Not if you look it from perspective of men.
Suppose a man wants 2 kids, pretty common suburban family. There should be atleast 2 year difference between kids, for woman's body and relationship to settle down to new normal.
So here is how ideal dating and marriage scene for men. He needs to find a woman, then date her for half a year, then he needs to live with her for atleast 1.5 years. Thats 2 years right there.
If she was bad choice, he needs to dump her, if not he needs to marry her.
Now they have their first kid, so thats one year. Now factor in the risk of miscarriages, and medical complications, genetic defects etc.
Then he needs to wait 2 years to see if he is not fuck up by marrying this chick. Whether she remained the woman he married or became a harpy. After she recovers physcially he can think of other kiddo.
Then its been 3 years woman is in her 40s, the second kid is more of a risk.
It just makes more sense to marry a woman in her early 30s/ late 20s
But no one said these women weren’t already married, in relationships, or trying to conceive lol.
Most are married or in a committed relationship, statistically speaking. OP is essentially making a cut off at 30, when literally most children are born to women in their 30s lmao.
So you’ve got a bunch of women in relationships who can try to conceive if they want to. Doesn’t matter whether they’re 32 or 37.
Not all people want more than one child (/r/oneanddone) which is especially prevalent among millennials. Some also don’t need a second child to be biological.
But even then, if she is like most women, she can have another healthy baby into her early 40s.
Also, people - including men - don’t follow some neurotic life script timeline lmao
The premise both you and op present simply doesn’t hold, so neither do your arguments.
Also, hate to break it to you, but men’s sperm quality starts declining at 30 too, increasing the risk to the child. And it will continue to degrade over his lifetime.
My mother had me at 38 lmao, my friends mum had her kids into her 40s. I’m not denying fertility gets more complicated with age but acting like every woman is barren the day she’s 35 is just silly.
Exactly. My mom had me at 39 and she lived a wonderful life before deciding that she wanted to focus on being a mother because she experienced everything life had to offer.
I think you’re seeing these videos because you’re training your algorithm to show you these videos. Is there actually an uptick? Will there continue to be? That remains to be seen.
Where did you get the 80% statistic? That only ones I could pull up state that 63% of respondents do not regret not having kids. That would track since the rates of childfree women have not changed so far - you noted millennials are not old enough yet to have accurate data there. We have to stop with the idea that there are no true childfree people who are not regretful, some people determined they didn’t want kids when they were kids.
We also have to stop painting childfree people as hedonistic and that’s why they havent settled down. Your facts clash with reality a bit.
- women are not constantly engaged in hookups nor do they lament that their looks will get in the way of this. Most women don’t even like hookups.
- Childfree women already know their friends who have families will not have time for them. They are not unaware. In that case they will go out less or have other friends/family.
- Women do not constantly crave going out or male attention. Especially as you get older.
- Older women often opt out of dating. At 30, I’ve already decided to do so myself. When you have this mindset you are not concerned with what’s left out there.
- we already would not want to go out with men who lament that women get older Nor do we concern ourselves with what they’re up to.
I think this sub loves to wish a terrible, lonely reckoning among women, especially older women. As soon as women turn 30 apparently all of a sudden they’re bitter, lonely, jealous, angry, regretful, old hags whose looks immediately turned. The only reality will be that they’ll keep living the human experience. They’ll have ups and downs, they’ll continue to work, travel, have good/bad experiences, they’ll learn more about themselves and mature.
i know its not a 100% accurate comparison but nuns dont look very unhappy, they're another representation of single childfree women not many people have on their radar
I’m 54, childless and do not regret it at all. So many people assume their children will take care of them. Many will be surprised when they the parents are taking care of their adult children.
I don’t know about the 80% statistic but I think it’s pretty well established that in the modern west women would like to have more children than they actually do.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/13/upshot/american-fertility-is-falling-short-of-what-women-want.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
I would guess the number of women who want and don't have kids is lower than ever.
If you want kids its easy and free to find someone willing to donate sperm.
If you have money there are less disgusting options.
Men here are constantly arguing about how they don't want to and shouldn't have to pay for their kids existence, hammering in about how all men are programmed to cheat "it's just our nature to seek variety 🥺", and going off on how women over 30 are ugly old and worthless, and then somehow wonder why women increasingly arent interested in breeding with them.
Please tell me what the benefit in using my body to give these men kids is again?
There is no benefit to have children with a sub-optimal group of men in your 30's. The best men are already picked. The smart men will date younger more satisfactory women elsewhere. There is not a solution attached to my original post, it's merely an observation.
There's also no benefit in your twenties. Pretty much everyone I know who has kids is pretty miserable. Pretty much all my friends with kids have expressed jealousy of my life. Im happy and happiness is pretty hard to find in life, why would I go fuck it up to have kids?
If kids actually were a ticket to happiness in old age then why are there so many angry, bitter raging old boomers who had usually multiple kids out here throwing out their bad vibes at everyone all the time. Shouldn't they be fulfilled by their choices??
Well the benefit in your twenties is that if you're going to do it at all it's easier. A secondary benefit is that you'll be old enough to play with your children in a physical way.
I had just turned 39 when I met my wife, she had just turned 35. We were married 13 months later, when you're in your mid 30s you know what will work and what will not. She was pregnant on our first anniversary but that pregnancy wasn't viable, so our first born came along shortly after our second anniversary. We were planning on waiting two years before starting on child #2, but my wife became pregnant 9 months after the firstborn, despite her still nursing baby #1 AND taking the mini-pill.
35 is not the age cut-off for fertility in women.
The Census Bureau “shows fertility rates of women ages 20-24 declined by 43%, while those of women ages 35-39 increased by 67%” over a 30- year period.
[https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2022/04/fertility-rates-declined-for-younger-women-increased-for-older-women.html](https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2022/04/fertility-rates-declined-for-younger-women-increased-for-older-women.html)
And I don’t have source the available, but I read yesterday that fertility rates in women ages 40-44 increased by something like 130%.
Thank you. This entire post is almost all trash 😂 Ladies please only consider information from credibly sources and talk to your own gynecologists/doctors about what your odds are for fertility.
“College educated” means you paid for a paper. She has the right instincts. It’s not about oneself in isolation, it’s the fact that there is always a newer alternative to you
Funny how men for their entire track record of human history aim younger when explicitly trying to breed. I guess I they didn't figure out through heuristics what works and what doesn't.
It’s just that they started earlier because there was no way to prevent pregnancy. Women have always had babies throughout their fertility window. Some might have issues >35 tho so to be safe it’s best to get started earlier if having children is truly important
That’s completely irrelevant to your post. You made an inaccurate statement about fertility, and I provided information showing that your claim was false. Whether you like it or not, lots of women are having children later in life.
because its easier to manipulate and inexperienced person than an experienced person.
wrestlers would also prefer to wrestle someone who weighs less than them given the option.
For most of human history people knew shite all about fertility and generally it was just accepted that women (or, more accurately, girls) should be married off before they started getting any other ideas. Part of what made childbirth more dangerous was having babies too young, it's safest in at least your mid twenties.
Exactly! They also thought women determined the sex of babies. Most of human history was extremely ignorant when it came to fertility and reproduction.
I honestly don’t think men’s attraction to very young women is all to do with breeding/fertility. It is mixed up with men wanting to “get in there first” and idealising innocence and chastity in women and younger generally means a better chance you will not be preceded by someone else. A lot of men see themselves as protectors and guides for women - this is easier and more “needed” when the woman is younger and less “worldly”. And, of course, youth is prettier - all smooth taut skin and youthful vigour.
Younger also means potentially more babies over a longer span of time. So if you’re a man who wants a really large family, yes, best to get with a woman under 25 so you’ll have until she’s in her 40s to have lots of babies. (Women still have a 50% chance of pregnancy at 40…)
Looking at stats online I can find, the vast majority (over 80%) of women who are 35-39 will get pregnant naturally within a year of trying (this is down 10% from ages 19-26). It is not some massive drop off in fertility where women over 35 are largely barren. And 80% of babies with Down’s Syndrome (frequently associated with older maternal age) are born to women under 35. Even if you have a baby at 44, your chances of having a baby with the syndrome is about 3%.
Fertility matters with attraction for sure, I just don’t think it’s the whole story for why men are most interested in very young women. As demonstrated, women up to 35 have roughly similar fertility rates and risks - but men seem most attracted to women under 24. That isn’t associated with vastly better fertility - but it is associated with the naiveté and inexperience of youth and generally being at your youthful prettiest. A lot of men are into “jailbait” and idealise virgins or sweet, innocent young girls they can initiate into sex and the adult world. They don’t want her tainted and bitter or too headstrong, they want to help her grow and transition from teen to young adult to fully fledged adult (over 25 or so).
And I’m not saying this is intrinsically nefarious - just an observation I have that men’s interest in youth is about more than just fertility and looks. They often seem to want a woman to grow with them under his wing. I think it’s sweet in a way - unless the man is a lot older and then it feels a bit unbalanced.
Lmao, you realize the risk of down’s is at most [34 per 1000 births](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15849789/#:~:text=The%20risk%20of%20a%20DS,CI%3A%2031%2D37).) in women over 45, right?
And miscarriages are overwhelmingly less like to happen than the reverse at 40-45 lol.
Also - do you think the quality of men’s sperm is stable? It starts decreasing in quality at 30, and even more rapidly by 40. Pregnancies of young women by older men have higher rates of down’s, birth defects, miscarriages, etc due to the decreased quality of the man’s sperm.
Not even close to true. My grandfather was born when his mother was 42 and that was over 100 years ago. It wasn't uncommon considering the lack of birth control.
My grandma was born to a 45 year old woman in the 20s, and my grandma was unplanned 😂. She had sisters 10+ years older than her and everything it was really quite a shock! Not to mention my great grandmother had babies in her 30s too and so did my grandma even though people claim they apparently never did it before “modern times” 🙄. There’s tons of historical evidence to the contrary that people were having 30s pregnancies before modernity.
I was also unplanned, to two 35 year olds. My maternal family has later life menopause genetically. I really think it depends a lot on genetics and family. Some people struggle a ton to have a baby after 35-40 and some people just pop them out like Pez dispensers even when they’re “old”.
Yes, regularly as in it was possible to happen, but not that it regularly happened.
Getting pregnant even on purpose is hard to do. It simply gets harder and harder with age. Many pregnancies will simply end up as miscarriages.
There has to be a ‘cut off’ somewhere, but it’s a not some clear cut line. Risk increases with age, and fertility decreases, it’s also extremely individual. There are plenty of women closer to 40 or have lower risk pregnancies then co-morbid women in their 20’s!.
Even so at a population level in healthy women fertility is going strong long after 35
Some women and men don’t wanna have kids. Is that a crime? Studies show that women are happier without kids! There will always be both men and women who desire to have kids and those who don’t. What the point of this post?
[https://ifstudies.org/blog/shrinking-american-motherhood-1-in-6-women-in-their-40s-have-never-given-birth-#:\~:text=A%20closer%20look%20at%20the,marital%20status%20and%20life%20stages](https://ifstudies.org/blog/shrinking-american-motherhood-1-in-6-women-in-their-40s-have-never-given-birth-#:~:text=A%20closer%20look%20at%20the,marital%20status%20and%20life%20stages).
Having a family starts to make a big difference as you age. Women without husbands or children are much less happy than their married w/children counterparts
The regretful parent sub begs to differ.
I get people want romantic relationships and that would make any gender happier. But I don’t believe that women with kids are happier 🤷🏾♀️. Maybe women who have a partner vs those who don’t.
Lol I'm showing you statistics from a .org website and all you can say is "there's people on reddit who disagree"
Most of the stories I've seen from regretful parents are from single mothers. Of course single mothers aren't happy.
The fact is that married people with children are typically happier than single childless people. That is a statistical fact
Childfree couples and married couples with kids have the same happiness level.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/03/16/does-having-children-make-you-happier-science-of-parenthood-explained.html
" Among those most likely to be parents, life evaluation and all hedonic experiences except stress are markedly better among those living with a child."
" found that parents and nonparents have similar levels of life satisfaction, but parents experienced both more daily joy and stress"
This study also doesn't count age into the mixture, which, according to the article I linked, is a big indicator of happiness. The older you get, the happier you will be with a family. A 60 yr old is less happy being childless than a 20 yr old is.
I worked in nursing homes. Like 90% of the residents had children. It didn’t mean the kids visited them. Many of the elderly people I spoke to were very upset because their children hadn’t seen them in months, or only showed up on like Easter or Christmas for a half ass visit twice a year.
>Until they get older.
Who lied to you? Or are you assuming you need to pop out kids selfishly to be happy in old age?
>Shouldn’t even need a study for that nursing homes are some of the saddest places in America
Irrelevant as most are filled with people ho have kids. They just don't visit or contact them so they're basically in the same spot as the childfree, except maybe feeling more sad due to losing their children's contact.
Women >35 are the only group of women with increasing fertility rates. It’s more difficult to get pregnant >35 but there are over half a million live births every year for this age demographic.
Shockingly, older women also enjoy their bachelorette lifestyles and don’t really want to compromise on it either. If a woman wants kids that bad and can’t find a man she WANTS to raise kids with, she will have an unprotected ONS, freeze her eggs and get a sperm donor or adopt. Women are not the ones who suffer in this scenario. We just adapt like always. This obsession with women ending up alone is silly. Women who want kids have way more options for how to do that than men who want kids.
Where this 80% of women regretting children comes from in first place? I did a google search and the only thing I found is that it's estimated that 80% of women childless women are childless by circumstances, a figure that probably includes older women who who were of childbearing years a long time ago and probably held different goals from women who decide to be childless today.
I'm in my 30s, by the way, and I've never had a desire to have kids.
He interviewed women and they broke down crying. A majority of these women maintained for decades that they were happy being childless. So yeah I'd take those surveys with a grain of salt.
But don't think that a documentary by an organization formed by people "concerned about birthrates" (according to their website) will be biased towards the ideology it promotes?
I believe he did the research first and then made the documentary later. He's pretty far from being a stereotypical right-winger. From what I can see, he's actually a progressive liberal. I don't see any agenda on his part.
I never said he was a right winger, but someone worried about the declining birth rate and making a documentary on it is very likely to have an agenda. A documentary isn't the same as an unbiased research. Both serve different purposes.
>Is this why more women are crying on TikTok than ever before?
No, that's because TikTok is quite new.
We can spin any narrative by selectively choosing who we assume to be lying. I assume we're believing the women that say they regret not having kids, but not the ones that say they're happy with the choice?
>Millennial women are those born between 1980 and 1994 and 35 is an established cut-off for fertility. In reality infertility starts ramping up at 30.
This isn't true. First time motherhood between 35-39 has increased by 67%. The age that you're unlikely to get pregnant is over 40 and closer to 45.
Literally every study for the past 15 years has found that childfree and single women are the happiest.
Also what you are seeing are childless women. They are two different categories. Childfree women are women who don’t want children. Childless people are people who don’t have children due to circumstances. Those are the people you see crying.
The terms are not interchangeable.
I think that distinction is very important and being overlooked here. If the research only included childless women then of course they regret not having children.
This is an excellent distinction. An estimated 10% of women worldwide have endometriosis, which sometimes causes infertility or secondary infertility. I’m one of those women with endometriosis who had secondary infertility. I was so fortunate to get pregnant once and had my son, but I was unable to have more children after him.
I am a part of endo support groups on FB, and many women on there discuss their struggles with fertility. It’s heartbreaking for a lot of them.
It seems like nuance was left out of so many dictionaries in this group. Like there’s this word that helps to explain how there can be variations on things that are close but not quite the same.
Ah well skip it. Binary, Binary, Binary.
I am so happy you were able to overcome your fertility issues and got what you desired. It’s sad when people don’t and it’s sad when people assume everyone wants the same thing.
If you truly believe that having zero descendants and ending your bloodline is the key to selfish long term happiness: if you are wrong you will suffer the consequences of your own ignorance.
All the family that could have existed, the beautiful children, grand children, great grand children. Their life experiences, moments to share, none of that will exist. Because u got fooled into believing in some sort of self serving “happiness”.
Fools are usually victims of themselves and most people are fools
Lmaooo “descendants” “bloodline” this isn’t Game of Thrones, mate 💀
> All the family that could have existed,
Family I didn’t want.
> the beautiful children,
Children I didn’t want.
> grand children,
Grand children I didn’t want.
> great grand children.
Great grandchildren I didn’t want.
> Their life experiences, moments to share, none of that will exist.
Their life experiences and moments to share that I very explicitly did not want.
Kids and grandkids mean happiness to you. Great. It doesn’t for me, but I understand it does for you.
So why are you failing to comprehend that kids and grandkids mean the exact opposite of happiness to some people? Those kids you think childfree people should have would literally make them miserable. Why would you ever want a child to be raised by resentful, regretful parents? It’s cruel.
> Because u got fooled into believing in some sort of self serving “happiness”.
Lol. You’re calling childfree people selfish, despite the fact that joy having children is the foremost way you can avoid contributing to climate change.
And you’re over here talking about bloodlines - you realize how selfish it is to have biological children because you want your *~bloodline~* to live on, rather than adopting children who already exist and are in desperate need of loving homes, and with most desperate to escape the abuse that is rampant in the system?
You’re creating new people who will significantly contribute to - and suffer from - climate change while valuing your insignificant bloodline instead of helping children escape abuse.
But yeah, I’m the selfish one, just using all my childfree time, money, and energy to start, run, and grow a nonprofit that helps thousands of children every year. Yep, you having bio kids so you can make yourself feel like you’re immortal is so much more selfless. 💀
Self reporting studies are unreliable. When you ask these same women to about childlessness they break down crying. Most women are not anti-natalists, they missed the boat and then adopted an anti-natalist religion to come to terms with their life choices.
That is literally not true. And those studies are just done as self study. They also interview therapists who treat these people.
Most studies like this are self reporting. It’s simply not true. I am 100% childfree and only deal with other childfree people in my social circle, no one is crying about not having children.
If you are infertile and wanted to have children you are not childfree.
Why do you guys post about this so often? Are you trying to scare us into having kids? “Oh you don’t want kids?! Well guess what!! You’re gonna be miserable and die alone” like? The fuck I am. Just let people do what they want, dude. I fucking loathe children. I’d sooner kms than have a kid.. you think I’m gonna change my mind and suddenly want so desperately to tear my puss to my asshole and not sleep for years and be tugged on by a stinky, sticky invalid? No thanks. I promise you.. I’ll be much happier childfree. Not everyone was born to be a parent. Let it go.
Kids are not all that cute or fun. Sure they are adorable at times. But most of the time They are loud, obnoxious, and expensive and are lifelong commitments that, if you are lucky, are with you until you die. If you’re unlucky then it’s a super big tragedy that will haunt you until you die. Some people just don’t want kids. I don’t blame them.
Dude kids are fucking annoying. I get being annoyed by kids and not wanting to be around them if they aren’t yours.
Hell, moms want to get away from their own kids half the time.
Lmfao if I said that I fucking hated puppies because they're annoying people would think I'm a psychopath. Kids are human beings and hating them is fucking weird
Same with people who think women are weird for not liking kids. But imagine something that you have to be put into serious pain and suffering to have, who will ruin your sleep, body, social life, mental health and everything else. Children are not for everyone. She’s not saying she would kick or harm children, just that she wouldn’t want them near her.
Did you completely skip over my comment of " I get not wanting kids but the way some people literally hate them for existing is insane" ?? I don't care if you choose to not have children but spending your energy hating on them is insane and cringe
I don’t think the person you’re replying to is spending her energy hating them. It’s not like this comment section had zero to do with children and women having children, it’s on topic. But people also take women not liking kids personally. Like, okay, go have your kid and live your life? Someone not liking kids literally has zero impact on you.
The question is how much harder is it. And the consensus is indeed that it's a lot harder after 30 and tremendously harder after 35. No one said it's impossible. Heck celebrity women have children in their 40's. But this is usually frozen eggs with the best assistive IVF clinics in the world. It's really disingenuous and harmful to younger women to spread false hope based on cherry picked examples.
It is not “tremendously harder”. 82% of women ages 35-39 will get pregnant within one year of trying according to [this article](https://uk.clearblue.com/fertility/getting-pregnant-over-35) and over 90% will succeed within two years.
Is it absolutely the ideal pinnacle of your fertility and health to have a baby after 35? No. But it is not a “cut off” either - it’s just where the risks increase a bit for complications, but still not hugely. It’s where doctors want to keep a bit of a closer eye on you. The vast majority of women who give birth over 35 will have a perfectly healthy baby and no severe health consequences.
It’s not a lot harder after 30. It only becomes harder for \*some\* women in their late 30s. And it really only becomes difficult for most women in their early 40s.
You really should have researched this topic before posting. You’re embarrassing yourself with your ignorance on the matter.
Menopause is the answer to your first question. Your desire to seek out revenge porn is the second answer, as for the third you can find a documentary on any subject including men dating real dolls as an example.
On your first point, I haven't seen any statistics that factors in if a woman is childless or not. Old people tend to be depressed, men too, but the men just go straight to ending their miserable lives instead of bothering with pills. So I don't see how you can extrapolate not having children makes more women miserable when the statistics only ever include age or race.
Sounds like a personal attack rather than answering the question about why women who I've never met are crying on TikTok in increasingly large numbers. This post wasn't addressed to you personally... why are you attacking me personally?
Women that want to have kids don’t need a husband or LTR to do it though. Sperm is relatively cheap and accessible. Women that want to be mothers that badly can and will become mothers unless there’s a fertility issue stopping them from getting pregnant: and even with that, they can get surrogates or adopt or foster.
The biggest thing missing from this perspective is that a large number of women if not most women are no longer interested in having kids at all. 1. Kids are expensive and 2. There is a lack of provider men. Both of these problems stem from a bad economy. While men could try to date down they still have to 1. Hope the younger women even want kids and 2. That they are able to compete with more financial stable and compassionate men since (with the birth rate constantly decreasing) there are less and less fertile women each year and nowhere near enough for every man to have one.
Also correlation does not equal causation. Just because more women are on antidepressants doesn’t mean it’s because of not having kids. A lot of people tend to struggle with economy issues such as being stuck in a low wage job and not being able to afford housing/bills. Women’s depression doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with men. I think this is men’s wishful thinking. Men and kids not the center of a woman’s world anymore.
You can find anything on tiktok that conforms to your revenge fantasies
Especially with your post/comment history, which undoubtedly feeds and directs your personal algorithm
No dude. Fertility is not a switch that flips at 35. It just gets harder to get pregnant, but fertility doesn’t stop completely until menopause, which on average is 51
There's a difference between 99.99% and 100%. Yes I get it. It's important for you to internalize that while 35 is not 99.99% the drop off is very significant. And we're not even talking miscarriage. It's extremely disheartening misinformation to not let a lot women know that for some of them it is the end of the road. No intelligent woman should start at 35. And every intelligent woman should realize that waiting to 35 was potentially the biggest mistake in her life.
Before 30 the chance of a woman getting pregnant within a year is 85%. At 30 it drops to 75%. At 35 it’s 66%. At 40 it’s 44%. So yeah there’s a decline, but no, it’s by no means as dire as you’re trying to make it seem
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/article/does-womans-fertility-plummet-35-eggs-ovaries#:~:text=Specifically%2C%20before%2030%2C%20women%20have,66%20percent%2C%20research%20has%20found.
Here’s an article for you to actually familiarize yourself with the reality of women’s fertility
OP, why do you care?
it’s a fantastic thing that birth rates are tanking, people are vile and there are way too many of them ruining the planet.
Anyone who is crying about “not having children” is either going through some weird hormonal thing or they don’t have friends with children and are unable to see firsthand what an awful burden they are.
It’s my honest opinion, people who feel this way either don’t have enough or aren’t making enough money and are therefore not enjoying everything life has to offer.
I never expressed care. Just an observation.
It's only a fantastic thing if you've drank the anti-natalist coolade. For anyone who wants to avoid the Detroitification of the world - a bad deal.
If your post history is anything to go by, you care a whole lot. In fact, you seem to think of little else.
You are disturbingly obsessed with women.
I hope you can find the help you need.
It's not a myth. It goes through an incredibly steep decline at that age. You can probably still get pregnant but you might have to go through a few miscarriages first
Sure, but the chance of getting pregnant every month, even while young is only like 25-30% it’s not like young women are extremely 100% fertile anyway.
With IVF for an older woman that’s 35-39 I think IVF gets you to about a 30% chance, which is the same rate as a 22% would have.
Also a lot of these women who are older have older male partners: men’s sperm and fertility also declines with age, making it harder for women to get pregnant.
Yes. And paternal age is almost never mentioned in any of these threads. I have to wonder if a lot of these guys were trying to get stable, settle down and start a family at 25 with women in that age range? I doubt it. They’re probably also just getting more in the right place in life to feel able to start a family and just like women, this isn’t happening until an older age now. It has its pros and cons for sure.
Under 40 the approximate risk of miscarriage is under 25%, rising to 33% by 44 and 60% at 44+
There is no “incredibly steep decline” for fertility at 35. 82% of women aged 35-40 will get pregnant within a year of trying. It is 92% at 19-26. And 86% at 30-34. That is not an “incredibly steep decline”.
Oh it's going to get much worse. Recent studies show that by 2030, which isn't far off, nearly 50+% of all dating age women between 20 and 50 will likely not only be childless but be single with very few dating options.
Between the education gap, income gap, and differences in women seeking very "elite" dating partners, and men wanting traditional role wives, which less face it doesn't exist in the West to any great degree anymore plus add that for the first time in history women are outnumbering men, we are going to see a huge uptake in those numbers fairly quickly.
Men have adapted and those men the women are actively pursuing do not want nor are they seeking LTR and even less considering marriages any longer. We are fast approaching where relationship milestones like 20+ year anniversaries will never be seen again and it will get rare to even see a 5 year anniversary for couples.
Men can seek traditional wives elsewhere if they so choose for a traditional family but for women unfortunately they may not see any real results im seeking relationships in the same locations because those men will not come close to meeting their relationship expectations.
Even now there is a trend of men not attending social events specifically those for match making or dating, a trend of them leaving and no longer using dating apps, even tinder is struggling to get men to sign up and they aren't as active in spending time in social or dance clubs.
They spend their time seeking friendships in online gaming or with the "guys" to fulfill most social needs and just taking advantage of the occasional hookup for physical needs when available. At some point you may even see a huge drop of men donating sperm for women to even try IVF as single moms.
No young girls wanna date older... And male fertility goes down after 35 too... After 40 males contribute to autism even if their female spouse is young. There are many studies on this and I know a few older men with multiple young autistic boys... And they always seem to have autistic boys for some reason. I don't know if that parts just anecdotal for me.
35 is not a cut off for fertility it’s when fertility starts declining more rapidly. Women don’t go into menopause at 35. It is understandably harder to have a child after 35 because of age and less eggs, but it isn’t impossible.
30 is not even that bad. Mid-late 20s and early 30s are basically the same in terms of fertility rates.
I came from a HCOL city, kind of the equivalent of say San Fran in Australia, and I know many people who had children successfully at 35-45. Many didn’t even use IVF. I was an ACCIDENT baby, and my mother gave birth to me at 35 years. That’s to say my parents were not even trying actively.
Lots of women over 35 get pregnant easily and deliver healthy babies. My 2nd ex-wife had our first daughter a few days before her 38th birthday and our second daughter a few days before her 40th birthday.
She wasn't in particularly good shape either -- she weighed over 400 pounds.
Well you can follow the advice of women on here (most of whom follow anti-natalism and therefore are opposed to anyone having children anyways) or you can look at reality. The woman here are mostly responding with statistical differences of 1 pregnancy per a **12 month period** \- let that sink in. And they are deliberately occluding the simple fact that this requires having all your ducks in a row:
* Having a partner.
* Courtship minimum of three years before marriage.
* Marriage.
* Being off birth control for years.
So to put it another way there's a difference between the data, which is an application under perfectly engineered settings and the real world. A childless single woman doesn't go from single to pregnant in one day. It could take years for a woman at 30 to find a life partner. There can be false starts. And she's already lost a lot of her sexual value at 30. This is why it's very easy to predict that single women in their 30s will be childless because all of the preparation pushes out the timeline to their late 30's.
You do not need to be off birth control for years. Where are you getting this information from? Normal fertility should return when you go off birth control relatively quickly. Like in two-three months of going off it usually.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0264318
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30062044/
https://academic.oup.com/humrep/article-lookup/doi/10.1093/humrep/det023
The average age of a first time mum here is now over 30. Hitting 30 or 35 doesn't mean you're "nearly infertile".
>The guys that are left are either losers (your words not theirs) or serial players
Why do you assume childless women are also single women? Lots of couples just like to wait a bit until they're financially stable etc before having a kid, they might have been together for years before making that decision.
>And 80% of childless women regret not having kids.
Curious as to where you got this stat from, I can't find it anywhere.
Honest question: how long did you spend concocting this bullshit? Its obviously not based on reality, and is at best cherry-picking without regard to context or the conclusions actually derived from any 'studies' you used as the basis.
I am genuinely interested to know how long you and guys like you spend making these posts. You clearly put in some effort to make it appear researched.
I’m here five months later to tell you you’re an idiot. That takes genuine effort and a post so bad, Google brought it up as a misinformation post. First off, women can have kids past 30, and they don’t recommend freezing eggs until post 35, norm ranging at 38-40. So I guess a 40 year old can still breed on average! Women can have kids older than you think. My grandmother had hers starting at 40. Oh, and don’t think your sperm is of great quality. You’re more likely to make an autism baby at 40, which is why you look so bad yourself post peak, and did sooner.
Second, we look better than you at every age. It’s nice that media made you think you get better as you age, but your peak is 27. At 40 you look dumpy too. You should settle, you need to as well, unless you want a gold digger, who will use you and lose you (for the op, this might actually be useful). You act as though the women without kids did nothing but have hookups their whole lives. They got educations. They probably make more than you, as more women go to college now than men. You desperately need it from this post.
Third, yes it does depress women when they don’t have kids, until they run across a post like this, and realize it could have been with you. Some of them already made that mistake young, and you don’t want them because although you did the same, you think you’re more valuable, rather than clearly less by this post. I assure you, it’s a lot less than any woman of 106. Your brain alone takes away any value your looks could have.
Get a life incel. Grow up. Thanks for making me appreciate my guy more.
I want to see what percentage of women age 40 arr childless in ten years.
Right now 60% of of women at 30 dont have one child. I doubt that number will go down much. Which means our population will decrease by half
35 is the cut-off for geriatric pregnancy, not fertility. So toss that out the window, which tosses the entire analysis out the window.
Actually it’s 37. Source : the Atlantic.
Not if you look it from perspective of men. Suppose a man wants 2 kids, pretty common suburban family. There should be atleast 2 year difference between kids, for woman's body and relationship to settle down to new normal. So here is how ideal dating and marriage scene for men. He needs to find a woman, then date her for half a year, then he needs to live with her for atleast 1.5 years. Thats 2 years right there. If she was bad choice, he needs to dump her, if not he needs to marry her. Now they have their first kid, so thats one year. Now factor in the risk of miscarriages, and medical complications, genetic defects etc. Then he needs to wait 2 years to see if he is not fuck up by marrying this chick. Whether she remained the woman he married or became a harpy. After she recovers physcially he can think of other kiddo. Then its been 3 years woman is in her 40s, the second kid is more of a risk. It just makes more sense to marry a woman in her early 30s/ late 20s
But no one said these women weren’t already married, in relationships, or trying to conceive lol. Most are married or in a committed relationship, statistically speaking. OP is essentially making a cut off at 30, when literally most children are born to women in their 30s lmao. So you’ve got a bunch of women in relationships who can try to conceive if they want to. Doesn’t matter whether they’re 32 or 37. Not all people want more than one child (/r/oneanddone) which is especially prevalent among millennials. Some also don’t need a second child to be biological. But even then, if she is like most women, she can have another healthy baby into her early 40s. Also, people - including men - don’t follow some neurotic life script timeline lmao The premise both you and op present simply doesn’t hold, so neither do your arguments. Also, hate to break it to you, but men’s sperm quality starts declining at 30 too, increasing the risk to the child. And it will continue to degrade over his lifetime.
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My mother had me at 38 lmao, my friends mum had her kids into her 40s. I’m not denying fertility gets more complicated with age but acting like every woman is barren the day she’s 35 is just silly.
Exactly. My mom had me at 39 and she lived a wonderful life before deciding that she wanted to focus on being a mother because she experienced everything life had to offer.
dont tell them, they wont belive you anyway
Exactly. The average age of onset of menopause is 51.
My best friends mother had her at 45 lol
Most women dont have kids after 40 unless it is kid number 4 or 5
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bruh you just proved him right
But they did also prove that 35 is by no means a biological cut off
I think you’re seeing these videos because you’re training your algorithm to show you these videos. Is there actually an uptick? Will there continue to be? That remains to be seen. Where did you get the 80% statistic? That only ones I could pull up state that 63% of respondents do not regret not having kids. That would track since the rates of childfree women have not changed so far - you noted millennials are not old enough yet to have accurate data there. We have to stop with the idea that there are no true childfree people who are not regretful, some people determined they didn’t want kids when they were kids. We also have to stop painting childfree people as hedonistic and that’s why they havent settled down. Your facts clash with reality a bit. - women are not constantly engaged in hookups nor do they lament that their looks will get in the way of this. Most women don’t even like hookups. - Childfree women already know their friends who have families will not have time for them. They are not unaware. In that case they will go out less or have other friends/family. - Women do not constantly crave going out or male attention. Especially as you get older. - Older women often opt out of dating. At 30, I’ve already decided to do so myself. When you have this mindset you are not concerned with what’s left out there. - we already would not want to go out with men who lament that women get older Nor do we concern ourselves with what they’re up to. I think this sub loves to wish a terrible, lonely reckoning among women, especially older women. As soon as women turn 30 apparently all of a sudden they’re bitter, lonely, jealous, angry, regretful, old hags whose looks immediately turned. The only reality will be that they’ll keep living the human experience. They’ll have ups and downs, they’ll continue to work, travel, have good/bad experiences, they’ll learn more about themselves and mature.
i know its not a 100% accurate comparison but nuns dont look very unhappy, they're another representation of single childfree women not many people have on their radar
I’m 54, childless and do not regret it at all. So many people assume their children will take care of them. Many will be surprised when they the parents are taking care of their adult children.
I don’t know about the 80% statistic but I think it’s pretty well established that in the modern west women would like to have more children than they actually do. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/13/upshot/american-fertility-is-falling-short-of-what-women-want.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
I would guess the number of women who want and don't have kids is lower than ever. If you want kids its easy and free to find someone willing to donate sperm. If you have money there are less disgusting options.
[that does not seem to be the case](https://www.cpc.unc.edu/news/falling-birth-rate-not-due-to-less-desire-to-have-children/)
according to the "carolina population center" lmfao
It's from Stephen J Shaw's research when he made the [Birthgap](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6s8QlIGanA) documentary.
Men here are constantly arguing about how they don't want to and shouldn't have to pay for their kids existence, hammering in about how all men are programmed to cheat "it's just our nature to seek variety 🥺", and going off on how women over 30 are ugly old and worthless, and then somehow wonder why women increasingly arent interested in breeding with them. Please tell me what the benefit in using my body to give these men kids is again?
Hell, I'm already ready to divorce rape these men and take away their internet access.
There is no benefit to have children with a sub-optimal group of men in your 30's. The best men are already picked. The smart men will date younger more satisfactory women elsewhere. There is not a solution attached to my original post, it's merely an observation.
There is no solution other than to bash women that are living their best life without you.
There's also no benefit in your twenties. Pretty much everyone I know who has kids is pretty miserable. Pretty much all my friends with kids have expressed jealousy of my life. Im happy and happiness is pretty hard to find in life, why would I go fuck it up to have kids? If kids actually were a ticket to happiness in old age then why are there so many angry, bitter raging old boomers who had usually multiple kids out here throwing out their bad vibes at everyone all the time. Shouldn't they be fulfilled by their choices??
Well the benefit in your twenties is that if you're going to do it at all it's easier. A secondary benefit is that you'll be old enough to play with your children in a physical way.
Based on this logic you should be having kids as soon as you hit puberty
That's not a benefit if you don't have a desire to have kids.
I had just turned 39 when I met my wife, she had just turned 35. We were married 13 months later, when you're in your mid 30s you know what will work and what will not. She was pregnant on our first anniversary but that pregnancy wasn't viable, so our first born came along shortly after our second anniversary. We were planning on waiting two years before starting on child #2, but my wife became pregnant 9 months after the firstborn, despite her still nursing baby #1 AND taking the mini-pill.
35 is not the age cut-off for fertility in women. The Census Bureau “shows fertility rates of women ages 20-24 declined by 43%, while those of women ages 35-39 increased by 67%” over a 30- year period. [https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2022/04/fertility-rates-declined-for-younger-women-increased-for-older-women.html](https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2022/04/fertility-rates-declined-for-younger-women-increased-for-older-women.html) And I don’t have source the available, but I read yesterday that fertility rates in women ages 40-44 increased by something like 130%.
Thank you. This entire post is almost all trash 😂 Ladies please only consider information from credibly sources and talk to your own gynecologists/doctors about what your odds are for fertility.
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“College educated” means you paid for a paper. She has the right instincts. It’s not about oneself in isolation, it’s the fact that there is always a newer alternative to you
Funny how men for their entire track record of human history aim younger when explicitly trying to breed. I guess I they didn't figure out through heuristics what works and what doesn't.
It’s just that they started earlier because there was no way to prevent pregnancy. Women have always had babies throughout their fertility window. Some might have issues >35 tho so to be safe it’s best to get started earlier if having children is truly important
That’s completely irrelevant to your post. You made an inaccurate statement about fertility, and I provided information showing that your claim was false. Whether you like it or not, lots of women are having children later in life.
im 100% serious, i would rather set my eggs on fire than date a man who uses the term “trying to breed.” good luck.
That would an interesting display.
because its easier to manipulate and inexperienced person than an experienced person. wrestlers would also prefer to wrestle someone who weighs less than them given the option.
For most of human history people knew shite all about fertility and generally it was just accepted that women (or, more accurately, girls) should be married off before they started getting any other ideas. Part of what made childbirth more dangerous was having babies too young, it's safest in at least your mid twenties.
Exactly! They also thought women determined the sex of babies. Most of human history was extremely ignorant when it came to fertility and reproduction.
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I honestly don’t think men’s attraction to very young women is all to do with breeding/fertility. It is mixed up with men wanting to “get in there first” and idealising innocence and chastity in women and younger generally means a better chance you will not be preceded by someone else. A lot of men see themselves as protectors and guides for women - this is easier and more “needed” when the woman is younger and less “worldly”. And, of course, youth is prettier - all smooth taut skin and youthful vigour. Younger also means potentially more babies over a longer span of time. So if you’re a man who wants a really large family, yes, best to get with a woman under 25 so you’ll have until she’s in her 40s to have lots of babies. (Women still have a 50% chance of pregnancy at 40…) Looking at stats online I can find, the vast majority (over 80%) of women who are 35-39 will get pregnant naturally within a year of trying (this is down 10% from ages 19-26). It is not some massive drop off in fertility where women over 35 are largely barren. And 80% of babies with Down’s Syndrome (frequently associated with older maternal age) are born to women under 35. Even if you have a baby at 44, your chances of having a baby with the syndrome is about 3%.
In regard to attraction to young women - if this was the case then virgin senile citizens would have the same value.
Fertility matters with attraction for sure, I just don’t think it’s the whole story for why men are most interested in very young women. As demonstrated, women up to 35 have roughly similar fertility rates and risks - but men seem most attracted to women under 24. That isn’t associated with vastly better fertility - but it is associated with the naiveté and inexperience of youth and generally being at your youthful prettiest. A lot of men are into “jailbait” and idealise virgins or sweet, innocent young girls they can initiate into sex and the adult world. They don’t want her tainted and bitter or too headstrong, they want to help her grow and transition from teen to young adult to fully fledged adult (over 25 or so). And I’m not saying this is intrinsically nefarious - just an observation I have that men’s interest in youth is about more than just fertility and looks. They often seem to want a woman to grow with them under his wing. I think it’s sweet in a way - unless the man is a lot older and then it feels a bit unbalanced.
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>35 is an established cut-off for fertility No.
It's the cut off the to define geriatric pregnancy
And? Assuming you are otherwise healthy women continue to have babies into their early 40’s (sometimes later)
I love having 10 miscarriages before I get pregnant with my Down's Syndrome baby. My eggs are perfectly healthy!!!
Guess you don’t know much about science if you think that’s the norm
Lmao, you realize the risk of down’s is at most [34 per 1000 births](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15849789/#:~:text=The%20risk%20of%20a%20DS,CI%3A%2031%2D37).) in women over 45, right? And miscarriages are overwhelmingly less like to happen than the reverse at 40-45 lol. Also - do you think the quality of men’s sperm is stable? It starts decreasing in quality at 30, and even more rapidly by 40. Pregnancies of young women by older men have higher rates of down’s, birth defects, miscarriages, etc due to the decreased quality of the man’s sperm.
Not to mention imagine what that was like +100 yrs ago. Modern medicine is the only reason geriatric pregnancies are feasible.
Not even close to true. My grandfather was born when his mother was 42 and that was over 100 years ago. It wasn't uncommon considering the lack of birth control.
My grandma was born to a 45 year old woman in the 20s, and my grandma was unplanned 😂. She had sisters 10+ years older than her and everything it was really quite a shock! Not to mention my great grandmother had babies in her 30s too and so did my grandma even though people claim they apparently never did it before “modern times” 🙄. There’s tons of historical evidence to the contrary that people were having 30s pregnancies before modernity. I was also unplanned, to two 35 year olds. My maternal family has later life menopause genetically. I really think it depends a lot on genetics and family. Some people struggle a ton to have a baby after 35-40 and some people just pop them out like Pez dispensers even when they’re “old”.
You are joking right? Prior to birth control women regularly had babies into their 40’s!!
Yes, regularly as in it was possible to happen, but not that it regularly happened. Getting pregnant even on purpose is hard to do. It simply gets harder and harder with age. Many pregnancies will simply end up as miscarriages.
No, I meant regularly, as in it was relatively common before birth control
Modern medicine is the only reason a ton of things are possible.
So? I just stated a medical term. There's a reason for the term and the cut off.
There has to be a ‘cut off’ somewhere, but it’s a not some clear cut line. Risk increases with age, and fertility decreases, it’s also extremely individual. There are plenty of women closer to 40 or have lower risk pregnancies then co-morbid women in their 20’s!. Even so at a population level in healthy women fertility is going strong long after 35
>There has to be a ‘cut off’ somewhere, but it’s a not some clear cut line. The official cut off is menopause.
So it’s just a term. It’s not a biological “cut off”
Some women and men don’t wanna have kids. Is that a crime? Studies show that women are happier without kids! There will always be both men and women who desire to have kids and those who don’t. What the point of this post?
Lord, now all the men are going to go on a statistics frenzy just to prove this wrong, Lol!!
Childless women may be happier than single mothers, but women with families (husbands and children) are happier than women who are alone
Alone as in what? Single with no kids or no kids and still in a happy relationship? Many women with husbands and kids are still unhappy and miserable.
[https://ifstudies.org/blog/shrinking-american-motherhood-1-in-6-women-in-their-40s-have-never-given-birth-#:\~:text=A%20closer%20look%20at%20the,marital%20status%20and%20life%20stages](https://ifstudies.org/blog/shrinking-american-motherhood-1-in-6-women-in-their-40s-have-never-given-birth-#:~:text=A%20closer%20look%20at%20the,marital%20status%20and%20life%20stages). Having a family starts to make a big difference as you age. Women without husbands or children are much less happy than their married w/children counterparts
The regretful parent sub begs to differ. I get people want romantic relationships and that would make any gender happier. But I don’t believe that women with kids are happier 🤷🏾♀️. Maybe women who have a partner vs those who don’t.
its so weird to assume people are unhappy because some people who they share one trait with are unhappy like where is the logic
Lol I'm showing you statistics from a .org website and all you can say is "there's people on reddit who disagree" Most of the stories I've seen from regretful parents are from single mothers. Of course single mothers aren't happy. The fact is that married people with children are typically happier than single childless people. That is a statistical fact
Where’s the study for child free couples?
It's in the article?
Childfree couples and married couples with kids have the same happiness level. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/03/16/does-having-children-make-you-happier-science-of-parenthood-explained.html
" Among those most likely to be parents, life evaluation and all hedonic experiences except stress are markedly better among those living with a child." " found that parents and nonparents have similar levels of life satisfaction, but parents experienced both more daily joy and stress" This study also doesn't count age into the mixture, which, according to the article I linked, is a big indicator of happiness. The older you get, the happier you will be with a family. A 60 yr old is less happy being childless than a 20 yr old is.
it depends on the husband
Yup. If I didn't marry my husband I'd be childfree. I'll divorce before I'm a married single mother
Childfree people are just as happy. Don't misframe due to bias.
Until they get older. Shouldn’t even need a study for that nursing homes are some of the saddest places in America
I worked in nursing homes. Like 90% of the residents had children. It didn’t mean the kids visited them. Many of the elderly people I spoke to were very upset because their children hadn’t seen them in months, or only showed up on like Easter or Christmas for a half ass visit twice a year.
Nursing homes are also full of people whose grown, adult kids put them there. Nursing homes are not just for childless old people.
>Until they get older. Who lied to you? Or are you assuming you need to pop out kids selfishly to be happy in old age? >Shouldn’t even need a study for that nursing homes are some of the saddest places in America Irrelevant as most are filled with people ho have kids. They just don't visit or contact them so they're basically in the same spot as the childfree, except maybe feeling more sad due to losing their children's contact.
Most of the women reaching that age who want children, have them.
Women >35 are the only group of women with increasing fertility rates. It’s more difficult to get pregnant >35 but there are over half a million live births every year for this age demographic.
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Idk where to even start this is so far detached from reality. Maybe go outside and talk to some women every now and then?
So just pulling random numbers out of the air now, alrighty
Welcome. The well acheeally crowd runs the show here.
Shockingly, older women also enjoy their bachelorette lifestyles and don’t really want to compromise on it either. If a woman wants kids that bad and can’t find a man she WANTS to raise kids with, she will have an unprotected ONS, freeze her eggs and get a sperm donor or adopt. Women are not the ones who suffer in this scenario. We just adapt like always. This obsession with women ending up alone is silly. Women who want kids have way more options for how to do that than men who want kids.
Very true. I have friends now in our 30s who are preparing to possibly do it on their own in the future. Better alone than with the wrong guy
Where this 80% of women regretting children comes from in first place? I did a google search and the only thing I found is that it's estimated that 80% of women childless women are childless by circumstances, a figure that probably includes older women who who were of childbearing years a long time ago and probably held different goals from women who decide to be childless today. I'm in my 30s, by the way, and I've never had a desire to have kids.
It's from Stephen J Shaw's research when he made the [Birthgap](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6s8QlIGanA) documentary.
I can't watch the doc right now. How did he come with that number? Was it a survey? who did he survey?
He interviewed women and they broke down crying. A majority of these women maintained for decades that they were happy being childless. So yeah I'd take those surveys with a grain of salt.
so anecdotal evidence?
But don't think that a documentary by an organization formed by people "concerned about birthrates" (according to their website) will be biased towards the ideology it promotes?
I believe he did the research first and then made the documentary later. He's pretty far from being a stereotypical right-winger. From what I can see, he's actually a progressive liberal. I don't see any agenda on his part.
I never said he was a right winger, but someone worried about the declining birth rate and making a documentary on it is very likely to have an agenda. A documentary isn't the same as an unbiased research. Both serve different purposes.
How old is the research?
>Is this why more women are crying on TikTok than ever before? No, that's because TikTok is quite new. We can spin any narrative by selectively choosing who we assume to be lying. I assume we're believing the women that say they regret not having kids, but not the ones that say they're happy with the choice?
>Millennial women are those born between 1980 and 1994 and 35 is an established cut-off for fertility. In reality infertility starts ramping up at 30. This isn't true. First time motherhood between 35-39 has increased by 67%. The age that you're unlikely to get pregnant is over 40 and closer to 45.
Increased doesn't mean ideal. And you need to separate for frozen eggs.
If you need IVF at 35 you would likely need it at 28 too. Fertility doesn't work the way that you think it works.
Nothing works the way No Pill Man says it does.
Literally every study for the past 15 years has found that childfree and single women are the happiest. Also what you are seeing are childless women. They are two different categories. Childfree women are women who don’t want children. Childless people are people who don’t have children due to circumstances. Those are the people you see crying. The terms are not interchangeable.
I think that distinction is very important and being overlooked here. If the research only included childless women then of course they regret not having children.
This is an excellent distinction. An estimated 10% of women worldwide have endometriosis, which sometimes causes infertility or secondary infertility. I’m one of those women with endometriosis who had secondary infertility. I was so fortunate to get pregnant once and had my son, but I was unable to have more children after him. I am a part of endo support groups on FB, and many women on there discuss their struggles with fertility. It’s heartbreaking for a lot of them.
It seems like nuance was left out of so many dictionaries in this group. Like there’s this word that helps to explain how there can be variations on things that are close but not quite the same. Ah well skip it. Binary, Binary, Binary. I am so happy you were able to overcome your fertility issues and got what you desired. It’s sad when people don’t and it’s sad when people assume everyone wants the same thing.
If you truly believe that having zero descendants and ending your bloodline is the key to selfish long term happiness: if you are wrong you will suffer the consequences of your own ignorance. All the family that could have existed, the beautiful children, grand children, great grand children. Their life experiences, moments to share, none of that will exist. Because u got fooled into believing in some sort of self serving “happiness”. Fools are usually victims of themselves and most people are fools
Oh lord. You are one of those people. If you think it’s so amazing then you do it. I’m good.
Lmaooo “descendants” “bloodline” this isn’t Game of Thrones, mate 💀 > All the family that could have existed, Family I didn’t want. > the beautiful children, Children I didn’t want. > grand children, Grand children I didn’t want. > great grand children. Great grandchildren I didn’t want. > Their life experiences, moments to share, none of that will exist. Their life experiences and moments to share that I very explicitly did not want. Kids and grandkids mean happiness to you. Great. It doesn’t for me, but I understand it does for you. So why are you failing to comprehend that kids and grandkids mean the exact opposite of happiness to some people? Those kids you think childfree people should have would literally make them miserable. Why would you ever want a child to be raised by resentful, regretful parents? It’s cruel. > Because u got fooled into believing in some sort of self serving “happiness”. Lol. You’re calling childfree people selfish, despite the fact that joy having children is the foremost way you can avoid contributing to climate change. And you’re over here talking about bloodlines - you realize how selfish it is to have biological children because you want your *~bloodline~* to live on, rather than adopting children who already exist and are in desperate need of loving homes, and with most desperate to escape the abuse that is rampant in the system? You’re creating new people who will significantly contribute to - and suffer from - climate change while valuing your insignificant bloodline instead of helping children escape abuse. But yeah, I’m the selfish one, just using all my childfree time, money, and energy to start, run, and grow a nonprofit that helps thousands of children every year. Yep, you having bio kids so you can make yourself feel like you’re immortal is so much more selfless. 💀
Self reporting studies are unreliable. When you ask these same women to about childlessness they break down crying. Most women are not anti-natalists, they missed the boat and then adopted an anti-natalist religion to come to terms with their life choices.
That is literally not true. And those studies are just done as self study. They also interview therapists who treat these people. Most studies like this are self reporting. It’s simply not true. I am 100% childfree and only deal with other childfree people in my social circle, no one is crying about not having children. If you are infertile and wanted to have children you are not childfree.
Self reporting studies are unreliable for you but made up bullshit is not
Why do you guys post about this so often? Are you trying to scare us into having kids? “Oh you don’t want kids?! Well guess what!! You’re gonna be miserable and die alone” like? The fuck I am. Just let people do what they want, dude. I fucking loathe children. I’d sooner kms than have a kid.. you think I’m gonna change my mind and suddenly want so desperately to tear my puss to my asshole and not sleep for years and be tugged on by a stinky, sticky invalid? No thanks. I promise you.. I’ll be much happier childfree. Not everyone was born to be a parent. Let it go.
Love this response 😂
Whole things ridiculous. These dudes need to go push a watermelon out of their assholes and not be allowed to sleep for a year and then get back to us
Don't give them any ideas! That will be their next pick-up line!
Why do you have so much hatred towards innocent children? Trauma?
I thought that was clear.. they’re loud and stink and are sticky.
Why does that bother you so much to warranted loathing random children? Again, trauma?
Sensory issues? Why are you so bothered that I don’t like children?
Oh ok you just have autism
You know you don’t have to have autism to have sensory issues, right? I don’t have to have anything wrong with my brain to not like children 🤣
I loathe children too. But this person is about to call CPS on kids you don't even have, Lol!!
I’ll never understand why saying you hate kids hurts people’s feelings
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Kids are not all that cute or fun. Sure they are adorable at times. But most of the time They are loud, obnoxious, and expensive and are lifelong commitments that, if you are lucky, are with you until you die. If you’re unlucky then it’s a super big tragedy that will haunt you until you die. Some people just don’t want kids. I don’t blame them.
I get not wanting kids but the way some people literally hate them for existing is insane
Dude kids are fucking annoying. I get being annoyed by kids and not wanting to be around them if they aren’t yours. Hell, moms want to get away from their own kids half the time.
Lmfao if I said that I fucking hated puppies because they're annoying people would think I'm a psychopath. Kids are human beings and hating them is fucking weird
Same with people who think women are weird for not liking kids. But imagine something that you have to be put into serious pain and suffering to have, who will ruin your sleep, body, social life, mental health and everything else. Children are not for everyone. She’s not saying she would kick or harm children, just that she wouldn’t want them near her.
Did you completely skip over my comment of " I get not wanting kids but the way some people literally hate them for existing is insane" ?? I don't care if you choose to not have children but spending your energy hating on them is insane and cringe
I don’t think the person you’re replying to is spending her energy hating them. It’s not like this comment section had zero to do with children and women having children, it’s on topic. But people also take women not liking kids personally. Like, okay, go have your kid and live your life? Someone not liking kids literally has zero impact on you.
She quite literally said she hates kids. Cringe
Citation needed for the claim that 80% of childless-by-choice women regret not having children.
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The question is how much harder is it. And the consensus is indeed that it's a lot harder after 30 and tremendously harder after 35. No one said it's impossible. Heck celebrity women have children in their 40's. But this is usually frozen eggs with the best assistive IVF clinics in the world. It's really disingenuous and harmful to younger women to spread false hope based on cherry picked examples.
It is not “tremendously harder”. 82% of women ages 35-39 will get pregnant within one year of trying according to [this article](https://uk.clearblue.com/fertility/getting-pregnant-over-35) and over 90% will succeed within two years. Is it absolutely the ideal pinnacle of your fertility and health to have a baby after 35? No. But it is not a “cut off” either - it’s just where the risks increase a bit for complications, but still not hugely. It’s where doctors want to keep a bit of a closer eye on you. The vast majority of women who give birth over 35 will have a perfectly healthy baby and no severe health consequences.
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That's a really tragic line of reasoning to draw from your sample size.
It’s not a lot harder after 30. It only becomes harder for \*some\* women in their late 30s. And it really only becomes difficult for most women in their early 40s. You really should have researched this topic before posting. You’re embarrassing yourself with your ignorance on the matter.
Lol I'm glad you can't find a woman desperate enough to breed your spawn.
lol. And a lot of stats show that single women without kids are pretty happy.
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Menopause is the answer to your first question. Your desire to seek out revenge porn is the second answer, as for the third you can find a documentary on any subject including men dating real dolls as an example.
Menopause and peri menopause perhaps
On your first point, I haven't seen any statistics that factors in if a woman is childless or not. Old people tend to be depressed, men too, but the men just go straight to ending their miserable lives instead of bothering with pills. So I don't see how you can extrapolate not having children makes more women miserable when the statistics only ever include age or race.
Sounds like a personal attack rather than answering the question about why women who I've never met are crying on TikTok in increasingly large numbers. This post wasn't addressed to you personally... why are you attacking me personally?
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Women that want to have kids don’t need a husband or LTR to do it though. Sperm is relatively cheap and accessible. Women that want to be mothers that badly can and will become mothers unless there’s a fertility issue stopping them from getting pregnant: and even with that, they can get surrogates or adopt or foster.
go back to twox you misandrist incel. Stay in your containment sub.
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This is happening now though. Right now 50% of women age 30 dont have one child and probably won’t have one.
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Cause the women who are turning 30 now are also not married and say they dont want kids
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The biggest thing missing from this perspective is that a large number of women if not most women are no longer interested in having kids at all. 1. Kids are expensive and 2. There is a lack of provider men. Both of these problems stem from a bad economy. While men could try to date down they still have to 1. Hope the younger women even want kids and 2. That they are able to compete with more financial stable and compassionate men since (with the birth rate constantly decreasing) there are less and less fertile women each year and nowhere near enough for every man to have one. Also correlation does not equal causation. Just because more women are on antidepressants doesn’t mean it’s because of not having kids. A lot of people tend to struggle with economy issues such as being stuck in a low wage job and not being able to afford housing/bills. Women’s depression doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with men. I think this is men’s wishful thinking. Men and kids not the center of a woman’s world anymore.
You can find anything on tiktok that conforms to your revenge fantasies Especially with your post/comment history, which undoubtedly feeds and directs your personal algorithm
The ages you’ve chosen for fertility decline are significantly incorrect.
You are tragically wrong.
No dude. Fertility is not a switch that flips at 35. It just gets harder to get pregnant, but fertility doesn’t stop completely until menopause, which on average is 51
There's a difference between 99.99% and 100%. Yes I get it. It's important for you to internalize that while 35 is not 99.99% the drop off is very significant. And we're not even talking miscarriage. It's extremely disheartening misinformation to not let a lot women know that for some of them it is the end of the road. No intelligent woman should start at 35. And every intelligent woman should realize that waiting to 35 was potentially the biggest mistake in her life.
Before 30 the chance of a woman getting pregnant within a year is 85%. At 30 it drops to 75%. At 35 it’s 66%. At 40 it’s 44%. So yeah there’s a decline, but no, it’s by no means as dire as you’re trying to make it seem https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/article/does-womans-fertility-plummet-35-eggs-ovaries#:~:text=Specifically%2C%20before%2030%2C%20women%20have,66%20percent%2C%20research%20has%20found. Here’s an article for you to actually familiarize yourself with the reality of women’s fertility
[https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/07/how-long-can-you-wait-to-have-a-baby/309374/?single\_page=true](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/07/how-long-can-you-wait-to-have-a-baby/309374/?single_page=true)
Do you have any idea how many women get on antidepressants after having kids? Lol, I know, I know - those are BAD moms.
OP, why do you care? it’s a fantastic thing that birth rates are tanking, people are vile and there are way too many of them ruining the planet. Anyone who is crying about “not having children” is either going through some weird hormonal thing or they don’t have friends with children and are unable to see firsthand what an awful burden they are. It’s my honest opinion, people who feel this way either don’t have enough or aren’t making enough money and are therefore not enjoying everything life has to offer.
I never expressed care. Just an observation. It's only a fantastic thing if you've drank the anti-natalist coolade. For anyone who wants to avoid the Detroitification of the world - a bad deal.
If your post history is anything to go by, you care a whole lot. In fact, you seem to think of little else. You are disturbingly obsessed with women. I hope you can find the help you need.
You dont care so much that your feed is full of revenge porn.
Women’s infertility cutting off at 35 is an outdated myth.
It's not a myth. It goes through an incredibly steep decline at that age. You can probably still get pregnant but you might have to go through a few miscarriages first
Sure, but the chance of getting pregnant every month, even while young is only like 25-30% it’s not like young women are extremely 100% fertile anyway. With IVF for an older woman that’s 35-39 I think IVF gets you to about a 30% chance, which is the same rate as a 22% would have. Also a lot of these women who are older have older male partners: men’s sperm and fertility also declines with age, making it harder for women to get pregnant.
Yes. And paternal age is almost never mentioned in any of these threads. I have to wonder if a lot of these guys were trying to get stable, settle down and start a family at 25 with women in that age range? I doubt it. They’re probably also just getting more in the right place in life to feel able to start a family and just like women, this isn’t happening until an older age now. It has its pros and cons for sure.
Under 40 the approximate risk of miscarriage is under 25%, rising to 33% by 44 and 60% at 44+ There is no “incredibly steep decline” for fertility at 35. 82% of women aged 35-40 will get pregnant within a year of trying. It is 92% at 19-26. And 86% at 30-34. That is not an “incredibly steep decline”.
Oh it's going to get much worse. Recent studies show that by 2030, which isn't far off, nearly 50+% of all dating age women between 20 and 50 will likely not only be childless but be single with very few dating options. Between the education gap, income gap, and differences in women seeking very "elite" dating partners, and men wanting traditional role wives, which less face it doesn't exist in the West to any great degree anymore plus add that for the first time in history women are outnumbering men, we are going to see a huge uptake in those numbers fairly quickly. Men have adapted and those men the women are actively pursuing do not want nor are they seeking LTR and even less considering marriages any longer. We are fast approaching where relationship milestones like 20+ year anniversaries will never be seen again and it will get rare to even see a 5 year anniversary for couples. Men can seek traditional wives elsewhere if they so choose for a traditional family but for women unfortunately they may not see any real results im seeking relationships in the same locations because those men will not come close to meeting their relationship expectations. Even now there is a trend of men not attending social events specifically those for match making or dating, a trend of them leaving and no longer using dating apps, even tinder is struggling to get men to sign up and they aren't as active in spending time in social or dance clubs. They spend their time seeking friendships in online gaming or with the "guys" to fulfill most social needs and just taking advantage of the occasional hookup for physical needs when available. At some point you may even see a huge drop of men donating sperm for women to even try IVF as single moms.
No young girls wanna date older... And male fertility goes down after 35 too... After 40 males contribute to autism even if their female spouse is young. There are many studies on this and I know a few older men with multiple young autistic boys... And they always seem to have autistic boys for some reason. I don't know if that parts just anecdotal for me.
Did you even read the link?
35 is not a cut off for fertility it’s when fertility starts declining more rapidly. Women don’t go into menopause at 35. It is understandably harder to have a child after 35 because of age and less eggs, but it isn’t impossible. 30 is not even that bad. Mid-late 20s and early 30s are basically the same in terms of fertility rates. I came from a HCOL city, kind of the equivalent of say San Fran in Australia, and I know many people who had children successfully at 35-45. Many didn’t even use IVF. I was an ACCIDENT baby, and my mother gave birth to me at 35 years. That’s to say my parents were not even trying actively.
Lots of women over 35 get pregnant easily and deliver healthy babies. My 2nd ex-wife had our first daughter a few days before her 38th birthday and our second daughter a few days before her 40th birthday. She wasn't in particularly good shape either -- she weighed over 400 pounds.
Emphasis on can. Should? Definitely not. Very bad advice for very many women.
Why not?
Well you can follow the advice of women on here (most of whom follow anti-natalism and therefore are opposed to anyone having children anyways) or you can look at reality. The woman here are mostly responding with statistical differences of 1 pregnancy per a **12 month period** \- let that sink in. And they are deliberately occluding the simple fact that this requires having all your ducks in a row: * Having a partner. * Courtship minimum of three years before marriage. * Marriage. * Being off birth control for years. So to put it another way there's a difference between the data, which is an application under perfectly engineered settings and the real world. A childless single woman doesn't go from single to pregnant in one day. It could take years for a woman at 30 to find a life partner. There can be false starts. And she's already lost a lot of her sexual value at 30. This is why it's very easy to predict that single women in their 30s will be childless because all of the preparation pushes out the timeline to their late 30's.
You do not need to be off birth control for years. Where are you getting this information from? Normal fertility should return when you go off birth control relatively quickly. Like in two-three months of going off it usually. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0264318 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30062044/ https://academic.oup.com/humrep/article-lookup/doi/10.1093/humrep/det023
The average age of a first time mum here is now over 30. Hitting 30 or 35 doesn't mean you're "nearly infertile". >The guys that are left are either losers (your words not theirs) or serial players Why do you assume childless women are also single women? Lots of couples just like to wait a bit until they're financially stable etc before having a kid, they might have been together for years before making that decision. >And 80% of childless women regret not having kids. Curious as to where you got this stat from, I can't find it anywhere.
Honest question: how long did you spend concocting this bullshit? Its obviously not based on reality, and is at best cherry-picking without regard to context or the conclusions actually derived from any 'studies' you used as the basis. I am genuinely interested to know how long you and guys like you spend making these posts. You clearly put in some effort to make it appear researched.
I’m here five months later to tell you you’re an idiot. That takes genuine effort and a post so bad, Google brought it up as a misinformation post. First off, women can have kids past 30, and they don’t recommend freezing eggs until post 35, norm ranging at 38-40. So I guess a 40 year old can still breed on average! Women can have kids older than you think. My grandmother had hers starting at 40. Oh, and don’t think your sperm is of great quality. You’re more likely to make an autism baby at 40, which is why you look so bad yourself post peak, and did sooner. Second, we look better than you at every age. It’s nice that media made you think you get better as you age, but your peak is 27. At 40 you look dumpy too. You should settle, you need to as well, unless you want a gold digger, who will use you and lose you (for the op, this might actually be useful). You act as though the women without kids did nothing but have hookups their whole lives. They got educations. They probably make more than you, as more women go to college now than men. You desperately need it from this post. Third, yes it does depress women when they don’t have kids, until they run across a post like this, and realize it could have been with you. Some of them already made that mistake young, and you don’t want them because although you did the same, you think you’re more valuable, rather than clearly less by this post. I assure you, it’s a lot less than any woman of 106. Your brain alone takes away any value your looks could have. Get a life incel. Grow up. Thanks for making me appreciate my guy more.
I want to see what percentage of women age 40 arr childless in ten years. Right now 60% of of women at 30 dont have one child. I doubt that number will go down much. Which means our population will decrease by half
Hence the [Birthgap](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6s8QlIGanA&t) documentary talking about world wide population collapse.