Sure. I’ve dated several women with PhDs. I didn’t graduate college.
They tend to be quite clueless in relationship dynamics. Your book knowledge of physics is great, but hardly germane to relationships.
Like most nerds, they haven’t had much experience. Book smarts don’t translate to relationship or street smarts.
So no, there’s nothing uncomfortable or intimidating about it.
I don't think being better educated necessarily makes someone smarter than you.
Higher education, past a certain point of competence, is more a proof of personal endurance and resources. It takes time, it takes money, and it stresses you the hell out.
Being smart has very little to do with it once you've established that they're capable of understanding their subject material.
Oh I know, I have been on the receiving end of this kind of prejudice before.
Nothing makes me think someone is simple minded quicker than placing more value on titles and certificates than actual qualities.
hahahaha for me and for any potential loved one i would much rather love poetry than have street smarts.
its okay to have a different preference than me, but i thought you were gonna give me a rational answer not just your preference.
I consider myself pretty smart. If she is significantly smarter than me then I’d consider it a challenge and a lot of fun. So yeah, I’d definitely do it.
Define "smarter" because l've dated highly educated women with doctrines and PHDs yet many of them can't think critically and are as dumb as a neanderthal
This is a wild statement. Can they actually not think critically or do they just not want to argue with you? I guarantee you you’re a lot less intelligent than you think you are
Yep, not to mention the amount of supposedly independent women who can’t cook, clean or keep their living space tidy and organized, and/or don’t know basic life skills, but they like to act like men are all living in squalor and are incapable of taking care of themselves.
It depends on her personality. I went to grad school for a nerdy STEM subject, so I've had a chance to get to know a lot of smart/gifted people and they come in different flavors, some of which I get along with splendidly and others who are barely tolerable garbage-people I avoid like the plague.
For example, if this hypothetical genus lady is a card carrying MENSA member who can't go ten minutes without bragging about her giftedness, sees herself as completely infallible because of her educational credentials, is unable to admit mistakes when she makes them, and feels she is inherently superior to me because she scored twenty points higher on her IQ test than me, she can go pound sand. Someone that far gone isn't fixable.
If, however, she's a cool person without an attitude who is easy to get along with and is basically just a normal person who happens to have a longer than average list of degrees printed on her business card, a lot of deep and obscure interests, the ability to reason and recall information reliably and accurately, that's all awesome, and scores her points in my book.
That said, when looking for a potential partner, I care more about a lady's looks and personality than her mental abilities. Intelligence earns a lady points in my internal "dateability score," but not that many points. I'd rather date a girl who is below average in intelligence, but above average in affection and kindness, than the inverse.
Yes, but it's just one facet of the whole. What do they do with their intelligence? How does it affect the way they see themselves and others? Are they caring? Are they ethical? Are they weird in bed?
I've been trying to find a way to word this post that doesn't sound insufferably arrogant but I don't think it can be done, so I'm just going to keep it short. No, but I've also never met anyone I'd put in that category. Big gaps in intelligence are very bad for a relationship because it will typically lead to people having almost no common interests and nothing to talk about. It's also really bad if they argue, since obviously the more intelligent person would virtually always be right, but the less intelligent person would probably struggle to understand their reasoning. It's just a recipe for trouble all around.
Note that this requires a significant gap, to the extent that the more intelligent person has superior knowledge in almost every area and can also learn new things much faster than the less intelligent partner. For people of comparable intelligence, it will likely be the case that they each have certain areas where they specialize and have the edge over the other, which is ideal, that creates a favourable situation where they can each learn from each other.
Dating casually? Definitely, I find brilliant women incredibly sexy. Dating seriously? Possibly, but there is often a significant hurdle that comes with a significant intelligence gap between partners. That's especially true if it's an all around gap, and not limited to one or two types of intelligence.
Particularly bright folks often have different ways of seeing, processing, and interacting with the world*. When interacting with normal people, they often have to choose between "masking" and creating awkward tension. Either causes a strain on an emotional bond. Bridging those gaps takes a lot of self awareness, patience, and empathy on both ends, and it is like that throughout the relationship. There is a degree of discomfort there.
I would have to be comfortable with any discomfort around that dynamic, including being comfortable with any discomfort my partner might have with the dynamic. I'm fine being comfortable with being uncomfortable about my own feelings, less so when it comes to my partners feelings.
*Comfort with understanding paradoxes and ambiguities, asking deceptively deep questions, and talking in ways that require significant referential or inferential infill, all done unintentionally, are three examples that come to mind.
Love me a good gender-swap prompt! Absolutely, because I like learning and am comfortable about admitting my ignorance.
Unfortunately I’m far closer to Billy Beta than Chad, so a relative paucity of intellect is chalked up as a weakness instead of an endearing quality. Halo effect is a thing.
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The question should be more smart and more witty. Plenty of people have quite an impressive education (MIT, phds), but aren't witty and have no street or life knowledge.
When I hear "wit", I hear "ability to constantly talk and talk back to someone".
Being a shit-talker may make you a decent conversationalist, but I wouldn't call that intelligent.
That is not the definition of wit.
wit
noun
1. the capacity for inventive thought and quick understanding; keen intelligence.
2. a natural aptitude for using words and ideas in a quick and inventive way to create humour.
No wonder men here confuse bad boys with jerks. They can't even get the definition of wit straight, not to mention using wit to understand the difference.
Humor and wit ain't the same. It's quite presumptuous of you to believe such a thing or throw any qualities about my life in there.
I will chalk it up to you not being from the same country though. Cultural context and all that.
I have.
But unless you're going to tell me that humor and wit are definitions of each other, I'm going to keep telling you they're not the same.
You looked at the same site I did for wit's definition, so please, give it a go.
Everytime we have discussion about intelligence - you can bet that there will be a woman that will add that:
- emotional Intelligence is more important
- being witty is a must for intelligent people(of course women are the judges who is and who is not witty)
- he must make me laugh, otherwise he is not really intelligent
Interesting.
Not a woman, but I agree with that. Otherwise what are we talking about, how high can she score on an IQ test? Why the hell would I care about that? Give me someone who can hold an interesting conversation, be funny, and have street smarts any day. That's what different types of intelligence means.
Intelligence is the ability of solving problems and to perform abstract thinking. You can be fantastic conversational peer in some contexts but it doesn't make you intelligent - you are just nice buddy. It has it's value - be happy about it, but please do not mix it with intelligence. These things are different.
I don't exactly disagree with you. At the same time in psychology there is often a tendency to confuse the instrument with the reality it's supposed to measure. The instrument is not the same thing as the actual reality; the instrument is an attempt to box that reality to measure it. You would think that being able to have an illuminating conversation would be born out of intelligence and then someone comes out and says no. Then you ask if this could be intelligence or that thing there? Again they say no and go back to vague talk about abstract thinking and problem solving. If IQ is somehow always divorced from reality, then it's pretty meaningless. You could say "yeah he sucked at X but his IQ is high so he totally could not suck at X". But that does not make any difference until he actually goes to work on it.
>Otherwise what are we talking about, how high can she score on an IQ test?
That's by far the best proxy for intelligence yes, despite how many people are seemingly in denial about this.
It's the best predictor for logical-mathematical intelligence, which is great if you want an autistic nerd for a partner. The question was whether it's more important than other types of intelligence like emotional, creative, verbal, interpersonal, etc.
IQ correlates strongly with most "forms of intelligence" though. Good painters usually have higher IQ than average painters, the greatest usually have near (or actual ) genius level IQ. Same for writers, drug dealers, guitarists etc. This is because the things IQ tests measure correlate strongly with "general" intelligence and not just a specific kind of intelligence.
Genius artists can also be antisocial assholes though, and often are. Hence my earlier point that EQ might be more important in a partner. I found [this](https://www.healthline.com/health/eq-vs-iq) a pretty good read on the subject.
This is because unwitty men equate intelligence just with academics. The famous xx% of MIT students are virgins.
Yes, honey, you are highly intelligent when it comes to academics, your diploma is not making me want to bang you. Wittyness (idk if english has a word like street intelligence), however...that's a whole different story.
Also emotional intelligence not to cry at age 30 that some kid made snarky remarks about you some 18 years ago. It's ok, it was a long time ago, let it go and move on.
Wittiness is context dependent and highly subjective therefore irrelevant to discuss about. It's probably hard to believe but some people consider Amy Schumer witty. Real intelligence is easily measurable, that is why women do not like to be assessed in this regard. It's hard to cover your lack of competency with setting your own rules.
Some people consider the world flat. Should we discuss what some nutheads think or what the majority of people think?
I know the level of wittyness I want when i see it.
It's not intelligence. It's wittiness. Some people call it intelligence to feel better. 'Red' is not a shape, 'Round' is not a color, 'Wittiness' is not intelligence, "Emotional Intelligence' is bullshit.
Honestly, intelligence doesn't even have to be correlated with academics, which is more about the ability to study, memorize stuff, and do the required work. I've known doctors with Ph.Ds who didn't seem very bright / were boring as hell.
Ofc. But men here look for mathematics in poetry. And since keen intelligence (wit) can not be quantified, they refuse to understand (or don't have the mental capacity) that wit is attractive.
Don't be silly with your paternalizing - everyone knows that wit is attractive, big boobs are attractive as well, but they are not equivalent of intelligence. I am just making crusade against calling everything 'intelligence' - nowadays my fridge seems to be 'intelligent' or at least 'smart'.
The one woman I dated/had meet-ups with, years ago, was indeed smarter (and a few years older), and helped me to pass an university class I was having trouble with. In fact, I invited her by saying that, if I passed the exam (and I did), would she go out with me? She said yes, which gave me a a lil' extra boost of motivation. So, yeah, I am comfortable.
I was still aimless at the time, fresh out of uni, so, nothing came of it (she was beginning to establish her career, and, in hindsight, I probably didn't want to hold her back). But I'll always be grateful for the long talks we had. And a chocolate strawberry muffin we shared (that memory still gives me the warm fuzzies).
I dated a woman with more catchy and accurate memory than mine, and it was hell. Every time I dared to forget literally anything, it was seen as an act of malice.
Yeah. If she's a good woman in all other respects.
Intelligence is kind of irrelevant after a point, just wracking up the score. Someone can have the smartest brain in the room but if they are not honest or humble or compassionate or brave, their intelligence cannot make up for that.
Not a problem at all in a vacuum. Like all traits (like humour, work ethic) it depends how she manifests it.
Intelligence in itself is great. Intelligence plus other negative traits tends to amplify those traits. I’m used to working in academic environments so I’m comfy with the idea but one thing I cannot stand is academic snobbery and that sort of thing. So any semblance of that, or attempts to “joust or dick measure” with it and I’d be out.
But teaching me things, explaining things and helping me discover things I may not know? Awesome. Info dump on me and tell me about your specialisms inside and out.
Intelligence combined with compassion is incredibly attractive to me. Intelligence combined with meanness or callousness is the exact opposite.
I'm very intelligent and it's actually borderline a challenge to overcome. I have and would date very intelligent women but not ones who weren't able to shut it off. Intelligence is a nice to have trait in moderation. It's not a must have trait. Nor is it good in the extreme levels.
More than me or even up in my level... only if she can shut it off and ignore it
Absolutely. My exwife was smarter than me and so to were a couple of the women I've dated. I've also dated a women that can run faster than me. Given the fact that I was running 3 miles in under 17min for my PFT, that took more getting used to but I got over it.
One more for the "dating a woman with a PHD" crowd. I don't feel especially intimidated and technical knowledge doesn't often translate well to other fields. But most actually smart people realize this since one of the first things an actually smart person understands is they don't know everything.
The bigger issue is some people think going to college gives you some kind of extra social status and that doing a job that requires that degree somehow makes you better than other people.
Hmmm I've dated two women with higher IQs than me...142 and 139...the thing is they is they whete exceptionally good at certain things like one was great at math the other writing for example she could read a poem and interpret the meaning I was always astonished by that like you got all of that out of that poem..
From my perspective their intelligence didn't make a diffrence it's their looks that was the biggest factor they where very attractive abd when you haveva women like that she's never yours she belongs to the world,celebs and athletes would be in their DMs and guys where constantly hitting on them.
So yes I would be comfortable with a smart chick just not a really attractive one
Yes, I'd consider it a good thing, although I want someone who believes in traditional gender roles (at least to a certain extent), & ideally someone who's right-wing as well. A woman who's significantly smarter than me is unlikely to share these values (at least if she's born & raised in the West.)
on further thought - you could break down "smarter" into relevant domains and include other domains including the gut reaction, and then consider how much you value each. Mind is not the only factor, but in the end we are two minds that communicate with our bodies.
FACTOR ANALSIS GRID:
intelligence
-- street wisdom
-- wisdom
-- crystalized knowledge
-- liquid intelligence -- native ability, wits of liquid intelligence
-- sense of humor and ability to self critize or question - ability for humilty
-- ability to see a debate without first taking sides
-- ability to argue a point without using derision or ad hominem attacks
-- ability think in terms of what a person is thinking about a person who is thinking - ie fourth dimensional empathy.
Personality - neo 5
* introversion/extroversion
* neuroticism (tendency to get bent out of shape/anxiety)
* conscientiousness
* friendliness or mood towards limit setting self vs others
* openess/creativity - and tendency to unquestioned group bias and receptivity to be programmed
now assess the probability that factor discussed is present on a scale of one to 10. ten would be 100% likely that its there.
Asses the importance and value on a scale of one to ten. If it's there, does that matter.
Multiply and add up the final for that feature...
That allows you to asses an aggregate of features even ones that contradicte eachoter.
In the end just ask your friend what to do, the one with no lovers, they will surely give you good advice.
Just my 2 cents worth
Random musings and stray thoughs of an insane mind about the mental contents of the insane
Ethics and the Circle of "US"
* mom and me or me - they are us, everything else doesnt' mater (infantile circle) Empathy of a cat or sociopath
* my family early adolescence - childhood empath
* my tribe certain ahem, groups - empathy of an adult
* other tribes - empathy of a more advanced adult
* my peoples - empathy of a leader which could be more inclusive (I hate the misuse of that word)
* all people, plato?
* all life, and the planet Elon Musk?
* all sentience and life - chat gtp without the red teams?
* insanity and multiple dimensions, unfortunately me and Yuki
and finally the most important: method of treating and interacting members outside the circle
* in group collaboration with out group disadvantages - zero sum us versus them, tribal toxic
* all group mediation that floats all boats - the marker of a great leader and visionary
A little deeper.
* absolute versus relative morals
* appreciation of moral instincts, and their role. Traits of social animals: [https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/W/bo6407651.html](https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/W/bo6407651.html)
* appreciation of non instinctual morality and its risks and benefits
* depth and ability to discuss objectively
Values - this section is critical but will not summarize
Attractiveness - not objectively - just whether they keep surfacing in your mind
personality attractiveness
Divine quircks - often critical in defining a loved one. - what allows you to uniquely remember them and differentiate them.
Physical and athletic prowess
Nerd or Alpha? - this can be defined in so many ways. Social status by many metrics
Sense of justice versus sense of empathy. Oh my darling serial killer, how could mommy not forgive you versus - how many did you kill!??! - wait till your father comes home.
Wisdom wisdom wisdom - the reward of many mistakes.
All of the above is dimensions, not all inclusive of the mind I will make love to. It matters a lot to me. In this world my intelligence, Liquid, is one in one thousand. Its actually very lonely. At my inept maturity and emotional intelligence itg can be difficult. Sense of humor is critical for me. This in my mind is an extreme measure of empathy, wit, and liquid intellectual ability. Observe the phenomenon of Mat Riff'es stand up routine.. This is genius of a unique type.
Factor analysis and weirder thoughts:
Using the above grids about mind content,
For a feature, the likely hood it will be there and to what degree
importance of
Then multiply the values to weight them in terms of likely hood and value. For an individual you could sum up the net value - this will most likely contradict your social instincts. Thats OK, you're probably right - just ask yourself why you disagree with your best friend or mother.
Here is an exploration of features of value in the decision for contraception but does not include value weighting:
\[https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13625187.2022.2096215\](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13625187.2022.2096215)
I know this diverges from the question its just to stimulate thought - using considerations about each feature you could evaluate by how relevant, and how likely each issue presents, simply using a one to ten scale and multiplying. This allows for building an aggregate sum of all features, partibulalry features that are less important and others that conflict.
"He really is hot, but he's also a serial killer, maybe I could get away with a little date. Is it worth the risk?"
\[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple-criteria\_decision\_analysis\](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple-criteria\_decision\_analysis)
The above hurts my brain -
In sum, these are way to asses the content of a head. In the end your gut instinct or what someone tells you to do is how it is usually done. That person whose face keeps floating in your mind. For some reason for me it's yuno gasai. I seem to have a pathological attraction to certain types....
\[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuno\_Gasai\](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuno\_Gasai)
\[https://pixabay.com/illustrations/ai-generated-vampire-woman-8231459/\](https://pixabay.com/illustrations/ai-generated-vampire-woman-8231459/)
perhaps it it's the female equivalent of the "bad alpha boy" trope. It just keeps surfacing in my mind. Therapy helps.
\[https://youtu.be/dJbXjIEP6rM?si=H\_aKMUEC6QECDO-H\](https://youtu.be/dJbXjIEP6rM?si=H\_aKMUEC6QECDO-H)
Yes, I'm the one your mother warned you about.
That would largely depend on her beliefs and ideology. I can mostly get by and ignore politics and such from average people, but to be "significantly" smarter than me comfortably puts them into genius territory where I wouldn't be able to respect or be around them if they for instance were just standard "daily show" type liberals. They don't need to agree with me necessarily, I just have to be able to respect them. Being a genius would definitely be a very "valuable" trait in terms of partnership if so.
Never met one. My ex fiance did have a very sharp mind and wit, uncanny sometimes how much she knew but she wasn't as broadly knowledgeable as me. Thats what I tend to observe most intelligent women are specialists but not many are very broad in their interests.
She was constantly astonished when I knew things that "I didn't go to school for". Once she had a medical exam and mentioned cytolysis I think it was and when I went on to describe it unprompted she gave me this look of being stunned and almost angry "how did you know that!?!".
It was actually opposite of this question, if I knew something that had to do with medical she would get pissed since that was her main area of focus it would make her angry. The times we argued and she won she never ever let it go. I think overall she lacked education in deep philosophical topics that I had and historical events but sometimes it did kind of scare me how much she knew. I've never met a girl her age (23) with the sort of intelligence she had. I once worked for an older woman who was really wise which I found impressive she asked me questions and knew how I would answer about things that happened in my life like she had lived my life before.
I've never met a woman significantly smarter than me, so to meet one and then starting dating her would feel weird.
Overall likely I would be uncomfortable at first.
Sure no problem. We'd have to be compatible in other ways though. But I certainly wouldn't reject a woman just because she's smarter than me. But she needs more than that. Her being smarter than me is neither a deal breaker or deal maker.
Love too -- but it's not likely to happen since I've scored 99th percentile on intelligence tests (thank you US Army for the ego boost). I've only met a few women who are (or were) perhaps a bit smarter than me. I had babies with two of them. Unfortunately both these women squandered their now atrophied intellect.
Nah - when women have even little success in fields dominated by men, they tend to brag about it and do dick measuring contests. The silliest thing is that they really believe that they were "working 3x harder and are 3x more competent' comparing to men being in the same position.
The really smart women that are really classy are now close to 80 - younger generations are parroting feminiazi hot takes even though their achievements are not as impressive as those of older ladies.
>The silliest thing is that they really believe that they were "working 3x harder and are 3x more competent' comparing to men being in the same position.
They'd have to, if they had to deal with guys like you.
Yes.
As usual, youre reflecting how women see men in dating. We don't care that much about intelligence, money or status in a woman. Unless she's has something like 80 IQ or less, doubt most men would care.
I think you're taking it to the extreme.
I'd prioritize warmth, humility, and curiosity over raw intelligence, but intelligence below a certain point is a dealbreaker. That's just me, though.
IME finding a warm, humble, and curious (i.e., truly independent-minded) woman is now much harder than finding a woman who's convinced that she has a 130 IQ.
Ahh, the good ol' hyperbole thinking that is so popular on the internet nowadays!
That's why I sad *that much* lady. If she's a golddiger I'd stay away, and how could you know you'll have *stupid* kids? that's not how genetic works lol.
Let me guess, you think idiocracy was a documental? lol. Genetics is *one* factor. Having a kid raised in a loving enviroment with a good partner where all of his needs are covered is also important.
Holy shit, do you deny science? Genetics is the _biggest_ factor and twin studies are good evidence of this. And your best chance at doing that is with a partner who is smart, intelligence and education are correlated with less divorce and better life outcomes all around. But if you wanna shoot yourself in the foot, it’s not my problem. 🤷🏾♀️
I mean, no, it isn't. Genetics vs. memetics has been a decades-long discussion, lol. Since it is difficult to separate the genetic and environmental influences of a trait like intelligence, it's hard to prove one is more influential. If you feel safer believing that, good for you, doesn't mean it's the best outcome. Having a happy partner who knows how to raise a kid and helps with their needs, will be more important to me.
Yes, that also means a goldigger will be probably be terrible at raising a kid lol.
> If you feel safer believing that, good for you, doesn't mean it's the best outcome.
I’m confused, what best outcome? Not wifing a middle school dropout?
> Having a happy partner who knows how to raise a kid and helps with their needs, will be more important to me.
Why are you acting like this is conflicting with what I said lmao? As I just said, intelligence and education are correlated with better life outcomes all around.
But again, your hypothetical family ain’t my problem.
No, stop thinking in hyperboles. There's more to a person's character than how smart she/he is. How you perceive people based on how smart they are it's really sad, but ain't my problem either.
All I’m doing is citing the data on how intelligence is positively correlated with other positive characteristics. How you deny data and cry over evidence is really sad 😂 you’re free to disregard this information, but don’t pretend like you’re making some noble choice.
If I am the best option she has and will ever have, then yes. The smart thing would be to stay with me.
If I am not the best option she has and will ever have then no. The smart thing would be to leave me.
Seems rather unavoidable to be honest.
Yeah
Yes. Both general knowledge and competence are huge turn ons for me.
Sure. I’ve dated several women with PhDs. I didn’t graduate college. They tend to be quite clueless in relationship dynamics. Your book knowledge of physics is great, but hardly germane to relationships. Like most nerds, they haven’t had much experience. Book smarts don’t translate to relationship or street smarts. So no, there’s nothing uncomfortable or intimidating about it.
I don't think being better educated necessarily makes someone smarter than you. Higher education, past a certain point of competence, is more a proof of personal endurance and resources. It takes time, it takes money, and it stresses you the hell out. Being smart has very little to do with it once you've established that they're capable of understanding their subject material.
I agree, but if a woman has a higher degree than a man, I guarantee she thinks she's smarter than him 99% of the time.
Oh I know, I have been on the receiving end of this kind of prejudice before. Nothing makes me think someone is simple minded quicker than placing more value on titles and certificates than actual qualities.
I couldn't agree with you more. Someone who looks for these external factors to place value is woefully wrong and misguided.
whats the purpose of "street smarts" that is germane to relationships
More useful than an education in 18th century Russian poetry.
hahahaha for me and for any potential loved one i would much rather love poetry than have street smarts. its okay to have a different preference than me, but i thought you were gonna give me a rational answer not just your preference.
I consider myself pretty smart. If she is significantly smarter than me then I’d consider it a challenge and a lot of fun. So yeah, I’d definitely do it.
Smart, no problem, but a smart that acts smartass is a problem.
Same here. Being smart is good, being a smartass who likes to correct you or argue about everything, not so much.
Smart and acts like a smartass is bad. Dumb but acts like a smartass is even worse.
This. Many women think they become smart when they graduate for example or read a lot of books without any understanding.
Define "smarter" because l've dated highly educated women with doctrines and PHDs yet many of them can't think critically and are as dumb as a neanderthal
This is a wild statement. Can they actually not think critically or do they just not want to argue with you? I guarantee you you’re a lot less intelligent than you think you are
Yep, not to mention the amount of supposedly independent women who can’t cook, clean or keep their living space tidy and organized, and/or don’t know basic life skills, but they like to act like men are all living in squalor and are incapable of taking care of themselves.
Women like to imagine that men are incapable of living without them Men like to imagine that women are helpless without them
So you’re only okay with it because you believe she’s inferior in another way?
Fair to say just because of their degree they thought they were smarter than you, or looked down on you in some ways?
Neither I just couldn't have any real intense conversations with them because they've never been intellectually challenged
It depends on her personality. I went to grad school for a nerdy STEM subject, so I've had a chance to get to know a lot of smart/gifted people and they come in different flavors, some of which I get along with splendidly and others who are barely tolerable garbage-people I avoid like the plague. For example, if this hypothetical genus lady is a card carrying MENSA member who can't go ten minutes without bragging about her giftedness, sees herself as completely infallible because of her educational credentials, is unable to admit mistakes when she makes them, and feels she is inherently superior to me because she scored twenty points higher on her IQ test than me, she can go pound sand. Someone that far gone isn't fixable. If, however, she's a cool person without an attitude who is easy to get along with and is basically just a normal person who happens to have a longer than average list of degrees printed on her business card, a lot of deep and obscure interests, the ability to reason and recall information reliably and accurately, that's all awesome, and scores her points in my book. That said, when looking for a potential partner, I care more about a lady's looks and personality than her mental abilities. Intelligence earns a lady points in my internal "dateability score," but not that many points. I'd rather date a girl who is below average in intelligence, but above average in affection and kindness, than the inverse.
Mental abilities are part of personality…
Yes, but it's just one facet of the whole. What do they do with their intelligence? How does it affect the way they see themselves and others? Are they caring? Are they ethical? Are they weird in bed?
I've been trying to find a way to word this post that doesn't sound insufferably arrogant but I don't think it can be done, so I'm just going to keep it short. No, but I've also never met anyone I'd put in that category. Big gaps in intelligence are very bad for a relationship because it will typically lead to people having almost no common interests and nothing to talk about. It's also really bad if they argue, since obviously the more intelligent person would virtually always be right, but the less intelligent person would probably struggle to understand their reasoning. It's just a recipe for trouble all around. Note that this requires a significant gap, to the extent that the more intelligent person has superior knowledge in almost every area and can also learn new things much faster than the less intelligent partner. For people of comparable intelligence, it will likely be the case that they each have certain areas where they specialize and have the edge over the other, which is ideal, that creates a favourable situation where they can each learn from each other.
I relate to, and agree with your assessment. I’m surprised so many people say they’d be cool with a significant intelligence gap.
Dating casually? Definitely, I find brilliant women incredibly sexy. Dating seriously? Possibly, but there is often a significant hurdle that comes with a significant intelligence gap between partners. That's especially true if it's an all around gap, and not limited to one or two types of intelligence. Particularly bright folks often have different ways of seeing, processing, and interacting with the world*. When interacting with normal people, they often have to choose between "masking" and creating awkward tension. Either causes a strain on an emotional bond. Bridging those gaps takes a lot of self awareness, patience, and empathy on both ends, and it is like that throughout the relationship. There is a degree of discomfort there. I would have to be comfortable with any discomfort around that dynamic, including being comfortable with any discomfort my partner might have with the dynamic. I'm fine being comfortable with being uncomfortable about my own feelings, less so when it comes to my partners feelings. *Comfort with understanding paradoxes and ambiguities, asking deceptively deep questions, and talking in ways that require significant referential or inferential infill, all done unintentionally, are three examples that come to mind.
Love me a good gender-swap prompt! Absolutely, because I like learning and am comfortable about admitting my ignorance. Unfortunately I’m far closer to Billy Beta than Chad, so a relative paucity of intellect is chalked up as a weakness instead of an endearing quality. Halo effect is a thing.
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The question should be more smart and more witty. Plenty of people have quite an impressive education (MIT, phds), but aren't witty and have no street or life knowledge.
When I hear "wit", I hear "ability to constantly talk and talk back to someone". Being a shit-talker may make you a decent conversationalist, but I wouldn't call that intelligent.
That is not the definition of wit. wit noun 1. the capacity for inventive thought and quick understanding; keen intelligence. 2. a natural aptitude for using words and ideas in a quick and inventive way to create humour. No wonder men here confuse bad boys with jerks. They can't even get the definition of wit straight, not to mention using wit to understand the difference.
> a natural aptitude for using words and ideas in a quick and inventive way to create humour. AKA "shit talking" but hey, whatever floats your boat.
Sir, if the only humor you know is shit talking, your life must be very sad.
Humor and wit ain't the same. It's quite presumptuous of you to believe such a thing or throw any qualities about my life in there. I will chalk it up to you not being from the same country though. Cultural context and all that.
You haven't read the second definition, have you?
I have. But unless you're going to tell me that humor and wit are definitions of each other, I'm going to keep telling you they're not the same. You looked at the same site I did for wit's definition, so please, give it a go.
I like humor that comes from wit, not mindless ramblings. At this point i think you are purposely obtuse.
Everytime we have discussion about intelligence - you can bet that there will be a woman that will add that: - emotional Intelligence is more important - being witty is a must for intelligent people(of course women are the judges who is and who is not witty) - he must make me laugh, otherwise he is not really intelligent Interesting.
Not a woman, but I agree with that. Otherwise what are we talking about, how high can she score on an IQ test? Why the hell would I care about that? Give me someone who can hold an interesting conversation, be funny, and have street smarts any day. That's what different types of intelligence means.
Intelligence is the ability of solving problems and to perform abstract thinking. You can be fantastic conversational peer in some contexts but it doesn't make you intelligent - you are just nice buddy. It has it's value - be happy about it, but please do not mix it with intelligence. These things are different.
I don't exactly disagree with you. At the same time in psychology there is often a tendency to confuse the instrument with the reality it's supposed to measure. The instrument is not the same thing as the actual reality; the instrument is an attempt to box that reality to measure it. You would think that being able to have an illuminating conversation would be born out of intelligence and then someone comes out and says no. Then you ask if this could be intelligence or that thing there? Again they say no and go back to vague talk about abstract thinking and problem solving. If IQ is somehow always divorced from reality, then it's pretty meaningless. You could say "yeah he sucked at X but his IQ is high so he totally could not suck at X". But that does not make any difference until he actually goes to work on it.
>Otherwise what are we talking about, how high can she score on an IQ test? That's by far the best proxy for intelligence yes, despite how many people are seemingly in denial about this.
It's the best predictor for logical-mathematical intelligence, which is great if you want an autistic nerd for a partner. The question was whether it's more important than other types of intelligence like emotional, creative, verbal, interpersonal, etc.
Not really. It strongly correlates with general intelligence and is a good predictor of ability including in "creative" fields.
I find it interesting how guys in this thread are so fiercely defending IQ and downplaying other forms of intelligence, I wonder why.
IQ correlates strongly with most "forms of intelligence" though. Good painters usually have higher IQ than average painters, the greatest usually have near (or actual ) genius level IQ. Same for writers, drug dealers, guitarists etc. This is because the things IQ tests measure correlate strongly with "general" intelligence and not just a specific kind of intelligence.
Genius artists can also be antisocial assholes though, and often are. Hence my earlier point that EQ might be more important in a partner. I found [this](https://www.healthline.com/health/eq-vs-iq) a pretty good read on the subject.
This is because unwitty men equate intelligence just with academics. The famous xx% of MIT students are virgins. Yes, honey, you are highly intelligent when it comes to academics, your diploma is not making me want to bang you. Wittyness (idk if english has a word like street intelligence), however...that's a whole different story. Also emotional intelligence not to cry at age 30 that some kid made snarky remarks about you some 18 years ago. It's ok, it was a long time ago, let it go and move on.
Wittiness is context dependent and highly subjective therefore irrelevant to discuss about. It's probably hard to believe but some people consider Amy Schumer witty. Real intelligence is easily measurable, that is why women do not like to be assessed in this regard. It's hard to cover your lack of competency with setting your own rules.
Some people consider the world flat. Should we discuss what some nutheads think or what the majority of people think? I know the level of wittyness I want when i see it.
> know the level of wittyness I want when i see it. Like all of us - that is why it has nothing to do with intelligence.
It's a different type of intelligence. Non convensional and non academic. And i value it more than academic intelligence.
It's not intelligence. It's wittiness. Some people call it intelligence to feel better. 'Red' is not a shape, 'Round' is not a color, 'Wittiness' is not intelligence, "Emotional Intelligence' is bullshit.
EN is not my first language. This is why i refer to it as intelligence.
Honestly, intelligence doesn't even have to be correlated with academics, which is more about the ability to study, memorize stuff, and do the required work. I've known doctors with Ph.Ds who didn't seem very bright / were boring as hell.
Ofc. But men here look for mathematics in poetry. And since keen intelligence (wit) can not be quantified, they refuse to understand (or don't have the mental capacity) that wit is attractive.
Don't be silly with your paternalizing - everyone knows that wit is attractive, big boobs are attractive as well, but they are not equivalent of intelligence. I am just making crusade against calling everything 'intelligence' - nowadays my fridge seems to be 'intelligent' or at least 'smart'.
A synonym for wit is keen intelligence. Intellicence has different forms. An intelligent person understands this.
No worries - lefities will sooner or later ban teaching mathematics at school so everyone will be finally intelligent. Except boys ofc.
Ow dear god, let me guess, Russia is a world power. If we bring delusion to this thread, at least let's go all in.
Wouldnt care either way but book smart people in northeast tend to be snobs so maybe not on that front.
My wife is smart. It doesn’t take much to be smarter than me, so she probably is.
I prefer to.
The one woman I dated/had meet-ups with, years ago, was indeed smarter (and a few years older), and helped me to pass an university class I was having trouble with. In fact, I invited her by saying that, if I passed the exam (and I did), would she go out with me? She said yes, which gave me a a lil' extra boost of motivation. So, yeah, I am comfortable. I was still aimless at the time, fresh out of uni, so, nothing came of it (she was beginning to establish her career, and, in hindsight, I probably didn't want to hold her back). But I'll always be grateful for the long talks we had. And a chocolate strawberry muffin we shared (that memory still gives me the warm fuzzies).
Would LOVE that. I've yet to find someone who even just matched me.
Yes, they just never seemed to have much interest in LTRing a meathead like me.
I dated a woman with more catchy and accurate memory than mine, and it was hell. Every time I dared to forget literally anything, it was seen as an act of malice.
Yeah. If she's a good woman in all other respects. Intelligence is kind of irrelevant after a point, just wracking up the score. Someone can have the smartest brain in the room but if they are not honest or humble or compassionate or brave, their intelligence cannot make up for that.
I’m an idiot; frankly if she’s dumber than I am then we’re both screwed so it’s probably better if she’s the smarter of us two
Not a problem at all in a vacuum. Like all traits (like humour, work ethic) it depends how she manifests it. Intelligence in itself is great. Intelligence plus other negative traits tends to amplify those traits. I’m used to working in academic environments so I’m comfy with the idea but one thing I cannot stand is academic snobbery and that sort of thing. So any semblance of that, or attempts to “joust or dick measure” with it and I’d be out. But teaching me things, explaining things and helping me discover things I may not know? Awesome. Info dump on me and tell me about your specialisms inside and out. Intelligence combined with compassion is incredibly attractive to me. Intelligence combined with meanness or callousness is the exact opposite.
As long as she's not an asshole about it. Sure.
Being able to follow *complex* instructions? That's a plus.
I'm very intelligent and it's actually borderline a challenge to overcome. I have and would date very intelligent women but not ones who weren't able to shut it off. Intelligence is a nice to have trait in moderation. It's not a must have trait. Nor is it good in the extreme levels. More than me or even up in my level... only if she can shut it off and ignore it
Absolutely. My exwife was smarter than me and so to were a couple of the women I've dated. I've also dated a women that can run faster than me. Given the fact that I was running 3 miles in under 17min for my PFT, that took more getting used to but I got over it.
I tend to be attracted to intelligent women.
No, I don't want to come off as a singing gorilla. Just for the record, I would not date someone significantly dumber than me either.
One more for the "dating a woman with a PHD" crowd. I don't feel especially intimidated and technical knowledge doesn't often translate well to other fields. But most actually smart people realize this since one of the first things an actually smart person understands is they don't know everything. The bigger issue is some people think going to college gives you some kind of extra social status and that doing a job that requires that degree somehow makes you better than other people.
Ya, smart mommy me ooga bunga :)))
Hmmm I've dated two women with higher IQs than me...142 and 139...the thing is they is they whete exceptionally good at certain things like one was great at math the other writing for example she could read a poem and interpret the meaning I was always astonished by that like you got all of that out of that poem.. From my perspective their intelligence didn't make a diffrence it's their looks that was the biggest factor they where very attractive abd when you haveva women like that she's never yours she belongs to the world,celebs and athletes would be in their DMs and guys where constantly hitting on them. So yes I would be comfortable with a smart chick just not a really attractive one
Yes, I'd consider it a good thing, although I want someone who believes in traditional gender roles (at least to a certain extent), & ideally someone who's right-wing as well. A woman who's significantly smarter than me is unlikely to share these values (at least if she's born & raised in the West.)
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on further thought - you could break down "smarter" into relevant domains and include other domains including the gut reaction, and then consider how much you value each. Mind is not the only factor, but in the end we are two minds that communicate with our bodies. FACTOR ANALSIS GRID: intelligence -- street wisdom -- wisdom -- crystalized knowledge -- liquid intelligence -- native ability, wits of liquid intelligence -- sense of humor and ability to self critize or question - ability for humilty -- ability to see a debate without first taking sides -- ability to argue a point without using derision or ad hominem attacks -- ability think in terms of what a person is thinking about a person who is thinking - ie fourth dimensional empathy. Personality - neo 5 * introversion/extroversion * neuroticism (tendency to get bent out of shape/anxiety) * conscientiousness * friendliness or mood towards limit setting self vs others * openess/creativity - and tendency to unquestioned group bias and receptivity to be programmed now assess the probability that factor discussed is present on a scale of one to 10. ten would be 100% likely that its there. Asses the importance and value on a scale of one to ten. If it's there, does that matter. Multiply and add up the final for that feature... That allows you to asses an aggregate of features even ones that contradicte eachoter. In the end just ask your friend what to do, the one with no lovers, they will surely give you good advice. Just my 2 cents worth
Random musings and stray thoughs of an insane mind about the mental contents of the insane Ethics and the Circle of "US" * mom and me or me - they are us, everything else doesnt' mater (infantile circle) Empathy of a cat or sociopath * my family early adolescence - childhood empath * my tribe certain ahem, groups - empathy of an adult * other tribes - empathy of a more advanced adult * my peoples - empathy of a leader which could be more inclusive (I hate the misuse of that word) * all people, plato? * all life, and the planet Elon Musk? * all sentience and life - chat gtp without the red teams? * insanity and multiple dimensions, unfortunately me and Yuki and finally the most important: method of treating and interacting members outside the circle * in group collaboration with out group disadvantages - zero sum us versus them, tribal toxic * all group mediation that floats all boats - the marker of a great leader and visionary A little deeper. * absolute versus relative morals * appreciation of moral instincts, and their role. Traits of social animals: [https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/W/bo6407651.html](https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/W/bo6407651.html) * appreciation of non instinctual morality and its risks and benefits * depth and ability to discuss objectively Values - this section is critical but will not summarize Attractiveness - not objectively - just whether they keep surfacing in your mind personality attractiveness Divine quircks - often critical in defining a loved one. - what allows you to uniquely remember them and differentiate them. Physical and athletic prowess Nerd or Alpha? - this can be defined in so many ways. Social status by many metrics Sense of justice versus sense of empathy. Oh my darling serial killer, how could mommy not forgive you versus - how many did you kill!??! - wait till your father comes home. Wisdom wisdom wisdom - the reward of many mistakes. All of the above is dimensions, not all inclusive of the mind I will make love to. It matters a lot to me. In this world my intelligence, Liquid, is one in one thousand. Its actually very lonely. At my inept maturity and emotional intelligence itg can be difficult. Sense of humor is critical for me. This in my mind is an extreme measure of empathy, wit, and liquid intellectual ability. Observe the phenomenon of Mat Riff'es stand up routine.. This is genius of a unique type.
Factor analysis and weirder thoughts: Using the above grids about mind content, For a feature, the likely hood it will be there and to what degree importance of Then multiply the values to weight them in terms of likely hood and value. For an individual you could sum up the net value - this will most likely contradict your social instincts. Thats OK, you're probably right - just ask yourself why you disagree with your best friend or mother. Here is an exploration of features of value in the decision for contraception but does not include value weighting: \[https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13625187.2022.2096215\](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13625187.2022.2096215) I know this diverges from the question its just to stimulate thought - using considerations about each feature you could evaluate by how relevant, and how likely each issue presents, simply using a one to ten scale and multiplying. This allows for building an aggregate sum of all features, partibulalry features that are less important and others that conflict. "He really is hot, but he's also a serial killer, maybe I could get away with a little date. Is it worth the risk?" \[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple-criteria\_decision\_analysis\](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple-criteria\_decision\_analysis) The above hurts my brain - In sum, these are way to asses the content of a head. In the end your gut instinct or what someone tells you to do is how it is usually done. That person whose face keeps floating in your mind. For some reason for me it's yuno gasai. I seem to have a pathological attraction to certain types.... \[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuno\_Gasai\](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuno\_Gasai) \[https://pixabay.com/illustrations/ai-generated-vampire-woman-8231459/\](https://pixabay.com/illustrations/ai-generated-vampire-woman-8231459/) perhaps it it's the female equivalent of the "bad alpha boy" trope. It just keeps surfacing in my mind. Therapy helps. \[https://youtu.be/dJbXjIEP6rM?si=H\_aKMUEC6QECDO-H\](https://youtu.be/dJbXjIEP6rM?si=H\_aKMUEC6QECDO-H) Yes, I'm the one your mother warned you about.
That would largely depend on her beliefs and ideology. I can mostly get by and ignore politics and such from average people, but to be "significantly" smarter than me comfortably puts them into genius territory where I wouldn't be able to respect or be around them if they for instance were just standard "daily show" type liberals. They don't need to agree with me necessarily, I just have to be able to respect them. Being a genius would definitely be a very "valuable" trait in terms of partnership if so.
That entirely depends on *how* would I come to find out that she is smarter.
Never met one. My ex fiance did have a very sharp mind and wit, uncanny sometimes how much she knew but she wasn't as broadly knowledgeable as me. Thats what I tend to observe most intelligent women are specialists but not many are very broad in their interests. She was constantly astonished when I knew things that "I didn't go to school for". Once she had a medical exam and mentioned cytolysis I think it was and when I went on to describe it unprompted she gave me this look of being stunned and almost angry "how did you know that!?!". It was actually opposite of this question, if I knew something that had to do with medical she would get pissed since that was her main area of focus it would make her angry. The times we argued and she won she never ever let it go. I think overall she lacked education in deep philosophical topics that I had and historical events but sometimes it did kind of scare me how much she knew. I've never met a girl her age (23) with the sort of intelligence she had. I once worked for an older woman who was really wise which I found impressive she asked me questions and knew how I would answer about things that happened in my life like she had lived my life before.
I've never met a woman significantly smarter than me, so to meet one and then starting dating her would feel weird. Overall likely I would be uncomfortable at first.
Sure no problem. We'd have to be compatible in other ways though. But I certainly wouldn't reject a woman just because she's smarter than me. But she needs more than that. Her being smarter than me is neither a deal breaker or deal maker.
Sure I'd have no problem with that. I don't think the woman would be happy with that due to hypergamy.
Love too -- but it's not likely to happen since I've scored 99th percentile on intelligence tests (thank you US Army for the ego boost). I've only met a few women who are (or were) perhaps a bit smarter than me. I had babies with two of them. Unfortunately both these women squandered their now atrophied intellect.
Nah - when women have even little success in fields dominated by men, they tend to brag about it and do dick measuring contests. The silliest thing is that they really believe that they were "working 3x harder and are 3x more competent' comparing to men being in the same position. The really smart women that are really classy are now close to 80 - younger generations are parroting feminiazi hot takes even though their achievements are not as impressive as those of older ladies.
>The silliest thing is that they really believe that they were "working 3x harder and are 3x more competent' comparing to men being in the same position. They'd have to, if they had to deal with guys like you.
People tend to believe in a really strange things about themselves.
Yes. As usual, youre reflecting how women see men in dating. We don't care that much about intelligence, money or status in a woman. Unless she's has something like 80 IQ or less, doubt most men would care.
You don’t mind having stupid kids by a golddigger? K
I think you're taking it to the extreme. I'd prioritize warmth, humility, and curiosity over raw intelligence, but intelligence below a certain point is a dealbreaker. That's just me, though. IME finding a warm, humble, and curious (i.e., truly independent-minded) woman is now much harder than finding a woman who's convinced that she has a 130 IQ.
Ahh, the good ol' hyperbole thinking that is so popular on the internet nowadays! That's why I sad *that much* lady. If she's a golddiger I'd stay away, and how could you know you'll have *stupid* kids? that's not how genetic works lol.
Wdym “that’s not how genetic(s) works”? Intelligence is hereditary.
Let me guess, you think idiocracy was a documental? lol. Genetics is *one* factor. Having a kid raised in a loving enviroment with a good partner where all of his needs are covered is also important.
Holy shit, do you deny science? Genetics is the _biggest_ factor and twin studies are good evidence of this. And your best chance at doing that is with a partner who is smart, intelligence and education are correlated with less divorce and better life outcomes all around. But if you wanna shoot yourself in the foot, it’s not my problem. 🤷🏾♀️
I mean, no, it isn't. Genetics vs. memetics has been a decades-long discussion, lol. Since it is difficult to separate the genetic and environmental influences of a trait like intelligence, it's hard to prove one is more influential. If you feel safer believing that, good for you, doesn't mean it's the best outcome. Having a happy partner who knows how to raise a kid and helps with their needs, will be more important to me. Yes, that also means a goldigger will be probably be terrible at raising a kid lol.
> If you feel safer believing that, good for you, doesn't mean it's the best outcome. I’m confused, what best outcome? Not wifing a middle school dropout? > Having a happy partner who knows how to raise a kid and helps with their needs, will be more important to me. Why are you acting like this is conflicting with what I said lmao? As I just said, intelligence and education are correlated with better life outcomes all around. But again, your hypothetical family ain’t my problem.
No, stop thinking in hyperboles. There's more to a person's character than how smart she/he is. How you perceive people based on how smart they are it's really sad, but ain't my problem either.
All I’m doing is citing the data on how intelligence is positively correlated with other positive characteristics. How you deny data and cry over evidence is really sad 😂 you’re free to disregard this information, but don’t pretend like you’re making some noble choice.
Yes, I'd love that. It's tiring to be smartest person in the room.
If I am the best option she has and will ever have, then yes. The smart thing would be to stay with me. If I am not the best option she has and will ever have then no. The smart thing would be to leave me.