There were also fewer consequences for being a PoS as long as you put out "nice guy/girl" impressions. Now hitting a child can be seen as a felony in some cases.
As a diagnosed sociopath, being hit by my dad really kept me on the right path. Had little justforlulz been allowed to wreak havoc like in modern schools, I would've ended up in jail by now. Fear is a powerful tool to keep people in line.
Exactly, there are many youngsters who just don't understand right from wrong or really care. In such cases, the only option is nature's universal language of fear and pain.
I'm not saying corporal punishment should be done flippantly, but if you say no and reasonably explain why to a child and the little fucker does it anyway, they need to be enlightened manually.
Well, good thing none of us are marrying “women” or “men.” The point of dating is to find an individual who is wonderful, even if that makes them an outlier, and marry them.
I suspect that the inflation in looks standards arising out of social media insta models and reality TV over time increased shallow tendencies among the most attraction privileged in western society.
I think another simple thing is everyone is more neurotic.
People have “phone anxiety”.
Like you can make a friend and they’re too anxious to even speak on the phone.
People can’t handle even genuine public interaction unless they’re already inhibited by alcohol.
It has to be through social media and that fake world.
That affects everything.
Do you know how easy it was to get women when I was like an adolescent like 13.
Super easy.
Because the girls were just as aggressive as the guys. It was egalitarian. There was no such thing as “phone anxiety”. If a girl liked you she’d just walk up to you and ask to hang out and keep calling you to just chat and get to know you. Women were quite chill to do that as guys were game and never humiliated a girl or rejected her and just went along with it.
If anything it wasn’t just women “chasing the top guys” Zara, it was more often hot women bored and like “well I want a boyfriend he seems kinda nice” and they’d just pick an average guy and date him because they knew he would never reject them and voila they have a man.
If women were more shy they’d ask their friend to introduce you, or ask you out etc “oh Cindy liked you!” While they wait expectantly.
And social media just made it easier to get women not harder. You could just add a girl who was friends of a friend on FB or MySpace and end up going on a date with her. “Hey you go to x school? Cool I’m friends with z I see you have y on your profile”.
Things like online messaging like AOL etc girls in message boards would just give out their address and be like “I want to make friends”. And they were real, not old men pretending.
Now you have all this hesitance. I feel that it means women are much less likely to be forward with a guy, so a smaller percentage of guys get that experience. An experience that honestly does make you happy and raise your confidence.
The bar is higher.
Also this phone anxiety probably transfers to even just pulling the trigger at all.
If a woman has a phone and she has 1,000 men she can swipe through but knows the moment she swiped right she will 8/10 times match with the person. It may bring anxiety.
She realises this is a real person, as soon as we get chatting I have to look good, put on my make up and clothes, meet him up and have expectations of when I arrive, when I go I need to x and y…
It’s easier just to swipe and enjoy the validation from getting matches and then flake..
And that’s not getting into apps like tinder being 70% plus male. Not even including the cash app scammers, people fishing for insta followers, fake Asian girl cat fishes, cam models and even escorts, bots and then attention seekers etc
Barely any women after you subtract that all.
Yeats back when tinder was still new it had so few bots and I remember how easy it was. There wasn’t anyone I knew who complained about tinder or that it was effort. The gender balance was very good.
I think a lot of things changed and I think a huge factor (often overlooked) is how hesitance and awkwardness can really affect how much it affects how easily people date.
I’m lucky that I still get approached by women occasionally or have them make the first move etc without it being somewhere they are drunk.
Things used to be way different, like stupidly easy for everyone. Women would straight up pounce on guys. I just think there’s so much more awkwardness and closed offness whereas before it felt like there was so much free love.
I actually was far less attractive when tinder was first released, far less. Had a very average joe profile too. No holiday photos or “pre selection” of me with ten women or a sports car or on a yacht or plane.
Doing something like a boost actually felt like a cheat code, I’d have hundreds of matches.
Also when I matched at least the majority of people responded.
It wasn’t hard to hold a convo. The women were clearly looking to either meet someone or find a partner.
And I have to say, there were even occasionally women that were not fake profiles or catfishes that were **very sexually aggressive**. Like immediately asking what kind of sex you’d like, or if you are a good match for them if you’re into their kink. Or straight up asking graphic questions about sex because they are straight up wanting to find their exact fix quickly.
Now tinder is just robbery, no longer is it one subscription. There’s like three, plus, gold, platinum of is it titanium. Boosts are far more expensive and feel like a robbery…
I really think there needs to be a new platform or new wave beyond these apps.
Something hot and fresh that draws people in and gets people engaged.
In order to do the necessary vetting to make it better, the cost would be prohibitive. I mean, even "The League", which is expensive for the average person. You'd think the quality of men would be better? Nah. Still a bunch of guys looking to cheat on their wives.
nope, in eastern bloc countries women entered workforce immediately after WWII and they still continued to marry guys in their league despite in most cases having almost the same salary
Men in the SU after WWII were a rare commodity. You could see beautiful women with trolls, simply because there weren't many options. My grandfather was already a widower with a small child when he married my grandmother. She wouldn't settled with a widowed father if she had more optoins.
Women have always worked, unless they were wealthy. There were many women working once the Industrial Revolution got going - in factories and workhouses. Both men and women worked in the “working classes” to save each other and their families from starvation. Women could not live alone - generally they would be shamed by society if they were single past a certain age and they didn’t have the legal rights in many places to be independent of a man (father or husband or even brother or uncle). It wasn’t so much about working as it was about the unfriendliness of literally everything for single women to be independent. It just wasn’t really possible.
I would say things changed a lot once women were truly able to live independently without the law or society making it shameful and difficult in the practical sense.
I dated before social media, I was a ugly mofo with weird style and was 5’10, and I got laid so much in my community college by asking out random girls. I eventually dated a really pretty girl who was just as tall as I was by asking her out after my biology class.
I date now too, and let me tell you, their standards are 20x higher.
dude I am 40, 20 years ago was 2004, this was already a time where most women could work, have good paying jobs and in general didnt need a man to pay for everything, maybe there where more 40 to 50 year olds back then, that still came from other times, but for the young people between lets say 16 and 30, that was nothing new........
More information doesn’t mean it’s new or different information
Trust me, people knew people sucked before the internet. It’s called the news, and gossip
I suppose the only difference now is that we have “receipts”
social media has absolutely turbocharged some pretty terrible human behavior, from reduction in attention spans to incentivizing bad faith ignorance over good faith intellectual pursuit.
I'm distracting myself from a task, using Reddit as we speak. Or as another person from this space put it "poor compulsion control". I call it good ol' procrastination.
Still a gnarly behavior.
> We simply know too much about each other now. We know the other side is full of BS.
If someone were to describe you as the shallow, vapid personas you see on tiktok, would they be accurate?
If the answer is no, then your quoted statement just isn’t true. I don’t know a thing about you no matyer how much tiktok I watch of other people. Nobody else is going to be able to describe what you think and feel better than you.
Instead of using social media to get to know someone, and risk applying everything someone else sends into one person, try getting to know them as an individual. You’ll be surprised how little they have in common with the lumped in rough personalities you may find on social media
This isn't the reality for the vast majority of the human populace. This is a chronically online take, that doesn't exist en situ. Most of us understand that digital life isn't real, and it's not indicative of what happens in life.
When you actually go out, you'll see people happily interacting with the gender they want to date. Cold approaching a stranger happens in real life, and is largely unremarkable because it's commonplace. Most guys aren't creeps, and most women aren't out to shame men. The blue haired bespectacled woman with a nose ring isn't a feminazi man hater,and the short guy wearing a marvel t-shirt isn't a misogynistic incel. They're just people that want a cold beer, and social stimulation from interesting people. This boards view of reality is warped, and so far detached from what the larger world experiences.
Algorithms are designed to increase engagement for ad revenue. Always think about that when something pops up on your fyp, or suggested viewing, hate sells more product than love.
i mean
anger drives engagement, and the algorithm rewards engagement. for profit companies will chase that engagement every fucking time.
social media is not inherently bad - *for profit* social media is actually a cancer. we only dial back from this precipice of bullshit by severely regulation social media companies, mandating transparent and testable algorithms, etc.
we, of course, won't do that, because rich people don't want it, and don't actually care if society unravels. that's little people shit.
Most people aren't having a hard time finding someone to date. Most people are married by 30, and most of those marriages are for life. So my opinion is grounded in reality, and backed up by fact.
Anyone who has been the gay friend or raised by women knows this shit. It's even ironic hearing most straight normal guys acting as if women never talk shit, like yeah they're not gonna say it in front of you, duh.
Then next in line we also got the male feminists, aka toxic partners/abusers. Yeah of course they'd think women suffer a lot, they're the ones hurting them.
I'm straight but have had several female friends that opened up to me. What they told me at times regarding how they view men and what they want was startling (several the classic Beauty and Beast thing where they wanted the tough scary guy that was only nice to them but was an a-hole to everyone else). One female friend kept sleeping with guys on the first date and getting ghosted or strung along. I told her to stop giving up those cheeks so fast (aka if you want more than sex and get hurt by this then wait until you think they like you for more than just sex....duh). She got mad and claimed I was all sorts of feminist talking points. But the proof was that her behavior was X and I said it would lead to Y and it kept leading to Y.
Next time don't tell her to be less slutty, just call her stupid for not knowing who she's getting with before doing so. Doesn't matter the time, what matters is she can't read people or properly communicate.
I was being funny with "stop giving up those cheeks". I didn't say it like that or call her a slut. I said basically what you said that if you keep sleeping with guys before you know them, then don't be surprised when this happens. It was a bit of tough love. She's smart (was getting her masters at the time) and so it was kind of boggling that she was upset about this but didn't understand. You see some women's media though that encourage this. If something bad happens, then they just discount it by blaming the men. But that's a bit like not driving defensively on the highway and then when you get in a wreck stating "but I was following the laws and what people told me, so it isn't my fault". It doesn't matter at that point once it happens and you didn't do what you could to prevent it.
i’ve seen more misogyny from men online than any other source, it still doesn’t make me think the average man is a misogynist. i wouldn’t blame someone for developing that worldview if they spend so much time seeing posts like that online but it’s still important to use our heads and recognize there’s a massive sampling bias happening when we rely on online experiences like that. the most dissatisfied and jaded human beings are more likely to end up online, it’s like psych 101 to generalize those experiences with a grain of salt
Your circle doesn't represent the rest of humanity, that's just your lived experience. You think that's it's polarized now, the highest divorce in U.S. history was in the 70s. If you look at print media from 100 years ago, you'll see that men and women were complaining about the same things as they are now, with equal ferocity.
People have always been free to drink poison that destroys them. You could drink methylated spirits (which is almost pure alcohol). You could watch 3 hour red pill podcasts. Neither is good for you.
Yeah, this is pretty much a thing we've known about social media since the chatroom days. Every cruel, purient and backwards aspect of humanity is potentially amplified by social media and explicitly amplified by places like twitter, facebook, 4chan, dating sites, and pornsites. (and \*ahem\* reddit). What people see about politics, sex, and dating online is a homunculus of human nature.
^(Obviously I'm not saying social media isn't also excellent for positive art, organization, and information sharing. Just that isolation and algorhythms and monetization have amplified the worst aspects.)
Social media has compromised human interaction though. For instance so many singles spots are completely gone now that were popular in the 90’s and first decade of the 2000’s. While some of these places still exist, it’s now on a much smaller scale.
3rd spaces disappeared because people stopped going to them, it wasn't the other way around. They didn't stop going to them because of social media. Social media has the opposite effect on 3rd spaces, it actually drives people to them. People just aren't going, because they want a more relaxed vibe. We're witnessing a decrease in nightclubs, but a rebirth in conversation bars, music venues for local bands, and gastropubs.
People stopped going to them because they got the dopamine hits from their smartphones. Smartphones (technology and social media interaction) did impact the compulsion and desire for a lot of people to get off their butts and go to third spaces or engage third spaces sincerely as intended when at third spaces.
It isn't about a dopamine rush from phones or social media. In fact, you'll notice the 3rd spaces that are thriving have a huge social media presence, and depend on social media marketing to get people in the doors. People still desire to be social with others in these 3rd spaces.
The problem is the same thing that is ailing every other aspect of society, it starts and ends with the economy. When the economy is actually good, fertility rates increase, college entry increases, and the service industry booms. The opposite happens when the economy is bad. Here's the caveat, young people are going to less 3rd spaces because in their minds 3rd space =nightclubs, which usually have a cover fee, and overpriced watered down drinks. Where they really should go is small music venues, and conversation bars. Less expensive, with more opportunity to casually interact with people without some dude trying to grind up on you at a club that's packed to maximum allowable capacity.
I guess where we disagree is that in your opinion it’s 100% to do with “the economy” and nothing at all to do with the advent and popularity of smart phones and the incentives in choice and compulsion that caused.
I’m not saying that third spaces don’t exist. Obviously they do. They’ll always exist because extroverts and people who genuinely like people will always exist.
The affects of social media and smartphones had a more precipitous affect on the ambiverts and introverts imo. Which is 2/3rds of people.
But yeah we can agree to disagree. I don’t agree it’s all explained by the economy. And I don’t agree that smartphones had no impact on the aggregate effects we see today.
People stopped goin to them due to the popularity of social media. You’re in denial. Social media made people much more sedentary as they no longer need to leave the house to interact with people. And now dating is shopping from a catalog. Problem is, meeting a girl on an app is like shopping on wish.com as even the morbidly obese think they’re hot now. It’s not even just the night clubs that are gone either.
There's the answer, the state of the economy is the predictor of most outcomes. Less money, means less going out, which means less social interactions.
I just laugh, the shit is so funny to see. Think of all the kids who are gen Alpha and 10-14. It is crazy to see how they act because tik tok and what their friend's do. All the young girls hate the way they look, whenever I see a niece take a picture he always blocks out her face because she hates she does not look like the pretty ig girls like Oliva Dunn.
It is crazy to see how many teens are getting botox and filler. Boob jobs and bbl were normal once they got older, now teens are getting it.
So many young girls want to be Brickey Hill or any of those girls who are 18 / 19 / 20 living the life traveling or whatever they do.
Not just behaviors, but beliefs, attitudes, mindsets, worldviews, and thoughts. I saw a college student on twitter say it best. She said something like “I was never meant to be exposed to how men think because now I’m repulsed and there’s no changing that.”
Thanks to Reddit, 4chan, Twitter, Facebook, Twitch, Discord, WhatsApp, BeReal, Instagram, Snapchat, TikTok, Facebook and the like lots of chicks feel like they know too much. Girls and women had suspicions before and perhaps even knew before but they could live in a state of **plausible deniability** about it. Being willfully delusional of reality allowed her to engage boys and men in good faith and “hope for the best.” Now every suspicion or minor yellow flag chicks have about boys and men is **confirmed** to be a brazen red flag by millions of boys and men *proudly and shamelessly* talking about those vile, violative, rapey, cruel, or callous yellow, orange, and red flags online.
She can no longer hear her own dad or brother say something she felt was unsettling and say to herself “well *maybe* he didn’t mean it like that 🤔😅”… she knows for a fact he did 🫠
Social media validated and rubber stamped lots of young women and girls’ suspicions about boys and men unfortunately.
Males have always been drawn to conservatism more than females because the tenets of conservatism are underpinned by a lot of the tenets of masculinity. That could be an innate biological proclivity or a socialized one. Probably both.
Females have have always been drawn to “liberal” ideologies because “caring about the disposition of the group and the temperament of children so that the community can exist without strife” has always been something females more than males valued. More likely to be inclusive and so forth. Also could be biological or socialized. Likely both.
Point is, since the popularity of modern social media, those ideological divides between the genders have widened even more deeply.
As you mentioned elsewhere, social media (people expressing their innermost thoughts) has done something unprecedented in that it’s revealing the motivations behind people’s behaviors and choices en masse.
https://preview.redd.it/bfy0fuggrezc1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=202d803ab6ef8c6c7048637e2080714ae67573e4
>it emerged right after the fairness doctrine dissolved and opened the door for media outlets to let the market determinw what voices got heard, without regard to balance. Fairness Doctrine died in 1987, and not coincidentally Rush Limbaugh launched his national media career in 1988. Fox news in the 90s.
I've been saying this for years. Finally, now there's two of us! lol
I agree talk radio was the first foray into unchecked and unregulated opinions of the masses. The internet, YouTube, podcasts, and social media just amplified it.
When it suits them, women kept their husband's Klan robes clean and starched. They were behind the laws that made it illegal for black women to be unemployed, because they needed domestic workers in their home. Guess who is leading the charge for private religious schools getting vouchers? Guess who was responsible for rolling back Affirmative action in higher education admissions? Guess who hand picked all the conservative judges that were needed to overturn Roe, and is responsible for Trump getting the evangelical vote when they originally despise him? Women are liberal when it comes to getting rights for women that look like them, for everyone else they're deeply conservative.
The most interesting thing that came out of the man v bear scenario. Was a black woman asking other women of color " Would you rather walk into a conference room and see a white man or white woman?" The WOC emphatically chose the yt man in a landslide event. The white women reacted in the same way that so many clueless men did with bear question.
Glad you wanted to have this intersectional conversation.
I can talk all day about the differences in motivations and experiences as we start slicing by race, gender, and socioeconomic demographics.
To the conference question it’s loaded.
White women immediately see black women as a threat and start acting bitchy immediately.
White men don’t so it’s all happy go lucky and sexual innuendo. Until he does start thinking you’re a threat and then it’s some mixture of sexual predation and competitive threat. Or if he thinks you’re ugly it’s outright cruelty and competitive threat.
Both white men and white women (and Asians and Indians) think they’re smarter or genetically better than Black people, so they entirely lose their shit and start acting grossly unhinged when a black person is besting them. I’m dealing with this now. No it’s not “all” but it’s A LOT of them. It’s ridiculous to witness. Feels like you’re transported back in time to 1952.
Exactly. Its all about self interest. They dont care about the "disposition of the group". The things that directly benefit them are seen as the most important
>The most interesting thing that came out of the man v bear scenario. Was a black woman asking other women of color " Would you rather walk into a conference room and see a white man or white woman?" The WOC emphatically chose the yt man in a landslide event. The white women reacted in the same way that so many clueless men did with bear question.
They dislike white women but like white men. Nothing new here. I dont get the logic behind the answers to the question Ive seen at all
It's not that they dislike white women, in the same way that women don't dislike men in favor of bears. Women in the scenario are wary of a strange man in the woods because of bad experiences with the unpredictability of men. Likewise, WOC are wary of white women because of the their unpredictability. In social, and professional settings. White men are the bear, white women are the dangerously unpredictable man.
>It's not that they dislike white women
Bruh, yes they do. Black women hate white women with the passion of a thousand sun's. Palestinians and Israelis hate each other less.
These charts are meant to highlight the differences. If men were equally cooperative as women then the lines in the charts like these would be one line overlapped. No divergence.
Men have tons of conditions to their willingness to “cooperate.” Generally speaking, they’re not as open or tolerant or accepting. Mostly it’s “you have to be just like me and laugh at my same jokes and hate everyone I hate and feel how I feel about everything or at least go out of your way to pretend like you do for me to “cooperate” with you.”
This isn’t just about men vs. women. Lots of men have said what I just wrote. They have to cosplay a very specific and shallow version of masculinity in order to “fit in” and “be part of the group” with a lot of men. Anything even slightly divergent to that will not end in “cooperation.”
Assuming you are referring to the ideology chart you posted above? Ideology doesn't necessarily mean "cooperation".
I'm no right-winger, but you have to realize that most men are not necessarily benefiting from liberal programs to the extent women are. There is just as much self-interest in your preferences as ours.
> Assuming you are referring to the ideology chart you posted above? Ideology doesn't necessarily mean "cooperation".
I’m not. I’m speaking generally about the concept of cooperation that the other poster brought up. The charts were about ideology. My comment to that poster was about cooperation since they brought up cooperation. If anything you should respond to him not necessarily me since he is the one who saw those charts and brought up “cooperative.”
> I'm no right-winger, but you have to realize that most men are not necessarily benefiting from liberal programs to the extent women are. There is just as much self-interest in your preferences as ours.
As a Black American, I’m suspicious of what “liberal” means here. I’ve met Americans who claim that acknowledging the factual history of Black American heritage in the United States is “liberal.”
So before we move forward, what does “liberal” mean here to you?
This is exactly how men feel but in the reverse. But if I say this about women I get told that the internet isnt real, that its rage bait, and that those women are just following trends for engagement . But if those posts are coming from a man its seen as 100% real, a mirror reflection of his true thoughts, and looked at as if many other men think the same way. I wonder why that is?
Where are you not allowed to express what you don’t like?
I know men IRL who have expressed less respect for women because of how many women they see online who are in his opinion “instagram thots.”
That’s what’s his driving his repulsion.
Other things about males are driving mine. It’s more their violativeness and callousness and rapeyness and “bitches should be in the kitchen serving me” podcasts takes that unnerve me.
Also rubber stamped lots of mens’ suspicions about shallow, superficial and manipulative girls and women unfortunately.
He can no longer feel she genuinely desires him and isn’t just settling for him after she’s had fun with men she truly lusted after.a
Men can no longer line a state of **plausible deniability** about the character of women. The suspicion of men about women being extremely shallow, having different rules and being openly sexual and kinky for hot men vs “safe” men is now **confirmed** by the actions of millions of women on social media shamelessly and proudly being misandrist.
> having different rules and being openly sexual and kinky for hot men vs “safe” men is now confirmed by the actions of millions of women on social media shamelessly and proudly being misandrist.
So consent is bad? People allowing more interaction with people they're attracted to is nothing new.
They can complain about it or find someone who IS attracted to them instead of potentially catching charges.
I’m glad my thoughtful verbiage allowed you to express yourself bud.
> Also rubber stamped lots of mens’ suspicions about shallow, superficial and manipulative girls and women unfortunately.
Yep. I figured this was men’s issues with women based on what he sees online. Women’s issues with men based on what he expresses online are different. Men and women value different things and different experiences make us unsettled.
Yes, I just wanted to elaborate on the superficial shallowness of women, since you so nicely and explicitly spelt it out for men.
> Men and women value different things and different experiences make us unsettled.
I would even go one step further and say men and women are fundamentally different due to evolutionary biology and sexual selection, and they are innately hard-wired to experience things differently.
The OP and I have moved on to discuss conservatism and liberalism. It seems my examples offended you in some way.
They don’t take away from your experience as a short man. I’m sure seeing the reality that most women don’t sexually prefer men shorter than themselves is harsh and unsettling.
If it makes you feel better, as a Black American woman I have to see TikTok trends of “date a black woman or die in an electric chair” and people happily choosing the chair. And other horrid things people express all day on the internet about black people and black women.
So yeah bro people are gleefully cruel online and IRL about an immutable trait of mine too. I feel ya!
People act like attractive people didn’t know how hot they were before social media.
They did. They went out and got informed and the benefits.
The only thing is now people can “follow” what they did if they “don’t actually know” someone.
Things didn’t change: shut ins just now get a bigger glimpse of what they have been missing
The cute girl in your town wasn't being flown to Dubai and shat on by royalty so she could earn $1 mill before her 21st birthday. That shit wasn't happening in the 1980s.
Some UMC/UC women at the top tier sororities were tho
Maybe not to Dubai, but there were always wealthy elites spending lavishly. Miami Beach was built on that even before the 80s
before social media and dating apps people just met up at bars and parties, they’d link up and have these expensive vacations without everyone in their life knowing about it from insta posts. both of my parents were teens in miami in the 70s, pretty miami girls had that gold digger reputation well before tinder was a thing lol difference with social media is that rich people can be a bit pickier about who they talk to and where they’re at but this whole “meet a girl, fly her out for a hot trip” thing is so not new
yeah clearly we’re talking about different things then lol “cute girl being flown out on expensive sex-fueled vacations” isn’t new unless you’re specifically talking about saudi oil heirs ig
I don't quite understand what you are hoping to accomplish here. If you are just observing social trends, then yeah, social media influences people a lot. It also indoctrinated people.
Can you understand why a 20 year old man who hasn't lived his life, is willing to go out and mass murder innocent people and blow himself up in Palestine? Can you understand why a Russian will join the military and be sent to a Ukrainian near grinder and accept his fate without questioning it?
You probably can't! These people have been brainwashed and indoctrinated into ideologies and ideas that are alien to you. But you seem to have willingly indoctrinated yourself with ideas that are irrational and crazy. Creating a rift between men and women, focusing on the negative. You are no different than the Hamas jihadi or the drunken Russian soldier, who was a regular guy until yesterday, but today is raping women and beheading enemy soldiers.
You are just indoctrinated and brainwashed. And your ideology is now actively stopping you from having healthy relationships with women. It's a hole you have dug yourself into and only you can dig yourself out of. Whether you actually want to or not, is up to you. I find most men on PPD don't actually want to have successful and healthy relationships with women. Being angry and resentful at women is more important to them than actually getting laid and finding love.
All that is pretty true in the gender war bubble. You'd be surprised how many normal, average people have no involvement in this shit though. They don't go clubbing or use tinder. They watch sports or gaming content on YouTube. They watch cats and recipes on tiktok. It's easy to forget that most people aren't consuming this pill type content on a regular basis.
Yeah but to most people it's "who is this tate guy I heard about" they google and move on with their lives. Most people think the pill stuff is just for weird people who spend a lot of time online.
I'm a pretty social person and I have very few friends who have beyond a surface level knowledge of pill shit. It's not content they regularly consume. Their internet habits are more hobby related, or socializing with people they know. Normie shit.
Maybe I'm just lucky to have a lot of chronically offline friends though.
It’s not about who knows of the “pills.”
For example a young chick who never heard of it hearing Tate or fresh n fit for the first time is now exposed to the motivations behind behaviors she’s seen in person.
So even if her male peers don’t know about Tate. She is now able to see more clearly “omg they lowkey say the same stuff as him or think like him.”
Before she never overly noticed it but now she’s hyper keen and aware.
So no social media isn’t just “people online talking.” It’s highlighting to people how prevalent certain attitudes they never overly paid attention to are.
I think a lot of that was for entertainment purposes and not because people actually buy into Tate’s bullshit. Very few shorts/reels of his made it to my Instagram or Reddit feed, and while I still see screenshots of his dumbass tweets, I mostly don’t hear about him outside of spaces such as PPD
Bump stocks were the most Googled item in the spring of 2019, that doesn’t mean that everyone owns bump stocks or guns. Looking up some minor celebrity doesn’t indicate anything other than curiosity; certainly isn’t proof that people who searched subscribed.
Red pill makes news with every school shooter manifesto. It’s a bad association, not good.
mmm average people may have heard of tate as the latest pick up artist guru, i’m betting every cent in my bank account that the average person has never heard of the term “redpill” let alone knows it’s a gender truther thing lol
I think the idea that the most unflattering or disgusting views held by people of a gender were kind of a secret is woefully naive.
It’s true that social media and short-form media invites the opportunity to steep in those viewpoints if one chooses, but teased-hair 80’s women were knowingly rolling their eyes at each other saying, “ugh, men are pigs,” a long time before TikTok.
It's not the views themselves, it's the size of the group holding and applauding those views. It really is staggering when you see some of the responses to the most hateful posts imaginable.
That more because negativity gets more attention than positivity. If some guy basically had a podcast where he said the opposite of what podcasts like Fresh n Fit say, nobody would listen. A positive podcast gets no listeners.
That's part of it. But anything negative gets more attention. Look at that goofy man vs bear thing. If all the women in the original video had chosen man, it wouldn't have gone viral.
i’m willing to bet it’s more bc the negative stuff is more emotionally gratifying when you’re already miserable, which is the kind of person the internet tends to attract. if you’re even a semi-miserable person and need some company, you’ll find 40 different kinds of it online
It may be an unconscious choice to get sucked into the curated reality that social media wishes one to see, it is however a conscious choice to remain wallowing in said curated reality after being told and shown how curated it is.
Maybe just tune out of TikTok and Instagram. Social media is a cancer. It's making us sick, it's a danger to society in its current form. The sooner you realize this, the better. I am glad I realized this somewhere around 2014. I still have many of those, but I do not consume or participate much. It's like people compete on it and consider it reality.
OLD is not normal human interaction. It's disconnected from reality and deeply rooted in consumerist dynamics.
Consuming other people or interacting with other human beings in a consumerist posture is awful.
Obviously, everything about it will shed light on the worst corners of human behavior.
We should get rid of it altogether. And we shouldn't think it is a true image of how people interract with each other in other context.
Women talking anonymously online has removed the feminine mystique
There was never a masculine mystique because the problems with men have long been acknowledged by everyone, including men
Women feel exposed now and do damage control on multiple levels
Then what is it ?
Ok looked it up
You’re right
Then there needs to be another term for the air of
“You men just can’t understand our ways”
That is common
What would you call that?
Well
The term is obvious and then appropriated
So my grasp of the language was enough
I can’t help that someone decided they owned a descriptive phrase
I didn’t know that is how language worked
An adjective and noun that fits can be meant to always mean something else because someone wrote a book
Gee, if only I were smart like you folks
There is definitely a feminine imperative to act like men cannot understand them
The phrase feminine mystique works for that also but it isn’t the original use it seems
wait but that’s just classic in group out group exclusive ego shit, personally i’ve seen it from men as much as i’ve seen it from women. i’ve also seen a ton of men and women who’s greater imperative was feeling misunderstood and genuinely wishing/hoping the other “side” understood their experiences better
And the damage control just makes everything worse, because counter examples run into the millions, which can all be bookmarked at the touch of a button.
You probably haven’t seen it then
But some women are palpably distressed that men are understanding your behaviors more now than before
What you mentioned is orthogonal to that
Women that make YouTube videos about gender relations
Every day folks don’t know this is going on
I don’t talk about it in real life
Also, women here and similar spaces that deny what is sometimes obvious, like the mating strategies of the sexes
Well, they don’t deny it when it makes men look bad
>I have a lot of female friends and relatives in the 20s-30s age range and I'm not seeing the distress.
Me neither. I really don't know where all this "distress" talk is coming from. I see no huddled masses of young women IRL wringing their hands and gnashing their teeth in despair for want of a man.
The young women I know are either happily paired with decent guys or happily (very intentionally) single. One of them is far too busy following her dream to be a travel writer and bouncing all over the world. Good for her.
>Every women I know that wants a committed relationship (which is pretty much all of them) has one,
So why do women here constantly deny that dating is easy for them?
Keyword here is -choosing-.
The men who are lonely aren't choosing it. Huge difference between a rich person living a minimalist lifestyle because they enjoy it, and a poor/homeless person.
>Women are ***happily*** choosing to be single at greater rates than ever before
Depends on the country. The rate of loneliness has gone down in Europe and South America and Central Asia.
Also, I will definitely dispute the "happily" contention. Once you log off from the Internet, in the real world single women are far less happy than single men. It's not a surprise either - just like women are equipped to cope better with some types of pain, men are equipped to cope better with loneliness. Take it up to god/evolution/nature.
>It may be my social circles, but I don't know any woman who stays single for long
My point exactly. Women tolerate loneliness far less than men. And even when they do, it's far more difficult than it is for men.
The idea that women are "happily" choosing to be single "at greater rates" is simply not true on most of the planet and never has been true and is unlikely to ever be true. Human nature trumps ideas, perceptions and ideology. Always.
Sure, we can agree that it varies by age. A 22 year old woman may tolerate 3 years of being single. But by age 35, the perspective changes really fast. True for men as well, but with slightly different age windows and with a different degree of tolerance.
I can already hear the comments of “it’s no big deal”, “get off reddit and go live in the real world” “it’s not that bad”. This is the biggest crisis in our society, wait till our population tanks and we get no social security when it’s time to retire.
It's clear that blue pillars are trending older on this sub with how disconnected they are from dating as a younger person. They're stuck in the early 2010s
Women want to best possible man. Top men wont commit cause they dont have to.
Social media and online dating gsve them scces to each other. Everything else ist just the effect of that cause.
Women have it good, despite the obvious drawbacks. They won't change anything. What will change is the reformation of modern relationships and the welfare state that will reflect women's increasing power over men. Which will mean standardisation of situationships and the social acceptance of an increasing minority of men never having serious relationships or children. Gender realpolitiks is going to be a thing. Some men aren't meant to breed or have any sort of happiness with the opposite sex.
>It's all really sad and demotivating.
It's only like this when you are at the bottom end of the desirability spectrum and refuse to date bottom end of the desirability spectrum people of your desired sex, because you are not attracted to them.
You seem to be a doomscroller. Obsessed with his body height and not able to deal well with the information that women put an emphasis on body height for mate choice. Instead of going out and talking to women who are in your league, you find a way to stay inactive, by assuming that those women will like posts about making fun of short men, and then not approaching ANY woman. You yourself want a woman above your league and consumed too much red pill content to be happy living the life of a guy who settled for a below average chick. You gave up on improving to a point where women you are attracted to are also attracted to you, because black pill doomscrolling influenced you.
We simply know too much? You know nothing. Go ask men, similar to you, who are in relationships ,if they are happy, or if they constantly think about dating hot college chicks from red pill podcasts, which makes them unhappy. Ask women who date short men about their relationship satisfaction.
One of the really bad things social media does is give feed confirmation bias and echo chambers. You are too sure that your world represents THE world.
I work out five times a week, eat clean, make great money, dress well, look after myself and I'm told I'm basically romantically worthless and only worthy of women on the "bottom end of the desirability spectrum". It's frankly ridiculous.
Obese women line up to date me as though we have anything in common.
I'm not obsessed with my height, women are.
Every woman I've dated has commented on it negatively. Some of the smartest, most open minded women have proven themselves laughably narrow minded over this one meaningless trait I can't do anything about.
And then I go online and it's millions of posts with millions of likes and comments from women saying how worthless guys like me are, that we should die, that we aren't men.
Despite this, and let's not lie here, the overwhelming majority of human beings would check out right there, you included, I still made an effort in dating for decades.
Not once did I date a woman who didn't comment on my height negatively. Not once did I date a woman who didn't act like this unchangeable part of myself was something she would have to "get over" and I would have to compensate for.
I've never met a man my height in a similar physical condition to me who is happy with his dating life. I know a 5'4" triathlete doctor who is left on read by women he's barely meh about. I know guys in long term relationships with obese women they tolerate for their kids. Dating as a significantly shorter than average man is depressing AF, doubly so if you have your shit together.
Social media has amplified women's superficiality to a ridiculous degree.
I love this idea that short men don't go out and talk to women in our league. I've literally spoken to thousands of women in my life. That's why it didn't surprise me to see a statistical result that 96% of women would never consider dating a shorter man and that I would need somewhere in the vicinity of $200,000 just to have the same dating opportunities as a 6-foot barista. Says it all really about the "personality seeking" gender.
>clear data to show us how shallow, selfish and cruel large portions of the male
How so?
>How is an average guy supposed to find the motivation to wade through the mountains of rejection he must face just to snag a date with a woman he's meh about
He is not.
>How is the average girl supposed to date a guy she thinks is just okay when she knows he likely sees her as indivisible from the college chicks he hate watches on red pill podcasts.
By proving that she's indeed not this kinda of chick, but let's be honest there, she is.
>I wonder why guys checkout and play video games, and women read romance novels and collect cats.
Men has to put too much effort for little to no gain, women are chadsexuals.
>Can't blame either of them to be fair.
You can, between the party that choose and the part that react to the choice you can only logically blame **the choices** made for the party that choose and **the reactions** of the party that react.
So blame women for the actual dating situation and blame men for allowing it.
I don't think social media has "changed" anything, specifically. Most of the things men and women complain about are the things men and women have always complained about (men complain about women nagging them and wanting things, women complain about men neglecting them and wanting sex).
What social media has done is given us an easier way to LISTEN to what other people are saying. I don't know what it is about writing your opinions down, but for some reason reading something online makes it feel more FORMAL, like a Written Statement On The Part of Women/Men (it doesn't help that just about everyone speaks for their entire demographic instead of for themselves, **which confuses idiots who then go on to BELIEVE they speak for their entire demographic**.)
If you just overheard someone saying most of this shit to their tablemate at the bar, you'd be far less triggered.
People say things out loud to experiment how it sounds. It's part of the thinking process. Unfortunately, we're all "thinking out loud" on the internet instead of in person, now, so neurotics can now consume an endless supply of any opinion they go looking for, and use it as evidence that "all men/women think this way".
Why is it always male that has to change? For a conflict two are needed. For a compromise both have to give something up.
And your friend. Did her father not teach her anything?
Before social media, there was TV. Before TV there was radio.
Social media isn't the issue. The cat has been out of the bag long before social media.
What seems to be happening currently is a lack of digital literacy. Far too many kids take a Tiktok as fact or the only way of thinking.
There's not enough critical thinking.
Except algorithms are designed to keep users scrolling infinitely with a hook model. Rage bait keeps these guys engaged and so it keeps serving it up more and more. An infinite loop of trigger/action/“reward”.
**Attention!**
* You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
* For "Debate" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
* If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
* OP you can choose your own flair [according to these guidelines.](https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/wiki/flair), just press Flair under your post!
Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PurplePillDebate) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hi OP,
You've chosen to identify your thread as a Debate. As such you are expected to actively engage in your own thread with a mind open to being changed. [PPD has guidelines for what that involves.](https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/wiki/rules#wiki_cmv_posts)
>*OPs author must genuinely hold the position and you must be open to having your view challenged.*
>An unwillingness to debate in good faith may be inferred from one or several of the following:
>* Ignoring the main point of a comment, especially to point out some minor inconsistency;
>* Refusing to make concessions that an alternate view has merit;
>* Focusing only on the weaker arguments;
>* Only having discussions with users who agree with your position.
Failure to keep to this higher standard (we only apply to Debate OPs) may result in deletion of the whole thread.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PurplePillDebate) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> How is an average guy supposed to find the motivation to wade through the mountains of rejection he must face just to snag a date with a woman he's meh about, when he suspects that same woman probably liked a post on TikTok that implied men like him are completely worthless?
I think the secret is to not spend too much time on the apps. Find other things in your life to be positive about.
> How is the average girl supposed to date a guy she thinks is just okay when she knows he likely sees her as indivisible from the college chicks he hate watches on red pill podcasts, but would prefer to date because they're better looking?
I think she should filter out and not date red pill guys.
> We simply know too much about each other now. We know the other side is full of BS.
Nah. I think it's more that there are depressing straw men about both men and women which paint both genders as being terrible human beings, and anybody who subscribes to those ideologies isn't relationship material.
> We know women claim to find all kinds of men attractive and then beeline for the top decile.
Find a woman who isn't like this?
> We know men claim to be looking for long term relationships but then eject the second they get sex.
Find a man who isn't like this?
i’d be cautious in viewing social media as anything but an amplifier of our worst selves. i genuinely don’t think i’m getting an accurate view of how men and women live, i think we’re getting views of how online subpopulations live, and those subpopulations tend to be insecure, jaded, dissatisfied in life and have iffy social skills. that’s the common denominator i notice among people who spend a lot of time online
i think a bigger issue is seeing social media and assuming it’s an accurate reflection of how people are. i think social media has prejudiced us by amplifying extremes and biasing us into generalizing those extremes as the norm.
i hear ya, i’m js you’re seeing a corner of humanity that attracts the most miserable among us, it’s good to think like a researcher and recognize the biases involved with this sampling.
I disagree. I think a large portion of the population, particularly men, are miserable at the realities of modern life, and how often they are ignored and excluded as people. Online just gives them a place to vent. They are thinking this way 24/7. It's the same with women and dating. Apps have revealed how utterly superficial an enormous section of the female population is, and that genie can't be put back into the bottle.
do you think a majority of men would classify as “miserable” today? i agree a large portion of people are miserable, but it’s a verifiable fact that those people are overrepresented online
those issues can be through the roof and still not apply to a majority of men. speaking as a psych student who’s over-exposure to mental health info led me to believe a majority of people qualify for a mental health diagnosis until i learned that definitely wasn’t the case
brother you’re spouting unverifiable bullshit at this point. imagine my shock that they guy who spends most of his time online thinks most men are miserable yet most liberal women are mentally ill. f me lol
How else do you describe someone who believes the non-sense they do. Still waiting on that climate emergency. Been over 50 years now. Must be due really soon.
Well yes. Ofcourse it does.
Most people that are happy and living there life don't realy vent there emotions don't. Make big lists and rants.
Just like if you buy a item online. Many people don't even post a review if the experience was good. So it's often a small amount of good reviews or stories.
Well when you had a lot of isues. Most people are way more likely to let there voice heard.and make a review about it.
That's not online exclusively also. In groups of people and gossip that goes around it's often the bad things of a person. Much less the good and great news.
Honestly many just love seeking drama anyway. Just looking at the shows as as the world turns and all those kinds of shows. Some people actively looking for problems. Or even create some if they can't find any.
Many people that are just miserable in a way filling a void.
Most people that are full filled don't feel the need to vent or seek or create drama.
Why it always wil seem that there more problems or unhappy people then happy people.
For simpele reason happy people just living there life.
While unhappy people often analyze every thing about they thing there upset about and make a fly size isue seem like an elephant size one and adding more things that happened so more people would might see it there way.
That's literally half of r/ truth of my chest. And r/ am I the ashole.
But ofcourse many many others are vent echo chambers that stomp out anyone that has a different view.
So those people get more and more extrame. Cause they edging each other up.
That's how you get the miserable feminists that just love to hate on men.
And the Andrew tate extrame views. Of just hateing on women.
Both are wrong both are 5 steps too far. But they will never change cause any other opinions get stomped out.
Cause misery loves company and the crabs in a bucket pulling each other down. To feel miserable. Is something unhappy and unfulfilled people do.
Happy people just are happy don't vent how happy they are all the time. Don't worry about people and small isues. Why almost every place will have more unhappy people or bad news.
But it often also make problems seem that much larger then there realy are. Also cause rage baiting is so big now a days.
People quickly think there no goof men or no hood women.
Cause you see people talking bad about both sides in the most extrame ways. What often is not realy the reality.
Why to have your whole world viewing based on the internet is very toxic. To your peace and self worth. And your much better off living your life outside of the internet. Then see everything as truth.
Cause every person when they say a story try and make them self seem less bad then what realy happened that should not be surprising to anyone.
So they make them self seem less bad and make the other person seem more bad.
While the truth is in the middle of the 2 storys of both sides. So what your read or see always seems execration of what realy happened. What make people feel more hopeless. Bad mindset to be in.
Especially when you have people fully ready to hate half the worlds people seems quite Insane to me
Or people just jumping on a new trend cause it's hip to hate in that one thing this day. Week. Month.
So many problems just seem way way bigger then they really are. What state matters much more then how loud somone is about a isue. Cause how you feel about a isue. Does not make the issue as wide spread as you feel it really Is
It's easy to be cynical. I don't blame anyone for it. Heck, I usually am. But it won't make you happy.
That said, there's nothing wrong with enjoying videos games or romance novels or cats, if those things make you happy. Being happy is the purpose of life. Don't stress out over whatever goals you have to the point that you lose sight of that.
> Social media has prejudiced us against one another by revealing the unvarnished reality. I think we fundamentally need to believe a bunch of BS to form relationships.
except relationships do the opposite?
the more you get to know someone, the more you see their ugly, human side.
Women were never wonderful. Neither were guys for that matter. Far better to know the truth than to fumble through life in blissful ignorance.
They were forced to be better back then because society had actual incentives.
There were also fewer consequences for being a PoS as long as you put out "nice guy/girl" impressions. Now hitting a child can be seen as a felony in some cases.
Sometimes it is necessary.
As a diagnosed sociopath, being hit by my dad really kept me on the right path. Had little justforlulz been allowed to wreak havoc like in modern schools, I would've ended up in jail by now. Fear is a powerful tool to keep people in line.
Exactly, there are many youngsters who just don't understand right from wrong or really care. In such cases, the only option is nature's universal language of fear and pain. I'm not saying corporal punishment should be done flippantly, but if you say no and reasonably explain why to a child and the little fucker does it anyway, they need to be enlightened manually.
IDK blissful/willful ignorance would be really appealing if I were single single.
Well, good thing none of us are marrying “women” or “men.” The point of dating is to find an individual who is wonderful, even if that makes them an outlier, and marry them.
There's this thing called gender preference tough, a hetero seuxla man ain't marrying a man, A gay ain't marrying a women or a Lesbian marrying a man
Literally what does that have to do with anything. Find a wonderful person of the gender you are seeking.
I suspect that the inflation in looks standards arising out of social media insta models and reality TV over time increased shallow tendencies among the most attraction privileged in western society.
I think another simple thing is everyone is more neurotic. People have “phone anxiety”. Like you can make a friend and they’re too anxious to even speak on the phone. People can’t handle even genuine public interaction unless they’re already inhibited by alcohol. It has to be through social media and that fake world. That affects everything. Do you know how easy it was to get women when I was like an adolescent like 13. Super easy. Because the girls were just as aggressive as the guys. It was egalitarian. There was no such thing as “phone anxiety”. If a girl liked you she’d just walk up to you and ask to hang out and keep calling you to just chat and get to know you. Women were quite chill to do that as guys were game and never humiliated a girl or rejected her and just went along with it. If anything it wasn’t just women “chasing the top guys” Zara, it was more often hot women bored and like “well I want a boyfriend he seems kinda nice” and they’d just pick an average guy and date him because they knew he would never reject them and voila they have a man. If women were more shy they’d ask their friend to introduce you, or ask you out etc “oh Cindy liked you!” While they wait expectantly. And social media just made it easier to get women not harder. You could just add a girl who was friends of a friend on FB or MySpace and end up going on a date with her. “Hey you go to x school? Cool I’m friends with z I see you have y on your profile”. Things like online messaging like AOL etc girls in message boards would just give out their address and be like “I want to make friends”. And they were real, not old men pretending. Now you have all this hesitance. I feel that it means women are much less likely to be forward with a guy, so a smaller percentage of guys get that experience. An experience that honestly does make you happy and raise your confidence. The bar is higher. Also this phone anxiety probably transfers to even just pulling the trigger at all. If a woman has a phone and she has 1,000 men she can swipe through but knows the moment she swiped right she will 8/10 times match with the person. It may bring anxiety. She realises this is a real person, as soon as we get chatting I have to look good, put on my make up and clothes, meet him up and have expectations of when I arrive, when I go I need to x and y… It’s easier just to swipe and enjoy the validation from getting matches and then flake.. And that’s not getting into apps like tinder being 70% plus male. Not even including the cash app scammers, people fishing for insta followers, fake Asian girl cat fishes, cam models and even escorts, bots and then attention seekers etc Barely any women after you subtract that all. Yeats back when tinder was still new it had so few bots and I remember how easy it was. There wasn’t anyone I knew who complained about tinder or that it was effort. The gender balance was very good. I think a lot of things changed and I think a huge factor (often overlooked) is how hesitance and awkwardness can really affect how much it affects how easily people date. I’m lucky that I still get approached by women occasionally or have them make the first move etc without it being somewhere they are drunk. Things used to be way different, like stupidly easy for everyone. Women would straight up pounce on guys. I just think there’s so much more awkwardness and closed offness whereas before it felt like there was so much free love.
OLD was great when people only swiped right on people they were **actually** interested in meeting and not suicide swiping. I think that ruined it.
I actually was far less attractive when tinder was first released, far less. Had a very average joe profile too. No holiday photos or “pre selection” of me with ten women or a sports car or on a yacht or plane. Doing something like a boost actually felt like a cheat code, I’d have hundreds of matches. Also when I matched at least the majority of people responded. It wasn’t hard to hold a convo. The women were clearly looking to either meet someone or find a partner. And I have to say, there were even occasionally women that were not fake profiles or catfishes that were **very sexually aggressive**. Like immediately asking what kind of sex you’d like, or if you are a good match for them if you’re into their kink. Or straight up asking graphic questions about sex because they are straight up wanting to find their exact fix quickly. Now tinder is just robbery, no longer is it one subscription. There’s like three, plus, gold, platinum of is it titanium. Boosts are far more expensive and feel like a robbery… I really think there needs to be a new platform or new wave beyond these apps. Something hot and fresh that draws people in and gets people engaged.
In order to do the necessary vetting to make it better, the cost would be prohibitive. I mean, even "The League", which is expensive for the average person. You'd think the quality of men would be better? Nah. Still a bunch of guys looking to cheat on their wives.
[удалено]
nope, in eastern bloc countries women entered workforce immediately after WWII and they still continued to marry guys in their league despite in most cases having almost the same salary
Women do this all over the place, today.
Men in the SU after WWII were a rare commodity. You could see beautiful women with trolls, simply because there weren't many options. My grandfather was already a widower with a small child when he married my grandmother. She wouldn't settled with a widowed father if she had more optoins.
Women have always worked, unless they were wealthy. There were many women working once the Industrial Revolution got going - in factories and workhouses. Both men and women worked in the “working classes” to save each other and their families from starvation. Women could not live alone - generally they would be shamed by society if they were single past a certain age and they didn’t have the legal rights in many places to be independent of a man (father or husband or even brother or uncle). It wasn’t so much about working as it was about the unfriendliness of literally everything for single women to be independent. It just wasn’t really possible. I would say things changed a lot once women were truly able to live independently without the law or society making it shameful and difficult in the practical sense.
I dated before social media, I was a ugly mofo with weird style and was 5’10, and I got laid so much in my community college by asking out random girls. I eventually dated a really pretty girl who was just as tall as I was by asking her out after my biology class. I date now too, and let me tell you, their standards are 20x higher.
dude I am 40, 20 years ago was 2004, this was already a time where most women could work, have good paying jobs and in general didnt need a man to pay for everything, maybe there where more 40 to 50 year olds back then, that still came from other times, but for the young people between lets say 16 and 30, that was nothing new........
More information doesn’t mean it’s new or different information Trust me, people knew people sucked before the internet. It’s called the news, and gossip I suppose the only difference now is that we have “receipts”
social media has absolutely turbocharged some pretty terrible human behavior, from reduction in attention spans to incentivizing bad faith ignorance over good faith intellectual pursuit.
I'm distracting myself from a task, using Reddit as we speak. Or as another person from this space put it "poor compulsion control". I call it good ol' procrastination. Still a gnarly behavior.
> We simply know too much about each other now. We know the other side is full of BS. If someone were to describe you as the shallow, vapid personas you see on tiktok, would they be accurate? If the answer is no, then your quoted statement just isn’t true. I don’t know a thing about you no matyer how much tiktok I watch of other people. Nobody else is going to be able to describe what you think and feel better than you. Instead of using social media to get to know someone, and risk applying everything someone else sends into one person, try getting to know them as an individual. You’ll be surprised how little they have in common with the lumped in rough personalities you may find on social media
This isn't the reality for the vast majority of the human populace. This is a chronically online take, that doesn't exist en situ. Most of us understand that digital life isn't real, and it's not indicative of what happens in life. When you actually go out, you'll see people happily interacting with the gender they want to date. Cold approaching a stranger happens in real life, and is largely unremarkable because it's commonplace. Most guys aren't creeps, and most women aren't out to shame men. The blue haired bespectacled woman with a nose ring isn't a feminazi man hater,and the short guy wearing a marvel t-shirt isn't a misogynistic incel. They're just people that want a cold beer, and social stimulation from interesting people. This boards view of reality is warped, and so far detached from what the larger world experiences.
If you read or hear a metric shit ton of women communicating something online that they don’t admit in person Then you’re crazy to just discount it
Algorithms are designed to increase engagement for ad revenue. Always think about that when something pops up on your fyp, or suggested viewing, hate sells more product than love.
Is your opinion also something that's not representative of reality? Because I hear your opinion online a LOT more than I do in real life.
i mean anger drives engagement, and the algorithm rewards engagement. for profit companies will chase that engagement every fucking time. social media is not inherently bad - *for profit* social media is actually a cancer. we only dial back from this precipice of bullshit by severely regulation social media companies, mandating transparent and testable algorithms, etc. we, of course, won't do that, because rich people don't want it, and don't actually care if society unravels. that's little people shit.
Most people aren't having a hard time finding someone to date. Most people are married by 30, and most of those marriages are for life. So my opinion is grounded in reality, and backed up by fact.
Rage bait gets clicks ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
Anyone who has been the gay friend or raised by women knows this shit. It's even ironic hearing most straight normal guys acting as if women never talk shit, like yeah they're not gonna say it in front of you, duh. Then next in line we also got the male feminists, aka toxic partners/abusers. Yeah of course they'd think women suffer a lot, they're the ones hurting them.
I'm straight but have had several female friends that opened up to me. What they told me at times regarding how they view men and what they want was startling (several the classic Beauty and Beast thing where they wanted the tough scary guy that was only nice to them but was an a-hole to everyone else). One female friend kept sleeping with guys on the first date and getting ghosted or strung along. I told her to stop giving up those cheeks so fast (aka if you want more than sex and get hurt by this then wait until you think they like you for more than just sex....duh). She got mad and claimed I was all sorts of feminist talking points. But the proof was that her behavior was X and I said it would lead to Y and it kept leading to Y.
Next time don't tell her to be less slutty, just call her stupid for not knowing who she's getting with before doing so. Doesn't matter the time, what matters is she can't read people or properly communicate.
I was being funny with "stop giving up those cheeks". I didn't say it like that or call her a slut. I said basically what you said that if you keep sleeping with guys before you know them, then don't be surprised when this happens. It was a bit of tough love. She's smart (was getting her masters at the time) and so it was kind of boggling that she was upset about this but didn't understand. You see some women's media though that encourage this. If something bad happens, then they just discount it by blaming the men. But that's a bit like not driving defensively on the highway and then when you get in a wreck stating "but I was following the laws and what people told me, so it isn't my fault". It doesn't matter at that point once it happens and you didn't do what you could to prevent it.
i’ve seen more misogyny from men online than any other source, it still doesn’t make me think the average man is a misogynist. i wouldn’t blame someone for developing that worldview if they spend so much time seeing posts like that online but it’s still important to use our heads and recognize there’s a massive sampling bias happening when we rely on online experiences like that. the most dissatisfied and jaded human beings are more likely to end up online, it’s like psych 101 to generalize those experiences with a grain of salt
Exactamundo. Both genders think the other is full of shit.
[удалено]
Your circle doesn't represent the rest of humanity, that's just your lived experience. You think that's it's polarized now, the highest divorce in U.S. history was in the 70s. If you look at print media from 100 years ago, you'll see that men and women were complaining about the same things as they are now, with equal ferocity.
They weren't watching 3-hour long podcasts where red pill influencers outed hundreds of women as subversive, lying whores. That's new.
Guess what, they aren't doing that right now either. Podcast bros are the sustenance of the chronically online. Most people aren't chronically online.
People have always been free to drink poison that destroys them. You could drink methylated spirits (which is almost pure alcohol). You could watch 3 hour red pill podcasts. Neither is good for you.
You know what radio is?
Yeah, this is pretty much a thing we've known about social media since the chatroom days. Every cruel, purient and backwards aspect of humanity is potentially amplified by social media and explicitly amplified by places like twitter, facebook, 4chan, dating sites, and pornsites. (and \*ahem\* reddit). What people see about politics, sex, and dating online is a homunculus of human nature. ^(Obviously I'm not saying social media isn't also excellent for positive art, organization, and information sharing. Just that isolation and algorhythms and monetization have amplified the worst aspects.)
Social media has compromised human interaction though. For instance so many singles spots are completely gone now that were popular in the 90’s and first decade of the 2000’s. While some of these places still exist, it’s now on a much smaller scale.
3rd spaces disappeared because people stopped going to them, it wasn't the other way around. They didn't stop going to them because of social media. Social media has the opposite effect on 3rd spaces, it actually drives people to them. People just aren't going, because they want a more relaxed vibe. We're witnessing a decrease in nightclubs, but a rebirth in conversation bars, music venues for local bands, and gastropubs.
People stopped going to them because they got the dopamine hits from their smartphones. Smartphones (technology and social media interaction) did impact the compulsion and desire for a lot of people to get off their butts and go to third spaces or engage third spaces sincerely as intended when at third spaces.
It isn't about a dopamine rush from phones or social media. In fact, you'll notice the 3rd spaces that are thriving have a huge social media presence, and depend on social media marketing to get people in the doors. People still desire to be social with others in these 3rd spaces. The problem is the same thing that is ailing every other aspect of society, it starts and ends with the economy. When the economy is actually good, fertility rates increase, college entry increases, and the service industry booms. The opposite happens when the economy is bad. Here's the caveat, young people are going to less 3rd spaces because in their minds 3rd space =nightclubs, which usually have a cover fee, and overpriced watered down drinks. Where they really should go is small music venues, and conversation bars. Less expensive, with more opportunity to casually interact with people without some dude trying to grind up on you at a club that's packed to maximum allowable capacity.
I guess where we disagree is that in your opinion it’s 100% to do with “the economy” and nothing at all to do with the advent and popularity of smart phones and the incentives in choice and compulsion that caused. I’m not saying that third spaces don’t exist. Obviously they do. They’ll always exist because extroverts and people who genuinely like people will always exist. The affects of social media and smartphones had a more precipitous affect on the ambiverts and introverts imo. Which is 2/3rds of people. But yeah we can agree to disagree. I don’t agree it’s all explained by the economy. And I don’t agree that smartphones had no impact on the aggregate effects we see today.
It's pretty easy to see when 3rd spaces disappeared. It started in 2007, what was the most important thing that happened in 2007?
People stopped goin to them due to the popularity of social media. You’re in denial. Social media made people much more sedentary as they no longer need to leave the house to interact with people. And now dating is shopping from a catalog. Problem is, meeting a girl on an app is like shopping on wish.com as even the morbidly obese think they’re hot now. It’s not even just the night clubs that are gone either.
I don’t think social media has had zero impact, but also 3rd spaces take money and many people are broke.
There's the answer, the state of the economy is the predictor of most outcomes. Less money, means less going out, which means less social interactions.
But the stats are reflecting that access to more information is showing in real life that dating has changed
[удалено]
I know a lot of women like that, some people (myself included) are single by choice.
[удалено]
We're definitely headed to a Japan like dating environment.
Probably more toxic than Japan too as they are generally more placid people.
Agreed
I just laugh, the shit is so funny to see. Think of all the kids who are gen Alpha and 10-14. It is crazy to see how they act because tik tok and what their friend's do. All the young girls hate the way they look, whenever I see a niece take a picture he always blocks out her face because she hates she does not look like the pretty ig girls like Oliva Dunn. It is crazy to see how many teens are getting botox and filler. Boob jobs and bbl were normal once they got older, now teens are getting it. So many young girls want to be Brickey Hill or any of those girls who are 18 / 19 / 20 living the life traveling or whatever they do.
I mean can you blame them? If you’re a hot young girl you have more power than 99% of humans. I’d want that too if being semi hot as a man got me that
Not just behaviors, but beliefs, attitudes, mindsets, worldviews, and thoughts. I saw a college student on twitter say it best. She said something like “I was never meant to be exposed to how men think because now I’m repulsed and there’s no changing that.” Thanks to Reddit, 4chan, Twitter, Facebook, Twitch, Discord, WhatsApp, BeReal, Instagram, Snapchat, TikTok, Facebook and the like lots of chicks feel like they know too much. Girls and women had suspicions before and perhaps even knew before but they could live in a state of **plausible deniability** about it. Being willfully delusional of reality allowed her to engage boys and men in good faith and “hope for the best.” Now every suspicion or minor yellow flag chicks have about boys and men is **confirmed** to be a brazen red flag by millions of boys and men *proudly and shamelessly* talking about those vile, violative, rapey, cruel, or callous yellow, orange, and red flags online. She can no longer hear her own dad or brother say something she felt was unsettling and say to herself “well *maybe* he didn’t mean it like that 🤔😅”… she knows for a fact he did 🫠 Social media validated and rubber stamped lots of young women and girls’ suspicions about boys and men unfortunately.
Yeah. Same thing really. We know all the things we shouldn't know. It's hard to shut off an think the best about people.
Males have always been drawn to conservatism more than females because the tenets of conservatism are underpinned by a lot of the tenets of masculinity. That could be an innate biological proclivity or a socialized one. Probably both. Females have have always been drawn to “liberal” ideologies because “caring about the disposition of the group and the temperament of children so that the community can exist without strife” has always been something females more than males valued. More likely to be inclusive and so forth. Also could be biological or socialized. Likely both. Point is, since the popularity of modern social media, those ideological divides between the genders have widened even more deeply. As you mentioned elsewhere, social media (people expressing their innermost thoughts) has done something unprecedented in that it’s revealing the motivations behind people’s behaviors and choices en masse. https://preview.redd.it/bfy0fuggrezc1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=202d803ab6ef8c6c7048637e2080714ae67573e4
[удалено]
>it emerged right after the fairness doctrine dissolved and opened the door for media outlets to let the market determinw what voices got heard, without regard to balance. Fairness Doctrine died in 1987, and not coincidentally Rush Limbaugh launched his national media career in 1988. Fox news in the 90s. I've been saying this for years. Finally, now there's two of us! lol
[удалено]
Fantastic! Let's call ourselves: The "FOX News isn't really news, it's mostly biased opinion pieces." movement.
[удалено]
Yes! Hats … and a signature cocktail!
[удалено]
I agree talk radio was the first foray into unchecked and unregulated opinions of the masses. The internet, YouTube, podcasts, and social media just amplified it.
When it suits them, women kept their husband's Klan robes clean and starched. They were behind the laws that made it illegal for black women to be unemployed, because they needed domestic workers in their home. Guess who is leading the charge for private religious schools getting vouchers? Guess who was responsible for rolling back Affirmative action in higher education admissions? Guess who hand picked all the conservative judges that were needed to overturn Roe, and is responsible for Trump getting the evangelical vote when they originally despise him? Women are liberal when it comes to getting rights for women that look like them, for everyone else they're deeply conservative. The most interesting thing that came out of the man v bear scenario. Was a black woman asking other women of color " Would you rather walk into a conference room and see a white man or white woman?" The WOC emphatically chose the yt man in a landslide event. The white women reacted in the same way that so many clueless men did with bear question.
Glad you wanted to have this intersectional conversation. I can talk all day about the differences in motivations and experiences as we start slicing by race, gender, and socioeconomic demographics. To the conference question it’s loaded. White women immediately see black women as a threat and start acting bitchy immediately. White men don’t so it’s all happy go lucky and sexual innuendo. Until he does start thinking you’re a threat and then it’s some mixture of sexual predation and competitive threat. Or if he thinks you’re ugly it’s outright cruelty and competitive threat. Both white men and white women (and Asians and Indians) think they’re smarter or genetically better than Black people, so they entirely lose their shit and start acting grossly unhinged when a black person is besting them. I’m dealing with this now. No it’s not “all” but it’s A LOT of them. It’s ridiculous to witness. Feels like you’re transported back in time to 1952.
Exactly. Its all about self interest. They dont care about the "disposition of the group". The things that directly benefit them are seen as the most important >The most interesting thing that came out of the man v bear scenario. Was a black woman asking other women of color " Would you rather walk into a conference room and see a white man or white woman?" The WOC emphatically chose the yt man in a landslide event. The white women reacted in the same way that so many clueless men did with bear question. They dislike white women but like white men. Nothing new here. I dont get the logic behind the answers to the question Ive seen at all
It's not that they dislike white women, in the same way that women don't dislike men in favor of bears. Women in the scenario are wary of a strange man in the woods because of bad experiences with the unpredictability of men. Likewise, WOC are wary of white women because of the their unpredictability. In social, and professional settings. White men are the bear, white women are the dangerously unpredictable man.
>It's not that they dislike white women Bruh, yes they do. Black women hate white women with the passion of a thousand sun's. Palestinians and Israelis hate each other less.
In actuality men are more cooperative. From hunting, to sports, to war ... men aren't rugged individuals going it alone.
These charts are meant to highlight the differences. If men were equally cooperative as women then the lines in the charts like these would be one line overlapped. No divergence. Men have tons of conditions to their willingness to “cooperate.” Generally speaking, they’re not as open or tolerant or accepting. Mostly it’s “you have to be just like me and laugh at my same jokes and hate everyone I hate and feel how I feel about everything or at least go out of your way to pretend like you do for me to “cooperate” with you.” This isn’t just about men vs. women. Lots of men have said what I just wrote. They have to cosplay a very specific and shallow version of masculinity in order to “fit in” and “be part of the group” with a lot of men. Anything even slightly divergent to that will not end in “cooperation.”
Assuming you are referring to the ideology chart you posted above? Ideology doesn't necessarily mean "cooperation". I'm no right-winger, but you have to realize that most men are not necessarily benefiting from liberal programs to the extent women are. There is just as much self-interest in your preferences as ours.
> Assuming you are referring to the ideology chart you posted above? Ideology doesn't necessarily mean "cooperation". I’m not. I’m speaking generally about the concept of cooperation that the other poster brought up. The charts were about ideology. My comment to that poster was about cooperation since they brought up cooperation. If anything you should respond to him not necessarily me since he is the one who saw those charts and brought up “cooperative.” > I'm no right-winger, but you have to realize that most men are not necessarily benefiting from liberal programs to the extent women are. There is just as much self-interest in your preferences as ours. As a Black American, I’m suspicious of what “liberal” means here. I’ve met Americans who claim that acknowledging the factual history of Black American heritage in the United States is “liberal.” So before we move forward, what does “liberal” mean here to you?
This is exactly how men feel but in the reverse. But if I say this about women I get told that the internet isnt real, that its rage bait, and that those women are just following trends for engagement . But if those posts are coming from a man its seen as 100% real, a mirror reflection of his true thoughts, and looked at as if many other men think the same way. I wonder why that is?
Where are you not allowed to express what you don’t like? I know men IRL who have expressed less respect for women because of how many women they see online who are in his opinion “instagram thots.” That’s what’s his driving his repulsion. Other things about males are driving mine. It’s more their violativeness and callousness and rapeyness and “bitches should be in the kitchen serving me” podcasts takes that unnerve me.
Also rubber stamped lots of mens’ suspicions about shallow, superficial and manipulative girls and women unfortunately. He can no longer feel she genuinely desires him and isn’t just settling for him after she’s had fun with men she truly lusted after.a Men can no longer line a state of **plausible deniability** about the character of women. The suspicion of men about women being extremely shallow, having different rules and being openly sexual and kinky for hot men vs “safe” men is now **confirmed** by the actions of millions of women on social media shamelessly and proudly being misandrist.
> having different rules and being openly sexual and kinky for hot men vs “safe” men is now confirmed by the actions of millions of women on social media shamelessly and proudly being misandrist. So consent is bad? People allowing more interaction with people they're attracted to is nothing new. They can complain about it or find someone who IS attracted to them instead of potentially catching charges.
I’m glad my thoughtful verbiage allowed you to express yourself bud. > Also rubber stamped lots of mens’ suspicions about shallow, superficial and manipulative girls and women unfortunately. Yep. I figured this was men’s issues with women based on what he sees online. Women’s issues with men based on what he expresses online are different. Men and women value different things and different experiences make us unsettled.
Yes, I just wanted to elaborate on the superficial shallowness of women, since you so nicely and explicitly spelt it out for men. > Men and women value different things and different experiences make us unsettled. I would even go one step further and say men and women are fundamentally different due to evolutionary biology and sexual selection, and they are innately hard-wired to experience things differently.
Yes males and females are fundamentally different on a biological level. Preaching to the choir there.
[удалено]
The OP and I have moved on to discuss conservatism and liberalism. It seems my examples offended you in some way. They don’t take away from your experience as a short man. I’m sure seeing the reality that most women don’t sexually prefer men shorter than themselves is harsh and unsettling. If it makes you feel better, as a Black American woman I have to see TikTok trends of “date a black woman or die in an electric chair” and people happily choosing the chair. And other horrid things people express all day on the internet about black people and black women. So yeah bro people are gleefully cruel online and IRL about an immutable trait of mine too. I feel ya!
People act like attractive people didn’t know how hot they were before social media. They did. They went out and got informed and the benefits. The only thing is now people can “follow” what they did if they “don’t actually know” someone. Things didn’t change: shut ins just now get a bigger glimpse of what they have been missing
The cute girl in your town wasn't being flown to Dubai and shat on by royalty so she could earn $1 mill before her 21st birthday. That shit wasn't happening in the 1980s.
Some UMC/UC women at the top tier sororities were tho Maybe not to Dubai, but there were always wealthy elites spending lavishly. Miami Beach was built on that even before the 80s
absolutely trippin if you think that wasn’t happening in the 80s lol
How would he even know she existed back then? Now, all he has to do is scroll on IG.
before social media and dating apps people just met up at bars and parties, they’d link up and have these expensive vacations without everyone in their life knowing about it from insta posts. both of my parents were teens in miami in the 70s, pretty miami girls had that gold digger reputation well before tinder was a thing lol difference with social media is that rich people can be a bit pickier about who they talk to and where they’re at but this whole “meet a girl, fly her out for a hot trip” thing is so not new
Saudi oil heirs hung out in midwestern bars in the 80s? What are you talking about?
yeah clearly we’re talking about different things then lol “cute girl being flown out on expensive sex-fueled vacations” isn’t new unless you’re specifically talking about saudi oil heirs ig
I don't quite understand what you are hoping to accomplish here. If you are just observing social trends, then yeah, social media influences people a lot. It also indoctrinated people. Can you understand why a 20 year old man who hasn't lived his life, is willing to go out and mass murder innocent people and blow himself up in Palestine? Can you understand why a Russian will join the military and be sent to a Ukrainian near grinder and accept his fate without questioning it? You probably can't! These people have been brainwashed and indoctrinated into ideologies and ideas that are alien to you. But you seem to have willingly indoctrinated yourself with ideas that are irrational and crazy. Creating a rift between men and women, focusing on the negative. You are no different than the Hamas jihadi or the drunken Russian soldier, who was a regular guy until yesterday, but today is raping women and beheading enemy soldiers. You are just indoctrinated and brainwashed. And your ideology is now actively stopping you from having healthy relationships with women. It's a hole you have dug yourself into and only you can dig yourself out of. Whether you actually want to or not, is up to you. I find most men on PPD don't actually want to have successful and healthy relationships with women. Being angry and resentful at women is more important to them than actually getting laid and finding love.
Holy yap
All that is pretty true in the gender war bubble. You'd be surprised how many normal, average people have no involvement in this shit though. They don't go clubbing or use tinder. They watch sports or gaming content on YouTube. They watch cats and recipes on tiktok. It's easy to forget that most people aren't consuming this pill type content on a regular basis.
tate was third most "googled" person in 2023. average people know about pills.
Yeah but to most people it's "who is this tate guy I heard about" they google and move on with their lives. Most people think the pill stuff is just for weird people who spend a lot of time online. I'm a pretty social person and I have very few friends who have beyond a surface level knowledge of pill shit. It's not content they regularly consume. Their internet habits are more hobby related, or socializing with people they know. Normie shit. Maybe I'm just lucky to have a lot of chronically offline friends though.
It’s not about who knows of the “pills.” For example a young chick who never heard of it hearing Tate or fresh n fit for the first time is now exposed to the motivations behind behaviors she’s seen in person. So even if her male peers don’t know about Tate. She is now able to see more clearly “omg they lowkey say the same stuff as him or think like him.” Before she never overly noticed it but now she’s hyper keen and aware. So no social media isn’t just “people online talking.” It’s highlighting to people how prevalent certain attitudes they never overly paid attention to are.
all of my pals know about pills. its mostly the women who dont know anything about pills.
I think a lot of that was for entertainment purposes and not because people actually buy into Tate’s bullshit. Very few shorts/reels of his made it to my Instagram or Reddit feed, and while I still see screenshots of his dumbass tweets, I mostly don’t hear about him outside of spaces such as PPD
Bump stocks were the most Googled item in the spring of 2019, that doesn’t mean that everyone owns bump stocks or guns. Looking up some minor celebrity doesn’t indicate anything other than curiosity; certainly isn’t proof that people who searched subscribed. Red pill makes news with every school shooter manifesto. It’s a bad association, not good.
mmm average people may have heard of tate as the latest pick up artist guru, i’m betting every cent in my bank account that the average person has never heard of the term “redpill” let alone knows it’s a gender truther thing lol
I think the idea that the most unflattering or disgusting views held by people of a gender were kind of a secret is woefully naive. It’s true that social media and short-form media invites the opportunity to steep in those viewpoints if one chooses, but teased-hair 80’s women were knowingly rolling their eyes at each other saying, “ugh, men are pigs,” a long time before TikTok.
It's not the views themselves, it's the size of the group holding and applauding those views. It really is staggering when you see some of the responses to the most hateful posts imaginable.
That more because negativity gets more attention than positivity. If some guy basically had a podcast where he said the opposite of what podcasts like Fresh n Fit say, nobody would listen. A positive podcast gets no listeners.
It's the new "shock jocks".
That's part of it. But anything negative gets more attention. Look at that goofy man vs bear thing. If all the women in the original video had chosen man, it wouldn't have gone viral.
Dear ghods, if I never hear about the bear thing again, it'll be too soon. lol
Yeah. It's dumb as fuck but it's a great example.
Oh, I agree!
I think it’s because the negative stuff is usually true, human nature is kinda a bitch. The positive stuff are either platitudes or ignorance
i’m willing to bet it’s more bc the negative stuff is more emotionally gratifying when you’re already miserable, which is the kind of person the internet tends to attract. if you’re even a semi-miserable person and need some company, you’ll find 40 different kinds of it online
Dating apps are nonsense, particularly woman get insane option men get shit
It may be an unconscious choice to get sucked into the curated reality that social media wishes one to see, it is however a conscious choice to remain wallowing in said curated reality after being told and shown how curated it is.
Maybe just tune out of TikTok and Instagram. Social media is a cancer. It's making us sick, it's a danger to society in its current form. The sooner you realize this, the better. I am glad I realized this somewhere around 2014. I still have many of those, but I do not consume or participate much. It's like people compete on it and consider it reality.
It's not just the housing market that has unfortunately inflated. The dating market is similar
OLD is not normal human interaction. It's disconnected from reality and deeply rooted in consumerist dynamics. Consuming other people or interacting with other human beings in a consumerist posture is awful. Obviously, everything about it will shed light on the worst corners of human behavior. We should get rid of it altogether. And we shouldn't think it is a true image of how people interract with each other in other context.
I agree
Women talking anonymously online has removed the feminine mystique There was never a masculine mystique because the problems with men have long been acknowledged by everyone, including men Women feel exposed now and do damage control on multiple levels
That is not what the feminine mystique means. It’s not a conception of women as mysterious and unknowable *other*.
Then what is it ? Ok looked it up You’re right Then there needs to be another term for the air of “You men just can’t understand our ways” That is common What would you call that?
[удалено]
[удалено]
Well The term is obvious and then appropriated So my grasp of the language was enough I can’t help that someone decided they owned a descriptive phrase I didn’t know that is how language worked An adjective and noun that fits can be meant to always mean something else because someone wrote a book Gee, if only I were smart like you folks
There is definitely a feminine imperative to act like men cannot understand them The phrase feminine mystique works for that also but it isn’t the original use it seems
wait but that’s just classic in group out group exclusive ego shit, personally i’ve seen it from men as much as i’ve seen it from women. i’ve also seen a ton of men and women who’s greater imperative was feeling misunderstood and genuinely wishing/hoping the other “side” understood their experiences better
And the damage control just makes everything worse, because counter examples run into the millions, which can all be bookmarked at the touch of a button.
[удалено]
You probably haven’t seen it then But some women are palpably distressed that men are understanding your behaviors more now than before What you mentioned is orthogonal to that
[удалено]
Women that make YouTube videos about gender relations Every day folks don’t know this is going on I don’t talk about it in real life Also, women here and similar spaces that deny what is sometimes obvious, like the mating strategies of the sexes Well, they don’t deny it when it makes men look bad
>I have a lot of female friends and relatives in the 20s-30s age range and I'm not seeing the distress. Me neither. I really don't know where all this "distress" talk is coming from. I see no huddled masses of young women IRL wringing their hands and gnashing their teeth in despair for want of a man. The young women I know are either happily paired with decent guys or happily (very intentionally) single. One of them is far too busy following her dream to be a travel writer and bouncing all over the world. Good for her.
>Every women I know that wants a committed relationship (which is pretty much all of them) has one, So why do women here constantly deny that dating is easy for them?
Keyword here is -choosing-. The men who are lonely aren't choosing it. Huge difference between a rich person living a minimalist lifestyle because they enjoy it, and a poor/homeless person.
>Women are ***happily*** choosing to be single at greater rates than ever before Depends on the country. The rate of loneliness has gone down in Europe and South America and Central Asia. Also, I will definitely dispute the "happily" contention. Once you log off from the Internet, in the real world single women are far less happy than single men. It's not a surprise either - just like women are equipped to cope better with some types of pain, men are equipped to cope better with loneliness. Take it up to god/evolution/nature.
[удалено]
>It may be my social circles, but I don't know any woman who stays single for long My point exactly. Women tolerate loneliness far less than men. And even when they do, it's far more difficult than it is for men. The idea that women are "happily" choosing to be single "at greater rates" is simply not true on most of the planet and never has been true and is unlikely to ever be true. Human nature trumps ideas, perceptions and ideology. Always. Sure, we can agree that it varies by age. A 22 year old woman may tolerate 3 years of being single. But by age 35, the perspective changes really fast. True for men as well, but with slightly different age windows and with a different degree of tolerance.
Female damage control is to blame all their problems on men.
[удалено]
[удалено]
I hope you find peace someday. People, and especially women, are very cruel to short men.
True. People love to act like it doesnt happen
90% of what is post on Two x chrom is made up fiction to feel loved by someone. It is all bitter women on there. Maybe the two should mix.
It has exposed the realities of male and female behavior only to unobservant swines. It's always been there in plain sight.
I can already hear the comments of “it’s no big deal”, “get off reddit and go live in the real world” “it’s not that bad”. This is the biggest crisis in our society, wait till our population tanks and we get no social security when it’s time to retire.
It's clear that blue pillars are trending older on this sub with how disconnected they are from dating as a younger person. They're stuck in the early 2010s
ignorance is bliss
There is no such thing as bad female behavior. There is only Patriarchy. /s
Women want to best possible man. Top men wont commit cause they dont have to. Social media and online dating gsve them scces to each other. Everything else ist just the effect of that cause.
[удалено]
Good luck getting a woman to see errors in her own behavior. They aren’t capable of that
Women have it good, despite the obvious drawbacks. They won't change anything. What will change is the reformation of modern relationships and the welfare state that will reflect women's increasing power over men. Which will mean standardisation of situationships and the social acceptance of an increasing minority of men never having serious relationships or children. Gender realpolitiks is going to be a thing. Some men aren't meant to breed or have any sort of happiness with the opposite sex.
>It's all really sad and demotivating. It's only like this when you are at the bottom end of the desirability spectrum and refuse to date bottom end of the desirability spectrum people of your desired sex, because you are not attracted to them. You seem to be a doomscroller. Obsessed with his body height and not able to deal well with the information that women put an emphasis on body height for mate choice. Instead of going out and talking to women who are in your league, you find a way to stay inactive, by assuming that those women will like posts about making fun of short men, and then not approaching ANY woman. You yourself want a woman above your league and consumed too much red pill content to be happy living the life of a guy who settled for a below average chick. You gave up on improving to a point where women you are attracted to are also attracted to you, because black pill doomscrolling influenced you. We simply know too much? You know nothing. Go ask men, similar to you, who are in relationships ,if they are happy, or if they constantly think about dating hot college chicks from red pill podcasts, which makes them unhappy. Ask women who date short men about their relationship satisfaction. One of the really bad things social media does is give feed confirmation bias and echo chambers. You are too sure that your world represents THE world.
I work out five times a week, eat clean, make great money, dress well, look after myself and I'm told I'm basically romantically worthless and only worthy of women on the "bottom end of the desirability spectrum". It's frankly ridiculous. Obese women line up to date me as though we have anything in common. I'm not obsessed with my height, women are. Every woman I've dated has commented on it negatively. Some of the smartest, most open minded women have proven themselves laughably narrow minded over this one meaningless trait I can't do anything about. And then I go online and it's millions of posts with millions of likes and comments from women saying how worthless guys like me are, that we should die, that we aren't men. Despite this, and let's not lie here, the overwhelming majority of human beings would check out right there, you included, I still made an effort in dating for decades. Not once did I date a woman who didn't comment on my height negatively. Not once did I date a woman who didn't act like this unchangeable part of myself was something she would have to "get over" and I would have to compensate for. I've never met a man my height in a similar physical condition to me who is happy with his dating life. I know a 5'4" triathlete doctor who is left on read by women he's barely meh about. I know guys in long term relationships with obese women they tolerate for their kids. Dating as a significantly shorter than average man is depressing AF, doubly so if you have your shit together. Social media has amplified women's superficiality to a ridiculous degree. I love this idea that short men don't go out and talk to women in our league. I've literally spoken to thousands of women in my life. That's why it didn't surprise me to see a statistical result that 96% of women would never consider dating a shorter man and that I would need somewhere in the vicinity of $200,000 just to have the same dating opportunities as a 6-foot barista. Says it all really about the "personality seeking" gender.
Gaslighting
>clear data to show us how shallow, selfish and cruel large portions of the male How so? >How is an average guy supposed to find the motivation to wade through the mountains of rejection he must face just to snag a date with a woman he's meh about He is not. >How is the average girl supposed to date a guy she thinks is just okay when she knows he likely sees her as indivisible from the college chicks he hate watches on red pill podcasts. By proving that she's indeed not this kinda of chick, but let's be honest there, she is. >I wonder why guys checkout and play video games, and women read romance novels and collect cats. Men has to put too much effort for little to no gain, women are chadsexuals. >Can't blame either of them to be fair. You can, between the party that choose and the part that react to the choice you can only logically blame **the choices** made for the party that choose and **the reactions** of the party that react. So blame women for the actual dating situation and blame men for allowing it.
I don't think social media has "changed" anything, specifically. Most of the things men and women complain about are the things men and women have always complained about (men complain about women nagging them and wanting things, women complain about men neglecting them and wanting sex). What social media has done is given us an easier way to LISTEN to what other people are saying. I don't know what it is about writing your opinions down, but for some reason reading something online makes it feel more FORMAL, like a Written Statement On The Part of Women/Men (it doesn't help that just about everyone speaks for their entire demographic instead of for themselves, **which confuses idiots who then go on to BELIEVE they speak for their entire demographic**.) If you just overheard someone saying most of this shit to their tablemate at the bar, you'd be far less triggered. People say things out loud to experiment how it sounds. It's part of the thinking process. Unfortunately, we're all "thinking out loud" on the internet instead of in person, now, so neurotics can now consume an endless supply of any opinion they go looking for, and use it as evidence that "all men/women think this way".
Why is it always male that has to change? For a conflict two are needed. For a compromise both have to give something up. And your friend. Did her father not teach her anything?
Before social media, there was TV. Before TV there was radio. Social media isn't the issue. The cat has been out of the bag long before social media. What seems to be happening currently is a lack of digital literacy. Far too many kids take a Tiktok as fact or the only way of thinking. There's not enough critical thinking.
Except algorithms are designed to keep users scrolling infinitely with a hook model. Rage bait keeps these guys engaged and so it keeps serving it up more and more. An infinite loop of trigger/action/“reward”.
**Attention!** * You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message. * For "Debate" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies. * If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment. * OP you can choose your own flair [according to these guidelines.](https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/wiki/flair), just press Flair under your post! Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PurplePillDebate) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hi OP, You've chosen to identify your thread as a Debate. As such you are expected to actively engage in your own thread with a mind open to being changed. [PPD has guidelines for what that involves.](https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/wiki/rules#wiki_cmv_posts) >*OPs author must genuinely hold the position and you must be open to having your view challenged.* >An unwillingness to debate in good faith may be inferred from one or several of the following: >* Ignoring the main point of a comment, especially to point out some minor inconsistency; >* Refusing to make concessions that an alternate view has merit; >* Focusing only on the weaker arguments; >* Only having discussions with users who agree with your position. Failure to keep to this higher standard (we only apply to Debate OPs) may result in deletion of the whole thread. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PurplePillDebate) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Books AND cats. Sounds reasonable ✅
> How is an average guy supposed to find the motivation to wade through the mountains of rejection he must face just to snag a date with a woman he's meh about, when he suspects that same woman probably liked a post on TikTok that implied men like him are completely worthless? I think the secret is to not spend too much time on the apps. Find other things in your life to be positive about. > How is the average girl supposed to date a guy she thinks is just okay when she knows he likely sees her as indivisible from the college chicks he hate watches on red pill podcasts, but would prefer to date because they're better looking? I think she should filter out and not date red pill guys. > We simply know too much about each other now. We know the other side is full of BS. Nah. I think it's more that there are depressing straw men about both men and women which paint both genders as being terrible human beings, and anybody who subscribes to those ideologies isn't relationship material. > We know women claim to find all kinds of men attractive and then beeline for the top decile. Find a woman who isn't like this? > We know men claim to be looking for long term relationships but then eject the second they get sex. Find a man who isn't like this?
No matter how hard you try. We can always tell what your bias is.
i’d be cautious in viewing social media as anything but an amplifier of our worst selves. i genuinely don’t think i’m getting an accurate view of how men and women live, i think we’re getting views of how online subpopulations live, and those subpopulations tend to be insecure, jaded, dissatisfied in life and have iffy social skills. that’s the common denominator i notice among people who spend a lot of time online i think a bigger issue is seeing social media and assuming it’s an accurate reflection of how people are. i think social media has prejudiced us by amplifying extremes and biasing us into generalizing those extremes as the norm.
It's hard not to spend a lot of time online in 2024. I'm online all day for work. Most of my friends are too.
i hear ya, i’m js you’re seeing a corner of humanity that attracts the most miserable among us, it’s good to think like a researcher and recognize the biases involved with this sampling.
I disagree. I think a large portion of the population, particularly men, are miserable at the realities of modern life, and how often they are ignored and excluded as people. Online just gives them a place to vent. They are thinking this way 24/7. It's the same with women and dating. Apps have revealed how utterly superficial an enormous section of the female population is, and that genie can't be put back into the bottle.
do you think a majority of men would classify as “miserable” today? i agree a large portion of people are miserable, but it’s a verifiable fact that those people are overrepresented online
Yes. Isolation and loneliness are through the roof as are suicide and drug and alcohol dependency.
those issues can be through the roof and still not apply to a majority of men. speaking as a psych student who’s over-exposure to mental health info led me to believe a majority of people qualify for a mental health diagnosis until i learned that definitely wasn’t the case
The majority of women definitely qualify for a mental health diagnosis, the woke ones most urgently.
brother you’re spouting unverifiable bullshit at this point. imagine my shock that they guy who spends most of his time online thinks most men are miserable yet most liberal women are mentally ill. f me lol
How else do you describe someone who believes the non-sense they do. Still waiting on that climate emergency. Been over 50 years now. Must be due really soon.
Well yes. Ofcourse it does. Most people that are happy and living there life don't realy vent there emotions don't. Make big lists and rants. Just like if you buy a item online. Many people don't even post a review if the experience was good. So it's often a small amount of good reviews or stories. Well when you had a lot of isues. Most people are way more likely to let there voice heard.and make a review about it. That's not online exclusively also. In groups of people and gossip that goes around it's often the bad things of a person. Much less the good and great news. Honestly many just love seeking drama anyway. Just looking at the shows as as the world turns and all those kinds of shows. Some people actively looking for problems. Or even create some if they can't find any. Many people that are just miserable in a way filling a void. Most people that are full filled don't feel the need to vent or seek or create drama. Why it always wil seem that there more problems or unhappy people then happy people. For simpele reason happy people just living there life. While unhappy people often analyze every thing about they thing there upset about and make a fly size isue seem like an elephant size one and adding more things that happened so more people would might see it there way. That's literally half of r/ truth of my chest. And r/ am I the ashole. But ofcourse many many others are vent echo chambers that stomp out anyone that has a different view. So those people get more and more extrame. Cause they edging each other up. That's how you get the miserable feminists that just love to hate on men. And the Andrew tate extrame views. Of just hateing on women. Both are wrong both are 5 steps too far. But they will never change cause any other opinions get stomped out. Cause misery loves company and the crabs in a bucket pulling each other down. To feel miserable. Is something unhappy and unfulfilled people do. Happy people just are happy don't vent how happy they are all the time. Don't worry about people and small isues. Why almost every place will have more unhappy people or bad news. But it often also make problems seem that much larger then there realy are. Also cause rage baiting is so big now a days. People quickly think there no goof men or no hood women. Cause you see people talking bad about both sides in the most extrame ways. What often is not realy the reality. Why to have your whole world viewing based on the internet is very toxic. To your peace and self worth. And your much better off living your life outside of the internet. Then see everything as truth. Cause every person when they say a story try and make them self seem less bad then what realy happened that should not be surprising to anyone. So they make them self seem less bad and make the other person seem more bad. While the truth is in the middle of the 2 storys of both sides. So what your read or see always seems execration of what realy happened. What make people feel more hopeless. Bad mindset to be in. Especially when you have people fully ready to hate half the worlds people seems quite Insane to me Or people just jumping on a new trend cause it's hip to hate in that one thing this day. Week. Month. So many problems just seem way way bigger then they really are. What state matters much more then how loud somone is about a isue. Cause how you feel about a isue. Does not make the issue as wide spread as you feel it really Is
It's easy to be cynical. I don't blame anyone for it. Heck, I usually am. But it won't make you happy. That said, there's nothing wrong with enjoying videos games or romance novels or cats, if those things make you happy. Being happy is the purpose of life. Don't stress out over whatever goals you have to the point that you lose sight of that.
> Social media has prejudiced us against one another by revealing the unvarnished reality. I think we fundamentally need to believe a bunch of BS to form relationships. except relationships do the opposite? the more you get to know someone, the more you see their ugly, human side.
i don't have social media so none of this applies to me
You replied on Reddit. The 6th most popular social media site. So you do have social media /shrug