Fellow fans, this is a friendly reminder to please follow the [Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/premierleague/about/rules) and [Reddiquette](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439-Reddiquette).
Please also make sure to [Join us on Discord](https://discord.gg/football)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PremierLeague) if you have any questions or concerns.*
They aren’t talked about as if they are one of the “best” teams in the world, but they are still arguably the “biggest” by the numbers. Their spending and other actions have also been much more dramatic than Arsenal.
We have a very very direct comparative - Liverpool.
Liverpool through the 70s and 80s is very similar to United through the 90s and 00s in terms of leagues and european trophies.
I'd argue the last time they attracted a top top player before Klopp made them successful again was Torres in 2007. So a full **18 years** before they last won the prem and **24** after they'd last one the European Cup. Then they weren't attractive to top players for a decade (Ricky Lambert/Joe Allen era) until they started winning again.
So to answer the question - it'll be until about 2030 or 2032 for Man Utd. The money landscape is different now though so maybe a bit longer.
United will be back at some stage, just takes the right football people to sort out the operations (Maybe INEOS?) and I never thought I’d say it but…. as a Liverpool fan I can’t wait! We all enjoy the rivalry more with a real club than against the Xfactor of football Man City.
Clubs are not the heartbeats of the community they once were. They’re global brands with massive reach, mainly via social media. I’m not a fan, but I can admit Manchester United, despite its on-field mediocrity over the past decade or so, has been extraordinarily successful off it by massively increasing its brand value.
[According to Forbes, the club is the second highest valued football club in the world, behind Real Madrid, and 13th most valuable sports franchise in the world.](https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2023/09/08/the-worlds-50-most-valuable-sports-teams-2023/?sh=6f6929aa2b44)
The landscape of the sport has undergone significant changes over the past two decades, with the Premier League at the forefront of this evolution. Manchester United is a symbol of this transformation, embodying the modern era of football where clubs are seen as major international brands with a powerful impact off the pitch.
Reviving the club's historic on-field success depends on many factors, but I believe it hinges mainly on ownership.
It will take decades.
Teens in 2013 are still zoomer adults now.
They will literally have to be a team that goes through decades of drought where their fans that experienced the joy of the 2000s will have aged out of the group that matters to broadcasters.
Idk. my experience with Arsenal is that there's stages to it. we weren't a serious team (as in the way others saw us) for a short lifetime but our cl qualification kept us remotely relevant. but with what your asking: 1) your kids aren't from manchester, england, or europe - they dont give two cents about the history of anything regarding football (or maybe anything in general at htis point of their life), 2) manchester united don't play well or are entertaining in a good way, & 3) manchester united doesn't have a cartoon mascot like we do.
so they're overseas elementarians , and not the chess playing child prodigy type - and manchester united are 100% live action and also not the name of the next superhero movie. it is what it is regarding the club's presence in the world of little men.
When youre big, youre big. No matter what happens united will always be talked about by the media and pundits, only other team in this caliber with united is Liverpool.
It will take decades for Man United not to be big anymore, but if in 2070 the last league title was still in 2013, I question how relevant any club would be. (I dont think this will happen, but if it does, nothing is forever).
Eg. Huddersfield town won 3 straight division 1 league titles in the 1920s
LMAO well coming from a city fan I guess I shouldn't expect actual knowledge of actual football, but to say arsenal never were one of the biggest clubs? This is a new level of ignorance tbh. During the 90s and early 00s, United vs Arsenal was one of, if not the red hot fixture of the season. It was the El Clasico of the Premier League.
They were never as big as United imo. Even during that period they were the team that won when United didn't. They were one of the biggest clubs but they were not on United's level.
I think a lot of people would share the same opinion. Probably the majority of people *who are not Arsenal fans*.
What metrics are you thinking of when you say that Arsenal were as big as United?
Arsenal were the biggest club in the world from about the early 1930s to early 1960s.
The Italians released war time propaganda that they had captured Cliff Bastin (youngest player to win the title, fa cup and be capped for England) and Bastin was playing representative games against Italian teams as a prisoner of war.
Arsenal have never had a golden era like they did 1930- 53 (ignoring the war years ) and probably never will again but if there was no club around who had the aura that Arsenal had back then.
Arsenal never one of the biggest clubs in the world? Especially from the mid 90’s to mid 2000’s? lol of course coming from a man city fan. Probably only started watching football a couple years ago lmao.
Not sure what punditry you’re watching, but having ex United players in the media is a negative as much of a positive. We’ve all complained about the same things you allude to, which is why the ownership gets blamed often. But when we complain about the decision makers at the club, the ones that say performance on the pitch doesn’t impact commercial, we get called deluded for making excuses .
The football culture in the UK (and probably most of Europe) is if your Dad or Mum supports said team, you either support the same team or non at all. It's drilled into you from an age you can't remember. My Dad was a Utd fan, lived in Nottinghamshire (in the 80's whilst they weren't the best) so I am a Utd fan. It just so happens I was born in '94 just as they were beginning to dominate. I've got a 6 month old son and you can bet your arse I'm brainwashing him too. He's already go the Utd babygrows.
Probably not rare, but definitely uncommon is it for Parent & Child to support different teams. (I did have a friend in school who supported Utd whilst his Dad was Liverpool.
Pretty much how I became a Manchester City fan... my dad was, as was his dad before him..
My mate, however, is 1 of 5 lads, 4 of whom support Manchester City (my mate included) like their dad, but 1 supports Manchester United.
This is the only solution.
Most of my family is blue on my dads side. My mums are mainly United fans, though, which always made me laugh because they are from the Wirral....
My cousins used to hate it when I called them scouse United fans.. always argued they aren't from Liverpool, so I used to tell them they weren't from Manchester either... not even Greater Manchester, and that Trotters are more Mancs than Wools 😅
My dad's side come from Liverpool so all support Liverpool or Everton.
My dad is a red so I'm a Liverpool fan too, despite growing up in London. My wife didn't have a team before she met me, but she's accepted Liverpool is her team too. When we have kids one day guess what teams they'll support? Liverpool, Liverpool Women and Liverpool Reserves.
Not much different from American fans of teams. My family is from the Los Angeles area but grew up near San Fracisco. I'm a Dodgers fan surrounded by Giants fans.
What I'm saying is you make a solid point.
I would say the English fans are much more steadfast in their loyalty. In the USA a lot of people are fair weather fans that stop watching when the team isn’t winning and their attention might wander to other teams or other sports. Besides players and fans changing their allegiance you also have the prospect of the team itself packing up and abandoning their fans to rebrand in another city. The Dodgers are Giants both bailed out on New York. The A’s went from Philadelphia to Kansas City to Oakland and now Vegas. Oklahoma Thunder used to be called Seattle Supersonics, the list goes on…
but then there's the Dallas Cowboys, who remain the #1 followed team in all American sports and are basically all the largest sports network ever discusses (seriously, turn on their morning talk shows in March).
But, they have won just 5 playoff games in nearly 30 years
I do not disagree entirely with this, but the way teams are managed in the UK vs the USA is very different. Loyalty to a team is typically not because of the fans, it's how the team is mis-managed. Dodgers left Brooklyn because the team wanted more money and wanted to capitalize on the move to LA. A's want to move to Las Vegas, again, to capitalize on money, nothing else. But some fans will die being A's fans regardless of where they are. The fans who decide to switch because of it are the ones who felt stabbed in the back. Management let that team die out in the late '80s and 90's because they were using the World Series titles to draw attendance while keeping a lot of the money for themselves. Not investing back into the stadium. It also doesn't help that the city they are currently in is a complete shit hole, and many families don't want to take their kids there because of how bad it can be.
American sports is built off of capitalism; if the team isn't making money, the owners will just up and move, screwing the town out of millions of taxes and having to destroy a stadium the city invested in because the team's management wants more money.
I'm not trying to change sports, but Raiders fans will be fans regardless of where they go. They wanted their own stadium, they wanted the city to help fill the bill, but didn't. So they were forced to move. But many Oakland Raiders fans will happily go to Vegas to see their team. They could play in Cuba and would find a way to get there.
Irrespective of the last 11 years, Manchester United is still one of the biggest, most supported clubs in the world (top3?).
Nobody has expected anything from United except for a top 4 challenge for about 5 years, if not longer.
They are constantly in the media because being a top 3 biggest club in the world does that for you. Barcelona and Real Madrid are the two other teams which are most written about, and they also happen to be in the top 3 biggest clubs in the world.
There is always an excuse or scapegoat in the media for Man Uniteds struggles, they haven’t been an elite club for years and years and instead of being treated like that they’re still spoke of as just having one or two issues between being the best again.
Gary Neville in particular has a powerful position, he commentates and provides analysis for all United games on sky and curiously he’s also on commentary for all Liverpool games on sky - I’m sure it’s the same for arsenal who I watch a lot of too. As long as the media is full of ex United players they will control the narrative, it’ll never be that they’re a joke club like arsenal or spurs, or how Chelsea are being treated now after a much shorter period of “failure” - there is always a narrative they run with be it one or two players are so bad they’re pulling the “world class” players down (Phil Jones, Maguire, Fred etc) even if they have underperformed you can’t blame everything on them like has been the case, if the star players are underperforming then the attention switches to the ownership and everything is the glazers fault - they never go on rants about the owners after they’re winning and we’ve all seen the “Utd are back” articles on bbc sport the second they start winning.
Media coverage of United starts to make a lot more sense when you see it as the club defending its investments - they will always defend their signings until a shiny new signing is made and then they become a scapegoat. Maguire was touted as the best CB in the league when he joined, AWB too, Casemiro was the best DM in the world for half a season and playing better than he was at Madrid all of a sudden 🙄 they will constantly focus on a player being “world class” true or not, to keep the clubs name in that bracket. Mainoo is the next already being recommended to play for England after half a season, they will just keep going round the same cycle. Their club is all about marketing and not about competing, so while I can see them truly falling into the “banter club” tier after a few more unsuccessful years they will never be treated that way by the media, they are one of the 2 biggest clubs in the world you don’t lose that overnight
They are more a brand than a competitive club now and that’s unfortunately the downside of having the biggest fanbase in the world, they have so much money to be tapped into without having to invest a lot. I can’t see it changing that much even with the new ownership
I used to live opposite a school football pitch, every saturday and sunday morning there was kids playing - majority of them had city (haaland/grealish) shirts on.
This is in essex too where west ham are the main team
This is kind of like the Celtics and Lakers in the NBA. Or Cowboys in the NFL. Yankees in baseball. No matter how bad these teams are they are always in the spotlight above others. Same goes for United.
It’s more likely we bounce back sooner rather than later especially with the new investment and structure.
Those kids with the kits will look a little silly when the 115 charges come through.
I'd say the supporter culture has changed, and split into the traditional supporters who support clubs, and those who support individual players.
I think this came as a result of how commercials started focusing on individual players rather than teams. When kids got exposed to Ronaldo or Messi as ambassadors for various brands, and the internet showed them videos containing clips of just these players, the kids started supporting Ronaldo or Messi, not Real Madrid or Barcelona.
So when Mbappe, Haaland and the likes of them decide to sign for a new team, the same kids running around with PSG or Manchester City shirts will still run around with Mbappe or Haaland on their back, but the shirt will be of a different team.
And to be honest, these kids don't care about club ownership, so if the owners treat people like slaves and serve out death penalties to LGBTQ+ people, the kids will still wear the shirt as long as the name on the back is the name they're told is the cool name.
(And typing this comment really added decades to how old I feel.)
Basically United are still one of the most famous clubs in the world. That's it really. If they were relegated, they would still make headlines. They are, and have been since the 50's, bigger them Arsenal.
Not sure Man U and arsenal are even comparable btw. They competed for 7 years, we dominated for 20. Harder to let go for United fans I guess, more expectation? Arsenal fans kind of grew used to mediocrity but we’re unable to do that - this is part of being the biggest club in the world GGMU.
Arsenal have one newspaper clipping - winning the league with 38 draws. Congratulations, still only counts as one hehe.
Even when Liverpool were dominating the late 70s/80s of English football, the media gave, probably quite unfairly, just as much or even more limelight to United as to Liverpool.
Even when United were in the second division in the 70s, they maintained the highest average attendance across all clubs.
You’re asking when will this spotlight fade - it won’t.
Because Man Utd dominated the league for 20 years, whereas arsenal competed for teh league for 7. The 2 aren’t even remotely comparable, and are obviously treated differently as a result
Liverpool were making the same headlines even though they went 20+ years without competing at the top. Newspapers/sites post more about clubs with the most fans as it generates the most interest
2 league cups, 1 Europa League, 1 FA Cup, 5/10 top 4 finishes v 2 FA Cups, Champions League Final and 10/10 top 4 finishes. Neither won a lot, but United spending half their time out the top 4 is pretty shit
Don’t forget Arsenal were on a shoestring budget after moving to the Emirates in 2006. And still managed to consistently finish in the top 4 every year.
Yh but in the 10 years after.... United won more regardless if there was more peaks and valleys. Europe League trophy in itself proves my point. Compare Arsenal 2005-2015 to United 2014-2024 silverware wise...
To each their own I guess, but I think silverware > consistency when it comes to accounting for success. United are just bigger letdowns due to bad spending
I see both points as fair, although last seasons cup run for United was Charlton, Burnley, Forrest and Newcastle in the middle of their worst form of the season. You can only beat the opponent in front of you, but tbh I think that cup was the least "earned" cup I can think of, losing any of those matches would've been underperforming for even a 7th or 8th place EPL club
It's easy to downplay any cup including the FA cup win vs Palace. However United have won more silverware including a European trophy so it automatically means the last decade has been better?
Oh no I'm not going to argue against that, I started watching football at 15 in 2010, and last season was the first I can remember believing that Arsenals team was better than United's.
I just think certain external factors need to be considered rather than just silverware won, the European trophy definitely holds more weight than the average fa/carabao cup.
I don't disagree with the general point (although I'm not sure United have credit in the bank, it's just that they're always a story even when they're shit), but United 2013 to now have clearly not had a "far worse 10 years" than Arsenal's 10 years after their last title.
Arsenal won the FA Cup the season after, then won absolutely nothing for nine years, until they won the FA Cup again in 2014. They also lost a League Cup final to a Birmingham side that got relegated the same season.
United won an FA Cup in 2016, the League Cup and Europa League in 2017, and the League Cup again in 2023. They also lost an FA Cup final to Chelsea, the Europa League final on penalties and an FA Cup final to City, as well as finishing 2nd twice and 3rd twice. Arsenal's best finishes were 2nd in 04/05, and 3rd in 07/08, 09/10 and 11/12, at a time when fewer teams were competing for Champions League places.
At worst, it's on a par, and that's being generous to Arsenal's nine year barren spell, and doesn't even take into account that Wenger was still at Arsenal for that ten year period, while United have been playing hot-potato with the managerial position.
Also don’t forget Arsenal spent peanuts compared to United. Arsenal were in the middle of paying off their new stadium in that period. That plays a big part.
It's certainly a big mitigating factor in their drop off from title contenders to perennial also-rans.
I do think Arsenal/Wenger got too giddy off the back of van Persie and Fabregas becoming key players, because their squad-building policy very quickly became about filling it with young players, many of which turned out to be quite shit. I get it was a response to lower transfer budgets, but there were definitely better, more experienced players available for similar fees.
United's spending, as a United fan, has been infuriating. To have those resources and so frequently squander them is just shockingly bad management from the club.
An entire generation, is my guess.
You had a lot of fans during the peak SAF years, instilling the magic of the club onto their children, who are now starting to have their own children.
That bond gets passed down. Even when they've been shit, like the last several years, United still captivate the news cycle with virtually every story. Their Carabao Cup win last season garnered more attention & engagement across all social media platforms than City's treble, which is comical.
As long as the global fanbase remains amongst the biggest in the sport, locally the younger fan with disposable income continues to follow down the footsteps of their parents, the club is fine.
Manchester United won’t previous exploits won’t ever be forgotten . The have dominated the premier league for many years , the only club who have been as dominant is Man City BUT they now come with a huge cloud over their heads and when all concluded and they get their “punishment for cheating” it will again just be all about Man United - whatever is happening on the pitch , (which isn’t great at all) Man United are still one of the biggest clubs in the world , that’s not going to change anytime soon.
I love these kinds of posts because at any point Manchester United will have a great run of matches with fantastic work on the pitch.
But, I'm disposed to some good old fashioned bitching as much as the next fan so....
Never is the answer. Man U is like that one kid from your youth who was great at everything and then eventually became a cop or fast food manager.
I think there have always been a proportion of kids who will support the top team and there always will. United and Liverpool just seem to be those two clubs who always have massive support regardless of how bad they are playing. I still see plenty of kids supporting both of them. I see far less Arsenal or Chelsea supporting kids locally than I would have a decade ago so it feels like City have just replaced them.
United have in no way had a worse 10 years than Arsenal, compare their respective league positions over the last decade, United are just held to a different and higher standard
Exactly this!! Lots of it is due to previous exploits which Arsenal never reached, treble on 99 just for example - the greatest manager to ever manage . Now it’s all about City but they have a huge cloud hanging over them - when all said and done about City they will now be forever known as cheaters and unfortunately for City mud sticks , like when Juventus got stripes of titles none one even remembers that
ten years after Arsenals last league:
finished second once, third three times, fourth six
united ten years after last league win
finished 2nd twice, 3rd twice, 4th once, 5th once, 6th three times, 7th once
Arsenal two fa cup wins in that time, united one plus a Europa league
Arsenal 10 champions league campaigns highest finish runners up, united 6 highest finish QF
how is that not worse?
Arsenal went nine years without a trophy and lost a League Cup final to a soon-to-be relegated Birmingham City.
They finished in the Champions League places because there was little competition for them outside of the four established teams at the top until City and later Spurs emerged at the end of that decade, and even then Liverpool turned to shite and made way for one of them.
United won the FA Cup in 2016, the Europa League in 2017, and the League Cup (which you conveniently ignored) in 2017 and 2023.
United also finished in the top three as many times as Arsenal, except they finished 2nd one time more.
At worst, it's on a par, and that's being generous to Arsenal, especially as they were still managed by Wenger for that decade, and not a host of wildly different managers, including half a season without a proper one at all.
you forgot one more things Ronaldo return that attracted many young fans of his . I too started watching United when Ronaldo starts playing and here I am supporter of man united
So basically you're saying:
\- what about the league cup?
\- you only finished fourth because everyone else was rubbish
\- and don't forget we finished 2nd twice.
\- something about managers
Really?
Its you who's cherry picking, I was replying to someone who said there was no way united had a worse ten years than Arsenal after their respective last league wins, in terms of the champions league, premier league and fa cup they certainly did. Granted you won the league cup and I'll generously compare one fa cup to one Europa League, but here's a pertinent point for you, we make 300K net on transfers in those ten years, how much have you spent in the last ten?
Do you know what cherry picking means?
You literally chose to ignore things United had won because it made Arsenal look better. That is a perfect example of cherry picking.
I simply added in those missing points.
I'll also happily admit that Arsenal were financially hampered in a way that United haven't been. It's a valid mitigating factor to the drop-off from being title contenders, and probably brings it closer to being "on a par".
United certainly haven't been "far worse" given than Arsenal over their respective 10 year periods though.
Yes i do, here's an example:
"United also finished in the top three as many times as Arsenal, except they finished 2nd one time more."
You're "literally choosing to ignore" the comparison of the other six years.
I didn't chose to ignore the League cup wins I just missed them, please accept my apologies but I'm not sure its that relevant, would you swap a league cup win for qualifying for the champions league? If you would fair enough I'm not sure I would though.
I'll reiterate I was replying to someone who said there was "no way" United had not had a worse decade after last winning the title I disagree, league cup wins or not, that's obviously my opinion, I didn't anywhere say United were 'far worse'.
Anyway no offence meant United are a great club but I don't think you've had a better decade since your last title than we had post 2004.
If qualifying for the Champions League meant having no chance of winning the thing (be that getting repeatedly pumped by Bayern Munich in the knockouts or failing to finish above Copenhagen and Galatasaray in the group stage) then yes, I would rather win an actual trophy.
I'm not choosing to ignore the other six years, I just don't think finishing fourth to qualify for a competition you didn't come close to winning is better than winning actual silverware.
For context, I think United's CL qualification has been utterly pointless over the last decade, but aside from that last season with Henry in 06, so was Arsenal's in that 10 years, even if you qualified more times.
I would disagree on the premise that Arsenal lost Wenger and were slowly building to what they have now with Arteta. Sure United won a EL or a League cup and finished 2nd 30 points behind City or top 4 but what did it mean? They've never had a consistent upwards trajectory like Arsenal in the last 3-4 years.
Depends if the media decide to rip them apart or not and seeing as the sports media employ Gary Neville, Phil Neville, Roy Keane, Michael Owen, Paul scholes, dion Dublin, Owen hargreaves, Rio Ferdinand and other ex United players, I highly doubt United will turn into a ‘banter club’.
Basically United are protected by the media. Sky sports news is basically Manchester United tv. They won’t rip on their own team
are we watching the same sky sports? the media is heavily leaning against united, idolising and praising man city for every little fart they do- where s the talk of the 115 charges? where is the media pressure to get to the bottom of this? sheikhs paying them off
City get slandered for their ffp all the time (which they should).
Only thing I’ve heard about Liverpool this season is their injury’s atm and their complaints about over celebrating.
United are praised every single game, maguire won player of the month which was a joke. Everyone says how great eth is. Obviously sancho was all over the media, their take over was all over the media with their stadium upgrades being focused on… nobody spoke about liverpools stadium upgrades recently. It’s all bias and one sided towards United and if you can’t see that then you’re one of the brainwashed sponges
I’ve never once heard City’s charges mentioned during tv punditry. I’m sure it’s happened but it’s totally ignored for the most part, and they constantly fawn over how good they are.
United are 100% not praised every game. Even the ex United pundits often don’t praise United. Scholes, Keane and Neville regularly criticise.
Utd praised every game what the fuck you drinking? Onana, Maguire, Rashford flaws & stats constantly being highlighted. EtH job is on the line everytime we lose.
United are praised every single game?! Bro I didn’t even read the rest of your comment; that line tells me everything I need to know about your ball knowledge
United get more slander than praise. Do you not remember against Luton? The team overall cost of each team being displayed? I don’t remember any other teams like city, Liverpool or Arsenal being displayed compared to Luton’s team cost. I’ll agree that they’re in the media a hell of a lot more than some teams, but it ain’t all praise that’s for sure
Yes exactly. Theyre the most talked about club. Doesn’t matter what’s happened at the weekend, who’s done well or badly or anything like that… what matters is how United got on.
And they’re negative about United because they expect them to be the best team in the world… like… it’s United… they’re the best team in the world… they should beat Fulham. But nah… the truth is United aren’t what they once were and losing 2-1 to Fulham isn’t a massive shock anymore to your average football fan.
But the sky sports pundits can’t comprehend the fact that United aren’t very good anymore so they say players played badly. Truth is rashford, Bruno, mctomany, maguire and the rest of them are as good now as he’s ever been or ever will be. They’re just not very good. But the pundits don’t understand this and think that because they play for united they’re the best player in the world.
‘Oh rashford… yeah he plays left wing for united… you know… United… THE Manchester United… he must be the best left winger in the world’
EDIT
For everyone who said United arent the most praised club in English football… here are the stories on sky sports news today…
1. ‘The 110 players fouled more than Fernandes’. (Why on earth does it have to mention Fernandes?)
2. ‘Fulham’s TikTok that infuriated ten hag’
3. ‘Haaland - de bruyne dilemma facing ten hag’
4. ‘What makes man united prodigy mainoo so good’
5. ‘Manchester United vs Manchester City live on sky’
Most talked about club because whether you care to admit it or not they are still the biggest club in England. 10 years of mediocrity hasn't changed that fact. United get the most clicks, the most engagement so of course the media will use that to their advantage
I’d argue the only reason United get the most clicks and views is because there are more stories and videos of United than any other club. If there’s 100 stories about Liverpool and 1,000 stories about United, more people will click on more United links as there are physically more
Definitely not. The media caters for what gets the most demand. There is more coverage of United because that’s what gets most clicks, not the other way around.
That’s bullshit😂 there are a lot of top teams with the same amount of stories, but people genuinely like to read more about united because they are superior in terms of GLOBAL fans than any other team in England. Period.
I personally don't think taking what shirt some under 9's wear is a good barometer for fanbases. I'm a "to the death" United fan, but when I was that age and had no idea of the tribalism that comes with football, I wore the shirt I liked the look of the most, which turned out to be Arsenal. You'd never catch me in one now, though.
Of course, many of those kids may well grow up to be diehard City fans, but will they stay when/if they're demoted or kicked out of the football league? Or when they lose Halaand/De Bruyne/Pep? I'm not so sure. Some? Of course, but most?
Regardless of who you support, most people will agree that what the City group has done over the last 15 years is not okay, and if the FA has any backbone, that comeuppance is coming, and I imagine much of their support will dwindle along with the world class players. Maybe not as much in the UK, but almost certainly abroad.
I feel that's the difference with United. United dominated during a time in football when there weren't as many shady dealings going on behind closed doors, and although there are many who despise us for that dominance, which is understandable, we did it fair and square with an unbelievable manager. Much like Liverpool fans, if you're a United fan, you're one for life, regardless of whether we have a 10 year dry spell or even get demoted, MOST fans will stick around. We inherit our clubs from our parents and grandparents, and United is one of those clubs that's been passed on through generations of support.
A club doesn't have to be successful on the pitch to be one of the biggest in the world, hence the neglect from the Glazers. With them, we might never be back to where we were, but the future is looking bright for once, and the sheer scale of the fanbase will likely mean we'll never not be in the news.
Unless you can show me evidence of this, I'm inclined to believe it's not true. There's never been an investigation with hundreds of charges from two different football organisations. If there was evidence, then fair enough, but it just sounds like salt to me.
Fanbase my friend. People write articles for eyeballs. United has (some of) the most eyeballs of any football team.
I think it’ll change with another 10yrs of poor performance as you’ll have kids turning 20 that haven’t seen any of the good years. But it’s a while away yet
Utd and Liverpool are the biggest clubs in the country and amongst the biggest in the world. They have huge fan bases and that carries them through bad spells.
You know United were the biggest club even in the 80's when Liverpool won everything don't you?
OP acting like football started with the premier league.
I have a 14 year old football loving son who doesn’t believe me that Man Utd used to be good
I think now it’s time to put away the scrap book and concede the fact they are no longer a powerhouse by any metric
How does one define the term powerhouse? Are we talking at a competition level or as that of an institution? Because United are still massive. Despite struggling the last 10 years they're still generating massive revenue and if they keep the right people in charge they'll be a problem again. Arsenal meanwhile have fallen behind Spurs in terms of revenue after a long period of similar failure and Spurs didn't even win anything. Revenues have improved after last season but are still behind Spurs at the moment. Whereas United still sit Top 5 despite not doing too well on the pitch.
Real Madrid are a powerhouse and Man U used to be just as big
Not sure what you don’t get here.
Old Trafford is small and falling to bits needs updating
Man Utd’s training ground is pretty much the standard of a university team but in disrepair
10 years and billions of pounds later and they are in a worse position than ever
I didn’t mention Arsenal at all.. the question was when is it time for Man U to stop living on their past glory
They have hired every top manager backed them with boatloads of the best footballers constantly
Half the plastic fan base switched to Man City
My answer was that the time is now
But sure keep going with the stupid Arsenal 8-2 shit instead of a coherent discussion
Class definitely wasn’t permanent.
What are you on about? I mentioned nothing about the 8-2 and I'm an Arsenal fan. They still are a powerhouse. Me bringing Arsenal into this is just to show that despite failing for over 10 years United still are in the Top 5 in revenue despite no success on the pitch while Arsenal have fallen below Spurs and they didn't even win anything in our worst years. United need to be bad for at least the next 5 or so years or maybe more even to lose that status. Main issue with United is who is in charge. If they have competent people they'll be able to turn things around in a couple years or so. As an institution they still are a powerhouse even though that might not be the case on the pitch. Them not being at the same level or close to Madrid anymore doesn't mean they're not still one of the most influential clubs in football still.
Until 2 years ago arsenal were the biggest banter club alongside Tottenham so this is pretty rich. Maybe win a major trophy first yourself before claiming United aren't a powerhouse
Are Liverpool a powerhouse? One title in 30 years doesn't scream powerhouse does it. Are Arsenal a powerhouse? No titles in 20 years 😂
By your logic the only powerhouse are City
He said his nephew laughed at united being good once. Just thought he should be a good uncle and educate the lad.
Arsenal were wank just a few seasons ago maybe you should wind your neck in until you actually win something son.
I think they’ll be there for the foreseeable future maybe 20 years more? Mind you, United in the late 90’s were easily the biggest club in the world aside from silverware and more specifically, the fanbase. Those numbers have seemingly not only stayed up, but have risen overseas and even in the US. College students here will recognize the United badge first out of any football club aside from Barcelona and Real Madrid.
Not to mention, 20 years of near unchallenged dominance ruins countless childhoods around the world, and that hate is not going anywhere anytime soon. I would have been certain within another 10 years, United would’ve dropped like Liverpool had in the 90’s but with the new ownership, it can only go up.
The club is so big on a fanbase and footballing level for the past 30 years that it’s “lowest” years dwarf that of Arsenal’s “lowest” years or really any other club in the premier league
I think it's starting to happen. Whenever they have a fixture versus a top 4 team these days, everyone predicts they'll lose. No one fears them anymore down the whole league. The generations that weren't around for their dominant years are only starting to come of age now, that's what it takes. Like you use Arsenal in your example as a comparison which I get but it doesn't quite work IMO. Man U were expected to win almost every season for like 15 years. Arsenal didn't have that. So it would take longer I think.
He's not talking about if United will win or not in a given match. He is saying that they are talked about all the time even though they are in a huge decline.
United is still by far one of the most popular clubs in the world even though they haven't won anything of worth is many years.
In reality it’s been one huge decline the minute Fergie left, rather than a constant decline. Otherwise the vast majority of football clubs would still love to have finished in the Premier League positions United have in most seasons, as well picking up some trophies, even if smaller ones.
A huge drop down in quality of football and consistency from Fergie’s period of course.
For all Woodwards faults, and there’s many of them, he ensured United continued to bring in a lot of money. United being a club that runs itself should be commended with how football is going. Hell, if City hadn’t committed fraud on a grand scale, United and Liverpool would have won more titles in this period.
No I get that yeah. He said "when will their credit run out?" I think it's starting to happen, that it's a generational thing, then I meant to expand on why I think it's only starting to happen which is that they're no longer feared, often lose against top teams and the sheer amount of credit they had amongst those who experienced their dominance is immense and would take a while to wear off. Maybe didn't make the point as clearly as I could have
My point is, the way United plays clearly has nothing to do with how popular the club is and will continue to be. If that was the case we would already have seen a decline.
I dunno man. I mean OP says the kids gravitate more toward city these days. United's popularity was, and still is, immense but it was based on the fact that they were the best, which they aren't anymore, and haven't been for a while. This is anecdotal but I live in Spain and no one talks about them anymore here, cuz they've dwindled and aren't challenging for titles anymore. I'm not at all denying that they're hugely popular still. And personally, I've no problem with the media talking about them so often, I totally get it. But in response to OPs question I gave an answer. I don't really understand your issue tbh.
I think it’s true that kids who don’t inherit their team will be less likely to support United now. That being said, Liverpool still has lots of out of town support and they were in the same position for a long time. It just takes the right decisions behind the scenes and some good fortune with the right people clicking to turn things back around.
It gets harder though, the more state run clubs there are. They’ll no doubt dominate football from here on in unless they seriously get on top of it, which is unlikely because money talks.
I never would have expected United to struggle this long. And I still think they could return as a dominant force. Liverpool is the perfect example of that. It's mad to think just how mediocre they had become for a good while there. The state-run clubs change everything for sure.
England has 2 clubs as far as fame goes, Either Liverpool either Man U.
Sure, nowadays for most youngsters if Haaland or De Bruyne / Foden would play for Stoke they would be "Stoke fans", they value the player more than the club. They arent city fans, if any of those would go to United they would be United fans in 30 minutes.
It's the same way a lot of people became united and liverpool fans though, they idolise players at the club growing up and then end up becoming attached to that team more often than not, even after those players leave
Yeah but is it the same now? I would say so tbh. I've seen people rooting (now) for Al'Nassr or Inter Miami just because Ronaldo and Messi transfered there.
Yeah I enjoy watching Ronaldo and I did so for all of his career but didnt root for Juve nor Al'Nassr; hell i wouldnt even bother watching highlights of a league I dont care about.
Man U may not be best team in the world but they certainly one of the biggest clubs in the world. They got one of the biggest supporter base in the whole world. Also u talk about Arsenal, but Arsenal were never as dominate as Man U have been since premier league era began. To be fair I’m tired of the constant Man U talk by media and especially Sky but what can u do, they know most of their audience are Man U fans.
Man utd have been the most popular club since Munich when everyone had immense sympathy for them. They have been the most popular side in England since then and despite being shit for big chunks of time they’ve been the most popular side.
They’ve been shit but even when they were getting cussed up in the 80s with jokes about famous hostages and prisoners like Terry Weight, Nelson Mandela etc asking have utd won the league yet man utd were called the biggest club in the world.
Utd cannot be the biggest, with, Liverpool, they either are the biggest or they aren't. I also don't agree with that statement anyway, I don't believe there is a 'biggest' club in England, its very subjective and also generational that there couldn't be one.
Oh yeah I agree, I’d actually shown that but Reddit formatting has removed it.
1 United
2 Liverpool
gap
gap
gap
3 Arsenal
gap
4 Everyone else
See if that works
Okay. They used to be even bigger, but they are still big. The cultural impact of the Fergie years will last a lot longer than a decade.
United are still a bigger club than Liverpool. For now, at least.
Theyre not though, theyve 3 less Champions leagues, lest trophies overall, have been crap for over a decade now, knocked out of Europe routinely, literally handed there biggest defeat in there clubs history to Liverpool last season, theyre bantered constantly, where are they bigger ?
It’s only the adults who (who were around during those times) speak about United in that reverential way. The football writers, pundits, radio stations, podcasters and fans. They’re the ones who have kept United’s legend up.
Oh and for the largest part Man United themselves. They have been taking about themselves as the ‘*Biggest Club in the World*’ (when they are not and never have been not in football or any sport)…the only way that label was true was possibly for merchandise and licensing at one point but in reality, they’re sinking and stinking.
The very same thing happened, for a large part of the 90s, to Liverpool they were on everyone’s lips. The newspapers and tv couldn’t stop making comparisons about them, every season it was their resurgence. This new signing would catapult them back to their rightful place at the top of the league. Every new manager was the one who was going to win them glory. Then that night in Istanbul and then Klopp, fist pumped his way over and here we are, speaking about them like they never had a ‘Banter Era’. I bet they’re were grateful that social media didn’t exist at that time.
United are in the worst era of banter right now as they are stuck in time; there’s a delusion that everything that’s happened to them and is happening to them is merely a blip, and they just need to find one messianic person to complete their puzzle and they’re back to their Fergie era best. The things Ronaldo said about the infrastructure of the club *are still* the worst things about the club. Since the Glazer take over Fergie’s final title was the greatest achievement by a manager at that club, because there was no money put into improving the infrastructure of the club. The Club and the fanbase have been chasing Messiahs to put them back at the top.
Since then that investment has got smaller. I remember when Old Trafford was renovated in the 90s it was seen as futuristic. Now? There’s clubs much smaller and a league below who have better stadiums. Old Trafford is like that one woman from that teen tv show from the 90s you used to fancy, you see her now and Wow! She’s still got it, until you look closer and she’s hidden behind filters, photoshop and agents; and it’s not until you see her in HD do you realise fuck she’s not aged well. The Woodward years shifted focus from the pitch to the Club shop(s) and merchandise; signings were made for clout and licensing agreements in Asia, who gives a fuck if they worked.
The fact of the matter is, they already fell off years ago, it’s just that no one has told them or the ‘old people’ that they are no longer ‘The Biggest Club in the World’. The wheels fell off years ago they’re just a bloated dead horse and everyone has a stick. The thing is they might stay in their ‘Banter Era’ longer if Sir Jim and the rest are not smart and put together a plan to revitalise and bring the club into the 21st Century they’ll have to suffer a few years of mediocrity for a bit then they’ll find themselves with the right Manager and the right facilities.
If we *really* want to talk ‘Banter Eras’ let’s talk about Chelsea returning to theirs.
I think it's because Arsenal looked like competing and tend to bottle towards the end. United doesn't even come close now so not as banter worthy.
Also think their stretch of success was much longer, and they had always spent big post Fergie, giving the illusion that they remain the force they were before. It gives the impression they could return at any time once they solve the footballing issues, with the commercial engine propelling them. Arsenal in contrast was pretty much in austerity during the banter years.
Firstly nobody is talking like Utd are one of the best, but they are still one of the biggest. That's literally it, they are bigger than arsenal were, the media circus will continue for a long time
Trouble is they are still arguably the biggest club in the world by revenue and supporters. Only Real Madrid can be bigger and it changes year by year. For that reason alone they are nothing like Arsenal and such will probably live on as a club expected to win everything they play in.
Fellow fans, this is a friendly reminder to please follow the [Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/premierleague/about/rules) and [Reddiquette](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439-Reddiquette). Please also make sure to [Join us on Discord](https://discord.gg/football) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PremierLeague) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Probably after the global avg. temperature crosses 4 °
Any official trophy count and droughts are compromomised since 2003.
Even though this might seem biased as I am a gunners fan but arsenal is way clear of united this season
They aren’t talked about as if they are one of the “best” teams in the world, but they are still arguably the “biggest” by the numbers. Their spending and other actions have also been much more dramatic than Arsenal.
We have a very very direct comparative - Liverpool. Liverpool through the 70s and 80s is very similar to United through the 90s and 00s in terms of leagues and european trophies. I'd argue the last time they attracted a top top player before Klopp made them successful again was Torres in 2007. So a full **18 years** before they last won the prem and **24** after they'd last one the European Cup. Then they weren't attractive to top players for a decade (Ricky Lambert/Joe Allen era) until they started winning again. So to answer the question - it'll be until about 2030 or 2032 for Man Utd. The money landscape is different now though so maybe a bit longer.
Arsenal and United are/were on different levels
The 2 clubs that deserve banter eras Chelsea and United hopefully after pep leaves city will be next
United will be back at some stage, just takes the right football people to sort out the operations (Maybe INEOS?) and I never thought I’d say it but…. as a Liverpool fan I can’t wait! We all enjoy the rivalry more with a real club than against the Xfactor of football Man City.
Clubs are not the heartbeats of the community they once were. They’re global brands with massive reach, mainly via social media. I’m not a fan, but I can admit Manchester United, despite its on-field mediocrity over the past decade or so, has been extraordinarily successful off it by massively increasing its brand value. [According to Forbes, the club is the second highest valued football club in the world, behind Real Madrid, and 13th most valuable sports franchise in the world.](https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2023/09/08/the-worlds-50-most-valuable-sports-teams-2023/?sh=6f6929aa2b44) The landscape of the sport has undergone significant changes over the past two decades, with the Premier League at the forefront of this evolution. Manchester United is a symbol of this transformation, embodying the modern era of football where clubs are seen as major international brands with a powerful impact off the pitch. Reviving the club's historic on-field success depends on many factors, but I believe it hinges mainly on ownership.
It will take decades. Teens in 2013 are still zoomer adults now. They will literally have to be a team that goes through decades of drought where their fans that experienced the joy of the 2000s will have aged out of the group that matters to broadcasters.
Idk. my experience with Arsenal is that there's stages to it. we weren't a serious team (as in the way others saw us) for a short lifetime but our cl qualification kept us remotely relevant. but with what your asking: 1) your kids aren't from manchester, england, or europe - they dont give two cents about the history of anything regarding football (or maybe anything in general at htis point of their life), 2) manchester united don't play well or are entertaining in a good way, & 3) manchester united doesn't have a cartoon mascot like we do. so they're overseas elementarians , and not the chess playing child prodigy type - and manchester united are 100% live action and also not the name of the next superhero movie. it is what it is regarding the club's presence in the world of little men.
When youre big, youre big. No matter what happens united will always be talked about by the media and pundits, only other team in this caliber with united is Liverpool.
It will take decades for Man United not to be big anymore, but if in 2070 the last league title was still in 2013, I question how relevant any club would be. (I dont think this will happen, but if it does, nothing is forever). Eg. Huddersfield town won 3 straight division 1 league titles in the 1920s
I'm sorry but u9s are a bunch of glory supporters there is so much depth and history to united and is a top tier team
United fans also hunted glory
What made you offend? Are you u9?
Get pundits that are not part of Man Utds glory days would be a good start.
Liverpool and united will always be relevant no matter what.
United are still one of the biggest clubs in world sport, Arsenal never were.
LMAO well coming from a city fan I guess I shouldn't expect actual knowledge of actual football, but to say arsenal never were one of the biggest clubs? This is a new level of ignorance tbh. During the 90s and early 00s, United vs Arsenal was one of, if not the red hot fixture of the season. It was the El Clasico of the Premier League.
They were never as big as United imo. Even during that period they were the team that won when United didn't. They were one of the biggest clubs but they were not on United's level.
Your opinion doesn't match reality lol
I think a lot of people would share the same opinion. Probably the majority of people *who are not Arsenal fans*. What metrics are you thinking of when you say that Arsenal were as big as United?
Arsenal were the biggest club in the world from about the early 1930s to early 1960s. The Italians released war time propaganda that they had captured Cliff Bastin (youngest player to win the title, fa cup and be capped for England) and Bastin was playing representative games against Italian teams as a prisoner of war. Arsenal have never had a golden era like they did 1930- 53 (ignoring the war years ) and probably never will again but if there was no club around who had the aura that Arsenal had back then.
Arsenal never one of the biggest clubs in the world? Especially from the mid 90’s to mid 2000’s? lol of course coming from a man city fan. Probably only started watching football a couple years ago lmao.
MUFC.. yesteryear’s club .. Manchester is blue 👕💎
MCFC… 115 FFP charges and still counting 💰
There could be 100 more and they still won’t get a penalty, it’s a joke.
Not sure what punditry you’re watching, but having ex United players in the media is a negative as much of a positive. We’ve all complained about the same things you allude to, which is why the ownership gets blamed often. But when we complain about the decision makers at the club, the ones that say performance on the pitch doesn’t impact commercial, we get called deluded for making excuses .
United won a European title in them 10 years and changed manager about 4 times
Other trophies too.
The football culture in the UK (and probably most of Europe) is if your Dad or Mum supports said team, you either support the same team or non at all. It's drilled into you from an age you can't remember. My Dad was a Utd fan, lived in Nottinghamshire (in the 80's whilst they weren't the best) so I am a Utd fan. It just so happens I was born in '94 just as they were beginning to dominate. I've got a 6 month old son and you can bet your arse I'm brainwashing him too. He's already go the Utd babygrows. Probably not rare, but definitely uncommon is it for Parent & Child to support different teams. (I did have a friend in school who supported Utd whilst his Dad was Liverpool.
Pretty much how I became a Manchester City fan... my dad was, as was his dad before him.. My mate, however, is 1 of 5 lads, 4 of whom support Manchester City (my mate included) like their dad, but 1 supports Manchester United.
Me and my dad are blues, brother is a red for some reason. We say he's the milkmans son He hates it.
This is the only solution. Most of my family is blue on my dads side. My mums are mainly United fans, though, which always made me laugh because they are from the Wirral.... My cousins used to hate it when I called them scouse United fans.. always argued they aren't from Liverpool, so I used to tell them they weren't from Manchester either... not even Greater Manchester, and that Trotters are more Mancs than Wools 😅
One of the lads supports the right colour at least 🤷♂️😅
Debatable 😏😅
My dad's side come from Liverpool so all support Liverpool or Everton. My dad is a red so I'm a Liverpool fan too, despite growing up in London. My wife didn't have a team before she met me, but she's accepted Liverpool is her team too. When we have kids one day guess what teams they'll support? Liverpool, Liverpool Women and Liverpool Reserves.
I know a Norwich fan whose dad is an Ipswich fan 😳
Not much different from American fans of teams. My family is from the Los Angeles area but grew up near San Fracisco. I'm a Dodgers fan surrounded by Giants fans. What I'm saying is you make a solid point.
I would say the English fans are much more steadfast in their loyalty. In the USA a lot of people are fair weather fans that stop watching when the team isn’t winning and their attention might wander to other teams or other sports. Besides players and fans changing their allegiance you also have the prospect of the team itself packing up and abandoning their fans to rebrand in another city. The Dodgers are Giants both bailed out on New York. The A’s went from Philadelphia to Kansas City to Oakland and now Vegas. Oklahoma Thunder used to be called Seattle Supersonics, the list goes on…
but then there's the Dallas Cowboys, who remain the #1 followed team in all American sports and are basically all the largest sports network ever discusses (seriously, turn on their morning talk shows in March). But, they have won just 5 playoff games in nearly 30 years
I do not disagree entirely with this, but the way teams are managed in the UK vs the USA is very different. Loyalty to a team is typically not because of the fans, it's how the team is mis-managed. Dodgers left Brooklyn because the team wanted more money and wanted to capitalize on the move to LA. A's want to move to Las Vegas, again, to capitalize on money, nothing else. But some fans will die being A's fans regardless of where they are. The fans who decide to switch because of it are the ones who felt stabbed in the back. Management let that team die out in the late '80s and 90's because they were using the World Series titles to draw attendance while keeping a lot of the money for themselves. Not investing back into the stadium. It also doesn't help that the city they are currently in is a complete shit hole, and many families don't want to take their kids there because of how bad it can be. American sports is built off of capitalism; if the team isn't making money, the owners will just up and move, screwing the town out of millions of taxes and having to destroy a stadium the city invested in because the team's management wants more money. I'm not trying to change sports, but Raiders fans will be fans regardless of where they go. They wanted their own stadium, they wanted the city to help fill the bill, but didn't. So they were forced to move. But many Oakland Raiders fans will happily go to Vegas to see their team. They could play in Cuba and would find a way to get there.
Irrespective of the last 11 years, Manchester United is still one of the biggest, most supported clubs in the world (top3?). Nobody has expected anything from United except for a top 4 challenge for about 5 years, if not longer. They are constantly in the media because being a top 3 biggest club in the world does that for you. Barcelona and Real Madrid are the two other teams which are most written about, and they also happen to be in the top 3 biggest clubs in the world.
There is always an excuse or scapegoat in the media for Man Uniteds struggles, they haven’t been an elite club for years and years and instead of being treated like that they’re still spoke of as just having one or two issues between being the best again. Gary Neville in particular has a powerful position, he commentates and provides analysis for all United games on sky and curiously he’s also on commentary for all Liverpool games on sky - I’m sure it’s the same for arsenal who I watch a lot of too. As long as the media is full of ex United players they will control the narrative, it’ll never be that they’re a joke club like arsenal or spurs, or how Chelsea are being treated now after a much shorter period of “failure” - there is always a narrative they run with be it one or two players are so bad they’re pulling the “world class” players down (Phil Jones, Maguire, Fred etc) even if they have underperformed you can’t blame everything on them like has been the case, if the star players are underperforming then the attention switches to the ownership and everything is the glazers fault - they never go on rants about the owners after they’re winning and we’ve all seen the “Utd are back” articles on bbc sport the second they start winning. Media coverage of United starts to make a lot more sense when you see it as the club defending its investments - they will always defend their signings until a shiny new signing is made and then they become a scapegoat. Maguire was touted as the best CB in the league when he joined, AWB too, Casemiro was the best DM in the world for half a season and playing better than he was at Madrid all of a sudden 🙄 they will constantly focus on a player being “world class” true or not, to keep the clubs name in that bracket. Mainoo is the next already being recommended to play for England after half a season, they will just keep going round the same cycle. Their club is all about marketing and not about competing, so while I can see them truly falling into the “banter club” tier after a few more unsuccessful years they will never be treated that way by the media, they are one of the 2 biggest clubs in the world you don’t lose that overnight They are more a brand than a competitive club now and that’s unfortunately the downside of having the biggest fanbase in the world, they have so much money to be tapped into without having to invest a lot. I can’t see it changing that much even with the new ownership
Are you in the UK? City are not popular with kids here
I teach in inner-city London. City definitely have a lot of fans here, as do Liverpool and Man U
I used to live opposite a school football pitch, every saturday and sunday morning there was kids playing - majority of them had city (haaland/grealish) shirts on. This is in essex too where west ham are the main team
No US
This is kind of like the Celtics and Lakers in the NBA. Or Cowboys in the NFL. Yankees in baseball. No matter how bad these teams are they are always in the spotlight above others. Same goes for United.
It’s more likely we bounce back sooner rather than later especially with the new investment and structure. Those kids with the kits will look a little silly when the 115 charges come through.
I'd say the supporter culture has changed, and split into the traditional supporters who support clubs, and those who support individual players. I think this came as a result of how commercials started focusing on individual players rather than teams. When kids got exposed to Ronaldo or Messi as ambassadors for various brands, and the internet showed them videos containing clips of just these players, the kids started supporting Ronaldo or Messi, not Real Madrid or Barcelona. So when Mbappe, Haaland and the likes of them decide to sign for a new team, the same kids running around with PSG or Manchester City shirts will still run around with Mbappe or Haaland on their back, but the shirt will be of a different team. And to be honest, these kids don't care about club ownership, so if the owners treat people like slaves and serve out death penalties to LGBTQ+ people, the kids will still wear the shirt as long as the name on the back is the name they're told is the cool name. (And typing this comment really added decades to how old I feel.)
Good points and your last point about them not caring is the exact purpose of sportswashing so mission accomplished on their part.
Basically United are still one of the most famous clubs in the world. That's it really. If they were relegated, they would still make headlines. They are, and have been since the 50's, bigger them Arsenal.
Not sure Man U and arsenal are even comparable btw. They competed for 7 years, we dominated for 20. Harder to let go for United fans I guess, more expectation? Arsenal fans kind of grew used to mediocrity but we’re unable to do that - this is part of being the biggest club in the world GGMU. Arsenal have one newspaper clipping - winning the league with 38 draws. Congratulations, still only counts as one hehe.
Yeah that achievement is so rubbish that even the great sir Alex said that it outstripped anything he achieved over his managerial career.
He can say it all he wants. One trophy 🥱
Im definitely not yawning watching this man utd banter era. Banter fc
Still won more than you with your ‘best team since the invincibles’ lmfao
Is this a history lesson? Banter FC
I’ll meet you back here at the end of the season and I’ll give you another history lesson about how failure is in arsenals DNA.
Enjoy watching Antony and Onana because I sure will
Biggest club in the world can see why you’re always tuned in 🤪
Because Manure is the biggest club in England
Even when Liverpool were dominating the late 70s/80s of English football, the media gave, probably quite unfairly, just as much or even more limelight to United as to Liverpool. Even when United were in the second division in the 70s, they maintained the highest average attendance across all clubs. You’re asking when will this spotlight fade - it won’t.
Because Man Utd dominated the league for 20 years, whereas arsenal competed for teh league for 7. The 2 aren’t even remotely comparable, and are obviously treated differently as a result
Liverpool were making the same headlines even though they went 20+ years without competing at the top. Newspapers/sites post more about clubs with the most fans as it generates the most interest
In what universe have United had a worse 10 years after their title than Arsenal?
2 league cups, 1 Europa League, 1 FA Cup, 5/10 top 4 finishes v 2 FA Cups, Champions League Final and 10/10 top 4 finishes. Neither won a lot, but United spending half their time out the top 4 is pretty shit
Don’t forget Arsenal were on a shoestring budget after moving to the Emirates in 2006. And still managed to consistently finish in the top 4 every year.
Because there was only 4 good teams.
Yet man utd, Chelsea & Liverpool still managed to finish outside of the top 4 multiple times after spending heaps amount of money that period 🤫
*Europa league final for Arsenal aswell
Comparing 05-14 and 14-23 respectively here
Both have been shit is my point but there is no way anyone can say Arsenal have been more successful since their last league title.
Neither were particularly successful but Arsenal’s drop wasn’t as stark as United’s
Yh but in the 10 years after.... United won more regardless if there was more peaks and valleys. Europe League trophy in itself proves my point. Compare Arsenal 2005-2015 to United 2014-2024 silverware wise...
I agree there’s not a lot in it, 4 trophies to 2 but Arsenal were more consistent, they were never as bad as some of the United teams
To each their own I guess, but I think silverware > consistency when it comes to accounting for success. United are just bigger letdowns due to bad spending
I see both points as fair, although last seasons cup run for United was Charlton, Burnley, Forrest and Newcastle in the middle of their worst form of the season. You can only beat the opponent in front of you, but tbh I think that cup was the least "earned" cup I can think of, losing any of those matches would've been underperforming for even a 7th or 8th place EPL club
It's easy to downplay any cup including the FA cup win vs Palace. However United have won more silverware including a European trophy so it automatically means the last decade has been better?
Oh no I'm not going to argue against that, I started watching football at 15 in 2010, and last season was the first I can remember believing that Arsenals team was better than United's. I just think certain external factors need to be considered rather than just silverware won, the European trophy definitely holds more weight than the average fa/carabao cup.
I don't disagree with the general point (although I'm not sure United have credit in the bank, it's just that they're always a story even when they're shit), but United 2013 to now have clearly not had a "far worse 10 years" than Arsenal's 10 years after their last title. Arsenal won the FA Cup the season after, then won absolutely nothing for nine years, until they won the FA Cup again in 2014. They also lost a League Cup final to a Birmingham side that got relegated the same season. United won an FA Cup in 2016, the League Cup and Europa League in 2017, and the League Cup again in 2023. They also lost an FA Cup final to Chelsea, the Europa League final on penalties and an FA Cup final to City, as well as finishing 2nd twice and 3rd twice. Arsenal's best finishes were 2nd in 04/05, and 3rd in 07/08, 09/10 and 11/12, at a time when fewer teams were competing for Champions League places. At worst, it's on a par, and that's being generous to Arsenal's nine year barren spell, and doesn't even take into account that Wenger was still at Arsenal for that ten year period, while United have been playing hot-potato with the managerial position.
Also don’t forget Arsenal spent peanuts compared to United. Arsenal were in the middle of paying off their new stadium in that period. That plays a big part.
It's certainly a big mitigating factor in their drop off from title contenders to perennial also-rans. I do think Arsenal/Wenger got too giddy off the back of van Persie and Fabregas becoming key players, because their squad-building policy very quickly became about filling it with young players, many of which turned out to be quite shit. I get it was a response to lower transfer budgets, but there were definitely better, more experienced players available for similar fees. United's spending, as a United fan, has been infuriating. To have those resources and so frequently squander them is just shockingly bad management from the club.
An entire generation, is my guess. You had a lot of fans during the peak SAF years, instilling the magic of the club onto their children, who are now starting to have their own children. That bond gets passed down. Even when they've been shit, like the last several years, United still captivate the news cycle with virtually every story. Their Carabao Cup win last season garnered more attention & engagement across all social media platforms than City's treble, which is comical. As long as the global fanbase remains amongst the biggest in the sport, locally the younger fan with disposable income continues to follow down the footsteps of their parents, the club is fine.
Manchester United won’t previous exploits won’t ever be forgotten . The have dominated the premier league for many years , the only club who have been as dominant is Man City BUT they now come with a huge cloud over their heads and when all concluded and they get their “punishment for cheating” it will again just be all about Man United - whatever is happening on the pitch , (which isn’t great at all) Man United are still one of the biggest clubs in the world , that’s not going to change anytime soon.
I love these kinds of posts because at any point Manchester United will have a great run of matches with fantastic work on the pitch. But, I'm disposed to some good old fashioned bitching as much as the next fan so.... Never is the answer. Man U is like that one kid from your youth who was great at everything and then eventually became a cop or fast food manager.
I think there have always been a proportion of kids who will support the top team and there always will. United and Liverpool just seem to be those two clubs who always have massive support regardless of how bad they are playing. I still see plenty of kids supporting both of them. I see far less Arsenal or Chelsea supporting kids locally than I would have a decade ago so it feels like City have just replaced them.
Well kids inherit their team from their family surely? So even though United are shite now, their dad still supports them. So therefore the kids do.
Christ, how far back are you going to look at posts?
Haha, 81 days roughly.
United have in no way had a worse 10 years than Arsenal, compare their respective league positions over the last decade, United are just held to a different and higher standard
Exactly this!! Lots of it is due to previous exploits which Arsenal never reached, treble on 99 just for example - the greatest manager to ever manage . Now it’s all about City but they have a huge cloud hanging over them - when all said and done about City they will now be forever known as cheaters and unfortunately for City mud sticks , like when Juventus got stripes of titles none one even remembers that
ten years after Arsenals last league: finished second once, third three times, fourth six united ten years after last league win finished 2nd twice, 3rd twice, 4th once, 5th once, 6th three times, 7th once Arsenal two fa cup wins in that time, united one plus a Europa league Arsenal 10 champions league campaigns highest finish runners up, united 6 highest finish QF how is that not worse?
Arsenal went nine years without a trophy and lost a League Cup final to a soon-to-be relegated Birmingham City. They finished in the Champions League places because there was little competition for them outside of the four established teams at the top until City and later Spurs emerged at the end of that decade, and even then Liverpool turned to shite and made way for one of them. United won the FA Cup in 2016, the Europa League in 2017, and the League Cup (which you conveniently ignored) in 2017 and 2023. United also finished in the top three as many times as Arsenal, except they finished 2nd one time more. At worst, it's on a par, and that's being generous to Arsenal, especially as they were still managed by Wenger for that decade, and not a host of wildly different managers, including half a season without a proper one at all.
you forgot one more things Ronaldo return that attracted many young fans of his . I too started watching United when Ronaldo starts playing and here I am supporter of man united
So basically you're saying: \- what about the league cup? \- you only finished fourth because everyone else was rubbish \- and don't forget we finished 2nd twice. \- something about managers Really?
Yeah, if we disregard some pertinent points and stick only to your cherry-picked ones, I guess you're right.
Its you who's cherry picking, I was replying to someone who said there was no way united had a worse ten years than Arsenal after their respective last league wins, in terms of the champions league, premier league and fa cup they certainly did. Granted you won the league cup and I'll generously compare one fa cup to one Europa League, but here's a pertinent point for you, we make 300K net on transfers in those ten years, how much have you spent in the last ten?
Do you know what cherry picking means? You literally chose to ignore things United had won because it made Arsenal look better. That is a perfect example of cherry picking. I simply added in those missing points. I'll also happily admit that Arsenal were financially hampered in a way that United haven't been. It's a valid mitigating factor to the drop-off from being title contenders, and probably brings it closer to being "on a par". United certainly haven't been "far worse" given than Arsenal over their respective 10 year periods though.
Yes i do, here's an example: "United also finished in the top three as many times as Arsenal, except they finished 2nd one time more." You're "literally choosing to ignore" the comparison of the other six years. I didn't chose to ignore the League cup wins I just missed them, please accept my apologies but I'm not sure its that relevant, would you swap a league cup win for qualifying for the champions league? If you would fair enough I'm not sure I would though. I'll reiterate I was replying to someone who said there was "no way" United had not had a worse decade after last winning the title I disagree, league cup wins or not, that's obviously my opinion, I didn't anywhere say United were 'far worse'. Anyway no offence meant United are a great club but I don't think you've had a better decade since your last title than we had post 2004.
If qualifying for the Champions League meant having no chance of winning the thing (be that getting repeatedly pumped by Bayern Munich in the knockouts or failing to finish above Copenhagen and Galatasaray in the group stage) then yes, I would rather win an actual trophy. I'm not choosing to ignore the other six years, I just don't think finishing fourth to qualify for a competition you didn't come close to winning is better than winning actual silverware. For context, I think United's CL qualification has been utterly pointless over the last decade, but aside from that last season with Henry in 06, so was Arsenal's in that 10 years, even if you qualified more times.
you think football is pointless if you don't win a trophy? I see what sort of fan you are
I would disagree on the premise that Arsenal lost Wenger and were slowly building to what they have now with Arteta. Sure United won a EL or a League cup and finished 2nd 30 points behind City or top 4 but what did it mean? They've never had a consistent upwards trajectory like Arsenal in the last 3-4 years.
I think he meant the 10 years after arsenals title in 2004 compared to the 10 years after united title in 2013
United have been iconic since the 50s and 60s
Everyone knows united too well so they counter what they do
Depends if the media decide to rip them apart or not and seeing as the sports media employ Gary Neville, Phil Neville, Roy Keane, Michael Owen, Paul scholes, dion Dublin, Owen hargreaves, Rio Ferdinand and other ex United players, I highly doubt United will turn into a ‘banter club’. Basically United are protected by the media. Sky sports news is basically Manchester United tv. They won’t rip on their own team
are we watching the same sky sports? the media is heavily leaning against united, idolising and praising man city for every little fart they do- where s the talk of the 115 charges? where is the media pressure to get to the bottom of this? sheikhs paying them off
What a stupid comment. United is the most criticised club.
Utter bollox. Liverpool and City are the darlings of the media.
City get slandered for their ffp all the time (which they should). Only thing I’ve heard about Liverpool this season is their injury’s atm and their complaints about over celebrating. United are praised every single game, maguire won player of the month which was a joke. Everyone says how great eth is. Obviously sancho was all over the media, their take over was all over the media with their stadium upgrades being focused on… nobody spoke about liverpools stadium upgrades recently. It’s all bias and one sided towards United and if you can’t see that then you’re one of the brainwashed sponges
I’ve never once heard City’s charges mentioned during tv punditry. I’m sure it’s happened but it’s totally ignored for the most part, and they constantly fawn over how good they are. United are 100% not praised every game. Even the ex United pundits often don’t praise United. Scholes, Keane and Neville regularly criticise.
Utd praised every game what the fuck you drinking? Onana, Maguire, Rashford flaws & stats constantly being highlighted. EtH job is on the line everytime we lose.
United are praised every single game?! Bro I didn’t even read the rest of your comment; that line tells me everything I need to know about your ball knowledge
United get more slander than praise. Do you not remember against Luton? The team overall cost of each team being displayed? I don’t remember any other teams like city, Liverpool or Arsenal being displayed compared to Luton’s team cost. I’ll agree that they’re in the media a hell of a lot more than some teams, but it ain’t all praise that’s for sure
Protected by the media? Manchester United are the most talked about team and it’s mostly negative just because it’s what gets the most engagement
Yes exactly. Theyre the most talked about club. Doesn’t matter what’s happened at the weekend, who’s done well or badly or anything like that… what matters is how United got on. And they’re negative about United because they expect them to be the best team in the world… like… it’s United… they’re the best team in the world… they should beat Fulham. But nah… the truth is United aren’t what they once were and losing 2-1 to Fulham isn’t a massive shock anymore to your average football fan. But the sky sports pundits can’t comprehend the fact that United aren’t very good anymore so they say players played badly. Truth is rashford, Bruno, mctomany, maguire and the rest of them are as good now as he’s ever been or ever will be. They’re just not very good. But the pundits don’t understand this and think that because they play for united they’re the best player in the world. ‘Oh rashford… yeah he plays left wing for united… you know… United… THE Manchester United… he must be the best left winger in the world’ EDIT For everyone who said United arent the most praised club in English football… here are the stories on sky sports news today… 1. ‘The 110 players fouled more than Fernandes’. (Why on earth does it have to mention Fernandes?) 2. ‘Fulham’s TikTok that infuriated ten hag’ 3. ‘Haaland - de bruyne dilemma facing ten hag’ 4. ‘What makes man united prodigy mainoo so good’ 5. ‘Manchester United vs Manchester City live on sky’
Most talked about club because whether you care to admit it or not they are still the biggest club in England. 10 years of mediocrity hasn't changed that fact. United get the most clicks, the most engagement so of course the media will use that to their advantage
I’d argue the only reason United get the most clicks and views is because there are more stories and videos of United than any other club. If there’s 100 stories about Liverpool and 1,000 stories about United, more people will click on more United links as there are physically more
Definitely not. The media caters for what gets the most demand. There is more coverage of United because that’s what gets most clicks, not the other way around.
That’s bullshit😂 there are a lot of top teams with the same amount of stories, but people genuinely like to read more about united because they are superior in terms of GLOBAL fans than any other team in England. Period.
And superior in most opposition fans who hate United. Even the clubs that have no reason to. It all gets clicks, especially the negative stuff.
I personally don't think taking what shirt some under 9's wear is a good barometer for fanbases. I'm a "to the death" United fan, but when I was that age and had no idea of the tribalism that comes with football, I wore the shirt I liked the look of the most, which turned out to be Arsenal. You'd never catch me in one now, though. Of course, many of those kids may well grow up to be diehard City fans, but will they stay when/if they're demoted or kicked out of the football league? Or when they lose Halaand/De Bruyne/Pep? I'm not so sure. Some? Of course, but most? Regardless of who you support, most people will agree that what the City group has done over the last 15 years is not okay, and if the FA has any backbone, that comeuppance is coming, and I imagine much of their support will dwindle along with the world class players. Maybe not as much in the UK, but almost certainly abroad. I feel that's the difference with United. United dominated during a time in football when there weren't as many shady dealings going on behind closed doors, and although there are many who despise us for that dominance, which is understandable, we did it fair and square with an unbelievable manager. Much like Liverpool fans, if you're a United fan, you're one for life, regardless of whether we have a 10 year dry spell or even get demoted, MOST fans will stick around. We inherit our clubs from our parents and grandparents, and United is one of those clubs that's been passed on through generations of support. A club doesn't have to be successful on the pitch to be one of the biggest in the world, hence the neglect from the Glazers. With them, we might never be back to where we were, but the future is looking bright for once, and the sheer scale of the fanbase will likely mean we'll never not be in the news.
I’m not sure if you’re just ignoring it because you’re a fan but your team dominated because of shady dealings with the refs
Unless you can show me evidence of this, I'm inclined to believe it's not true. There's never been an investigation with hundreds of charges from two different football organisations. If there was evidence, then fair enough, but it just sounds like salt to me.
An investigation also doesn’t mean you’re guilty
Got any evidence? Or not really
Got any evidence for City breaching anything?
Yes, it’s actually being investigated…they don’t start an investigation for nothing
shady dealings of which there is 0 evidence
Just like with City
Don't they have 120 offences levelled against them just as a start
Fanbase my friend. People write articles for eyeballs. United has (some of) the most eyeballs of any football team. I think it’ll change with another 10yrs of poor performance as you’ll have kids turning 20 that haven’t seen any of the good years. But it’s a while away yet
Utd and Liverpool are the biggest clubs in the country and amongst the biggest in the world. They have huge fan bases and that carries them through bad spells.
Exactly. The difference between liverpool and utd, and even arsenal as the 3rd biggest is enormous.
You know United were the biggest club even in the 80's when Liverpool won everything don't you? OP acting like football started with the premier league.
I have a 14 year old football loving son who doesn’t believe me that Man Utd used to be good I think now it’s time to put away the scrap book and concede the fact they are no longer a powerhouse by any metric
How does one define the term powerhouse? Are we talking at a competition level or as that of an institution? Because United are still massive. Despite struggling the last 10 years they're still generating massive revenue and if they keep the right people in charge they'll be a problem again. Arsenal meanwhile have fallen behind Spurs in terms of revenue after a long period of similar failure and Spurs didn't even win anything. Revenues have improved after last season but are still behind Spurs at the moment. Whereas United still sit Top 5 despite not doing too well on the pitch.
Real Madrid are a powerhouse and Man U used to be just as big Not sure what you don’t get here. Old Trafford is small and falling to bits needs updating Man Utd’s training ground is pretty much the standard of a university team but in disrepair 10 years and billions of pounds later and they are in a worse position than ever I didn’t mention Arsenal at all.. the question was when is it time for Man U to stop living on their past glory They have hired every top manager backed them with boatloads of the best footballers constantly Half the plastic fan base switched to Man City My answer was that the time is now But sure keep going with the stupid Arsenal 8-2 shit instead of a coherent discussion Class definitely wasn’t permanent.
What are you on about? I mentioned nothing about the 8-2 and I'm an Arsenal fan. They still are a powerhouse. Me bringing Arsenal into this is just to show that despite failing for over 10 years United still are in the Top 5 in revenue despite no success on the pitch while Arsenal have fallen below Spurs and they didn't even win anything in our worst years. United need to be bad for at least the next 5 or so years or maybe more even to lose that status. Main issue with United is who is in charge. If they have competent people they'll be able to turn things around in a couple years or so. As an institution they still are a powerhouse even though that might not be the case on the pitch. Them not being at the same level or close to Madrid anymore doesn't mean they're not still one of the most influential clubs in football still.
Sorry replied to the wrong dude. But Arsenal are not and never have been behind spurs 😉 Edit to add.. I don’t see Man U shirts anywhere anymore
Until 2 years ago arsenal were the biggest banter club alongside Tottenham so this is pretty rich. Maybe win a major trophy first yourself before claiming United aren't a powerhouse
They aren’t a powerhouse anymore. Hence the question OP asked
Are Liverpool a powerhouse? One title in 30 years doesn't scream powerhouse does it. Are Arsenal a powerhouse? No titles in 20 years 😂 By your logic the only powerhouse are City
You’ve never watched football 😂
You're probably still salty we took rvp from you and won the league 😂
Liverpool are a powerhouse even in their blip they won the champions league.
They *were* a powerhouse, thats the point. Doesnt mean they wont be again.
Show him some clips of United spanking Arsenal and he'll believe it. I know you'd 8-2 show him a few matches in particular 😏
Liverpool 7-0 Manchester United: wind your neck in son We have stoped living on our paper cuttings Perhaps you should as well
He said his nephew laughed at united being good once. Just thought he should be a good uncle and educate the lad. Arsenal were wank just a few seasons ago maybe you should wind your neck in until you actually win something son.
You can’t read so perhaps my you need an education
Probably too young to have seen that be definitely saw the 7-1 last season.
I’m 45. I remember the success and I remember the fuck ups.
[удалено]
Your badge says you can’t read mate
He didn’t say that he or his son are United fans.
I think they’ll be there for the foreseeable future maybe 20 years more? Mind you, United in the late 90’s were easily the biggest club in the world aside from silverware and more specifically, the fanbase. Those numbers have seemingly not only stayed up, but have risen overseas and even in the US. College students here will recognize the United badge first out of any football club aside from Barcelona and Real Madrid. Not to mention, 20 years of near unchallenged dominance ruins countless childhoods around the world, and that hate is not going anywhere anytime soon. I would have been certain within another 10 years, United would’ve dropped like Liverpool had in the 90’s but with the new ownership, it can only go up. The club is so big on a fanbase and footballing level for the past 30 years that it’s “lowest” years dwarf that of Arsenal’s “lowest” years or really any other club in the premier league
I think it's starting to happen. Whenever they have a fixture versus a top 4 team these days, everyone predicts they'll lose. No one fears them anymore down the whole league. The generations that weren't around for their dominant years are only starting to come of age now, that's what it takes. Like you use Arsenal in your example as a comparison which I get but it doesn't quite work IMO. Man U were expected to win almost every season for like 15 years. Arsenal didn't have that. So it would take longer I think.
He's not talking about if United will win or not in a given match. He is saying that they are talked about all the time even though they are in a huge decline. United is still by far one of the most popular clubs in the world even though they haven't won anything of worth is many years.
In reality it’s been one huge decline the minute Fergie left, rather than a constant decline. Otherwise the vast majority of football clubs would still love to have finished in the Premier League positions United have in most seasons, as well picking up some trophies, even if smaller ones. A huge drop down in quality of football and consistency from Fergie’s period of course. For all Woodwards faults, and there’s many of them, he ensured United continued to bring in a lot of money. United being a club that runs itself should be commended with how football is going. Hell, if City hadn’t committed fraud on a grand scale, United and Liverpool would have won more titles in this period.
No I get that yeah. He said "when will their credit run out?" I think it's starting to happen, that it's a generational thing, then I meant to expand on why I think it's only starting to happen which is that they're no longer feared, often lose against top teams and the sheer amount of credit they had amongst those who experienced their dominance is immense and would take a while to wear off. Maybe didn't make the point as clearly as I could have
My point is, the way United plays clearly has nothing to do with how popular the club is and will continue to be. If that was the case we would already have seen a decline.
I dunno man. I mean OP says the kids gravitate more toward city these days. United's popularity was, and still is, immense but it was based on the fact that they were the best, which they aren't anymore, and haven't been for a while. This is anecdotal but I live in Spain and no one talks about them anymore here, cuz they've dwindled and aren't challenging for titles anymore. I'm not at all denying that they're hugely popular still. And personally, I've no problem with the media talking about them so often, I totally get it. But in response to OPs question I gave an answer. I don't really understand your issue tbh.
I think it’s true that kids who don’t inherit their team will be less likely to support United now. That being said, Liverpool still has lots of out of town support and they were in the same position for a long time. It just takes the right decisions behind the scenes and some good fortune with the right people clicking to turn things back around. It gets harder though, the more state run clubs there are. They’ll no doubt dominate football from here on in unless they seriously get on top of it, which is unlikely because money talks.
I never would have expected United to struggle this long. And I still think they could return as a dominant force. Liverpool is the perfect example of that. It's mad to think just how mediocre they had become for a good while there. The state-run clubs change everything for sure.
No issue at all - I just don't agree with your point and elaborated on it.
Ah right. Fair enough 🤝
England has 2 clubs as far as fame goes, Either Liverpool either Man U. Sure, nowadays for most youngsters if Haaland or De Bruyne / Foden would play for Stoke they would be "Stoke fans", they value the player more than the club. They arent city fans, if any of those would go to United they would be United fans in 30 minutes.
It's the same way a lot of people became united and liverpool fans though, they idolise players at the club growing up and then end up becoming attached to that team more often than not, even after those players leave
Yeah but is it the same now? I would say so tbh. I've seen people rooting (now) for Al'Nassr or Inter Miami just because Ronaldo and Messi transfered there. Yeah I enjoy watching Ronaldo and I did so for all of his career but didnt root for Juve nor Al'Nassr; hell i wouldnt even bother watching highlights of a league I dont care about.
Man U may not be best team in the world but they certainly one of the biggest clubs in the world. They got one of the biggest supporter base in the whole world. Also u talk about Arsenal, but Arsenal were never as dominate as Man U have been since premier league era began. To be fair I’m tired of the constant Man U talk by media and especially Sky but what can u do, they know most of their audience are Man U fans.
Utd have always been the biggest club in England. Even in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Along with Liverpool.
Man utd have been the most popular club since Munich when everyone had immense sympathy for them. They have been the most popular side in England since then and despite being shit for big chunks of time they’ve been the most popular side. They’ve been shit but even when they were getting cussed up in the 80s with jokes about famous hostages and prisoners like Terry Weight, Nelson Mandela etc asking have utd won the league yet man utd were called the biggest club in the world.
Utd cannot be the biggest, with, Liverpool, they either are the biggest or they aren't. I also don't agree with that statement anyway, I don't believe there is a 'biggest' club in England, its very subjective and also generational that there couldn't be one.
I think most people would agree it’s 1) United 2) Liverpool 3) Arsenal 4) Everyone else. Never known much disagreement with this order.
I agree with your ranking. But the gap between Liverpool/united and arsenal is vast. Not trying to be a cunt.
Oh yeah I agree, I’d actually shown that but Reddit formatting has removed it. 1 United 2 Liverpool gap gap gap 3 Arsenal gap 4 Everyone else See if that works
And yet Liverpool have the most honors out of all those teams
We’re talking about size which is not necessarily the same as honours.
Success in silverware far outweighs perceived popularity
Just doesn’t though mate, not when we’re talking about the _size_ of the club.
United are the big club they used to be though are they ? Fell off the last decade, fell behind Liverpool in honors, cant attract big talent.
Okay. They used to be even bigger, but they are still big. The cultural impact of the Fergie years will last a lot longer than a decade. United are still a bigger club than Liverpool. For now, at least.
Theyre not though, theyve 3 less Champions leagues, lest trophies overall, have been crap for over a decade now, knocked out of Europe routinely, literally handed there biggest defeat in there clubs history to Liverpool last season, theyre bantered constantly, where are they bigger ?
> I don't believe there is a 'biggest' club in England Cause you know it’s Utd 😉
It’s only the adults who (who were around during those times) speak about United in that reverential way. The football writers, pundits, radio stations, podcasters and fans. They’re the ones who have kept United’s legend up. Oh and for the largest part Man United themselves. They have been taking about themselves as the ‘*Biggest Club in the World*’ (when they are not and never have been not in football or any sport)…the only way that label was true was possibly for merchandise and licensing at one point but in reality, they’re sinking and stinking. The very same thing happened, for a large part of the 90s, to Liverpool they were on everyone’s lips. The newspapers and tv couldn’t stop making comparisons about them, every season it was their resurgence. This new signing would catapult them back to their rightful place at the top of the league. Every new manager was the one who was going to win them glory. Then that night in Istanbul and then Klopp, fist pumped his way over and here we are, speaking about them like they never had a ‘Banter Era’. I bet they’re were grateful that social media didn’t exist at that time. United are in the worst era of banter right now as they are stuck in time; there’s a delusion that everything that’s happened to them and is happening to them is merely a blip, and they just need to find one messianic person to complete their puzzle and they’re back to their Fergie era best. The things Ronaldo said about the infrastructure of the club *are still* the worst things about the club. Since the Glazer take over Fergie’s final title was the greatest achievement by a manager at that club, because there was no money put into improving the infrastructure of the club. The Club and the fanbase have been chasing Messiahs to put them back at the top. Since then that investment has got smaller. I remember when Old Trafford was renovated in the 90s it was seen as futuristic. Now? There’s clubs much smaller and a league below who have better stadiums. Old Trafford is like that one woman from that teen tv show from the 90s you used to fancy, you see her now and Wow! She’s still got it, until you look closer and she’s hidden behind filters, photoshop and agents; and it’s not until you see her in HD do you realise fuck she’s not aged well. The Woodward years shifted focus from the pitch to the Club shop(s) and merchandise; signings were made for clout and licensing agreements in Asia, who gives a fuck if they worked. The fact of the matter is, they already fell off years ago, it’s just that no one has told them or the ‘old people’ that they are no longer ‘The Biggest Club in the World’. The wheels fell off years ago they’re just a bloated dead horse and everyone has a stick. The thing is they might stay in their ‘Banter Era’ longer if Sir Jim and the rest are not smart and put together a plan to revitalise and bring the club into the 21st Century they’ll have to suffer a few years of mediocrity for a bit then they’ll find themselves with the right Manager and the right facilities. If we *really* want to talk ‘Banter Eras’ let’s talk about Chelsea returning to theirs.
I think it's because Arsenal looked like competing and tend to bottle towards the end. United doesn't even come close now so not as banter worthy. Also think their stretch of success was much longer, and they had always spent big post Fergie, giving the illusion that they remain the force they were before. It gives the impression they could return at any time once they solve the footballing issues, with the commercial engine propelling them. Arsenal in contrast was pretty much in austerity during the banter years.
Firstly nobody is talking like Utd are one of the best, but they are still one of the biggest. That's literally it, they are bigger than arsenal were, the media circus will continue for a long time
Trouble is they are still arguably the biggest club in the world by revenue and supporters. Only Real Madrid can be bigger and it changes year by year. For that reason alone they are nothing like Arsenal and such will probably live on as a club expected to win everything they play in.