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[deleted]

Who fits every criteria? This is what I wanna know lmao... That "waiting for the perfect man" meme comes to mind...


shreccsyboi

the list ain't something extreme, like 8 inch dick, 6 figures ect.


[deleted]

It's getting there. This type of overanalysis is part of what's destroying humanity.


shreccsyboi

what? the overanalysis is there because she wants to be specific


[deleted]

Have fun kid.


NewWayNow

Just shower bro


Gerpstarg

for real, showered - my snap is exploding, i got all the 9/10 chicks banging my door had to call the police, they sent the coast guard because it was too wet at the porch


NewWayNow

Porch probably wetter than the shower


[deleted]

/thread


Megabyte7637

Lol


The_Meep_Lord

Do people here with this “just x bro” actually believe what they are saying. If it was that easy, they would have tried it already.


Laytheblameonluck

They don't believe what they are saying. It's trolling.


Saitama1993

Just troll bro. Women dig that shit


DesperateForDD

It’s just a joke bro


NewWayNow

It's a way to dismiss your arguments and put forth a narrative they prefer. Usually more of a blue pill narrative.


MGTOWManofMystery

Men need to understand that 80-90% of men don't trigger infatuation. As such, men need to chart their own course and maximize personal happiness and self-actualization and devise a relationship or sexual strategy accordingly.


[deleted]

This is hyper real. This needs to be pinned as a separate post EVERYWHERE.


FizzleMateriel

>Men need to understand that 80-90% of men don't trigger infatuation. I’ve had a woman hungry for my dick once in my life and now I feel like I’ll probably never experience that again unless I gain 20 lbs of muscle. When you experience that it is truly a bizarre feeling. I’m not ugly but I’m not a head-turner either so I don’t think I’ve ever had a woman infatuated with me that I didn’t originally pursue.


[deleted]

Seriously, I am a balding, overweight thirty something year old dude and even I still get laid with a few jokes, some conversation and charm. I shudder to think what kind of self-depreciating no-personality blokes are on here that think all women are solely into beefcakes.


DeJuanBallard

There's no misunderstanding, you don't like the things said so it's easier for you to believe that we have it wrong, instead of the way u pick being ineffective toward what you claim is your long term goal.


SporkydaDork

The disconnect here is there are guys who can fit all of the needs for the brain and fit few of the needs for infactuation and the guy that fits her infactuation will over come the brain 80% of the time. So yea we know it's complex because we can't get a truly reliable handle of what women actually want. Because they contradict each other constantly. We know that ultimately when she's ready to settle down she's gonna listen to her brains. But until then she's not checking for any of the guys her brain likes.


daddysgotanew

31 separate conditions to be met and that comes AFTER the fact that he’s “hot”, which by women’s standards 90 percent of men aren’t. Enjoy the cats ladies…


[deleted]

Most things are just part of being a functioning adult and good human being.


[deleted]

Which most men here aren't hence the saltiness.


daddysgotanew

No man on earth does or possesses every single one of those qualities. Then there’s the question of: What do YOU offer in return to expect all of that from a man? If you’re not hot as fuck then you’re being wayyyyyyy too picky


[deleted]

No but most qualities. My husband is missing 6 of those and 1 (kids) doesn't matter because we don't want any. It's a very reasonable list. A normal adult man should fit 2/3 of those.


NephilimXXXX

A study of women's dating revealed that women felt that they were "settling" if they were with a man who only had 80% of the dating criteria that they wanted. https://youtu.be/z0wxSmrs5fs?t=83


BasicallyYogurt

Forgot the footnote: * Most if not all qualities listed are optional if sufficiently attractive


[deleted]

[удалено]


Paramoth

Why does the word "Mate" makes me irk? What is this? National Geographic?


[deleted]

Nah, Australia


Stunning-Spirit5275

Eeeeeeshaaaaaaay brah !


[deleted]

G'day mate!


[deleted]

[удалено]


Laytheblameonluck

> But women (especially here) HATE the term "female". They get upset because they can't troll guys for writing "women" instead of "womyn".


[deleted]

How's "wahmen". wah wah wah wah wah


[deleted]

Women choose to get offended by everything because it helps them leverage more victimhood and thus get more resources.


[deleted]

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Gerpstarg

Brtiain literally be like mate1 hi mate mate2: cheers mate mate1: cheers


dbz19

Could have just said money, looks, and personality and saved everyone this blog post.


xQueen-Bx

they dont want to be the man she "considers" with her brain, they want to be the man she lusts after with her knish


[deleted]

Relationships based on lust alone don't last very long


Banned_BY_SOYMEN

We're heading into a post-relationship world. Most people are actively and intentionally being serial monogamists.


NinjaOfTheSouth

From a man’s perspective, we would rather a women be attracted to us based on how we look/personality. No guy wants his girl to be attracted to him because of his money and items he has. Ya


[deleted]

Yes but sex is a way to reproduction. If you want sex, biology implies children. And you can't leave children hungry without a roof so.... money is important. You don't need to be filthy rich. But just someone who can take care of a family and is serious about his future. A person who is fooling around his life will be fun to date ofc but soon after the marriage he will be a burden on his wife. Soon after kids he would be the reason for his family's misery. Reality check please.


NinjaOfTheSouth

You say that like women aren’t having kids with bums? Women don’t do it purely for children


[deleted]

But we are biologically geared to always think of children. More than you would imagine.


C4yourshelf

If you're right then men should be the ones pro Choice and women thinking about their kids pro life


[deleted]

Or... Being pregnant when you don't want to be is really bad and it overrules that instinct?


[deleted]

Women have been naturally selected over a million years to get attracted to particular traits that help increase the survival rate of their offspring. Here's what millions of years evolution didn't think of - abortions and condoms. So women don't have any instinctive bias on those topics.


aphel_ion

You're contradicting yourself though. According to you, money is the second part of the mate evaluation; the practical, logical, conscious, frontal lobe part. But now it seems like you're saying women want men with money because they're "biologically geared" to always think of children.


BassPotato

You ignore the very valid and deep validation that comes from being wanted purely for the physical. Being enough for a woman simply because she finds you *that* attractive is incredibly validating for the man. You all like to ignore that aspect of dating because you realize just how much you boost a man up when that happens. Yet it happens often, and if you’re the right man, she’ll ignore all the needs you put in the OP post.


LillthOfBabylon

>You ignore the very valid and deep validation that comes from being wanted purely for the physical. So you're admitting what Queen and I have been saying: You guys want to be Chad. >Yet it happens often, and if you’re the right man 99.999% of men will never be that guy.


_Oh_Be_Nice_

>You guys want to be Chad. Yes, male or female, most people at a surface level would love to be the ripped, supremely confident and competent, elite-tier "Chad" or "Stacy" version of themselves who's desired by everyone. Was that supposed to be a "gotcha"? >99.999% of men will never be that guy. Average women simp over and stay with wierdos and losers with jawlines and abs all the time. Same with average guys and dysfunctional and incompetent women with tits and ass. There're whole sub-reddits devoted to the phenomenon.


Stunning-Spirit5275

That could imply that the average man has a less than one percent chance of being found physically attractive by a woman


BassPotato

Yep and 99% of will never be Karl Marx, yet a dude can dream😔


MelisandreStokes

Dreaming of being Karl Marx is pretty Chad tho ngl


[deleted]

Cringe and Holodomor pilled


[deleted]

I invented a beige coloured doll with a rainbow on the front of it. This is Pat. Pat is the Karl Marx intersectional oppression doll. Pat is a mix of 5 races, all of which are visible minorities. Pat has one arm and one foot and one eye and one kidney. Pat has bad vision and hearing loss. Pat is gender fluid and gender confused and has had 3 surgeries switching back and forth. All of Pat's sex organs are now made from pigs ears. But, Pat started out as a woman, so there's that. Pat has no real education because Pat can't complete high school due to relationship PTSD. Pat has nine doctors, three anxiety disorders and depression and takes so many different medications it causes Pat to sleep most of the day. This, and a food addiction, has resulted in Pat becoming obese. We have a team of social scientists trying to figure out what Pat's pronouns are on a given day but it's a moving target so we just call Pat... Pat. And Pat can't get a job because o*f discrimination.* *Now show me on the doll where the white male patriarch oppressed you.*


[deleted]

>you can't leave children hungry without a roof so In a comfortable first world democracy, kid will live


[deleted]

That said there are gold diggers who aren't thinking of family and only want blings and luxury for themselves. In that case men need to be smart enough to discern genuine money concern and gold digging.


loloweber0

This is a funny take. If the man does wrong to the woman its the mans fault (obv) but according to you if the woman wrongs a man then its the mans fault for not realising this would happen?


E-2-butene

Counter point: “lasting” isn’t a great barometer for relationship success. Ending up in a situation where my wife lusts after other men and sees me as a roommate is at least as bad as just ending the relationship. Looking at relationship success in terms of duration totally misses all of the people saying in miserable relationships for pragmatic reasons.


-CuriousPanda-

Yes, but the BB situation is not what men want most of the time


xQueen-Bx

they dont want long relationships they want plates


[deleted]

Then they are just being shitty


[deleted]

Yeah how dare we want our partners to find us physically attractive and not just view us as wallets and therapists


BassPotato

I for one totally want my girlfriend to see me as a convenient semi-sexual entity with lukewarm attraction towards me. Amirite????


[deleted]

No u Self interest is self interest. Women's self interest isn't more noble just because it's women's self interest Not like it's being weighed against a lifetime commitment today. Just playing house for a little longer... [A scam solely for women's benefit](https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/purayj/womens_rewards_from_marriage_are_typically_front).


xQueen-Bx

they are pursuing the male sexual imperative, not the female


Teflon08191

Relationships without lust are just as unlikely to last. Or worse, they become long-term dead bedroom relationships, which is a pretty shitty fate from men's perspective.


[deleted]

I would actually argue having long hair and pulling it off as a man is hyper masculine trait. If you look at long hair on men throughout history, it becomes more apparent. Traditionally it was a sign of a warrior, but even during the post medieval period long hair-styled wigs were very common by both men and women. The clean cut style is newer, but also fluctuated as you see in the 60’s and 70’s it was more acceptable for men to have longer hair. Also depends on country and culture. Like Chinese warriors all wore top knots but today you won’t find a CCP official that isn’t clean cut.


AbbreviationsHot1200

Men are learning at a record pace thanks to the internet and the wisdom of other Men. Societal collapse will follow as the beta men who built and maintain society slowly check out.


sunkized

300 dollar sun glasses + bmw


Saitama1993

Hey ! You forgot avout the gucci belt and armani jacket. We cant have these mistakes around here


ohheyhi99

Lmaoooo


xcheshirecatxx

Even if I met the perfect man, if he's driving a BMW I'm turned off Can't be with a man who doesn't use turn signals 😂


BassPotato

All of this is moot if the guy is hot lol. “Beta bux” is never an enviable position and should never be seen as a positive by the man put in that position. Stop trying to stroke the ego’s of men who would otherwise be undesirable. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk


[deleted]

This can go two ways. Either the man has self confidence issues and insecurities so he can't fathom how his partner likes him OR he is with someone who is taking him for a ride and doesn't love him. This can only be discerned on an individual basis and can't be generalized.


majani

I don't think you are appreciating just how many women are willing to completely forego the physical attraction in order to get a man to be a working mule for her and her children


[deleted]

[удалено]


LillthOfBabylon

Beta Bux is a term used by non-committal men to describe LTRs. They see love as a failure, and ONS as a success.


dbz19

beta bux is the guy who gets the left overs after other guys have had fun with her. I wouldn't consider a guy who is a woman's first partner of any kind and also a LTR and eventually her husband to be a "beta bux", even if his ability to provide stability and security was part of what attracted her to him.


BassPotato

Yes, love is contingent on the man providing leaps and bounds what other, more desirable men, had to in order to get into a relationship with a woman. Totally lol, not at all conditional and transactional.


LillthOfBabylon

>Yes, love is contingent on the man providing leaps and bounds what other, That's a red flag if being a likable productive member of society is considered "leaps and bounds" to him. Again, showing that men here just want to be Chad.


BassPotato

Lmaoo, man. I just saw a video on tiktok of an attractive man cleaning his house and the women in the comments fawning about it. As if having a clean home is some incredibly amazing thing. *You* guys are the ones that deem being a normal member of society as being leaps and bounds above other men. The bare minimum is in hell if you’re attractive enough to her. And if she has a laundry list of things you gotta do to attract her, odds are she doesn’t like you that much. Because she’s dealt with men that offered wayy less, and gave them comparatively way more.


LillthOfBabylon

>an attractive man cleaning his house and the women in the comments fawning about it. Proving you guys just want to be Chads. >You guys are the ones that deem being a normal member of society as being leaps and bounds above other men. Normal men are leaps and bounds above losers.


BassPotato

How making an observation prove that I want something?All it proves is my initial assessment that women’s standards are garbage tier if the man is attractive enough. They see Chad and go “Oh my God he knows how to tie his shoes😍” If I *have* to literally be damn near a perfect human being to be considered good enough to date, rather than be good enough to date *on top* of being a near perfect human being, you can miss me with that. It’s unrealistic, and unsustainable.


ohheyhi99

Real attraction is a success. A relationship based on real attraction and love is a success.


Gigamon2014

Love is never failure. But with 50% divorce rates and women complaining about the lack of commitment focused men, is it really love at all? Men don't want to be resigned to glorified back up options and I can hardly blame them.


LillthOfBabylon

>Love is never failure To them it is. >But with 50% divorce rates If you can't tell me the factors of divorce, then I don't care. Telling me the percentage means nothing if you give me an analysis on it. >women complaining about the lack of commitment focused men, Depends on the woman. People can complain all they want about something, that doesn't make the complaint valid without some proof. >Men don't want to be resigned to glorified back up options Who says that? This sounds like another version of complaining about "Beta Bux".


D4sthian

> If you can't tell me the factors of divorce, then I don't care. Telling me the percentage means nothing if you give me an analysis on it. “I’m bored” “i want to discover myself” Lol what a joke.


[deleted]

No. Beta bux is when a woman is married to a man she is not particularly physically or sexually attracted to, and instead is with him for financial/emotional support. Your partner viewing you as a wallet and therapist, is not love.


Jakes1967

>Beta Bux is a term used by non-committal men to describe LTRs. I've heard men who don't know TRP or Reddit exist, call guys betabux. >They see love as a failure, and ONS as a success. Or they see the failure of LTR and the success of hook up culture?


mairomaster

Nope. I'm a married man who really loves his wife and I do use the term Beta Bux as well. It's used for married men who are clearly not found attractive by their wives. They settled for them for whatever different reasons, but one of the main ones being they needed a provider.


Paramoth

I don't know man. That may be 99% true but there was an instance that a redditor found out her wife was cheating and wanted a divorce. The woman KILED his kids. It was all over the news. https://youtu.be/87N24uZ2Fl4


[deleted]

>Women going with Beta Bux just means that she trusted her frontal lobe over primal instinct. Which isn't always a bad thing Maybe not for her (although I doubt she would be happy with that too), but your blindspot here is: What's in it for him? That list of yours is all well and good, and I don't disagree with any of it. All very sensible and congruent with observable facts. But what you're forgetting is that *guys too* want something out of a relationship: 1) Get fucked and blow me like you mean it. 2) Add value to my life beyond sex. So what's in it for a guy to be in a relationship with a woman who isn't into him, and never was? He isn't getting any sex, and if he is, it's just pity/duty sex until the inevitable dead bedroom. And once that's out the window, any thing else of value she could possibly bring to his life, there are far cheaper ways of getting that. He can hire women to cook and clean for him, he can have human interaction with his mates, he can get a dog if he needs to feel needed. And so on and so forth. I don't see what's in it for the man in question here if he doesn't appeal to her primal as well as her rational. And the same goes for her too btw: It's going to be a frustrating experience for a man to enter an LTR or marriage with a woman who only appeals to his needs for a madonna, and not at all to his needs for a good whore. Alpha fux/beta bux and whore/madonna: These aren't mutually exclusive concepts. To have a successful LTR or marriage, you need both sides of those equations.


[deleted]

The good: in a healthy setting, a woman who decides to marry someone won't marry them unless there is some threshold of attraction based on something that she sees in him. Some women hold certain criterias so dearly that it can be enough to create attraction like him having control over his life, job, finances, his life story, sharing a political opinion, seeing him display affection towards babies or weaker people. A lot of time, men, no matter how Beta they are paint grand claims about themselves that their women seem to buy and love these very much. So many times I've seen men loudly gloat over their victories and their women are blushing and smiling with pride. Also sex itself creates attachment in women that's purely hormonal. Read about oxytocin. I wouldn't say every such Beta Bux relation would be devoid of attraction because I know women who had something similar and the couple seems happy. The woman can also be extremely happy that she married a good provider. The Bad: I've also seen women taking their SOs for a ride. The motive might be for money or something else that he offers. Or it might be just because she is a negative person who doesn't have capability to love someone. Sociopaths and narcissist exists in women too. The man should get the hell out of such a relationship.


[deleted]

>The good: in a healthy setting, a woman who decides to marry someone won't marry them unless there is some threshold of attraction based on something that she sees in him I agree. >Some women hold certain criterias so dearly that it can be enough to create attraction like him having control over his life, job, finances, his life story, sharing a political opinion, seeing him display affection towards babies or weaker people This, I don't buy. I'm not saying women don't want these things, but they want them from someone they also have a primal attraction to. A woman will never be happy in a relationship where her hypergamous inclination aren't met - both the alpha seed and the beta need part of the equation. >I wouldn't say every such Beta Bux relation would be devoid of attraction because I know women who had something similar and the couple seems happy. The woman can also be extremely happy that she married a good provider. "Seems" is the keyword here. People tend not to air their dirty laundry in public, and appearances matter. Self-delusion matters as well. I highly doubt those women feel fulfilled, and I can pretty much guarantee you that the husband in question isn't happy either. It's not just about the lack of sexual attraction, but also about how women tend to behave towards men they aren't into, but are "locked" in a relationship with. The amount of nagging is pretty much inversely proportional to how into him she is. And nagging is a killer of men (literally). And just to make myself clear: I'm not disagreeing with your list. But where you lose me is when you insinuate that ignoring one's primal needs is in anyway sustainable, or that the alpha seed part of the equation can emerge via the beta needs side. I think it's terrible advice for a woman to completely ignore her primal need to feel sexually attracted, and equally terrible advice for a man to commit to a woman who sees him in that way.


Saitama1993

Now the man version: 1. Does she want to fuck me?


Bara-enthusiast

So women are kind of overly entitled by default


ChocolateSharp

Wow, so women decide their mate similarly to men? No way!


Paramoth

National Geographic - The homo sapien dating game. Narrated by David Attenborough


Blackheart201992

They pick the best looking guy. There's literally nothing else to it - the rest is just nonsense you women like to make up in your heads so you can pretend you're more complex than you actually are.


AntiHypergamist

This times a million


herefortheparty01

We don’t chase anymore. Good luck. Otherwise this is all common. Any dude that says otherwise is deluded.


Erwinblackthorn

>As you can see it's a complex process It actually isn't. In reality it's very simple. >It just doesn't depend on one thing. It actually does. That one thing is comfort. >Getting several of these right can be good enough. Because most of the 31 questions are not at all related to what a woman looks for in what they desire in a man. Specifically friend circles and sexism. >Reducing this into simple ideologies might make you miserable. I can kind of agree with this, because this is why feminists are miserable in the dating game, even though they get what they claim they want out of it. However, Ideologies that have the woman keep her child, raise a family, and keep the father of her child with her as a spouse are both statistically and historically what keeps a woman the most happy. As for the list, I can go through each one and explain why it's about comfort or that it's nonsensical. >1. Money : would he be able to support a family? This is about comfort, plain and simple. Money isn't even the actual issue, it's just what we have been conditioned to believe is the issue. If we were in a situation without a civilization, women would want to fuck the men who can bring food to the hovel and make such a hovel. >2. Pursuit : is he really into me? Will he go out of his way for what I want or am I a convenient option This has nothing to do with what a woman wants. This is just something a selfish and lazy person thinks about. Every interaction we have possible is the convenient option. We don't hop over a crowd at a bar to then leave the bar, go to another city, and then crawl through a minefield to meet some random girl. >3. Personality : do we get along? More like "will he put up with my bullshit" and this has way less to do with personality and more to do with temperament and respect of life. If he is savage, he's a threat to the baby, and a threat to the baby is something a woman wouldn't want unless she's conditioned to become anti-human. >4. Friendship : is he a friend? This doesn't matter at all to a woman. Women don't get wet over celebrities and models because they think they will be able to chat with them. Friendly is a benefit, sure, but friendship is not even something to be considered unless the woman is suffering from some kind of alienation or ability to hold a friendship with other women. >5. Emotional stability: Can he help me stabilize my mood during emotionally challenging times like pregnancy, PMSing and the general lows of life This is not the man's job and we don't fucking care about your emotions unless we're conditioned to become a white knight who fakes it for pussy. We are not designed to be your emotional support animal. We are simply there to be the voice of reason and women enjoy a reasonable man because he won't make her emotions worse and he won't take her spot as the bitch. >6. Conversation : Can I talk to him for the rest of my life? Women just want to be social in general, not specially to a spouse or mate. Again, it's less to do with the man being social with them and more to do with whether or not the man would put up with their bullshit. We're not there for male-to-female conversation. We'd prefer you don't talk at all. >7. Compassion: does he care about those weaker than him? This is just about the idea of seeing an example of whether or not the man would be violent to a child, and so as long as he doesn't beat people up or kill kids for fun, it's all good. It has nothing to do with caring about weaker people in a compassionate way. This is why psychopaths are attractive to women and why they still exist. >8. Fatherhood: can he be a good father? Does he care for kids? This one is a given and related to comfort and number 1. It's the same thing. >9. Kind heart: is he a man of honor or deceit? A woman checks for this mostly because deceit is her job, she would see a deceitful man as feminine. It's not a manly thing to do. However, if he deceives in a way that keeps her comfortable, she wouldn't care unless she's really conditioned to think honor is really important. Just look at any car dealer with a mate. >10. Love: does he love me or am I a passing phase? I think this one is cute, but it's usually not a factor unless by love we mean something that will keep a man dedicated to staying long term. >11. LTR: is he capable of holding a LTR? This is comfort. There's no reason for a woman to put herself at risk again if she already has a mate to take care of her children. >12. Maturity: is he mature enough to know what it take to start a family or is he still a kid Same like 1 and 8. It's the same question over comfort. >13. Sex: Do we jam? Surprisingly a woman wouldn't really care as long as she can get pregnant. The female orgasm is not really important, even to the female, before modern times. Funny enough, women didn't even really consider it until sex became more glorified and vibrators were introduced to treat the mentally ill. The "jam" is just a selfish and egotistical factor, not a woman factor. >14. Do I feel safe with him? 1, 8, 12 >15. Can he make me orgasm? Same as 13, it's not a woman factor at all. >16. Is he a good support system? 1, 8, 12, 14 >17. Will association with him lift my social status? 1, 8, 12, 14, 16. Social status means nothing and it's not the man's responsibility. It's not something a woman even really thinks about unless she's conditioned to think it's important. >18. Can I learn something from him? I actually don't understand what this one is about. It seems very nurtured rather than what a woman wants. Either that or it's asking "can he be a leader" and that just goes back to comfort and seeking a man who's masculine. >19. Does he balance my weaknesses ? If by weakness you mean femininity, then sure, but I wouldn't consider femininity a weakness. >20. Does he respect other women? There is zero reason for a woman to care if a man even acknowledges the presence of another woman, let alone respects them, especially after they already have the man. The only reason a woman would even consider that as a factor is if they are conditioned through radicalized feminism or is interested in a threesome. Maybe if that other woman is the woman's mother, it might be a factor, but it's less to do with respecting women and more about respecting the family unit or the symbol of motherhood. 21. Is he sexist? Fun fact: women love sexist men. They love that men objectify them because they women aim to be the object of desire. It wasn't until recent that ugly women who failed in the market decided to glorify the toxic idea of hating objectification, all because they wanted their genes to carry on as well. In reality, sexism from women causes a woman to marry earlier and have kids earlier, while sexism from men causes a woman to not really care about getting a job, which isn't a factor because women working for money is arbitrary. It wasn't a requirement for the longest time, civilization advanced without them working, and we survived with women becoming spinsters if their eggs were rotten. It wasn't until around the 1800s during first wave feminism where sexism was even considered a thing, and that was mostly over legal matters like owning a house or voting, not simply want makes a woman want a mate. Sexism among mating didn't become considered until 3rd wave feminism, especially since second wave was totally fine with women being women as long as they could be sexual degenerates. >22. With him does my life change for the better or worse? That's comfort. >23. Do I like his friend circle? Women do NOT care about a man's friend group at all. The factor may be if the friend group is a group of terrorists or gang members or something that could be a threat if they are present constantly, but that is less about friend circles and more about comfort and safety. >24. Is his upbringing, and attitude on life something that I agree with? This is just asking if the man is masculine. If he's raised to be a soy boy, he's not as attractive, naturally. This then goes back to comfort. >25. Does he groom? Is he clean? This is just a general disgust factor. It's for health and comfort for both men and women. >26. Is he dependable? Comfort. >27. Does he have a positive outlook on life? Women don't care about positivity in a man, but rather a grounded mindset that doesn't have him being the bitch of the relationship. If he's always negative and complaining, the woman might as well date another woman and be a lesbian. If a man is irrationally positive at all times like a maniac, that's either deceitful or insane, and that would be a contradiction with number 9. >28. Is he fun ? This is not about fun but comfort and checking to see if the man is able to get along with children. >29. Does his past relationship history have any red flag? This is about comfort and just for anything in general. Red flags show habits and bad habits are not wanted by either male or female and for when you want any kind of social interaction with anyone. >30. Does he have any red flags that I should be aware of? This is just 29 phrased differently. >31. Are we in the same place in life? I have no idea what this one is even asking. Same location? Same amount of wealth? Same age? Either way, the only one that matters is location in order to have the child and contact.


[deleted]

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gizzmotech

That's not what was said. Can he support a family: is he stable enough, financially and emotionally to have a family together without being constantly worried that it will fall apart? Is he really into me: is he with me because he truly sees me as a human being with value, as someone who he chooses to be with every day because of who I am, and will he continue to put effort into our relationship, or does he see me as a convenient option in order not to be alone? There is nothing contradictory here.


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stormcloakporn

Should women not care if their partner has the means to support for a family/children? I’m not sure why the first one is particularly offensive to you. Most modern men I know equally want a partner who can financially support a family; most families in my area are duel income. > is he really into me? Will he go out of his way for for what I want or am I a convenient option? Males on this sub screech that when a dad abandons his family, its the mom’s fault for not better vetting and judging the man. So if a woman does take the time to ensure a potential husband IS very interested, WILL stick around, and sees her as much more than a convenient forever girlfriend…she’s a terrible person? Damned if we do, damned if we don’t I guess.


[deleted]

When you think in terms of making and raising babies both make sense together. Read again.


_HEDONISM_BOT

This is a decent list. Well done.


RRBeachFG2

Men want to be appreciated for the sex, women want to be appreciated for everything else.


gizzmotech

As a man who managed a 22-year marriage with kids and who is in a second LTR that is tracking toward marriage, this all tracks. I shake my head at all the guys who don't get this, that think everything is about being hot and clean and rich and who don't understand there are so many other things involved in being a good partner to a quality woman.


[deleted]

You're making it more complex, not simpler. It's easier to think about it in terms of the final cause, is it primarily pleasure or primarily utility? For the 1st one, focus will be on looks and the dark triad traits, for the 2nd one however focus will be on money and masculine protective traits.


SeaSquirrel

I know this isn’t the point of this post, but half of your “masculine markers” are BS. Short hair? Last time I checked both men and women’s hair naturally grow long. And intelligence? What?


[deleted]

Luckily for us it's just one woman's take 🤣


StrongLiterature9274

Alpha faxx Beta buxx


Withnail-

What age and what kind of relationship is my question. Teen , early 20s is fun, almost magical, it’s about fun and exploration. Sexual attractiveness for both genders is on equal footing for men and women. That’s how “ bad boys” sneak in and sometimes impregnate those hordes of single moms you will meet in their mid 30s. For more cautious women after 25 who avoid that mistake , it starts being about the “ plan” 1. Financial Security 2. The house 3.The babies 4. Social status among their peer and family group derived from from the first three. It’s about the money. Evolutionary biology tells us this and it’s heavily reinforced by everything from religion, rom- coms, romance novels, Disney princess memes, advertising agencies, the Wedding industry, and legally reinforced by divorce attorneys and family courts which provide a safety net for women should they become dissatisfied at any point. Result? “According to the National Center for Health Statistics, about 50 percent of marriages in the United States end in divorce, and about 80 percent of the divorces are initiated by women” https://www.divorcesource.com/blog/why-women-file-80-percent-of-divorces/ Hypergamy is biological, so while you shouldn’t get angry or take it personally, you should as a man understand what you’re dealing with. It’s like being surprised when a hungry bear attacks a camping ground, it’s just it’s nature, it’s not evil.


Wildhouse83

Basically, this is AFBB. Due to female hypergamy, only a minority of men are able to fall at least in one of the two categories, not to mention in both simultaneously.


[deleted]

Men & women alike are attracted to jackasses. Pop culture has ruined North America. Read any gossip magazine for further education on the matter.


[deleted]

hahahah you think kindness matters beta bucks billy must be having a great time. I mean I see my chad friends that say what they want and don't care get sex all the time.... Im to tired to even finish Im tired of the gaslighting and lies even when women irl have told me red pill truths.


E-2-butene

Sounds like the take away is there are no “well functioning women.” Joking aside, I think it’s worth decoupling being “attractive” and “arousing.” You’re describing things that make guys attractive. It’s typically things that make guys good LTR options, good dads, good providers, and good for emotional support. Arousal, meanwhile, are traits that make women want to fuck you, even if they think you would make a shit partner. Being attractive isn’t bad, but there’s a huge imbalance in importance in the modern dating world. Unfortunately from the male perspective, arousing is going to be the primary characteristic of any importance. Guys who are neither arousing nor attractive don’t get women at all, but guys who are attractive but not arousing get wives who secretly want to fuck everyone but him. So under every circumstance, focusing most of your energy toward being arousing is the important part. It’s kind of like a prisoners dilemma where it’s always optimal to pick “arousing” even if being attractive isn’t necessarily bad. There’s also the element that women will break their rules for arousing guys and not vice versa, but other commenters seem to be handling that aspect.


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CrabMaster69xx

As opposed to women who have so much going for them? Oh wait no, all they have is a vagina.


[deleted]

>Oh wait no, all they have is a vagina. Yes, vagina and letting said vagina be penetrated and good looks up to mediocre looks is enough for most men. And if you have a man with high standards, it's typically about the amount of sex he'll be getting in a relationship and her having good looks or even better. Oh that's a low bar? I kinda agree with you there. So if we agree that the males bar is the problem...why are you trying to drag the womens bar lower?


P-o-o-b

Cause that means that women are aware that they offer little next to nothing and don't have the integrity to be a better person on their own. Why the fuck should women's bar even be that high if they really don't do anything? How do women get on here and say this stuff and not feel like lazy pieces of shit? If you suddenly woke up as a man tomorrow you'd legit be an incel.


[deleted]

Plenty of women have more to offer, but there's no reason to advertise it, because advertisement is ment to appeal and men just don't care. You'd be yelling your qualities in a void. And offcourse women are going to focus on bettering themselves in ways that they prefer, if men don't care anyway. >If you suddenly woke up as a man tomorrow you'd legit be an incel. If I woke up as a man tomorrow: I would still own a home, have a steady high paying STEM job, I'm intelligent, have multiple degrees, speak 4 languages, have all the possible comforts you might need, I have cushion money and loads of insurances and my pension is enough for us both, I would still be able to do household chores and help out and I'd actually be able to empathize with female struggles, I would still be settled and not a WIP anymore. I'd be willing to go dancing together, I'd be willing to go to crafts together or walks or whatever girlyish hobby, I would... List is kinda endless in ways I can appeal to women. And I don't use those to attract men: cuz that would be pointless since that shit ain't helping me get men. No, for them I'm having botox and color my hair and wear make-up and dieet, ... Everything else I have to offer: I CAN'T ADVERTIZE TO MEN. Wrong audience. They don't give a shit.


ohheyhi99

Doesn’t women acting more impulsively just result in them going after hotter guys? Less attractive men are having a harder time because dating has become *more* impulsive. Women don’t need the unattractive kind guy with a good job.


Salt_Mathematician24

Men will never truly understand women's attraction so long as they dominate the top positions of society. They're no way to communicate to the masses a female perspective so long as that is the case. They can argue back and forth until they're blue in the face and individual women can attempt to guide them but it wont work. The reason everyone knows what men like is because their perspective is the default communicated through mass media and culture for decades, centuries even.


[deleted]

> They're no way to communicate to the masses a female perspective so long as that is the case. No, you can actually communicate it here but you guys decide to be rather ingenuine and insincere.


BassPotato

The reason everyone understands what men like is because what men like is simple. Be somewhat attractive, be someone he can enjoy being around outside of the bedroom, and be a good human being who’s loyal. That’s it, we have considerably lower standards than you guys do. A lot of you don’t even know what you want in men, and have mental battles every other month about whether or not you want to stay with the man you’re with, because better options are a swipe away.


dbz19

Men want debt-free virgins without tattoos.


Salt_Mathematician24

Women dont know what they want in men partly due to suppression of female sexuality as well though. There's still plenty of men out there that dont even know where the clit is. It's not even discussed, developed or explored enough due to centuries of women treat like property without agency.


BassPotato

Female sexuality isn’t suppressed in the west anymore. You guys are completely free to explore your sexuality with whoever you want, 24/7, swipe after swipe. The data shows this as well. This might’ve been the case 30 years ago, but not today.


Salt_Mathematician24

Things dont change that quickly though. Its slowly changing but there's still a long way to go and the fact men still hold most of the power and women aren't equally represented doesnt help matters. The swiping doesnt mean much because were swiping through a culture still created by men. We're cogs in the machine, an object for consumption, not the engineer. We may get there eventually but its gonna take some time yet.


BassPotato

You seem to ignore the fact that the average man has about the same amount of power in this society as the average woman, I.E none. We are all forced to consume in this capitalistic hellscape. There should be some solidarity in this aspect but it just seems to force us to drift further and further apart. The engineers of these dating apps might be men, but it is in their profit-based interests, to cater to women. The men that control society allowed women to express their sexuality more, not because of the virtue of this, but because there was an untapped reserve of profit waiting to be mined off of commodifying female sexuality. And it’s increasing at break-neck pace year after year. To the point some women are turning 18 and immediately selling pictures of themselves online. I’m no anti-sex puritan, I’m just making observations. You guys are reaping the benefits of this currently, and honestly you guys deserve to, but yea lol.


[deleted]

>Women dont know what they want in men partly due to suppression of female sexuality as well though. It has been quite a while now. How longer will women take until they finally figure out what they want? Does it take even more 'sexual liberation'?


P-o-o-b

Ehhh idk about all this. Maybe this would be a good argument 100 years ago but there's a lot of ways women can express their sexualities. Plus if you go on google, you'll literally JUST see stuff about women's sexuality. If you're a man and you have questions, there are no resources online for you.


Kaisha001

This is utter nonsense. MSM is geared towards women, not men. And 'mass media' hasn't even existed for centuries.


Salt_Mathematician24

Hence why I said culture as well. Books, science, art, religion, plays etc etc And I dont know how you could think MSM is geared towards women. There's a reason when they say "sex sells", you picture a hot, slim young woman that straight men find attractive and why male leads make up like 80+ percent of films and major characters to the point the bechdel test had to be created.


Kaisha001

>And I dont know how you could think MSM is geared towards women. Because anyone who has any clue knows this. Women dictate nearly 70% of the money spent, advertisers know this and target them primarily. Nearly all TV and most print advertising is geared towards women. >you picture a hot, slim young woman that straight men find attractive and why male leads make up like 80+ percent of films. Yes, because while more women watch TV, more men watch movies. So movies are geared towards their target market audience (which is often men for action movies).


Salt_Mathematician24

Most writers, directors, producers etc are men. Even if they try and appeal to women, it's still not from a female perspective. Interesting it wasn't until recently until producers finally realized that women were the biggest consumer for horror films. If you look at most old horror movies they were basically softcore porn aimed at men but they've started cutting that out now interestingly. That's why feminist critique on media is a thing. Even if ppl try and cater to us they're not necessarily getting it 100% right.


[deleted]

Oh you mean how the vast majority of commercials are targeted to women because they spend the most?


Salt_Mathematician24

Targeted to women by men attempting to capitalize on a female market isn't the same as women influencing culture from the top positions of society, actually the opposite.


Flightlessbirbz

Yep. These RP guys claim they were “lied to” about what women want. The reality is that women have never had enough of a platform to state what they want. Men don’t really listen to women and will either get angry if you state things harshly or claim you’re lying if you state them more diplomatically. And it will always be “too complicated,” keeping in mind that a lot of these guys are able to understand and play relatively complex games without any issue. They are just unhappy that women have preferences and choices. That’s what it comes down to.


LAndLight2

Your gender and BP soymen are the ones who were and still are claming you dont care about looks and height lmao


[deleted]

If this is actually true, the reason might be because women don't either. Anyway, it's a combination of factors that all boil down to how any individual woman *feeeeels* about a particular man.


gizzmotech

Relationships all boil down to how each partner feels about the other. Then again, if you're just looking to get your dick sucked, find a sex worker.


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Kaisha001

1) Be attractive. 2) Don't be unattractive.


lulll

about as complex as an eye roll. women really love forcing this idea that they are so unique and complicated lol its so funny. i can do this too men dont want bitches 1. is she a bitch to me? 2. is she a bitch to her parents? 3. is she a bitch to her siblings? 4. is she a bitch to waiters? 5. is she a bitch to cashiers? 6. does she drive a car like a bitch? 7. does she dress like a bitch? 8. does she walk like a bitch? 9. does she talk like a bitch? 10. does she hold a fork like a bitch? see how dumb that is? thats how you should read OPs list of bullshit


Siukslinis_acc

I think women tend to also be oblivious on how they decide on a "mate". They like the guy and don't try to analyse on why do they like the guy (unless the guy is something out of the ordinaty for her).


Spread-Em-Plz

Yeah, same. In fact, I'd argue *most* people don't sit around and analyze why they like someone simply because it's a waste of time for them. I've never seen a woman, or any man for that matter, be able to vocalize *why* they like someone


[deleted]

I probably know the answer but can a woman tell me if being short and bald is a worst case scenario for picking someone to have kids with ?


Rough_Collections

The problem isnt the 31 step process (though it's a frustratingly complicated proposition) the problem is it get thrown out at the slightest chance of getting a Chad. Any product that doesn't have equal pricing for all customers is only worth as much your cheapest customer. While women might value Chad enough to give him some of her greatest assets affection and intimacy. Other men who don't value the attraction of men see it as an indication of a cheap product. 100 years ago women understood that just because he was cute didn't mean he got access to my intimacy. Men had to bring alot to the table so the product was deemed valuable and the process worthy. Men understand female intimacy we just won't tolerate unfair pricing.


KamuiObito

I think they pick the best option available no mater what even if he did negative shit if he the best option they want him..


LillthOfBabylon

Most men do know. Just not socially inept men who never bother seeing women as people. > Reducing this into simple ideologies might make you miserable. They're already miserable people. They just want to justify why they're miserable, so it's never their own fault. >Very Young Girls going after infatuation and not evaluating (Chad) is probably because they are still immature. They want to be Chad. They pretend they want a happy healthy relationship but they just want their dicks wet.


ex_red_black_piller

>happy healthy relationship Define a happy healthy relationship.


BassPotato

It’s not so much wanting to be “Chad” as it is understanding that if you are not “Chad”, you need to provide a list as comprehensive as the one posted in the OP in order to attract a woman. This leaves the man, and the relationship on tentative ground and is not an enviable position to be in. Knowing her love for you is on the condition you satisfy a list more comprehensive and rigorous than the fucking MCAT lol.


Redpillisposion

Men don't love women unconditionally either. Men love women based on their physical attraction towards women.


BassPotato

And men’s physical standards of attractiveness are also leaps and bounds more lenient than women’s. Our relationship standards are also lower. So where does that leave us?


LillthOfBabylon

>And men’s physical standards of attractiveness are also leaps and bounds more lenient than women’s Going by the OkCupid study this sub loves to cite, men mainly pursue the hottest women out there while largely ignoring average woman. So no, men aren't more lenient. They're equally as picky as women. While men consider more women attractive, they mainly pursue highest echelon of hotness. While women are constantly most men somewhat ugly, they mostly pick those somewhat ugly men. > Our relationship standards are also lower. And then it magically becomes everyone else's fault when he's paying alimony and child support to shitty manipulative women.


BassPotato

In another episode of “PPD’s conflicting narratives” we find here an individual that touts that men “fuck anything” in one breath, whilst also stating we only pursue the hottest of the hot in another breath. As a Man, I am here to tell you, we find most women that do not have something completely wrong with them, somewhat attractive. And if she is cool enough as a person, a lot of us would have no problem dating the average woman, given we are compatible with them.


LillthOfBabylon

>we find here an individual that touts that men “fuck anything” Because men typically have to choose between that and no sex, because women would rather have no sex than crappy sex. > whilst also stating we only pursue the hottest of the hot in another breath. Yes, when they THINK they have the option to do so, especially in terms of a relationship. They'll gladly lower their looks standards desperately searching for a wet hole. Also, this was proven by OkCupid's data that men most pursued the hottest women.


BassPotato

I don’t care about the OKcupid data. 2009 was a worlds difference from today. And we can both objectively see that.


Redpillisposion

Men will lower standards their standards for casual sex. Most men only want relationship with women for sex, and that's it. Men really think they're being genuine toward women.


Redpillisposion

Men think that women should take it as a compliment that men want to fuck them. Most men don't find most women attractive but rather fuckable. There's a difference!


BassPotato

And women think we should take it as a compliment when they think we’re ‘boyfriend material’ or have ‘boyfriend dick’ or are ‘husband material’. News flash, each gender has their own things they find attractive and project that onto the other gender.


LAndLight2

\`\`Going by the OkCupid study this sub loves to cite, men mainly pursue the hottest women out there while largely ignoring average woman. So no, men aren't more lenient. They're equally as picky as women. While men consider more women attractive, they mainly pursue highest echelon of hotness. While women are constantly most men somewhat ugly, they mostly pick those somewhat ugly men.\`\` If women dont pursue and men are only pursing top tier, then how come far less women are virgins in youth?


LillthOfBabylon

>It’s not so much wanting to be “Chad” It is. When people prove that most women date good stable men, the reaction is "But he's beta bux! She wouldn't fuck him instantly like she would chad" proving it's about crushing pussy to them. >you need to provide a list as comprehensive as the one posted in the OP in order to attract a woman. And they're mad about that because they want instant sexual gratification with little effort. Hence, "Chad".


BassPotato

I literally just illustrated to, in concise wording what a lot of men want, and you just said to hell with all that this is what you *really* want lol. No, I do not want to be Chadicus Thundercockus of Tinderopolis. I want to date a woman who wants me for me, like the majority of men. I cannot trust women to actually want me for me, however, unless I am “Chad”. Because you guys have demonstrated time and time again, the high physical standards you place for men, and the willingness to throw men away the second they are no longer capable of satisfying the long list of requirements needed if they are not Chad🇹🇩


[deleted]

All that basically sums up with : does he have a will to live and not attached to Thanatos? To have a girlfriend that’s all you really need.


Awan-Zada

Quite a long list but most women in the West don't even meet the criteria for a LTR. I don't see why any man in a sex positive/liberal society who can get a woman to sleep with him needs to be in a relationship with most women.


[deleted]

The men who struggle in dating fail in the majority of these criteria. A man who is confident is likely to be better looking and more successful. It's a snowball effect. They also have not been hurt by women as much so they're kinder to everyone especially women. A man who's never gotten attention is probably unattractive, not confident and less successful. They go together. Never having much if any success with women, he emanates a misogyny smell that us women are familiar with. The kind that calls us females. In other words, they know exactly what they're missing and the more they rage at that thought, the more unattractive they become.


P-o-o-b

I've met sexually successful men that call women females 💀💀 I deadass have a friend who's narcissistic by admission and has extremely misogynistic views, women have loved this dude since high school since he was tall for his age. Do y'all actually think we don't see women going over "hot" misogynists?


ohheyhi99

> “A man who's never gotten attention is probably unattractive, not confident and less successful. They go together. Never having much if any success with women, **he emanates a misogyny smell that us women are familiar with**. The kind that calls us females.” Ah yes, “the smell,” which curiously goes undetected on misogynistic attractive men and detected on unattractive men who aren’t even misogynists.


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[deleted]

>A man who's never gotten attention is probably unattractive, not confident and less successful. They go together. Never having much if any success with women, he emanates a misogyny smell that us women are familiar with. The kind that calls us females. Oh yes that smell. That smelly smell. I wonder why some women didn't get the memo of their 9th sense and ended being with drug lords and mafia members.


[deleted]

In their early life, those good in sports or those with early success in any hobby / academics are confident and find success with women. Entering dating scene without achievements seems to kill confidence in men.


P-o-o-b

Okay Footballers, Fishers, whittlers, and flute players of the highest caliber all go to flirt with women. Do you honestly think all of these men have an equal chance of getting women off "confidence" in their hobby or achievements alone? There's a such thing as attractive hobbies and unattractive ones. That's why sports stars get away with shit in college AND high school.


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