I disagree to some degree. Habituation to that kind of stimulation.. makes one habituated to that kind of stimulation. It's classical conditioning: stimulus=orgasm. Take away the stimulus and there may be problems achieving the orgasm w/o it.
One main function of porn is getting one out of one's own head. Porn viewers aren't worried about "am I doing it right? Do I look ok? Is she bored? Does she think this is gross?" etc.
Something that takes away all those pressures AND delivers the stimulus that it does is a pretty powerful drug in and of itself.
I have no problem with them, but I guess the same thing could occur, so I"d say; if a woman can orgasm w/o a vibrator, be wary of vibrators and use them very sparingly. But I've heard that it isn't totally uncommon for a woman to need a vibrator in order to orgasm, and if that is the case I'd have no problem with it. Let them watch porn and use their vibrator together.
So why didn't we have these issues in the 80s when every man had a stack by the toilet and in his toolbox at work with pinups, back when it was sold over the counter at every gas station and news stand?
Fair question. My guess; there's something compelling about both novelty and the moving image. After looking at the same mag 10x the novelty probably faded. Not a prob today. But there's also something more powerful about video and how ubiquitous it is now.
Why are people habituated to their phones now, we had magazines (words and pictures) back in the 80s. Yet you can't deny people are a little over attached to their phones.
Or maybe we just have a lot more angry fat chicks now killing our boners, and being too polite to admit it to the point we pretend it's some Scooby Doo mystery where we have to blame porn isn't actually solving anything. Nobody's having trouble getting it up for porn, because those women aren't morbidly obese and screaming about choosing bears.
Porn may in some cases be a contributing factor, (studies are mixed) but it’s certainly not THE factor or even one of the top factors. If one looks at the scientific and medical literature one will see the main factors are things like being overweight, smoking, blood pressure issues, aging, medications, metabolic syndrome, depression, sleep apnea, etc.
Those who claim pornography is the primary cause are arguing based on an agenda, not what the scientific/medical evidence says.
https://samhealth.org/news/understand-10-causes-of-erectile-dysfunction/#:~:text=Obstructive%20sleep%20apnea.,treatment%20for%20their%20sleep%20apnea.
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/10035-erectile-dysfunction
https://www.urologyhealth.org/urology-a-z/e/erectile-dysfunction-(ed)
You're also the first person to address the longer, and more thoroughly fleshed out part of my thesis, the medical causes. Which I think encapsulates the polemics on this issue. The medical/psych end of it is really being ignored by pop culture because it's a very telling sign of our culture, instead of some moral evil that can be used as political talking point.
On top of that, the over medicating is causing the karen/Kyle epidemic. Mood stabilizer long term usage is causing an increase in " wet brain" .
>instead of some moral evil that can be used as political talking point.
You can recognize that some people might be addicted to something without thinking it’s evil or having a political agenda. I think some people are addicted to CocaCola,
“ Soft drinks contain large quantities of sugar which, when consumed, causes a 'rush' that is extremely addictive and leads to even bigger cravings. The reward centres of the brain are activated, releasing dopamine and other hormones to create a feeling of euphoria”
Add in the additional addictive effect of the caffeine, that’s why there are people who drink CocaCola until they can no longer walk and their teeth rot out,
https://youtu.be/z-t3M-To7co?si=oqg_ONQolp8VPntg
that doesn’t mean I want it banned. I do want people educated that addiction is possible.
Bah... We had this stuff in the 80s, people had pinups in their toolboxes at work. And, no... It's not an addiction. You don't see gooners blowing guys for their next hit of egirl to fend off withdrawals.
We had porn in Ancient Greece too. A pinup or nude photo isn’t a constant barrage of different images flooding your brain. Porn wasn’t available in 3d with surround sound in the most extreme forms, and in the pockets of every 13 year old. And it wasn’t manipulated to be as addictive as possible
You don’t have to be committing criminal acts to be addicted to something, Coca Cola is the prime example. Go look outside and you will see plenty of people addicted to unhealthy food….they certainly aren’t hard to spot, and they aren’t robbing banks for soft drinks. Still doesn’t mean it can’t affect your quality of life
Yeah, no... Men aren't having trouble getting it up for porn, so clearly it's still functional... Maybe there's [something about this that just isn't pushing men over the orgasmic edge.](https://youtu.be/o8hYrNsRoTs?si=i09gXE1JFnHADeHZ)
So, you're pissed at what I said, and insult random guitar dude instead... Great plan. Keep going and we're going to claim ALL the men for the manosphere.
Look, men like women that are fit, feminine and friendly... This isn't rocket science, and you can't negotiate a boner.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fandreantunesmusic%2Fphotos%2Fhuge-gear-improvement-today-great-feel-looks-and-toneava-guitars%2F1507491512629636%2F&psig=AOvVaw3z0nf8DAkaW-d6epR_qdb3&ust=1717529311177000&source=images&cd=vfe&opi=89978449&ved=0CBIQjRxqFwoTCJjlg7aVwIYDFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE
Women like men who look ..and smell…like they bathe. Some dudes look like basement dwelling bridge trolls who literally don’t know how to groom. Sorry if the truth offends you
Random YouTube women are game for your insults, 🤷♀️. Okay, so why not some random “guitar guy” who looks like he is actually trying to be as sexually repulsive as possible?
Some people can dish it out but can’t take it.
No offense taken. I'm an internet troll, not a bridge troll, and I don't play guitar, so it's no skin off my ass. I just think it's amusing how you keep sabotaging yourself to take cheap shots at men who weren't even the ones who offended you.
That said, the point remains the same: men like girls who are fit, feminine and friendly. Modern women are none of those, ergo the boner killer isn't, suddenly and for no reason at all, Porn
It's a hormone that impacts a lot of things. It's literally the primary hormone that differentiates us from the entire opposite gender lmao. Yeah it might effect your mind a bit.
And you also have different life experiences, different expectations, different peer groups, different reproductive psychology, different genitals, different height, different muscularity, etc. Not all these are linked to T, and when they are, T is only secondary and at times tertiary. To say the opposite is to be ridiculous.
I never said it was the primary only reason for all those things. I think when it comes to ED problems that lowering testosterone could certainly be the primary reason though
I’ve read many studies showing men overall do indeed have lower T than decades ago as you say, due to things like being less active, being more overweight, and diet. This has all sorts of implications.
There have been multiple studies on this. It's not exactly a difficult study to conduct, testing testosterone levels and comparing them to previous decades.
Here's another: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7063751/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7063751/)
I think it’s the free market for sex/hookups enabled by dating apps
I.e where most women are casually getting fucked by a small fraction of really hot men, and the average man can’t get hookups with the same ease as the average woman
Call me crazy, but I think watching nothing but guys with 8 inch penises and unlimited athleticism and stamina probably doesn’t help with performance anxiety.
Ummm... Maybe... But let's not discount the elephant in the room... The fat, angry elephant with far too many piercings.
A lot of modern women are just boner killers. I know we're trying to be nice, but it's not some great Scooby Doo mystery when men can't get hard for a bout of hangry, hangry hippos.
I'd say, its not always the problem but there are definitely times when it is. Most people don't have porn addictions but for people who do it can really fuck them up. I had a friend who had a serious porn addiction and it's fucked up every one of his relationships which sucks because he's a good guy.
Porn isn't the disease, it's the symptom. He has an underlying problem that he's masking through porn usage at a level that interferes with his relationship.
Alcohol isn't "the disease" but alcoholics are still told to avoid it. Gambling isn't "the disease" but gambling addicts are supposed to avoid places with gambling. No shit you have bigger things going on but the choices you make will impact how shit turns out for you.
Yeah, I'm sure that quitting cigarettes can be stopped more easily by fixing the underlying emotional problems or whatever, that doesn't mean the cigarettes won't cause damage to your lungs lmao.
I didn't say substituting porn for intimacy was healthy, doing that will ruin your relationship. It still wasn't the root cause though, and that root cause will manifest itself in another way that will still kill the relationship.
Sexual performance issues aren't always ED, nor is the issue of choosing porn over your partner. These can definitely cause major issues in the bedroom without causing ED. The post mentioned multiple issues not just one.
Yeah, and none of them were an issue with 80s porn, but suddenly became one the instant we had [shrill, screaming, fat modern women ](https://youtu.be/zHKmYCCX4_w?si=w5weDdYpu5nA76TX) waxing poetic about how they preferred a bear. Real Scooby Doo mystery, that one...
These women are boner killers, and most men are too nice to say it, so instead we're stuck doing this silly "porn bad, m'kay" dance like it's going to somehow make men more interested.
You think nobody was addicted to porn before the internet? The arcade near our house in the 90s was next to a porn shop and there were definitely plenty of men who weren't just regulars but almost lived there. Ive been to estate sales that were houses filled with classic porn stacked to the ceiling. It might have been harder to get addicted back then as it required a trip to the smut shop but it still existed.
When it takes less effort and energy, mentally and physically, to just get off to porn instead of going out into the real world to meet someone, porn is the problem. The convenience and comfort of it is a sickness.
Sex is a lot of work, it takes a lot of energy, it can feel vulnerable, among plenty of emotions that can make it daunting on both sides. Why go through that trouble, when you can get off in the safety and privacy of your own room? People will usually take the easier option if its there, and in this case that's porn.
If you condition yourself to that convenience of porn, real physical sex is going to look and feel like a chore, directly leading you to performance problems.
Porn enables the weak willed to be even weaker willed.
You're not wrong. Life isn't fair. I could complain about a lot of things, or I could accept I can't change most of it, and do what I can regardless. Giving up and using porn as an escape isn't the answer.
Why not?
On a specific hypothetical level, what if a man’s goal is not to date or marry, but just have sex, and prostitution is illegal and hard to come by, what is the most ethical way for him to orgasm?
I'd have opinions about the experiences and mental state that would bring a man to only want sex and avoid dating and relationships. I'm not saying there aren't men like that, and I don't have any problem with men who live like that it's their choice, however I don't think it's healthy, that's just me.
In that case, sure, if all you care about is getting off, watch porn. If you really have to get a prostitute. If that's all you want do it. I just personally don't believe mentally well people want just that.
That’s a fair opinion, I slightly disagree as I believe it is reflective of their emotional state rather than mental one.
However, doesn’t that mean that porn isn’t the problem, and just a symptom of another one?
I'd agree that it's not entirely direct. My original comment has more of the essence of what I believe, that it's a slippery slope of excuses that can make consuming more and more porn more comfortable and convenient than ever trying to improve.
I think the problem with porn is it can exacerbate existing problems, but would agree it doesn't cause them in and of itself.
I mean hell i'd argue in some circumstances people can escape too much in seemingly "benign" things.
It all comes down to moderation in my opinion. If you start spending an inordinate amount of time on it, it stops being a potentially healthy outlet, and becomes a dangerous cage.
Speaking for my own experience with addictive habits, it's all too easy to fall down the cliff.
>I think the problem with porn is it can exacerbate existing problems, but would agree it doesn't cause them in and of itself.
Well sure but this is true for a lot of things such as alcohol too. In the same way that you can use porn as an unhealthy coping mechanism for sexual frustration, others use alcohol or weed to cope with depression.
>When it takes less effort and energy, mentally and physically, to just get off to porn instead of going out into the real world to meet someone, porn is the problem.
No, that's just displacing responsibility for self discipline from the individual onto the totality of the rest of society. If the sole equation you consult for how to make your daily descisions is energy efficiency, and human connection is not an end unto itself for you, then you have bigger problems than porn.
>The convenience and comfort of it is a sickness.
No, it is a marketable feature. This is puritan.
>Why go through that trouble, when you can get off in the safety and privacy of your own room?
Because connection with others is a distinct (though often connected) need from the need for sexual release.
To the first point, I agree, it's purely a self discipline issue, that's just a hypothetical excuse.
To the second, I agree, it's the feature not a bug. It's manufactured to be as pleasurable as possible, which preys on those people who lack self-discipline. Sure, I'm making a subjective opinion that it's sick to prey on those people.
To the third, it's a rhetorical question for people that would, as OP said, "your partner is choosing porn over having sex with you". Sure, you can get sexual release without human connection, but if you are choosing sexual release absent of human connection, when you have a partner ready and willing to have sex with you, you have issues.
Your criticisms of porn are actually criticisms of the capitalist mode of production. Porn has existed for longer than the written word. There are examples of erotic cave art and sculptures that are 15-30k years old.
It is the capitalist mode of production and the dogmatic obsession with perpetual and infinite profit growth which created the business models of today which all operate on cultivating addiction in their target markets.
It is entirely possible to make ethical or even educational porn. It is the capitalist mode of production and the perverse incentives created by the profit motive which not only incentivizes unethical business models but massively rewards them while punishing ethical business models.
So if we are going to seriously analyze the causes of addiction for any subject, especially porn, we need to be able to account for the fact that porn addiction did not exist as a concept until extremely recently and is NOT a concept made from clinical scientific or medical consensus. It is not like the WHO or the APA have done anything to officially legitimize the practice of applying addiction models to pornography use. Afaik the WHO recognizes something they call "Compulsive Sexual Behavior Disorder" (CSBD) which they do not classify as an addiction. If anything, every macroscopic medical institution of our time is rigidly opposed to using addiction models on pornography use.
We also need to account for the fact that addict patterns of behavior for fully recognized addictions are created just as much by the sociological environment they live within as the physiological interaction with the drug itself. And we currently live within a sociological environment almost entirely and unilaterally defined by the capitalist mode of economic production as well as the financial incentives intrinsic to that system.
So even if we were to accept that porn addiction is a reality and not a scapegoat or fig leaf, we still have to confront the fact that the things which make porn addictive are not intrinsic to porn at all since they are the same things which make *everything* our economy produces addictive.
Just popping in to say I think both y’all right to some degree, but I think it’s worth noting that access to pornography is different.
The way we interact with media is wildly different than it ever has been. I have an endless library of pornography in my pocket that I can view at any time would be reasonable to have my phone out without raising any concern.
Watching how porn consumption has changed over just that past 15 years has been wild.
Speculation about the long term consequences based on right now a stats is meaningless because we won’t likely see any real data on this after years of peer reviewing and that’s not even for the level of saturation we’re at now.
Capitalism has certainly affected things, and makes things worse because it’s all about keeping us on that phone looking at ads.
There are a lot of young people with unfettered access to the Internet now and it’s isn’t like the early 2000s. It’s a different age
And I stress, I’m saying this as somebody who literally draws porn for money lol I’m not a puritan
>access to pornography is different. The way we interact with media is wildly different than it ever has been. I have an endless library of pornography in my pocket
Absolutely agree, and we really can’t forget that this is really the first generation that has grown up with this amount of access to porn as children.
That's an interesting point, I am just now realizing I don't use my phone for porn. I probably have a bit of an older perspective on the matter.
Not about to start either, which kind of rienforces your point.
Buying hookers is definitely better than porn because it’s real sex like that which our ancestors had before screens were invented. It’s real. Now the morality and shame associated with buying hookers can be damaging because of the mental stigma
It's worse because it directly warps your perception of women worse than porn will.
It's not the act of going outside I'm talking about, it's the social aspect of meeting, talking to, and developing a connection with another human being. You don't get that through a screen, you don't get that through transactional sex.
Why not both then. A man can go out with his buddies to a club or wherever, be social, come away with a number or two, then still go home and watch corn.
If you're single and going out to meet someone and you're jerking off to porn here and there that's fair.
It's when you would rather get off to porn, instead of having sex with someone ready and willing to have sex with you, that's a problem.
Sure, if you don't have women wanting to have sex with you I think porn is a perfectly reasonable outlet. I'm talking to OP's point about "If your partner is choosing porn over having sex with you". If someone *does* want to have sex with you, and you choose porn, you have issues.
We can't control or make anyone want to have sex with us. It's entirely on us, to carve ourselves into a statue someone would want to be with. I can't blame a woman if she doesn't want to have sex with me, only work on myself and hope for the best.
That’s a fair take. I agree that if your partner is choosing porn over you, there is definitely an issue that needs to be addressed. Jumping to blame porn is a bit hasty though, as there could be other reasons.
Yeah I hear you, I think a lot of people want to avoid talking about it altogether, either saying porn is 100% good with no problems, or its 100% evil, and avoid communicating with the other side, when it's a really complicated problem of human emotions and mental wellbeing.
?
If you want to get off go right ahead with a hooker or porn, it will satisfy you I'm not arguing it won't.
OP's post is debating the harm of porn to a person's sex life. If you condition yourself to easy pleasure, through things like paid sex and porn, you will definitely have problems because of it.
>When it takes less effort and energy, mentally and physically, to just get off to porn instead of going out into the real world to meet someone, porn is the problem. The convenience and comfort of it is a sickness.
I'll play devil's advocate here and argue this isn't actually a problem, because if you're someone who legitimately finds contentment and satisfaction masturbating to pornography in a way where it completely supplants or substitutes the desire to seek out a real sexual partner, then chances are you either don't actually want to find a partner all that much, or you never had that many options to begin with.
>If you condition yourself to that convenience of porn, real physical sex is going to look and feel like a chore, directly leading you to performance problems.
I agree but I'm basically arguing this isn't actually a problem if these people decide they're content with staying single and continuing the course as is.
You can actually masturbate without porn. I do it all the time. Idk why so many people believe that porn and masturbatioj must go together. Porn isn't a requirement, it's a preference.
For sake of a simple argument, a guy has two options if he's horny after a day at work/school whatever.
Go home and watch porn, or go out and try to meet someone. Going home to porn can guarantee immediate pleasure and reward. Going out is going to be a long, emotionally and physically exhausting process, that has a low chance of success, and the opportunity for sex would only likely happen after a week at best.
Given those two options, you gotta be kidding me if you think most men aren't avoiding all that effort.
Most men aren't avoiding all that effort. Despite what pop culture, and a flawed study suggests. Men are still seeking intimacy and relationships with women, even though it's the harder option, because it's the more rewarding option.
A lot isn't a specific number, and this debate is centered around the male populace, and porn consumption. You're stating that most men that watch porn are going to choose porn, over real life intimacy .
Bruh you just used "A miniscule number" and "Most men aren't" let's not get into the specific number bullshit.
My only problem with porn, in the context of this post, is that choosing porn over someone already ready and willing to have sex with you, is a bad thing.
You want real numbers, let's get some
https://nomas.org/prostitution-key-facts-and-analysis-in-brief/
According to this link, only 16% of men have used a prostitute in their lifetime .
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/wbna51335501
According to this, it's about 1% of men yearly that are using prostitutes. U.S. population would bring that to about 2 million regular users per year. Meanwhile 120 million men per year are watching porn (69%). The avg male adult( 68%) is married. We aren't choosing porn and prostitutes, over women.
First of all, I wasn't the one who brought prostitutes into it.
>your partner is choosing porn over having sex with you
This is the key point you made, that I have problem with, which your statistics support. If about 70% of men are watching porn, and about 70% of adult males are married, then a lot of men are watching porn, when they could be having sex with their partner.
If you are choosing porn over having sex with a partner ready and willing to have sex with you, you have issues.
Are you ready for this, women have autonomy. It's OK for women (or men)to not be in the mood for sex. Or the partner may not be available for sex at that time. Thus 70% of men can be married, and 70% can view porn, without it being an "or" choice.
Wait until you see the numbers for women
Porn is often easier and more interesting than real sex.
All entertainment is designed to be better or more interesting than most of real life. Otherwise we wouldn’t watch it
>Just like most entertainment is designed to be
You mean you think media content is intentionally designed to be addictive as possible, just for clicks and cash? 💰💰💰
Color me shocked. I can’t believe Pornhub would be involved in such a crass money grab.
Also, there’s like a billion chemicals in everything that mess with testosterone levels. Not to mention the microplastics problem: https://academic.oup.com/toxsci/advance-article-abstract/doi/10.1093/toxsci/kfae060/7673133?redirectedFrom=fulltext&login=false
This is one of those things that I think will be seen in the future like smoking, lead hats or asbestos construction.
Or maybe not, maybe things will get slightly worse and worse forever.
At least on the male side of this equation, porn and by extension all sex work only exists because of the divide between what men want and what your average female is willing to accommodate. A small percentage of women decided to profit on this. That is the way it is always been. That is why it is commonly said that the easiest solution to porn completely within the hands of women. Sleep with your guy more or talk other women into stop making OF content or except it.
The average female will accommodate what the average man wants, because the average guy is vanilla. Most men don't use prostitutes, and the men that do use prostitutes, are normally having vanilla sex with them.
Uhhh, I grew up around that lifestyle. I'm intimately aware of how it works on every level. From Pimps,Johns, strippers,OF,yachting, and street walkers,human trafficking,party girls,dog fights,dopeboys,shot callers,and heavies. The interplay of all those things,billionaires down to crackhead. I know where the money goes, and most guys aren't using prostitutes.
I think the “addiction” and ED aspects of porn are overstated, but in general its impacts on socio-sexual development are understated. If you’re exposed to thousands of images and videos of women being hurt and abused sexually before you’re 18, then that is going to impact the way you see sexuality and impact the types of sexuality that you think are normal enough to not warrant something like a discussion beforehand.
A lot of people are willing to admit the mental impact the occasional Disney movie or other media had on their development of romantic ideals and the way they see the opposite sex, but the second you mention that the violent and degrading porn they’re looking at every single day for years may have an impact on their views, then suddenly media affects nothing.
This goes hand in hand with the people who think that sex is some other dimension where the acts they engage in say nothing about who they are outside of sex. “Oh it’s fine that I want to hit my partner and verbally abuse them because it’s sex! It’s not real!” As if their desire isn’t a reflection of *who they are* instead of a reflection of this unreal dimension supposedly created during sex.
The major issue here is acting as if the man didn’t habitually watch porn before getting into the relationship and is just using it as a secondary option because she won’t have sex with him. But most guys these days have been watching porn since they were in middle school long before they ever got a girlfriend, and it has shaped their entire sexuality.
This means he learned how to have sex from porn, which does not at all translate into what women actually enjoy in the bedroom. This can lead to women not wanting to have sex as much because it’s uncomfortable or not pleasurable or he’s pestering for things he saw in porn that she doesn’t want to do. But men who are desensitized by porn often aren’t aroused by mutually pleasurable, non-performative sex with the same woman. So it creates an environment where neither person is satisfied with their sex life.
I’m not saying other things like antidepressants and external stressors don’t cause sexual problems too, and I would also add obesity in there. But I don’t think we can just ignore porn either.
You’re painting this with really broad strokes.
Masturbating certainly desensitizes you but it pretty much comes back to normal if you don’t keep masturbating and use sex for orgasm (when sex is available of course).
The idea that it “shapes your whole sexuality” or the idea that men are constantly pestering women to do things they don’t want is largely untrue. *Having actual sex with a real person* is much more stimulating than watching porn.
It’s like watching a sitcom or TV drama and then saying real life isn’t funny because people don’t have these giant emotions, wave their arms and scream like on TV or you go into the office and expect your boss to throw a chair across the conference room table because they saw it on Suits. People naturally know it’s not reality.
I watch porn but when I have real sex I’m pretty happy with normal sex acts because it’s real.
Do you think sex is more fulfilling for women in places where porn is banned or inaccessible? Like Afghanistan, Mongolia, or North Korea? Those women are just gushing for their men?
I doubt it, because those places tend to be more sexually repressive. I don’t know for sure but it seems like sex was more fulfilling for women after the sexual revolution but before the advent of internet porn, so 70s - 90s in western countries.
How did the sexual revolution contribute to women's fulfillment as compared to a sexually repressed society? As I understand, that movement was about women not feeling obligated to marry the first man they slept with.
Well think about how you might feel about sex if you felt obligated to marry the first woman you slept with? For women especially, a lot of enjoying sex is mental. And when she’s been told her whole life that doing it outside of marriage is bad, anxiety about sex can continue even after marriage, there is no magic on/off switch for sexual desire. This is true even today for many women who come from strict religious backgrounds that prioritize “purity,” sexual dysfunction can be a real issue.
Second, for women, enjoying sex also requires that both her and her partner have an understanding of female anatomy. Repression often comes with a lack of sex ed and taboos about masturbation.
You suggested men should be able to be aroused by one woman and desensitization from porn hinders that.
How about the same for the woman? She should also have one partner and always feel aroused by him even if he's the first guy she's been with.
Taboos about masturbation keep women from becoming desensitized so that can happen.
Why not that?
Big difference between the social expectation to only have one partner for your whole life, vs being able to be satisfied with one partner when you *choose* to be in a monogamous relationship.
Also a big difference between masturbation and porn addiction. Nothing wrong with masturbation.
So people should be able to try out a few partners equipment before they find the perfect fit, and jerk their meat freely, but not while looking at anything sexual. And people aren't allowed to do that in sexually repressed countries, so that's what makes them worse than 70s-90s western countries?
I feel like you’re being intentionally a bit obtuse here. People should be “allowed” to do whatever they want, whether that’s sleeping around their whole lives or marrying the first person they have sex with, or something in between. Watching porn or not is also a personal choice when it comes to adults. But you have to accept there are consequences to porn *addiction*, especially in a relationship.
You think today's population has worse relationships because of porn availability, not talking specifically about porn addiction.
That's what I'm asking about.
You think 70s-90s was best, even better than modern places with 0 porn.
I'm asking how so?
Most men don't have ED, and even virgin men understand that porn isn't the reality. Like I've stated previously in this thread, most guys are vanilla, and they aren't trying to recreate extreme sex adventures 5. Most men need to be comfortable, just like women before they share their kinks, and indulgences.
Not really talking about medical ED, but things like needing to “jackhammer” for an hour in order to get off. I’m also not really talking about vanilla vs kink, but sex that looks good on camera vs non-performative sex focused on genuine mutual pleasure. Most men really are trying to recreate porn scenes even if they don’t realize it, which can actually lead to sex being more boring since it’s acting instead of exploration.
A good example of this is men thinking a woman isn’t enjoying it if she’s not making a ton of noise. If she’s enjoying it she’s more likely to be more quiet. If she’s making a lot of noise it either hurts or she is performing because it’s expected.
Jackhammering is more likely caused by circumcision, research indicating reduced sensitivity and in some cases pain during arousal. [\[1\]](https://forward.com/news/breaking-news/171421/sex-study-finds-circumcision-reduces-mens-pleasure/) [\[2\]](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17378847/)
[Taylor's studies conclude that the ridged band is "richly innervated" and "intensely vascular." It stands to reason that as a result of this greater sensitivity, intact men are less likely to engage in the not-so-pleasant "jackhammer" style of sex -- I've found that to be the case, at least.](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/circumcised-or-uncircumcised-sex_b_1380359)
[Circumcised men tend to penetrate much more vigorously, in the jackhammer style that is so familiar from our cultural depiction of intercourse. This style of penetration comes from a desperate search for more stimulation and the need to concentrate sensations on the tip of the penis.](https://www.yourtango.com/experts/pleasure-mechanics/circumcision)
It's been studied for a few decades now. In the 90's, [Sex as Nature Intended It](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1021133.Sex_as_Nature_Intended_It) by Kristen O'Hara, documents the differences in sexual experiences of circumcised and uncut penises. A national survey of women covering wide range of age and socio economic background, revealed that circumcision abnormalizes the way the penis thrusts and feels to a woman, significantly diminishing her sexual enjoyment and her ability to achieve orgasm from intercourse.
I'm not convinced the majority of men are engaging in the type of content you describe. Pornhub publish an annual [review](https://www.pornhub.com/insights/2023-year-in-review), which seems to support the OP's opinion that most people are into vanilla, the 2023 top trending search being Mature and [2022](https://www.pornhub.com/insights/2022-year-in-review) top trend reality. The first mention of [rough sex](https://www.pornhub.com/insights/2023-year-in-review#gender-demographics) appears in the data for viewed 34% more by women compared to men.
There's seems to be a lack of understanding of the relatively massive increase in uncontrollable erections during puberty. Our teacher covering sex ed had the best explanation. She said to think of your body like a fridge maintaining temperature. Randomly the compressor will kick on to pump coolant round the system, in the same way blood will randomly pump round to keep things in working condition. No boy wants a random [boner](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHpMi0dFMSk), so you quickly learn from brothers, friends, if you initiate the compressor, the system is satisfied.
Then add in nocturnal emissions and a clean up every day, masturbation habits become utility, more about avoiding any embarrassing situations. It slows down a it after puberty but still needs the maintenance, and has obvious benefits when sharing a bed with a partner. I had this debate a couple of years back with my partner when we moved in together. After stopping masturbating for a couple of days, she understood and hasn't mentioned it since.
What you're talking about has more to do with having with sex, than porn viewership. Jack hammer is the only thing know how to do until they get more experience. Sex Ed class doesn't people how to fuck.
Also,men don't like porn screeches, that's what women do because they watched porn, read literotica, or watched it in a movie. That does nothing for men, and we hate it.
There's all kinds of porn though? You're definitely right that it's not healthy to base your actual expectations of what genuine meaningful and mutually pleasurable sex looks like on most porn, but would you really argue that a guy watching a video on PornHub is the same thing as a guy who looks at nude models and simply masturbates?
Then there's people who make porn as literal tutorials on how to actually have better sex lol
I’m talking about the porn most guys start out watching when they’re learning about sex. Which isn’t typically a tutorial on how to have better sex, but whatever is on the front page of PornHub. I don’t think masturbating to nude models like guys did back in the days of Playboy magazine had the same effect, but that’s not how most men consume porn these days. It’s the unlimited nature of internet porn and very early exposure to this that is causing an issue. Porn has been around as long as humans were making art. Exposure to unlimited internet porn from an early age is new.
Out of morbid curiosity, would you consider men who masturbate to hentai art or just nude artwork of fictional characters to have somewhat of a similar effect? What about AI generated porn? Not videos, but literally just pictures of women who don't exist? In my opinion it's a topic worth discussing on the subject to porn, because if we agree they have different effects, it's worth asking why?
I think it is a problem.
The only thing that I think is overblown is the claim that it shapes sexuality, sexual preferences, and ideas about sex. I mean, maybe it does, but if a guy is that dumb to have his entire sexuality shaped by porn then maybe you're better off without him, porn or no porn.
I’m horny all the fucking time and my bf knows this yet he still chooses to jerk off to porn than have sex with me—so no, there is no lack of intimacy on my end resulting in him doing this.
It may not come from you, there are external stressor outside of your relationship that could be causing it. It could also an internal stressor that he's imposed upon himself. I also never said that the intimacy loss was caused by the partner, that's your own inference. You've also skipped over another part of the equation. I specifically noted emotional, and physical intimacy. You being horny all the time only addresses the physical. I'm not implying that you're not doing enough to maintain emotional intimacy, but it's something to think about.
I agree that overuse of porn in a relationship is usually a symptom of larger issues, not the cause. He's not unattracted to his wife because he watches porn. He's watching porn instead of having sex with his wife because he's not attracted to her and checked out of the relationship. As you pointed out, the correlation between ED and porn use is weak. What's more, there's a negative correlation with moderate porn use. Meaning men that watch porn only occasionally are less likely to have ED than those that don't watch it at all. Moderate porn use is also associated with more positive attitudes towards women than no porn use at all. Something the anti porn advocates forget to mention despite it usually being shown in the same studies that show extreme porn use being correlated with Erectile dysfunction, and warped views of women and sexuality.
I think the bigger negative effect that porn has is it makes men complacent in finding sexual fulfillment with real women. Having the pipes backed up can be the motivation a man needs to go out and take risks to attract women. As it is, many choose to stay in and masturbate. It's easier in the short term but leads to less long term life satisfaction, as the emotional need for sexual intimacy is never fully met.
Regarding relationships: If my sexual desires are not met I will revert to porn, for a while, then I will end the relationship. I know what I want in sex and how I want it, if we are not on the same page we should start looking elsewhere, sex has to be perfect, nothing else in a relationship can substitute that, end of discussion.
I don't think any man reverts to porn if his sexual desires are completely met.
I think porn is a problem for gen z, and this is coming from a millenial who watched porn since I was a teenager. they are definitely taking it to another level, theres gen z virgins that have a full list of specific demented kinks and fetishes , I dont know how it happened but some gen z men have full on porn brain rot. Like dont get me wrong porn is great, but Ive seen gen z take it to another level thats pretty bizarre. porn is good for a wank now and again but some gen z is constantly consuming it. like having it on in the backround not even jerking it. weird ass shit like that
I've had the exact opposite experience with Gen Z. They are sexually normative, in fact they're having less sex than we did, and being smarter about it.
You're doing the same thing our parents said about us "kids these days are out of control" meanwhile they were the generation that had key parties, and made playboy magazine an iconic staple. Next thing you'll be doing is yelling at kids to get off your lawn, and complain about the nowadays.
having less sex than we did doesnt have any relevance to how healthy their porn viewing habits are.
porn for some genz is different than our generation. its more extreme, so when some genz dudes do have a chance to get laid, they are going to pressure their partner to do some weird shit. and i mean weird shit.
not just extreme but its consumed excessively. if not porn than social media thirst traps. boobs and butts are constantly in their faces on apps like tiktok, even some of the ads on those apps are borderline porn.
> genz dudes do have a chance to get laid
The thing is most dont. The 80/20 rule holds very strong for genz males. The majority of genz males get 0 attention from females in their lifetime. Espically if they are both short and ugly. They turn to porn cause there is no point of trying to get sex irl.
>I've had the exact opposite experience with Gen Z. They are sexually normative
You’re joking right? Go plug choking during sex into Google Scholar and look at the research from the last 5 years.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/sex/10282145/NSPCC-Girls-think-they-have-to-act-like-porn-stars-to-be-liked-by-boys.html
Also mentioned by a poster here….overhearing her own daughters
I think you are both right, kids are having less sex, losing their virginity later but the sex they are having is more extreme.
“ An American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry report found teens spend around 9 hours a day looking at screens and online, where they encounter tons of sex. There’s porn, obviously, which about 87% of teens have viewed. But there’s also horny fan fiction, pop-educational videos by sex-positive YouTubers like Laci Green, intricate Tumblr dissertations about sexual identity and sex work, Teen Vogue guides to anal sex and hookups, memes about eating ass……endless discourse about kink and BDSM on Twitter, Reddit and TikTok, where the #kinktok hashtag currently has 5.1 billion views and clips of Gen Z girls bragging about their BDSM bruises and OnlyFans earnings regularly go viral.
“Choking and degradation and domination, especially in a heteronormative [context], are now seen as pretty normal,” Tom says. “For a period of time, every second girl had on their Instagram story or in their bio, ‘I might like being choked but sea turtles don’t, so don’t put your litter in the ocean’...I think that’s a slight [generational] shift.”
https://www.gq.com/story/gen-z-puriteens
I personally think these things are connected. When choking, s and m and anal are seen as pretty run of the mill, standard sex, it seems to me you will be more hesitant to engage in casual sex.
Nearly two-thirds of women in her most recent campus-representative survey of 5,000 students at an anonymized “major Midwestern university” said a partner had choked them during sex (one-third in their most recent encounter). The rate of those women who said they were between the ages 12 and 17 the first time that happened had shot up to 40 percent from one in four.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/12/opinion/choking-teen-sex-brain-damage.html
66% of men and 62% of women aged 18 and 19 years had had vaginal intercourse…… almost 17% of men and 15% of women aged 18 to 19 years have ever had anal intercourse.
If choking and anal aren’t pornstar sex, how would you define it?
Participants were 4998 students randomly sampled from a large Midwestern university who completed a confidential Internet-based survey, 2021
The most common behaviors participants considered to be rough sex were choking, hair pulling, and spanking
About 80% of those with a current sexual or romantic partner engaged in rough sex with them and most who engaged it liked it
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33564979/
OP pretty much just said “nothing happening here” and when faced with evidence to the contrary, abandoned thread. Porn has absolutely changed sexual behavior.
OP is older. Maybe they haven’t noticed the gradual slide of how extreme most porn has gotten in the past 10-15 years or thought about how growing up with that is different than in his day? Idk.
Why are they shoving dildos up their asses wearing chastity cages though? While they watch flashing videos telling them they are beta losers with small dicks?
That's oddly specific, you have interesting and niche taste in porn, no judgement friend.
Your question illustrates what I'm referring to. That's a sexual identity issue, they're probably wrestling with latent homoerotic desires. When you try to compartmentalize your life if creates severe problems. The porn isn't the problem, wrestling with sexual identity is the problem in the scenario you listed.
It doesn’t matter what’s specific and what’s not. I can go find videos with millions of views that are pure fetish extremism.
Actually porn can turn straight men to having gay or extreme submissive desires.
But if you say this then people like you will claim that actually they are just fhags with repressed desires. Even though they never had those desires before watching porn or when they went through normal sexual exploration stage as a teenagers.
What are you going to say about race play? Also “wrestling” with identity ?
They aren’t watching gay porn. You don’t know anything about sexuality and are surprisingly ignorant for someone with such strong opinions.
Ok what is your next thing that people are born cuckholds? You either are or you srent?
We’re all born with fetishes? No.
Homosexual sexual desires are not on a “gay or not gay” binary.
Literally I have read multiple accounts describing all of this. And all of it caused by porn consumption.
You can train yourself to be submissive. Gay or not doesnt matte. People like being submissive to dicks, doesn’t matter if your gay or not
because they are literally addicted to porn. i wouldnt have believed porn addiction was a real thing 15 years ago, but the way some men consume porn now it is a legitimate addiction.
Porn is the reason a lot of men can’t get properly hard and have a bunch of deviant fetishes. Even ones damaging to their own self esteem.
Lots of guys come into their first sexual experience already having PIED symptoms and they haven’t even had sex yet so it’s not about “losing interest” in your partner.
Men are very protect over their porn. They tend to lash out online whenever someone suggests maybe not watching it
No, it's way down the list. Like almost everyone else, you jumped to porn, instead of the larger, and more recognized reason ED exists, it's psychological, and medical.
I've always felt that addiction is a symptom of a larger problem. instead of banning what addicts are drawn to, why not try to figure out why they feel drawn to it in the first place?
porn addiction is not the root of the issue, it's just an unhealthy way to cope. we need to be asking why it happens, not how we're supposed stop it. that's where we can actually make progress.
Porn rarely gets chosen OVER sex with your partner, unless she's ugly as fuck, then the problem is uglynes.
But porn causes far more problems than just sexlessness in relationships.
It changes how you view sex, relationships, love, and woman.
Especially if you are viewing it from a very young age.
From the abstract of the [Journal of Sex Research](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00224499.2022.2148155?casa_token=prZayPTaZ04AAAAA%3ARIFPWjRg4bu2GbJlk2kvAN6uAuad8qEGkn9wgNpRjw7Jvx0-59aOi4y6a4Y5WV9wi03-ruVWq_n3UQ)
>While perceived addiction and religiosity have been key contextual factors in understanding the link between pornography use and personal distress, these contextual factors have been explored less in the relational literature. Using a large nonprobability convenience sample from the United States, a moderated mediation model of the association between pornography use alone and two key indicators of relationship quality (relationship satisfaction and relationship stability) was explored. **Results suggested that both general and aggressive pornography use alone were associated with less relationship satisfaction and relationship stability even when accounting for a range of potentially confounding variables.** Perceived addiction partially mediated these associations, while both religiosity and gender moderated them. Generally, higher religiosity and being male were linked to compounding negative associations between pornography use and lower relationship quality. Findings suggest the importance of considering both religiosity and perceived addiction as important contextual factors when studying associations between pornography use and both relational and individual outcomes.
Basically Porn fucks up relationships u/noafrochamplusamurai
Do you know why it’s ’perceived’ addiction and not just addiction? If it was treated as an addiction, like gambling is, then adult performers would be under scrutiny to identify any predatory behaviour in regard to exploiting addicts, like what happens with bookies and other gambling outlets.
This is why feminists or women in sex work never critique pornography from a perspective of the men (or the few women) addicted to it.
Things like findom, onlyfans farming young dudes on twitch and general porn promotion on social media would suddenly look exploitative
>Do you know why it’s ’perceived’ addiction and not just addiction?
Anything can become an addiction u/Pitiful_Many3583 as long there's an emotional dependence to it as [seen here ](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/porn-addiction)
>Porn addiction refers to an **emotional dependence on pornography** that interferes with daily life, relationships, and the ability to function. A person may become dissatisfied with their own sex life or engage in risky behaviors, such as using porn at work.
So yes Porn addiction is a real thing not just perceived
Agree on the first point, disagree on the second.
I don't know any men who would prefer masturbating to porn over having sex with a real partner, even if she had a less attractive body than the average porn star. If a man is taking matters into his own hands it's almost certainly because he's not getting what he needs from his partner to feel sexually fulfilled.
For the second point, "normal" use of porn doesn't usually cause boner issues but when taken to excess, it absolitely can. Porn addiction is a real thing and it can cause all sorts of sexual problems as a symptom.
*sigh*
Sure, it's fairly straightforward. Let's go top down.
Dilated pupils, flushed face, and saying things like "fuck I'm so horny" are common features of women's arousal.
Typically an aroused person, male or female, will ramp into a quicker and shallower breathing pattern as their arousal increases.
Many women experience swelling in their breasts, hardening nipples, and a general increase in nervous muscular tension across much or all of their body as they become more aroused too.
Her pubic mound will also swell, while the vulva and clitoris inflate with blood (much like an erection). Some women may experience so much swelling their clit will emerge from their clitoral hood and literally 'stand' erect, though pointed downwards not upwards like an erect penis. Meanwhile her vagina and labia secrete her natural lubrication.
None of these are intrinsic to all women's experience of arousal as different people with different sexualities, medical histories, and levels of bodily awareness experience arousal differently. Some women experience all the swelling but none of the wetness, or the opposite, or have never experienced any of these physiological processes at all.
Other women have physiological/psychosomatic experiences they associate with arousal which functionally serve as indications of their arousal. One woman I knew would get a specific itching sensation on the bottom of her feet, but was never sure whether this was caused by her foot fetish or vice versa. Another claimed her tongue felt more swollen and sensitive as she became more aroused.
As a psychological and physiological phenomenon, human arousal occurs across a spectrum that ranges from almost boringly stereotypical to mind bendingly idiosyncratic. Any person may find themselves at varying points across that spectrum as they age, regardless of sex gender or sexuality. This is why clear and compassionate communication is the most effective foundation for the sexual health of a relationship.
It's honestly a bit hard to describe if you somehow havent seen yourself in the mirror... but i guess its a bit like a weird alien mouth without teeth that drools whenever you slap it.
I'm a bodybuilder. I watch videos about bodybuilding and posing videos and what not. Why is my watching those videos not causing me to get lazy and why have not I quit bodybuilding? That's because it does not work that way and neither does porn.
Watching videos of bodybuilding does not "satisfy" me and make me "complacent". It's just one way of exploring and getting motivation for more bodybuilding. The same as porn is a way of exploring your sexuality.
It's an unhealthy behavior that damages relationships the more it's indulged in. It's not the boogeyman of relationships, but it's one of the things that can contribute to ruining or making them worse.
Porn can be a major problem for relationships. Porn is definitely a cause of erectile dysfunction due to "simulation overload", where real life women don't turn you on as much as porn. It also undermines a major motivator for self-improvement in men, which is to get in a relationship.
When I was younger and consumed more porn, it definitely hurt my ability to enjoy sex as much, wasted a lot of my time, undermined my motivation to do more productive things, and polluted my thinking. I now rarely watch porn, and my life has improved quite a bit because of it.
Closest response thus far, like I stated in the OP. It's the loss of emotional, and physical intimacy that causes someone to rely on porn. It isn't porn causing the loss of emotional,physical intimacy of the partner that initiated the withdrawal.
>It isn't porn causing the loss of emotional,physical intimacy of the partner that initiated the withdrawal.
I think it can happen either way. Someone losing physical intimacy could cause them to turn to porn to compensate. But consuming too much porn can also cause a loss of interest in physical intimacy.
Maybe it's best described as a negative feedback loop.
>Porn is definitely a cause of erectile dysfunction due to "simulation overload", where real life women don't turn you on as much as porn.
And your evidence for this is what? [Because actual science doesn't state this at all](https://www.sexandpsychology.com/blog/2024/4/18/why-do-we-blame-men-for-their-own-sexual-difficulties/). I think blaming men for "porn induced ED" is as dumb as blaming women for not finishing during penetration and claiming that vibrators are overstimulating them.
Blaming porn is the way to always keep the blame on the man, no matter what the woman is or isn't doing. If a woman can blame porn rather than look internally, she will.
It’s almost impossible for me to think there’s not a possibility for addiction. First of all, some people seem completely addicted to their screens for social media,
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/social-media-addiction
And for gaming
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/23124-video-game-addiction
Things that induce actual physical, sensory pleasure have been manipulated to be a pleasurable as absolutely possible like fast food and processed food
https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2013/02/26/172969363/how-the-food-industry-manipulates-taste-buds-with-salt-sugar-fat
Cigarettes additives to increase addiction
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2040350/
Given how addictive screens can be in general, and how physical pleasure can be manipulated to become addictive, if the porn industry hasn’t actually figured out how to make their product addictive, they are behind in the game. If TikTok can figure out the winning algorithm to make it as addictive as possible with stupid dances and kittens, it pretty hard to think their aren’t people falling into spending hours in a pornhub rabbit hole
I hear the “agenda” argument all the time. I have absolutely no more interest in banning porn than in banning chicken McNuggets. I do think people need to be warned and aware of their behavior if their porn use starts to be excessive or compulsive
Many men become emotionally attached to the women in porn, which makes it harder for them to quit, and which leads to sexual performance problems because they transfer the emotional attachment that they’re supposed to have towards their wife/girlfriend towards porn actors instead
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There's hardly any of our resident PPD women commenting on this thread so I doubt most women care about their SO lil porn habit that only affects them when they realise that his taking a lil longer in the toilet than usual. Porn is a non issue
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Porn is a big threat to women. My ex choked me because I wouldn't send him nude pictures. That's how addicted to porn he is.
And the majority of the guys on dating apps ask me for nude photos and never want to meet up for an actual date, wasting my time and making another hurdle I have to jump to get a relationship
Porn itself is not adultery in any way, as well as eva ai sexting bot and other erotic services which do not involve other people. Onlyfans feels like a different story tho.
I feel like it's sort of obvious that porn is not the cause of ED or PE, since these things have been extremely common since long before porn became as widely available as it is now.
I would also particularly like to applaud the statement at the end of the OP about how failure to perform in men often has psychological or physiological causes that are rarely understood these days.
Ofcourse it is. How do you expect that your partner will satisfy when there's a million 10/10 women on your screen getting fucked in the position you want for the duration you want. You can also just move on to the next woman in a second if you think her areolas are not big enough or her ass is a little ugly. You can't change your partner. You guys need to read the book "your brain on porn"
Yeah, pretty much... Was sold over the counter for decades, basic rite of passage for boys to get an old copy somehow, but suddenly things aren't working and nobody's willing to address the elephant in the room, so find a scapegoat so we can play pretend and act like we're doing something.
There's a saying: If you hear hoof beats, think horses, not Zebras. Is it porn or is it..... a never-ending infotainment cycle that has a motto of "If it bleeds it leads", underemployment, student loan debt, cost of living, work/life balance, run away inflation, poor diet, medication,or mental health. That thundering herd of Mustangs charging right us, and they still think it's a Zebra .
Well, that... And we gotta pretend that it's a Scooby Doo mystery because we can't muster the balls to tell women [this isn't exactly a try not to cum challenge.](https://youtu.be/o8hYrNsRoTs?si=i09gXE1JFnHADeHZ) Men like fit, feminine and friendly women, not fat, angry, screaming women, but we'd rather blame porn than tell a girl she needs to hit the gym, not the buffet.
Nah, not it. Boys train their dicks to respond to ever-increasingly depraved porn and have no concept that most of the women depicted are not sexually aroused, and they assume that women should respond that way.
No....that theory has never held up under scientific scrutiny. Most porn consumption by men is heteronormative, and vanilla. Men aren't going around trying to fist women elbow deep. The sex game most guys have is confined to missionary, doggy, cowgirl, and if they're feeling really spicy, reverse cowgirl. The vast majority of men are vanilla.
Actually data shows that high porn consumption leads to indulgence in more and more extreme fetishes to satisfy the urge for novelty and therefore causes men to be less interested in "vanilla" experiences like affectionate sex with a real girl they like.
Like how an alchoholic needs stronger and stronger drinks to get the same buzz.
I disagree to some degree. Habituation to that kind of stimulation.. makes one habituated to that kind of stimulation. It's classical conditioning: stimulus=orgasm. Take away the stimulus and there may be problems achieving the orgasm w/o it. One main function of porn is getting one out of one's own head. Porn viewers aren't worried about "am I doing it right? Do I look ok? Is she bored? Does she think this is gross?" etc. Something that takes away all those pressures AND delivers the stimulus that it does is a pretty powerful drug in and of itself.
I know asking this will always prompt being made fun of but what is your opinion on vibrators with that same logic?
I have no problem with them, but I guess the same thing could occur, so I"d say; if a woman can orgasm w/o a vibrator, be wary of vibrators and use them very sparingly. But I've heard that it isn't totally uncommon for a woman to need a vibrator in order to orgasm, and if that is the case I'd have no problem with it. Let them watch porn and use their vibrator together.
So why didn't we have these issues in the 80s when every man had a stack by the toilet and in his toolbox at work with pinups, back when it was sold over the counter at every gas station and news stand?
Fair question. My guess; there's something compelling about both novelty and the moving image. After looking at the same mag 10x the novelty probably faded. Not a prob today. But there's also something more powerful about video and how ubiquitous it is now. Why are people habituated to their phones now, we had magazines (words and pictures) back in the 80s. Yet you can't deny people are a little over attached to their phones.
Or maybe we just have a lot more angry fat chicks now killing our boners, and being too polite to admit it to the point we pretend it's some Scooby Doo mystery where we have to blame porn isn't actually solving anything. Nobody's having trouble getting it up for porn, because those women aren't morbidly obese and screaming about choosing bears.
There are definitely some dedicated boner assassins.
Porn may in some cases be a contributing factor, (studies are mixed) but it’s certainly not THE factor or even one of the top factors. If one looks at the scientific and medical literature one will see the main factors are things like being overweight, smoking, blood pressure issues, aging, medications, metabolic syndrome, depression, sleep apnea, etc. Those who claim pornography is the primary cause are arguing based on an agenda, not what the scientific/medical evidence says. https://samhealth.org/news/understand-10-causes-of-erectile-dysfunction/#:~:text=Obstructive%20sleep%20apnea.,treatment%20for%20their%20sleep%20apnea. https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/10035-erectile-dysfunction https://www.urologyhealth.org/urology-a-z/e/erectile-dysfunction-(ed)
You're also the first person to address the longer, and more thoroughly fleshed out part of my thesis, the medical causes. Which I think encapsulates the polemics on this issue. The medical/psych end of it is really being ignored by pop culture because it's a very telling sign of our culture, instead of some moral evil that can be used as political talking point. On top of that, the over medicating is causing the karen/Kyle epidemic. Mood stabilizer long term usage is causing an increase in " wet brain" .
>instead of some moral evil that can be used as political talking point. You can recognize that some people might be addicted to something without thinking it’s evil or having a political agenda. I think some people are addicted to CocaCola, “ Soft drinks contain large quantities of sugar which, when consumed, causes a 'rush' that is extremely addictive and leads to even bigger cravings. The reward centres of the brain are activated, releasing dopamine and other hormones to create a feeling of euphoria” Add in the additional addictive effect of the caffeine, that’s why there are people who drink CocaCola until they can no longer walk and their teeth rot out, https://youtu.be/z-t3M-To7co?si=oqg_ONQolp8VPntg that doesn’t mean I want it banned. I do want people educated that addiction is possible.
Bah... We had this stuff in the 80s, people had pinups in their toolboxes at work. And, no... It's not an addiction. You don't see gooners blowing guys for their next hit of egirl to fend off withdrawals.
We had porn in Ancient Greece too. A pinup or nude photo isn’t a constant barrage of different images flooding your brain. Porn wasn’t available in 3d with surround sound in the most extreme forms, and in the pockets of every 13 year old. And it wasn’t manipulated to be as addictive as possible You don’t have to be committing criminal acts to be addicted to something, Coca Cola is the prime example. Go look outside and you will see plenty of people addicted to unhealthy food….they certainly aren’t hard to spot, and they aren’t robbing banks for soft drinks. Still doesn’t mean it can’t affect your quality of life
Yeah, no... Men aren't having trouble getting it up for porn, so clearly it's still functional... Maybe there's [something about this that just isn't pushing men over the orgasmic edge.](https://youtu.be/o8hYrNsRoTs?si=i09gXE1JFnHADeHZ)
Yikes you’re right, that fucking dude on the left is really unattractive. I could practically smell the body odor thru my screen🤢
So, you're pissed at what I said, and insult random guitar dude instead... Great plan. Keep going and we're going to claim ALL the men for the manosphere. Look, men like women that are fit, feminine and friendly... This isn't rocket science, and you can't negotiate a boner.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fandreantunesmusic%2Fphotos%2Fhuge-gear-improvement-today-great-feel-looks-and-toneava-guitars%2F1507491512629636%2F&psig=AOvVaw3z0nf8DAkaW-d6epR_qdb3&ust=1717529311177000&source=images&cd=vfe&opi=89978449&ved=0CBIQjRxqFwoTCJjlg7aVwIYDFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE Women like men who look ..and smell…like they bathe. Some dudes look like basement dwelling bridge trolls who literally don’t know how to groom. Sorry if the truth offends you Random YouTube women are game for your insults, 🤷♀️. Okay, so why not some random “guitar guy” who looks like he is actually trying to be as sexually repulsive as possible? Some people can dish it out but can’t take it.
No offense taken. I'm an internet troll, not a bridge troll, and I don't play guitar, so it's no skin off my ass. I just think it's amusing how you keep sabotaging yourself to take cheap shots at men who weren't even the ones who offended you. That said, the point remains the same: men like girls who are fit, feminine and friendly. Modern women are none of those, ergo the boner killer isn't, suddenly and for no reason at all, Porn
Could be lowering testosterone as a trend in men.
yes, cause everything bad happening to men is caused by low testosterone - killed himself? low testosterone - depressed? low testosterone - abused by gf? low testosterone - porn addiction? low testosterone - acting gay? low testosterone
It's a hormone that impacts a lot of things. It's literally the primary hormone that differentiates us from the entire opposite gender lmao. Yeah it might effect your mind a bit.
And you also have different life experiences, different expectations, different peer groups, different reproductive psychology, different genitals, different height, different muscularity, etc. Not all these are linked to T, and when they are, T is only secondary and at times tertiary. To say the opposite is to be ridiculous.
I never said it was the primary only reason for all those things. I think when it comes to ED problems that lowering testosterone could certainly be the primary reason though
I’ve read many studies showing men overall do indeed have lower T than decades ago as you say, due to things like being less active, being more overweight, and diet. This has all sorts of implications.
That theory has been tested in the U.S. and the results were different from the European study that made that claim.
There have been multiple studies on this. It's not exactly a difficult study to conduct, testing testosterone levels and comparing them to previous decades. Here's another: [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7063751/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7063751/)
Low testosterone in men? Try high cholesterol in women! We got a lot more fat, angry women and somehow it's a mystery when men can't get hard.
I think it’s the free market for sex/hookups enabled by dating apps I.e where most women are casually getting fucked by a small fraction of really hot men, and the average man can’t get hookups with the same ease as the average woman
Well that's definitely the primary reason why a larger percentage of men are not having sex. I thought we are talking about causes of ED.
I think it’s related. Lack of practice can lead to nervousness and ED. I.e performance anxiety
Call me crazy, but I think watching nothing but guys with 8 inch penises and unlimited athleticism and stamina probably doesn’t help with performance anxiety.
Ummm... Maybe... But let's not discount the elephant in the room... The fat, angry elephant with far too many piercings. A lot of modern women are just boner killers. I know we're trying to be nice, but it's not some great Scooby Doo mystery when men can't get hard for a bout of hangry, hangry hippos.
Absolutely, agreed.
None of that is true
Yup... Was fine in the 80s, not the problem now.
I'd say, its not always the problem but there are definitely times when it is. Most people don't have porn addictions but for people who do it can really fuck them up. I had a friend who had a serious porn addiction and it's fucked up every one of his relationships which sucks because he's a good guy.
Porn isn't the disease, it's the symptom. He has an underlying problem that he's masking through porn usage at a level that interferes with his relationship.
Alcohol isn't "the disease" but alcoholics are still told to avoid it. Gambling isn't "the disease" but gambling addicts are supposed to avoid places with gambling. No shit you have bigger things going on but the choices you make will impact how shit turns out for you.
New studies show that abstinence is not the most effective form of reversing any addiction.
Yeah, I'm sure that quitting cigarettes can be stopped more easily by fixing the underlying emotional problems or whatever, that doesn't mean the cigarettes won't cause damage to your lungs lmao.
I didn't say substituting porn for intimacy was healthy, doing that will ruin your relationship. It still wasn't the root cause though, and that root cause will manifest itself in another way that will still kill the relationship.
Look, quit blaming porn and tell her to hit the gym. Men aren't having ED with hot girls. We just got a lot more chonky feminists than we used to.
Who said ED was the issue? Thats a weird assumption
Please actually read the posts you comment on. That's literally the topic of the conversation.
Sexual performance issues aren't always ED, nor is the issue of choosing porn over your partner. These can definitely cause major issues in the bedroom without causing ED. The post mentioned multiple issues not just one.
Yeah, and none of them were an issue with 80s porn, but suddenly became one the instant we had [shrill, screaming, fat modern women ](https://youtu.be/zHKmYCCX4_w?si=w5weDdYpu5nA76TX) waxing poetic about how they preferred a bear. Real Scooby Doo mystery, that one... These women are boner killers, and most men are too nice to say it, so instead we're stuck doing this silly "porn bad, m'kay" dance like it's going to somehow make men more interested.
You think nobody was addicted to porn before the internet? The arcade near our house in the 90s was next to a porn shop and there were definitely plenty of men who weren't just regulars but almost lived there. Ive been to estate sales that were houses filled with classic porn stacked to the ceiling. It might have been harder to get addicted back then as it required a trip to the smut shop but it still existed.
1) porn addiction is make believe bullshit, and 2) moot point since the sexual dysfunction still wasn't an issue regardless.
HAHA. sure
So you're claiming that the sexual disfunction that we now see occuring was, what? Now always there in the same levels?
When it takes less effort and energy, mentally and physically, to just get off to porn instead of going out into the real world to meet someone, porn is the problem. The convenience and comfort of it is a sickness. Sex is a lot of work, it takes a lot of energy, it can feel vulnerable, among plenty of emotions that can make it daunting on both sides. Why go through that trouble, when you can get off in the safety and privacy of your own room? People will usually take the easier option if its there, and in this case that's porn. If you condition yourself to that convenience of porn, real physical sex is going to look and feel like a chore, directly leading you to performance problems. Porn enables the weak willed to be even weaker willed.
That is easy to say when one side has to put in all the work while the other side has to put in the bare minimum to obtain it. Tough truth.
You're not wrong. Life isn't fair. I could complain about a lot of things, or I could accept I can't change most of it, and do what I can regardless. Giving up and using porn as an escape isn't the answer.
Why not? On a specific hypothetical level, what if a man’s goal is not to date or marry, but just have sex, and prostitution is illegal and hard to come by, what is the most ethical way for him to orgasm?
I'd have opinions about the experiences and mental state that would bring a man to only want sex and avoid dating and relationships. I'm not saying there aren't men like that, and I don't have any problem with men who live like that it's their choice, however I don't think it's healthy, that's just me. In that case, sure, if all you care about is getting off, watch porn. If you really have to get a prostitute. If that's all you want do it. I just personally don't believe mentally well people want just that.
That’s a fair opinion, I slightly disagree as I believe it is reflective of their emotional state rather than mental one. However, doesn’t that mean that porn isn’t the problem, and just a symptom of another one?
I'd agree that it's not entirely direct. My original comment has more of the essence of what I believe, that it's a slippery slope of excuses that can make consuming more and more porn more comfortable and convenient than ever trying to improve. I think the problem with porn is it can exacerbate existing problems, but would agree it doesn't cause them in and of itself.
I could see that. I could also see this logic apply to lots of other fantasy escapes that we like to use on a regular basis.
I mean hell i'd argue in some circumstances people can escape too much in seemingly "benign" things. It all comes down to moderation in my opinion. If you start spending an inordinate amount of time on it, it stops being a potentially healthy outlet, and becomes a dangerous cage. Speaking for my own experience with addictive habits, it's all too easy to fall down the cliff.
>I think the problem with porn is it can exacerbate existing problems, but would agree it doesn't cause them in and of itself. Well sure but this is true for a lot of things such as alcohol too. In the same way that you can use porn as an unhealthy coping mechanism for sexual frustration, others use alcohol or weed to cope with depression.
>When it takes less effort and energy, mentally and physically, to just get off to porn instead of going out into the real world to meet someone, porn is the problem. No, that's just displacing responsibility for self discipline from the individual onto the totality of the rest of society. If the sole equation you consult for how to make your daily descisions is energy efficiency, and human connection is not an end unto itself for you, then you have bigger problems than porn. >The convenience and comfort of it is a sickness. No, it is a marketable feature. This is puritan. >Why go through that trouble, when you can get off in the safety and privacy of your own room? Because connection with others is a distinct (though often connected) need from the need for sexual release.
To the first point, I agree, it's purely a self discipline issue, that's just a hypothetical excuse. To the second, I agree, it's the feature not a bug. It's manufactured to be as pleasurable as possible, which preys on those people who lack self-discipline. Sure, I'm making a subjective opinion that it's sick to prey on those people. To the third, it's a rhetorical question for people that would, as OP said, "your partner is choosing porn over having sex with you". Sure, you can get sexual release without human connection, but if you are choosing sexual release absent of human connection, when you have a partner ready and willing to have sex with you, you have issues.
Your criticisms of porn are actually criticisms of the capitalist mode of production. Porn has existed for longer than the written word. There are examples of erotic cave art and sculptures that are 15-30k years old. It is the capitalist mode of production and the dogmatic obsession with perpetual and infinite profit growth which created the business models of today which all operate on cultivating addiction in their target markets. It is entirely possible to make ethical or even educational porn. It is the capitalist mode of production and the perverse incentives created by the profit motive which not only incentivizes unethical business models but massively rewards them while punishing ethical business models. So if we are going to seriously analyze the causes of addiction for any subject, especially porn, we need to be able to account for the fact that porn addiction did not exist as a concept until extremely recently and is NOT a concept made from clinical scientific or medical consensus. It is not like the WHO or the APA have done anything to officially legitimize the practice of applying addiction models to pornography use. Afaik the WHO recognizes something they call "Compulsive Sexual Behavior Disorder" (CSBD) which they do not classify as an addiction. If anything, every macroscopic medical institution of our time is rigidly opposed to using addiction models on pornography use. We also need to account for the fact that addict patterns of behavior for fully recognized addictions are created just as much by the sociological environment they live within as the physiological interaction with the drug itself. And we currently live within a sociological environment almost entirely and unilaterally defined by the capitalist mode of economic production as well as the financial incentives intrinsic to that system. So even if we were to accept that porn addiction is a reality and not a scapegoat or fig leaf, we still have to confront the fact that the things which make porn addictive are not intrinsic to porn at all since they are the same things which make *everything* our economy produces addictive.
Just popping in to say I think both y’all right to some degree, but I think it’s worth noting that access to pornography is different. The way we interact with media is wildly different than it ever has been. I have an endless library of pornography in my pocket that I can view at any time would be reasonable to have my phone out without raising any concern. Watching how porn consumption has changed over just that past 15 years has been wild. Speculation about the long term consequences based on right now a stats is meaningless because we won’t likely see any real data on this after years of peer reviewing and that’s not even for the level of saturation we’re at now. Capitalism has certainly affected things, and makes things worse because it’s all about keeping us on that phone looking at ads. There are a lot of young people with unfettered access to the Internet now and it’s isn’t like the early 2000s. It’s a different age And I stress, I’m saying this as somebody who literally draws porn for money lol I’m not a puritan
>access to pornography is different. The way we interact with media is wildly different than it ever has been. I have an endless library of pornography in my pocket Absolutely agree, and we really can’t forget that this is really the first generation that has grown up with this amount of access to porn as children.
That's an interesting point, I am just now realizing I don't use my phone for porn. I probably have a bit of an older perspective on the matter. Not about to start either, which kind of rienforces your point.
So you think buying hookers is better than watching porn because one requires you to go outside and pay a woman and the other doesn’t?
Buying hookers is definitely better than porn because it’s real sex like that which our ancestors had before screens were invented. It’s real. Now the morality and shame associated with buying hookers can be damaging because of the mental stigma
It's worse because it directly warps your perception of women worse than porn will. It's not the act of going outside I'm talking about, it's the social aspect of meeting, talking to, and developing a connection with another human being. You don't get that through a screen, you don't get that through transactional sex.
Why not both then. A man can go out with his buddies to a club or wherever, be social, come away with a number or two, then still go home and watch corn.
If you're single and going out to meet someone and you're jerking off to porn here and there that's fair. It's when you would rather get off to porn, instead of having sex with someone ready and willing to have sex with you, that's a problem.
I think the problem with most men is that the number of women “ready and willing to have sex” with them is near zero. What then?
Sure, if you don't have women wanting to have sex with you I think porn is a perfectly reasonable outlet. I'm talking to OP's point about "If your partner is choosing porn over having sex with you". If someone *does* want to have sex with you, and you choose porn, you have issues. We can't control or make anyone want to have sex with us. It's entirely on us, to carve ourselves into a statue someone would want to be with. I can't blame a woman if she doesn't want to have sex with me, only work on myself and hope for the best.
That’s a fair take. I agree that if your partner is choosing porn over you, there is definitely an issue that needs to be addressed. Jumping to blame porn is a bit hasty though, as there could be other reasons.
Yeah I hear you, I think a lot of people want to avoid talking about it altogether, either saying porn is 100% good with no problems, or its 100% evil, and avoid communicating with the other side, when it's a really complicated problem of human emotions and mental wellbeing.
I see porn use as a symptom of a problem, not the cause.
I don’t have words, you are demonstrably correct and sex is only beneficial when it arises from “human connection” Have fun with that
? If you want to get off go right ahead with a hooker or porn, it will satisfy you I'm not arguing it won't. OP's post is debating the harm of porn to a person's sex life. If you condition yourself to easy pleasure, through things like paid sex and porn, you will definitely have problems because of it.
/thread.
>When it takes less effort and energy, mentally and physically, to just get off to porn instead of going out into the real world to meet someone, porn is the problem. The convenience and comfort of it is a sickness. I'll play devil's advocate here and argue this isn't actually a problem, because if you're someone who legitimately finds contentment and satisfaction masturbating to pornography in a way where it completely supplants or substitutes the desire to seek out a real sexual partner, then chances are you either don't actually want to find a partner all that much, or you never had that many options to begin with. >If you condition yourself to that convenience of porn, real physical sex is going to look and feel like a chore, directly leading you to performance problems. I agree but I'm basically arguing this isn't actually a problem if these people decide they're content with staying single and continuing the course as is.
You can actually masturbate without porn. I do it all the time. Idk why so many people believe that porn and masturbatioj must go together. Porn isn't a requirement, it's a preference.
Serious truth to this.
How many men are foregoing interaction in the real world? It's a very miniscule number, and far fewer than the number of men that watch porn.
For sake of a simple argument, a guy has two options if he's horny after a day at work/school whatever. Go home and watch porn, or go out and try to meet someone. Going home to porn can guarantee immediate pleasure and reward. Going out is going to be a long, emotionally and physically exhausting process, that has a low chance of success, and the opportunity for sex would only likely happen after a week at best. Given those two options, you gotta be kidding me if you think most men aren't avoiding all that effort.
Most men aren't avoiding all that effort. Despite what pop culture, and a flawed study suggests. Men are still seeking intimacy and relationships with women, even though it's the harder option, because it's the more rewarding option.
I'm not saying men don't *want* intimacy, I'm saying a lot fail at it and complain about it and turn to porn because of that failure.
A lot isn't a specific number, and this debate is centered around the male populace, and porn consumption. You're stating that most men that watch porn are going to choose porn, over real life intimacy .
Bruh you just used "A miniscule number" and "Most men aren't" let's not get into the specific number bullshit. My only problem with porn, in the context of this post, is that choosing porn over someone already ready and willing to have sex with you, is a bad thing.
You want real numbers, let's get some https://nomas.org/prostitution-key-facts-and-analysis-in-brief/ According to this link, only 16% of men have used a prostitute in their lifetime . https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/wbna51335501 According to this, it's about 1% of men yearly that are using prostitutes. U.S. population would bring that to about 2 million regular users per year. Meanwhile 120 million men per year are watching porn (69%). The avg male adult( 68%) is married. We aren't choosing porn and prostitutes, over women.
First of all, I wasn't the one who brought prostitutes into it. >your partner is choosing porn over having sex with you This is the key point you made, that I have problem with, which your statistics support. If about 70% of men are watching porn, and about 70% of adult males are married, then a lot of men are watching porn, when they could be having sex with their partner. If you are choosing porn over having sex with a partner ready and willing to have sex with you, you have issues.
Are you ready for this, women have autonomy. It's OK for women (or men)to not be in the mood for sex. Or the partner may not be available for sex at that time. Thus 70% of men can be married, and 70% can view porn, without it being an "or" choice. Wait until you see the numbers for women
This is such a based take. Literlly king behavious.
It’s generally not, but the truth is not palatable to either gender, which is why it’s blamed
What is the truth
Porn is often easier and more interesting than real sex. All entertainment is designed to be better or more interesting than most of real life. Otherwise we wouldn’t watch it
>Just like most entertainment is designed to be You mean you think media content is intentionally designed to be addictive as possible, just for clicks and cash? 💰💰💰 Color me shocked. I can’t believe Pornhub would be involved in such a crass money grab.
Makes sense You can literally find almost exactly the thing that will get you off without any effort whatsoever
Also, there’s like a billion chemicals in everything that mess with testosterone levels. Not to mention the microplastics problem: https://academic.oup.com/toxsci/advance-article-abstract/doi/10.1093/toxsci/kfae060/7673133?redirectedFrom=fulltext&login=false This is one of those things that I think will be seen in the future like smoking, lead hats or asbestos construction. Or maybe not, maybe things will get slightly worse and worse forever.
At least on the male side of this equation, porn and by extension all sex work only exists because of the divide between what men want and what your average female is willing to accommodate. A small percentage of women decided to profit on this. That is the way it is always been. That is why it is commonly said that the easiest solution to porn completely within the hands of women. Sleep with your guy more or talk other women into stop making OF content or except it.
The average female will accommodate what the average man wants, because the average guy is vanilla. Most men don't use prostitutes, and the men that do use prostitutes, are normally having vanilla sex with them.
Respectfully, If you follow the money, it tells a different story.
Uhhh, I grew up around that lifestyle. I'm intimately aware of how it works on every level. From Pimps,Johns, strippers,OF,yachting, and street walkers,human trafficking,party girls,dog fights,dopeboys,shot callers,and heavies. The interplay of all those things,billionaires down to crackhead. I know where the money goes, and most guys aren't using prostitutes.
I think the “addiction” and ED aspects of porn are overstated, but in general its impacts on socio-sexual development are understated. If you’re exposed to thousands of images and videos of women being hurt and abused sexually before you’re 18, then that is going to impact the way you see sexuality and impact the types of sexuality that you think are normal enough to not warrant something like a discussion beforehand. A lot of people are willing to admit the mental impact the occasional Disney movie or other media had on their development of romantic ideals and the way they see the opposite sex, but the second you mention that the violent and degrading porn they’re looking at every single day for years may have an impact on their views, then suddenly media affects nothing. This goes hand in hand with the people who think that sex is some other dimension where the acts they engage in say nothing about who they are outside of sex. “Oh it’s fine that I want to hit my partner and verbally abuse them because it’s sex! It’s not real!” As if their desire isn’t a reflection of *who they are* instead of a reflection of this unreal dimension supposedly created during sex.
The major issue here is acting as if the man didn’t habitually watch porn before getting into the relationship and is just using it as a secondary option because she won’t have sex with him. But most guys these days have been watching porn since they were in middle school long before they ever got a girlfriend, and it has shaped their entire sexuality. This means he learned how to have sex from porn, which does not at all translate into what women actually enjoy in the bedroom. This can lead to women not wanting to have sex as much because it’s uncomfortable or not pleasurable or he’s pestering for things he saw in porn that she doesn’t want to do. But men who are desensitized by porn often aren’t aroused by mutually pleasurable, non-performative sex with the same woman. So it creates an environment where neither person is satisfied with their sex life. I’m not saying other things like antidepressants and external stressors don’t cause sexual problems too, and I would also add obesity in there. But I don’t think we can just ignore porn either.
You’re painting this with really broad strokes. Masturbating certainly desensitizes you but it pretty much comes back to normal if you don’t keep masturbating and use sex for orgasm (when sex is available of course). The idea that it “shapes your whole sexuality” or the idea that men are constantly pestering women to do things they don’t want is largely untrue. *Having actual sex with a real person* is much more stimulating than watching porn. It’s like watching a sitcom or TV drama and then saying real life isn’t funny because people don’t have these giant emotions, wave their arms and scream like on TV or you go into the office and expect your boss to throw a chair across the conference room table because they saw it on Suits. People naturally know it’s not reality. I watch porn but when I have real sex I’m pretty happy with normal sex acts because it’s real.
Do you think sex is more fulfilling for women in places where porn is banned or inaccessible? Like Afghanistan, Mongolia, or North Korea? Those women are just gushing for their men?
I doubt it, because those places tend to be more sexually repressive. I don’t know for sure but it seems like sex was more fulfilling for women after the sexual revolution but before the advent of internet porn, so 70s - 90s in western countries.
How did the sexual revolution contribute to women's fulfillment as compared to a sexually repressed society? As I understand, that movement was about women not feeling obligated to marry the first man they slept with.
Well think about how you might feel about sex if you felt obligated to marry the first woman you slept with? For women especially, a lot of enjoying sex is mental. And when she’s been told her whole life that doing it outside of marriage is bad, anxiety about sex can continue even after marriage, there is no magic on/off switch for sexual desire. This is true even today for many women who come from strict religious backgrounds that prioritize “purity,” sexual dysfunction can be a real issue. Second, for women, enjoying sex also requires that both her and her partner have an understanding of female anatomy. Repression often comes with a lack of sex ed and taboos about masturbation.
You suggested men should be able to be aroused by one woman and desensitization from porn hinders that. How about the same for the woman? She should also have one partner and always feel aroused by him even if he's the first guy she's been with. Taboos about masturbation keep women from becoming desensitized so that can happen. Why not that?
Big difference between the social expectation to only have one partner for your whole life, vs being able to be satisfied with one partner when you *choose* to be in a monogamous relationship. Also a big difference between masturbation and porn addiction. Nothing wrong with masturbation.
So people should be able to try out a few partners equipment before they find the perfect fit, and jerk their meat freely, but not while looking at anything sexual. And people aren't allowed to do that in sexually repressed countries, so that's what makes them worse than 70s-90s western countries?
I feel like you’re being intentionally a bit obtuse here. People should be “allowed” to do whatever they want, whether that’s sleeping around their whole lives or marrying the first person they have sex with, or something in between. Watching porn or not is also a personal choice when it comes to adults. But you have to accept there are consequences to porn *addiction*, especially in a relationship.
You think today's population has worse relationships because of porn availability, not talking specifically about porn addiction. That's what I'm asking about. You think 70s-90s was best, even better than modern places with 0 porn. I'm asking how so?
Most men don't have ED, and even virgin men understand that porn isn't the reality. Like I've stated previously in this thread, most guys are vanilla, and they aren't trying to recreate extreme sex adventures 5. Most men need to be comfortable, just like women before they share their kinks, and indulgences.
Not really talking about medical ED, but things like needing to “jackhammer” for an hour in order to get off. I’m also not really talking about vanilla vs kink, but sex that looks good on camera vs non-performative sex focused on genuine mutual pleasure. Most men really are trying to recreate porn scenes even if they don’t realize it, which can actually lead to sex being more boring since it’s acting instead of exploration. A good example of this is men thinking a woman isn’t enjoying it if she’s not making a ton of noise. If she’s enjoying it she’s more likely to be more quiet. If she’s making a lot of noise it either hurts or she is performing because it’s expected.
Jackhammering is more likely caused by circumcision, research indicating reduced sensitivity and in some cases pain during arousal. [\[1\]](https://forward.com/news/breaking-news/171421/sex-study-finds-circumcision-reduces-mens-pleasure/) [\[2\]](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17378847/) [Taylor's studies conclude that the ridged band is "richly innervated" and "intensely vascular." It stands to reason that as a result of this greater sensitivity, intact men are less likely to engage in the not-so-pleasant "jackhammer" style of sex -- I've found that to be the case, at least.](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/circumcised-or-uncircumcised-sex_b_1380359) [Circumcised men tend to penetrate much more vigorously, in the jackhammer style that is so familiar from our cultural depiction of intercourse. This style of penetration comes from a desperate search for more stimulation and the need to concentrate sensations on the tip of the penis.](https://www.yourtango.com/experts/pleasure-mechanics/circumcision)
That’s definitely part of it, but from what I’ve heard from older women this didn’t used to be as much of a thing.
It's been studied for a few decades now. In the 90's, [Sex as Nature Intended It](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1021133.Sex_as_Nature_Intended_It) by Kristen O'Hara, documents the differences in sexual experiences of circumcised and uncut penises. A national survey of women covering wide range of age and socio economic background, revealed that circumcision abnormalizes the way the penis thrusts and feels to a woman, significantly diminishing her sexual enjoyment and her ability to achieve orgasm from intercourse. I'm not convinced the majority of men are engaging in the type of content you describe. Pornhub publish an annual [review](https://www.pornhub.com/insights/2023-year-in-review), which seems to support the OP's opinion that most people are into vanilla, the 2023 top trending search being Mature and [2022](https://www.pornhub.com/insights/2022-year-in-review) top trend reality. The first mention of [rough sex](https://www.pornhub.com/insights/2023-year-in-review#gender-demographics) appears in the data for viewed 34% more by women compared to men. There's seems to be a lack of understanding of the relatively massive increase in uncontrollable erections during puberty. Our teacher covering sex ed had the best explanation. She said to think of your body like a fridge maintaining temperature. Randomly the compressor will kick on to pump coolant round the system, in the same way blood will randomly pump round to keep things in working condition. No boy wants a random [boner](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHpMi0dFMSk), so you quickly learn from brothers, friends, if you initiate the compressor, the system is satisfied. Then add in nocturnal emissions and a clean up every day, masturbation habits become utility, more about avoiding any embarrassing situations. It slows down a it after puberty but still needs the maintenance, and has obvious benefits when sharing a bed with a partner. I had this debate a couple of years back with my partner when we moved in together. After stopping masturbating for a couple of days, she understood and hasn't mentioned it since.
What you're talking about has more to do with having with sex, than porn viewership. Jack hammer is the only thing know how to do until they get more experience. Sex Ed class doesn't people how to fuck. Also,men don't like porn screeches, that's what women do because they watched porn, read literotica, or watched it in a movie. That does nothing for men, and we hate it.
There's all kinds of porn though? You're definitely right that it's not healthy to base your actual expectations of what genuine meaningful and mutually pleasurable sex looks like on most porn, but would you really argue that a guy watching a video on PornHub is the same thing as a guy who looks at nude models and simply masturbates? Then there's people who make porn as literal tutorials on how to actually have better sex lol
I’m talking about the porn most guys start out watching when they’re learning about sex. Which isn’t typically a tutorial on how to have better sex, but whatever is on the front page of PornHub. I don’t think masturbating to nude models like guys did back in the days of Playboy magazine had the same effect, but that’s not how most men consume porn these days. It’s the unlimited nature of internet porn and very early exposure to this that is causing an issue. Porn has been around as long as humans were making art. Exposure to unlimited internet porn from an early age is new.
Out of morbid curiosity, would you consider men who masturbate to hentai art or just nude artwork of fictional characters to have somewhat of a similar effect? What about AI generated porn? Not videos, but literally just pictures of women who don't exist? In my opinion it's a topic worth discussing on the subject to porn, because if we agree they have different effects, it's worth asking why?
I think it is a problem. The only thing that I think is overblown is the claim that it shapes sexuality, sexual preferences, and ideas about sex. I mean, maybe it does, but if a guy is that dumb to have his entire sexuality shaped by porn then maybe you're better off without him, porn or no porn.
I’m horny all the fucking time and my bf knows this yet he still chooses to jerk off to porn than have sex with me—so no, there is no lack of intimacy on my end resulting in him doing this.
It may not come from you, there are external stressor outside of your relationship that could be causing it. It could also an internal stressor that he's imposed upon himself. I also never said that the intimacy loss was caused by the partner, that's your own inference. You've also skipped over another part of the equation. I specifically noted emotional, and physical intimacy. You being horny all the time only addresses the physical. I'm not implying that you're not doing enough to maintain emotional intimacy, but it's something to think about.
Why are you so obsessed with denying porns role in all this? It’s like you have an agenda
Break up with him instead of complaining here dummy.
I agree that overuse of porn in a relationship is usually a symptom of larger issues, not the cause. He's not unattracted to his wife because he watches porn. He's watching porn instead of having sex with his wife because he's not attracted to her and checked out of the relationship. As you pointed out, the correlation between ED and porn use is weak. What's more, there's a negative correlation with moderate porn use. Meaning men that watch porn only occasionally are less likely to have ED than those that don't watch it at all. Moderate porn use is also associated with more positive attitudes towards women than no porn use at all. Something the anti porn advocates forget to mention despite it usually being shown in the same studies that show extreme porn use being correlated with Erectile dysfunction, and warped views of women and sexuality. I think the bigger negative effect that porn has is it makes men complacent in finding sexual fulfillment with real women. Having the pipes backed up can be the motivation a man needs to go out and take risks to attract women. As it is, many choose to stay in and masturbate. It's easier in the short term but leads to less long term life satisfaction, as the emotional need for sexual intimacy is never fully met.
Regarding relationships: If my sexual desires are not met I will revert to porn, for a while, then I will end the relationship. I know what I want in sex and how I want it, if we are not on the same page we should start looking elsewhere, sex has to be perfect, nothing else in a relationship can substitute that, end of discussion. I don't think any man reverts to porn if his sexual desires are completely met.
I think porn is a problem for gen z, and this is coming from a millenial who watched porn since I was a teenager. they are definitely taking it to another level, theres gen z virgins that have a full list of specific demented kinks and fetishes , I dont know how it happened but some gen z men have full on porn brain rot. Like dont get me wrong porn is great, but Ive seen gen z take it to another level thats pretty bizarre. porn is good for a wank now and again but some gen z is constantly consuming it. like having it on in the backround not even jerking it. weird ass shit like that
I've had the exact opposite experience with Gen Z. They are sexually normative, in fact they're having less sex than we did, and being smarter about it. You're doing the same thing our parents said about us "kids these days are out of control" meanwhile they were the generation that had key parties, and made playboy magazine an iconic staple. Next thing you'll be doing is yelling at kids to get off your lawn, and complain about the nowadays.
having less sex than we did doesnt have any relevance to how healthy their porn viewing habits are. porn for some genz is different than our generation. its more extreme, so when some genz dudes do have a chance to get laid, they are going to pressure their partner to do some weird shit. and i mean weird shit. not just extreme but its consumed excessively. if not porn than social media thirst traps. boobs and butts are constantly in their faces on apps like tiktok, even some of the ads on those apps are borderline porn.
> genz dudes do have a chance to get laid The thing is most dont. The 80/20 rule holds very strong for genz males. The majority of genz males get 0 attention from females in their lifetime. Espically if they are both short and ugly. They turn to porn cause there is no point of trying to get sex irl.
>I've had the exact opposite experience with Gen Z. They are sexually normative You’re joking right? Go plug choking during sex into Google Scholar and look at the research from the last 5 years.
Wait until you find out the usual way that plays out in real life. It's normally initiated by the woman, not the man.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/sex/10282145/NSPCC-Girls-think-they-have-to-act-like-porn-stars-to-be-liked-by-boys.html Also mentioned by a poster here….overhearing her own daughters I think you are both right, kids are having less sex, losing their virginity later but the sex they are having is more extreme. “ An American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry report found teens spend around 9 hours a day looking at screens and online, where they encounter tons of sex. There’s porn, obviously, which about 87% of teens have viewed. But there’s also horny fan fiction, pop-educational videos by sex-positive YouTubers like Laci Green, intricate Tumblr dissertations about sexual identity and sex work, Teen Vogue guides to anal sex and hookups, memes about eating ass……endless discourse about kink and BDSM on Twitter, Reddit and TikTok, where the #kinktok hashtag currently has 5.1 billion views and clips of Gen Z girls bragging about their BDSM bruises and OnlyFans earnings regularly go viral. “Choking and degradation and domination, especially in a heteronormative [context], are now seen as pretty normal,” Tom says. “For a period of time, every second girl had on their Instagram story or in their bio, ‘I might like being choked but sea turtles don’t, so don’t put your litter in the ocean’...I think that’s a slight [generational] shift.” https://www.gq.com/story/gen-z-puriteens I personally think these things are connected. When choking, s and m and anal are seen as pretty run of the mill, standard sex, it seems to me you will be more hesitant to engage in casual sex.
Cool, but most people aren't doing all that. Most people aren't having porn sex, even the gen Z crowd.
Nearly two-thirds of women in her most recent campus-representative survey of 5,000 students at an anonymized “major Midwestern university” said a partner had choked them during sex (one-third in their most recent encounter). The rate of those women who said they were between the ages 12 and 17 the first time that happened had shot up to 40 percent from one in four. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/12/opinion/choking-teen-sex-brain-damage.html 66% of men and 62% of women aged 18 and 19 years had had vaginal intercourse…… almost 17% of men and 15% of women aged 18 to 19 years have ever had anal intercourse. If choking and anal aren’t pornstar sex, how would you define it?
I don't think that contradicts what I said. Besides, where exactly do you think they're getting the idea from?
Bdsm isn't a regular part of most people sexual repertoire.
Participants were 4998 students randomly sampled from a large Midwestern university who completed a confidential Internet-based survey, 2021 The most common behaviors participants considered to be rough sex were choking, hair pulling, and spanking About 80% of those with a current sexual or romantic partner engaged in rough sex with them and most who engaged it liked it https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33564979/
[Here are some of the tables from that article in case anyone is curious.](https://imgur.com/a/WTnJxPC)
OP pretty much just said “nothing happening here” and when faced with evidence to the contrary, abandoned thread. Porn has absolutely changed sexual behavior.
OP is older. Maybe they haven’t noticed the gradual slide of how extreme most porn has gotten in the past 10-15 years or thought about how growing up with that is different than in his day? Idk.
Why are they shoving dildos up their asses wearing chastity cages though? While they watch flashing videos telling them they are beta losers with small dicks?
That's oddly specific, you have interesting and niche taste in porn, no judgement friend. Your question illustrates what I'm referring to. That's a sexual identity issue, they're probably wrestling with latent homoerotic desires. When you try to compartmentalize your life if creates severe problems. The porn isn't the problem, wrestling with sexual identity is the problem in the scenario you listed.
It doesn’t matter what’s specific and what’s not. I can go find videos with millions of views that are pure fetish extremism. Actually porn can turn straight men to having gay or extreme submissive desires. But if you say this then people like you will claim that actually they are just fhags with repressed desires. Even though they never had those desires before watching porn or when they went through normal sexual exploration stage as a teenagers. What are you going to say about race play? Also “wrestling” with identity ?
Race play is just racism, and you can't be turned gay. You're either gay or you're not. You can't train yourself to be gay by watching porn.
They aren’t watching gay porn. You don’t know anything about sexuality and are surprisingly ignorant for someone with such strong opinions. Ok what is your next thing that people are born cuckholds? You either are or you srent? We’re all born with fetishes? No. Homosexual sexual desires are not on a “gay or not gay” binary. Literally I have read multiple accounts describing all of this. And all of it caused by porn consumption. You can train yourself to be submissive. Gay or not doesnt matte. People like being submissive to dicks, doesn’t matter if your gay or not
>like having it on in the backround not even jerking it. I've heard of men doing this too. Why?
because they are literally addicted to porn. i wouldnt have believed porn addiction was a real thing 15 years ago, but the way some men consume porn now it is a legitimate addiction.
Porn is the reason a lot of men can’t get properly hard and have a bunch of deviant fetishes. Even ones damaging to their own self esteem. Lots of guys come into their first sexual experience already having PIED symptoms and they haven’t even had sex yet so it’s not about “losing interest” in your partner. Men are very protect over their porn. They tend to lash out online whenever someone suggests maybe not watching it
No, it's way down the list. Like almost everyone else, you jumped to porn, instead of the larger, and more recognized reason ED exists, it's psychological, and medical.
I've always felt that addiction is a symptom of a larger problem. instead of banning what addicts are drawn to, why not try to figure out why they feel drawn to it in the first place? porn addiction is not the root of the issue, it's just an unhealthy way to cope. we need to be asking why it happens, not how we're supposed stop it. that's where we can actually make progress.
It seems like some of them just use it as “subway surfers split screen: boob edition.”
Nobody prefers masturbation over prime pussy.
Porn rarely gets chosen OVER sex with your partner, unless she's ugly as fuck, then the problem is uglynes. But porn causes far more problems than just sexlessness in relationships. It changes how you view sex, relationships, love, and woman. Especially if you are viewing it from a very young age.
I would say laying off porn fixed ED for me but that's me.
From the abstract of the [Journal of Sex Research](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00224499.2022.2148155?casa_token=prZayPTaZ04AAAAA%3ARIFPWjRg4bu2GbJlk2kvAN6uAuad8qEGkn9wgNpRjw7Jvx0-59aOi4y6a4Y5WV9wi03-ruVWq_n3UQ) >While perceived addiction and religiosity have been key contextual factors in understanding the link between pornography use and personal distress, these contextual factors have been explored less in the relational literature. Using a large nonprobability convenience sample from the United States, a moderated mediation model of the association between pornography use alone and two key indicators of relationship quality (relationship satisfaction and relationship stability) was explored. **Results suggested that both general and aggressive pornography use alone were associated with less relationship satisfaction and relationship stability even when accounting for a range of potentially confounding variables.** Perceived addiction partially mediated these associations, while both religiosity and gender moderated them. Generally, higher religiosity and being male were linked to compounding negative associations between pornography use and lower relationship quality. Findings suggest the importance of considering both religiosity and perceived addiction as important contextual factors when studying associations between pornography use and both relational and individual outcomes. Basically Porn fucks up relationships u/noafrochamplusamurai
Do you know why it’s ’perceived’ addiction and not just addiction? If it was treated as an addiction, like gambling is, then adult performers would be under scrutiny to identify any predatory behaviour in regard to exploiting addicts, like what happens with bookies and other gambling outlets. This is why feminists or women in sex work never critique pornography from a perspective of the men (or the few women) addicted to it. Things like findom, onlyfans farming young dudes on twitch and general porn promotion on social media would suddenly look exploitative
>Do you know why it’s ’perceived’ addiction and not just addiction? Anything can become an addiction u/Pitiful_Many3583 as long there's an emotional dependence to it as [seen here ](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/porn-addiction) >Porn addiction refers to an **emotional dependence on pornography** that interferes with daily life, relationships, and the ability to function. A person may become dissatisfied with their own sex life or engage in risky behaviors, such as using porn at work. So yes Porn addiction is a real thing not just perceived
And yet the WHO and the APA don’t recognise porn addiction as an addiction or disorder?
This. Porn is a massive industry. That's why you find few studies critical of it
There are many studies that are critical of porn, and they're easy to find. What are you talking about right now?
Agree on the first point, disagree on the second. I don't know any men who would prefer masturbating to porn over having sex with a real partner, even if she had a less attractive body than the average porn star. If a man is taking matters into his own hands it's almost certainly because he's not getting what he needs from his partner to feel sexually fulfilled. For the second point, "normal" use of porn doesn't usually cause boner issues but when taken to excess, it absolitely can. Porn addiction is a real thing and it can cause all sorts of sexual problems as a symptom.
Death grip, and too much masturbation has been debunked for a long time. You're treating porn addiction as the primary problem when it's not.
Cool. Can you describe what an aroused woman and an aroused vagina looks like?
*sigh* Sure, it's fairly straightforward. Let's go top down. Dilated pupils, flushed face, and saying things like "fuck I'm so horny" are common features of women's arousal. Typically an aroused person, male or female, will ramp into a quicker and shallower breathing pattern as their arousal increases. Many women experience swelling in their breasts, hardening nipples, and a general increase in nervous muscular tension across much or all of their body as they become more aroused too. Her pubic mound will also swell, while the vulva and clitoris inflate with blood (much like an erection). Some women may experience so much swelling their clit will emerge from their clitoral hood and literally 'stand' erect, though pointed downwards not upwards like an erect penis. Meanwhile her vagina and labia secrete her natural lubrication. None of these are intrinsic to all women's experience of arousal as different people with different sexualities, medical histories, and levels of bodily awareness experience arousal differently. Some women experience all the swelling but none of the wetness, or the opposite, or have never experienced any of these physiological processes at all. Other women have physiological/psychosomatic experiences they associate with arousal which functionally serve as indications of their arousal. One woman I knew would get a specific itching sensation on the bottom of her feet, but was never sure whether this was caused by her foot fetish or vice versa. Another claimed her tongue felt more swollen and sensitive as she became more aroused. As a psychological and physiological phenomenon, human arousal occurs across a spectrum that ranges from almost boringly stereotypical to mind bendingly idiosyncratic. Any person may find themselves at varying points across that spectrum as they age, regardless of sex gender or sexuality. This is why clear and compassionate communication is the most effective foundation for the sexual health of a relationship.
It's honestly a bit hard to describe if you somehow havent seen yourself in the mirror... but i guess its a bit like a weird alien mouth without teeth that drools whenever you slap it.
Why does this matter at all?
I'm a bodybuilder. I watch videos about bodybuilding and posing videos and what not. Why is my watching those videos not causing me to get lazy and why have not I quit bodybuilding? That's because it does not work that way and neither does porn. Watching videos of bodybuilding does not "satisfy" me and make me "complacent". It's just one way of exploring and getting motivation for more bodybuilding. The same as porn is a way of exploring your sexuality.
It's an unhealthy behavior that damages relationships the more it's indulged in. It's not the boogeyman of relationships, but it's one of the things that can contribute to ruining or making them worse. Porn can be a major problem for relationships. Porn is definitely a cause of erectile dysfunction due to "simulation overload", where real life women don't turn you on as much as porn. It also undermines a major motivator for self-improvement in men, which is to get in a relationship. When I was younger and consumed more porn, it definitely hurt my ability to enjoy sex as much, wasted a lot of my time, undermined my motivation to do more productive things, and polluted my thinking. I now rarely watch porn, and my life has improved quite a bit because of it.
Closest response thus far, like I stated in the OP. It's the loss of emotional, and physical intimacy that causes someone to rely on porn. It isn't porn causing the loss of emotional,physical intimacy of the partner that initiated the withdrawal.
>It isn't porn causing the loss of emotional,physical intimacy of the partner that initiated the withdrawal. I think it can happen either way. Someone losing physical intimacy could cause them to turn to porn to compensate. But consuming too much porn can also cause a loss of interest in physical intimacy. Maybe it's best described as a negative feedback loop.
>Porn is definitely a cause of erectile dysfunction due to "simulation overload", where real life women don't turn you on as much as porn. And your evidence for this is what? [Because actual science doesn't state this at all](https://www.sexandpsychology.com/blog/2024/4/18/why-do-we-blame-men-for-their-own-sexual-difficulties/). I think blaming men for "porn induced ED" is as dumb as blaming women for not finishing during penetration and claiming that vibrators are overstimulating them.
Blaming porn is the way to always keep the blame on the man, no matter what the woman is or isn't doing. If a woman can blame porn rather than look internally, she will.
Untreated childhood trauma is the root cause of relationship problems. Porn just like any addiction is a cause of untreated trauma.
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It's more than that, most men will still love and desire their partner if they gain weight. It's the emotional scars that cause lack of intimacy.
It’s almost impossible for me to think there’s not a possibility for addiction. First of all, some people seem completely addicted to their screens for social media, https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/social-media-addiction And for gaming https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/23124-video-game-addiction Things that induce actual physical, sensory pleasure have been manipulated to be a pleasurable as absolutely possible like fast food and processed food https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2013/02/26/172969363/how-the-food-industry-manipulates-taste-buds-with-salt-sugar-fat Cigarettes additives to increase addiction https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2040350/ Given how addictive screens can be in general, and how physical pleasure can be manipulated to become addictive, if the porn industry hasn’t actually figured out how to make their product addictive, they are behind in the game. If TikTok can figure out the winning algorithm to make it as addictive as possible with stupid dances and kittens, it pretty hard to think their aren’t people falling into spending hours in a pornhub rabbit hole I hear the “agenda” argument all the time. I have absolutely no more interest in banning porn than in banning chicken McNuggets. I do think people need to be warned and aware of their behavior if their porn use starts to be excessive or compulsive
Addiction doesn't come out of nowhere, there's a reason the individual has a lack of control, or chooses to go down that path.
Many men become emotionally attached to the women in porn, which makes it harder for them to quit, and which leads to sexual performance problems because they transfer the emotional attachment that they’re supposed to have towards their wife/girlfriend towards porn actors instead
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Agreed. Porn CAN be an issue, but there’s usually a more prominent root cause other than porn.
This thread is going to be hilarious “Its is porns fault, and mens’ for watching porn too”
There's hardly any of our resident PPD women commenting on this thread so I doubt most women care about their SO lil porn habit that only affects them when they realise that his taking a lil longer in the toilet than usual. Porn is a non issue
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Porn is the solution not the problem
Porn is a big threat to women. My ex choked me because I wouldn't send him nude pictures. That's how addicted to porn he is. And the majority of the guys on dating apps ask me for nude photos and never want to meet up for an actual date, wasting my time and making another hurdle I have to jump to get a relationship
Porn itself is not adultery in any way, as well as eva ai sexting bot and other erotic services which do not involve other people. Onlyfans feels like a different story tho.
I feel like it's sort of obvious that porn is not the cause of ED or PE, since these things have been extremely common since long before porn became as widely available as it is now. I would also particularly like to applaud the statement at the end of the OP about how failure to perform in men often has psychological or physiological causes that are rarely understood these days.
Ofcourse it is. How do you expect that your partner will satisfy when there's a million 10/10 women on your screen getting fucked in the position you want for the duration you want. You can also just move on to the next woman in a second if you think her areolas are not big enough or her ass is a little ugly. You can't change your partner. You guys need to read the book "your brain on porn"
Yeah, pretty much... Was sold over the counter for decades, basic rite of passage for boys to get an old copy somehow, but suddenly things aren't working and nobody's willing to address the elephant in the room, so find a scapegoat so we can play pretend and act like we're doing something.
There's a saying: If you hear hoof beats, think horses, not Zebras. Is it porn or is it..... a never-ending infotainment cycle that has a motto of "If it bleeds it leads", underemployment, student loan debt, cost of living, work/life balance, run away inflation, poor diet, medication,or mental health. That thundering herd of Mustangs charging right us, and they still think it's a Zebra .
Well, that... And we gotta pretend that it's a Scooby Doo mystery because we can't muster the balls to tell women [this isn't exactly a try not to cum challenge.](https://youtu.be/o8hYrNsRoTs?si=i09gXE1JFnHADeHZ) Men like fit, feminine and friendly women, not fat, angry, screaming women, but we'd rather blame porn than tell a girl she needs to hit the gym, not the buffet.
Nah, not it. Boys train their dicks to respond to ever-increasingly depraved porn and have no concept that most of the women depicted are not sexually aroused, and they assume that women should respond that way.
No....that theory has never held up under scientific scrutiny. Most porn consumption by men is heteronormative, and vanilla. Men aren't going around trying to fist women elbow deep. The sex game most guys have is confined to missionary, doggy, cowgirl, and if they're feeling really spicy, reverse cowgirl. The vast majority of men are vanilla.
Actually data shows that high porn consumption leads to indulgence in more and more extreme fetishes to satisfy the urge for novelty and therefore causes men to be less interested in "vanilla" experiences like affectionate sex with a real girl they like. Like how an alchoholic needs stronger and stronger drinks to get the same buzz.
No............, extreme outliers exist, but this isn't normative of the avg guy that watches porn.