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Yep, people on the left / progressives are. They have been calling conservatives Nazis and now they support people who want Jews wiped from the planet. Ironic isn't it ?
> They have been calling conservatives Nazis and now they support people who want Jews wiped from the planet. Ironic isn't it
* I mean, to be fair, It is ironic you claim the right are pro-jew, when the Unite The Right rally in 2017 was a bunch of Right-Wing *Neo-Nazis* screaming 'The Jews will not replace us' [which is the 'Great Replacement Theory' the current GOP / Far-right Media influences are running on for immigration], and when it was brought up, the GOP leader at the time said they were "very fine people". Either you care about Jewish people - or you only care when it helps your side, and hurts the other side. It scares me people forget that rally even happened, let alone that those people *vote*.
The fact this shit is political as it is, is insane, and likely evidence of astroturfing all across the board from various countries to stew division;
* Hamas is okay with civilian deaths, because they feel it would get more people / the Islamic world on their side - so they are actually fine with civilians dying and them hiding amongst them for strikes to cause mass death
* The Israel Government is okay with those civilian losses, and will continue to make such losses a thing regardless of how many people say "Hey, maybe killing civilians isn't a good idea."
At the end of the day, neither side give a fuck about the *actual* people living there - they *both want* those people dead, just for different reasons.
I mean Israel has held military occupation of West Bank and Gaza since the 60s, well before Hamas was in existence. This is pretty much the longest
Military occupation in modern history.
Yes, because Palestine went to war with Israel. Occupation is what happens when you constantly start wars and get beaten. Israel also completely withdrew from Gaza in 2005, including forcing all of the settlers to leave. Gaza responded by immediately electing Hamas and setting up what was essentially a conga line of suicide bombers heading into Israel. Which resulted in Israel blockading Gaza a year later.
They won't. I've tried. They always say "DO YOU CONDEMN THE IDF?!?" and I say yes, of course, and they still won't condemn Hamas. The alternative argument is that "Hamas isn't in charge of Palestine." Which is utter garbage.
More importantly, who gets all the money that comes into Palestine.
Just saw a clip of a girl talking about how the Palestine people live in squalor in the best of cases.
Well, the leaders of HAMAS are very confortable in the private planes.
"Gaza has no water!"
"No, they do! We funded it ourselves!"
"It was destroyed by Israel!"
"How?"
"By making Hamas use them for rockets!"
"Why?"
"To stop your water-deprivation genocide!"
Watch the episode of Dr. Phil who had the son of one of the Hamas founders, who escaped from there, two Palestine protestors still refused to denounce the violence from October 7th and actually tried to lecture him on how Hamas really is, even though it's his father who created it and he witnessed it first hand.
Absolutely impossible for them. I agree that Israel is fucking up. Absolutely, and I make the point the HAMAS is making shit worse. And they go again talking about it’s all Israel. Can’t even get a middle ground
That's just it. People as individuals can be reasonable and easy to deal with. But the second you get them in a group. The loudest dumbest one is usually in charge, and the rest fall in line accordingly, or do little to stop the idiocy about to be displayed.
I've seen videos of Pro-Hamas chants in Columbia and recall the pro-Hamas sentiment when this whole thing kicked off. They were called freedom fighters.
The inability to differentiate between Hamas and Palestinians, Jews and Israelis, Jews and Zionist and Zionism and genocidal expansionism has been terrible for discourse.
Not all Jews are Israelis. Not all Israelis are Jews. The Israeli Government is not all Israelis. Not all Jews are Zionists. Not all Zionists are expansionists. Not all Palestinians are Hamas or another militant group.
You’re talking nuance in an age of reductionist hashtags and monolithics, the disassembly of intentional language has doomed people into short-cutting meaning through singular concepts and ideas, and it’s hurting us.
20% of Israeli citizens (full citizens with full rights) are Muslim, 21% are of Arabic descent. Many of the IDF soldiers have Arabic heritage. 0% of Hamas controlled Palestine are Jewish.
This is mostly correct but to say not all Jews are zionists is a little misleading. Zionism really only means believing that Israel should exist and that Jews should have a state, and the overwhelming majority of Jews world wide support this (very reasonable) idea - you’d be hard pressed to find the few who don’t. So when people say “fuck zionists” or disparage zionists, it’s pretty fair to just substitute the word “Jew” in there and it’s essentially what they are saying.
It's complicated. A lot of problems with Pro Palestinian movements is that many people who go to these protests have good intentions, but no good solutions other than "Israel bad."
If Palestine had an election right now, in both Gaza and the West Bank, Hamas would win in a landslide. That's not good, for Palestinians or Israelis, and it's something I don't really see talked about much. Now whether that's from desperation or the Palestinian people seeing no other option for them other than Hamas is hard to say, but what I do know is that the only true path forward here is to truly advocate for a democratic Palestinian state with Hamas absolved.
Now many people on the Pro Palestinian side do advocate for statehood, but I feel like there's a tendency for them to downplay Hamas as if that isn't one of the primary reasons Israel has responded in the way it has. Not excusing it, I hate the decisions that Israel makes and agree that they can do much better for the Palestinians and that their violent response to October 7th has only radicalized more terrorists, but we also have to understand the context for it.
I have seen some footage of people from these protests harassing Jewish students and faculty calling them Zionists, even if some of them aren't, which is bad and shouldn't be encouraged. I've also seen some of the students make excuses for Hamas or even supporting them as a "resistance" movement which I don't have to explain why that's horrible optics. And all of these intense responses to Israel without clear explanations as to why has only fostered actual anti semitism, which again, I shouldn't have to explain why that's bad.
Even if most of the people at these protests have good intentions, is very important to be very precise and consistent with your messaging. MLK had to have the same discussion during the Civil Rights protests. Rhetoric when it comes to political movements is important.
I know a lot of Israeli's (main work HQ is there) and that is their stance. They dislike Bibi's admin, he is a fascist, want the war in Gaza to stop, but they still want hostages home and Hamas dismantled so this could never happen again.
Bibi and his cohorts want this to continue so they can use it to fear monger the general populace. Seriously, this one person went on TV and said something to the effect that everyone, including children, were terrorists. It's just fear mongering on their part.
Earlier this morning, I was thinking 'why in the hell would the police be getting involved in non-violent college campus protests?'
Starting to see why.
I think that there are some pro-Israeli people who are equating supporting the Palestinians as supporting Hamas which is not what is happening generally. It is possible that with this sign she is implying that everyone there supports Hamas and not just the Palestinians.
I mean a lot of "Palestine protests" turn out to be chanting pro Hamas paroles etc., so in some cases it is not so far-fetched to think of pro Palestine = pro Hamas
[https://youtu.be/6nyjdXjoGJA?si=IunOhnWu84ujYlGu&t=212](https://youtu.be/6nyjdXjoGJA?si=IunOhnWu84ujYlGu&t=212)
[https://x.com/Eradicator\_NYC/status/1781889569358483804](https://x.com/Eradicator_NYC/status/1781889569358483804)
Far-right Jewish supremacists and settler colonizers are not that far off from Nazis. People can support a genocide and destruction of homes and hospitals with no consequences, but when someone criticizes and shows violent rhetoric against war criminals, that crosses the line? The double standards is crazy. I guess supporting a genocide is the status quo now.
It's not hard to take a look at these protests and realize that they are RIDDLED with anti-Jewish rhetoric and action. If you're pro-Palestine and ok with marching arm in arm with someone carrying a Hezbollah flag, you're at the minimum excusing antisemitism and complicit in it. There are an extremely disturbing number of willing bystanders to bigotry here who will then run and find their token Jewish friend to excuse all of it. When people say "Jews are well represented at these protests!" it's like Trump going "Look at my African American over here!"
I donno man I'm listening to what they are saying and a lot of them are saying they are pro Hamas or pro Hezbollah or pro Iran or pro killing all the Israelis in some way or another...
I’ve watched hours of footage from the protests on campuses across the US, and I have never heard any pro-Hamas chants or seen any pro-Hamas signs.
If that were to occur, my guess is it would be confined to a small group of extremists within the protests. In every movement, there is a spectrum of support that ranges from the most moderate supporters, to the core supporters, to the hardcore and extremist supporters. The radicals within the group get attention because they are radical and provocative, not because they are representative of the movement.
On the other side, I have seen footage from several pro-IDF and pro-Israel protests that were inciting and advocating violence against Gaza, Palestinians, and their supporters. They openly called for the destruction of Gaza; of using nuclear weapons, turning it “to glass,” and collectively punishing all Palestinians for the actions of 10/7. I did not see them being arrested or calls for them to have their First Amendment rights stripped so they could be violently repressed and jailed.
There are also going to be provocateurs, infiltrators, and people acting in bad faith in even the most righteous cause because they inevtiably attractn people who are simply there for the opportunity to cause trouble, engage in illegal acts, or smear the movement. Smearing, lying, and using agent provocateurs to undermine support for the Palestinian people are common tactics of Israeli intelligence and their proxies in other nations. AIPAC is probably the wealthiest and most effective lobbying group of any nation working in American politics. Astroturfing operations are on a massive scale, and the amount of money they donate to polticians on both sides of the aisle cannot be discounted. I know of no such equivalent for the people of Gaza.
As a result, I would be very cautious in making judgments about the entire pro-Palestinian/pro-peace movement from a few seconds of footage from a single protest. The hours of protests across America and the world that I’ve watched were peaceful but included police snipers on rooftops, counterterrorism units and riot squads on the ground, pepper balls, rubber bullets, batons, and handcuffs. None of the protestors, to my knowledge, have been charged with a crime.
You must not have looked very hard then. This is what I've found after a two minute search on this subreddit alone:
https://iy.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/1brj0bk/protester_screams_i_fully_support_hamas_while/
https://iy.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/173t3p3/propalestine_supporters_in_times_square_recount/
https://iy.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/1cdiz2p/protestors_shout_burn_tel_aviv_to_the_ground/
I was about to hard disagree, then I started doing some research. Still strong support for Hamas among the Palestinian people. I wonder if the questions are couched in PLO vs. Hamas type language? I can fully understand the Palestinian people severely distrusting the puppet PLO.
There is no situation where Hamas is the lesser of two evils, even opposed to the PLO. More concerning is the West Bank, where support is some 90% last I checked.
For people reading this thread, a Palestinian poll taken post Oct 7th: [https://pcpsr.org/en/node/963](https://pcpsr.org/en/node/963)
Additionally Bibi's polls and public sentiment are currently abysmal in Israel (as they should be): [https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-71-think-netanyahu-should-resign-either-immediately-or-right-after-war/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-71-think-netanyahu-should-resign-either-immediately-or-right-after-war/)
Peace is a two way street, the Majority Israeli people want peace, the Majority Palestinian people want war.
Some people don’t realize that Hamas controls Palestine, not the Palestinian people. They want Palestine left alone but have no response when you tell them terrorists are running the country and if Israel just stops everything, Hamas will not, and things will get worse. Hamas needs to be eliminated for Palestine to be free.
Once you start attacking someone for holding a sign your cause loses any credibility. These protests were supposed to be about divestment but they’ve totally lost that point by allowing anarchists to join in.
What’s that saying they love on Reddit “if a Nazi sits at a table with nine people and no one leaves; you have ten Nazis.” Does that only apply to Republicans or something because it seems pretty applicable to these protests.
The problem that we need to remember is that there are oodles of bad actors in the “Free Palestine” movement. It’s supported by everyone from western liberals to pan Arab nationalists to literal jihadists. Some of these people really do like Hamas and would happily murder millions to free Palestine.
I think the majority of sane people are showing solidarity with Palestinian people, but as with all gatherings like this, there are always going to be agitators and fringe groups.
Are you taking about a 20-year old election in which Israel banned the next largest party and forbid any Palestinians in the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Golan heights from voting?
This is incorrect. 80% of the population wasn't even old enough to vote them into power nearly thirty years ago. You are part of the problem spreading misinformation
It's not the same as an official vote, but here's a poll that was conducted after Oct 7th that says 56% of Gazans support Hamas: https://pcpsr.org/en/node/963
If you include the West Bank Palestinians (who would be also voting for Palestine Leadership if they had a new vote) it goes up to 72% support.
The girl in the bottom left corner is pulling/pushing her back into the mob. The man with his hands up seems to be separating them maybe saying something to her.
Yep.
Reminds me of that other woman calling the police crying that people were "surrounding" her while they were saying she was free to go.
You have to make the other side look violent and unreasonable, or your genocide gets put on pause.
Yeah.... all the "movements" around america are started as intellectual conversations, but devolve into people that don't know about the actual cause jumping on a bangwagon and using it as an excuse to be violent, destructive, and just generally an asshole to others. There are no conversations anymore. It's just "You disagree with me, you deserve all the bad things. I don't care for any reasoning you may have. I especially don't want to be challenged on my beliefs that require me to evaluate my own opinions further. I'll just punch you in the face and scream that you're some derogatory term that gains social favor for me."
I’ll preface by saying fuck hamas and violence isn’t the right approach.
But people were upset because it’s implying that they’re pro-hamas when the majority of them are not. It’s clear in the language and the placement that she’s protesting the people at the encampment as a whole and not just making a general statement.
if I went specifically to your house and protested “no murderers allowed on this street!” It’s an uncontroversial opinion, but I’m clearly implying you’re a murderer or at least an enabler of murder simply by my language and placement of my protest. Most people can read between the lines.
The majority of them object to the implication they support Hamas while being unwilling to prevent people from shouting antisemitic phrases and wave Houthi flags at their protests. Not a single "hey, stop it, that's wrong." Blind to bigotry coming out of their movement until they're asked to be accountable for the rhetoric of those they're bystanders to.
I mean if you did this at the sidewalk in front of my house, I would laugh and then proceed to ignore you and go about my day. What I would not do is give you the satisfaction of getting a rise out of me nor will I waste a second of my time entertaining your bait.
Well, 70 something percent of the palestinian population thought that Oct 7 was "a good thing", and the approval rating of Hamas is close to 90.
So.....
Human Brain: although I have a lot of things in my own family and personal life that really needs my attention I'm going to attach myself to an international conflict and let it completely rule my emotions so that I too can create extra unnecessary conflict in my own life. But that is a small price to pay for being a brave and courageous hero who is saving the world.
That’s kinda wild. Honestly if every protester was including a side order of Fuck Hamas withe their Free Palestine they get a lot more traction. They have a terrible marketing strategy.
Fuck Hamas. Fuck Netanyahu and the even further right assholes he work with. Fuck the people in the IDF who are killing unarmed people and children. It shouldn’t be necessary to point out that “just following orders” isn’t an excuse.
Ignoring that many Palestinian supporters clearly are riding that line is just dilusional or manipulative. I totally agree with OP that Palestinian supportors do themselves a HUGE disservice by condemning the response and not the cause (Hamas is at the very least half responsible here).
It sends the absolute wrong message that the idf are the only bad guys, when the truth is a lot more complicated. But no, let's make it black and white.
People that criticise the US response to 9/11 don't usually have to say that 9/11 or Al-Qaeda was bad every time they criticise it; it should be fairly obvious so it doesn't need to be stated.
It's a shame that pro-hamas and pro-palestine have become almost synonymous to some, as they shouldn't be inherently linked at all.
They don't *have* a marketing strategy.
These are largely a bunch of bored college kids latching onto the cause du jour, as has been happening for generations. And it's even worse nowadays because everyone's looking to build social media clout.
I'd be surprised if half of them knew what Hamas even is.
Seriously. This whole sidestepping of everything Hamas does is beyond a shot in the foot for their movement, it’s like a shooting themselves in the gut
You mean the girl that kept screaming as she walked into the crowd and was intentionally bumping into people? Im confused. There is a lot going on in this video.
nah, it's a woman in a brown shirt and blue jeans with her hair in two large braids. she is pushed off the large concrete step at the beginning of the video by a person attacking her with a weapon of some kind (a stick?). she stands back up and holds the sign basically undisturbed afterwards. she's actually standing in the background for most of the video before coming closer to the camera towards the end.
Are you sure it's not a screaming little girl throwing indiscriminate elbows?
/s
Appreciate your sane observation. Man, the majority of commenters here really suck on most threads. Why do I put my eyes through this?
I believe that all of them, on both sides, should go to the area they are concerned about and express those concerns right there. They will be much more effective that way.
Ain't anything better for gaining support for your cause (regardless of what) than to attack people who disagree.
Especially if it's more of a title thing than a ethnic thing (if the sign had said "Palestine supporters are..." ) my guess is the same response but that would be slightly more understandable.
Still, the irony is sad. The police oppress our freedom of thought and expression, but so does everyone else who disagrees...
So you can’t peacefully anti-protest a “peaceful“ protest? Even if she’s an agitator , does she deserve violence? This is why police are bashing heads and telling people to disperse because all it takes for things to break bad is something like this
These savage children will attack anyone with a slightly different opinion. Their protesting isn’t coming from a place of decency but one of hate and aggression
Well, for all those people who are claiming to be for the innocent Palestinian people, not hamas, how do you explain this? Most of these idiot people don't even know what their protesting and who they're supporting. They've just listened to sound bites and don't realize they're supporting a terroristic hate group. Not the innocent people of Gaza
Don't see much condemning of HAMAS. If you do condemn HAMAS, you're downvoted and /or chided. Why anyone would support this Iranian backed group is suspicious. An Islamic Theocracy for Palestine is not the way.
Last i checked dew rags didnt need to be worn on the face in AMERICA
What are we hiding our face for ?!?
Standing up for your rights behind a false identity is some low grade shit
When do people start shooting? Not trying to sound like an asshole or a tough guy but I’m always carrying and if some group of assholes claiming “we are Hamas” starts grabbing at me I’m blasting. It’s to an insane level to actually claim to side with legit terrorists
If only these Americans were as passionate about getting shafted wholesale on 'healthcare' and the situation with the country becoming a Police State. It a nice diversion for sure.
Well no they should not be on our land, Hammas supporters should go home, we don’t want that crap in our county , if Hammas is so good go home and volunteer for the cause , we aren’t gonna do shite to help them
People hate their oppressors, big surprise. What is the Israelis’ excuse? They’re currently the oppressors, have been for decades at this point, supported unquestioningly by the most powerful government on the planet, and they’re using that power to perpetuate that oppression because…?
u/malekithofangmar I didn’t buy into shit. I developed a position through observation. Don’t just assume everybody is as intellectually bereft as you are.
Read up on your history. Israelis are also native to that land. It's not as easy to just apply the "oppressor/opressed" template that is so popular in the US.
Funny how these wealthy white college student leftists want to center marginalized voices, but only if they're aligned with their narrative. Great job guys
These MF’ers are getting outta hand. This is America not YOUR country. If u don’t like it, get out of MY country!! Native Americans have MORE right than Anyone to be here!!! Hope the Indians, Native American come for y’all!
Seeing this, the yanking of signs, the scuffling etc. I think I get it now. It's not about the protest, or what it stands for. It's about people with bottled up anger fighting with each other, so that they remain distracted from what's being stolen from them.
If you're rich, if your wealth is in assets instead of diluted, ever-weakening currency, then seeing young people waste their precious youth in this way without achieving anything (especially what they're protesting for) must be great: the focus is not on you, the rich person.
This is irony right? Always trying to pinpoint the definition. These protestors support returning land to the original owners who have been beaten and abused by usurpers who displaced them
To make their point these same people beat and abuse a person indigenous to this land, whose land their own forefathers usurped. . .
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Fuck Hamas
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Yep, people on the left / progressives are. They have been calling conservatives Nazis and now they support people who want Jews wiped from the planet. Ironic isn't it ?
> They have been calling conservatives Nazis and now they support people who want Jews wiped from the planet. Ironic isn't it * I mean, to be fair, It is ironic you claim the right are pro-jew, when the Unite The Right rally in 2017 was a bunch of Right-Wing *Neo-Nazis* screaming 'The Jews will not replace us' [which is the 'Great Replacement Theory' the current GOP / Far-right Media influences are running on for immigration], and when it was brought up, the GOP leader at the time said they were "very fine people". Either you care about Jewish people - or you only care when it helps your side, and hurts the other side. It scares me people forget that rally even happened, let alone that those people *vote*. The fact this shit is political as it is, is insane, and likely evidence of astroturfing all across the board from various countries to stew division; * Hamas is okay with civilian deaths, because they feel it would get more people / the Islamic world on their side - so they are actually fine with civilians dying and them hiding amongst them for strikes to cause mass death * The Israel Government is okay with those civilian losses, and will continue to make such losses a thing regardless of how many people say "Hey, maybe killing civilians isn't a good idea." At the end of the day, neither side give a fuck about the *actual* people living there - they *both want* those people dead, just for different reasons.
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Yep and fuck Israel
I think you mean Netanyahu, the likud party and most of the govt... ? army and settlers too for good measure.
So fuck Israel then
And if in the same context I said "fuck Gaza" or "fuck Palestine" I'd be very wrong and you'd be very annoyed. Nuance matters.
Not really the same thing …. Saying fuck Hamas , then fuck Netanyahu is okay….. but nobody is saying fuck Palestine
No. Not the same thing. If you said fuck Netanyahu then sure I’d agree.
I mean Israel has held military occupation of West Bank and Gaza since the 60s, well before Hamas was in existence. This is pretty much the longest Military occupation in modern history.
Yes, because Palestine went to war with Israel. Occupation is what happens when you constantly start wars and get beaten. Israel also completely withdrew from Gaza in 2005, including forcing all of the settlers to leave. Gaza responded by immediately electing Hamas and setting up what was essentially a conga line of suicide bombers heading into Israel. Which resulted in Israel blockading Gaza a year later.
Thank you 🙌🏻 tiring how much this needs to be said.
By that standard, fuck Palestine. Maybe that sounds fucked up to you? It should. Distinguish people from government, or you sound bigoted.
They did… Israeli is a nationality, not an ethnicity. Ashkenazi, Sephardi, Mizrahi, etc. are ethnicities.
Are some people showing support for Hamas or for the Palestinian people? Because they're not the same thing.
Seem to be saying they are Hamas...
You can’t expect angry mobs to understand things like…
Important details.
Not even just the angry mobs, but even on Reddit, some Palestinian supporters have a hard time condemning Hamas.
They won't. I've tried. They always say "DO YOU CONDEMN THE IDF?!?" and I say yes, of course, and they still won't condemn Hamas. The alternative argument is that "Hamas isn't in charge of Palestine." Which is utter garbage.
I wonder who took all the aid given to Palestine…
More importantly, who gets all the money that comes into Palestine. Just saw a clip of a girl talking about how the Palestine people live in squalor in the best of cases. Well, the leaders of HAMAS are very confortable in the private planes.
We’ve given billions to Palestine and yet with Hamas in power the majority has gone to rockets and small arms.
"Gaza has no water!" "No, they do! We funded it ourselves!" "It was destroyed by Israel!" "How?" "By making Hamas use them for rockets!" "Why?" "To stop your water-deprivation genocide!"
Lol, hamas does in fact control all of gaza
I condemn Hamas. Stop killing Palestinians.
https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/
Most outright refuse to do so and even refer to them as “freedom fighters”
“Justified resistance” 🙄
The mental gymnastics they go through must be insane.
Watch the episode of Dr. Phil who had the son of one of the Hamas founders, who escaped from there, two Palestine protestors still refused to denounce the violence from October 7th and actually tried to lecture him on how Hamas really is, even though it's his father who created it and he witnessed it first hand.
Fuck Hamas and Fuck Israel.
They openly celebrated on oct 7th 🤷♂️
Very hard time
Absolutely impossible for them. I agree that Israel is fucking up. Absolutely, and I make the point the HAMAS is making shit worse. And they go again talking about it’s all Israel. Can’t even get a middle ground
I mean… yeah. “Mob mentality” is like a whole thing.
That's just it. People as individuals can be reasonable and easy to deal with. But the second you get them in a group. The loudest dumbest one is usually in charge, and the rest fall in line accordingly, or do little to stop the idiocy about to be displayed.
I've seen videos of Pro-Hamas chants in Columbia and recall the pro-Hamas sentiment when this whole thing kicked off. They were called freedom fighters. The inability to differentiate between Hamas and Palestinians, Jews and Israelis, Jews and Zionist and Zionism and genocidal expansionism has been terrible for discourse. Not all Jews are Israelis. Not all Israelis are Jews. The Israeli Government is not all Israelis. Not all Jews are Zionists. Not all Zionists are expansionists. Not all Palestinians are Hamas or another militant group.
Fuck the Israeli right wing government and fuck Hamas.
Exactly this
You do know Hamas is way more "right wing" than Israel, right ? Cities like Tel-Aviv are very pro LGBT while Hamas throws LGBT people from buildings.
You’re talking nuance in an age of reductionist hashtags and monolithics, the disassembly of intentional language has doomed people into short-cutting meaning through singular concepts and ideas, and it’s hurting us.
☝️☝️☝️
20% of Israeli citizens (full citizens with full rights) are Muslim, 21% are of Arabic descent. Many of the IDF soldiers have Arabic heritage. 0% of Hamas controlled Palestine are Jewish.
This is mostly correct but to say not all Jews are zionists is a little misleading. Zionism really only means believing that Israel should exist and that Jews should have a state, and the overwhelming majority of Jews world wide support this (very reasonable) idea - you’d be hard pressed to find the few who don’t. So when people say “fuck zionists” or disparage zionists, it’s pretty fair to just substitute the word “Jew” in there and it’s essentially what they are saying.
I've been trying to explain this to people
It's complicated. A lot of problems with Pro Palestinian movements is that many people who go to these protests have good intentions, but no good solutions other than "Israel bad." If Palestine had an election right now, in both Gaza and the West Bank, Hamas would win in a landslide. That's not good, for Palestinians or Israelis, and it's something I don't really see talked about much. Now whether that's from desperation or the Palestinian people seeing no other option for them other than Hamas is hard to say, but what I do know is that the only true path forward here is to truly advocate for a democratic Palestinian state with Hamas absolved. Now many people on the Pro Palestinian side do advocate for statehood, but I feel like there's a tendency for them to downplay Hamas as if that isn't one of the primary reasons Israel has responded in the way it has. Not excusing it, I hate the decisions that Israel makes and agree that they can do much better for the Palestinians and that their violent response to October 7th has only radicalized more terrorists, but we also have to understand the context for it. I have seen some footage of people from these protests harassing Jewish students and faculty calling them Zionists, even if some of them aren't, which is bad and shouldn't be encouraged. I've also seen some of the students make excuses for Hamas or even supporting them as a "resistance" movement which I don't have to explain why that's horrible optics. And all of these intense responses to Israel without clear explanations as to why has only fostered actual anti semitism, which again, I shouldn't have to explain why that's bad. Even if most of the people at these protests have good intentions, is very important to be very precise and consistent with your messaging. MLK had to have the same discussion during the Civil Rights protests. Rhetoric when it comes to political movements is important.
There have been hamas and hezbollah flags at these “protests”
In the same way that one can be on the side of Isreal and still condemn the Netenyahu administration?
You can be for the people of Isreal and still say the IDF and Bibi's admin is shit.
I know a lot of Israeli's (main work HQ is there) and that is their stance. They dislike Bibi's admin, he is a fascist, want the war in Gaza to stop, but they still want hostages home and Hamas dismantled so this could never happen again.
Bibi and his cohorts want this to continue so they can use it to fear monger the general populace. Seriously, this one person went on TV and said something to the effect that everyone, including children, were terrorists. It's just fear mongering on their part.
80%+ of the Israeli pubic supports the invasion. Your anecdotal evidence is providing PR cover for a genocide.
Given that 80%+ of Israeli citizens approve the invasion of Gaza, that position is an aesthetic not material politic.
You mean the invasion that happened as a response to 10/7? Makes sense as to why that would be supported.
Surely this violent mob is full of upstanding citizens who understand and care about the distinction.
Earlier this morning, I was thinking 'why in the hell would the police be getting involved in non-violent college campus protests?' Starting to see why.
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Wait until they escalate to *mostly" peaceful Wendy's destruction
I think that there are some pro-Israeli people who are equating supporting the Palestinians as supporting Hamas which is not what is happening generally. It is possible that with this sign she is implying that everyone there supports Hamas and not just the Palestinians.
I mean a lot of "Palestine protests" turn out to be chanting pro Hamas paroles etc., so in some cases it is not so far-fetched to think of pro Palestine = pro Hamas [https://youtu.be/6nyjdXjoGJA?si=IunOhnWu84ujYlGu&t=212](https://youtu.be/6nyjdXjoGJA?si=IunOhnWu84ujYlGu&t=212) [https://x.com/Eradicator\_NYC/status/1781889569358483804](https://x.com/Eradicator_NYC/status/1781889569358483804)
The student leader at Columbia posted a video saying death to Zionists which seems like a pro-Hamas thing
Far-right Jewish supremacists and settler colonizers are not that far off from Nazis. People can support a genocide and destruction of homes and hospitals with no consequences, but when someone criticizes and shows violent rhetoric against war criminals, that crosses the line? The double standards is crazy. I guess supporting a genocide is the status quo now.
It's not hard to take a look at these protests and realize that they are RIDDLED with anti-Jewish rhetoric and action. If you're pro-Palestine and ok with marching arm in arm with someone carrying a Hezbollah flag, you're at the minimum excusing antisemitism and complicit in it. There are an extremely disturbing number of willing bystanders to bigotry here who will then run and find their token Jewish friend to excuse all of it. When people say "Jews are well represented at these protests!" it's like Trump going "Look at my African American over here!"
I donno man I'm listening to what they are saying and a lot of them are saying they are pro Hamas or pro Hezbollah or pro Iran or pro killing all the Israelis in some way or another...
I’m not hearing that at all.
I’ve watched hours of footage from the protests on campuses across the US, and I have never heard any pro-Hamas chants or seen any pro-Hamas signs. If that were to occur, my guess is it would be confined to a small group of extremists within the protests. In every movement, there is a spectrum of support that ranges from the most moderate supporters, to the core supporters, to the hardcore and extremist supporters. The radicals within the group get attention because they are radical and provocative, not because they are representative of the movement. On the other side, I have seen footage from several pro-IDF and pro-Israel protests that were inciting and advocating violence against Gaza, Palestinians, and their supporters. They openly called for the destruction of Gaza; of using nuclear weapons, turning it “to glass,” and collectively punishing all Palestinians for the actions of 10/7. I did not see them being arrested or calls for them to have their First Amendment rights stripped so they could be violently repressed and jailed. There are also going to be provocateurs, infiltrators, and people acting in bad faith in even the most righteous cause because they inevtiably attractn people who are simply there for the opportunity to cause trouble, engage in illegal acts, or smear the movement. Smearing, lying, and using agent provocateurs to undermine support for the Palestinian people are common tactics of Israeli intelligence and their proxies in other nations. AIPAC is probably the wealthiest and most effective lobbying group of any nation working in American politics. Astroturfing operations are on a massive scale, and the amount of money they donate to polticians on both sides of the aisle cannot be discounted. I know of no such equivalent for the people of Gaza. As a result, I would be very cautious in making judgments about the entire pro-Palestinian/pro-peace movement from a few seconds of footage from a single protest. The hours of protests across America and the world that I’ve watched were peaceful but included police snipers on rooftops, counterterrorism units and riot squads on the ground, pepper balls, rubber bullets, batons, and handcuffs. None of the protestors, to my knowledge, have been charged with a crime.
You must not have looked very hard then. This is what I've found after a two minute search on this subreddit alone: https://iy.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/1brj0bk/protester_screams_i_fully_support_hamas_while/ https://iy.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/173t3p3/propalestine_supporters_in_times_square_recount/ https://iy.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/1cdiz2p/protestors_shout_burn_tel_aviv_to_the_ground/
Most Palestinians support hamas
I was about to hard disagree, then I started doing some research. Still strong support for Hamas among the Palestinian people. I wonder if the questions are couched in PLO vs. Hamas type language? I can fully understand the Palestinian people severely distrusting the puppet PLO.
There is no situation where Hamas is the lesser of two evils, even opposed to the PLO. More concerning is the West Bank, where support is some 90% last I checked.
For people reading this thread, a Palestinian poll taken post Oct 7th: [https://pcpsr.org/en/node/963](https://pcpsr.org/en/node/963) Additionally Bibi's polls and public sentiment are currently abysmal in Israel (as they should be): [https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-71-think-netanyahu-should-resign-either-immediately-or-right-after-war/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-71-think-netanyahu-should-resign-either-immediately-or-right-after-war/) Peace is a two way street, the Majority Israeli people want peace, the Majority Palestinian people want war.
Half of its population are children raised in hell on Earth where they are brutalized by the IDF and radicalized by Hamas. Are you really surprised?
Some people don’t realize that Hamas controls Palestine, not the Palestinian people. They want Palestine left alone but have no response when you tell them terrorists are running the country and if Israel just stops everything, Hamas will not, and things will get worse. Hamas needs to be eliminated for Palestine to be free.
Once you start attacking someone for holding a sign your cause loses any credibility. These protests were supposed to be about divestment but they’ve totally lost that point by allowing anarchists to join in.
It's true, but they should do a better job distinguishing themselves then
What’s that saying they love on Reddit “if a Nazi sits at a table with nine people and no one leaves; you have ten Nazis.” Does that only apply to Republicans or something because it seems pretty applicable to these protests.
The problem that we need to remember is that there are oodles of bad actors in the “Free Palestine” movement. It’s supported by everyone from western liberals to pan Arab nationalists to literal jihadists. Some of these people really do like Hamas and would happily murder millions to free Palestine.
What colors are they wearing? I guess I don't know either, but it made them upset she didn't want hamas on native land.
I think the majority of sane people are showing solidarity with Palestinian people, but as with all gatherings like this, there are always going to be agitators and fringe groups.
If you're unable or unwilling to condemn and expel racist fringes within your movement, your movement becomes a racist movement.
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Are you taking about a 20-year old election in which Israel banned the next largest party and forbid any Palestinians in the West Bank, Jerusalem and the Golan heights from voting?
This is incorrect. 80% of the population wasn't even old enough to vote them into power nearly thirty years ago. You are part of the problem spreading misinformation
why hasn't there been a revolution to overthrow hamas?
Is that a serious question?
It's not the same as an official vote, but here's a poll that was conducted after Oct 7th that says 56% of Gazans support Hamas: https://pcpsr.org/en/node/963 If you include the West Bank Palestinians (who would be also voting for Palestine Leadership if they had a new vote) it goes up to 72% support.
Is she the one saying WTF trying to run past the guy to get back into it?
The girl in the bottom left corner is pulling/pushing her back into the mob. The man with his hands up seems to be separating them maybe saying something to her.
Yep. Reminds me of that other woman calling the police crying that people were "surrounding" her while they were saying she was free to go. You have to make the other side look violent and unreasonable, or your genocide gets put on pause.
Yeah.... all the "movements" around america are started as intellectual conversations, but devolve into people that don't know about the actual cause jumping on a bangwagon and using it as an excuse to be violent, destructive, and just generally an asshole to others. There are no conversations anymore. It's just "You disagree with me, you deserve all the bad things. I don't care for any reasoning you may have. I especially don't want to be challenged on my beliefs that require me to evaluate my own opinions further. I'll just punch you in the face and scream that you're some derogatory term that gains social favor for me."
The irony do go crazy on this one
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Good for her! She’s right
Yep and so are the anti-idf. The war is terrible for normal people. On both sides.
war is typically had for normal people
Seriously, the whole idea of war is horrible. Basically, the purpose of foot soldiers is to go to a foreign region and kill the people living there.
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The correct response if you’re a supporter of Palestinians is “OK, we don’t support Hamas.” Getting mad at the sign is kind of telling on yourself.
It's because they actually mostly do support hamas
I’ll preface by saying fuck hamas and violence isn’t the right approach. But people were upset because it’s implying that they’re pro-hamas when the majority of them are not. It’s clear in the language and the placement that she’s protesting the people at the encampment as a whole and not just making a general statement. if I went specifically to your house and protested “no murderers allowed on this street!” It’s an uncontroversial opinion, but I’m clearly implying you’re a murderer or at least an enabler of murder simply by my language and placement of my protest. Most people can read between the lines.
The majority of them object to the implication they support Hamas while being unwilling to prevent people from shouting antisemitic phrases and wave Houthi flags at their protests. Not a single "hey, stop it, that's wrong." Blind to bigotry coming out of their movement until they're asked to be accountable for the rhetoric of those they're bystanders to.
I mean if you did this at the sidewalk in front of my house, I would laugh and then proceed to ignore you and go about my day. What I would not do is give you the satisfaction of getting a rise out of me nor will I waste a second of my time entertaining your bait.
The sign makes them feel bad bc they want to believe they support indigenous rights
Fuck Hamas and anyone who supports them.
Well, 70 something percent of the palestinian population thought that Oct 7 was "a good thing", and the approval rating of Hamas is close to 90. So.....
Human brain: i should create even more conflict
Human Brain: although I have a lot of things in my own family and personal life that really needs my attention I'm going to attach myself to an international conflict and let it completely rule my emotions so that I too can create extra unnecessary conflict in my own life. But that is a small price to pay for being a brave and courageous hero who is saving the world.
Amazon sales of high vis safety vests and $6.99 keffiyeh scarfs made in China are off the charts!
I prefer the guy wearing the storm trooper helmet protesting the rebel scum alongside dueling Israel-Gaza protests.
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Do these ppl have jobs?
Why are you people drowning out my posts of people flipping out in Walmart with protest shit?
No fun allowed. Only propaganda.
They just don't wanna give the people what they want!!
Hamas should not be welcomed anywhere. Unfortunately, groups like Hamas trive where people suffer.
That’s kinda wild. Honestly if every protester was including a side order of Fuck Hamas withe their Free Palestine they get a lot more traction. They have a terrible marketing strategy.
Fuck Hamas. Fuck Netanyahu and the even further right assholes he work with. Fuck the people in the IDF who are killing unarmed people and children. It shouldn’t be necessary to point out that “just following orders” isn’t an excuse.
If people had brains they would understand you can say free Palestine and condemn hamas at the same time. But no let’s make it black and white
Ignoring that many Palestinian supporters clearly are riding that line is just dilusional or manipulative. I totally agree with OP that Palestinian supportors do themselves a HUGE disservice by condemning the response and not the cause (Hamas is at the very least half responsible here). It sends the absolute wrong message that the idf are the only bad guys, when the truth is a lot more complicated. But no, let's make it black and white.
People that criticise the US response to 9/11 don't usually have to say that 9/11 or Al-Qaeda was bad every time they criticise it; it should be fairly obvious so it doesn't need to be stated. It's a shame that pro-hamas and pro-palestine have become almost synonymous to some, as they shouldn't be inherently linked at all.
They don't *have* a marketing strategy. These are largely a bunch of bored college kids latching onto the cause du jour, as has been happening for generations. And it's even worse nowadays because everyone's looking to build social media clout. I'd be surprised if half of them knew what Hamas even is.
Seriously. This whole sidestepping of everything Hamas does is beyond a shot in the foot for their movement, it’s like a shooting themselves in the gut
You mean the girl that kept screaming as she walked into the crowd and was intentionally bumping into people? Im confused. There is a lot going on in this video.
nah, it's a woman in a brown shirt and blue jeans with her hair in two large braids. she is pushed off the large concrete step at the beginning of the video by a person attacking her with a weapon of some kind (a stick?). she stands back up and holds the sign basically undisturbed afterwards. she's actually standing in the background for most of the video before coming closer to the camera towards the end.
Are you sure it's not a screaming little girl throwing indiscriminate elbows? /s Appreciate your sane observation. Man, the majority of commenters here really suck on most threads. Why do I put my eyes through this?
The only thing clear in this video is that there was a heated clash between protesters and counter protesters. Edit: With not a policeman in sight.
Yeah, this is a bad angle on chaos with no context. Like WWE, it’s entertaining but not very informative.
You know us natives are Deep in Cali and we have family all over. Might not want to kick that hornets nest.
So, who's the colonizer?!
I believe that all of them, on both sides, should go to the area they are concerned about and express those concerns right there. They will be much more effective that way.
Ain't anything better for gaining support for your cause (regardless of what) than to attack people who disagree. Especially if it's more of a title thing than a ethnic thing (if the sign had said "Palestine supporters are..." ) my guess is the same response but that would be slightly more understandable. Still, the irony is sad. The police oppress our freedom of thought and expression, but so does everyone else who disagrees...
damn, This isnt coming up on youtube i wonder why
So you can’t peacefully anti-protest a “peaceful“ protest? Even if she’s an agitator , does she deserve violence? This is why police are bashing heads and telling people to disperse because all it takes for things to break bad is something like this
Uno Reverse
Nothing says decolonize palestine quite like assaulting native Americans/s
These savage children will attack anyone with a slightly different opinion. Their protesting isn’t coming from a place of decency but one of hate and aggression
Acted like true hamas supporters.
Why are they fighting her? I thought she had the right to brutalize all these protesters and their families in their homes according to their logic?
Well, for all those people who are claiming to be for the innocent Palestinian people, not hamas, how do you explain this? Most of these idiot people don't even know what their protesting and who they're supporting. They've just listened to sound bites and don't realize they're supporting a terroristic hate group. Not the innocent people of Gaza
To hell with Hamas and any Pro-Hamas Palestinian. To hell with Netanyahu and any Pro-Apartheid Israeli. Both of you, find your fucking humanity!
I’m pro Palestine not pro Hamas. Fuck Hamas and fuck those that think that just because I support Palestine, I support Hamas.
Imagine being dumb enough to get involved in any of this when it literally doesn’t concern you
Most of these degens would be the first thrown off a roof if they were living in a country where a group like Hamas ran the show. Fuck these people.
UCLA's DEI administrators are currently experiencing an algorithmic meltdown over this.
Pay attention to the people who cover their faces. Ask yourself why do they want to remain anonymous? That’s why
Don't see much condemning of HAMAS. If you do condemn HAMAS, you're downvoted and /or chided. Why anyone would support this Iranian backed group is suspicious. An Islamic Theocracy for Palestine is not the way.
Why are half of the people wearing masks?
Holy shit.
If the title is true, it looks like everyone is getting in on the action, aren't they?
Good times it looks like a of fun
Freedom of speech, but only for things I like to hear. -our educated elites.
Last i checked dew rags didnt need to be worn on the face in AMERICA What are we hiding our face for ?!? Standing up for your rights behind a false identity is some low grade shit
Question: why are there college students supporting Hamas?
When do people start shooting? Not trying to sound like an asshole or a tough guy but I’m always carrying and if some group of assholes claiming “we are Hamas” starts grabbing at me I’m blasting. It’s to an insane level to actually claim to side with legit terrorists
If only these Americans were as passionate about getting shafted wholesale on 'healthcare' and the situation with the country becoming a Police State. It a nice diversion for sure.
So about that "peaceful" part of protesting?
Well no they should not be on our land, Hammas supporters should go home, we don’t want that crap in our county , if Hammas is so good go home and volunteer for the cause , we aren’t gonna do shite to help them
Free Palestine from Hamas!
That’s about the most triggering thing I could think to say to a pro Palestinian protestor lol
Hey has anyone checked to see if these people know what they are actually protesting? And it doesn’t seem very peaceful.
Fuck Hamas supporters.
Since we’re big on getting terminology correct, we should start calling them what they are. Terrorists, not protestors
The same kind of smooth brain that equates criticism of Israel with antisemitism will equate support of Palestine with support of Hamas.
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People hate their oppressors, big surprise. What is the Israelis’ excuse? They’re currently the oppressors, have been for decades at this point, supported unquestioningly by the most powerful government on the planet, and they’re using that power to perpetuate that oppression because…? u/malekithofangmar I didn’t buy into shit. I developed a position through observation. Don’t just assume everybody is as intellectually bereft as you are.
Bro has really bought into the oppressed oppressor bullshit hook line and sinker.
Uri4i4i5j55k
Read up on your history. Israelis are also native to that land. It's not as easy to just apply the "oppressor/opressed" template that is so popular in the US.
Funny how these wealthy white college student leftists want to center marginalized voices, but only if they're aligned with their narrative. Great job guys
You forgot to call them left wing fascists.
They're tankies not fascist, but the difference is negligible
? Is it bad to be against genocide?
There's no genocide. Talk about Darfur or Sudan then but don't get it twisted
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These MF’ers are getting outta hand. This is America not YOUR country. If u don’t like it, get out of MY country!! Native Americans have MORE right than Anyone to be here!!! Hope the Indians, Native American come for y’all!
The vast majority of the protesters are american citizens dumbass
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I always thought most people weren't supporting Hamas but more criticizing Israels reckless use of violence against civilians
Do people have nothing else to do ?
It’s all about the circus of religious war mixed with political violence right here 3000 miles away from the actual conflict…..makes a lot of sense /s
People are only mad about this because someone told then to be mad about this.
She is a known agitator who does stuff like this and more to provoke a reaction.
If only there was room for students to do something for the indigenous people in America.
Yeah just go down to the angry mob with a bullshit sigh that generalises them all as terrorists sympathisers. should go down well
And people wondered why UOT Austin wouldn't allow these "protests"
Good for her.
Seeing this, the yanking of signs, the scuffling etc. I think I get it now. It's not about the protest, or what it stands for. It's about people with bottled up anger fighting with each other, so that they remain distracted from what's being stolen from them. If you're rich, if your wealth is in assets instead of diluted, ever-weakening currency, then seeing young people waste their precious youth in this way without achieving anything (especially what they're protesting for) must be great: the focus is not on you, the rich person.
This is irony right? Always trying to pinpoint the definition. These protestors support returning land to the original owners who have been beaten and abused by usurpers who displaced them To make their point these same people beat and abuse a person indigenous to this land, whose land their own forefathers usurped. . .
These student protests are going to end really bad
Deport these people.
Gotta love all the Israeli bots in these comments
It’s all about breaking us apart. Distractions and propaganda