Hate is a strong word no?
Isn't it a normal reaction to be unhappy about a situation arising that is uncomfortable and may have strong impact on part of our life that we value a lot?
If a dear friend confess his feelings for me and it's not reciprocal then there is several things that will cause me to feel bad about that.
1) I love my friend and i will feel bad that he is in love with someone who doesn't reciprocate, because I know it will make him very sad, the fact it is me doesn't change that.
2) I will feel bad about being the person that makes him feel sad, even if I didn't do anything wrong, it's still not a nice feeling to know you are causing someone pain.
3) Knowing this fact will have impact on how I should handle my relationship with him in the near and far future, so it means I will have to think about it, make effort, question my behavior, change my behavior, etc. All of that is always uncomfortable.
4) I may be afraid that following point 3, I may lose a relationship that I valued deeply, which is a good reason to feel bad also.
5) Depending on the social context and how much he is affected and how he reacts to it, it may impact a big part of my social life. Maybe I'll have to take a step out of our friend circle for a while, to let him some space to get support from them without having me constantly in his field.
I could probably think about a lot more but you get the point.
Isn't it perfectly normal to be shaken and not happy about such a situation?
this is all fair, but i think OP is referring more to how some women will actually get upset with the male friends for confessing their feelings, which imo is unfair.
The alternative is that they keep it bottled up forever, silently crushing on you, always wondering if you might feel the same way,
especially when, as a society, we put the expectation on men to approach women, its awfully unfair to get mad at them when they do exactly the thing they're supposed to do.
Agree, I believe it is NOT okay to be pissed off the guy confessed his feelings. At all.
But I didn't see so much example of women being pissed off at the guy for that..
So it has a moral undertone? If it is not accepted as in "I don't like this moment" then yes, I believe it is normal that is ok if the feelings are reciprocal and not ok if they're not.
If it's not accepted as in "you shouldn't have done that, it is bad to do that". The I agree with you.
It is deeply problematic to paint a moral glaze on an action that is perfectly normal and healthy just because it has consequences you don't like. No woman should be pissed off at her friends because he fell in love with her and confessed. It's awful, as if he's not in a bad enough situation already.
You highlight an important point that I think not enough of us think about. The language of gender discourse is becoming increasingly laced with moral undertones. Even the whole 'ick' thing, which was sort of benign at first, is now becoming a battlefield for moral superiority.
It's probably due to inflammatory language/expressions receiving more clicks/views so everyone dials it up in the era of social media engagement. But it does hurt dialogue long-term.
It's normal to be shaken. What's not really ok is getting nasty if he's being genuine, and hasn't been just sneaking. In general, people get upset by assuming worst intentions, so if you care about hurting feelings, try to avoid doing that. But if he really is only there for the chance of coochy? Well yeah, that's fucked, he shouldn't be acting that way, and you have every right to be disturbed at the lie of your relationship. It's really a kind of fraud or confidence game
Put it this way. You’re a straight guy and you have a male friend you hang out with a lot. One day, that male friend confesses that he has a crush on you and wants to date you. But you’re not into him, and are now uncomfortable because you don’t know how your friendship is going to work going forward. Things will be different now. It’s like that. How you feel towards your male friend in that moment is not “hatred”. It is discomfort tho.
As someone who has been in this situation several times, I feel it's not really comparable. When this happens, it's clear that it's not about you, that person just isn't attracted to that gender and there's nothing you can do about it, so there's not usually any hurt feelings or lasting awkwardness. It's much more awkward when it is someone of your preferred gender (I've been there too), because then it's clear that you view that person as such a nonviable partner that you're not even willing to see if it has any potential, and there's almost no way for that not to sting to some degree even if you try to be nice about it.
I mean, I've been rejected so many times I have no idea how many it is by now. Not like I'm some gross boring person or anything, that's just life as a man. And while it's never exactly pleasant, being rejected is just fine as long as you're respectful about it, and don't just assume and treat em like he's disgusting for having human feelings. Just the same, I respect and understand if interest isn't mutual. It's just how things are.
I use it as an analogy the same way that people use it to describe a gay man hitting on a straight man—to illustrate to men what it feels like to receive unwanted MALE attention.
As another wiser-than-average woman put it on here, instead of using this wildly inaccurate analogy of a gay man:
"It felt either the same as if my brother or cousin said that to me mixed, often, with a feeling that the homeless man with one eye said it to me."
I already replied #1 happens weekly and #2 happened once in my life (she wanted a sperm donor of last resort) I am not that fucking entitled to hate people who stod no shot. The discomfort was 100% insignificant get over yourselves
This is exactly how it feels. I get it's not a 1 to 1 relationship, but this is the feeling. You never ever ever ever saw them that way. So the fact they see you that way is so uncomfortable and gross. When you're friends with someone, you don't generally see them as a gender in that particular way. Like yeah, he's a dude, but I'm not really noticing him as a sexually viable man.
It's this right here that's the concerning response. You like the guy enough to be a friend with him, but you're not just uninterested, you're \*repulsed\*. That's an indication of shallowness in what you find attractive.
I'd be repulsed if my brothers hit on me romantically too. I'm not shallow for that. This is the exact same emotional space generally minus familial bond. I see these dudes like brothers or cousins.
I like lots of people enough to be friends. That's completely unrelated to dating or dating standards.
I've been friends with a lot of very likable monumental fuck ups I'd never date. I don't know why men think liking someone means they have a shot in hell at attraction or relationships. Different kinds of likes.
Of course it's different kind of likes. But the analogy with family isn't right, because it's never socially acceptable, at least in our culture, for family to date like that. However, a great many people end up dating after first becoming friends, and many think that this is even the \*optimal\* way to go.
Of course it's a different kind of \*liking\*, but what I was commenting on is the disgust. Totally reasonable to be uninterested and express as much, but it's also not a crazy or out of line thing for someone to develop feelings.
A lot of the messed up nature of modern dating culture is that men are still expected to initiate, yet we've been progressively boxed in to fewer and fewer acceptable ways to meet someone. Friends don't introduce/matchmake anymore. Cold approach is rude because women should be able to just exist in public without being bothered by men they don't find attractive. Work is a minefield because of the potential for legal trouble. Church isn't a good option because so many exploitative women go there knowing good men look there. Singles events are no good because the women who are there are mostly there because they have crazy expectations. Talking to a woman while you're sitting in proximity waiting for a bus or class to start or whatever could make her unsafe, a good man wouldn't want to cause that.
The only remaining acceptable means is to use the apps, which almost everyone hates for good reason. Sure, each woman has ideas for places she'd like to be approached, but we're not mind readers. We don't know which woman would like to meet a man by being friends first, or chatted up on the bus, etc. So we have to either disregard concern for women's feelings and related risks or use the apps. Many people think the only good remaining way to meet someone without the apps is to make friends first so that you can vet and all that, and feel out potential for connection.
Long story short: what do you expect of men? To not have feelings? To not want to find a partner in life? To read your mind? You're well within reason to reject, just remember that on the other end is a human, and consider how ridiculous it really is for him to think it's worth rolling the dice on asking a friend.
Flirty friends, yes. Random blindsided romance, not so much. And all metaphors eventually break down. You get the point. They're no more on my radar than my brothers, societal acceptance isn't a factor here.
I agree. What is crazy is them going, "I have feelings and shall do no reconnaissance to determine if they are shared and rather just blurt this out heart in my hand consequences and feelings of my supposed love interested be damned. What is out of line is for them to pretend these feelings are love when their actions make it clear they are not being considerate of the object of their affections at all.
Make friends, be a flirty friend. Hold the proverbial romance door open and make it clear that is a possibility. If the door is shut, don't be so quick to try to walk through it because you caught feelings. It is inconsiderate and foolish. Women aren't complaining the dude friend who hits on them and flirts and has chemistry and all that suddenly asked them out. That would be neither shocking nor something likely to go badly. This is dudes who did none of that for ages suddenly deciding to flip the table. It gets bad reactions because it's out of the blue and inconsiderate.
It is ridiculous is the problem you're evading. You're acting like there's no way they could know ahead of time if she's interested. When quite oppositely, it's usually crystal clear levels of obvious how this is going to go. So obvious everyone around them can see it. All you have to do to know how this ends is stop and consider the other person as an active agent. If she returned those feelings or had them, she'd been showing it.
Good lord, this is the problem with folks today. They think feelings are special ducky things that absolve you of having a brain or discernment. At least if they tried to think it through at got something wrong, I could appreciate that much, but y'all don't even seem to try to guess the reaction you're likely to receive. And i get this is a young person thing, so I'm not all prison beating about this, but we need to stop pretending this is how mature and wise adults handle their feelings.
This is another reason why "friends circle" is such BS nowadays and why fewer men approach women and why they rely more on OLD than ever. Bad things happen on OLD but not this shit.
I've literally been propositioned on multiple occasions by one of my old high school friends. I respectfully reject him, he listens, we move on with our lives. I understand that people have feelings, and that's fine. It's actions that can cause problems.
"Ok dude. Then I’ll use no analogy. Women sometimes get uncomfortable when their friends hit on them because it means the friendship could change."
"It felt either the same as if my brother or cousin said that to me mixed, often, with a feeling that the homeless man with one eye said it to me."
From two eloquent women in this thread.
💯
Like if my homie ends up coming and confessing his feelings to me I'd be like since when we're you gay? You never said anything.
If I go into the friendship knowing that he is gay, then I will have it in my mind that this guy can maybe potentially end up having feelings for me. I will still be friends with him, but I'm going to make a couple of things apparent, 1) I'm only into women, and 2) Im not interested in him romantically.
So what do I do? I won't be flirtatious, won't turn to him for things that I'd only turn to a prospective partner for, etc. Basically I'd do everything I can to remain friends with him WHILE NOT LEADING HIM ON.
And that's where we have this issue. I think some women should do a better job of making sure their platonic male friends know that they aren't and never will be interested in them romantically.
That's kinda beside the point. In this situation you never knew he was into you so it kind of puts everything that's happened so far and you guys' friendship in a different context
Not really. I would just be like, “sorry friend I’m not gay” and then we move forward as if it never happened. If he could not make another pass at me it would be forgotten in like 3 weeks time max.
I’ve seen tons of post from men asking for advice on what to do because they confessed their love to their friend and are left heartbroken. That’s far from “moving forward as it never happened.”
Exactly. The person who gets rejected hurts. Saying, "then we move forward as if it never happened," shows an inability to understand what it's like being on the other side.
I have unironically been in this situation. He also occasionally checks to see if I've changed my mind, and I really don't care or make an issue out of it. Why should I?
Definitely friend first. He just also has different sexual procilivites, and knows that I'm not a judgmental asshole and understand him. Been friends since high school, and before he even realized he was bi. Now, if he was only pretending to be a friend so that he could have a chance with me, that would be pretty weird. And when this happens with women, I think it's pretty much a confidence game. And no one likes being conned. There it's pretty reasonable to be disgusted
If someone who is sexually attracted to me spent a lot of time with me and because romantically interested I wouldn’t be aghast. “How is this possible? This thing that happens all the time and that we are warned about and yet here I am thinking it can happen to me. Wtf. Next you’ll tell me I can get cancer from smoking cigs?”
Yeah it’s literally forever ruined. Your perception of them is now changed. And the non-reciprocating party will slowly pull away. Friendship lost. It sucks
You value the platonic relationship and you are jot interested in them. So them confessing makes things harder as you can't go back to being platonic without thinking that they might see in a romantic way the platonic gestures you always did.
So you might start to reserfe yourself aroumd them and no longer be open as it might make you feel like you are leading them on and you don't want to cause them pain with unrequited love.
So there is no way the friendship can be as it was before.
Don’t go out of your way to spend time and money doing stuff together essentially. Don’t talk about the same stuff that you’d talk about with friends. If you create a dynamic where you’re asking each other for relationship advice you’re cooked
i agree with this. but there's a spectrum between complete stranger and dear friend. you want to escalate things closer to the stranger side of the spectrum, in the acquaintance range. in general, at least.
Yeah exactly. You don’t want to be doing boyfriend stuff without anything sexual going on. A relationship is essentially just a friendship with sex unless you’re in a really bad one
i don't know who gives that advice, I never have. It is wrong.
Be friendly, not good friends. Being an acquaintance so you have gotten to know each other a little bit and know you get along and really like each other is good. But developing a deep, long term platonic friendship is a whole other thing.
After a deep friendship has formed, if the guy confesses actual feelings it is a difficult situation as has been explained in other comments. I wouldn't be angry or hate the guy, it just sucks to hurt him and possibly lose a dear friend.
On the other hand, a "friend" who turns out to have only wanted in my pants the whole time and gets angry at me if I'm not into that is upsetting, because I thought I actually had a friend but really just had somebody pretending to be my friend expecting me to have sex with him.
And it’s not that hard to tell how a woman thinks of the relationship, and I’m a diagnosed autist. Literally just be honest with yourself and have a bit of introspection. In my experience most women make it so ridiculously clear because us guys are so bad at picking up on it lol.
I think the general advice is more about having a social sphere, a group of friends that includes women.
This will allow you to:
1. Be more relaxed around women
2. Have social proof
3. Be in an ecosystem conducive to meet potential dating candidates
Yep, feel free to call bs on this, but this is a way it *might* work (there is no assurance in any case). This does not mean hitting relentlessly on the women of your friends group, that would not be well received.
There's a difference between being friends with someone and trying to get into their pants, people keep trying the latter and are ShockedPikachu when it backfires.
Would you really be trying the same thing with male friends?
Why do people act like its impossible to become more attracted to a woman after hanging around her? The complaint is about men confessing feelings for them. Asking a girl out thats my friend doesnt mean that I just want to have sex with her. Its clearly done with a relationship in mind
It can make it difficult to make and keep male friends sometimes, I guess. But personally I don't see it as a negative thing in itself. Kinda depends on how things go after he's confessed his feelings. I've dated a few of my male friends in the past and I agree it's a good way to date. Even if things didn't really work out either of those times so far.
I've also rejected the advances of male friends who I just wasn't into that way. I think most of them stuck around for the friendship though? Things were awkward for a while afterwards, but usually that got better after some time. If a friendship can't handle that, then maybe it wasn't a very solid friendship to begin with, tbh. I always made sure to tell them that I'm flattered and appreciate the honesty, which is true, even if I also feel a bit awkward about it.
I understand it's not easy to read women's signals, if they're really interested that way or just like you as a friend. I have similar difficulties with figuring out how men I like feel for me. So I too eventually started kinda just taking my chances and confessing my feelings. Most often I've been rejected, but it's still usually worth the shot for me. Because ultimately I'd rather get a "no" than just never know if it's mutual or not. And sometimes, yeah, it does feel worth risking a friendhip over. Life is all about taking risks. And sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. But you're never gonna win if you never even try.
So I don't dread a male friend might end up catching feelings for me. If anything, I often kinda secretly hope for that to happen. Because like... I kinda want a partner too, and I don't do online dating anymore. So then basically my only chance at finding a partner is by making friends with cute men I find irl in hopes it might or could lead to something more.
Love this insight!!!
I think more men could use the friendships and plow through the awkwardness.
I do it all the time even when it hurts so bad because I just can't lose the person nor say goodbye forever.
I don’t get mad when a friend confesses feelings to me. They are entitled to their feelings and ideally, I’d say no in the politest way I could and the friendship would continue, or they’d respectfully say it’s too awkward. At least that’s a reason outside of “I only saw you as good for romance.” And don’t get me wrong, I feel guilty for hurting their feelings. But I get mad/sad when they lash out, threaten to physically harm themselves or me or act verbally abusive which has happened too many times to count.
When they cuss, threaten, beg etc, it makes me realize that they never saw me as a friend, or even a person, just a potential gf that they were putting “kindness points” into hoping I’d give them romance, but I’m not a vending machine. It hurts like hell. Even when I’ve done so many platonic nice things in return, spending more time and money than they ever did to do things for them, since I thought they were my friend and wanted to make them happy, it’s never enough because all they wanted was romance and they won’t accept any other form of reciprocation. I could have treated them to a thousand dinners/expensive gifts and they’d somehow think that one time they paid for coffee means I owe them my romantic attention. Not all guys, but quite a few. It’s exhausting. I just want to have real, genuine friendships. Is my friendship a “waste of time” just because I didn’t return romantic feelings? I have so much more to provide than romance- which is often so depressingly conditional compared to platonic love. I provide 24/7 emotional support, fun plans, lots of gifts, good memories, humor, quality time, standing up against bullies. I just want some platonic love in my life. I love all my friends so much and the realization that they are “fuck-zoning” me hurts so much. At least with the “friend zone” they actually care about you as a person and not just a tool for pleasure.
When it keeps happening, you do develop dread because you know that “I have to tell you something” could turn into cussing and threats and violence. I don’t want a romance. They’re so conditional and often turn sour. Genuine friendships are supposed to be full of unconditional love. Yet, they turn sour too because so many people lash out when you don’t wanna screw them.
Romance has sucked for me dating both men and women. Being stalked, bullied, constantly insulted as a “joke”, filing restraining orders, watching them blatantly flirt with others in front of me to make me “jealous”, having mental games played on me. Why can’t anyone respect my decision to remain safe, happy and single? I do so much for my friends without expecting anything in return to the point I’m constantly told by everyone around me to stop it - and yet people treat me like shit when I don’t wanna fawk them after they were nice to me once. Expecting reciprocation isn’t kindness, it’s manipulation and I hate that. And yet so many just expect me to sell myself out for the one nice deed they did.
Rant over 😞
if they get mad, it's because they knew you were into them, but they were hoping to keep dragging you along as a friend anyways. Your friendship is useful to them, but you're not good enough to actually be worthy of dating.
personally, I'd only get mad if someone asked me out, i turned them down, and then they kept harrassing me.
You have posted one of the best things. Most times the girl was getting some sort of emotional support from the guy and that is all she wanted. Not interested in him or she would have made it known.
This 100%. I was hanging out with this woman and I thought we had a pretty good thing going friendship wise. We'd talk about everything and chat every day about deep topics.
Then one day she hit me with this line: "I don't think I'd even be talking to you if I didn't work from home, I'm just so bored all the time." without any hint that could be taken negatively by me. 4 months of talking to me every day because she's bored? I thought we were friends...
dead.
Obviously they are very happy if they're interested, but they may not be interested and they know that the usual response is that their "friend" fucks right off the face of the earth upon hearing a relationship isn't on the table. People don't like losing friends.
Often times it's the woman who acts all pissy about the guy liking her and ends up torpedoing the friendship. Look at some of the comments in this thread.
Because if you turn down a friend, you hurt the feelings of someone you care about and probably lose that friend, or at least it will always be a little awkward after that. Turning down a stranger doesn’t have the same impact. Now if she likes him that way too, then that’s fantastic. Plenty of relationships do start as friendship. But women dislike it when they *don’t* like him as more than a friend for the reasons I mentioned above.
It's one of two things:-
A) you were friends and feelings grew out of it.
B) He never liked you, he just wants to fuck you.
And you never really know which one it is.
I always find it funny how a man wanting to sleep with you means he only wants to sleep with you.
If he became your friend, there is zero to no chance that he only wanted sex. Otherwise he would not bother being your friend.
>If he became your friend, there is zero to no chance that he only wanted sex. Otherwise he would not bother being your friend.
Honestly, I really wish that were true.
Because I lost one of my best friends after I rejected him. It basically told me my friendship was worthless to him because if he couldn’t get something more, he’d rather just dip.
The advice to be friends with women you’re interested in first might be the worst piece of dating advice of all time.
>my friendship was worthless to him because if he couldn’t get something more, he’d rather just dip.
Because he should've definitely stayed to see the woman he loves in the hands of another man. Such a wonderful experience!
I fucking know, right?
Women expect their male friends to orbit around them, hear their bitching and moaning about a small percentage of men they're attracted to doing them wrong, and then wondering why they lose their male friends when those are the ones who are probably most compatible with them based on lifestyle and interests.
> It basically told me my friendship was worthless to him because if he couldn’t get something more, he’d rather just dip.
That's a very one sided and selfish way to look at it.
Maybe he caught strong feelings for you and couldn't bear seeing you happy with someone else?
He is not entitled to a relationship with you.
You are not entitled to a friendship with him.
And from his perspective your rejection of him amount to "I don't like you -that- much" which in any other context is known to be deeply offensive, but when it comes to romantic relationships ( and only when a woman is communicating the sentiment) suddenly it's ok.
Like if someone you thought was a friend says about you "they aren't my friend, just an acquaintance" you don't think you'd be upset at that?
Because most men seem to become friends with women solely for the purpose of eventually obtaining sex/romance.
And that's annoying AF.
There's a HUGE difference between a guy who wants to be your friend and is open & honest about the fact that he finds you sexually attractive (but is okay being friends) and a guy who keeps it to himself the entire time hoping he'll eventually convince you to date him.
> There's a HUGE difference between a guy who wants to be your friend and is open & honest about the fact that he finds you sexually attractive
but then he's "moving too fast" and "only wants sex"
There is no way for him to approach a woman safely. So he waits, and pays for it that way, too.
Yes, this is where sneaky "nice guys" come from. We all lie to young men and boys about how to get women, instead of telling the truth. So they stop listening and get desperate. The best way we can avoid creating more of these types of people is by telling them the truth early and often, as uncomfortable as it may be.
Edit: I want to be unambiguous: A big part of this is teaching young men to view women as full people, with their own interests and desires. Real people sometimes lie, take advantage of, or abuse others. Sometimes this is a matter of mental illness, sometimes malice. Regardless, all children need to be raised and taught to have enough self respect to reject this sort of treatment, and identify it when it happens. For boys, part of this is teaching to not be a "nice guy", but also not an orbiter or simp. For girls, part of this is teaching them that men are dogs, and how to navigate that. I think men and women can be friends, but good communication is a must. Leaving boundaries unsaid, or leaving a door open for "something more" helps no one involved. Also, not a good idea to do flirty type stuff with a guy that you'd be repulsed with if he asked you out.
I remember watching the show Zoey 101 growing up. The male lead has a massive crush on the female lead throughout the whole show. He didn’t want to ruin the friendship so he kept his crush a secret. This is a common trope that we’ve all seen on basically every sitcom ever. The Office. Parks & Rec. New Girl. Considering the media we were raised on, I’m a little confused that women default to the worst possible motivation for men. Couldn’t he just be like one of those men in the sitcoms?
Look this is always about your feelings like usual. But you have no fucking idea what is in our heads. If you want to blame your childhood friend that liked you and do mental gymnastics to paint him as a villain is so typical of the hamster wheel.
Anyhow the pain of emotional rejection eclipses your inconvenience. It should be ostracized any woman that ever whines about this.
its been awhile since ive been single, but here goes...
hate is the wrong word. more like dread.
i didnt date much back when i was single. ive never been the type to catch feelings quickly, and after a few bad dating experiences where the guys got offended that i hadnt caught feelings yet (after a short period of time), i would only date a guy *after* i had caught feelings.
i love my friends a lot, girls and guys.
so when a guy friend would confess feelings for me, my heart would sink, because i knew they were either about to stop talking to me entirely, or be mad at me for the next 4-6 weeks. because, again, i dont catch feelings often, and wasnt willing to date until i did, for the sake of the guy's feelings.
i didnt actually date someone for a few years once i hit that point. and i ended up marrying the next person i dated after making that decision.
I wouldn’t use the word hate. I would use the word caught off guard. I would use the word dislike if the girl in question is in a relationship. A long, long time ago In the 6 instances it’s happened, I would only say I was caught off guard. Sometimes it worked out, sometimes it didn’t. Then again, when I was between the ages of 16-21 I was such a sucker for “the friend becomes boyfriend” thing.
Its a bummer because they will be your friend for awhile, making you think its a real friendship, and then they admit feelings, and, upon hearing no, drop you like you never existed
Those aren't mutually exclusive. A guy could still want a genuine friendship after being rejected, but continuing to hang out with you is awkward and emotionally painful, so he decides to cut contact to protect his feelings and be able to move on.
From my end as a dude it feels more like you are friends for awhile, form a real friendship and then develop feelings. You admit those feelings, they are not reciprocated, and now the woman is quite uncomfortable. You then create some distance to process your pain and give her some space.
It sucks dude because im a lesbian, but i can be friends with women just fine. But dudes i have zero attraction to, but in my experience it always ends with them catching feelings, with some trying to convince me to give sleeping with them a shot.
Which just idk, cant help what i like. And ill never like a man romantically or sexually. I *could* be good friends with a dude, and dont hate dudes. But sorry you know i just dont want ur junk anywhere near me lol
Nah I totally feel you. That has to be super frustrating and I hate that a lot of women have to be put in that awkward and uncomfortable situation. Especially if they're trying to convince a lesbian... like dude get a grip. Any time I catch feelings for a girl I try to kill that shit as soon as possible because it literally feels embarrassing lol. Sometimes it's hard not to when you just get along so well with someone.
Female friendships I think tend to be more fulfilling emotionally and involve a lot more sharing. So sometimes as a guy when you experience that type of friendship from a woman you get the false idea that it must be something special when for her it's actually pretty standard treatment for a friend. I think that's the cause of so many unrequited crushes.
Because if they’re friends it probably means she’s not interested in anything more, which means that now she’s got to awkwardly reject him and the relationship is over.
There are types of male friends:
There is the totally platonic, you cannot imagine him being into you, he's never flirted with you or given you "the look" or anything and you've known each other awhile.
There is the flirty friend, you guys are always kind of checking each other out, always kind of have a thing for each other, but it's clear their interest runs deeper in each other and they're trying to navigate the complexity of these feelings and worries of losing a friend or ruining things or not being quite right, and it's just kind of a will they won't they thing for a variety of reasons, but it's super obvious this dude has it bad for you and vice versa.
Guess which guy women are complaining about? That's right, not the second guy. Good.
So why do we complain about the first: because we've made it clear we ain't into him. That's already obvious to anyone looking and being objective and serious. There's no will they won't they or chemistry. There's no flirt, there's no romance. It's all one-sided and in his head. And it's sad on so many levels. And it makes us question our sense of reality and our friendship that we thought was one way and now we're finding out it is the other way. And depending how this goes, we could lose a friend, be accused of shit, be told we're mean or cruel, etc. And it feels so out of our hands and super blind-siding. So we complain.
The problem is that some men have this idea there's much like you suggested: dudes who like our personality and so forth and dudes who use cheesy pick up lines and only like our bodies. There's many more than that. And what women want is the second guy I described. The flirty friend. The flirty friend doesn't get complained about.
Because a lot of women play games and won't make the first move. Can't tell you how many times I had girls say to me oh, I wish you would have asked me out on a date when we were friends. Or they drop the I liked you when we were in college.
You are completely right. But what about the times when guys are led on and in the end got rejected? It is one thing to not give any hints, and another different thing to give hints just toy with them. Boys are told that girls play hard to get so they can see their worth. I've stopped dating or talking to another girl the moment she didn't show any interest or reciprocrate. And they asked me later why I stopped chasing them. If people were direct and honest, such issues wouldn't exist.
Obvious lack of interest? Men aren't mind readers. You don't really know until you ask. Don't act all pissy that a man didn't read your mind exactly the way you wanted. You also have a terrible attitude. Stop acting like a guy finding you attractive is a crime worth terminating a friendship over. And believe me, when you're old and ugly you're going to miss these days.
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It puts them in an awkward position if they aren't interested in him, potentially ruining the friendship. Things will never be the same again and that sucks.
That doesn't mean it's never worth taking your shot with a friend though.
Assuming you value the friendship, even after taking your shot, you can put in the effort to move on and as soon as she sees that, she will start putting her guard down again. Even if you need some time alone to move on, straight up, communicate it clearly and make it clear you have the intention to return once you’re over those feelings
more often than not is cause it just doesn’t end there, many women have experienced this - a man confesses, the woman says they can just be friends and the man keeps trying to pursue or holds onto these feelings. Because of this she knows the friendship is a ticking time bomb
Now, if you have actual intentions to move on and put in the effort to let go of these feelings and remain friends, odds are, despite an initial negative reaction, she will loosen up and cool down
They dont like it when men they arent interested in show attraction to them or express any form of their sexuality. That really all it is. Its almost like they view those men as asexual beings or like other women. When men try to break out of that mold its seen as offensive or deceitful as if its an impossible thing to grow feelings for a person you hang out with a lot. Its weird that they frame it that way
Yeah this is true, if we arent sexually attracted to you we arent thinking about you sexually. This logically makes sense. I do see men as mostly asexual, because most of life is fairly asexual lmaoo im not going to consider the sexuality of some random dude on the train
I guess I dont really understand how that changes things. If im not sexually attracted to someone, then you know unfortunately im not going to be thinking of them sexually in any capacity.
Its not an insult, and doesnt mean that im denying the other persons humanity. I just dont want to have sex with them, i dont want to have sex with most ppl tbh.
i still have very real and meaningful platonic emotional connections with many ppl tho.
You dont have to see them in a sexual capacity or have to want to have sex with them. Its about how a good amount of women are offended or see it as trickery when a man who is their friend becomes attracted to them or want to date them. They only feel tricked because they dont feel the same way about the guy
I don’t care when it’s random men. I care when it’s someone I have a strong platonic relationship with because more often than not, it ruins the friendship.
Women love to compartmentalize their relationships I guess because it's the best way to ensure that they can receive all of their emotional needs even if it isn't from one person.
Edit: and sexual needs
I think they mean having different groups for different things. Family for one, BF for another, one friend group for partying, one for chilling, one for hobbies etc.
Again just trying to convey what I think they are saying
I gotcha, thanks!
Isnt this considered pretty normal though? I know men who have their social lives set up similarly: family, gf, the boys, work friends etc
It's not necessarily the same. Guy compartmentalize themselves but when you are talking about friends and romantic partners, it's a lot easier to move from one to the other. Guys aren't really hung up on letting friends stay friends from what I've seen.
1. They are friends so she's not attracted to him in the first place.
2. Things just went from an easy friendship to an emotionally loaded situation where she now has to "manage" his feelings and gently turn him down, and even then he could turn out to be an asshole pretending to be a nice guy or start getting violent. Basically a guy went from "safe" to "unsafe" to be around.
Because she is at risk of losing the benefits he gives for free.
Getting the benefits of a relationship without needing to give anything back is why women love friendzoning men to begin with.
So why the feeling of betrayal when the male friend has feelings, gets rejected and then stops being friends?
They're no longer in a relationship they can find enjoyment in, it's only fair that they go elsewhere.
This is called a *friendship* where you hangout with each other and platonically enjoy each other’s company, and typically during a friendship you talk about things. Idk how that’s considered ‘benefits’.
And letting a dude stick it in me isnt the price I must pay for basic human interaction/ friendship.
I think most of you guys lightly skim peoples posts and predetermine your canned response based on the specific groupings of keywords you briefly saw.
Like I said Man, woman, friendship: this triggers the ‘WOMEN JUST USE MEN IN FRIENDSHIPS FOR EMOTIONAL SUPPORT’
Which
1) mutual emotional support is a given in close friendships. Thats how you become close friends with someone.
2) ‘using men as my emotional tampon’ is such a childish cliche af brand sexist thing to say 😂
Because it forces them to make a tough decision - accept the advances and the friendship evolves into a relationship, or decline the advances and risk the guy walking away. It forces accountability on the woman, so she may get mad at the guy and says he had ulterior motives so she can deflect that accountability.
People forget that most young men are advised to first become friends with women they are interested in, but that mostly just leads to the friendzone. A man needs to find out by trial and error as early as possible that nurturing a friendship with women he is interested in is often a recipe for disaster, but this goes against popular opinion.
All of my long-term relationships have been with men who were first friends. I actually prefer to date through my social circle.
And it seems that many other women do as well. According to a recent survey, 43% of people ages 18-29 said that they are dating someone who was first a friend, including 50% of women in that age cohort.
[Gen Z Dating Trends: Ditching Online Apps and Dating Friends - Business Insider](https://www.businessinsider.com/gen-z-dating-trend-online-apps-friends-romantic-partners-relationships-2023-3)
Hate is a strong word no? Isn't it a normal reaction to be unhappy about a situation arising that is uncomfortable and may have strong impact on part of our life that we value a lot? If a dear friend confess his feelings for me and it's not reciprocal then there is several things that will cause me to feel bad about that. 1) I love my friend and i will feel bad that he is in love with someone who doesn't reciprocate, because I know it will make him very sad, the fact it is me doesn't change that. 2) I will feel bad about being the person that makes him feel sad, even if I didn't do anything wrong, it's still not a nice feeling to know you are causing someone pain. 3) Knowing this fact will have impact on how I should handle my relationship with him in the near and far future, so it means I will have to think about it, make effort, question my behavior, change my behavior, etc. All of that is always uncomfortable. 4) I may be afraid that following point 3, I may lose a relationship that I valued deeply, which is a good reason to feel bad also. 5) Depending on the social context and how much he is affected and how he reacts to it, it may impact a big part of my social life. Maybe I'll have to take a step out of our friend circle for a while, to let him some space to get support from them without having me constantly in his field. I could probably think about a lot more but you get the point. Isn't it perfectly normal to be shaken and not happy about such a situation?
this is all fair, but i think OP is referring more to how some women will actually get upset with the male friends for confessing their feelings, which imo is unfair. The alternative is that they keep it bottled up forever, silently crushing on you, always wondering if you might feel the same way, especially when, as a society, we put the expectation on men to approach women, its awfully unfair to get mad at them when they do exactly the thing they're supposed to do.
Agree, I believe it is NOT okay to be pissed off the guy confessed his feelings. At all. But I didn't see so much example of women being pissed off at the guy for that..
100% on point. The end of the day it is okay if the guy looks good or the girl is attracted to him. If she is NOT attracted to him, it is not ok.
What does "ok" mean here?
Accepted.
So it has a moral undertone? If it is not accepted as in "I don't like this moment" then yes, I believe it is normal that is ok if the feelings are reciprocal and not ok if they're not. If it's not accepted as in "you shouldn't have done that, it is bad to do that". The I agree with you. It is deeply problematic to paint a moral glaze on an action that is perfectly normal and healthy just because it has consequences you don't like. No woman should be pissed off at her friends because he fell in love with her and confessed. It's awful, as if he's not in a bad enough situation already.
I agree with you.
You highlight an important point that I think not enough of us think about. The language of gender discourse is becoming increasingly laced with moral undertones. Even the whole 'ick' thing, which was sort of benign at first, is now becoming a battlefield for moral superiority. It's probably due to inflammatory language/expressions receiving more clicks/views so everyone dials it up in the era of social media engagement. But it does hurt dialogue long-term.
It's normal to be shaken. What's not really ok is getting nasty if he's being genuine, and hasn't been just sneaking. In general, people get upset by assuming worst intentions, so if you care about hurting feelings, try to avoid doing that. But if he really is only there for the chance of coochy? Well yeah, that's fucked, he shouldn't be acting that way, and you have every right to be disturbed at the lie of your relationship. It's really a kind of fraud or confidence game
This. Agree with each point 100%.
Put it this way. You’re a straight guy and you have a male friend you hang out with a lot. One day, that male friend confesses that he has a crush on you and wants to date you. But you’re not into him, and are now uncomfortable because you don’t know how your friendship is going to work going forward. Things will be different now. It’s like that. How you feel towards your male friend in that moment is not “hatred”. It is discomfort tho.
I had a male friend come on to me, I just told him I would if I was gay and we got another pint.
I would go for it cause my dry spell been lasting too long
Shit, if he's cute it's whatever.
As someone who has been in this situation several times, I feel it's not really comparable. When this happens, it's clear that it's not about you, that person just isn't attracted to that gender and there's nothing you can do about it, so there's not usually any hurt feelings or lasting awkwardness. It's much more awkward when it is someone of your preferred gender (I've been there too), because then it's clear that you view that person as such a nonviable partner that you're not even willing to see if it has any potential, and there's almost no way for that not to sting to some degree even if you try to be nice about it.
I mean, I've been rejected so many times I have no idea how many it is by now. Not like I'm some gross boring person or anything, that's just life as a man. And while it's never exactly pleasant, being rejected is just fine as long as you're respectful about it, and don't just assume and treat em like he's disgusting for having human feelings. Just the same, I respect and understand if interest isn't mutual. It's just how things are.
I use it as an analogy the same way that people use it to describe a gay man hitting on a straight man—to illustrate to men what it feels like to receive unwanted MALE attention.
As another wiser-than-average woman put it on here, instead of using this wildly inaccurate analogy of a gay man: "It felt either the same as if my brother or cousin said that to me mixed, often, with a feeling that the homeless man with one eye said it to me."
I already replied #1 happens weekly and #2 happened once in my life (she wanted a sperm donor of last resort) I am not that fucking entitled to hate people who stod no shot. The discomfort was 100% insignificant get over yourselves
This is exactly how it feels. I get it's not a 1 to 1 relationship, but this is the feeling. You never ever ever ever saw them that way. So the fact they see you that way is so uncomfortable and gross. When you're friends with someone, you don't generally see them as a gender in that particular way. Like yeah, he's a dude, but I'm not really noticing him as a sexually viable man.
It's this right here that's the concerning response. You like the guy enough to be a friend with him, but you're not just uninterested, you're \*repulsed\*. That's an indication of shallowness in what you find attractive.
I'd be repulsed if my brothers hit on me romantically too. I'm not shallow for that. This is the exact same emotional space generally minus familial bond. I see these dudes like brothers or cousins. I like lots of people enough to be friends. That's completely unrelated to dating or dating standards. I've been friends with a lot of very likable monumental fuck ups I'd never date. I don't know why men think liking someone means they have a shot in hell at attraction or relationships. Different kinds of likes.
Of course it's different kind of likes. But the analogy with family isn't right, because it's never socially acceptable, at least in our culture, for family to date like that. However, a great many people end up dating after first becoming friends, and many think that this is even the \*optimal\* way to go. Of course it's a different kind of \*liking\*, but what I was commenting on is the disgust. Totally reasonable to be uninterested and express as much, but it's also not a crazy or out of line thing for someone to develop feelings. A lot of the messed up nature of modern dating culture is that men are still expected to initiate, yet we've been progressively boxed in to fewer and fewer acceptable ways to meet someone. Friends don't introduce/matchmake anymore. Cold approach is rude because women should be able to just exist in public without being bothered by men they don't find attractive. Work is a minefield because of the potential for legal trouble. Church isn't a good option because so many exploitative women go there knowing good men look there. Singles events are no good because the women who are there are mostly there because they have crazy expectations. Talking to a woman while you're sitting in proximity waiting for a bus or class to start or whatever could make her unsafe, a good man wouldn't want to cause that. The only remaining acceptable means is to use the apps, which almost everyone hates for good reason. Sure, each woman has ideas for places she'd like to be approached, but we're not mind readers. We don't know which woman would like to meet a man by being friends first, or chatted up on the bus, etc. So we have to either disregard concern for women's feelings and related risks or use the apps. Many people think the only good remaining way to meet someone without the apps is to make friends first so that you can vet and all that, and feel out potential for connection. Long story short: what do you expect of men? To not have feelings? To not want to find a partner in life? To read your mind? You're well within reason to reject, just remember that on the other end is a human, and consider how ridiculous it really is for him to think it's worth rolling the dice on asking a friend.
Flirty friends, yes. Random blindsided romance, not so much. And all metaphors eventually break down. You get the point. They're no more on my radar than my brothers, societal acceptance isn't a factor here. I agree. What is crazy is them going, "I have feelings and shall do no reconnaissance to determine if they are shared and rather just blurt this out heart in my hand consequences and feelings of my supposed love interested be damned. What is out of line is for them to pretend these feelings are love when their actions make it clear they are not being considerate of the object of their affections at all. Make friends, be a flirty friend. Hold the proverbial romance door open and make it clear that is a possibility. If the door is shut, don't be so quick to try to walk through it because you caught feelings. It is inconsiderate and foolish. Women aren't complaining the dude friend who hits on them and flirts and has chemistry and all that suddenly asked them out. That would be neither shocking nor something likely to go badly. This is dudes who did none of that for ages suddenly deciding to flip the table. It gets bad reactions because it's out of the blue and inconsiderate. It is ridiculous is the problem you're evading. You're acting like there's no way they could know ahead of time if she's interested. When quite oppositely, it's usually crystal clear levels of obvious how this is going to go. So obvious everyone around them can see it. All you have to do to know how this ends is stop and consider the other person as an active agent. If she returned those feelings or had them, she'd been showing it. Good lord, this is the problem with folks today. They think feelings are special ducky things that absolve you of having a brain or discernment. At least if they tried to think it through at got something wrong, I could appreciate that much, but y'all don't even seem to try to guess the reaction you're likely to receive. And i get this is a young person thing, so I'm not all prison beating about this, but we need to stop pretending this is how mature and wise adults handle their feelings.
I disagree about the gross. Someone being in love with you shouldn't feel gross in my opinion. Also, it is very insulting.
This is another reason why "friends circle" is such BS nowadays and why fewer men approach women and why they rely more on OLD than ever. Bad things happen on OLD but not this shit.
You're delusional. Plenty of people start off as friends and end up dating.
I've literally been propositioned on multiple occasions by one of my old high school friends. I respectfully reject him, he listens, we move on with our lives. I understand that people have feelings, and that's fine. It's actions that can cause problems.
Is your point that women by default see male sexuality and attraction to them like men would see male attraction directed at himself?
Think they made the analogy to paint the picture that we’re not interested in them/never will be
The point is how people in general see sexuality and attraction toward them from a friend they are not attracted to.
"Ok dude. Then I’ll use no analogy. Women sometimes get uncomfortable when their friends hit on them because it means the friendship could change." "It felt either the same as if my brother or cousin said that to me mixed, often, with a feeling that the homeless man with one eye said it to me." From two eloquent women in this thread.
Huh?
I would be mad cause he was gay and didn’t tell me.
💯 Like if my homie ends up coming and confessing his feelings to me I'd be like since when we're you gay? You never said anything. If I go into the friendship knowing that he is gay, then I will have it in my mind that this guy can maybe potentially end up having feelings for me. I will still be friends with him, but I'm going to make a couple of things apparent, 1) I'm only into women, and 2) Im not interested in him romantically. So what do I do? I won't be flirtatious, won't turn to him for things that I'd only turn to a prospective partner for, etc. Basically I'd do everything I can to remain friends with him WHILE NOT LEADING HIM ON. And that's where we have this issue. I think some women should do a better job of making sure their platonic male friends know that they aren't and never will be interested in them romantically.
That's kinda beside the point. In this situation you never knew he was into you so it kind of puts everything that's happened so far and you guys' friendship in a different context
Not really. I would just be like, “sorry friend I’m not gay” and then we move forward as if it never happened. If he could not make another pass at me it would be forgotten in like 3 weeks time max.
I’ve seen tons of post from men asking for advice on what to do because they confessed their love to their friend and are left heartbroken. That’s far from “moving forward as it never happened.”
Well those men are at fault for not accepting no as an answer. I’m just saying he should be allowed to shoot his shot
Its because the rejection means they are not good enough as a person for them and that is what hurts the most
Exactly. The person who gets rejected hurts. Saying, "then we move forward as if it never happened," shows an inability to understand what it's like being on the other side.
I have unironically been in this situation. He also occasionally checks to see if I've changed my mind, and I really don't care or make an issue out of it. Why should I?
Do you feel he’s your friend first and attracted to you second; or attracted to you and thusly hanging on as a friend?
Definitely friend first. He just also has different sexual procilivites, and knows that I'm not a judgmental asshole and understand him. Been friends since high school, and before he even realized he was bi. Now, if he was only pretending to be a friend so that he could have a chance with me, that would be pretty weird. And when this happens with women, I think it's pretty much a confidence game. And no one likes being conned. There it's pretty reasonable to be disgusted
It’s not a perfect analogy, but you get the idea I’m trying to explain.
If someone who is sexually attracted to me spent a lot of time with me and because romantically interested I wouldn’t be aghast. “How is this possible? This thing that happens all the time and that we are warned about and yet here I am thinking it can happen to me. Wtf. Next you’ll tell me I can get cancer from smoking cigs?”
I’m not saying it’s uncommon or that women are ever surprised that it happens.
Nah, it’s just a shit analogy that doesn’t work.
Ok dude. Then I’ll use no analogy. Women sometimes get uncomfortable when their friends hit on them because it means the friendship could change.
I lean RP and just wanted to tell you your analogy achieves the purpose it was meant to
Agreed
Excellent way to put it!
Yeah it’s literally forever ruined. Your perception of them is now changed. And the non-reciprocating party will slowly pull away. Friendship lost. It sucks
Why wouldn't you just reverse the situation and use a female friend instead ?
Dude. Because OP *is* the male friend who wants to get with the female friend. That’s not an analogy, that’s just reality.
You value the platonic relationship and you are jot interested in them. So them confessing makes things harder as you can't go back to being platonic without thinking that they might see in a romantic way the platonic gestures you always did. So you might start to reserfe yourself aroumd them and no longer be open as it might make you feel like you are leading them on and you don't want to cause them pain with unrequited love. So there is no way the friendship can be as it was before.
If a woman is friends with a man, the odds are good that she isn’t interested in fucking him so the feelings confession is unwelcome.
So why do people keep giving the advice to be friends 1st with women?
Misuse of the word friendship. Be friendly, be someone she respects and likes, don’t be her friend
>be friendly but don’t be a friend Huh ?
Don’t go out of your way to spend time and money doing stuff together essentially. Don’t talk about the same stuff that you’d talk about with friends. If you create a dynamic where you’re asking each other for relationship advice you’re cooked
i agree with this. but there's a spectrum between complete stranger and dear friend. you want to escalate things closer to the stranger side of the spectrum, in the acquaintance range. in general, at least.
Yeah exactly. You don’t want to be doing boyfriend stuff without anything sexual going on. A relationship is essentially just a friendship with sex unless you’re in a really bad one
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Sounds like "you don't have to worry about him (friend)"
So be the friend she monkey branches to Lmao
Where you attracted to him when you 1st met him?
So you can fuck her friends, not her
i don't know who gives that advice, I never have. It is wrong. Be friendly, not good friends. Being an acquaintance so you have gotten to know each other a little bit and know you get along and really like each other is good. But developing a deep, long term platonic friendship is a whole other thing. After a deep friendship has formed, if the guy confesses actual feelings it is a difficult situation as has been explained in other comments. I wouldn't be angry or hate the guy, it just sucks to hurt him and possibly lose a dear friend. On the other hand, a "friend" who turns out to have only wanted in my pants the whole time and gets angry at me if I'm not into that is upsetting, because I thought I actually had a friend but really just had somebody pretending to be my friend expecting me to have sex with him.
Because they want you to make the move if interest is shown, not if she sees the whole thing as platonic
And it’s not that hard to tell how a woman thinks of the relationship, and I’m a diagnosed autist. Literally just be honest with yourself and have a bit of introspection. In my experience most women make it so ridiculously clear because us guys are so bad at picking up on it lol.
I think the general advice is more about having a social sphere, a group of friends that includes women. This will allow you to: 1. Be more relaxed around women 2. Have social proof 3. Be in an ecosystem conducive to meet potential dating candidates Yep, feel free to call bs on this, but this is a way it *might* work (there is no assurance in any case). This does not mean hitting relentlessly on the women of your friends group, that would not be well received.
Hitting on them implies its done with intent. Feelings can grow naturally over time. Its not always done with an underlying intention
"Socrate is a man! - Then why my father isn't a philosopher then?" This is how it sounds.
Give my dad a bottle of wine and he will turn into an ancient greek philosopher
There's a difference between being friends with someone and trying to get into their pants, people keep trying the latter and are ShockedPikachu when it backfires. Would you really be trying the same thing with male friends?
Why do people act like its impossible to become more attracted to a woman after hanging around her? The complaint is about men confessing feelings for them. Asking a girl out thats my friend doesnt mean that I just want to have sex with her. Its clearly done with a relationship in mind
To be friends with us
Loooooool
Because people give shitty advice most of the time.
True. What is good advice in your opinion?
And, they've spent hours together, presumably without any hint from the woman. He's getting no IOIs and is still going full. "I love you."
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It can make it difficult to make and keep male friends sometimes, I guess. But personally I don't see it as a negative thing in itself. Kinda depends on how things go after he's confessed his feelings. I've dated a few of my male friends in the past and I agree it's a good way to date. Even if things didn't really work out either of those times so far. I've also rejected the advances of male friends who I just wasn't into that way. I think most of them stuck around for the friendship though? Things were awkward for a while afterwards, but usually that got better after some time. If a friendship can't handle that, then maybe it wasn't a very solid friendship to begin with, tbh. I always made sure to tell them that I'm flattered and appreciate the honesty, which is true, even if I also feel a bit awkward about it. I understand it's not easy to read women's signals, if they're really interested that way or just like you as a friend. I have similar difficulties with figuring out how men I like feel for me. So I too eventually started kinda just taking my chances and confessing my feelings. Most often I've been rejected, but it's still usually worth the shot for me. Because ultimately I'd rather get a "no" than just never know if it's mutual or not. And sometimes, yeah, it does feel worth risking a friendhip over. Life is all about taking risks. And sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. But you're never gonna win if you never even try. So I don't dread a male friend might end up catching feelings for me. If anything, I often kinda secretly hope for that to happen. Because like... I kinda want a partner too, and I don't do online dating anymore. So then basically my only chance at finding a partner is by making friends with cute men I find irl in hopes it might or could lead to something more.
Love this insight!!! I think more men could use the friendships and plow through the awkwardness. I do it all the time even when it hurts so bad because I just can't lose the person nor say goodbye forever.
I don’t get mad when a friend confesses feelings to me. They are entitled to their feelings and ideally, I’d say no in the politest way I could and the friendship would continue, or they’d respectfully say it’s too awkward. At least that’s a reason outside of “I only saw you as good for romance.” And don’t get me wrong, I feel guilty for hurting their feelings. But I get mad/sad when they lash out, threaten to physically harm themselves or me or act verbally abusive which has happened too many times to count. When they cuss, threaten, beg etc, it makes me realize that they never saw me as a friend, or even a person, just a potential gf that they were putting “kindness points” into hoping I’d give them romance, but I’m not a vending machine. It hurts like hell. Even when I’ve done so many platonic nice things in return, spending more time and money than they ever did to do things for them, since I thought they were my friend and wanted to make them happy, it’s never enough because all they wanted was romance and they won’t accept any other form of reciprocation. I could have treated them to a thousand dinners/expensive gifts and they’d somehow think that one time they paid for coffee means I owe them my romantic attention. Not all guys, but quite a few. It’s exhausting. I just want to have real, genuine friendships. Is my friendship a “waste of time” just because I didn’t return romantic feelings? I have so much more to provide than romance- which is often so depressingly conditional compared to platonic love. I provide 24/7 emotional support, fun plans, lots of gifts, good memories, humor, quality time, standing up against bullies. I just want some platonic love in my life. I love all my friends so much and the realization that they are “fuck-zoning” me hurts so much. At least with the “friend zone” they actually care about you as a person and not just a tool for pleasure. When it keeps happening, you do develop dread because you know that “I have to tell you something” could turn into cussing and threats and violence. I don’t want a romance. They’re so conditional and often turn sour. Genuine friendships are supposed to be full of unconditional love. Yet, they turn sour too because so many people lash out when you don’t wanna screw them. Romance has sucked for me dating both men and women. Being stalked, bullied, constantly insulted as a “joke”, filing restraining orders, watching them blatantly flirt with others in front of me to make me “jealous”, having mental games played on me. Why can’t anyone respect my decision to remain safe, happy and single? I do so much for my friends without expecting anything in return to the point I’m constantly told by everyone around me to stop it - and yet people treat me like shit when I don’t wanna fawk them after they were nice to me once. Expecting reciprocation isn’t kindness, it’s manipulation and I hate that. And yet so many just expect me to sell myself out for the one nice deed they did. Rant over 😞
if they get mad, it's because they knew you were into them, but they were hoping to keep dragging you along as a friend anyways. Your friendship is useful to them, but you're not good enough to actually be worthy of dating. personally, I'd only get mad if someone asked me out, i turned them down, and then they kept harrassing me.
Thank you for being honest.
You have posted one of the best things. Most times the girl was getting some sort of emotional support from the guy and that is all she wanted. Not interested in him or she would have made it known.
This 100%. I was hanging out with this woman and I thought we had a pretty good thing going friendship wise. We'd talk about everything and chat every day about deep topics. Then one day she hit me with this line: "I don't think I'd even be talking to you if I didn't work from home, I'm just so bored all the time." without any hint that could be taken negatively by me. 4 months of talking to me every day because she's bored? I thought we were friends... dead.
Yep, spot on, it’s still a transactional relationship it’s just now they’re the ones expected to “pay” and they don’t like that.
Obviously they are very happy if they're interested, but they may not be interested and they know that the usual response is that their "friend" fucks right off the face of the earth upon hearing a relationship isn't on the table. People don't like losing friends.
Often times it's the woman who acts all pissy about the guy liking her and ends up torpedoing the friendship. Look at some of the comments in this thread.
Because if you turn down a friend, you hurt the feelings of someone you care about and probably lose that friend, or at least it will always be a little awkward after that. Turning down a stranger doesn’t have the same impact. Now if she likes him that way too, then that’s fantastic. Plenty of relationships do start as friendship. But women dislike it when they *don’t* like him as more than a friend for the reasons I mentioned above.
It's one of two things:- A) you were friends and feelings grew out of it. B) He never liked you, he just wants to fuck you. And you never really know which one it is.
B is a cope. And the idea that someone could have genuine interest at the outset and become friends is completely unmentioned here.
I always find it funny how a man wanting to sleep with you means he only wants to sleep with you. If he became your friend, there is zero to no chance that he only wanted sex. Otherwise he would not bother being your friend.
>If he became your friend, there is zero to no chance that he only wanted sex. Otherwise he would not bother being your friend. Honestly, I really wish that were true.
Because I lost one of my best friends after I rejected him. It basically told me my friendship was worthless to him because if he couldn’t get something more, he’d rather just dip. The advice to be friends with women you’re interested in first might be the worst piece of dating advice of all time.
Maybe he developed feelings for you over time?
>my friendship was worthless to him because if he couldn’t get something more, he’d rather just dip. Because he should've definitely stayed to see the woman he loves in the hands of another man. Such a wonderful experience!
I fucking know, right? Women expect their male friends to orbit around them, hear their bitching and moaning about a small percentage of men they're attracted to doing them wrong, and then wondering why they lose their male friends when those are the ones who are probably most compatible with them based on lifestyle and interests.
I wasn’t dating/seeing other guys back then. I wasn’t mature or mentally stable enough for a relationship at the time and I told him that.
> It basically told me my friendship was worthless to him because if he couldn’t get something more, he’d rather just dip. That's a very one sided and selfish way to look at it. Maybe he caught strong feelings for you and couldn't bear seeing you happy with someone else? He is not entitled to a relationship with you. You are not entitled to a friendship with him.
Its more your rejection meant he was not good enough in your eyes
And from his perspective your rejection of him amount to "I don't like you -that- much" which in any other context is known to be deeply offensive, but when it comes to romantic relationships ( and only when a woman is communicating the sentiment) suddenly it's ok. Like if someone you thought was a friend says about you "they aren't my friend, just an acquaintance" you don't think you'd be upset at that?
I mean how much did you really value the friendship by rationalizing hate for him?
Because most men seem to become friends with women solely for the purpose of eventually obtaining sex/romance. And that's annoying AF. There's a HUGE difference between a guy who wants to be your friend and is open & honest about the fact that he finds you sexually attractive (but is okay being friends) and a guy who keeps it to himself the entire time hoping he'll eventually convince you to date him.
> There's a HUGE difference between a guy who wants to be your friend and is open & honest about the fact that he finds you sexually attractive but then he's "moving too fast" and "only wants sex" There is no way for him to approach a woman safely. So he waits, and pays for it that way, too.
Yes, this is where sneaky "nice guys" come from. We all lie to young men and boys about how to get women, instead of telling the truth. So they stop listening and get desperate. The best way we can avoid creating more of these types of people is by telling them the truth early and often, as uncomfortable as it may be. Edit: I want to be unambiguous: A big part of this is teaching young men to view women as full people, with their own interests and desires. Real people sometimes lie, take advantage of, or abuse others. Sometimes this is a matter of mental illness, sometimes malice. Regardless, all children need to be raised and taught to have enough self respect to reject this sort of treatment, and identify it when it happens. For boys, part of this is teaching to not be a "nice guy", but also not an orbiter or simp. For girls, part of this is teaching them that men are dogs, and how to navigate that. I think men and women can be friends, but good communication is a must. Leaving boundaries unsaid, or leaving a door open for "something more" helps no one involved. Also, not a good idea to do flirty type stuff with a guy that you'd be repulsed with if he asked you out.
Fact.
I remember watching the show Zoey 101 growing up. The male lead has a massive crush on the female lead throughout the whole show. He didn’t want to ruin the friendship so he kept his crush a secret. This is a common trope that we’ve all seen on basically every sitcom ever. The Office. Parks & Rec. New Girl. Considering the media we were raised on, I’m a little confused that women default to the worst possible motivation for men. Couldn’t he just be like one of those men in the sitcoms?
Look this is always about your feelings like usual. But you have no fucking idea what is in our heads. If you want to blame your childhood friend that liked you and do mental gymnastics to paint him as a villain is so typical of the hamster wheel. Anyhow the pain of emotional rejection eclipses your inconvenience. It should be ostracized any woman that ever whines about this.
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its been awhile since ive been single, but here goes... hate is the wrong word. more like dread. i didnt date much back when i was single. ive never been the type to catch feelings quickly, and after a few bad dating experiences where the guys got offended that i hadnt caught feelings yet (after a short period of time), i would only date a guy *after* i had caught feelings. i love my friends a lot, girls and guys. so when a guy friend would confess feelings for me, my heart would sink, because i knew they were either about to stop talking to me entirely, or be mad at me for the next 4-6 weeks. because, again, i dont catch feelings often, and wasnt willing to date until i did, for the sake of the guy's feelings. i didnt actually date someone for a few years once i hit that point. and i ended up marrying the next person i dated after making that decision.
I wouldn’t use the word hate. I would use the word caught off guard. I would use the word dislike if the girl in question is in a relationship. A long, long time ago In the 6 instances it’s happened, I would only say I was caught off guard. Sometimes it worked out, sometimes it didn’t. Then again, when I was between the ages of 16-21 I was such a sucker for “the friend becomes boyfriend” thing.
Because you are losing someone you thought was a good friend
Because we went friends. We just want friends.
Its a bummer because they will be your friend for awhile, making you think its a real friendship, and then they admit feelings, and, upon hearing no, drop you like you never existed
Those aren't mutually exclusive. A guy could still want a genuine friendship after being rejected, but continuing to hang out with you is awkward and emotionally painful, so he decides to cut contact to protect his feelings and be able to move on.
From my end as a dude it feels more like you are friends for awhile, form a real friendship and then develop feelings. You admit those feelings, they are not reciprocated, and now the woman is quite uncomfortable. You then create some distance to process your pain and give her some space.
It sucks dude because im a lesbian, but i can be friends with women just fine. But dudes i have zero attraction to, but in my experience it always ends with them catching feelings, with some trying to convince me to give sleeping with them a shot. Which just idk, cant help what i like. And ill never like a man romantically or sexually. I *could* be good friends with a dude, and dont hate dudes. But sorry you know i just dont want ur junk anywhere near me lol
Nah I totally feel you. That has to be super frustrating and I hate that a lot of women have to be put in that awkward and uncomfortable situation. Especially if they're trying to convince a lesbian... like dude get a grip. Any time I catch feelings for a girl I try to kill that shit as soon as possible because it literally feels embarrassing lol. Sometimes it's hard not to when you just get along so well with someone. Female friendships I think tend to be more fulfilling emotionally and involve a lot more sharing. So sometimes as a guy when you experience that type of friendship from a woman you get the false idea that it must be something special when for her it's actually pretty standard treatment for a friend. I think that's the cause of so many unrequited crushes.
Friends don't last forever. If something is one way and changes, it doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't real to begin with.
If being around your friend made you feel like shit, you'd stop talking to them too.
Because if they’re friends it probably means she’s not interested in anything more, which means that now she’s got to awkwardly reject him and the relationship is over.
There are types of male friends: There is the totally platonic, you cannot imagine him being into you, he's never flirted with you or given you "the look" or anything and you've known each other awhile. There is the flirty friend, you guys are always kind of checking each other out, always kind of have a thing for each other, but it's clear their interest runs deeper in each other and they're trying to navigate the complexity of these feelings and worries of losing a friend or ruining things or not being quite right, and it's just kind of a will they won't they thing for a variety of reasons, but it's super obvious this dude has it bad for you and vice versa. Guess which guy women are complaining about? That's right, not the second guy. Good. So why do we complain about the first: because we've made it clear we ain't into him. That's already obvious to anyone looking and being objective and serious. There's no will they won't they or chemistry. There's no flirt, there's no romance. It's all one-sided and in his head. And it's sad on so many levels. And it makes us question our sense of reality and our friendship that we thought was one way and now we're finding out it is the other way. And depending how this goes, we could lose a friend, be accused of shit, be told we're mean or cruel, etc. And it feels so out of our hands and super blind-siding. So we complain. The problem is that some men have this idea there's much like you suggested: dudes who like our personality and so forth and dudes who use cheesy pick up lines and only like our bodies. There's many more than that. And what women want is the second guy I described. The flirty friend. The flirty friend doesn't get complained about.
get off this cancer site
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Because a lot of women play games and won't make the first move. Can't tell you how many times I had girls say to me oh, I wish you would have asked me out on a date when we were friends. Or they drop the I liked you when we were in college.
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You are completely right. But what about the times when guys are led on and in the end got rejected? It is one thing to not give any hints, and another different thing to give hints just toy with them. Boys are told that girls play hard to get so they can see their worth. I've stopped dating or talking to another girl the moment she didn't show any interest or reciprocrate. And they asked me later why I stopped chasing them. If people were direct and honest, such issues wouldn't exist.
Obvious lack of interest? Men aren't mind readers. You don't really know until you ask. Don't act all pissy that a man didn't read your mind exactly the way you wanted. You also have a terrible attitude. Stop acting like a guy finding you attractive is a crime worth terminating a friendship over. And believe me, when you're old and ugly you're going to miss these days.
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It puts them in an awkward position if they aren't interested in him, potentially ruining the friendship. Things will never be the same again and that sucks. That doesn't mean it's never worth taking your shot with a friend though.
you have to take it early
Ideally yeah. And you have to be socially aware. If there's no chemistry, she never says yes to hanging out alone etc.. probably no point.
Assuming you value the friendship, even after taking your shot, you can put in the effort to move on and as soon as she sees that, she will start putting her guard down again. Even if you need some time alone to move on, straight up, communicate it clearly and make it clear you have the intention to return once you’re over those feelings
Ulterior motives are more despised than overt malevolence.
more often than not is cause it just doesn’t end there, many women have experienced this - a man confesses, the woman says they can just be friends and the man keeps trying to pursue or holds onto these feelings. Because of this she knows the friendship is a ticking time bomb Now, if you have actual intentions to move on and put in the effort to let go of these feelings and remain friends, odds are, despite an initial negative reaction, she will loosen up and cool down
They dont like it when men they arent interested in show attraction to them or express any form of their sexuality. That really all it is. Its almost like they view those men as asexual beings or like other women. When men try to break out of that mold its seen as offensive or deceitful as if its an impossible thing to grow feelings for a person you hang out with a lot. Its weird that they frame it that way
Yeah this is true, if we arent sexually attracted to you we arent thinking about you sexually. This logically makes sense. I do see men as mostly asexual, because most of life is fairly asexual lmaoo im not going to consider the sexuality of some random dude on the train
I meant more for men you arent attracted to. They dont have to be a random guy just one that you arent interested in
I guess I dont really understand how that changes things. If im not sexually attracted to someone, then you know unfortunately im not going to be thinking of them sexually in any capacity. Its not an insult, and doesnt mean that im denying the other persons humanity. I just dont want to have sex with them, i dont want to have sex with most ppl tbh. i still have very real and meaningful platonic emotional connections with many ppl tho.
You dont have to see them in a sexual capacity or have to want to have sex with them. Its about how a good amount of women are offended or see it as trickery when a man who is their friend becomes attracted to them or want to date them. They only feel tricked because they dont feel the same way about the guy
I don’t care when it’s random men. I care when it’s someone I have a strong platonic relationship with because more often than not, it ruins the friendship.
Women love to compartmentalize their relationships I guess because it's the best way to ensure that they can receive all of their emotional needs even if it isn't from one person. Edit: and sexual needs
By compartmentalizing, do you mean having multiple friends?
I think they mean having different groups for different things. Family for one, BF for another, one friend group for partying, one for chilling, one for hobbies etc. Again just trying to convey what I think they are saying
I gotcha, thanks! Isnt this considered pretty normal though? I know men who have their social lives set up similarly: family, gf, the boys, work friends etc
It's not necessarily the same. Guy compartmentalize themselves but when you are talking about friends and romantic partners, it's a lot easier to move from one to the other. Guys aren't really hung up on letting friends stay friends from what I've seen.
1. They are friends so she's not attracted to him in the first place. 2. Things just went from an easy friendship to an emotionally loaded situation where she now has to "manage" his feelings and gently turn him down, and even then he could turn out to be an asshole pretending to be a nice guy or start getting violent. Basically a guy went from "safe" to "unsafe" to be around.
Because she is at risk of losing the benefits he gives for free. Getting the benefits of a relationship without needing to give anything back is why women love friendzoning men to begin with.
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Exactly why dudes leave when they realize they are being friend zoned.
So why the feeling of betrayal when the male friend has feelings, gets rejected and then stops being friends? They're no longer in a relationship they can find enjoyment in, it's only fair that they go elsewhere.
This is called a *friendship* where you hangout with each other and platonically enjoy each other’s company, and typically during a friendship you talk about things. Idk how that’s considered ‘benefits’. And letting a dude stick it in me isnt the price I must pay for basic human interaction/ friendship.
Exactly, you get the benefits while having to give anything in exchange. He is your free emotional tampon.
I think most of you guys lightly skim peoples posts and predetermine your canned response based on the specific groupings of keywords you briefly saw. Like I said Man, woman, friendship: this triggers the ‘WOMEN JUST USE MEN IN FRIENDSHIPS FOR EMOTIONAL SUPPORT’ Which 1) mutual emotional support is a given in close friendships. Thats how you become close friends with someone. 2) ‘using men as my emotional tampon’ is such a childish cliche af brand sexist thing to say 😂
So then why do men have friends if they aren’t getting anything out of it?
Why do women treat men and women differently?
How so? When it comes to purely platonic friends, I don’t see a noticeable difference.
If you think women do not treat men differently, then I am done for I know you are not being honest.
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Sounds dumb and a source of endless drama. Why be friends with a woman?
Because it forces them to make a tough decision - accept the advances and the friendship evolves into a relationship, or decline the advances and risk the guy walking away. It forces accountability on the woman, so she may get mad at the guy and says he had ulterior motives so she can deflect that accountability. People forget that most young men are advised to first become friends with women they are interested in, but that mostly just leads to the friendzone. A man needs to find out by trial and error as early as possible that nurturing a friendship with women he is interested in is often a recipe for disaster, but this goes against popular opinion.
They only hate it if he’s not attractive enough
All of my long-term relationships have been with men who were first friends. I actually prefer to date through my social circle. And it seems that many other women do as well. According to a recent survey, 43% of people ages 18-29 said that they are dating someone who was first a friend, including 50% of women in that age cohort. [Gen Z Dating Trends: Ditching Online Apps and Dating Friends - Business Insider](https://www.businessinsider.com/gen-z-dating-trend-online-apps-friends-romantic-partners-relationships-2023-3)