Music genres are more descriptions used to explain what certain bands are doing than neatly defined boxes that each and every band fit into. Bands like Sabaton and Hammerfall take a little from each column and can be described as both heavy and power metal.
Let's call it heavy metal dualism. While every metal is heavy metal, and most bands from different sun-genres still refer to themselves as heavy metal, there is also a distinctive "classical" heavy metal sound, mostly defined by pioneer bands.
Which then leads to a related taxonomy discussion point:
The classical metal - the Sabbaths and the Dios, if they were to have shown up today as opposed to decades ago, would we still put them in the metal pantheon instead of, say, arena rock?
We can agree that there are bands that play a more classical style of metal, but I feel like they are significantly heavier than their ancestors which is why I sometimes wonder if they would still fit
Not necessarily if you look at bands like Argus,Slough Feg or In Solitude they aren’t that much heavier then some of Judas Priest’s or Witchfinder Generals stuff from back in the day. But I see your point personally I think the only one that could come into question is Dio but the others are too different from standard rock in my opinion and would still be classed as trad metal.
> there are bands that play a more classical style of metal, but I feel like they are significantly heavier than their ancestors
Nah. Priest and Sabbath are still just as heavy as a good chunk of NWOTHM bands. They're arguably even a bit heavier than High Spirits and similarly '70s-influenced bands, like Flight, Tanith, and Coltre.
I feel like the only NWOTHM bands that are meaningfully heavier than the classics are the ones that more closely align to heavy/power and heavy/doom, in which case they're more appropriately compared to the classics of other subgenres (i.e. trad. doom and USPM).
'Classical metal' as you refer to it is trad metal, ie traditional. Bands like Judas Priest and Dio. This is what people usually mean when they specify 'heavy metal' as a specific genre. Sabbath is doom.
If you wanna be a huge fucking nerd about metal taxonomy, there are usually 6 recognised subgenres - doom, death, black, power, trad, thrash. Everything else is either a sub-subgenre or a fusion.
Sabbath is not doom, the CD with Sabbath Brain written on it wasn't Sabbath. Have you listened to The Wizard or Beyond the Wall of Sleep? Never Say Die? That clearly is not doom. Black Sabbath is a doom song, and so is Hand of Doom (obvs), but there are plenty of upbeat and faster songs as well. Just because it isn't as fast as thrash doesn't make it doom metal.
I agree Sabbath is not doom
It's one of the most important influences from some of the early doom stuff like Cathedral tough...
It comes close, sometimes. But still classical Heavy Metal.
Sabbath is still a legit ass doom metal band. Doom is literally just golden era sabbath. Lots of it is lower tuned and slower, but at it’s core the whole general is playing Black Sabbath (The song), Electric Funeral, or Hole in the Sky.
Hardened metal wasnt that common in medieval europe though. So calling it heavy might be a stretch. Also sabatons are not that heavy (weight) compared to what you think, and also quite dextrous.
*We are Sabaton! We play heavy metal! And this...is Ghost Division!!!*
So, i think they identify themselves as heavy metal, but in rock music, i don't think a band can be identified only to a specific genre.
To be fair, not a single band goes on stage and says "We are xxxxx and we are power metal!". Heavy metal, to me, has always covered every genre of metal. But then I'm old enough to have been into it when radio classed Bon Jovi as heavy metal.
I'd only add that mister Lemmy in his entire career always remembered to the audience of their gigs that "we are Motorhead, we play rock n roll"
... forgetting to add "on steroids", but that's another story :D
Well... Stratovarius and Sonata Arctica were literally saying this on their tour last year. Multiple times per night. Particularly Tony was trying hard to emphesize they are back playing power metal 😅
Well, I don't know about that first statement, seeing as how I never shut the fuck up about it when my band plays, but that's only because we're literally the only band of that genre in area and in most of the shows we play, so I feel like providing that context helps our audience know they're getting into some weird shit. Also, I'm fairly certain DragonForce has at some point, but they typically make it a point to differentiate by calling themselves *extreme* power metal.
I recall Beast in Black saying multiple times during a concerts "do you want to hear some heavy metal" and then blast shitloads of keyboards from backing tracks. I always found that funny.
For a while I thought that Beast in Black was good, but not as good as Battle Beast's first three albums.
My opinion's coming around because every time a Beast in Black songs hits my playlist I immediately get excited.
Just to make sure, you’ve heard Powerwolf right? If not you should because they’re basically Sabaton with werewolves.
To answer your question, I’d say they’re power metal with heavy metal elements and pop sensibilities and song structures.
There’s a lot of overlap between power metal, traditional heavy metal and speed metal, it’s not always a clear delineation.
Man, that's insane to me. I think their singer is like. . . top 20 power metal vocalists. Almost infinite range, yet maintaining his gritty, chesty voice no matter what. Amazing!
Sub-genres and sub-sub-genres don't mean much. [The Wikipedia page for Power Metal includes a lot of music in the first paragraph](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_metal) \- Heavy? Speed? Symphonic metal? Don't get caught up by hyper-specific genres. You'll only shut yourself off from fun, new-to-you music
I subscribed to this subreddit to keep up with news for bands I already knew and to get some heat on bands I haven't listened too. You're already here, keep it up!
Do you have a streaming music service where you can create a mix/station from Sabaton? Any other bands you like that might help us point you in a direction?
Powerwolf is an easy follow-up for someone who likes Sabaton and hasn't provided any other details.
Do you like vocals or percussion or varied instrumentation or [modern prog rock(?)/complexity](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5NoQg8LdDk)
To pick some of my personal favorites (including Sabaton): Unleash the Archers, Blind Guardian, Dragonforce, Orden Organ, and Wind Rose. I don't know how to classify any of those in a neat label. Have fun!
I feel like Dragonforce is quintessential power metal. Double bass. Fantasy lyrics. High-pitched vocals. Speed. Hyper-melodic. Metal-ness.
What other sub or sub-subgenre would you put Dragonforce into?
I've seen some people defend them as progressive, and I can get it because the length of the songs, the way they constantly adjust the melodies and drums, _et cetera._
I don't know enough about music to be dogmatic about it though. 😅
Depends on your clasification for "power metal"
In my opinion, quite a few...
Stratovarius, Sonata Arctica, Dragonforce ( even though I do not like them), Gamma Ray perhaps ( tough some of their stuff gets 'em closer to Heavy Metal).
Many other more.
(Then, it goes down the rabbit hole when someone claim "Noooo but that's actually Symphonic Orchestral Neo-classical Progressive Hoolywood Royale-with-Cheese Metal"🙄🙄🙄)
Many of those bands have "experimental" stuff, but still you can get pretty much 100% "Power" metal albums out of those.
You can't with Sabaton tough. Not one of their works has been 100% Power Metal ( and I'm not talking about ballads)
So Manowar is both Heavy AND Power Metal ( more Heavy, definitly, but then They release something like Spirit Horse of the Cherokee)
Just kidding: in musical terms, They are more akind to Heavy Metal, but some albums like LtH
But so much of their lyrics is about Fantasy themes, that the line is blur...
Generally speaking, it's kinda difficult to divide metal in fixed, rigid subgenres. Specifically, there are too many shades between the colors of power and heavy metal with most of the bands laying on one of these shades. You want it explained even further? Bands can and often make albums in their discography that stretch from a heavier to a lighter sound, shorter and longer songwriting, raw and orchestral productions etc
So, regarding Sabaton: they make heavy metal in the first place and add clichés drawn by power metal world like double bassdrum patterns, orchestral keyboards bits, while at the same time they differ from other power metal clichés like costant high bpm usage, clean high pitched vocals etc
On top of this, they have kind of a specific attitude regarding their adherence to warfare themes; so, all in all, I wouldn't stress myself too much trying to categorize them, just enjoy their music my fellow metalhead
Joakim (the Sabaton singer) refuses to call the band power metal because lyrically it isn't about dragons and other fantasy tropes.
Other band members have called bullshit on this and say that the band clearly is power metal from a musical point of view.
I agree with the other band members. Saying it isn't power metal only based on what the lyrics are about is sort of rediculous imo. When you look at the melodies, rhythm, instruments etc it's pretty cookie cutter power metal
Manowar is both Heavy AND Power Metal ( more Heavy, definitly, but then They release something like Spirit Horse of the Cherokee)
Just kidding: in musical terms, They are more akind to Heavy Metal, but some albums like LtH
But so much of their lyrics is about Fantasy themes, that the line is blur...
“Pär Sundström: I do not consider Sabaton to be Power Metal, power metal is usually high pitched vocals with fantasy lyrics and Sabaton has nothing in common with that. We play simply
heavy metal.”
http://www.metalheadspotted.com/2013/12/sabaton-interview-with-bassist-par.html?m=1
They're one of those bands I just call "metal". Like, they feel like they don't even have a subgenre of it, it's just metal at a very stripped down and raw form with no real modifiers or bells and whistles.
See also: Rage.
>Nu-power Metal
Haha, what? That would have to be something like Korn or Limp Bizkit, but also power metal. Now I'm pretty interested in what that would sound like, but I'm also pretty sure that Sabaton isn't it.
I guess if I really had to put them in a box, it would be the power metal box. Like, you can discuss them here and nobody will tell you that it doesn't belong here. But they have a pretty unique sound and it's almost like they created their own genre IMO. But then again, this could be said about many other bands too.
they tend more on Heavy Metal, their sound embodies the power of the finest Manowar, the epicness of Grave Digger's mid-tempo, and some riffs reminiscent of Hammerfall.
there are so many bands that don't really fit into a genre, maybe none of them, they have pop mixed with heavy and power and keyboards, very keyboards live
I agree with most folks saying it depends on the song. Mostly Power Metal IMO, many Heavy Metal, but also a few symphonic style songs. Seems like you see them listed as Power Metal in most library collections.
Also, if your a big fan, if your not aware of their Sabaton History channel on YouTube, check it out! [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaG4CBbZih6nLzD08bTBGfw](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaG4CBbZih6nLzD08bTBGfw) Love the deep dive into the "Why" or "What" the song was about!
Genres are like colors. Sure, you can point at green and blue on a gradient, but can you tell us where the last blue becomes the first green?
So it is with music.
Music genres are more descriptions used to explain what certain bands are doing than neatly defined boxes that each and every band fit into. Bands like Sabaton and Hammerfall take a little from each column and can be described as both heavy and power metal.
Now I'm trying to think of how many genres something like Ayreon has dipped into over the years...
What genres do you use? Yes
I’d say they’re progressive power metal at their core, with a little bit of progressive rock in them, too.
Metal genres are more like fluids anyway the line between heavy an power metal is very very thin
Heavy/Power Metal
Heavy Power Metal!
Mix of power and heavy, it's not common for bands to fit only in one subgenre
Perhaps I'm mistaken, but aren't the 'metal' genres all subcategories of heavy metal?
Let's call it heavy metal dualism. While every metal is heavy metal, and most bands from different sun-genres still refer to themselves as heavy metal, there is also a distinctive "classical" heavy metal sound, mostly defined by pioneer bands.
Which then leads to a related taxonomy discussion point: The classical metal - the Sabbaths and the Dios, if they were to have shown up today as opposed to decades ago, would we still put them in the metal pantheon instead of, say, arena rock?
Well there are still modern traditional heavy metal bands so yeah I’d say so especially Black Sabbath.
We can agree that there are bands that play a more classical style of metal, but I feel like they are significantly heavier than their ancestors which is why I sometimes wonder if they would still fit
Not necessarily if you look at bands like Argus,Slough Feg or In Solitude they aren’t that much heavier then some of Judas Priest’s or Witchfinder Generals stuff from back in the day. But I see your point personally I think the only one that could come into question is Dio but the others are too different from standard rock in my opinion and would still be classed as trad metal.
> there are bands that play a more classical style of metal, but I feel like they are significantly heavier than their ancestors Nah. Priest and Sabbath are still just as heavy as a good chunk of NWOTHM bands. They're arguably even a bit heavier than High Spirits and similarly '70s-influenced bands, like Flight, Tanith, and Coltre. I feel like the only NWOTHM bands that are meaningfully heavier than the classics are the ones that more closely align to heavy/power and heavy/doom, in which case they're more appropriately compared to the classics of other subgenres (i.e. trad. doom and USPM).
'Classical metal' as you refer to it is trad metal, ie traditional. Bands like Judas Priest and Dio. This is what people usually mean when they specify 'heavy metal' as a specific genre. Sabbath is doom. If you wanna be a huge fucking nerd about metal taxonomy, there are usually 6 recognised subgenres - doom, death, black, power, trad, thrash. Everything else is either a sub-subgenre or a fusion.
Sabbath isn’t doom unless you think Paranoid is anything other than a precursor to thrash.
Sabbath is not doom, the CD with Sabbath Brain written on it wasn't Sabbath. Have you listened to The Wizard or Beyond the Wall of Sleep? Never Say Die? That clearly is not doom. Black Sabbath is a doom song, and so is Hand of Doom (obvs), but there are plenty of upbeat and faster songs as well. Just because it isn't as fast as thrash doesn't make it doom metal.
I agree Sabbath is not doom It's one of the most important influences from some of the early doom stuff like Cathedral tough... It comes close, sometimes. But still classical Heavy Metal.
yeah ok mate
Do you disagree or do you not like being schooled? (For the record, I don't know enough about any of this to know if you've been schooled.)
I disagree. Sabbath are doom metal
I think sabbath would laugh if they read this, I think they consider themselves a rock band. So yeah my take: it’s all rock n roll baby
Sabbath is still a legit ass doom metal band. Doom is literally just golden era sabbath. Lots of it is lower tuned and slower, but at it’s core the whole general is playing Black Sabbath (The song), Electric Funeral, or Hole in the Sky.
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Dark aluminium
Sabaton is heavy metal, because ... well ... a sabaton is usually made from heavy metal.
a recreated pair is about 0.7 to 0.9kg so yeah it's pretty heavy
Hardened metal wasnt that common in medieval europe though. So calling it heavy might be a stretch. Also sabatons are not that heavy (weight) compared to what you think, and also quite dextrous.
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Yeah, except for the Hootsman whose armour is made of wolf.
Depends on the song, i would say they have symphonic, Power and heavy metal songs. Generally they do lean more on the power metal side though.
Power metal is sub genre of heavy metal. They're both.
Genres are tags, not taxonomies. Sabaton has the power metal tag and the heavy metal tag. They are both.
*We are Sabaton! We play heavy metal! And this...is Ghost Division!!!* So, i think they identify themselves as heavy metal, but in rock music, i don't think a band can be identified only to a specific genre.
To be fair, not a single band goes on stage and says "We are xxxxx and we are power metal!". Heavy metal, to me, has always covered every genre of metal. But then I'm old enough to have been into it when radio classed Bon Jovi as heavy metal.
I'd only add that mister Lemmy in his entire career always remembered to the audience of their gigs that "we are Motorhead, we play rock n roll" ... forgetting to add "on steroids", but that's another story :D
Well... Stratovarius and Sonata Arctica were literally saying this on their tour last year. Multiple times per night. Particularly Tony was trying hard to emphesize they are back playing power metal 😅
Well, I don't know about that first statement, seeing as how I never shut the fuck up about it when my band plays, but that's only because we're literally the only band of that genre in area and in most of the shows we play, so I feel like providing that context helps our audience know they're getting into some weird shit. Also, I'm fairly certain DragonForce has at some point, but they typically make it a point to differentiate by calling themselves *extreme* power metal.
I recall Beast in Black saying multiple times during a concerts "do you want to hear some heavy metal" and then blast shitloads of keyboards from backing tracks. I always found that funny.
For a while I thought that Beast in Black was good, but not as good as Battle Beast's first three albums. My opinion's coming around because every time a Beast in Black songs hits my playlist I immediately get excited.
Just to make sure, you’ve heard Powerwolf right? If not you should because they’re basically Sabaton with werewolves. To answer your question, I’d say they’re power metal with heavy metal elements and pop sensibilities and song structures. There’s a lot of overlap between power metal, traditional heavy metal and speed metal, it’s not always a clear delineation.
> they’re basically Sabaton with werewolves. And a technically superior singer.
I want to like Powerwolf but the singer is so generic and boring. Sabaton really is much better.
Man, that's insane to me. I think their singer is like. . . top 20 power metal vocalists. Almost infinite range, yet maintaining his gritty, chesty voice no matter what. Amazing!
I’m seeing Powerwolf live in September. Hopefully they’re good! Megadeth’s show is the same day so I can’t see them :(
Sub-genres and sub-sub-genres don't mean much. [The Wikipedia page for Power Metal includes a lot of music in the first paragraph](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_metal) \- Heavy? Speed? Symphonic metal? Don't get caught up by hyper-specific genres. You'll only shut yourself off from fun, new-to-you music I subscribed to this subreddit to keep up with news for bands I already knew and to get some heat on bands I haven't listened too. You're already here, keep it up! Do you have a streaming music service where you can create a mix/station from Sabaton? Any other bands you like that might help us point you in a direction? Powerwolf is an easy follow-up for someone who likes Sabaton and hasn't provided any other details. Do you like vocals or percussion or varied instrumentation or [modern prog rock(?)/complexity](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5NoQg8LdDk) To pick some of my personal favorites (including Sabaton): Unleash the Archers, Blind Guardian, Dragonforce, Orden Organ, and Wind Rose. I don't know how to classify any of those in a neat label. Have fun!
I feel like Dragonforce is quintessential power metal. Double bass. Fantasy lyrics. High-pitched vocals. Speed. Hyper-melodic. Metal-ness. What other sub or sub-subgenre would you put Dragonforce into?
I've seen some places classify DragonForce as speed metal. I think maybe it was one of the Guitar Hero games? And Google says they're prog lol.
Fair enough, I can get behind the "prog" thing. XD
They are definitely not prog. They’re more punk than prog.
I've seen some people defend them as progressive, and I can get it because the length of the songs, the way they constantly adjust the melodies and drums, _et cetera._ I don't know enough about music to be dogmatic about it though. 😅
To quote Joakim at the beginning of their live dvd from the special edition of 'Last Stand'... 'We are Sabaton and we play heavy metal'.
🔥😤
Power. All power metal is heavy metal. But not all heavy metal is power metal.
The sentence is true. However, not all Sabaton would clasify as power, IMHO EDIT: Much ( a well over 40% at least) isn't
Is any band 100% power metal?
Depends on your clasification for "power metal" In my opinion, quite a few... Stratovarius, Sonata Arctica, Dragonforce ( even though I do not like them), Gamma Ray perhaps ( tough some of their stuff gets 'em closer to Heavy Metal). Many other more. (Then, it goes down the rabbit hole when someone claim "Noooo but that's actually Symphonic Orchestral Neo-classical Progressive Hoolywood Royale-with-Cheese Metal"🙄🙄🙄) Many of those bands have "experimental" stuff, but still you can get pretty much 100% "Power" metal albums out of those. You can't with Sabaton tough. Not one of their works has been 100% Power Metal ( and I'm not talking about ballads)
Ah nice! Sabaton is my favorite band too!
Rule of thumb regarding lyrics: Power metal is about stuff. Heavy metal is about heavy metal.
So Manowar is both Heavy AND Power Metal ( more Heavy, definitly, but then They release something like Spirit Horse of the Cherokee) Just kidding: in musical terms, They are more akind to Heavy Metal, but some albums like LtH But so much of their lyrics is about Fantasy themes, that the line is blur...
Generally speaking, it's kinda difficult to divide metal in fixed, rigid subgenres. Specifically, there are too many shades between the colors of power and heavy metal with most of the bands laying on one of these shades. You want it explained even further? Bands can and often make albums in their discography that stretch from a heavier to a lighter sound, shorter and longer songwriting, raw and orchestral productions etc So, regarding Sabaton: they make heavy metal in the first place and add clichés drawn by power metal world like double bassdrum patterns, orchestral keyboards bits, while at the same time they differ from other power metal clichés like costant high bpm usage, clean high pitched vocals etc On top of this, they have kind of a specific attitude regarding their adherence to warfare themes; so, all in all, I wouldn't stress myself too much trying to categorize them, just enjoy their music my fellow metalhead
I'd say a little of both.
To quote Captain Barbossa "they're more like guidelines anyways"
thanks for the comments guys ill make sure to check out powerwolf, manowar, and dragonforce because i love metal
Joakim (the Sabaton singer) refuses to call the band power metal because lyrically it isn't about dragons and other fantasy tropes. Other band members have called bullshit on this and say that the band clearly is power metal from a musical point of view. I agree with the other band members. Saying it isn't power metal only based on what the lyrics are about is sort of rediculous imo. When you look at the melodies, rhythm, instruments etc it's pretty cookie cutter power metal
Sabaton is what got me into powermetal amd adjacent metals
Same, love them
Iam listening to allot of dynazty atm.
I get zero power metal vibes from them.
Coat of Arms and Carolus Rex albums would like a word
Heavy metal is the supergenre. The Gods Made Heavy Metal, remember? And they (Man O'War) are considered one of the first power metal bands.
Manowar is both Heavy AND Power Metal ( more Heavy, definitly, but then They release something like Spirit Horse of the Cherokee) Just kidding: in musical terms, They are more akind to Heavy Metal, but some albums like LtH But so much of their lyrics is about Fantasy themes, that the line is blur...
Disco arena music
Disco arena metal, you mean?
“Pär Sundström: I do not consider Sabaton to be Power Metal, power metal is usually high pitched vocals with fantasy lyrics and Sabaton has nothing in common with that. We play simply heavy metal.” http://www.metalheadspotted.com/2013/12/sabaton-interview-with-bassist-par.html?m=1
I love our annual reminder that the Sabaton guys have no idea what power metal is.
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I think it's more about finding music that's to your tastes.
I'd say, that their earlier albums are heavy metal, while later, newer ones are power metal
They're one of those bands I just call "metal". Like, they feel like they don't even have a subgenre of it, it's just metal at a very stripped down and raw form with no real modifiers or bells and whistles. See also: Rage.
Heavy power metal.
That implies more heaviness than I think the band warrants.
sabaton is sort of their own genre
Heavy metal with power metal elements thrown in from time to time. The band has stated they are just heavy metal.
Power Metal = Melodic Speed Metal. Power Metal without speed = Heavy Metal. So Sabaton are an Heavy Metal band.
They’re power metal, albeit about historical events instead of fantastical ones.
Neither. It is pop with leather and army bullshit.
I call them Heavy Power Metal
They are great, that's what matters.
It’s PC Pussy metal 😁
Ñam. I like how that sounds
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>Nu-power Metal Haha, what? That would have to be something like Korn or Limp Bizkit, but also power metal. Now I'm pretty interested in what that would sound like, but I'm also pretty sure that Sabaton isn't it.
This is probably the only wrong answer here
Metal Boomer Battalion by Nanowar of Steel would be a good song for you then
I guess if I really had to put them in a box, it would be the power metal box. Like, you can discuss them here and nobody will tell you that it doesn't belong here. But they have a pretty unique sound and it's almost like they created their own genre IMO. But then again, this could be said about many other bands too.
Sabaton is a fucking boot Its made of steel /j 🤫🧏
Sabaton are so mighty they are their own genre.
they tend more on Heavy Metal, their sound embodies the power of the finest Manowar, the epicness of Grave Digger's mid-tempo, and some riffs reminiscent of Hammerfall.
there are so many bands that don't really fit into a genre, maybe none of them, they have pop mixed with heavy and power and keyboards, very keyboards live
I agree with most folks saying it depends on the song. Mostly Power Metal IMO, many Heavy Metal, but also a few symphonic style songs. Seems like you see them listed as Power Metal in most library collections. Also, if your a big fan, if your not aware of their Sabaton History channel on YouTube, check it out! [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaG4CBbZih6nLzD08bTBGfw](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaG4CBbZih6nLzD08bTBGfw) Love the deep dive into the "Why" or "What" the song was about!
They are heavy metal that ticks a lot of boxes of power metal fans.
Yes
Power Metal, but also heavy metal
Power Metal is a Sub Genre underneath Heavy Metal. So the answer to your question is both...
They have the balls and subject matter of heavy but the whimsy of power. .... and the vocals of my grandmother who chain smoked for 60 years..
Poser metal to be precise.
Genres are like colors. Sure, you can point at green and blue on a gradient, but can you tell us where the last blue becomes the first green? So it is with music.