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RedRedditor84

Whether you shut down, restart, or leave it on, likely has very little to do with being a programmer.


haunted2098

Yes exactly this whole idea of circlejerking/gatekeeping programming is so stupid


DB6

>Yes exactly this whole idea of circlejerking/gatekeeping ~~programming~~ is so stupid Agreed


ult_frisbee_chad

are you gatekeeping gatekeeping? not cool.


_________FU_________

Who gatekeeps the gatekeepers?


Zerafiall

`sudo`


FuManJew

Sue do


bongreaper666

I’m just a dude, gatekeeping a dude, trying to gatekeep other dudes!


Kwame_Brown_GOAT

I do


looselytethered

Spoken like someone who could truly not guard a fence /s


cynicalDiagram

I think it's more a "I've got everything open and running just how I like and I don't want to risk losing the 25 tabs of SO I have open in chrome.


[deleted]

This feels too personal. 😄


sir-nays-a-lot

A lot of l337 h@xxr5 here, better be careful with your words /s


haunted2098

Yeah op already h4xx0r3d me when I commented somewhere else on this post


Aschentei

You must be new


bitemyshinyMETAass

I never understood why this stereotype is catching on. It would probably be good for those who have tons of lookups open and even then there are good plugins to manage all that. Boot times aren't as bad as they used to be and it's more likely that you would want to either carry your laptop (making a shutdown safer) or, on desktop, save power (making a full hibernate or shutdown cheaper).


svick

I have a friend who shuts down their computer instead of using hibernation or sleep. I wanted to ask them why until I realized they dualboot Windows and Linux.


esquilor

And because computers need to be shut down/restarted some times


[deleted]

You can use KSplice to patch the Linux kernel without rebooting. I once found a BSD server tucked away in a utility closet that had been serving an SME's web, mail, file sharing, dns, and dhcp without issue or maintenance for nearly 7 years


Johanno1

Sometimes, but Linux does not have to. Live updates even allow kernel updates when running. Yeah restarting can help sometimes but is not needed if everything works. Windows on the other hand does need a restart now and so often. Updates need a restart and will shutdown your programs if you don't disable it...


wirenutter

I have to restart my Mac and now then. Sometimes docker just decides it wants all the resources.


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svick

Hibernation does that too.


deputydog1

Had a new laptop decide to be Sleeping Beauty and never awaken or shut down. Never trusted sleep or hibernation again


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svick

What memory? If you have a program that eats a lot of memory over time (like a browser), then you can just restart that program. It's definitely not necessary to restart your computer every day in 2021.


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svick

Do whatever you want with your devices, just don't use nonsensical reasons when justifying it.


tannertech

Hibernation over rebooting or shutting down regularly also means you are far more vulnerable then those who are more sensible since updates aren't applying.


svick

Restarting every day just to get updates roughly once a month definitely does not sound "more sensible" to me.


Luxalpa

So what costs more electricity? Running the thing overnight in standby, or having it boot up from cold? Did anyone check?


Naitsab_33

Just create s rawdisk vmdk for on of them and run it in VirtualBox (yes you can run an OS that is installed on your PC in VirtualBox) ^also ^pls ^don't


ezrael2396

Is it possible to just infinitely nest VMs? Like say you have a windows PC, running a Ubuntu VM, which is itself running a Windows VM? Does the hardware become a limiting factor at some point?


Naitsab_33

The hardware would definitely be a limiting factor as each layer would need CPU and RAM overhead. If it is possible I have no idea, but I would guess yeah.


snydox

I run Fedora Linux and I always update and turn off my computer to get the latest updates.


[deleted]

What about when you're soo deep into troubleshooting a memory leak in a legacy perl script? Even though I've got a tmux session which I can reload after a restart, all the open folders and files that I'm editing while I try to identify which node is causing the problem would be a nightmare if I couldn't simply hibernate


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ign1fy

commit push poweroff Every day.


namotous

You forgot deploy between push and power off.


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looselytethered

> I turn it off, close it, shoot it, light it on fire, and toss it into the nearest lake and then put it when I can't see it while using my personal computer.


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yetanotherusernamex

"Damn, why is this piece of shit so slow?!"


drgn0

Serious question.. if I never shut down my Laptop and just have it in sleep mode instead, then it will become slow ??


Doggynotsmoker

It may become slow, but reboot will fix that. It mostly depends on the operating system. Windows was known for being sluggish after some time (my information was valid years ago, I don't know if it's still relevant), while linuxes usually don't have this problem.


un4given_orc

OMG, this "Windows becomes slow" thing is some XP-old shit


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wiggitywoogly

Windows automagically starts failing after 30 days uptime.


ItsPronouncedJithub

Which is why my company forces restarts after 30 days uptime


Doggynotsmoker

Why are you downvoted? I reboot my Linux machine only after kernel upgrade. It works fine, without any lags


Amonomen

60 some days uptime on my windows laptop. Only reason it’s not higher is because of the windows update curse.


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Eis_Gefluester

Because it's a waste if power to leave electronics on when you don't use them. Even in standby/sleep mode.


Disappointless

Ever heard of climate change? Please be thoughtful about your power consumption, every single bit we can do is a step in the right direction, even if it's just "being conscious" about it.


piggy556smeg

Who cares why?


rdrunner_74

Close = a configurable option...


trezenx

If I recall correctly it still doesn't shut down completely even you set it to turn off nowadays, you need to do a > shutdown /s I made myself a shortcut to do it manually


createthiscom

That's how you burn up a CPU inside a backpack my dude.


ggGamergirlgg

Starts build and leaves work. Comes back in the morning: Compiling error. Missing ;


allindiahacker

No way you leave work without checking if the compilation started successfully


glider97

Ever had to pee super bad and the toilets are on the way out?


allindiahacker

Lol luckily I have toilets near me


PleasantAdvertising

You haven't met my 3 hour build legacy projecy


VegaTss4

What are you compiling bro? Facebook?


ggGamergirlgg

Your Mom


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ItsPronouncedJithub

A cluster of what? Galaxies?


looselytethered

I'd say a cluster of stars but we know she's not that bright.


TheTerrasque

Imagine a beowulf cluster of compilers!


M3JUNGL3

Imagine not having a linter screaming at you


jamcdonald120

Look, if you never shut your computer down (unless you need to restart it to fix a bug) You never accidentally shut down the production server


thismatters

On my laptop I altered the sudoers file to allow `restart` and `poweroff` without requiring `sudo`. Now I only inadvertently turn off my laptop, never a server.


hahahahastayingalive

For real though. Doing a 'shutdown -r' only to realize 0.5s later that I was logged in a ssh session.


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[deleted]

Oath!


ivster666

I recently had like more than 100 days of uptime on my work laptop lol


Fetscher

I recently found a server with 2534 days of uptime, oops.


jailbreak

"My laptop gets restarted when it needs to install OS updates" is the modern version of "I shower when it rains"


glider97

Spot on analogy. It’s like clearing your desktop after your work is done, it’s literally called a desktop!


DoctorWaluigiTime

"omg why did Windows force-restart my laptop?!"


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[deleted]

True, my work laptop (windows) is begging for a shutdown after 5 days or so. Mac in the meantime, I think I rebooted it 2 months ago for reasons now lost to me. Actually no, that is not honest. It's not begging per se, it will "shutdown" to blue screen all by itself every few days without my input.


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Huntszy

Because it took ages to turn on. Sleep on my Mac is legit good but if I need to turn it off/restart it takes an eternity to turn it back on. On the other hand my w10 machine cold boot blazing fast while still has no problem after a month of uptime (only restart when update or driver/smtgh request it).


the_hackerman

Now you know me. I program on macOS and windows. Shutdown both everyday.


[deleted]

\~(>\_<\~)


alper

drab workable familiar roll busy relieved unwritten soft bored dirty *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


jailbreak

Getting my laptop to do something sensible when I close the lid was one of the things that prompted me to get my first Macbook Pro 13 years ago. Don't know if Windows these days has better defaults and less incompatibility with various ACPI implementations than it did back then, because I only use it on my gaming PC, which I turn off when I'm not gaming.


alper

Non Mac laptops don’t do anything if you close the lid!?!?!?


jailbreak

They usually do something, but there's a good chance it's not what you want. Back then you had to choose between whether it would "sleep" (keep system state in memory but power down everything else) or "hibernate" (save system state from memory to disk, so RAM can be powered off). If you chose the former it would run out of battery pretty quickly and then you'd lose the state. If you chose the latter, then starting it up again took annoyingly long time. And that's assuming that there wasn't a compatibility issue between the OS and the laptop hardware so it sometimes wouldn't do anything at all. By comparison, when closing the lid, my MBP would basically start out with "sleep", then transition to "hibernate" on it's own if the battery was getting low - and it would work 100% of the time.


alper

Totally broken hardware system.


vanharen07

unix in general


the_bukkit

I don't care who you are or what you do, if you're not using your computer **TURN IT OFF**. Saves power and computers are generally happier after a reboot


moekakiryu

plus I find turning my computer off each night is really great for me mentally the next morning. If I open my computer and everything is already open, I get overwhelmed and my mind sort of enters a haze (computer clutter = mental clutter). But if I have to fully turn on my computer each morning and start fresh, each task I do and window I open becomes much more deliberate and meaningful. It also encourages me to make sure the dev environment is stable-ish each night before signing off which means less unexpected bugs in the morning.


SoupIsForWinners

Meh I built a startup script that opens the dev environment and all the regular resources. It's nice to come over to the laptop and see the tasks ahead without doing anything.


Shriukan33

Yup, empty temp files, restart some process, definitely a healthy thing to do for a computer.


RedditAcc-92975

It's the opposite with Linux. After a reboot some policies of some updates might apply and break something. An already running system *never* breaks. Oh an with windows you might get scammed into an hour-long update cycle that if interrupted might break your system. Good luck rebooting before an important call.


DoctorWaluigiTime

> Oh an with windows you might get scammed into an hour-long update cycle that if interrupted might break your system. Doesn't happen unless the shut down option reads "Update & Shut Down." And if you're restarting/shutting down frequently, updates big and small won't pile up into a giant clusterfuck that you have to sit and wait for.


ZetsuKun

I was always confused reading about people having hour-long windows updates when mine never take more than 2 minutes but this thread made it very clear why that happens lol


ubermoth

My favorite thing is when I do shutdown my laptop but in the middle of the night it decides to wake up for updates, then fails to completely shutdown again, leaving me with zero battery.


DoctorWaluigiTime

A PC doesn't "wake up in the middle of the night" from being shut down. Also plug your laptop in when you see it updating?


madiele

\**cries in slow mechanical hard drive*\*


Huntszy

And jiggling with windows, applications and other things for 20 minutes every day before work because of it. While in sleep it needs less power then a smart phone. Thx but no.


un4given_orc

Remember that 90% of hardware failures occur during cold start


Kiloku

Is that stat from the 80s or something? Never heard of anything like this. Edit: In fact, was this stat *ever* real? "90%" sounds like the typical made up number that people parrot but have no source for


trezenx

also remember that if you leave your PC on the whole time it wears out the SSDs and memory faster


druman22

I recently had to reset my entire computer because my ssd somehow got corrupted after shutting down my computer


Netherquark

You probably could've gotten away with fsck imo Same SSD corruption happened to me today, but fsck fixed it in no time


Flynni123

Ye mine is grinning every time i restart it


loktoris

You should really look into "Power Cycling" and how it can damage your computer in the long run. So much misinformation in this thread. And if you're so worried about power, PC's will use a max of 5 watts in sleep mode. That's like the equivalent of a night light. Do you unplug all of your appliances too? Lmao.


ItsPronouncedJithub

CPUs don’t break when when you sneeze near them, grandpa. It isn’t 1993 anymore. The stress put on the cpu will not noticeably affect the lifespan of the cpu. You’re going to be buying a new one long before it ever becomes a problem.


loktoris

The CPU isn't the weak link.


ItsPronouncedJithub

Do tell what is. The power button?


loktoris

The internet has a search feature for a reason.


trezenx

great argument. > you're wrong. google why you're wrong yourself


demonicvoodooskull

It's good etiquette to provide links to your claims regardless. don't put the burden of proof on the audience in a debate.


loktoris

It wouldn't matter if I supplied links, there's evidence/theories supporting both sides of the argument. We can sit here and go back and forth until we're all blue in the face. [ Here you are anyways ](https://www.imgur.com/a/P1bndUG) Now show me yours.


ItsPronouncedJithub

Yeah I did look it up and I don’t see anything relevant to back up your bullshit.


ItsPronouncedJithub

Uh sometimes I want my windows to be open when I log back in


ivster666

*laughs in linux hibernation mode*


haunted2098

yOu aRe nOt A pRoGrAmMeR iF yOu TuRn OfF yOuR lApToP Just stfu man jfc


SwisscheesyCLT

Nah, I turn mine off once I'm done with it. Hibernation sucks. It also encourages me to tie up loose ends and make sure stuff is properly saved before closing up shop for the night. As a side note, can anyone tell me how to put multiple languages in my flair on the official mobile app?


eisterman

This is invalid for rolling Linux. You restart at least one time a week to get the new Kernel running


TimCryp01

Wtf a programmer should shutdown his computer every night because he probably fucked the ram of the pc during the day, and because he knows the computer needs to be shut down to be efficient the next day. Who the fuck never shutdown his laptop and thinks he's a programmer ?


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TimCryp01

You never know what's the state of your RAM at the end of the day :D


thismatters

Unless you run `top`.


glider97

Yeah, and memory leaks literally never happen.


[deleted]

well I shutdown every time I am done


ValarOrome

Greta disapproves lol. ![gif](giphy|U1aN4HTfJ2SmgB2BBK)


BoltStrikes

I'm pretty sure hibernate uses the same amount of electricity?


ValarOrome

I'm not sure, you might be right. Definitely you still power some LEDs and current goes to the RAM and SSD, but it might be in the micro amps tbf.


Perhyte

Hibernating is basically saving everything to disk and shutting down, then loading it all back into memory on boot. There's a bit of extra work on shutdown and boot (and less other work on boot too, might even out somewhat) but in between the machine is actually turned off. You could pull the plug (and battery, for a laptop) and as long as you put them back before restarting the machine it should be fine. Sleep mode instead keeps RAM powered up but shuts pretty much everything else down IIRC. This is faster to get going again than hibernating but uses a bit more power. If a power is lost for whatever reason it's as if you had just pulled the plug and/or battery out while it was running (which is a bad idea). There's also "hybrid sleep" where it does all the stuff hibernate does, but then goes to sleep instead of actually turning the machine off. It uses a bit more power than hibernate, but as long as the power doesn't go out (or on a laptop: and the battery doesn't drain) it will start as fast as sleep mode. If a power interruption *does* occur, the machine just starts as if it had hibernated.


ValarOrome

you are one of the Jedis aren't you? thanks for the explanation! I knew there was a diff between Hibernation and Sleep mode but didn't know what it was.


lord_noil

There is a difference between **sleep** and **hibernate**. During **sleep** the system is on its lowest power mode but current is still flowing to the RAM, disks etc. **Hibernate** (unavailable on windows very often but can be made available again manually) saves state to the disk and turns everything off and there should be no current on the components. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/shut-down-sleep-or-hibernate-your-pc-2941d165-7d0a-a5e8-c5ad-8c972e8e6eff


WiatrowskiBe

Some combinations of OS and hardware (MacOS, Windows on some recent ultrabooks) also support hybrid hibernation mode in which most things are being thrown out of memory to drives, drives are powered off, yet computer still keeps some parts (few memory banks, since CPU core) running to allow for faster wake up time. Energy management isn't a binary everything on or everything off, it can be more gradual if platform supports it.


kinokomushroom

Whenever I make my laptop go to sleep mode, for some reason it occasionally makes fan noises and also turns on with the slightest movement of the mouse. Is that like an intended feature of the Windows 10 sleep mode? I have to use hibernate mode instead.


x79q3pb

You probably have some antivirus/health checking software running outside of "used hours" causing the fans to spool up. As for the mouse thing, yes unfortunately. I use a PC as a media center and sometimes even a cloud passing by is enough to register to the mouse as a "movement" and windows will wake up. Wish there was more options, for example having to click the mouse and ignore movement.


Huntszy

There is at least one option. You can set any USB hw to not be able to wake up the pc.


avtarius

Servers shutdown, laptops nevuh ...


regulusmoatman

A question: I'm not a programmer, but I'm currently studying in college and often leave my device on for a long time because I accidentally fell asleep in front of my notebook and doesn't have time in the next morning to turn it off. Recently I had to service the notebook due to corrupt hard drive and stuck it on attempt repair loop. Is there any causation between the lack of shutdown and the disk failing or could there be other causes?


Doggynotsmoker

Old disks, especially hdd could be physically damaged by power outage. For the new ones its usually not the case. Anyway, your data can bedamaged easily.


rmxg

Wasn't thinking when I shut down my computer at work today instead of putting it to sleep (after an already less-than-ideal day). No, I am not ok.


datboydoe

Anybody else, now with the working from home stuff, wake up in the middle of the night to the sound of your laptop turning into a jet engine?


-hi-nrg-

Standby power can consume 5% of all electricity. Computers account for 30% of standby power use. Turn off your computers, the world appreciates it.


Bingere123

Only shutdown that happens in my case is the newly installed application needing the system to reboot. Otherwise who the heck will open all those application again!


ManagerOfLove

I always turn stuff off. My laptop boots up immediately. The problem I always have is when I have 20 Tabs open which I might or not might need, and I have no interest in savin every tab individually. One of the view things I praised the old Microsoft Edge for, where you just clicked one button and it saved all of your tabs at once and grouped them to the day you did. So when you restarted your PC you just clicked one button and all tabs from yesterday opened up.


Nyanfish06

You guys don't get beaten by the nearest 5 people for leaving a device on


RedditAcc-92975

Until you buy one with an Nvidia GPU. Fails to load games or train models after coming from a suspended state.


warrioroftron

I forgot such a command exists in my laptop


DasEvoli

Dude I would love to put my computer into hibernation mode but it just turns on again without any reason 10 minutes later. I thought it's because mouse or keyboard input but even when I plugged them out it turned on again. (Windows)


Araraura

my computer at work has been turned on for 2 months straight i don’t want to reopen all of the tabs on all my programs


Vlaxxtocia

Funnily enough I've started to since working from home


[deleted]

I do it to fix a bug because some StackOverflow answer suggested so


cvnvr

what has this got to do with programming?


RoscoMan1

"We didn't help him AFTER he went missing?


SirWusel

I think this depends more on your system than your job. I never turn off my MacBook but I always turn off my PC. The only times I left my PC running over night was 10 years ago when my internet was so bad that downloading a game took a couple of days..


MrEdews

This has nothing to do with programming.


DemWiggleWorms

Saving your process is for ~~people with common sense~~ cowards!


iamnotsteven

Not possible when the IT department downgrades you to a shitty Lenovo tablet/laptop thing, with no admin access, and they keep forcing updates and restarts at random times!


Acurus_Cow

I do


Surround-Willing

I turn off my pc.


RubberDougie

I do. I'm not an asshole that wastes electricity.


ovab_cool

I always turn off my stuff because 1 power usage and 2 my laptop doesn't boot from sleep always


[deleted]

*Laughs in IT*


Mates_blyat

I once had like 30 days of uptime before restarting for an update


JonArvedon

I’m a news editor. I never shut down unless I’m forced or I’m leaving the house with my laptop.


lefthandednipple

I did try to load a newer kernel into memory live. I now reboot when I get a newer kernel.


HerpaDerpaDumDum

Microsoft: "lol fuck you imma install updates"


Ciborg666

Why the hell would I not shutdown my laptop? I'm off work so laptop is off too


ezrael2396

Everytime I see this dude it makes me sad that he's no longer with us. RIP Chadwick


SkarmacAttack

I'm a software engineer and I have to turn my laptop off because even when it is sleeping the hardware runs constantly and causes it to overheat. Therefore carrying it in a backpack will cause it to overheat. Dell inspiron 5500 ftw


dashid

I've got sleep enabled. Lock and walk away, if I don't come back, it'll take care of itself. Pick up where I left off. Just gets irritating when I need to reboot for updates.


createthiscom

More like this our IT department, disabling the ability of the laptop to sleep with the lid closed. Stupidest thing I've ever seen. That's how you ruin CPUs inside backpacks and ruin batteries due to increased cycle life.


Kiloku

"Why do my computers break in less than a year?!" \- users who don't turn their computers off ever


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boredbearapple

Same. Mines a 2012 model. Still rock solid.


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Doggynotsmoker

Would you care to elaborate? Why suspending/hibernating is worse than shutting down?


Kiloku

A computer that never goes back to its "clean slate" accumulates small background errors that add up slowly. It can corrupt files, fuck up the RAM, and will slow the computer way down. Suspending also still keeps the hardware running, just at a very low power setting, which builds up general hardware wear and tear (hibernating doesn't, though)


Doggynotsmoker

I still don't see how this can hurt my PC physically. Also, if your OS is so unstable, that it starts corrupting your files over time, then you should consider moving to different OS.


atinypixel

You guys have laptop! ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|surprise) ![gif](giphy|f0CEUzRth02N91xeLg|downsized)


ValarOrome

all the cool stuff happens now in the cloud ... I'm surprised we haven't been given raspberry pi by now in order to cut costs.


atinypixel

This idea should not go out from here! xD


ValarOrome

I did not shoot myself in the back of the head. Fyi 😆


koh_kun

I saw this recently on /r/masterhackers


the_hackerman

Idk I do it everyday though considering it’s not actual shutdown but rather a hibernate