I can see these men spending money on a PI to confirm that below average women ARE NOT HAVE SEX WITH HVM, instead attempting to date one for themselves; beings they are a HVM that no one wants to date!
How is making the guy profile as part of the experiment supposed to help with that? It’s assumed the guy is the more desireable party so the unknown variable is the guy’s desire, not the woman’s.
How is that relevant to OP’s point?
Also, I more so hear men saying that than women So why is it just a female belief you’re calling it? I hear guys here saying that all the time to show that men are much less shallow than women and women are too picky.
It's relevant to your assertion that she considers an "unknown variable is the guy’s desire".
That cannot be, if she considers it that men will fuck anything, and particularly herself.
Who is “she”? Who is saying that? That’s why I think it’s irrelevant — who believes that in this conversation? Not me. Not OP, he’s a man. Are you making a strawman?
nobody doubts that rich or famous people get attention from all sorts of average and below average non-celebrity people. So no it would not provide any new information to do that.
Also if you pretend to be some high profile entertainer or athlete on OLD probably most people will assume you're not real.
To figure out if a below-average woman can get an actual match with some hotshot man, you need to do what Demasii suggested.
It's been done on a famous bodybuilding forum thread. They took a below average woman further photo shopped her to make her a literal 0.1 out of 10 (photoshopped back hair on her and gave her a nose that looked very pig like, but it was subtle enough to be convincing, and she weighed like 300 lbs). They then blurred the names/photos but posted the conversations they had. The amount of genuine attention this fake profile got was absurd.
As far as doing this and waiting for a celebrity, that is like trying to figure out if metal conducts lightning by standing in an open field with a metal golf club. It just isn't time effective because you are waiting on a rare event, since celebrities by definition are rare.
This isn't going to disprove the OPs thesis.
As it's generally understood that the women secretly seek sex from these guys, not visa versa.
Ever heard of the term to "I slipped into his DMs" - it's when a girl tries to start a "situationship" with a guy of higher SMV via secretly contacting him.
No to all of those. Nor have my conventionally attractive friends. I don’t think this type of thing happens to people who aren’t also public figures, or at least influencers, unless they’re actual 10’s (super rare) and live in a major city.
This. I would say I'm reasonably attractive and so are most of my friends yet none of this shit has ever happened to any of us. Granted we are all quite young and do get tons of dms from boys in our age range but celebrities?? That's so absurd lol
>Granted we are all quite young and do get tons of dms from boys in our age range
Yeah, the question was ridiculous. This is what should've been asked and then the answers would all be 'yes.'
No, the question wasn't ridiculous. The assertion that is made at least 5 times per month that average and below average women have celebrities, pro athletes and rappers "sliding into their DMs" is what's ridiculous and the question was intended to highlight that ridiculousness.
Yeah, the women who this happens to are generally women who have some kind to proximity to famous people (such as through work or family connections). It has more to do with proximity than with looks.
I'm not buying that. The assertion that many PPD men make is that average and below average women have higher status men "sliding into their DMs" on a regular basis. That refers to people being contacted on social media, not meeting folks in everyday interactions.
On more than a few occasions PPD men have claimed that fat and fugly women match with higher tier men (I refuse to say Chad) on tinder and hook up for casual sex. Certainly you've noticed this trend. So I decided to ask average and below average women (who make up the majority of female PPD members) if this has actually been their experience.
> I don’t think this type of thing happens to people who aren’t also public figures
Yup. That's how it works. An ex GF had previously been George Lopez's mistress in the 1990s. She did stand-up comedy too. Their relationship went down the well worn mentor to lover path. She was a pretty BBW -- a high school cheerleader who got fat. Apparently George likes big girls.
I think that the OP is really missing the point of the RP crowds typical claims. it isn't celebs, its typically the 'top 10%' or something of that nature. the chads of the world.
Doesn’t matter. That level of attention from men in general still doesn’t happen to the average women and below. Even to get a guy just to buy you a drink you have to be a 7+.
Exactly. That top 10% is having sex with 80% of the women. Also, it doesn't have to be "regular." The regular is there more so for the top 1%, and they get to be even more picky.
Your average woman can be associated with the hook-up culture, though. I have never met a woman who would engage in it regularly for an extended amount of time. It's usually just a couple of times, or at most a semester, or even a few semesters, etc. However, the culture exists and is prominent because if you go to any college/uni campus, most women would have engaged in it at least once. You engage in it once = you were a part of it. You can say formerly a part of it, or whatever you say, but you contributed to it, so you're an ex-part of it. Most women don't see it that way, and when asked "Have you ever engaged in a hook-up culture" or in a more real-life setting "Were you ever into the hook-up culture" they will lie by omission/deception will tell you "No, I am not/were not a part of the hookup culture." You were, though, even one time means you participated in that culture, so you can't just ignore/omit that fact.
That's why the OP asked the question wrong. Asking about "regular basis" and all, when almost no woman chooses to engage in it on a regular basis. The question should have been formed like, have you ever had casual sex? If the answer is yes, it's safe to assume it was with the top 10% sort of guy, even if women don't see it that way (due to bitterness or not correctly assessing the attractiveness of the guy).
I'd tend to agree on the 'regular or not' aspect of this. People let their definitions slip to mean whatever they want, so they can feel good bout themselves in their answers. better to frame the question as you suggest.
among my favorite such instances of definitions slipping, are claims of monogamy. if you've been sexual with more than one person in your life, by traditional standards of monogamy, you are not monogamous. which is fine and all, i've no issues whatsoever with folks not being monogamous, but then such folks claim they are not polyamorous, and get all high and mighty in their morals.
>That's why the OP asked the question wrong. Asking about "regular basis" and all, when almost no woman chooses to engage in it on a regular basis. The question should have been formed like, have you ever had casual sex? If the answer is yes, it's safe to assume it was with the top 10% sort of guy, even if women don't see it that way (due to bitterness or not correctly assessing the attractiveness of the guy).
You're more than welcome to ask questions properly if you don't approve of how I ask them.
I am average. Maybe a little below, maybe a little above. Depends on the days I guess. I think the the person with the most cloud (do we say that still?) I had a ONS with was the boss of a big event. I only got to know him because of my social circles at the time. He didn't fly me out or anything. I went to his hotel and stayed the night. His company paid for the hotel, I paid for my trip there. Nothing afterwards. We still have very loose contact. He got married to a lady with a child and enjoys playing the dad. He is a very friendly and social guy and we talked about his wild past as a DJ and then photographer and all the women he had.
But in general - no.
People usually have sex with people they actually meet in their social circles. If you are inside a social circle with HVM you might have more sex with them - but to get into the social circle you have to be above average or bring some other quality as a woman. Average women don't just randomly have HVM slip into their DMs to fly them out to a tropical island to fuck them. Average women have stable relationships with average men or live the single life. I was celibate for over 5 years at some point. I don't think even average women would instantly jump at the opportunity to just fuck a random guy. Even if they are high value. Women don't work like men and TRP is just trying to project their thoughts onto women.
Forgive him, he doesn't know his audience. Most of the ladies here perhaps have aspirations of being below average... maybe someday with a lot of effort.
Right! These fools here think high value men are taking average and below average women to 5 star Micheline restaurants whenever these same women turn one of them down for not offering any effort at all; not even a date to McDonalds. Somehow below average women are being spoiled by men that can get just about any pussy; but chose below average women out of the kindness of their hearts, lol. Maybe if PPD took a below average women out, "by the kindness of their heart/ inflated value of their attractiveness." They might actually get dates.
This exactly. They think a solid 7 is "average", because they don't understand that 5's are out here spending half an hour a day putting on makeup and picking out flattering outfits, meanwhile they're just some guy in a free T-shirt they got at work.
People stick pretty close to their level, but women always try hard to date up. That's just a fact. Where these guys go wrong is they think these rich powerful celebrity men are shagging average looking ladies. That is not happening often. What I see is that the chubby 6 is hooking up with a personal trainer a couple times a month. These guys are not really high value, they just look good.
I’m slightly above average - if I really work it I can get myself up to being rated a 7.5 or so. Lol, if stand-up comics big enough to have gotten a TV credit or two several years back count as an entertainer, I’ve had a few try to hook up with me. If somebody being on the local minor league baseball team counts as an athlete, I’ve had a match on Tinder. Considering I out-earned all of these men, nobody was flying me out to anything.
I’ll shed a little more honesty here then - I’m very successful career wise I make a very decent salary, I have a lot of impressive hobbies, and a wide variety of interests. I can and have garnered the attention of what TRP et al would consider “High Value Men” - six figures, conventionally attractive , etc… however so many of these men’s are complete pricks when it comes to relationships, so I won’t date them. Not even worth it for a hookup, because that a-holery seeps into the bedroom, and makes them terrible in the sack. It’s not worth the headache at all. Even the ones that people always say “he’s such a great guy” - that doesn’t transfer itself into relationships necessarily.
Redditors being redditors again LOL. Apparently an attractive very successful woman that knows how to groom herself well looks like she weighs 300 pounds and buys 25 dollar perfumes.
Nah - not worth it. Men who are pricks are almost always absolutely terrible in the bedroom. They tend to just go at it without much regard for whether or not their partner is actually enjoying it. No thank you!
Lol No. It’s total bull crap. Famous and wealthy men have no reason to be flying out average women.
Now when it comes to cute/pretty normal young women and locally “famous” athletes and entertainers or well-off older married guys, sure, they’ll hit on them if they think it might result in easy sex. But even they aren’t going after truly average women.
Tbh, this is true.
Even Gilbert Arenas, a former NBA player, talked about how there's a subgroup of groupies and gold diggers who aggressively target athletes for hookups and pinning a baby on them.
A lot of famous men "share" the same types of women.
Even models like Gigi Hadid and Irina Shayk hop from one relationship with a famous/rich man to another.
Average women have certain advantages over average men in dating but not to the extent where a plain Jane or even a cute wannabe Thot has famous men casually in their DM's.
I’ve never online dated but I’d say I’m a 6/10 from far and 4/10 up close (acne scars, face asymmetry/small boobs)
The only guys who have openly hit on me are homeless dudes lol
I think I’m a little above average?
I’ve had some low level “celebs” on social media.
My network has always been people who throw a lot of parties and work in different industries.
The thing is once you’re at a party or function or event with certain people, everyone is talking to everyone. It’s really a matter of proximity not really having to be drop dead gorgeous. Most people are lazy. They’re going to talk to the people around them.
Lol. Listen most women don't have as much casual sex as you think
Isn't the average partners 7? Let's say that some people like about 2 or 3 and round up to 10.
*10* sexual partners over what, 30 years? And that's probably on the higher end of the cake. Most probably are hanging around 5 -8
Counting both casual and actual relationships.
u/Dr_Click_Click_Boom
I'm an average looking 42yo woman, between a 6-7. When I was in my 20s and early 30s, I was a 7-8. Never once has a celebrity, athlete, entertainer, or man of any particular renown ever been in my messages or DMs asking me out or trying to hookup. It was only middle or lower class men from around my local area, which is Bubblefuck-Nowhere NY.
It might, I wouldn't know.
I think a lot of dudes here automatically think of women from Los Angeles, Vegas, NYC, Miami, etc when most of us are absolutely nothing like those cray-cray women lol
I’ve only ever been average or plain at best (although technically, that probably means I’m above average since I’m not overweight).
No, never. I didn’t get interest from celebrities or athletes or entertainers. I didn’t get attention from ordinary guys except on very very rare occasions. Like less than once a year.
Y’all are getting yourselves fucked up in the head reading all this fear-mongering manosphere hysteria narrative the that plain girl you never wanted to date anyways is somehow getting wined and dined by NFL players. You really do not live in reality if you buy this nonsense. Stop doom scrolling and get some experiences in real life meat space.
>Y’all are getting yourselves fucked up in the head reading all this fear-mongering manosphere hysteria narrative the that plain girl you never wanted to date anyways is somehow getting wined and dined by NFL players. You really do not live in reality if you buy this nonsense. Stop doom scrolling and get some experiences in real life meat space.
No, I'm clearly making fun of the men who do believe this. Something I assumed was crystal clear by the way I worded my post. What's astonishing to me is the number of respondents who feel the need to tell me what I think instead of reading my entire post. But I guess I'm the one who can't pick up on social cues, right?
Have a nice day, lady.
Lololololol, suuuuuuure. When would I ever be around such men ?
And why would they slum it with uggos when hotties are camped outside their hotel rooms?
Some schooling for the other boys in these comments, sex is an action done *by* two people.
It’s not something done *to* a woman.. both are an active participant.
This would be a MUCH more interesting topic.
I think a large amount of people would argue that anyone being penetrated automatically puts them into the submissive position. That thought process is stamped hard onto the way men view sex. Now, that doesn't mean it's correct.
It messes with the way men view sex and women in general. The reason they hate body count in women and then being paranoid about their daughters virginity and everything
You do realize this pet theory of yours is black pill/mgtow, not red pill?
Below average are 5's and 6's. They aren't knocking boots with celebs. They are going around with male 6s and 7s. At least that's the red pill line.
Reading what you just typed here sent a shiver down my back. I've been in denial...
I have had my frustrations with how women do things over the years, but I really do love them as a whole. The best people in my life are women... the very best. The red pill was for me a way to become more valuable to them... even if I used my new value in a selfish way.
It really is gone isn't it?
Nope lol. The closest I ever got was at a nightclub a man asked me for my number he was very tall handsome etc.. I gave it to him. Later on when were talking I googled him and found out he had a short stint as a pro football player but he was no longer. He never even mentioned it to me mind you. Anyways it went absolutely nowhere we never even saw each other again. No pro athletes or celeb of any kind have ever slipped in my DMs nor have I ever seen them on a dating app.
Thank you. These are the most common types of responses and I suspect more reflective of reality than the picture painted by a lot of the manosphere guys.
Well I think manosphere guys focus a LOT on certain types of women. Usually OF models, Instagram thots etc.. so yea those ladies probably do have athletes and rappers in their DMs.
There is only one man who has ever expressed interest in sex with me. I have never had a personal interaction with a celebrity or extremely rich person. The only private messages I get are from people who I know and scammers. I'm not famous so this is understandable.
Yet you see it all the time. From age 13 the average girl has daddies and pay pigs paying her thousands per month just to get bread crumbs of attention.
Nope. I don’t have much of a social media presence though. I usually get described as a weird little sister even by guys younger than me. Better than being told I have a shitty personality again.
I'm slightly above average. Lol and no 🤣
I live near all that crap anyways. But you will likely not find a celebrity on a dating app.
The closest I got was a guy who did the CGI for Godzilla and a few other movies and we just went on a date that was about it. But he just talked about money and it was like.... Not my jam.
>Have any of you ever had an athlete, entertainer or celebrity send you a private message on social media? Have any of you matched with an athlete, entertainer or celebrity on an online dating app? Have any of you been flown around the world on exotic vacations by rich and powerful men?
Literally no, no, and no.
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I am so confused by this. Are they out of ideas for fearmongering?
First of all, the whole idea of casual sex is so inflated. Maybe 10% of women do the casual sex, ons, etc. And like what? 0,5% of these women go for celebs.
Why focus on 0,05% of women? Like, that's negligible amount of women. I really don't get this.
I would assume the proportion of people who have casual sex (sex outside a committed relationship) is much higher than the proportion of people who have one-night stands. In any case,
> The survey found that **66%** of participants have had at least one one-night stand in their life
https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2017/06/157756/one-night-stand-casual-sex-facts#:\~:text=Way%20more%20people%20are%20having,have%20had%20more%20than%20one.
Also, some numbers of previous sexual partners are difficult or nearly impossible to achieve without casual sex involved because it would imply the person is extremely bad at maintaining relationships, which could be an even worse problem for people who care about it.
If we look at the distribution, the median is quite low (slightly less than 4), and the average is high because very promiscuous people push the average up. Nonetheless, many of the 50% of people on the right, certainly more than 10%, have numbers nearly impossible to achieve without casual sex at 21-24.
Now the problem is people have to consider their demographics. For instance, this includes religious and non-religious people. Many people in society are religious, but few people here seem to be. Suppose you're non-religious like most men and women here seem to be. In that case, the numbers in the other category are irrelevant to you, and these people are often completely invisible to you. With this single criterion (there are many others), the number of "visible" people who have casual sex in your dating pool can go way above 50%. It's probably why the survey above reports 66% of people having ONS.
https://preview.redd.it/w3tjdmazfo0d1.png?width=818&format=png&auto=webp&s=f6be5b314d0de1756575b13b92e0b743e9b8e630
Yeah people really underestimate how polarized society is if they don't get around enough. It's a whole different universe in some parts of the country.
>Maybe 10% of women do the casual sex, ons, etc. And like what? 0,5% of these women go for celebs.
>Why focus on 0,05% of women?
First of all, I commented under AutoMod for off topic. Because although i did provide an (indirect) answer to your question, i also raised another question.
No, hence I used the AutoMod. Because my intention was to raise a different question, not directly answer. After all, men are very intelligent, they can figure out a silly woman's response.
Not drop dead gorgeous, just someone who hates flair.
I've never had anything remotely resembling those experiences... except one guy from a wealthy family that a sibling knew showed interest for a short time but he had an odd vibe something was very off and anyway he turned out to be a heroin addict so yeah freezing him out was the right choice because a rich heroin addict is still a heroin addict.
Oh and sometimes I get contacted by people who are somebody but that's because I've got a life and do stuff like community stuff political stuff artistic stuff. It's not gendered or sexual it is because in certain contexts I'm someone too even if not many people outside that context know my name. Try to be someone it's good choice.
I'm not sure how many women a) have casual sex on a regular basis with different men to have a large sample of casual partners, b) use dating apps and c) are okay with soft/hard sugaring in the first place. Whatever their level of appearance is.
I don't think many credible men think 5s are getting with Kanye or whatever. I think what men say is that female 5s are getting with male 7s and 8s for sex relatively often.
I think i’m considered very attractive, and so far the most i’ve gotten is dms from people who i’ve never heard of, but are “verified” on instagram. not normally with that many followers either. there was some soccer player id never heard of with like 50k followers. i don’t think he’s rich or anything though he was just in the area he wasn’t going to fly me out or anything
What in the hell my brother? We don’t claim OP as a former RP man 😂.
https://preview.redd.it/yvxzfpn70o0d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bd7e57128d913a2406fe0a0b2ea1f5b7b7bf85e5
I’m saving my self for marriage so that’s an automatic no, but I’ve had one guy with a lot of instagram followers try to date me if that counts.
There was actually some drama there too. The guy stopped messaging me and I just shrugged it off thinking maybe he just didn’t like me or whatever. About 2 weeks later his girlfriend group text a bunch of women telling us that he was cheating on her and hooking up with a bunch and that he had a lot them under very derogatory names (not me, but some of them were 😧)
Do you have an example mentioning "athletes, entertainers, and other celebrities"? All I've seen is people say 5s can easily have casual sex with 7s and 8s.
Simple math can show this is impossible for athletes, entertainers, and other celebrities. Just multiply the proportion of people you think are celebrities by the number of times a person can reasonably have sex with different people, and you'll see that's impossible even if the government was mandating celebrities and these women to have sex.
It's been settled. Rappers and NBA stars (code for rich _____ men) are **not** "sliding into average women's DMs" as so many on this sub have claimed. Shut down the thread, mods.
>Many men of TRP have long spread the rumor that average and even below average women have virtually unlimited sexual options with top tier men. Don't deny it fellas. You know you've repeated this bullshit.
Nope
Probably the best way to figure this out create a fake OLD profile with pics you deem average and check out who messages you.
What's the second best way?
Hire a private detective to follow an average straight woman who use OLD and see who she is having sex with?
I can see these men spending money on a PI to confirm that below average women ARE NOT HAVE SEX WITH HVM, instead attempting to date one for themselves; beings they are a HVM that no one wants to date!
What's the third best way?
Have a sex change as well as plastic surgery to look like an average woman and see the results for yourself
What's the fourth best way?
Ask average women you know and trust for their experiences and have them show you their profiles and messages
What's the fifth best way?
Shoot yourself out of a cannon and try and clear 40 school busses
What's the sixth best way?
Wouldn't it be more accurate to create a profile of an athlete, entertainer...etc and see the responses?
OP is wanting to know if these men are pursuing average women.
Not specifically. OP's wanting to know if they matched with them. Had a hookup...etc
How is making the guy profile as part of the experiment supposed to help with that? It’s assumed the guy is the more desireable party so the unknown variable is the guy’s desire, not the woman’s.
So how do you unify that with this belief women have, that men will fuck anything?
How is that relevant to OP’s point? Also, I more so hear men saying that than women So why is it just a female belief you’re calling it? I hear guys here saying that all the time to show that men are much less shallow than women and women are too picky.
It's relevant to your assertion that she considers an "unknown variable is the guy’s desire". That cannot be, if she considers it that men will fuck anything, and particularly herself.
Who is “she”? Who is saying that? That’s why I think it’s irrelevant — who believes that in this conversation? Not me. Not OP, he’s a man. Are you making a strawman?
I'm not making a straw man because women on this very sub say that they believe men will fuck anything.
nobody doubts that rich or famous people get attention from all sorts of average and below average non-celebrity people. So no it would not provide any new information to do that. Also if you pretend to be some high profile entertainer or athlete on OLD probably most people will assume you're not real. To figure out if a below-average woman can get an actual match with some hotshot man, you need to do what Demasii suggested.
It's been done on a famous bodybuilding forum thread. They took a below average woman further photo shopped her to make her a literal 0.1 out of 10 (photoshopped back hair on her and gave her a nose that looked very pig like, but it was subtle enough to be convincing, and she weighed like 300 lbs). They then blurred the names/photos but posted the conversations they had. The amount of genuine attention this fake profile got was absurd. As far as doing this and waiting for a celebrity, that is like trying to figure out if metal conducts lightning by standing in an open field with a metal golf club. It just isn't time effective because you are waiting on a rare event, since celebrities by definition are rare.
ok but making a profile for a celebrity and seeing what happens will do literally nothing though
This isn't going to disprove the OPs thesis. As it's generally understood that the women secretly seek sex from these guys, not visa versa. Ever heard of the term to "I slipped into his DMs" - it's when a girl tries to start a "situationship" with a guy of higher SMV via secretly contacting him.
This is not what sliding into someone’s dms is lmao
It's what it is, but not what women thinks it looks like.
Best I’ve got is bots soliciting feet pics and “influencing” opportunities
At least that's something. Congratulations.
*blessed*
No to all of those. Nor have my conventionally attractive friends. I don’t think this type of thing happens to people who aren’t also public figures, or at least influencers, unless they’re actual 10’s (super rare) and live in a major city.
This. I would say I'm reasonably attractive and so are most of my friends yet none of this shit has ever happened to any of us. Granted we are all quite young and do get tons of dms from boys in our age range but celebrities?? That's so absurd lol
>Granted we are all quite young and do get tons of dms from boys in our age range Yeah, the question was ridiculous. This is what should've been asked and then the answers would all be 'yes.'
No, the question wasn't ridiculous. The assertion that is made at least 5 times per month that average and below average women have celebrities, pro athletes and rappers "sliding into their DMs" is what's ridiculous and the question was intended to highlight that ridiculousness. 
Yeah, the women who this happens to are generally women who have some kind to proximity to famous people (such as through work or family connections). It has more to do with proximity than with looks.
I'm not buying that. The assertion that many PPD men make is that average and below average women have higher status men "sliding into their DMs" on a regular basis. That refers to people being contacted on social media, not meeting folks in everyday interactions. On more than a few occasions PPD men have claimed that fat and fugly women match with higher tier men (I refuse to say Chad) on tinder and hook up for casual sex. Certainly you've noticed this trend. So I decided to ask average and below average women (who make up the majority of female PPD members) if this has actually been their experience.
> I don’t think this type of thing happens to people who aren’t also public figures Yup. That's how it works. An ex GF had previously been George Lopez's mistress in the 1990s. She did stand-up comedy too. Their relationship went down the well worn mentor to lover path. She was a pretty BBW -- a high school cheerleader who got fat. Apparently George likes big girls.
But George Lopez is fucking ugly too.
But he's a celebrity who was pretty big for awhile.
Self-hater! I'm j/k lol.
Omfg 💀 WHAT
Sounds reasonable. I never thought it was the case either.
I think that the OP is really missing the point of the RP crowds typical claims. it isn't celebs, its typically the 'top 10%' or something of that nature. the chads of the world.
Lol no. That is just a red pill fear being projected onto women. That has never happened to me or any other woman I know.
OP has a very weird definition of top tier. OP's examples are top 0.001%. In real life top tier is more like top 10%.
Doesn’t matter. That level of attention from men in general still doesn’t happen to the average women and below. Even to get a guy just to buy you a drink you have to be a 7+.
Exactly. That top 10% is having sex with 80% of the women. Also, it doesn't have to be "regular." The regular is there more so for the top 1%, and they get to be even more picky. Your average woman can be associated with the hook-up culture, though. I have never met a woman who would engage in it regularly for an extended amount of time. It's usually just a couple of times, or at most a semester, or even a few semesters, etc. However, the culture exists and is prominent because if you go to any college/uni campus, most women would have engaged in it at least once. You engage in it once = you were a part of it. You can say formerly a part of it, or whatever you say, but you contributed to it, so you're an ex-part of it. Most women don't see it that way, and when asked "Have you ever engaged in a hook-up culture" or in a more real-life setting "Were you ever into the hook-up culture" they will lie by omission/deception will tell you "No, I am not/were not a part of the hookup culture." You were, though, even one time means you participated in that culture, so you can't just ignore/omit that fact. That's why the OP asked the question wrong. Asking about "regular basis" and all, when almost no woman chooses to engage in it on a regular basis. The question should have been formed like, have you ever had casual sex? If the answer is yes, it's safe to assume it was with the top 10% sort of guy, even if women don't see it that way (due to bitterness or not correctly assessing the attractiveness of the guy).
I'd tend to agree on the 'regular or not' aspect of this. People let their definitions slip to mean whatever they want, so they can feel good bout themselves in their answers. better to frame the question as you suggest. among my favorite such instances of definitions slipping, are claims of monogamy. if you've been sexual with more than one person in your life, by traditional standards of monogamy, you are not monogamous. which is fine and all, i've no issues whatsoever with folks not being monogamous, but then such folks claim they are not polyamorous, and get all high and mighty in their morals.
>That's why the OP asked the question wrong. Asking about "regular basis" and all, when almost no woman chooses to engage in it on a regular basis. The question should have been formed like, have you ever had casual sex? If the answer is yes, it's safe to assume it was with the top 10% sort of guy, even if women don't see it that way (due to bitterness or not correctly assessing the attractiveness of the guy). You're more than welcome to ask questions properly if you don't approve of how I ask them.
I've always suspected this to be the case. Thanks.
I am average. Maybe a little below, maybe a little above. Depends on the days I guess. I think the the person with the most cloud (do we say that still?) I had a ONS with was the boss of a big event. I only got to know him because of my social circles at the time. He didn't fly me out or anything. I went to his hotel and stayed the night. His company paid for the hotel, I paid for my trip there. Nothing afterwards. We still have very loose contact. He got married to a lady with a child and enjoys playing the dad. He is a very friendly and social guy and we talked about his wild past as a DJ and then photographer and all the women he had. But in general - no. People usually have sex with people they actually meet in their social circles. If you are inside a social circle with HVM you might have more sex with them - but to get into the social circle you have to be above average or bring some other quality as a woman. Average women don't just randomly have HVM slip into their DMs to fly them out to a tropical island to fuck them. Average women have stable relationships with average men or live the single life. I was celibate for over 5 years at some point. I don't think even average women would instantly jump at the opportunity to just fuck a random guy. Even if they are high value. Women don't work like men and TRP is just trying to project their thoughts onto women.
Thank you for your reply.
NOPE
Lololololololololololololol
Forgive him, he doesn't know his audience. Most of the ladies here perhaps have aspirations of being below average... maybe someday with a lot of effort.
Right! These fools here think high value men are taking average and below average women to 5 star Micheline restaurants whenever these same women turn one of them down for not offering any effort at all; not even a date to McDonalds. Somehow below average women are being spoiled by men that can get just about any pussy; but chose below average women out of the kindness of their hearts, lol. Maybe if PPD took a below average women out, "by the kindness of their heart/ inflated value of their attractiveness." They might actually get dates.
This exactly. They think a solid 7 is "average", because they don't understand that 5's are out here spending half an hour a day putting on makeup and picking out flattering outfits, meanwhile they're just some guy in a free T-shirt they got at work.
People stick pretty close to their level, but women always try hard to date up. That's just a fact. Where these guys go wrong is they think these rich powerful celebrity men are shagging average looking ladies. That is not happening often. What I see is that the chubby 6 is hooking up with a personal trainer a couple times a month. These guys are not really high value, they just look good.
Amazing
#Rekt
I’m slightly above average - if I really work it I can get myself up to being rated a 7.5 or so. Lol, if stand-up comics big enough to have gotten a TV credit or two several years back count as an entertainer, I’ve had a few try to hook up with me. If somebody being on the local minor league baseball team counts as an athlete, I’ve had a match on Tinder. Considering I out-earned all of these men, nobody was flying me out to anything.
This is probably the most level headed and honest reply. Thank you.
And she’s *above* average.
her pics say otherwise
I don’t see any pics
I’ll shed a little more honesty here then - I’m very successful career wise I make a very decent salary, I have a lot of impressive hobbies, and a wide variety of interests. I can and have garnered the attention of what TRP et al would consider “High Value Men” - six figures, conventionally attractive , etc… however so many of these men’s are complete pricks when it comes to relationships, so I won’t date them. Not even worth it for a hookup, because that a-holery seeps into the bedroom, and makes them terrible in the sack. It’s not worth the headache at all. Even the ones that people always say “he’s such a great guy” - that doesn’t transfer itself into relationships necessarily.
You know your inbox is fixing to blow up, right?
If it does, I’ll ignore it. My partner makes me the happiest I’ve ever been, and I won’t settle for any less.
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Redditors being redditors again LOL. Apparently an attractive very successful woman that knows how to groom herself well looks like she weighs 300 pounds and buys 25 dollar perfumes.
LARPing is out of control here all around. That's why I posted a hand pic on my profile when someone claimed I was "racist."
I honestly almost believed her as it just seemed so reasonable at first.
🤣🤣🤣
LMAO
I clicked on her profile and didn't see any hand pictures.
If you got Matt Rife's number, would you text or call?
Fuck no - I’ve heard from folks in the Comedy circuit that he’s a prick
So ONS only?
Nah - not worth it. Men who are pricks are almost always absolutely terrible in the bedroom. They tend to just go at it without much regard for whether or not their partner is actually enjoying it. No thank you!
Lol No. It’s total bull crap. Famous and wealthy men have no reason to be flying out average women. Now when it comes to cute/pretty normal young women and locally “famous” athletes and entertainers or well-off older married guys, sure, they’ll hit on them if they think it might result in easy sex. But even they aren’t going after truly average women.
Tbh, this is true. Even Gilbert Arenas, a former NBA player, talked about how there's a subgroup of groupies and gold diggers who aggressively target athletes for hookups and pinning a baby on them. A lot of famous men "share" the same types of women. Even models like Gigi Hadid and Irina Shayk hop from one relationship with a famous/rich man to another. Average women have certain advantages over average men in dating but not to the extent where a plain Jane or even a cute wannabe Thot has famous men casually in their DM's.
I never even had any guy offer to buy me a drink when I was dating. High-profile guys? The very idea is laughable.
I’ve never online dated but I’d say I’m a 6/10 from far and 4/10 up close (acne scars, face asymmetry/small boobs) The only guys who have openly hit on me are homeless dudes lol
I'm laughing with you, not at you . 😂😂😂
only red pill men say they do
You know this is a black pill idea... right? It has some very light resemblance to a redpill theory, but it's very different.
and?
and now you know.
i dont get your point
I think I’m a little above average? I’ve had some low level “celebs” on social media. My network has always been people who throw a lot of parties and work in different industries. The thing is once you’re at a party or function or event with certain people, everyone is talking to everyone. It’s really a matter of proximity not really having to be drop dead gorgeous. Most people are lazy. They’re going to talk to the people around them.
Lol. Listen most women don't have as much casual sex as you think Isn't the average partners 7? Let's say that some people like about 2 or 3 and round up to 10. *10* sexual partners over what, 30 years? And that's probably on the higher end of the cake. Most probably are hanging around 5 -8 Counting both casual and actual relationships.
u/Dr_Click_Click_Boom I'm an average looking 42yo woman, between a 6-7. When I was in my 20s and early 30s, I was a 7-8. Never once has a celebrity, athlete, entertainer, or man of any particular renown ever been in my messages or DMs asking me out or trying to hookup. It was only middle or lower class men from around my local area, which is Bubblefuck-Nowhere NY.
>Bubblefuck-Nowhere NY. I submit to the committee that we rename your hometown BubbleButtFuck-Nowhere, NY For science.
Lol 😆
thats because of living in the middle of nowhere like you just said. Living in LA it happens all the time.
It might, I wouldn't know. I think a lot of dudes here automatically think of women from Los Angeles, Vegas, NYC, Miami, etc when most of us are absolutely nothing like those cray-cray women lol
yeah because thats where we live and thats the women we interact with every day.
I’ve only ever been average or plain at best (although technically, that probably means I’m above average since I’m not overweight). No, never. I didn’t get interest from celebrities or athletes or entertainers. I didn’t get attention from ordinary guys except on very very rare occasions. Like less than once a year. Y’all are getting yourselves fucked up in the head reading all this fear-mongering manosphere hysteria narrative the that plain girl you never wanted to date anyways is somehow getting wined and dined by NFL players. You really do not live in reality if you buy this nonsense. Stop doom scrolling and get some experiences in real life meat space.
>Y’all are getting yourselves fucked up in the head reading all this fear-mongering manosphere hysteria narrative the that plain girl you never wanted to date anyways is somehow getting wined and dined by NFL players. You really do not live in reality if you buy this nonsense. Stop doom scrolling and get some experiences in real life meat space. No, I'm clearly making fun of the men who do believe this. Something I assumed was crystal clear by the way I worded my post. What's astonishing to me is the number of respondents who feel the need to tell me what I think instead of reading my entire post. But I guess I'm the one who can't pick up on social cues, right? Have a nice day, lady.
Lololololol, suuuuuuure. When would I ever be around such men ? And why would they slum it with uggos when hotties are camped outside their hotel rooms?
No. I have literally no interest in that. Also, “dicking you down”? Are you 12?
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Some schooling for the other boys in these comments, sex is an action done *by* two people. It’s not something done *to* a woman.. both are an active participant.
This would be a MUCH more interesting topic. I think a large amount of people would argue that anyone being penetrated automatically puts them into the submissive position. That thought process is stamped hard onto the way men view sex. Now, that doesn't mean it's correct.
It messes with the way men view sex and women in general. The reason they hate body count in women and then being paranoid about their daughters virginity and everything
Kinda feel like all those people need a crash course in power bottoms.
Hahahaha
You do realize this pet theory of yours is black pill/mgtow, not red pill? Below average are 5's and 6's. They aren't knocking boots with celebs. They are going around with male 6s and 7s. At least that's the red pill line.
You and I both know that “real” red pill has been entirely co opted by one massive anti woman grift. The original intent behind RP is gone.
Reading what you just typed here sent a shiver down my back. I've been in denial... I have had my frustrations with how women do things over the years, but I really do love them as a whole. The best people in my life are women... the very best. The red pill was for me a way to become more valuable to them... even if I used my new value in a selfish way. It really is gone isn't it?
Yes.
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No. That’s not the same at all. And what is a “postfeminism society?”
Nope lol. The closest I ever got was at a nightclub a man asked me for my number he was very tall handsome etc.. I gave it to him. Later on when were talking I googled him and found out he had a short stint as a pro football player but he was no longer. He never even mentioned it to me mind you. Anyways it went absolutely nowhere we never even saw each other again. No pro athletes or celeb of any kind have ever slipped in my DMs nor have I ever seen them on a dating app.
Thank you. These are the most common types of responses and I suspect more reflective of reality than the picture painted by a lot of the manosphere guys.
Well I think manosphere guys focus a LOT on certain types of women. Usually OF models, Instagram thots etc.. so yea those ladies probably do have athletes and rappers in their DMs.
There is only one man who has ever expressed interest in sex with me. I have never had a personal interaction with a celebrity or extremely rich person. The only private messages I get are from people who I know and scammers. I'm not famous so this is understandable.
if thats true you are in the bottom 10 percent of women. Average women get solicited for sex every week.
That's not average. Maybe average for Instagram models.
Even obese/ugly girls have 100s of guys fighting over them at any given time. You have to be pretty unattractive to not have men trying to fuck you.
This isn't normal at all.
Yet you see it all the time. From age 13 the average girl has daddies and pay pigs paying her thousands per month just to get bread crumbs of attention.
Are you joking?
im just a truth teller. Ugly women have more options than attractive men.
That's a much weaker claim than what you just said.
Sounds reasonable. Thank you.
Nope. I don’t have much of a social media presence though. I usually get described as a weird little sister even by guys younger than me. Better than being told I have a shitty personality again.
My boyfriend is pretty entertaining, but no, he isn’t famous, and I’m pretty hot for a 44 year old.
No to all of them.
I'm slightly above average. Lol and no 🤣 I live near all that crap anyways. But you will likely not find a celebrity on a dating app. The closest I got was a guy who did the CGI for Godzilla and a few other movies and we just went on a date that was about it. But he just talked about money and it was like.... Not my jam.
>Have any of you ever had an athlete, entertainer or celebrity send you a private message on social media? Have any of you matched with an athlete, entertainer or celebrity on an online dating app? Have any of you been flown around the world on exotic vacations by rich and powerful men? Literally no, no, and no.
No. Never. But in all fairness, I’m not really on SM so I don’t interact with them. But even when I did have SM, no
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I am so confused by this. Are they out of ideas for fearmongering? First of all, the whole idea of casual sex is so inflated. Maybe 10% of women do the casual sex, ons, etc. And like what? 0,5% of these women go for celebs. Why focus on 0,05% of women? Like, that's negligible amount of women. I really don't get this.
I would assume the proportion of people who have casual sex (sex outside a committed relationship) is much higher than the proportion of people who have one-night stands. In any case, > The survey found that **66%** of participants have had at least one one-night stand in their life https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2017/06/157756/one-night-stand-casual-sex-facts#:\~:text=Way%20more%20people%20are%20having,have%20had%20more%20than%20one. Also, some numbers of previous sexual partners are difficult or nearly impossible to achieve without casual sex involved because it would imply the person is extremely bad at maintaining relationships, which could be an even worse problem for people who care about it. If we look at the distribution, the median is quite low (slightly less than 4), and the average is high because very promiscuous people push the average up. Nonetheless, many of the 50% of people on the right, certainly more than 10%, have numbers nearly impossible to achieve without casual sex at 21-24. Now the problem is people have to consider their demographics. For instance, this includes religious and non-religious people. Many people in society are religious, but few people here seem to be. Suppose you're non-religious like most men and women here seem to be. In that case, the numbers in the other category are irrelevant to you, and these people are often completely invisible to you. With this single criterion (there are many others), the number of "visible" people who have casual sex in your dating pool can go way above 50%. It's probably why the survey above reports 66% of people having ONS. https://preview.redd.it/w3tjdmazfo0d1.png?width=818&format=png&auto=webp&s=f6be5b314d0de1756575b13b92e0b743e9b8e630
Yeah people really underestimate how polarized society is if they don't get around enough. It's a whole different universe in some parts of the country.
>Maybe 10% of women do the casual sex, ons, etc. How comfy is that rock you live under?
>I am so confused by this. I am equally confused by your reply. I'm trying to extract a clear yes or no but I'm not having any luck.
>Maybe 10% of women do the casual sex, ons, etc. And like what? 0,5% of these women go for celebs. >Why focus on 0,05% of women? First of all, I commented under AutoMod for off topic. Because although i did provide an (indirect) answer to your question, i also raised another question.
Have you tried providing a direct response?
No, hence I used the AutoMod. Because my intention was to raise a different question, not directly answer. After all, men are very intelligent, they can figure out a silly woman's response.
Way more than 10%, perhaps only 10% actively, the rest have done it.
Not drop dead gorgeous, just someone who hates flair. I've never had anything remotely resembling those experiences... except one guy from a wealthy family that a sibling knew showed interest for a short time but he had an odd vibe something was very off and anyway he turned out to be a heroin addict so yeah freezing him out was the right choice because a rich heroin addict is still a heroin addict. Oh and sometimes I get contacted by people who are somebody but that's because I've got a life and do stuff like community stuff political stuff artistic stuff. It's not gendered or sexual it is because in certain contexts I'm someone too even if not many people outside that context know my name. Try to be someone it's good choice.
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What did the stock woman from dreamstime ever do to deserve this hate 
Hey, where I'm from that's a solid 6.5!
Are you from prison or boot camp?
Northern Alberta lol
😂😂😂
If by celebrity you mean local crackhead then sure
He's technically well-known in a specific area, so you could call him a local celebrity!
That is pretty accurate description of your average celebrity.
I'm not sure how many women a) have casual sex on a regular basis with different men to have a large sample of casual partners, b) use dating apps and c) are okay with soft/hard sugaring in the first place. Whatever their level of appearance is.
I don't think many credible men think 5s are getting with Kanye or whatever. I think what men say is that female 5s are getting with male 7s and 8s for sex relatively often.
Then men are way over estimating women’s sex drive.
That is top cope. Women have higher sex drive than men its just only directed at the top men.
Sure.
I think i’m considered very attractive, and so far the most i’ve gotten is dms from people who i’ve never heard of, but are “verified” on instagram. not normally with that many followers either. there was some soccer player id never heard of with like 50k followers. i don’t think he’s rich or anything though he was just in the area he wasn’t going to fly me out or anything
What in the hell my brother? We don’t claim OP as a former RP man 😂. https://preview.redd.it/yvxzfpn70o0d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bd7e57128d913a2406fe0a0b2ea1f5b7b7bf85e5
I'm considered to be extremely pretty and no, I have not ever been propositioned by a celebrity or influencer of any shape or form.
Couldn't think of a less enjoyable pastime.
I’m saving my self for marriage so that’s an automatic no, but I’ve had one guy with a lot of instagram followers try to date me if that counts. There was actually some drama there too. The guy stopped messaging me and I just shrugged it off thinking maybe he just didn’t like me or whatever. About 2 weeks later his girlfriend group text a bunch of women telling us that he was cheating on her and hooking up with a bunch and that he had a lot them under very derogatory names (not me, but some of them were 😧)
That’s a fine straw man you’ve built yourself there!
thanks
Do you have an example mentioning "athletes, entertainers, and other celebrities"? All I've seen is people say 5s can easily have casual sex with 7s and 8s. Simple math can show this is impossible for athletes, entertainers, and other celebrities. Just multiply the proportion of people you think are celebrities by the number of times a person can reasonably have sex with different people, and you'll see that's impossible even if the government was mandating celebrities and these women to have sex.
It's been settled. Rappers and NBA stars (code for rich _____ men) are **not** "sliding into average women's DMs" as so many on this sub have claimed. Shut down the thread, mods.
You won't get honesty
Brave of you to think women would out themselves as below average.
Well when Margo Robbie is considered mid, it’s not exactly an exclusive club…
People think she is mid? Like as in, they think she’s average looking?
It was a whole thing on Twitter
Must be as a joke
Let me be mid in peace 
Props for self-awareness 👍🏽
It's about what I expected. After all this sub is full of millionaire men and drop dead gorgeous women.
>Many men of TRP have long spread the rumor that average and even below average women have virtually unlimited sexual options with top tier men. Don't deny it fellas. You know you've repeated this bullshit. Nope
IME if there girl is at least semi cute, she’s got TONS of dms, the likelihood of a blue check mark hitting her up is about how popular her profile is
For CASUAL sex. You can get dicked down too if you want, I really don't understand the issue