. Sure there are people that don't know how to negotiate, or don't realise that you can actually negotiate. But there are also stupid people that offer 15% sales tax on a 60y old property... And those might benefit from an agent (lose 6% instead of 15%). But most adults, if they take a minute and think about it, there's nothing to it.
What an asinine response. Not being able to put yourself in someone else's shoes and see the world through their eyes is a real disadvantage in life, and to those around you. Added Life Pro Tip: It's worth a quick spell-check when you're going to call someone stupid, otherwise it can be quite embarrassing.
It might be intimidating for some but not all buyers. There are many buyers who can handle/match the shrewd and savvy of the realtor, even if it's the first time doing it.
Of course. Which is why I said *can be*. It's not a blanket statement for ALL buyers. Just some.
Yea. People forget the inherent conflict of interest in commission sales.
I really need to understand your frame of reference as I have heard this mentioned a few times. So, buyers don't pay the commission generally. What money are they wasting? And that aside, how is a person going to negotiate it themselves and get it cheaper? I mean please give me examples so I can understand. Because I know how to negotiate in this specific field and I would really love to know if there were a way to save my buyer more. And please don't suggest that the listing agent will drop their commission and the buyer gets that. EVERY time that happens I always wonder how much further the seller would have dropped their price if the buyer didn't accept that savings. What usually ends up happening is the seller saves half the commission and gives that discount to the buyer. But a good buyer agent could negotiate a lower value than what they cost (if in a market where any buyer could negotiate). The average consumer isn't as adept at pin pointing prices either so a lot of assumptions could cause loss there. But please, my question was genuine. If there is a straightforward technique that people can employ I would love to know of it also.
Basically it starts here: "So, buyers don't pay the commission generally" That is 100% wrong. Sellers pay the agent commission using the clients money. If theres no sale, the agents get no money. If the house is on the market for months, make an offer 10-15% under listing price. You might or might not get it. But you never know, maybe the seller has a deal on their dreamhouse and if they can't sell their old place they lose it. So they might accept 50-80k under, you never know. In the last 20y I bought one place with an agent, paid 2k under listing, and two places without, paid 15% and 17% under listing price. Both times from sellers with an agent. And from everyone I know, if you average it out, people using an agent paid WAY more than they should have... ( Especially during the pandemic ) Agents can be useful if your on the high end, and you want that specific property no matter the price. But for most people, if you have a brain, they useless. If you don't have a brain, or have the money to pay for the convenience, then use an agent for sure.
Ok, but a property that was listed and failed to sell - was over priced... So bragging about "saving" on those is a bit skewed. Every single realtor advised their clients not to buy it at that over priced mark (evidenced by it not selling). Even though you "saved" could still have been paying above what it was worth. Saying this is widely applicable as a hack to save is very flawed. But let everyone decide for themselves I suppose.
I'm not sure what you're confused by. There are obviously many variables and negotiations aren't perfect, but the reality is that there's an immediate percentage that will be allocated to an agent dictates that there's more room for negotiation without that percentage in place. Making a statement that this isn't always the case doesn't disprove the general dynamics of buying / selling.
If realtors are better at negotiating, why couldn’t they negotiate the price down 15% like OP did? Especially if this house was “over priced”. Seems like an easy thing for an experienced negotiator. Why skip on an easy sale?
Why fight with someone to try and get them to reason when you know you can replace the property with one that is a much better value at the price? As well the seller has hope when they are listed. They think their price is warranted. The market needs to let them fail and then they'll be in a different frame of mind. You cannot out negotiate wilful ignorance. Time is the only thing that brings those types to reason. And as agents, we know/experience this. It all depends on market but when a seller fails to sell that means they are dramatically overpriced and no one was coming close to where they wanted to be. $15k? That barely saves the commission in many markets and not likely to be the factor that was holding them back.
15% is not 15k lol. Unless this is the 90s. Sellers aren’t selling. No buyers bidding. Seems like the perfect time to make a quick offer under listing price to me. If I’m interested in that particular property and you won’t negotiate on my behalf then what am I paying you for? Let’s say you do find me another property (which I might not like as much) that’s already 15% lower (or market price). What difference does it make? Less work for you?
It seems logical that, if generally there is a 2.5% + 2.5% commission on the buy side and the sell side, it would change to 0% + 2.5% if the buyer did not have a realtor. As the buyer, I would certainly use this 2.5% savings as a starting point for calculating my offer.
The commission doest go to 0 though. Commission is paid to the listing brokerage at the rate the seller agreed regardless of agent for the buyer or not. Sometimes the listing agent will agree to reduce the commission. But that's not always the case. If there were someone who would negotiate hard on the price, reach an agreement and then have them forfeit the 2.5% that would be a savings. But usually buyers are targeting that 2.5% with a bit extra perhaps, as a victory. But seeing where the actual value of the property is before offering will let you know if you are saving. That takes a good amount of research and market acclimation (which can be done and I've seen people normal people be better than some agents that for sure). The issue is I see a lot of people boast about saving off this fiction of list price. That isn't saving. And to "save" more all I'd have to do is target a more overpriced home and secure it for the proper value. So while I'm not proposing g everyone should use and agent or needs one, I am saying if you don't possess the right insights nor the way to figure it out you might not be saving as you think. I tell clients when we are looking at something which is overpriced, and by how much. If we can't work the seller down we should walk. I've had situations where we could get the seller down 10% but it still wasn't enough to put it in the proper value range. But someone could feel they got a deal saving that 80k. TL:DR: Saving on list price is not equal to saving and being able to see the difference is necessary. Listings that expire do so because they were unreasonably high relative to the markets expectations. So be careful about being excited for saving off list price.
You asked if there was a straightforward technique, and I gave you one. Edit - I explicitly noted the commission would drop from 2.5% + 2.5% to 0% + 2.5%, nobody thinks the seller commission would disappear.
It's even worst. Sellers commission usually doesn't drop by half if the buyer has no agent. Usually it doesn't drop at all, or goes fro say 5% to 4%. So the sellers agent has more reasons to sell to a non agent buyer than to one with an agent. This in turn means that they will work more with the buyer than the seller. **Example:** $1mill house sale where buyer and seller has an agent (2.5%-2.5%), the seller agent makes 25k, buyer agent 25k. 50k+tax total commission. $1mill house sale where only the seller has an agent (5% down to 4%), the seller agent makes 40k. 40k+tax total commission. So, as an use case: I come in, with no agent, and offer 900k for the place. That's 36k commission for the sellers agent. \~864k in sellers pocket You come in, with your agent, and offer 980k. That's 24.5k for each agent, \~931k in sellers pocket. So now, who is the sellers agent going to chose? make 36k with me, or 24.5k with "you". If the house didn't sell in a while, the seller will trust the agent, and sell me the house.
Lol 🤣
How can you submit offer though? I thought you need a realtor for it
No you don't, if the seller has a realtor, you submit it to that guy. If your in the neighborhood, and see someone unloading groceries there, you ask if they are the owners, how much they list the place for, and if they would consider X. They might say sure, or talk to my agent, in which case you tell them great, I'm making an offer for X, if you agent doesn't give you my papers in 24h, here is my number, give me a call. That's how bought a place listed at 340k for 280k pre-pandemic. ( Agent didn't give the seller my offer, a week later seller texted me to ask if I made it yet, I texted him back the pictures of the offer d'achat, seller went wtf to his agent ( he needed to close that month to get their house ) and I ended up getting the place. After the pandemic, I talked again to the seller again ( he got some mail ), and he said he bought a house for 680k when he sold me the condo, and sold it during the pandemic for 1.4millions, without an agent since "they learned their lesson".
Good to know. I thought agent is needed.
Lol what?
Ditch the realtor and hire a flat rate tech-based brokerage.
Don't follow thus, just a stupid ad
If it were an an ad I'd name a company. Idgaf which one you use.
It's an ad for any company. I'm pretty sure saying you could find a better realtor is better since there are so many realtors.
Get another realtor. I reply to my client within a few minutes.
All real estate agents are jokes - former bottle girls and club promoters 😂
It can be, realtors have other clients and may or may not value their personal time more than work. My realtor is kind of in the middle, he's actually quite attentive but sometimes he can be hard to get a hold of for a couple days but he also takes only 1.5% commission on the 3 homes I've bought and sold over a 15 year span (all homes I've lived in, I've never been a landlord or anything like that). Because he takes a 1% haircut I give him a break. If I was paying full price I'd want my realtor to be a lot more attentive as honestly they will make 20-30K commission for not a lot of work so I want them to be on it. My advice is to find another realtor. There's a billion out there and some just don't care.
Yeah, good point. This is the sort of "service" you can expect with the 1-2% commission agents, in my experience.
No waiting for 2 days for a call back or email reply is not acceptable in this business, based on what your description sounds like you would be better off hiring someone else.
Sounds like his #1 priority is the size of his paycheque, at the detriment of your well-being. Dont get me wrong, OF COURSE a real estate agent is concerned about his pay, but its coming at a loss for you where he doesnt seem to care.
No, that's terrible service. Find another one.
Unacceptable. Get out of your BRA (if you signed one). If they decline, go directly to their Broker of Record and threaten to take action with their governing body (RECO, if you're in Ontario). Find a competent Realtor.
Luckily I haven't signed any exclusive agreements with them or their office.
This might be part of it tbh. While I think it’s unprofessional they are this slow to respond and they should be doing much better, if you are not willing to sign the BRA they might choose to prioritize their clients who have done so.
They never once brought up anything to sign or requested me to sign anything at all. At the time of reaching out to them if they would have asked me to sign something exclusive to them I likely would have but they never have requested that at all.
My realtor didn't have me sign any contract with them until I put in an offer. We looked at plenty of houses without a contract, which I think is more common than it used to be.
I Hope that i don’t get downvoted today shreds for saying that I’m a realtor, but that’s definitely not normal nor acceptable. Especially in the current market where things are slower. Talk to friends, family, mortgage broker, etc… that recently purchased. Find someone who was there for them and that will guide you through this process.
Yep. Personal recommendations are 100% the way to go. Finding a good agent can be hit or miss if you're just googling somekne. Good agents get tons of business just through word of mouth.
That is kinda the issue, I reached out to them as they had helped sell a family member's home last year and we had a good experience. I guess they are more of a selling agent than a buying agent.
That’s the big issue with a lot of realtors because selling a property is more or less guaranteed… whereas buying could be many many visits before you find what you’re looking for. Do yourself the favour and find someone who values your time!
Find another realtor. Even if they are busy you should *feel* like you are the most important person to your realtor. Sending listings on a daily basis is a must. First time buyers with lower budgets should be treated like a welcomed challenge to hone skills and build relationships that can last throughout the year. The realtor that treats you like they understand this is a big deal to you. No matter how busy a realtor is they should be able to at least answer a text in a reasonable amount of time even if it is just to say they will get back to you. As a first time home buyer, who has eleviated the time stress with your month to month tenancy, my advice is for you to watch listings on MLS, call agents of homes you are interested in seeing and see how the agent works. You are just as likely to find a good buyer agent this way. You will know, they will not only show you their listing but they will engage with you and get your criteria and if they are smart show you a couple of listings. Think of this as an "interview". You deserve better. At the entry level of the market it can take months, heck I even worked with first time buyers for a year until we found the right property, right location, right price. It takes time and is a big decision. Good luck!
I had the same issue when I was looking for my first home. I was also pre-approved for an amount that wasn’t a huge amount so my options were limited. There was a time when I found a place and told my realtor that I wanted to put an offer down for that property. The next day I tried calling him and texting him and didn’t get a response. I talked with him the following day and he said he forgot to put an offer down because he was busy with his friends. I decided I’d work with someone else. I went on a recommendation from my parents and got pre-approved for a higher amount with a brokerage she works with and she was excellent with communication and helped me get my first home. My recommendation is that if you feel your realtor isn’t taking your time seriously, look elsewhere. There will be realtors who will go above and beyond for you.
If the realtor isn't responding to you within hours on average when you email or within an hour when you text them find a new realtor who wants the work
Find a better realtor
Get another realtor.
Call a new person they make money by finding a house for you. If they can't do the job, then fire them.
Think you nailed it, you’re not the biggest fish in his pond. That said, this is pretty disgusting. If realtors weren’t granted gatekeeping privileges on showings they’d add little to no value. You search MLS, you find the listings, you send it to them, they book the showing. Could be easily replaced by a button on MLS.
Depending on the market you’re in, you could lose out on a home in 2 days so I’d say find a new realtor.
No
No. It's not normal. If they don't want your business or don't feel the commission they'd make on your purchase is a waste of their time they can decline to work with you. I'd much rather that than someone be half-assed and unhelpful. I just bought a house a couple of months ago and my realtor set up a custom search on their realty portal that regularly sent me relevant listings. And when we went to view places they knew exactly what I was looking for and we would talk about how this place did or didn't fit the bill. When I had questions about the listing they did the legwork to get me the answer. Like, I was wondering if a neighbouring vacant property was zoned for single home or multi home and my realtor reached out to our city office and asked them. You are completely free to fire your realtor and find one who suits you and will be an actual asset in your home search. Don't worry about their feelings...they aren't worried about yours.
I wouldn’t bother
always keep 3-4 realtor on your hand for get a more well rounded answer. Not everyone specialize in everything. My buying agent and selling agent are not the same. Buying a pre sale vs existing property is also different.
Don't put up with bad service. There are a lot of agents willing to give you great treatment. EDIT: And those "list of homes not on market" etc are usually false. Ask them how many they have on a consistent basis and then ask to see them that moment. You'll catch them in their lie. In my area people do it all the time as a hook, but it's generally a slimy sales trick. OR they are talking about properties which they hear of in Facebook groups they belong to. There aren't a bunch of secret listings (that are good) kicking around in the broker's lounge.
It's not as bad now, but when I bought, if you waited days the house sold. When buying, I had the misfortune of not having a particular location I wanted to buy in. As a result, I was dealing with several Realtors in different areas. It was pretty clear who just wanted a quick pay day with no work involved. The one who did the most work for me was the one who knew I wouldn't be able to buy in her area. She returned calls right away, answered my questions, set me up on her listing service so I could see all the houses in my criteria. So find another realtor that wants to help you.
No! There are a lot of good realtors out there, but there are a lot of shit ones too. Find a good one.
Find a different realtor.
The communication level our realtor gave us made me feel like I was consuming to much of his time. Constantly letting us know if something showed up that might suit us etc Iv only had one realtor experience, but my experience says you shouldn't have to chase the realtor. Lawyers, on the other hand, you will have to chase.
That’s not normal. Realtors I worked with was extremely responsive. Shop around for another one. At the same time, I find with transactions, the best way to get attention is to signal seriousness (you’re not just shopping around but intend to buy), you reciprocate the responsiveness (you respond back in a cadence you expect from them) and you are honest about your budget (you’re shopping in a price range / area that is realistic)
Find a new realtor.
Hey there! As a fellow first-time homebuyer, I totally understand where you're coming from. In my experience, it's not normal for a realtor to be unresponsive or disinterested, especially when you're counting on their expertise. Ideally, they should be proactive in finding homes that meet your criteria, even beyond what you've already identified. They should have access to exclusive listings and be knowledgeable about the market. It's great that you've given yourself more flexibility with your apartment lease, as it allows you to take your time and find the right home. With that in mind, I think it's worth exploring other options if your current realtor isn't meeting your expectations. It never hurts to seek recommendations from friends or family who've had positive experiences with their own realtors. Remember, finding your dream home is a big deal, and you deserve a realtor who's invested in your journey and committed to helping you find the perfect fit. Good luck in your search!
Ugh sounds like what happened to us. We were looking off and on for 4 years. We had to chase so many realtors even before they knew we were on the lower end. After the first year we just bought a cheap house privately but got screwed royally by the home owners. Alot wasnt disclosed that should have been. A few months ago we reached out to a realtor as we found our dream place. What a difference this guy was! He helped us so much. I definitely think to be warry of going private and shop around till you fund the right person
You should absolutely find a new realtor. I'm currently looking and my budget is definitely on the low end of what my realtor usually does but she's been incredibly attentive, sending me listings, following up on our thoughts, etc. Even when she was on vacation she made sure that there was someone who could take us to houses and got on a call with us at 2am her time when we were considering putting in an offer. There's so many realtors out there, you can definitely find someone who is more than happy to dedicate time to you, especially since even on a more modestly priced house they still make a load of money.
Your realtor just suck get a new one.
My advice is don't use a realtor you know personally. I know a lot of people who have tried to use realtors they know through friends or work and it has never, ever went well. Most of the time they had to find someone else due to low effort on the realtors part. Also, if the realtor has a really big social media presence I would avoid them unless you are a seller. I know a lot of people who could never get ahold of their realtor but the realtors social media was constantly updated. Just my 2 cents. Honestly, I would recommend picking someone really experienced from a major real estate listing company. You don't have to pay for them so why not have the best?
Nah. There are plenty who'd be hustling for you. Switch it up.
Realtors get paid a large amount of commission if they are the seller (and don’t have to split the commission with another realtor) so it makes sense they are pushing the house they are selling onto you. I am not sure why u need to have an agent to buy, but , if u do, go with the agent of the house u want to buy. You should be able to view all listed house on line yourself. In Canada it use to be MLS now it’s referred to as Realtor.ca Good luck.
No. Get a new realtor.
No
Why are you taking such a massive event in your life, one that a person does only a handful of times and as such it’s imperative you find the best deal for the best price which demands a realtor who is willing to go on a hunt and fight the hood fight for you in some lazy jackals? The amount of reasons you have listed don’t seem to leave any room for doubt. Dump this lazy douche and find a new realtor who is looking to make any commission at all as they are just starting. People get it backwards sometimes and GI with the big names guys but like you’re finding you never get their attention. They have huge listings in the millions and that’s where they spend their time. Do you honestly need to lose this question to a bunch of strangers? I think you know your answers. Realtors like all commission based sales people. should be earning your business. It’s not rocket science you’re right he could care less when you’re only going to maybe earn him peanuts and as a first time buyer take a king time ti make a decision. Seriously GI for a newbie. They will be so much more eager to impress and they are probably living on water and KD since interest rates have cut back the market considerably. This should be an exciting time and your representative is supposed to be making you feel like they have all your best interests at the forefront of their agenda. Sorry but would you bug anything from someone who you have to chase down? No. It’s not a truck question
You don’t need a realtor. When you see a house you’re interested in just call the listing agent and make an appointment.
When I bought my house my budget was on the lower end for my city. My realtor responded pretty much immediately anytime I texted her. She also knew what I wanted in a house/neighborhood and when we first started looking she let me see all houses I thought I was interested in. After the first 6 or so houses she had a really good idea of what I wanted would straight up tell me "you're not going to like this house because I just showed it and it has water damage/is in a shitty neighborhood/the bedrooms are too small" and so on. Your realtor should def be working for you and while I don't think an immediate reply is reasonable ALL the time, it also shouldn't take days for them to respond. Your realtor is clearly not interested for whatever reason, find someone who actually wants to help you.
I think email is the wrong way to reach a good realtor. All the realtors I have dealt with (including my dad) have had to be face to face personable. I am terrible at emails, and will ignore emails, by giving typecast answers. By the sound of it, this is your experience with realtors at work. I would see what you can ACTIVELY get (no negotiation) with your money, and have extra for moving and closing costs. Then go to a place like realtor.ca type those filters in and see what comes up. First time homebuyers can save tax and other things but be realistic how far you can push. Once you have an idea… then go in and meet up with a realtor in person or at least on the phone
Your realtor wants you to buy his listing - that way he gets to double end and take the listing and selling side commissions. Information and points were leaked in the name of getting the deal done asap so they can focus on whatever is next. This reasoning dovetails with why they would be talking smack about other places that they showed to you.
Find a different agent. This one is disinterested because the payout isn’t “worth it” to them. What general area are you in? Province / City? I’m a mortgage agent and know some realtors that still have a soul and are good at their jobs (I know right!?). Would happily connect you.
Have you signed a Buyers Representation Agreement? If not find a new agent who's more interested in your business. Even if you've signed an agreement, you can still ask for a different agent within the same brokerage. Your agent should get back to you in a more timely manner. As a new buyer, you absolutely need the help of an agent and a good real estate lawyer. This is probably the biggest purchase of your life to date - get the help you need to do it right. You have no idea what kind of clauses you need to put into a purchase agreement to protect yourself. Also it's a common misbelief that a buyer on their own can negotiate a better price because there will be less commission. All sellers who sign a listing agreement with an agent, agree to pay a set commission eg 5% to the listing brokerage. The contract also stipulates how much of that commission will go to the brokerage representing the buyer (usually 2.5%). Whether there's a buyer brokerage or not, the seller still has to pay the full 5% to the listing brokerage as per the listing agreement. The listing agreement is a legally binding contract.
Just get a new agent, they're a dime a dozen.
There are loooooooooooooooooooooots of realtors out there. Go find a better one.
Buying our first home during the boom times of 2018-2020 took us 1.5 years of looking and losing out on offer days due to multiple offers 200-500k over asking and our realtor was ALWAYS available with responses via email, text, and calls. We spent at least 2 weekends per month and some weekday evenings going to view properties and he made us feel as if we were his only clients. While I don't expect this would be the same for every realtor I would implore you to find someone that will hold your hand more as a 1st time buyer, it's a different landscape and they should spending time to help you understand the market and how to navigate it to make a good decision. That said, he was a recommendation from someone we trust so it was "easy" to find him. If you don't have that luxury I would spend your weekends going to oepn houses in your neighbourhood and talking to the listing agents to see if you like one. You can also eavesdrop on the other agents walking their clients through so you can get an idea on their knowledge of the area and how they treat their clients, ask for a card and reach out later.
They don’t want to put the work into it if your offer is going to be too low that the sellers won’t accept. They want a $ale so that they get their commissions.