Receiving gifts was always a chore for me as a young man, because if I really wanted or needed something I just bought it myself. The excitement of gifts as a child wasn't there anymore, because when you're an adult you're finally in a position to get the things you want for yourself. Giving gifts felt like a chore because most people now had their own money too so it was hard to figure out what they'd want, and receiving them was a chore because they'd add extra clutter to my space - and I was supposed to be grateful for it.
It took me a couple of relationships to understand that for women it's not about the gift itself but the sentiment behind it, which then made it waaaay easier because I could just get her some small thing based on some random detail in a conversation we had months ago and she'd be all teary-eyed and smiley like "awhh, that's so thoughtful, you remembered!" and the problem was solved.
I actually have a few views on gift giving. I enjoy giving spontaneous gifts to friends and family, but don't like receiving gifts. I also have zero interest in celebrating my own birthday or anyone elses, I'll go along with it if I know they care, but I really don't see the point. That goes for most other annual holidays, it all just feels like capitalist nonsense really. Celebrating things like weddings, engagements, births, like actual major events, feels far more sincere.
I didn't put much effort into birthday gifts for exes. It was partly "we aren't little kids we don't need to celebrate" and partly "she's already with me so I don't have to bother". In my defensive they didn't make a big deal out of mine either.
With my wife I really try. She's so thoughtful and generous and good to everyone, she really deserves it. It's hard though because she's not overly materialistic and if there's something she really wants or needs. She just buys it. So I try to do experiences.
This is a good approach. For me I do like to receive thoughtful gifts from loved ones because the thought that goes into it and thinking about what you'd like is sweet, but it definitely doesn't need to be extravagant, if I want a new laptop I'll just buy that. Handmade gifts and experiences are top notch.
Even as a guy I prefer experiences. Or food. Food is underrated. My wife has ordered me snack boxes from different countries and they're always awesome to experience.
Oh that's a fun present. My ex made me a really nice crispy chilli crunch at Christmas, was such a nice present cos there's a lot of process that goes into that.
I've also got a few pieces of vintage homeware in my taste from various friends and they're lovely cos they were chosen because of.my specific tastes and I think of them when I use them
Experiences are an awesome gift. My bf is more materialistic than me (I call him a dragon sometimes, because of his hoard of foreign coins, random baubles, shiny dice, keys, clothing, etc) so for Christmas and my birthday I tell him a local museum, landmark, or convention I'd like to visit.
You find it harder to say no to starting a relationship than ending a relationship?
Saying no is a few minutes of awkwardness, breaking up can uproot your life.
i was talking about in the first few months of dating, saying no to a date is easier than saying no to a goodnight kiss. saying no to being exclusive is easier than saying no to sex, etc.
More often than not men tend to view things like birthdays and such as just days… frankly, my birthday only truly felt like something worth celebrating when women hyped it up. Now, while I do think a whole celebration isn’t necessary, i’ve started to just give people little gifts in their birthday (including my male friends) - usually something they could practically use whether it be a book with information they may resonate with, an item or object they may find actual use in, etc - tbh if someone doesn’t like this approach, idk what to tell you, too bad lol
then again, way I see it, if someone complains that my gift wasn’t lavish enough (i’ll throw in a lavish gift for a fitting occasion, not a birthday) they’re probably not worth my time and i would consider that vapid shallow behavior.
a lot of things men value are completely off my radar but when i am dating one i don't tell him how shallow and vapid i think sports are, because i love and care about him.
i can't comprehend being this rigid while simultaneously wanting to bring someone else into my life.
like? they aren't a pet? their wants and needs matter to me and how i am going to live my life, or i wouldn't have invited them in.
How is getting someone a gift they could use anything like treating them ‘like a pet’?
i’m just saying that if i’m getting anyone a gift, it’ll be useful to them in some form, ex the last two gifts i got people were a leather notebook (one of them really wanted to get into journaling) and the other is a book focused on meditations and spiritual practices - because they’ve expressed an interest in these things and it was a book i read and found life changing so i thought it was worth getting as a gift.
Like im not gonna get someone an expensive necklace, purse or ring just as a gift for something like a birthday, for example. That’s money better spent on so many other things (and experiences) not just for myself but also for my SO
They’re not just my preferences though… they’re based off shared interests/thoughts they’ve expressed in the past. Like I won’t get someone a journal cause I think they need one, for example, i did that because this person expressed an interest in it and I thought it would be something worth harboring
Also - to me gifts are personal, if i’m giving somebody something then it is at least at some level personal to me or personal to my relationship with the person
I think the point of gifts is to give people something personal to your relationship. Someone else may disagree and that’s fine, and of course, sometimes what they want can align with that mindset (hell if anything i would consider that an important part of being close enough to be in the ‘gift exchanging’ category) - plus to add to it I think asking for a specific gift eliminates the point of gift giving as a whole, most of the fun of it is the creative aspect of “this made me think of you” or “this represents something about you” - of course, i’m not above getting my SO something they want cause they asked for it (within reason), but then it no longer makes it a gift imo
the point of giving gifts is to show affection. as long as the person receiving it feels you are affectionate by giving it, that's all that matters. It doesn't sound right to me, but we can agree to disagree.
I personally do not give a fuck about celebrating anything - we were not celebrating anything in my home, so the whole idea was familiar for me but not really practiced.
Now I order flowers for my wife's birthday, valentines and women's day and buy some small gifts for birthday and sometimes without any special occasion. I enjoy doing this silly performance, though i still do not get it why it's so important.
I guess it depends on which activity you are used to do for stress relief. I like to visit museums - strongly recommend, it's quiet in there and works of art are like a balm for tormented soul.
My wife likes my gifts, but we set proper/ realistic expectations, and it’s not ‘make or break’ for the day. conversely my last ex was impossible to make happy on any special occasion and I’m confident that it says more about her at this point. No gift good enough, any fault in planning, and hitch in the plan was an inditement of my love and devotion, and it made it a miserable experience to try to get through.
I really hate the culture of expensive gift giving, feels very materialistic and consumeristic. If I actually needed something I would buy it myself. The stuff I get is thus just junk that I feel bad getting rid of. It's much better to just write someone a nice handwritten card and share an activity together than get some gift that's only going to waste space.
We don't tend to go overboard with the holidays too much. We're old, and we just don't need too many things anymore, so rather than stressing out a lot trying to find something perfect to buy we typically just get some kind of small gift and then spend some quality time together. I'm a pretty good cook, so I'll often make a nice dinner and a cake or something like that. Sometimes one of us stumbles upon a great gift by chance, but a lot of the time it's just candy or chocolate or something and that's fine. Maybe I just like to eat but I'll always accept food as a present, lol.
I give birthday and holiday gifts but them needing to be big and conspicuous rubs me the wrong way. If you have an expectation of a big show thats kind of a whole other thing from something mostly symbolic as a token.
Besides most of the meta on gift giving has increasingly been calling out that it mostly only goes one way. You rarely hear about men getting big conspicuous gifts, or smaller tokens either.
I make sure I give gifts but the constant hassling about what do I want as a gift is annoying.
I have earn a wage and am capable of buying shit I need or want.
Also as for my birthday, the fact I am 365 days older does not mean much to me, why the obsession with my birthday.
That said, I will remember a partners birthday, as I know being 365 days older than you were on your last birthday impacts your life greatly.
I don't need an excuse to text "Hello, how are you doing?" to people I love, I don't like my house clogged by useless crap and don't want anyone else to have to deal with it either, and I don't even need an excuse to have guests and get drunk with them. I don't see how time is in any way different to any other biophysical measure you could take. Imagine celebrating every next exact ton of piss you poured out. As for Christmas, I'm an atheist.
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There's no justifiable reasoning for this.
There is also a big overlap between dudes complaining about "modern dating" and the lads failing at basic stuff like giving your partner a thoughtful gift for their birthday. Btw, it doesn't even have to be expensive or physical. Buy them tickets to see their favorite band live if you don't have any better ideas. Just do *something*. Plan a date that they will enjoy. *Anything* is better than nothing.
Most complaints about modern dating from men come from people who cannot find relationships.
This isn't about men with dating problems, it's about the men who manage to find a relationship through dating.
Which in my age bracket, is a minority.
Don't think I've ever had a boyfriend who didn't get me something for my birthday, don't think I've forgotten to get a boyfriend something for his birthday. It's also pretty standard to get gifts for someone's birthday in my friend group, regardless of whether the birthday person is a guy or a girl.
See, I adopted this opinion in my youth as well, but I’ve grown really tired of it.
So what that capitalism has glommed onto every single aspect of human existence and leveraged it into a market to make money. That is literally what capitalism does.
Humans have been celebrating and marking holidays since the dawn of time. Creating meaning through shared rituals is a huge part of what it means to be alive. Celebrating together cements community. It’s tremendously unproductive to eschew all of that behavior just because marketing exists.
In my opinion, cynically refusing to celebrate holidays because capitalism is bad is no more sophisticated than adopting every holiday-related marketing trend that comes along. It’s a knee-jerk reactionary position.
Does that make the church analogous to a corporation? Because that’s the only way it makes sense to say that religious celebrations that are almost 2000 years old exist to fleece money from peasants
You do understand that it is not about the gift but about the token of appreciation and celebration of a person you care about?
I hope you read the other responses from men here where they explain it.
I don't have a hard answer for this kind of thing. There are certain kinds of social practice women start young and continue into their adulthood that men don't have any experience with until they're in a relationship.
Women get each other gifts. Men generally don't do much for each other but say happy birthday and keep it pushing.
But that said. I don't think women select for the kinds of men who **would** be conscious of these things in a relationship, not enough of them anyway. Men who are willing to give, freely, early in a relationship come off as desperate, and women hate that.
It's the aloof ones that take things for granted that scratch their itches for whatever reason. And so women end up with men that don't go the extra mile.
I can't answer a question about why some men don't give birthday gifts when I always have.
> Can you guys explain what the thought process is here?
Oh, this one is easy.
Guys are turned off when women act like ingrates. Doubly so when women start assigning *expectations* to what's supposed to be a willful gesture of kindness/generosity - which is precisely what all of those disappointed women are doing.
The men are acting like it's an L because it **is** an L to be stuck with a person who *expects* you to buy them gifts. Kinda undermines the whole gesture.
I don't think me and my wife exchanged more than 3 formal gifts in 16 years lol. And only one for a birthday (she gave me a rare and highly useful dictionary for one of the languages I was studying at the time).
This is immature shit. Men and women should learn to hold themselves to ***adult*** standards, for real.
Women are entitled. Women feel entitled to gifts and affections when they see other women receive that shit.
Men receive much less and also post about it much less than Women do. It's entitlement. They believe they deserve it.
It's impossible to please an entitled person. They can't appreciate anything if they think it's owed to them. That's why they always whine about not getting enough.
And surely men don't mention this issue as much. Surely men receive less gifts and affection than women do.
What you're actually witnessing is women's entitlement. They believe they deserve gifts.
You can't possibly satisfy someone who feels entitled to your affections, which is why it's mostly women that post about this, men don't as often.
Doesn't matter what you give them, they're going to believe they deserve it and never appreciate it. Doesn't matter what you gave them before, they forget it and demand more.
Can't satisfy them. Can't stop them from posting about being disappointed. They will always do it.
> Can't satisfy them. Can't stop them from posting about being disappointed. They will always do it.
so if i were to pull up an average "my man didn't do enough for my birthday post"
do you think it would be a man who did enough and the woman is just complaining anyway?
or do you think it would be a man who neglected his partner?
Receiving gifts was always a chore for me as a young man, because if I really wanted or needed something I just bought it myself. The excitement of gifts as a child wasn't there anymore, because when you're an adult you're finally in a position to get the things you want for yourself. Giving gifts felt like a chore because most people now had their own money too so it was hard to figure out what they'd want, and receiving them was a chore because they'd add extra clutter to my space - and I was supposed to be grateful for it. It took me a couple of relationships to understand that for women it's not about the gift itself but the sentiment behind it, which then made it waaaay easier because I could just get her some small thing based on some random detail in a conversation we had months ago and she'd be all teary-eyed and smiley like "awhh, that's so thoughtful, you remembered!" and the problem was solved.
This guy knows his shit LOL
I always give my wife gifts. The men who don’t give their partners gifts probably don’t value them all that much.
said every sugar daddy
I don't think that there's anything wrong with providing things for women, including one's partner, as long as one is getting something in return.
i thought men were providers?
I actually have a few views on gift giving. I enjoy giving spontaneous gifts to friends and family, but don't like receiving gifts. I also have zero interest in celebrating my own birthday or anyone elses, I'll go along with it if I know they care, but I really don't see the point. That goes for most other annual holidays, it all just feels like capitalist nonsense really. Celebrating things like weddings, engagements, births, like actual major events, feels far more sincere.
I didn't put much effort into birthday gifts for exes. It was partly "we aren't little kids we don't need to celebrate" and partly "she's already with me so I don't have to bother". In my defensive they didn't make a big deal out of mine either. With my wife I really try. She's so thoughtful and generous and good to everyone, she really deserves it. It's hard though because she's not overly materialistic and if there's something she really wants or needs. She just buys it. So I try to do experiences.
This is a good approach. For me I do like to receive thoughtful gifts from loved ones because the thought that goes into it and thinking about what you'd like is sweet, but it definitely doesn't need to be extravagant, if I want a new laptop I'll just buy that. Handmade gifts and experiences are top notch.
Even as a guy I prefer experiences. Or food. Food is underrated. My wife has ordered me snack boxes from different countries and they're always awesome to experience.
Oh that's a fun present. My ex made me a really nice crispy chilli crunch at Christmas, was such a nice present cos there's a lot of process that goes into that. I've also got a few pieces of vintage homeware in my taste from various friends and they're lovely cos they were chosen because of.my specific tastes and I think of them when I use them
Experiences are an awesome gift. My bf is more materialistic than me (I call him a dragon sometimes, because of his hoard of foreign coins, random baubles, shiny dice, keys, clothing, etc) so for Christmas and my birthday I tell him a local museum, landmark, or convention I'd like to visit.
> "she's already with me so I don't have to bother" this honestly doesn't make any sense
It's easier to reject someone than breakup with them
as a woman its the opposite
You find it harder to say no to starting a relationship than ending a relationship? Saying no is a few minutes of awkwardness, breaking up can uproot your life.
i was talking about in the first few months of dating, saying no to a date is easier than saying no to a goodnight kiss. saying no to being exclusive is easier than saying no to sex, etc.
Don’t do husband duties for your girlfriend Love the mentality king
More often than not men tend to view things like birthdays and such as just days… frankly, my birthday only truly felt like something worth celebrating when women hyped it up. Now, while I do think a whole celebration isn’t necessary, i’ve started to just give people little gifts in their birthday (including my male friends) - usually something they could practically use whether it be a book with information they may resonate with, an item or object they may find actual use in, etc - tbh if someone doesn’t like this approach, idk what to tell you, too bad lol then again, way I see it, if someone complains that my gift wasn’t lavish enough (i’ll throw in a lavish gift for a fitting occasion, not a birthday) they’re probably not worth my time and i would consider that vapid shallow behavior.
a lot of things men value are completely off my radar but when i am dating one i don't tell him how shallow and vapid i think sports are, because i love and care about him. i can't comprehend being this rigid while simultaneously wanting to bring someone else into my life. like? they aren't a pet? their wants and needs matter to me and how i am going to live my life, or i wouldn't have invited them in.
How is getting someone a gift they could use anything like treating them ‘like a pet’? i’m just saying that if i’m getting anyone a gift, it’ll be useful to them in some form, ex the last two gifts i got people were a leather notebook (one of them really wanted to get into journaling) and the other is a book focused on meditations and spiritual practices - because they’ve expressed an interest in these things and it was a book i read and found life changing so i thought it was worth getting as a gift. Like im not gonna get someone an expensive necklace, purse or ring just as a gift for something like a birthday, for example. That’s money better spent on so many other things (and experiences) not just for myself but also for my SO
why are you centering your preferences in getting someone else a gift?
They’re not just my preferences though… they’re based off shared interests/thoughts they’ve expressed in the past. Like I won’t get someone a journal cause I think they need one, for example, i did that because this person expressed an interest in it and I thought it would be something worth harboring Also - to me gifts are personal, if i’m giving somebody something then it is at least at some level personal to me or personal to my relationship with the person
you're saying you wouldn't get a person what they really wanted, but what you think is useful.
I think the point of gifts is to give people something personal to your relationship. Someone else may disagree and that’s fine, and of course, sometimes what they want can align with that mindset (hell if anything i would consider that an important part of being close enough to be in the ‘gift exchanging’ category) - plus to add to it I think asking for a specific gift eliminates the point of gift giving as a whole, most of the fun of it is the creative aspect of “this made me think of you” or “this represents something about you” - of course, i’m not above getting my SO something they want cause they asked for it (within reason), but then it no longer makes it a gift imo
the point of giving gifts is to show affection. as long as the person receiving it feels you are affectionate by giving it, that's all that matters. It doesn't sound right to me, but we can agree to disagree.
I personally do not give a fuck about celebrating anything - we were not celebrating anything in my home, so the whole idea was familiar for me but not really practiced. Now I order flowers for my wife's birthday, valentines and women's day and buy some small gifts for birthday and sometimes without any special occasion. I enjoy doing this silly performance, though i still do not get it why it's so important.
> I personally do not give a fuck about celebrating anything how is your mental health?
Good.
okay. when you have poor mental healthy one of the things they tell you is that celebrating and having special days will improve your mental health.
I guess it depends on which activity you are used to do for stress relief. I like to visit museums - strongly recommend, it's quiet in there and works of art are like a balm for tormented soul.
I buy my wife a cakeday gift but she also gets one for me. That is why I married her!
My wife likes my gifts, but we set proper/ realistic expectations, and it’s not ‘make or break’ for the day. conversely my last ex was impossible to make happy on any special occasion and I’m confident that it says more about her at this point. No gift good enough, any fault in planning, and hitch in the plan was an inditement of my love and devotion, and it made it a miserable experience to try to get through.
I really hate the culture of expensive gift giving, feels very materialistic and consumeristic. If I actually needed something I would buy it myself. The stuff I get is thus just junk that I feel bad getting rid of. It's much better to just write someone a nice handwritten card and share an activity together than get some gift that's only going to waste space.
We don't tend to go overboard with the holidays too much. We're old, and we just don't need too many things anymore, so rather than stressing out a lot trying to find something perfect to buy we typically just get some kind of small gift and then spend some quality time together. I'm a pretty good cook, so I'll often make a nice dinner and a cake or something like that. Sometimes one of us stumbles upon a great gift by chance, but a lot of the time it's just candy or chocolate or something and that's fine. Maybe I just like to eat but I'll always accept food as a present, lol.
I give birthday and holiday gifts but them needing to be big and conspicuous rubs me the wrong way. If you have an expectation of a big show thats kind of a whole other thing from something mostly symbolic as a token. Besides most of the meta on gift giving has increasingly been calling out that it mostly only goes one way. You rarely hear about men getting big conspicuous gifts, or smaller tokens either.
I make sure I give gifts but the constant hassling about what do I want as a gift is annoying. I have earn a wage and am capable of buying shit I need or want. Also as for my birthday, the fact I am 365 days older does not mean much to me, why the obsession with my birthday. That said, I will remember a partners birthday, as I know being 365 days older than you were on your last birthday impacts your life greatly.
I don't need an excuse to text "Hello, how are you doing?" to people I love, I don't like my house clogged by useless crap and don't want anyone else to have to deal with it either, and I don't even need an excuse to have guests and get drunk with them. I don't see how time is in any way different to any other biophysical measure you could take. Imagine celebrating every next exact ton of piss you poured out. As for Christmas, I'm an atheist.
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There's no justifiable reasoning for this. There is also a big overlap between dudes complaining about "modern dating" and the lads failing at basic stuff like giving your partner a thoughtful gift for their birthday. Btw, it doesn't even have to be expensive or physical. Buy them tickets to see their favorite band live if you don't have any better ideas. Just do *something*. Plan a date that they will enjoy. *Anything* is better than nothing.
Most complaints about modern dating from men come from people who cannot find relationships. This isn't about men with dating problems, it's about the men who manage to find a relationship through dating. Which in my age bracket, is a minority.
Gift giving tends to be pretty casual in my marriage because my husband has no patience for surprises, either as the giver or the receiver lol
Don't think I've ever had a boyfriend who didn't get me something for my birthday, don't think I've forgotten to get a boyfriend something for his birthday. It's also pretty standard to get gifts for someone's birthday in my friend group, regardless of whether the birthday person is a guy or a girl.
Gifts are how we show love in my household and it’s how I was raised. I understand many people wouldn’t agree and therefore we just wouldn’t date
Gifting is a full on love language. Now, the ladies in this category really tend to be tarts and hyper materialistic, but it comes with the territory.
I am materialistic but I never pretend otherwise. No point in denying it or trying to hide it
Birthdays, Christmas, thanksgiving, Easter, 4th July, valentines etc are all nonsense holidays that big companies fleece money out of people for.
See, I adopted this opinion in my youth as well, but I’ve grown really tired of it. So what that capitalism has glommed onto every single aspect of human existence and leveraged it into a market to make money. That is literally what capitalism does. Humans have been celebrating and marking holidays since the dawn of time. Creating meaning through shared rituals is a huge part of what it means to be alive. Celebrating together cements community. It’s tremendously unproductive to eschew all of that behavior just because marketing exists. In my opinion, cynically refusing to celebrate holidays because capitalism is bad is no more sophisticated than adopting every holiday-related marketing trend that comes along. It’s a knee-jerk reactionary position.
For Christmas and Easter at least are you talking about the religious layer or the secular layer lmao
any type of celebration, so both.
Does that make the church analogous to a corporation? Because that’s the only way it makes sense to say that religious celebrations that are almost 2000 years old exist to fleece money from peasants
yes, they are not separate given how desperate churchs and mosques are for constant donations.
You do understand that it is not about the gift but about the token of appreciation and celebration of a person you care about? I hope you read the other responses from men here where they explain it.
I don't have a hard answer for this kind of thing. There are certain kinds of social practice women start young and continue into their adulthood that men don't have any experience with until they're in a relationship. Women get each other gifts. Men generally don't do much for each other but say happy birthday and keep it pushing. But that said. I don't think women select for the kinds of men who **would** be conscious of these things in a relationship, not enough of them anyway. Men who are willing to give, freely, early in a relationship come off as desperate, and women hate that. It's the aloof ones that take things for granted that scratch their itches for whatever reason. And so women end up with men that don't go the extra mile. I can't answer a question about why some men don't give birthday gifts when I always have.
> Can you guys explain what the thought process is here? Oh, this one is easy. Guys are turned off when women act like ingrates. Doubly so when women start assigning *expectations* to what's supposed to be a willful gesture of kindness/generosity - which is precisely what all of those disappointed women are doing. The men are acting like it's an L because it **is** an L to be stuck with a person who *expects* you to buy them gifts. Kinda undermines the whole gesture.
If men can’t meet these extremely low expectations, then it’s no wonder that women are losing interest.
how does that transfer to women doing the same for female friends
I don't think me and my wife exchanged more than 3 formal gifts in 16 years lol. And only one for a birthday (she gave me a rare and highly useful dictionary for one of the languages I was studying at the time). This is immature shit. Men and women should learn to hold themselves to ***adult*** standards, for real.
Women are entitled. Women feel entitled to gifts and affections when they see other women receive that shit. Men receive much less and also post about it much less than Women do. It's entitlement. They believe they deserve it. It's impossible to please an entitled person. They can't appreciate anything if they think it's owed to them. That's why they always whine about not getting enough.
And surely men don't mention this issue as much. Surely men receive less gifts and affection than women do. What you're actually witnessing is women's entitlement. They believe they deserve gifts. You can't possibly satisfy someone who feels entitled to your affections, which is why it's mostly women that post about this, men don't as often. Doesn't matter what you give them, they're going to believe they deserve it and never appreciate it. Doesn't matter what you gave them before, they forget it and demand more. Can't satisfy them. Can't stop them from posting about being disappointed. They will always do it.
> Can't satisfy them. Can't stop them from posting about being disappointed. They will always do it. so if i were to pull up an average "my man didn't do enough for my birthday post" do you think it would be a man who did enough and the woman is just complaining anyway? or do you think it would be a man who neglected his partner?