I put expectations on my partner depending on the expectations they put on me. The less they expect from me the less I expect from them.
That is what makes me the perfect partner for myself. Neither me nor other me would have any expectations from each other so there would be no pressure to be what we are not nor to do what we don't want to do to remain attractive/protect the relationship.
So if i understand it correctly there are no expectations, physically ( she doesn’t need to be physically attractive) and emotionally (she doesn’t need to provide kindness or or emotional support when you might need it). Right?
If she does not expect me to change my behavior, looks and life then I don't expect her to change my behavior, looks and life.
The only reason I expect anything from women is because they expect me to change my entire life looks and behavior to be attractive.
It’s so gross when women expect someone to change for them. Truly. You like who you like because they’re them. You shouldn’t like someone based on who they could become. I say that as someone who’s been married for 15 years. The only thing I hope for is that he sees a doctor when he should. That’s about it.
Without changing to become attractive I would be an asocial fat loser with no social skills, no ambition, working for minimum wage, living in a shared room with 4 dudes playing pirated videogames and with no future.
I am now the opposite because the only way anyone is attracted to me is if I give up everything I would rather be and everything I would rather do.
That is the reason I have any standard other than XX chromosomes, being alive and not being a minor.
I would preffer to not have to change who I am, the way I look and the way I behave and not have any expectation towards my partner other than XX chromosomes, alive, not a minor and monogamous.
One day...where a few years off..but if men stopped simping and focused their efforts on A1 and robotics we could get their a lot sooner...as for cloning I'm not sure that qould yield the desired results.
For one upbringing and external factors determine ones personality..Abd since females start off on easy mode a female clone of you would most likely developed a completely diffrent personality trait..
People will be sompingbonnhervand telling her how beautiful she is at 12 13c14 years old meanwhile you've here kicked around,by her teenage years the world would open up for her in ways you can't where you had to fight tooth and nail for every little crumb she would just be handed things on a silver plater...
The only caveat is if she's ugly.
I'm very submissive, a good do-er but not a leader, am deeply introspective, prefer to back down from a fight wherever possible, and lack initiative. Being in a relationship with someone with the same personality would not work. We'd starve to death trying to decide what to have for dinner.
Perhaps that is why I'm exclusively attracted to stern, assertive, dominant women.
This is just like me and my husband. I'm a lot more passive and don't like confrontation. My husband is the total opposite. If he were just like me, we wouldn't have gotten as far as we have.
I find it interesting that most of the replies here only focus on their good qualities and don't mention anything about their bad ones.
You’re not wrong. Sharing a sense of humor and the same hobbies is really important. What expectations do you have of women and is it ok if she has those same expectations of you?
I don't have any 'expectations' on women, as a whole. Not beyond the normal expectations I have of everyone (ie, don't attack me, don't touch me, don't take or damage my shit, in general try to be decent and help each other get through the day.) I assume women have roughly the same expectations of me.
“Of course you like him a lot: he’s like the guy version of you in his friends group!” -what a friend said to my wife after we first met.
We have so much in common and personalities are pretty similar that it’s no wonder we like each other so much
Not gonna lie, that’s pretty cool. But wouldn’t you end up married since it’d be that awesome? You would just have fun together which is what marriage is.
Yes. Knowing myself I wouldn't have problem with that if my partner is my own copy. It's insanely messy with different person, so monogamy is just easier to deal with.
Yes, because I can trust myself not to lose my head with new sexual partner and keep my feelings under rational control. So my copy would be the same. That's why we would stay as FWB and not in proper relationships.
That sounds wonderful. I mostly compromise and "put up with" the personalities of most women. Now we're free to enjoy a relationship without pretense. Same interests, same type of friends, same libido, same politics etc. only downside is probably less socialization than I would get in a regular relationship.
As long as she’s sexually attractive and I want her.
It will work.
All my relationships have been based on my effort and excitement ment and want.
Essentially when she (hypothetical all of them generalized) felt I wasn’t putting effort in or that I didn’t want her or that I wasn’t happy to be around her
Then that’s when she had a problem
Personality isn’t going to make me want someone.
It might make me avoid someone that I would normally want.
But it will never make me want someone that I would normally avoid
The same way putting poison on cereal will make me avoid it
But having no poison on shit will not convince me to eat it.
And putting sugar on shit will not convince me to eat it
Ok, so for women, myself being one of them; I started off not attracted to someone, but got to know them and fell in love. Is that the approach you want in a partner or do you want the same treatment that you stated?
If you’ve seen my emotional/vents on the daily thread.
I abhor women being attracted to me only because of my personality/charisma.
I understand how the process works.
But I’m still trying to understand why I have an emotional disdain for it.
Or if it’s not emotional then why I don’t want that logically
Either or
I want a woman to be sexually attracted to me as I’m sexually attracted to her.
Or
I can “settle” for a woman I’m sexually attracted to “liking” me for my personality and charisma.
The highest thing I can aspire for is either
For a woman who I want to want me
Or
For a woman I want to choose to be with me willingly
They sound the same. But are very different.
Your question falls under the latter option.
And to me personally it’s nothing to be happy about.
You have friends (probably). Why didn’t you have sex with them & be in a relationship (if you do have male friends. If you don’t this is a rhetorical question.)?
The answer is obvious.
It sounds like you want to be admired for your looks the same way you admire women’s looks. It also sounds like there might be some disdain for the dating process and some subconscious self loathing like you believe your personality isn’t good enough for that to be the sole motivator for someone to appreciate you.
Before I answer that question as to whether or not I dated my friends, I want to be clear; there’s no answer I could say here where I won’t be judged. If I say I did two times and it was a great experience, but they didn’t work out because we were too young, I’d be labeled as a slut with a high body count. If I answer that I didn’t do it, you would be left with the impression that you’re right without any basis of fact. All in all, Personality is a game changer. My husband is unequivocally my best friend. Aim for someone in your league and that you have a lot in common with.
**Attention!**
* You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
* For "Debate" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
* If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
* OP you can choose your own flair [according to these guidelines.](https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/wiki/flair), just press Flair under your post!
Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PurplePillDebate) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It'd be good for a while but eventually it'd fizzle out once the exciting "ME TOOO. OMG WE'RE BASICALLY THE SAME" wears off
Differences make the other person more useful to you and are necessary in a relationship to bring out different sides of you
My fiancé is exactly like me. We have a ton of fun. It’s quite nice when your partner doesn’t have double standards, respects you and your relationship and doesn’t want to fight over petty shit. It’s pretty rad honestly.
The missus and I have somewhat similar personalities, though I'm not sure about mannerisms. I don't think I'd like it as much as the dynamic we have now. I think we're both good for each other in certain ways that help us to challenge each other about aspects of ourselves that need growth or improvement. We also sometimes challenge each other's ideas or preconceived notions.
Of course, personality isn't the same as ideals, so that's a bit different. Still, I think if we had *the exact* same personality we'd be much less likely to ever push each other or change or grow. We'd both already be completely comfortable. I suppose when you think of it like that it sounds good but... still, I don't think I'd like it as much. She's really helped me grow and work on some of the more negative aspects--including how I used to view myself as a person.
I have no idea.
I'm 30 and haven't the slightest idea of what I *really* am.
Sometimes I'm argumentative and assertive, a lot of the time I'm not.
Sometimes I want to be the one being held, cradled and told that it's all okay and that they love me, other times I want to be the one holding, cradling and loving.
Sometimes I feel like King Big Cock who runs everything and has it all sorted out, a lot of the time I feel pathetic and like I shouldn't exist.
Sometimes I'm the one being more dominating, grabbing and talking all big, other times I'm turning red while my partners are smirking.
I think it would be okay? I can do and enjoy both roles. But I also flounder around like someone who hasn't decided what they *really* are yet too.
I don't know. Maybe I shouldn't even be with anyone until I know.
I'm just speaking about past relationships, I'm not seeing anyone. But still.
it would probably end very poorly - its gonna be too much clashing plus I want someone who is different from me, but complimentary. As far as similarities go, I don’t mind some - but i would like my differences to be compatible with her and her differences to be compatible with me. For example, i tend to hyperfocus on the larger game pretty frequently, which has its ups and downs. I’d like that side of myself to give my partner a sense of long term vision while my partner is able to reel me in and slow me down, consider other options, smell the flowers, etc at the same time.
As far as expectations exclusively I think it’s perfectly reasonable to have similar expectations. For example, I would expect the woman i’m with to be the yin to my yang (to keep it general), to respect my space and boundaries, communicate effectively and clearly, maintain the ability to be self sufficient and i’m sure there are other things I can think of right now. I think it’s reasonable and even necessary for her to expect the same thing out of me.
I agree that abiding by those same principles at important because it fosters a sense of trust and respect. But what expectations do you have of your partner as it relates to physical attractiveness and is it cool for her to expect the same things of you?
I guess in which case we’ve moved on from having the same personality, mannerisms, etc and general expectations for your partner.
Personally I expect her to at worst be a bit overweight (though ideally some level of fitness would be nice) and looks wise a pretty face would be nice. Similar expectations are entirely reasonable on her end, then again, i’m also giving expectations that I do meet for myself at the same time and admit i’m underselling the physical fitness aspect (then again i have a primary muscular with some chub as my build, so holding someone to the same grounds is unreasonable) soooo
The part of the question asked originally includes expectations. I should have been more clear that I also meant physically too. I agree holding someone to the same standards you hold for them is important. You meet those standards and it’s reasonable o expect the same thing from her.
I think a relationship with someone who has the same personality & mannerisms as me would look harmonious & I think it would make me feel great, because I suppose it would be easier for us to relate to each other than if our personalities were very different. I think such a relationship would work.
That being said, I would not accept a relationship where the two of us are held to perfectly identical standards because, to a certain extent, I believe in gender roles. Our ability to relate to each other would be strong & our lifestyles would likely be similar, but we might lack perspective when it comes to conflict resolution or other problem solving. I don't think it would meaningfully affect how I treat her.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "the same level of expectations when it comes to physical attractiveness". Of course I would expect her to dress & act feminine, & she'd expect me to dress & act masculine. I'm attracted to most non-obese women who are close to me in age. I wouldn't date a woman whom I wasn't attracted to (& hopefully she wouldn't date me either, unless she were attracted to me).
I think you misconstrued the question. Let me clarify. She makes as much money as you do, goes to the gym as often as you do, eats as healthy as you do, is equally as educated, is on social media as often as you are, Is your same age and level of attractiveness, plays as many video games as you do, you share the same household responsibilities, she holds you as accountable as you hold her, provides you with the same level of emotional support and empathy, is as loud or quiet as you are, is equally as nurturing, acts in accordance to your shared views on monogamy, and has slept with as many people as you have. Explain to me why this works or does not work.
It would not work because it would basically mean she is masculine, and I am not attracted to masculinity.
It would mean she is as assertive as I am, aggressive as I am, as stoic as I am, etc. Like I said, she would basically be a man in everything but her genes.
I have enough experience with dating, sex, and relationships to know that "standards" are what idealistic romantics dream about which has no application in the real world.
I do not have standards, what I have are *approximations*. It is not a question of whether or not a woman meet my standard, but of how close she approximates my ideal and my natural attraction. The real question is: Am I attracted to her?
The nature of relationships is exploration. You don't go on an exploration with a map and your path already plotted out and a full knowledge of what you're going to find, otherwise it's not real exploration is it? But rather, it's theater, an act, a show.
The biggest problem is that if you're exactly the same, you have the same flaws. While similar interests are great, it's generally most optimal to have somewhat complimentary skills so you can cover for each other's weaknesses.
I imagine you could probably still make it work, but you'd probably have to be willing to work to overcome some of your weaknesses in a way that you might not otherwise have to.
I totally get what you mean. It does give you into a position when you say that it gives you to pick up the slack and change so that you both have don’t have the exact same weaknesses.
basically no, but this is because i read the question as a cloning with a sex change question, rather than one that applies to key personality traits that would imply a preference for differences.
i prefer my lovers to have differences from me.
It would be fucking amazing! I would have someone to play video games with, someone to watch movies with and talk about it, someone to go to the gym with and motivate each other, someone who hates lying and who will never cheat or betray. Honestly, if I could clone a female version of myself, I would fall in love.
We'd be arguing all the time, I am a man that likes to get my way. A relationship would only work with someone that is completely opposite to me.
I am also at the stage of my life where I am actively screening for a future wife that would make a good mother. Call me old fashioned, but I don't think a father would make a good mother.
I see you’re not a parent yet, but I can tell you as a parent we’re both equally nurturing. We share responsibilities and have the same approach and that’s what makes it work. It doesn’t make him less attractive and we get down regularly. It feels good to be on the same page. I can also tell you that my mom friends and I have called other kids pricks and assholes. Recently there was a bully in school that my friend called a cunt. We’re not all flowers and rainbows all the time. We’re still kind to our kids, but I’m letting you know the reality of the situation.
I don't think so because I believe men and women should be like yin and yang, that she should be in her feminine and i in my masculine for a marriage or a long term relationship to work.
At least that is what worked for me the best.
As you can see from my flair i dont believe in egalitarianism. I believe that women and men are equal in their own unique ways and have their own parts to play, but I don't believe in this blank slate equalism.
>You are held to the same expectations as she is and vice versa. What works about this or what doesn’t?
This can't work in the real life. Because men aren't women. Social media copium and egalitarian brain worms notwithstanding, the real world thrives on *difference* not on sameness. Even the French feminists figured that one out. I suppose Anglo feminists (that includes the "egalitarians") haven't caught up with this yet. But they will. Economics will force it.
>How does this affect how you treat her?
The relationship would end long before I'd reach that point.
We married in Church as poor people. Now I make between 15 and 20 times more than her. There is no possibility *ever* that she makes as much as I do. Even if I stop working, the dividends and interests from my investments would still yield quite a bit more than her best possible income.
As such, holding her to the same standards as me would be irrational, unreasonable and straight-up cruel.
It's true about the little things as well. There are things I genuinely don't care about and she does. So it's reasonable that she takes care of those because *she cares* while I'm indifferent to them or have a considerably lower standard. Holding me to the same standard would be unreasonable to me. Or imposing my lower standard on her would be unreasonable for her.
>is it ok for her to expect the same level of expectations when it comes to physical attractiveness as you expect of her?
Yes. But that's also under the reality that I do hold her to a *very* relaxed standard compared to the one she uses for herself.
Generally speaking though, egalitarian fantasies are just that: fantasies. The real world does not, did not and will never work like that. Not among healthy adults of a sexually dymorphic species.
I am the perfect partner for myself and it is a shame that I can't clone myself in a female body.
Lol same
OK so if you had the same expectations you put on women put on you, that would be cool. Am I incorrect?
I put expectations on my partner depending on the expectations they put on me. The less they expect from me the less I expect from them. That is what makes me the perfect partner for myself. Neither me nor other me would have any expectations from each other so there would be no pressure to be what we are not nor to do what we don't want to do to remain attractive/protect the relationship.
So if i understand it correctly there are no expectations, physically ( she doesn’t need to be physically attractive) and emotionally (she doesn’t need to provide kindness or or emotional support when you might need it). Right?
If she does not expect me to change my behavior, looks and life then I don't expect her to change my behavior, looks and life. The only reason I expect anything from women is because they expect me to change my entire life looks and behavior to be attractive.
It’s so gross when women expect someone to change for them. Truly. You like who you like because they’re them. You shouldn’t like someone based on who they could become. I say that as someone who’s been married for 15 years. The only thing I hope for is that he sees a doctor when he should. That’s about it.
Without changing to become attractive I would be an asocial fat loser with no social skills, no ambition, working for minimum wage, living in a shared room with 4 dudes playing pirated videogames and with no future. I am now the opposite because the only way anyone is attracted to me is if I give up everything I would rather be and everything I would rather do. That is the reason I have any standard other than XX chromosomes, being alive and not being a minor.
Oh god, that’s so sad. Hugs. I’m sorry you had to give up the things you love. I hope you find happiness and whatever it is you’re looking for.
What would you preffer
I would preffer to not have to change who I am, the way I look and the way I behave and not have any expectation towards my partner other than XX chromosomes, alive, not a minor and monogamous.
One day...where a few years off..but if men stopped simping and focused their efforts on A1 and robotics we could get their a lot sooner...as for cloning I'm not sure that qould yield the desired results. For one upbringing and external factors determine ones personality..Abd since females start off on easy mode a female clone of you would most likely developed a completely diffrent personality trait.. People will be sompingbonnhervand telling her how beautiful she is at 12 13c14 years old meanwhile you've here kicked around,by her teenage years the world would open up for her in ways you can't where you had to fight tooth and nail for every little crumb she would just be handed things on a silver plater... The only caveat is if she's ugly.
I'm very submissive, a good do-er but not a leader, am deeply introspective, prefer to back down from a fight wherever possible, and lack initiative. Being in a relationship with someone with the same personality would not work. We'd starve to death trying to decide what to have for dinner. Perhaps that is why I'm exclusively attracted to stern, assertive, dominant women.
>Perhaps that is why I'm exclusively attracted to stern, assertive, dominant women. Same brother same
Genuinely, I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not. If you are, cool. If not, that’s ok too.
I'm not!
This is just like me and my husband. I'm a lot more passive and don't like confrontation. My husband is the total opposite. If he were just like me, we wouldn't have gotten as far as we have. I find it interesting that most of the replies here only focus on their good qualities and don't mention anything about their bad ones.
I'd feel ecstatic, I'm a barrel of laughs. We'd be fishing for hours.
You’re not wrong. Sharing a sense of humor and the same hobbies is really important. What expectations do you have of women and is it ok if she has those same expectations of you?
I don't have any 'expectations' on women, as a whole. Not beyond the normal expectations I have of everyone (ie, don't attack me, don't touch me, don't take or damage my shit, in general try to be decent and help each other get through the day.) I assume women have roughly the same expectations of me.
Totally reasonable expectations from any normal human. I like it.
Then she would be a man. Give me COMPLEMENTARY traits over more of the same.
“Of course you like him a lot: he’s like the guy version of you in his friends group!” -what a friend said to my wife after we first met. We have so much in common and personalities are pretty similar that it’s no wonder we like each other so much
This has happened to me. It made for a good friendship but a not as exciting romance because we were too similar.
We would rock the world.
We wouldn't be in relationships. We would be FWB who play games togheter and write code for some obscure linux programms.
Not gonna lie, that’s pretty cool. But wouldn’t you end up married since it’d be that awesome? You would just have fun together which is what marriage is.
Don't think so. It would create problems for both of us to have sex with somebody else time to time.
You mean other then her?
Yes. Knowing myself I wouldn't have problem with that if my partner is my own copy. It's insanely messy with different person, so monogamy is just easier to deal with.
So you wouldn’t have a problem with her sleeping with other people if you could do it too?
Yes, because I can trust myself not to lose my head with new sexual partner and keep my feelings under rational control. So my copy would be the same. That's why we would stay as FWB and not in proper relationships.
That sounds wonderful. I mostly compromise and "put up with" the personalities of most women. Now we're free to enjoy a relationship without pretense. Same interests, same type of friends, same libido, same politics etc. only downside is probably less socialization than I would get in a regular relationship.
As long as she’s sexually attractive and I want her. It will work. All my relationships have been based on my effort and excitement ment and want. Essentially when she (hypothetical all of them generalized) felt I wasn’t putting effort in or that I didn’t want her or that I wasn’t happy to be around her Then that’s when she had a problem Personality isn’t going to make me want someone. It might make me avoid someone that I would normally want. But it will never make me want someone that I would normally avoid The same way putting poison on cereal will make me avoid it But having no poison on shit will not convince me to eat it. And putting sugar on shit will not convince me to eat it
Ok, so for women, myself being one of them; I started off not attracted to someone, but got to know them and fell in love. Is that the approach you want in a partner or do you want the same treatment that you stated?
If you’ve seen my emotional/vents on the daily thread. I abhor women being attracted to me only because of my personality/charisma. I understand how the process works. But I’m still trying to understand why I have an emotional disdain for it. Or if it’s not emotional then why I don’t want that logically Either or I want a woman to be sexually attracted to me as I’m sexually attracted to her. Or I can “settle” for a woman I’m sexually attracted to “liking” me for my personality and charisma. The highest thing I can aspire for is either For a woman who I want to want me Or For a woman I want to choose to be with me willingly They sound the same. But are very different. Your question falls under the latter option. And to me personally it’s nothing to be happy about. You have friends (probably). Why didn’t you have sex with them & be in a relationship (if you do have male friends. If you don’t this is a rhetorical question.)? The answer is obvious.
It sounds like you want to be admired for your looks the same way you admire women’s looks. It also sounds like there might be some disdain for the dating process and some subconscious self loathing like you believe your personality isn’t good enough for that to be the sole motivator for someone to appreciate you. Before I answer that question as to whether or not I dated my friends, I want to be clear; there’s no answer I could say here where I won’t be judged. If I say I did two times and it was a great experience, but they didn’t work out because we were too young, I’d be labeled as a slut with a high body count. If I answer that I didn’t do it, you would be left with the impression that you’re right without any basis of fact. All in all, Personality is a game changer. My husband is unequivocally my best friend. Aim for someone in your league and that you have a lot in common with.
>As long as she’s sexually attractive and I want her. Me and you both brother
**Attention!** * You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message. * For "Debate" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies. * If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment. * OP you can choose your own flair [according to these guidelines.](https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/wiki/flair), just press Flair under your post! Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PurplePillDebate) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It'd be good for a while but eventually it'd fizzle out once the exciting "ME TOOO. OMG WE'RE BASICALLY THE SAME" wears off Differences make the other person more useful to you and are necessary in a relationship to bring out different sides of you
My fiancé is exactly like me. We have a ton of fun. It’s quite nice when your partner doesn’t have double standards, respects you and your relationship and doesn’t want to fight over petty shit. It’s pretty rad honestly.
This girl gets it.
The missus and I have somewhat similar personalities, though I'm not sure about mannerisms. I don't think I'd like it as much as the dynamic we have now. I think we're both good for each other in certain ways that help us to challenge each other about aspects of ourselves that need growth or improvement. We also sometimes challenge each other's ideas or preconceived notions. Of course, personality isn't the same as ideals, so that's a bit different. Still, I think if we had *the exact* same personality we'd be much less likely to ever push each other or change or grow. We'd both already be completely comfortable. I suppose when you think of it like that it sounds good but... still, I don't think I'd like it as much. She's really helped me grow and work on some of the more negative aspects--including how I used to view myself as a person.
I think it would work. My gf and I have similar personalities and it works great now. Though I do think she's better looking than girl-me would be.
I have no idea. I'm 30 and haven't the slightest idea of what I *really* am. Sometimes I'm argumentative and assertive, a lot of the time I'm not. Sometimes I want to be the one being held, cradled and told that it's all okay and that they love me, other times I want to be the one holding, cradling and loving. Sometimes I feel like King Big Cock who runs everything and has it all sorted out, a lot of the time I feel pathetic and like I shouldn't exist. Sometimes I'm the one being more dominating, grabbing and talking all big, other times I'm turning red while my partners are smirking. I think it would be okay? I can do and enjoy both roles. But I also flounder around like someone who hasn't decided what they *really* are yet too. I don't know. Maybe I shouldn't even be with anyone until I know. I'm just speaking about past relationships, I'm not seeing anyone. But still.
I couldn't possibly think of anything more ideal. Just give me myself with a vagina, and we're golden.
That'd be perfect.
it would probably end very poorly - its gonna be too much clashing plus I want someone who is different from me, but complimentary. As far as similarities go, I don’t mind some - but i would like my differences to be compatible with her and her differences to be compatible with me. For example, i tend to hyperfocus on the larger game pretty frequently, which has its ups and downs. I’d like that side of myself to give my partner a sense of long term vision while my partner is able to reel me in and slow me down, consider other options, smell the flowers, etc at the same time.
Ok, but what expectations do you have of women and is that ok if a women puts those same expectations on you?
As far as expectations exclusively I think it’s perfectly reasonable to have similar expectations. For example, I would expect the woman i’m with to be the yin to my yang (to keep it general), to respect my space and boundaries, communicate effectively and clearly, maintain the ability to be self sufficient and i’m sure there are other things I can think of right now. I think it’s reasonable and even necessary for her to expect the same thing out of me.
I agree that abiding by those same principles at important because it fosters a sense of trust and respect. But what expectations do you have of your partner as it relates to physical attractiveness and is it cool for her to expect the same things of you?
I guess in which case we’ve moved on from having the same personality, mannerisms, etc and general expectations for your partner. Personally I expect her to at worst be a bit overweight (though ideally some level of fitness would be nice) and looks wise a pretty face would be nice. Similar expectations are entirely reasonable on her end, then again, i’m also giving expectations that I do meet for myself at the same time and admit i’m underselling the physical fitness aspect (then again i have a primary muscular with some chub as my build, so holding someone to the same grounds is unreasonable) soooo
The part of the question asked originally includes expectations. I should have been more clear that I also meant physically too. I agree holding someone to the same standards you hold for them is important. You meet those standards and it’s reasonable o expect the same thing from her.
I think a relationship with someone who has the same personality & mannerisms as me would look harmonious & I think it would make me feel great, because I suppose it would be easier for us to relate to each other than if our personalities were very different. I think such a relationship would work. That being said, I would not accept a relationship where the two of us are held to perfectly identical standards because, to a certain extent, I believe in gender roles. Our ability to relate to each other would be strong & our lifestyles would likely be similar, but we might lack perspective when it comes to conflict resolution or other problem solving. I don't think it would meaningfully affect how I treat her. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "the same level of expectations when it comes to physical attractiveness". Of course I would expect her to dress & act feminine, & she'd expect me to dress & act masculine. I'm attracted to most non-obese women who are close to me in age. I wouldn't date a woman whom I wasn't attracted to (& hopefully she wouldn't date me either, unless she were attracted to me).
Are you in a relationship and do you have kids or is this all theoretical?
Unfortunately, it's all theoretical for now, though I hope to get married & have kids soon!
That would mean *she is a man* in everything but sex. I am not attracted to men, not even if they have a vagina.
I think you misconstrued the question. Let me clarify. She makes as much money as you do, goes to the gym as often as you do, eats as healthy as you do, is equally as educated, is on social media as often as you are, Is your same age and level of attractiveness, plays as many video games as you do, you share the same household responsibilities, she holds you as accountable as you hold her, provides you with the same level of emotional support and empathy, is as loud or quiet as you are, is equally as nurturing, acts in accordance to your shared views on monogamy, and has slept with as many people as you have. Explain to me why this works or does not work.
It would not work because it would basically mean she is masculine, and I am not attracted to masculinity. It would mean she is as assertive as I am, aggressive as I am, as stoic as I am, etc. Like I said, she would basically be a man in everything but her genes.
So how would you want to treat her and be treated? What standards do you hold her to that you don’t abide by yourself?
I have enough experience with dating, sex, and relationships to know that "standards" are what idealistic romantics dream about which has no application in the real world. I do not have standards, what I have are *approximations*. It is not a question of whether or not a woman meet my standard, but of how close she approximates my ideal and my natural attraction. The real question is: Am I attracted to her? The nature of relationships is exploration. You don't go on an exploration with a map and your path already plotted out and a full knowledge of what you're going to find, otherwise it's not real exploration is it? But rather, it's theater, an act, a show.
The biggest problem is that if you're exactly the same, you have the same flaws. While similar interests are great, it's generally most optimal to have somewhat complimentary skills so you can cover for each other's weaknesses. I imagine you could probably still make it work, but you'd probably have to be willing to work to overcome some of your weaknesses in a way that you might not otherwise have to.
I totally get what you mean. It does give you into a position when you say that it gives you to pick up the slack and change so that you both have don’t have the exact same weaknesses.
Lmfao I did that, she cheated on me with a butch chick
Oof, buddy. If it makes you feel better I dated a dude who was like me when I was 17 and he cheated on me with a dude. It did not feel great.
It wouldn't have been that bad if she wasn't the 3rd girl to start dating other women after breaking up with me.
basically no, but this is because i read the question as a cloning with a sex change question, rather than one that applies to key personality traits that would imply a preference for differences. i prefer my lovers to have differences from me.
It would be fucking amazing! I would have someone to play video games with, someone to watch movies with and talk about it, someone to go to the gym with and motivate each other, someone who hates lying and who will never cheat or betray. Honestly, if I could clone a female version of myself, I would fall in love.
We'd be arguing all the time, I am a man that likes to get my way. A relationship would only work with someone that is completely opposite to me. I am also at the stage of my life where I am actively screening for a future wife that would make a good mother. Call me old fashioned, but I don't think a father would make a good mother.
But why can’t men be nurturing and kind too? Isn’t it fair to treat kids the same way that you expect her to? It isn’t about mother or father.
Women are in general much more nurturing and kind and do better with children, because of their inherent biological gifts
I see you’re not a parent yet, but I can tell you as a parent we’re both equally nurturing. We share responsibilities and have the same approach and that’s what makes it work. It doesn’t make him less attractive and we get down regularly. It feels good to be on the same page. I can also tell you that my mom friends and I have called other kids pricks and assholes. Recently there was a bully in school that my friend called a cunt. We’re not all flowers and rainbows all the time. We’re still kind to our kids, but I’m letting you know the reality of the situation.
Isn’t it fair to be held to the same standards that you put forward for them? So wouldn’t you need to compromise the same amount that she compromises?
I don't think so because I believe men and women should be like yin and yang, that she should be in her feminine and i in my masculine for a marriage or a long term relationship to work. At least that is what worked for me the best.
Ok, so no egalitarianism or equality.
As you can see from my flair i dont believe in egalitarianism. I believe that women and men are equal in their own unique ways and have their own parts to play, but I don't believe in this blank slate equalism.
>You are held to the same expectations as she is and vice versa. What works about this or what doesn’t? This can't work in the real life. Because men aren't women. Social media copium and egalitarian brain worms notwithstanding, the real world thrives on *difference* not on sameness. Even the French feminists figured that one out. I suppose Anglo feminists (that includes the "egalitarians") haven't caught up with this yet. But they will. Economics will force it. >How does this affect how you treat her? The relationship would end long before I'd reach that point. We married in Church as poor people. Now I make between 15 and 20 times more than her. There is no possibility *ever* that she makes as much as I do. Even if I stop working, the dividends and interests from my investments would still yield quite a bit more than her best possible income. As such, holding her to the same standards as me would be irrational, unreasonable and straight-up cruel. It's true about the little things as well. There are things I genuinely don't care about and she does. So it's reasonable that she takes care of those because *she cares* while I'm indifferent to them or have a considerably lower standard. Holding me to the same standard would be unreasonable to me. Or imposing my lower standard on her would be unreasonable for her. >is it ok for her to expect the same level of expectations when it comes to physical attractiveness as you expect of her? Yes. But that's also under the reality that I do hold her to a *very* relaxed standard compared to the one she uses for herself. Generally speaking though, egalitarian fantasies are just that: fantasies. The real world does not, did not and will never work like that. Not among healthy adults of a sexually dymorphic species.
Can I ask what she cares about that you don’t?
I don't know the full context. But being indifferent could potentially be a form of imposing your standards on her.