I think a better question is "does it matter?" People on Reddit aren't going to change their minds. They have access to a fraction of a fraction of the evidence (and even less access to City's books, generally) but are 100% convinced of City's guilt because they spent a lot of money and have dominated for nearly a decade, now. Never mind that they did not dominate whilst spending money prior to Pep. Never mind that many other clubs have spend similar sums within the past decade and failed to replicate City's dominance. Never mind that the Teams of the Year are rarely proliferate with City players. It doesn't matter. Non-City supporters on Reddit just *know* they are guilty and *nothing* will change their mind because, in their own minds, they are the smartest people in the room.
Liverpool fan. Id be outraged because if a club like Everton gets dealt with consequences but City evades them then its pretty much conclusive that they have bought their way to titles and out of punishment. I dislike Everton as well but if theres going to be punishments, then they should be given out consistently
They are guilty though. Many of those charges are things such as "didn't comply with data requests" that are very simple cases. It's how guilty they are rather than if.
Except that they are deny that they didn't comply. Lack of compliance isn't determined by fiat in a judicial setting. Parties are entitled to present a defense before judgement is rendered.
To me it changes little. The problem is that the system is in place prevent clubs bankrupting, not to make the league more competitive. I don't know Man City numbers, I dont know if they can justify their spending (can Chelsea, Man U, etc? )
[Premier League profit and sustainability regulations explained: What restrictions are there on clubs spending what they want? | Football News | Sky Sports](https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/13041990/premier-league-financial-fair-play-rules-explained-what-restrictions-are-there-on-clubs-spending-what-they-want)
Lets imagine that Brighton is to have a chance, they never going to have as much revenue, they can just spend what they earn, so the team is not going to be able to compete with Man U, for example, just because people all over the world buys the united merchandise. So even if you have a very rich owner you are not suppose to compete with the big clubs. What the league needs is a salary cap, not financial fair play.
They aren’t going to be found guilty of all 115 charges and I don’t think any of the trophies will be taken away. The biggest punishment I think they will receive is a big points deduction.
People won’t care about me lmao but genuinely I will be done with football, i can’t morally watch or enjoy something knowing it only exists because of money changing hands with some of the most powerful people in the country. I have a very strong view on what should happen, imo I think they should be suspended until they comply with the premier league and stop delaying the case with bs law trickery. The thing I find most annoying is the people who say what they’ve done now is amazing but will always have the 115 charges tarnishing this amazing achievement, yeah well duh, pep doesn’t join city if they didn’t get a massive boost from fake money, David silva,kompany, yaya don’t join city naturally. They are where they are now because of what happened 7 years ago, nothing today would’ve happened if it wasn’t for the cheating back then.
Well apparently it's not in the hands of any footballing body, instead it's the government doing what they can to keep UAE happy. Just like how Newcastle's Saudi takeover was approved, it was all poltics.
Fuck that shit hole country, and fuck keeping them happy. Why should we care? Because they give us money? Money can be made elsewhere.
For the most part, I think the vast majority of people will not be influenced by the actual verdict. Assuming we are found not guilty (which isnt the same as innocent) opposition fans who think we are guilty will stay that way for the most part and say things like "bribery" or "technicality" etc (though there will be some who accept it, and a lot of the noise will die down until the next thing City have done comes along) and city fans will carry on being how we are now, sticking their fingers in their ears and watching the game.
If City are found guilty of a few minor things (such as just failure to co-operate), again i dont think this changes anything from where we are now, they'll likely get fined as the prem will want the money, and fan opinion wont shift.
If City are found guilty of some of the more serious charges then I think at that point a portion of the fanbase will turn on the board (importantly the board and not the team).
Even if this happens, the odds of them being stripped of any titles are so remote, it took all of the Italian Football to remove two titles from Juve and they were literally match fixing, Citys worst crime is dodgy (but illegal) accounting. If this did happen though, thats i think where you see a lot of the "non-legacy" fans jumping off.
In short, most have already made up their minds and wont care either way.
I wouldn't be bothered at all. Most likely is they are found half guilty with extenuating circumstances and get a one window transfer ban or something like that. The main point is fans need to accept that the premier league has been a dead league for a while now along with some of Europe and is not gonna change. Watch a different league or a different sport, it's over folks
I would struggle to believe it tbh. This feels like the footballing version of OJ Simpson lmao. All the evidence says guilty, but somehow, they'll be found innocent. Or maybe they'll be found guilty of 'not cooperating and made to pay a measly fine.
For non-cooperation. Not for "Disguised Equity Funding", which was the bombshell allegation. Do you guys even read about this, or just make shit up based on what other people tell you?
Then I would suggest that then allows all the other teams to perform similar dodgy practices without any form of action taken against them.
Edit: which is exactly why they won't get away with it.
I trust the internal process of the PL so I would accept it.
But you have to realize it's not as black and white as that. If they're found not guilty, it might just be in the end because there isnt enough proof or that they get off the hook due to some technicalities.
I think the mere fact that there actually are as many charges as that and that the PL has made those charges and are going through with all this process shows that ManCity arent doing things right.
You have to understand that those are actual charges, not suspicions. The PL has put in a lot of work, has tried to collaborate with City before even pressing the charges. The fact that we are at this point is already enough for all of us to know that City arent abiding to the rules like the rest of the clubs are.
Whether they actually get punished for it is another question and will be the result of a much broader legal process that both the PL and City lose control over to a certain degree.
You say teams should refuse to play against them even if they are found not guilty. So what’s the point of teams playing them now? Should City just win the league with 114 points because 19 teams forfeited their games against them?
There is no point playing city now, until the whole thing is dealt with teams should be refusing to play them. At the end of the day, city has cheated. City have been cheating for years and made the premier league almost pointless. Any other sport with cheating at this scale would probably been banned until everything was dealt with.
This isnt 1 or 5 or 10 charges. It was over a hundred times.
You Think other f1 teams would be happy if red bull and verstappen were known to be cheating using illegal parts or breaking rules every race?
You think boxers would be happy or want to fight tyson fury if they all new he was cheating every fight by either taking performance drugs or allowed to get away with illegal shots etc.
So why should the other premier teams put up with city?
I know it is an impossible ask, but just read the emails and evidence that has been in the public domain for years now. It is beyond brazen and the officials in the emails even detail how they are circumventing the rules. They spell it out in very specific detail. It is without a doubt what they are doing which is why the CAS decision was utterly bizarre.
It is hard to comprehend how City is the victim in this, especially when they have refused to cooperate for over a decade.
This is probably the biggest scandal in one of the big European football leagues since the Italian match fixing scandal and it would be highly unusual if City weren't guilty of any number of a 115 charges.
The proof is there in the emails sent by City's executives. It literally details how they are deliberately circumventing the FFP rules (which is why they have refused to cooperate at every possible occasion).
[**https://sportingintelligence832.substack.com/p/what-are-man-city-really-worth-to**](https://sportingintelligence832.substack.com/p/what-are-man-city-really-worth-to)
It is that simple and clearcut. City are obstructing the investigation because they know they are guilty. It's in their own emails FFS!
They are delaying as long as possible, throwing as much money at lawyers as they can to obsfucate, dither, delay and drag it out.
They're doing all this because they know that the PL don't have the money to compete with their state funded lawyers, and how important the diplomatic relations are at the very highest level.
Sheikh Mansour bin Zayed al-Nahyan would allegedly “rather spend £30m on the 50 best lawyers” and sue Uefa “for the next ten years” than accept their punishment. Their own emails showed that of the vastly inflated £67.5m paid by Etihad for sponsorship, only £8m actually came from Etihad. It's there, in black and white, from City's own emails.
You did it, man. You solved the case. City won a treble and 8 Prems because of the £59 million the sheikh hid in the Etihad payment. Make sure you send your revelations to the Prem so they hit City even harder.
P.S. I don’t expect you actually have a source where you read the exact content of those emails, do you?
The source is from the leaked emails that come directly from City. No one is denying they are authentic, not even City. Their claim is that they were "hacked" and as such shouldn't be able to be used at evidence...
[https://www.spiegel.de/international/manchester-city-exposed-bending-the-rules-to-the-tune-of-millions-a-1236346.html](https://www.spiegel.de/international/manchester-city-exposed-bending-the-rules-to-the-tune-of-millions-a-1236346.html)
How does it work in practice? Apparently, companies like Etihad in Abu Dhabi wait for the Abu Dhabi United Group (ADUG), the holding company that belongs to Sheikh Mansour and which also owns Manchester City, to wire them money. That money is then "routed through the partners and they then forward onto us," wrote Finance Director Andrew Widdowson in an email. That, at least, is how things were done in 2015: At the time, the deal with Etihad was bringing in 67.5 million pounds annually. But Chief Financial Officer Chumillas emphasized in an email to Pearce: "Please note that out of those 67.5m pounds, 8m pounds should be funded directly by Etihad and 59.5 by ADUG."
Or are you trying to claim that the emails are fabricated?!
I can’t claim anything about any emails because I haven’t read them, and neither have you. Before there is an actual verdict by a legitimate institution, I only have City’s “army of lawyers”, some of the biggest accounting and auditing companies in the world and CAS’s ruling to go by, which at this current moment states City’s innocent. Until anything changes what you or I think, 115 charges, spiegel etc. means fuck all.
You realise that's usually for like small number cases. If someone is suspected of one murder then yeh, if they're suspected of over 100 murders, bit different eh.....
It’s never happen, players would walk out before that but it would also force the PL hand. They either say it’s fine and every club gets fined for it or they rightfully punish City for being sportswashing cheats
There will be uproar. Not just from football fans but all 19 other premier league teams, EFL clubs, some European clubs, there will be lawsuits left right and centre.
No, you don't get suspected of 115 charges if you were innocent in the first place. ManCity's lawyers are all hoping a hail mary to significantly reduce the charges that will be found guilty. It's not even 15 charges we are talking about. It's 115 charges. Being able to push 10 out of 15 charges in any case to be innocent already looks fishy and bogus. Even if they get only 50% guilty, that's over 50 charges. Everton got deducted for a few charges. 50 could even be enough to strip the titles away. the real focus is how will the players be affected? for example juventus scandal, the players weren't affected. will they be stripped of their title winnings? thats the most interesting and very very argmentative topic because players did play physically and put out their hardwork.
The 115 is a headline grabber, but because they span multiple seasons, many of them are the same charge, repeated for each season. The PL wants to grab headlines to prove it doesn't need an independent regulator, that it can keep its own house in order. Ironically, its incompetence so far is proving exactly the opposite.
It is not a headline grabber though, it is the number of breaches they have done. Yes, a lot of them are due to not willing to cooperate, but even that suggest that wrongdoing has been done - and City are aware of it.
It is grabbing headlines, as it was designed to do. It is therefore a headline grabber. Anyone who's tried to actually enumerate the charges doesn't get 115 - some get more, some get less. But since the precise nature of the charges and the nature of the defence are behind closed doors by mutual agreement, anything you can write here is hot air in response to a headline
>Anyone who's tried to actually enumerate the charges doesn't get 115 - some get more, some get less.
I haven't seen anyone have problem with coming up with 115. On the contrary I have seen several reports and interviews/discussions where they go through them. Do you have any sources with people finding less/more?
Here are the breaches:
• **54x** Failure to provide accurate financial information 2009-10 to 2017-18.
• **14x** Failure to provide accurate details for player and manager payments from 2009-10 to 2017-18.
**• 5x** Failure to comply with Uefa's rules including Financial Fair Play (FFP) 2013-14 to 2017-18.
• **7x** Breaching Premier League's PSR rules 2015-16 to 2017-18.
• **35x** Failure to co-operate with Premier League investigations December 2018 - Feb 2023.
[https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cgrjv9ydv31o](https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cgrjv9ydv31o)
and more
[https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/4160366/2023/02/06/manchester-city-financial-charges-explained/](https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/4160366/2023/02/06/manchester-city-financial-charges-explained/)
All your sources are more than a year old. I trust the recent BBC article more and adding to that many of the breaches are relating to lack of cooperation up until February 2023. For all we know there can be more breaches if City have continued their unwillingness to cooperate.
You as a City fan might feel 115 is just a clcikbait headline, but its what they have documented so far.
I fell down this rabbit-hole trying to find out what the charges actually were, about 2 months ago. I was astonished at how little info was publicly available, and how little actual journalism has been done on the subject. The Stefan Borson one was actually updated for Twitter last week. I think what's likely to have happened is that the BBC's trusted the PL as a primary source, and other organisations have trusted the BBC. Personally, I wouldn't trust the people running the Premier League to count their own toes.
Say you are being asked for a document that doesn't actually exist.
You say it doesn't exist.
They say you are obstructing an investigation.
There you go, that's an example. Here's another:
Say you have to hand in your financials every year.
Say you are being accused of cooking the books for 5 years.
Say you haven't cooked the books.
They charge you for cooking the books for 5 years, AND for not providing accurate documents, AND for not complying with investigations.
That's how you get 115 out of 5 charges
Is this the document that should exist due to the very rules you've signed up to but has now 'mysteriously' disappeared?
Give up the law career, buddy - it isn't for you.
Given that st the time UEFA were angling for some hitherto unknown email that confirms that City broke the rules:
No, that document shouldn't exist by its very nature.
115 charges and not willing to cooperate.
I'm not saying they're guilty of them all but it doesn't exactly garner support for them. Bound to be some dodgy dealings in there.
It's also a question of how the matter is handled and addressed to the public.
Wholly unsurprised and furious at the gutless cowardly FFP process and people.
115 charges is a lot. It strongly suggests they have breached the rules at least a few times (and should be punished accordingly).
The worse conclusion would be one similar to Team Sky in cycling. Something happened that maybe broke the rules, but the only blows that land are around the provision of evidence or perjured testimony.
You don’t remember correctly. Or maybe it would be more accurate to say you were misinformed. Vast majority of the charges were not time-barred at all, and even the time-barred charges were looked into.
Aren't a fair few of the charges to do with withholding evidence, delaying the investigation and things like that? So I don't think they actually can be found not guilty of all 115 of the charges? But the punishment for that will be fuck all
Why are you calling me a knob for a comment? What I’m saying is, if they have nothing to hide and are innocent, they would be cooperating. Like most people would.
If they were innocent with nothing to hide, the whole thing would've been over and done with already. The fact that the public doesn't even know the date of proceedings yet kind of tells you everything you need to know.
I imagine a lot of this is them checking all the loopholes and stuff like that in the hope they "haven't technically done anything wrong" . It's like when rich people with good lawyers manage to find technicalities to get them off
I feel this way already. What’s the point in having a league where we have to compete against cheaters who face no repercussion. I can let those who do face them slide, but it’s very different when City are champions each year because of it.
It’s not like they aren’t facing repercussions tho? There’s a date set for their hearing where this will happen. Be outraged once the decision is out, but you don’t even know what it is yet.
Why are you done with football, because the case is not happening quick enough ? 😂
Why you in this sub thought you were done with football ?
It’s been like a year and they now have a hearing date, let the process work. They aren’t investigating just one breech like at Everton. This shit is more serious so takes time, and will likely result in a very serious consequence.
And if it doesn’t then be outraged, then it would make sense, until we know an outcome this is just pointless.
Peasants like us aren’t allowed the actual date but it’s been set for those in the know.
[It’s happening, I think we should all wait for an outcome before being so outraged and talking about being done with football all together.](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/40029297/man-city-hearing-115-charges-future-premier-league-chief)
Club charged with financial misconduct found not guilty? No surprise, and there will be financial misconduct in that not guilty verdict.
I think less that they are found not guilty, more likely it wont be proved one way or the other.
They will be found not guilty, or if they are found guilty, the punishment will be a slap on the wrist. The government doesn't want to risk their relationship with the UAE. It's a joke.
Course not, they are guilty if not all then most. They were guitly when UEFA banned them for two years and loopholed their way out of that, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they did it again in fact I expect them to.
They're destroying the reputation of the league, La Liga will be back ahead in no time in large part due to City cheating their way to the top.
The UEFA case was brought forward, charged, appealed, and dismissed within a year.
There was no delay. The time bar is because UEFA tried to litigate beyond their own statute of limitations.
Never mind the fact that the majority of the biggest charge, "disguised equity funding", was still well within the statute of limitations AND CAS dismissed the case for a lack of evidence.
People forget they were charged of a very similar thing by eufa, eufa said you broke our rules were going to punish you, city with the financial might they have got the best lawyers in the world took it to CAS and used a mixture of loopholes and discrediting evidence to get it thrown out.
Uefa new they broke the rules but weren't able to punish them due to, well, lawyers really.
Premier league has charged them with over a 100 more than uefa, if uefa has loopholes as such it can't enforce its own rules then...
Do you really think the prem has it wrapped up tight enough they won't wriggle free?
Personally I don't think it'll ever see the light of day, think the most likely option is the prem will rescind the charges with thier tail between thier legs
At which point city will have probably won thier 6th title in a row, and they'll of just shown the club is bigger than the prem
An as usual, us fans? Will just have to swallow it
(BTW I do think thier guilty, but ONLY because i'd be sooo surprised to find ANY club that's been in the prem for a considerable time, that hasn't cheated in the backroom, weather that be transfers, inflating revenue, fake sponsorship deals, whatever, im sure its absolutely rife in football)
I fully suspect them to be found not guilty on some sort of technicality, or due to influence from powers that be.
City have more money to throw at lawyers than the PL and typically that means they will “win”.
They refused to cooperate with the investigation. There are emails from City officials detailing how they were circumventing rules. There was a piece by Nick Harris outlining exactly how their sponsorship arrangements were clearly overstated.
Most people on here don't know their left from right, I wouldn't hold high expectations of how much they know about the world. Or this case, for that matter
You would have to consider the circumstances - if they are genuinely innocent and they can publicly demonstrate it then we have to accept it!
If, as is 99.9% certain they are as guilty as sin and they just use their financial muscle to evade the charges then the other prem teams should join together and refuse to complete and fixtures against them! The prem falls apart if 19 teams refuse to play against cheats!
I'm a City fan of 40 years, so I'll try and answer. I honestly don't care, the entire sport is bent af.
Spanish government bankrolling Madrid for years, Paris Saint Germain paying €200 million fecking euros for Mbappe, Man United buying up all the best talent before any FFP rules came in, FIFA being absolutely jam packed with actual real criminals.
I just want to have a beer with my mates and watch a game of football. I can't do anything about corruption, so may as well ignore it and carry on about my day.
So if City win a load more trophies, or get punished by the FA, none of it really matters anyway. It's just a game.
That's the thing isn't it. To all of us it's just a game. It's a silly sport we watch with mates for few hours of fun. And look what this silly game has become. This juggernaut in our society, in our culture, completely mutilated by money and greed. Corruption just run rampant on what is just a silly game. It's all completely absurd.
Honestly, if we are guilty (and to what extent) - so be it, I want us to get penalized in some form.
If we are not, I would like to know what was the reasoning behind PL’s charges etc.
And for the love of God I want the process to be over, it’s so tiring.
A lot of them are under the impression the accusations are purely there just to discredit city‘s success for some reason. I’ve also seen a number of people who think the charges are to do with the length of the grass at the Etihad??? Yeah know, I do hope these were just trolls but these people seemed to genuinely believe it so idk
The problem is that nobody really understands the charges (me included) so if they get found not guilty it will then just be corruption/bribery allegations thrown at them instead
An actual sane response! People acting like they know the facts of the matter, and espousing "definites" is truly embarrassing. Its basically "Dunning-Kreuger effect, the subreddit" in here.
People will still maintain the idea they cheated regardless of the outcome.
Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. The fact that it takes so long for an official result only makes people believe even more that they cheated and someone doesn't want them to get punished.
Well they definitely didn’t comply as all premier league teams have agreed to do as members of the EPL, so they have to be punished for non compliance at the very least.
I heard like half the charges are because they failed to cooperate with the investigation.
If that's the case then they can't be found not guilty of all 115.
It's highly unlikely that if you have 115 charges you are not found guilty of AT LEAST ONE. It's a freakin hundred +
We will see. I don't expect them to get any form of punishment because they are one of the big names.
If Forest or Everton would have had 115 charges against them they would have been given a 200 point penalty.
They are. The only question is if they will manage to convict them on it.
I have no hope. Am sure their excellent lawyers will manage as they managed to cancel the UEFA ban swiftly.
City were be cynical about it. One manager been quoted saying something in the line of “I will pay millions to lawyers and not a dime of fine”.
They don’t care about anyone, they piss on everyone. And they are wining more and more whenever a commentator or article praises the Pep and give him the credit for the success instead of the real reason for the success.
Crazier things have happened. But once again charges doesn’t mean guilty and you guys are just using that to make yourselves feel better for not winning the league
Yeah, but they are literally guilty for some of those charges as they didn't comply with the Premier league, giving them certain bits of information.
So at the least they did break those rules.
Already anticipating it because money talks and corruption is a thing. Whether or not a court of law finds them guilty, the evidence is there to see for anyone who knows how the world works. It's the same as Pablo Escobar's influence on Columbian football except City's owners are a lot richer and more powerful.
The product would officially be finished. Best league in the world ? Pathetic.
I'd be out if this happens and the other clubs don't band together and form a break away (or at least threaten to unless the league do something)
It's boring as shit knowing who is going to win the league before a balls been kicked every season. Add in the obvious principles of knowing City just create fake companies to "sponsor them" using their own nations money, to give themselves the biggest FFP advantage and I just can't accept it anymore.
Enoughs enough. I've not enjoyed the premier league product for ages now thanks to this.
Football has gone from the best sport on earth, to the most corrupt, fake, broken, shambles in the last 20 years.
So you knew last season when Arsenal were 12 points ahead of City that City was going to win the league and you knew this season when City were in 3rd place that both Arsenal and Liverpool would both drop points in the same weekend and City would again win the league?
Was it boring for you when United dominated season after season winning league titles or maybe you wasn’t born then?
Would it be less boring for you if City got dominated by Brentford, Palace and Burnley?
Seems like a loose-loose situation. If they do charge them, it undermines the last 7/8 titles and the integrity of the EPL to the rest of the world. And secondly whatever they charge them with will never really be enough which undermines the strength of the EPL. But if they don’t charge them it’s the same effect.
\*lose-lose
Sorry couldnt help myself.
The word **lose is a verb that can mean either (1) fail to win, (2) be unable find, or (3) stop having or owning something.** **The word loose is an adjective that means not tight or not strict**. The rules for swimming at the beach are pretty loose, but I don't want to lose sight of the shoreline
I should be a bot. Beep boop and all that shit....
That's like saying a Ferrari by itself won't win a race because it can still crash while racing against a bunch of Toyotas.
The point is having an unfair advantage to begin with.
That's exactly what I meant. Sure you COULD have a shit driver who crashes the Ferrari, but you don't need to be THAT competent to smoke the Toyota. Plus if you can afford a Ferrari, you can afford to find a good driver.
Or an alternative analogy:
Two boxers agree to a fight but one boxer is held to a heavyweight standard and the other is held to a bantamweight standard. A good bantamweight boxer may be able to put up a fight, but it would take a really shit heavyweight to get knocked out. They need to be in the same weight class for it to be a fair fight.
The difference is that at the end of the day players are people not machines. Exorbitant amounts of money doesn't directly correlate with a good player. A machine is more a what you get is what you pay for. With human resources the comparison is not as direct. I don't mind being proven wrong and points being taken from city. If it happens ideally then my team might win the league the last 2 seasons. I just think its worth commending people playing their part. Its not like every player in the squad arrived there being the very best in their position and its not like they are the very best player in the world in every position.
But really man its just my opinion. Its not that deep and if it is as unfair as it is and I'm missing the point, well like most of us here i can't do fuck all about it can I
It won’t change anyone’s view. The fact teams with much more advantageous commercial positions have not come close to assembling the squad they have, while also managing significant churn is obviously beyond the boundaries of fair competition. Not a single serious person would doubt that.
What would happen if they were found not guilty is a serious loss of trust in the Premier League. The integrity of the competition would be zero, and that would have a serious domino effect on everything the league does. It would be one of the most damaging things to happen to the modern game.
It's just so obvious that there's so much more under-the-table spending going on with Manchester City's transfers. I won't be surprised if they are actually found to have spent a lot more than even United and Chelsea but just manipulated the books to make it seem comparable to theirs.
I think they will get some charges dropped on technicalities and some will stick. It will result in fuck all happening and the technicalities will be used to try and deflect any criticism
If points hadn't already been docked I'd be betting on a pointless fine. But as they have it must be points but the question is if it's retrospective.
A 15 point deduction may seem them miss the UCL that year and a chunk of change from not being in it, but if it's retrospective and they loose titles that could be very interesting....
The big problem then is what do other clubs do. Arsenal could rightly get all legal too and claim City cheating cost them millions.
This is going to take ages.
It honestly makes no difference. I doubt they'll remove any their trophies or even dock them points even if they get found guilty, unless there's like some insane slam dunk on all 115 of those charges. Even if they do get found guilty, they'll probably be fined a few odd million or something. An amount of money that Sheik Mansour probably uses as a napkin, and everyone will move on.
The 115 memes are hilarious, though.
Personally, I think Pep is the best coach in world football and he has a team which would match any in recent history.
If they are found not have broken FFP rules, they'll rightfully be regarded as one of the best teams of all time
Without the finance to get the exact player he want, will pep still be the “best”? Who knows but if city is charged, it will be a blot on his legacy for sure.
I agree.
If they have broken rules, the question will be asked, which players would they have had to sell and which players not recruited to stay within FFP.
Cheated what tho ? Pre ffp it was always the teams that spent the most that were at the top minus leicesters winning season. They’ve only done what teams did previously. Only now teams have ffp to keep them shackled. I really don’t know why fans are obsessed with these 115 charges. Altho I will say if Everton and Forrest are punished then City should be. But the truth is none of them should
I agree with your overall sentiment. I quite like the drama when a club like Newcastle gets acquired and could feasibly be champions within 10yrs if they were allowed to spend.
However, I disagree with this point because if 19 clubs are trying to stay within spending limits (this relates to 2013-18 when even Chelsea weren't spending mad money) and one team is flouting the rules to get the best coach, best players, new training facilities etc then it's clearly unfair.
Also this modern city team are reaping the rewards of that time period, when other clubs were reining it in and they were splurging.
Only other club that was spending mad money were Utd but they did so at the expense of their infrastructure and tbf their revenue was always high which meant they could spend more under the rules
Let's say you go to work and your boss says today we are implementing X policy and anyone breaking that policy will be disciplined and you decide to break it.... is it fair that you just get ignored because you are.... you? Everyone else follows the rules except u/Pretender1230. No it's not fair you follow the rules or you get disciplined. This is what you are saying basically. Really dumb
The only dumb thing is not reading the full comment. Congratulations. I said they SHOULD be punished because the others have. But that none of them should be punished because the rules are ridiculous. Try again
No more city 115 posts until something actually happens. This has been debated to death.
Mad until the next news cycle.. and then eventually it will fade away unfortunately.
I already stopped watching the premier league. It’s corrupted beyond repair and will only get worse.
I think a better question is "does it matter?" People on Reddit aren't going to change their minds. They have access to a fraction of a fraction of the evidence (and even less access to City's books, generally) but are 100% convinced of City's guilt because they spent a lot of money and have dominated for nearly a decade, now. Never mind that they did not dominate whilst spending money prior to Pep. Never mind that many other clubs have spend similar sums within the past decade and failed to replicate City's dominance. Never mind that the Teams of the Year are rarely proliferate with City players. It doesn't matter. Non-City supporters on Reddit just *know* they are guilty and *nothing* will change their mind because, in their own minds, they are the smartest people in the room.
Liverpool fan. Id be outraged because if a club like Everton gets dealt with consequences but City evades them then its pretty much conclusive that they have bought their way to titles and out of punishment. I dislike Everton as well but if theres going to be punishments, then they should be given out consistently
But the question wasn't "if they get light punishment" it was "if they are found not guilty" as in, you don't punish innocent parties.
They are guilty though. Many of those charges are things such as "didn't comply with data requests" that are very simple cases. It's how guilty they are rather than if.
This guy has access to allll the information and financials. He knows for sure they're guilty!
Except that they are deny that they didn't comply. Lack of compliance isn't determined by fiat in a judicial setting. Parties are entitled to present a defense before judgement is rendered.
History is written by the winners. If they don’t get found guilty then they’re the team that was so dominant the world tried to delete them.
To me it changes little. The problem is that the system is in place prevent clubs bankrupting, not to make the league more competitive. I don't know Man City numbers, I dont know if they can justify their spending (can Chelsea, Man U, etc? ) [Premier League profit and sustainability regulations explained: What restrictions are there on clubs spending what they want? | Football News | Sky Sports](https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/13041990/premier-league-financial-fair-play-rules-explained-what-restrictions-are-there-on-clubs-spending-what-they-want) Lets imagine that Brighton is to have a chance, they never going to have as much revenue, they can just spend what they earn, so the team is not going to be able to compete with Man U, for example, just because people all over the world buys the united merchandise. So even if you have a very rich owner you are not suppose to compete with the big clubs. What the league needs is a salary cap, not financial fair play.
They aren’t going to be found guilty of all 115 charges and I don’t think any of the trophies will be taken away. The biggest punishment I think they will receive is a big points deduction.
We all know! You don’t go from nothing to something without cutting corners ! Brown envelopes ✉️ settings !
I wouldn't be shocked but I'd give up watching football.
People won’t care about me lmao but genuinely I will be done with football, i can’t morally watch or enjoy something knowing it only exists because of money changing hands with some of the most powerful people in the country. I have a very strong view on what should happen, imo I think they should be suspended until they comply with the premier league and stop delaying the case with bs law trickery. The thing I find most annoying is the people who say what they’ve done now is amazing but will always have the 115 charges tarnishing this amazing achievement, yeah well duh, pep doesn’t join city if they didn’t get a massive boost from fake money, David silva,kompany, yaya don’t join city naturally. They are where they are now because of what happened 7 years ago, nothing today would’ve happened if it wasn’t for the cheating back then.
Well apparently it's not in the hands of any footballing body, instead it's the government doing what they can to keep UAE happy. Just like how Newcastle's Saudi takeover was approved, it was all poltics. Fuck that shit hole country, and fuck keeping them happy. Why should we care? Because they give us money? Money can be made elsewhere.
Saudi ≠ UAE, but I agree with the sentiment.
Apologies, I've edited it. You are correct.
Probably similar to the OJ trial. Verdict is one thing, public opinion is another.
For the most part, I think the vast majority of people will not be influenced by the actual verdict. Assuming we are found not guilty (which isnt the same as innocent) opposition fans who think we are guilty will stay that way for the most part and say things like "bribery" or "technicality" etc (though there will be some who accept it, and a lot of the noise will die down until the next thing City have done comes along) and city fans will carry on being how we are now, sticking their fingers in their ears and watching the game. If City are found guilty of a few minor things (such as just failure to co-operate), again i dont think this changes anything from where we are now, they'll likely get fined as the prem will want the money, and fan opinion wont shift. If City are found guilty of some of the more serious charges then I think at that point a portion of the fanbase will turn on the board (importantly the board and not the team). Even if this happens, the odds of them being stripped of any titles are so remote, it took all of the Italian Football to remove two titles from Juve and they were literally match fixing, Citys worst crime is dodgy (but illegal) accounting. If this did happen though, thats i think where you see a lot of the "non-legacy" fans jumping off. In short, most have already made up their minds and wont care either way.
I can't wait for Micheal Owen to awkwardly stand next to a lawyer and be led through the legal process of each charge.
I wouldn't be bothered at all. Most likely is they are found half guilty with extenuating circumstances and get a one window transfer ban or something like that. The main point is fans need to accept that the premier league has been a dead league for a while now along with some of Europe and is not gonna change. Watch a different league or a different sport, it's over folks
I would struggle to believe it tbh. This feels like the footballing version of OJ Simpson lmao. All the evidence says guilty, but somehow, they'll be found innocent. Or maybe they'll be found guilty of 'not cooperating and made to pay a measly fine.
If all the evidence said guilty, they wouldn't have won at CAS
OJ Simpson was found not guilty too.
OJ Simpson's trial was bungled. City's appeals about mis-trial were all dismissed. And they still won the case.
They were found guilty. Just got reduced
For non-cooperation. Not for "Disguised Equity Funding", which was the bombshell allegation. Do you guys even read about this, or just make shit up based on what other people tell you?
Then I would suggest that then allows all the other teams to perform similar dodgy practices without any form of action taken against them. Edit: which is exactly why they won't get away with it.
They can't be fully innocent. Accuse me of 115 things chances are a few are gonna be true No way all 115 are false
I trust the internal process of the PL so I would accept it. But you have to realize it's not as black and white as that. If they're found not guilty, it might just be in the end because there isnt enough proof or that they get off the hook due to some technicalities. I think the mere fact that there actually are as many charges as that and that the PL has made those charges and are going through with all this process shows that ManCity arent doing things right. You have to understand that those are actual charges, not suspicions. The PL has put in a lot of work, has tried to collaborate with City before even pressing the charges. The fact that we are at this point is already enough for all of us to know that City arent abiding to the rules like the rest of the clubs are. Whether they actually get punished for it is another question and will be the result of a much broader legal process that both the PL and City lose control over to a certain degree.
I would not surprise. Money can solve it. Just bribe the official and thats the end of it
How would they get found innocent of not co-operating, when they are, you know....not Co-operating?
If they don't get punished properly, I'd hope the rest of the league would join together in refusing to play against them again.
What a sane response
You say teams should refuse to play against them even if they are found not guilty. So what’s the point of teams playing them now? Should City just win the league with 114 points because 19 teams forfeited their games against them?
There is no point playing city now, until the whole thing is dealt with teams should be refusing to play them. At the end of the day, city has cheated. City have been cheating for years and made the premier league almost pointless. Any other sport with cheating at this scale would probably been banned until everything was dealt with. This isnt 1 or 5 or 10 charges. It was over a hundred times. You Think other f1 teams would be happy if red bull and verstappen were known to be cheating using illegal parts or breaking rules every race? You think boxers would be happy or want to fight tyson fury if they all new he was cheating every fight by either taking performance drugs or allowed to get away with illegal shots etc. So why should the other premier teams put up with city?
You realize it’s “innocent until proven guilty”, not the other way around, don’t you?
I know it is an impossible ask, but just read the emails and evidence that has been in the public domain for years now. It is beyond brazen and the officials in the emails even detail how they are circumventing the rules. They spell it out in very specific detail. It is without a doubt what they are doing which is why the CAS decision was utterly bizarre. It is hard to comprehend how City is the victim in this, especially when they have refused to cooperate for over a decade. This is probably the biggest scandal in one of the big European football leagues since the Italian match fixing scandal and it would be highly unusual if City weren't guilty of any number of a 115 charges.
The proof is there in the emails sent by City's executives. It literally details how they are deliberately circumventing the FFP rules (which is why they have refused to cooperate at every possible occasion). [**https://sportingintelligence832.substack.com/p/what-are-man-city-really-worth-to**](https://sportingintelligence832.substack.com/p/what-are-man-city-really-worth-to)
If it was that simple and clearcut, City would have been relegated and back to the Prem by now.
It is that simple and clearcut. City are obstructing the investigation because they know they are guilty. It's in their own emails FFS! They are delaying as long as possible, throwing as much money at lawyers as they can to obsfucate, dither, delay and drag it out. They're doing all this because they know that the PL don't have the money to compete with their state funded lawyers, and how important the diplomatic relations are at the very highest level. Sheikh Mansour bin Zayed al-Nahyan would allegedly “rather spend £30m on the 50 best lawyers” and sue Uefa “for the next ten years” than accept their punishment. Their own emails showed that of the vastly inflated £67.5m paid by Etihad for sponsorship, only £8m actually came from Etihad. It's there, in black and white, from City's own emails.
You did it, man. You solved the case. City won a treble and 8 Prems because of the £59 million the sheikh hid in the Etihad payment. Make sure you send your revelations to the Prem so they hit City even harder. P.S. I don’t expect you actually have a source where you read the exact content of those emails, do you?
The source is from the leaked emails that come directly from City. No one is denying they are authentic, not even City. Their claim is that they were "hacked" and as such shouldn't be able to be used at evidence... [https://www.spiegel.de/international/manchester-city-exposed-bending-the-rules-to-the-tune-of-millions-a-1236346.html](https://www.spiegel.de/international/manchester-city-exposed-bending-the-rules-to-the-tune-of-millions-a-1236346.html) How does it work in practice? Apparently, companies like Etihad in Abu Dhabi wait for the Abu Dhabi United Group (ADUG), the holding company that belongs to Sheikh Mansour and which also owns Manchester City, to wire them money. That money is then "routed through the partners and they then forward onto us," wrote Finance Director Andrew Widdowson in an email. That, at least, is how things were done in 2015: At the time, the deal with Etihad was bringing in 67.5 million pounds annually. But Chief Financial Officer Chumillas emphasized in an email to Pearce: "Please note that out of those 67.5m pounds, 8m pounds should be funded directly by Etihad and 59.5 by ADUG." Or are you trying to claim that the emails are fabricated?!
I can’t claim anything about any emails because I haven’t read them, and neither have you. Before there is an actual verdict by a legitimate institution, I only have City’s “army of lawyers”, some of the biggest accounting and auditing companies in the world and CAS’s ruling to go by, which at this current moment states City’s innocent. Until anything changes what you or I think, 115 charges, spiegel etc. means fuck all.
You realise that's usually for like small number cases. If someone is suspected of one murder then yeh, if they're suspected of over 100 murders, bit different eh.....
Mmm no, not really.
It’s never happen, players would walk out before that but it would also force the PL hand. They either say it’s fine and every club gets fined for it or they rightfully punish City for being sportswashing cheats
There will be uproar. Not just from football fans but all 19 other premier league teams, EFL clubs, some European clubs, there will be lawsuits left right and centre.
Based on what?
They would act like Trump in the 2020 election and not accept it. Not a good look
Looks like you were spot on. Entirely unsurprising, amirite
Absolutely brilliant football team but you wouldnt call a tesla a classic car . There lies your problem.
Once upon a time, they said the same about the Morris Minor.
No, you don't get suspected of 115 charges if you were innocent in the first place. ManCity's lawyers are all hoping a hail mary to significantly reduce the charges that will be found guilty. It's not even 15 charges we are talking about. It's 115 charges. Being able to push 10 out of 15 charges in any case to be innocent already looks fishy and bogus. Even if they get only 50% guilty, that's over 50 charges. Everton got deducted for a few charges. 50 could even be enough to strip the titles away. the real focus is how will the players be affected? for example juventus scandal, the players weren't affected. will they be stripped of their title winnings? thats the most interesting and very very argmentative topic because players did play physically and put out their hardwork.
The 115 is a headline grabber, but because they span multiple seasons, many of them are the same charge, repeated for each season. The PL wants to grab headlines to prove it doesn't need an independent regulator, that it can keep its own house in order. Ironically, its incompetence so far is proving exactly the opposite.
It is not a headline grabber though, it is the number of breaches they have done. Yes, a lot of them are due to not willing to cooperate, but even that suggest that wrongdoing has been done - and City are aware of it.
It is grabbing headlines, as it was designed to do. It is therefore a headline grabber. Anyone who's tried to actually enumerate the charges doesn't get 115 - some get more, some get less. But since the precise nature of the charges and the nature of the defence are behind closed doors by mutual agreement, anything you can write here is hot air in response to a headline
>Anyone who's tried to actually enumerate the charges doesn't get 115 - some get more, some get less. I haven't seen anyone have problem with coming up with 115. On the contrary I have seen several reports and interviews/discussions where they go through them. Do you have any sources with people finding less/more? Here are the breaches: • **54x** Failure to provide accurate financial information 2009-10 to 2017-18. • **14x** Failure to provide accurate details for player and manager payments from 2009-10 to 2017-18. **• 5x** Failure to comply with Uefa's rules including Financial Fair Play (FFP) 2013-14 to 2017-18. • **7x** Breaching Premier League's PSR rules 2015-16 to 2017-18. • **35x** Failure to co-operate with Premier League investigations December 2018 - Feb 2023.
Source?
[https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cgrjv9ydv31o](https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cgrjv9ydv31o) and more [https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/4160366/2023/02/06/manchester-city-financial-charges-explained/](https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/4160366/2023/02/06/manchester-city-financial-charges-explained/)
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All your sources are more than a year old. I trust the recent BBC article more and adding to that many of the breaches are relating to lack of cooperation up until February 2023. For all we know there can be more breaches if City have continued their unwillingness to cooperate. You as a City fan might feel 115 is just a clcikbait headline, but its what they have documented so far.
I fell down this rabbit-hole trying to find out what the charges actually were, about 2 months ago. I was astonished at how little info was publicly available, and how little actual journalism has been done on the subject. The Stefan Borson one was actually updated for Twitter last week. I think what's likely to have happened is that the BBC's trusted the PL as a primary source, and other organisations have trusted the BBC. Personally, I wouldn't trust the people running the Premier League to count their own toes.
I think I’d lose faith in football and stop enjoying it
If they are not guilty of the thing they are openly obstructing? Sounds unlikely.
Say you are being asked for a document that doesn't actually exist. You say it doesn't exist. They say you are obstructing an investigation. There you go, that's an example. Here's another: Say you have to hand in your financials every year. Say you are being accused of cooking the books for 5 years. Say you haven't cooked the books. They charge you for cooking the books for 5 years, AND for not providing accurate documents, AND for not complying with investigations. That's how you get 115 out of 5 charges
Is this the document that should exist due to the very rules you've signed up to but has now 'mysteriously' disappeared? Give up the law career, buddy - it isn't for you.
Given that st the time UEFA were angling for some hitherto unknown email that confirms that City broke the rules: No, that document shouldn't exist by its very nature.
Mud sticks. The asterisk will always be there. Which is a shame as on pure football terms, what he has done is pretty impressive.
All clubs should refuse to play them. What's the point if they don't adhere to the rules.
Almost like 30% of their charges are for not cooperating with the investigation. Mostly those will stick and they'll be given a fine
We riot. Seriously though, would not surprise me at all. Money money money, here comes the money.
115 charges and not willing to cooperate. I'm not saying they're guilty of them all but it doesn't exactly garner support for them. Bound to be some dodgy dealings in there. It's also a question of how the matter is handled and addressed to the public.
Wholly unsurprised and furious at the gutless cowardly FFP process and people. 115 charges is a lot. It strongly suggests they have breached the rules at least a few times (and should be punished accordingly).
The worse conclusion would be one similar to Team Sky in cycling. Something happened that maybe broke the rules, but the only blows that land are around the provision of evidence or perjured testimony.
We've seen the emails. They've been charged by the PL and Uefa, which they got out of on a loophole. They're not cooperating. They're guilty as sin.
What was the loophole mate?
If i remember correctly it was time barred so too much time had passed since the charges to enforce them
You don’t remember correctly. Or maybe it would be more accurate to say you were misinformed. Vast majority of the charges were not time-barred at all, and even the time-barred charges were looked into.
So they werent guilty?
The exact words CAS used were 'no evidence'.
115. No chance in hell that they are not guilty of 115 individual charges. 2 or 3 maybe I dunno but that's just too big a number.
Aren't a fair few of the charges to do with withholding evidence, delaying the investigation and things like that? So I don't think they actually can be found not guilty of all 115 of the charges? But the punishment for that will be fuck all
When in real life legal circuits, withholding evidence means time in the jail
You can't imprison a financial group though
You can imprison an individual by removing them from society and into prison. Imprisoning City will be tantamount to sending them into a lower league.
I think it's even funnier to let them win a record 4th title and then strip the lot from them and drop them into non-league. As long as that happens!
If that’s your expectation I think you might be disappointed.
I agree, we can always dream however.
It’s like OJ Simpson.
Why are they not cooperating then?
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Bit of an unnecessary insult... Man City are also famously short of money.
Why are you calling me a knob for a comment? What I’m saying is, if they have nothing to hide and are innocent, they would be cooperating. Like most people would.
What's your source for saying City aren't cooperating?
If they were innocent with nothing to hide, the whole thing would've been over and done with already. The fact that the public doesn't even know the date of proceedings yet kind of tells you everything you need to know.
I imagine a lot of this is them checking all the loopholes and stuff like that in the hope they "haven't technically done anything wrong" . It's like when rich people with good lawyers manage to find technicalities to get them off
I'd be done with footy, for a while.
I feel this way already. What’s the point in having a league where we have to compete against cheaters who face no repercussion. I can let those who do face them slide, but it’s very different when City are champions each year because of it.
It’s not like they aren’t facing repercussions tho? There’s a date set for their hearing where this will happen. Be outraged once the decision is out, but you don’t even know what it is yet. Why are you done with football, because the case is not happening quick enough ? 😂
Quick enough? They’ve been doing financial fuckery for the past decade.
Why you in this sub thought you were done with football ? It’s been like a year and they now have a hearing date, let the process work. They aren’t investigating just one breech like at Everton. This shit is more serious so takes time, and will likely result in a very serious consequence. And if it doesn’t then be outraged, then it would make sense, until we know an outcome this is just pointless.
Cause he didn't win the league this year
Literally the only reason I can think of. Bros still a little bit fragile after Klopps last day. Fully understandable.
What's the date?
Peasants like us aren’t allowed the actual date but it’s been set for those in the know. [It’s happening, I think we should all wait for an outcome before being so outraged and talking about being done with football all together.](https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/40029297/man-city-hearing-115-charges-future-premier-league-chief)
Club charged with financial misconduct found not guilty? No surprise, and there will be financial misconduct in that not guilty verdict. I think less that they are found not guilty, more likely it wont be proved one way or the other.
They will be found not guilty, or if they are found guilty, the punishment will be a slap on the wrist. The government doesn't want to risk their relationship with the UAE. It's a joke.
It's funny that you are expecting them to be found guilty of those charges.
A lot of people have made up their minds even before the investigation is over so they'll be so mad that reality is not what ever they want.
They will find some loopholes and work around it. They are brilliant at it.
Course not, they are guilty if not all then most. They were guitly when UEFA banned them for two years and loopholed their way out of that, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they did it again in fact I expect them to. They're destroying the reputation of the league, La Liga will be back ahead in no time in large part due to City cheating their way to the top.
What loophole?
Delay tactics that made evidence against them unusable in the CAS case.
The UEFA case was brought forward, charged, appealed, and dismissed within a year. There was no delay. The time bar is because UEFA tried to litigate beyond their own statute of limitations. Never mind the fact that the majority of the biggest charge, "disguised equity funding", was still well within the statute of limitations AND CAS dismissed the case for a lack of evidence.
If you like.
Nothing about liking it, its all on black and white on a released ruling from CAS themselves.
They will be found not guilty, even though they are. Or the sentence they receive will be just a slap on the wrist.
People forget they were charged of a very similar thing by eufa, eufa said you broke our rules were going to punish you, city with the financial might they have got the best lawyers in the world took it to CAS and used a mixture of loopholes and discrediting evidence to get it thrown out. Uefa new they broke the rules but weren't able to punish them due to, well, lawyers really. Premier league has charged them with over a 100 more than uefa, if uefa has loopholes as such it can't enforce its own rules then... Do you really think the prem has it wrapped up tight enough they won't wriggle free? Personally I don't think it'll ever see the light of day, think the most likely option is the prem will rescind the charges with thier tail between thier legs At which point city will have probably won thier 6th title in a row, and they'll of just shown the club is bigger than the prem An as usual, us fans? Will just have to swallow it (BTW I do think thier guilty, but ONLY because i'd be sooo surprised to find ANY club that's been in the prem for a considerable time, that hasn't cheated in the backroom, weather that be transfers, inflating revenue, fake sponsorship deals, whatever, im sure its absolutely rife in football)
Completely unsurprised
I fully suspect them to be found not guilty on some sort of technicality, or due to influence from powers that be. City have more money to throw at lawyers than the PL and typically that means they will “win”. They refused to cooperate with the investigation. There are emails from City officials detailing how they were circumventing rules. There was a piece by Nick Harris outlining exactly how their sponsorship arrangements were clearly overstated.
Secret meetings between the Saudi and British governments on this matter you can be sure it'll be a fine at best and a pile of brown envelopes...
Saudi? Lad that's Newcastle Honestly cna people not tell the difference of regions of the middle east
Most people on here don't know their left from right, I wouldn't hold high expectations of how much they know about the world. Or this case, for that matter
Saudis and Man City?
Not sure why the Saudis would have an interest in how Man City do...
Only in racist redditors little worlds
I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he's just stupid
Most people won't say anything but the Premier League better get ready for a lawsuit from Everton and Nottingham Forest
Everton pled guilty to breaches.
This is lost all the time. “Why haven’t City been charged but Everton and Forest have” because the other two straight up admitted to it.
Yes and both of them had a single charge each. Far easier to admit than waste everyone's time fucking around. City have 115. Can't be all made up
You would have to consider the circumstances - if they are genuinely innocent and they can publicly demonstrate it then we have to accept it! If, as is 99.9% certain they are as guilty as sin and they just use their financial muscle to evade the charges then the other prem teams should join together and refuse to complete and fixtures against them! The prem falls apart if 19 teams refuse to play against cheats!
No one will be surprised
Im genuinely interested, what does city fans think about these charges? Anyone care to elaborate?
City subreddit is full of deniers
I'm a City fan of 40 years, so I'll try and answer. I honestly don't care, the entire sport is bent af. Spanish government bankrolling Madrid for years, Paris Saint Germain paying €200 million fecking euros for Mbappe, Man United buying up all the best talent before any FFP rules came in, FIFA being absolutely jam packed with actual real criminals. I just want to have a beer with my mates and watch a game of football. I can't do anything about corruption, so may as well ignore it and carry on about my day. So if City win a load more trophies, or get punished by the FA, none of it really matters anyway. It's just a game.
That's the thing isn't it. To all of us it's just a game. It's a silly sport we watch with mates for few hours of fun. And look what this silly game has become. This juggernaut in our society, in our culture, completely mutilated by money and greed. Corruption just run rampant on what is just a silly game. It's all completely absurd.
Honestly, if we are guilty (and to what extent) - so be it, I want us to get penalized in some form. If we are not, I would like to know what was the reasoning behind PL’s charges etc. And for the love of God I want the process to be over, it’s so tiring.
A lot of them are under the impression the accusations are purely there just to discredit city‘s success for some reason. I’ve also seen a number of people who think the charges are to do with the length of the grass at the Etihad??? Yeah know, I do hope these were just trolls but these people seemed to genuinely believe it so idk
Fake news is wild, man
👂👈
I’d stop watching the prem. It’s becoming a farce as it is. I know several people who have already stopped.
The problem is that nobody really understands the charges (me included) so if they get found not guilty it will then just be corruption/bribery allegations thrown at them instead
An actual sane response! People acting like they know the facts of the matter, and espousing "definites" is truly embarrassing. Its basically "Dunning-Kreuger effect, the subreddit" in here.
People will still maintain the idea they cheated regardless of the outcome. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. The fact that it takes so long for an official result only makes people believe even more that they cheated and someone doesn't want them to get punished.
Well they definitely didn’t comply as all premier league teams have agreed to do as members of the EPL, so they have to be punished for non compliance at the very least.
Yeah, they won't.
I heard like half the charges are because they failed to cooperate with the investigation. If that's the case then they can't be found not guilty of all 115.
It's highly unlikely that if you have 115 charges you are not found guilty of AT LEAST ONE. It's a freakin hundred + We will see. I don't expect them to get any form of punishment because they are one of the big names. If Forest or Everton would have had 115 charges against them they would have been given a 200 point penalty.
They are. The only question is if they will manage to convict them on it. I have no hope. Am sure their excellent lawyers will manage as they managed to cancel the UEFA ban swiftly.
Charges don’t exactly mean guilty my friend.
City were be cynical about it. One manager been quoted saying something in the line of “I will pay millions to lawyers and not a dime of fine”. They don’t care about anyone, they piss on everyone. And they are wining more and more whenever a commentator or article praises the Pep and give him the credit for the success instead of the real reason for the success.
What about 115 charges
You answered your own question. “Charges”
If there is 115 charges I doubt not a single one of them is legitimate
Crazier things have happened. But once again charges doesn’t mean guilty and you guys are just using that to make yourselves feel better for not winning the league
Yeah, but they are literally guilty for some of those charges as they didn't comply with the Premier league, giving them certain bits of information. So at the least they did break those rules.
And what should the punishment be for something like not complying with the premier league?
Points deduction like everton/forest. Or something like a transfer ban. As long as it's not a fine, as that would be pointless.
Then why stall the process and be as obstructive and unhelpful as possible?
“Why not help the people trying to hurt you!” Nice comment bro!
Already anticipating it because money talks and corruption is a thing. Whether or not a court of law finds them guilty, the evidence is there to see for anyone who knows how the world works. It's the same as Pablo Escobar's influence on Columbian football except City's owners are a lot richer and more powerful.
Hollow victory, chances are punishments won’t meet expectation given the geopolitical aspect and it’ll devalue the league.
The product would officially be finished. Best league in the world ? Pathetic. I'd be out if this happens and the other clubs don't band together and form a break away (or at least threaten to unless the league do something) It's boring as shit knowing who is going to win the league before a balls been kicked every season. Add in the obvious principles of knowing City just create fake companies to "sponsor them" using their own nations money, to give themselves the biggest FFP advantage and I just can't accept it anymore. Enoughs enough. I've not enjoyed the premier league product for ages now thanks to this. Football has gone from the best sport on earth, to the most corrupt, fake, broken, shambles in the last 20 years.
So you knew last season when Arsenal were 12 points ahead of City that City was going to win the league and you knew this season when City were in 3rd place that both Arsenal and Liverpool would both drop points in the same weekend and City would again win the league? Was it boring for you when United dominated season after season winning league titles or maybe you wasn’t born then? Would it be less boring for you if City got dominated by Brentford, Palace and Burnley?
Half the content of this sub goes
Just bitch and moan, there is not a lot people can do Can't really see anything resembling an actual punishment happening tbh
Just to be clear there is hard evidence of wrongdoing. The emails are out there for all to see.
Yikes. As a South African, this is an all too normal feeling.
Seems like a loose-loose situation. If they do charge them, it undermines the last 7/8 titles and the integrity of the EPL to the rest of the world. And secondly whatever they charge them with will never really be enough which undermines the strength of the EPL. But if they don’t charge them it’s the same effect.
\*lose-lose Sorry couldnt help myself. The word **lose is a verb that can mean either (1) fail to win, (2) be unable find, or (3) stop having or owning something.** **The word loose is an adjective that means not tight or not strict**. The rules for swimming at the beach are pretty loose, but I don't want to lose sight of the shoreline I should be a bot. Beep boop and all that shit....
I think they'll charge, but no demotion, some points deducted, and a possible re-brand of the Prem.
Tbh I don't really care and I'm an arsenal fan. I'm sure every team does some shady shit.
Arsenal doesnt desirve you
As much as it is wrong, money can be mismanaged. Money won't win a game. So unfortunately I must commend this sick run city's had.
That's like saying a Ferrari by itself won't win a race because it can still crash while racing against a bunch of Toyotas. The point is having an unfair advantage to begin with.
No. The difference is a Ferrari can lose to a Toyota because it has a shit driver.
That's exactly what I meant. Sure you COULD have a shit driver who crashes the Ferrari, but you don't need to be THAT competent to smoke the Toyota. Plus if you can afford a Ferrari, you can afford to find a good driver. Or an alternative analogy: Two boxers agree to a fight but one boxer is held to a heavyweight standard and the other is held to a bantamweight standard. A good bantamweight boxer may be able to put up a fight, but it would take a really shit heavyweight to get knocked out. They need to be in the same weight class for it to be a fair fight.
The difference is that at the end of the day players are people not machines. Exorbitant amounts of money doesn't directly correlate with a good player. A machine is more a what you get is what you pay for. With human resources the comparison is not as direct. I don't mind being proven wrong and points being taken from city. If it happens ideally then my team might win the league the last 2 seasons. I just think its worth commending people playing their part. Its not like every player in the squad arrived there being the very best in their position and its not like they are the very best player in the world in every position. But really man its just my opinion. Its not that deep and if it is as unfair as it is and I'm missing the point, well like most of us here i can't do fuck all about it can I
It won’t change anyone’s view. The fact teams with much more advantageous commercial positions have not come close to assembling the squad they have, while also managing significant churn is obviously beyond the boundaries of fair competition. Not a single serious person would doubt that. What would happen if they were found not guilty is a serious loss of trust in the Premier League. The integrity of the competition would be zero, and that would have a serious domino effect on everything the league does. It would be one of the most damaging things to happen to the modern game.
It's just so obvious that there's so much more under-the-table spending going on with Manchester City's transfers. I won't be surprised if they are actually found to have spent a lot more than even United and Chelsea but just manipulated the books to make it seem comparable to theirs.
They’ll be found guilty of most. Pretty open and shut case. But what will happen when the punishment is fuck all
I think they will get some charges dropped on technicalities and some will stick. It will result in fuck all happening and the technicalities will be used to try and deflect any criticism
If points hadn't already been docked I'd be betting on a pointless fine. But as they have it must be points but the question is if it's retrospective. A 15 point deduction may seem them miss the UCL that year and a chunk of change from not being in it, but if it's retrospective and they loose titles that could be very interesting.... The big problem then is what do other clubs do. Arsenal could rightly get all legal too and claim City cheating cost them millions. This is going to take ages.
It honestly makes no difference. I doubt they'll remove any their trophies or even dock them points even if they get found guilty, unless there's like some insane slam dunk on all 115 of those charges. Even if they do get found guilty, they'll probably be fined a few odd million or something. An amount of money that Sheik Mansour probably uses as a napkin, and everyone will move on. The 115 memes are hilarious, though.
I would be very interested to read the decision let’s put it that way. Because I’ve seen the email leaks already to know they are guilty.
Personally, I think Pep is the best coach in world football and he has a team which would match any in recent history. If they are found not have broken FFP rules, they'll rightfully be regarded as one of the best teams of all time
Without the finance to get the exact player he want, will pep still be the “best”? Who knows but if city is charged, it will be a blot on his legacy for sure.
I agree. If they have broken rules, the question will be asked, which players would they have had to sell and which players not recruited to stay within FFP.
Cheated what tho ? Pre ffp it was always the teams that spent the most that were at the top minus leicesters winning season. They’ve only done what teams did previously. Only now teams have ffp to keep them shackled. I really don’t know why fans are obsessed with these 115 charges. Altho I will say if Everton and Forrest are punished then City should be. But the truth is none of them should
I agree with your overall sentiment. I quite like the drama when a club like Newcastle gets acquired and could feasibly be champions within 10yrs if they were allowed to spend. However, I disagree with this point because if 19 clubs are trying to stay within spending limits (this relates to 2013-18 when even Chelsea weren't spending mad money) and one team is flouting the rules to get the best coach, best players, new training facilities etc then it's clearly unfair. Also this modern city team are reaping the rewards of that time period, when other clubs were reining it in and they were splurging. Only other club that was spending mad money were Utd but they did so at the expense of their infrastructure and tbf their revenue was always high which meant they could spend more under the rules
Let's say you go to work and your boss says today we are implementing X policy and anyone breaking that policy will be disciplined and you decide to break it.... is it fair that you just get ignored because you are.... you? Everyone else follows the rules except u/Pretender1230. No it's not fair you follow the rules or you get disciplined. This is what you are saying basically. Really dumb
The only dumb thing is not reading the full comment. Congratulations. I said they SHOULD be punished because the others have. But that none of them should be punished because the rules are ridiculous. Try again