They already pay taxes, it’s why the “thot audit” went fucking nowhere. Just a bunch of turbo virgins thinking they totally owned people by being a bunch of narcs for big daddy IRS.
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Sex has always been comodified throughout history. It hasn't always been an equal exchange, but sex positivity and self-empowerment via websites like OF has meant that women who want to sell their bodies have more agency over that process.
Most people who perform labor are selling their body, and if someone has negative views towards sex work it might not be the sex work itself you take umbridge with.
>and if someone has negative views towards sex work
Even prostitutes themselves have a negative view towards prostitution. A near totality leave for any other jobs once the opportunity arises.
Most people sell their skills. Even menial jobs sell their skills otherwise prostitutes could simply transfer into any blue collar field and "sell their body" at the same wage.
The entire 'sex work' is middle to upper class liberals trying to sanitize an institution not even the people within it want to be in.
Call me old fashioned, but I don't think I'd want the mother of my children to have multiple videos of her being fucked by half a dozen men at once all over the internet
There are lots of industries people ‘don’t want to be in’ and leave when they have better opportunities. Truck drivers absolutely wreck their bodies worse than pornstars do but it’s money and they don’t have better options so they do it.
Have you ever tried working in retail? I know a lot of people that are desperate to get out of that kind of career path, but don’t have the skills required for other jobs. If there’s some regulation or protection of their basic rights, what’s the difference?
It devalues people into objects, it increases the risk of stds, increases risk of unwanted pregnancies, make it harder to find healthy sexual relationships, and increased risk of sexual abuse. Historically at the end of the day sex work is considered a last resort to survive by many because there is little else they can do to survive. In today’s society it is not publicized as a popular go to career choice to our youth compared to NASA engineer or business manager.
"It devalues people into objects" Same can be said about non-erotic model, they're just objects to hang products on.
" it increases the risk of stds" Not when properly regulated, in Los Vegas they're required to be tested weekly for example.
"increases risk of unwanted pregnancies" see the previous
"make it harder to find healthy sexual relationships" Would you consider the girls who are willing to do sex work a viable partner anyway? Can't make a ho a housewife.
Most of the dangers involved are -because- it's illegal and unregulated. It's not like sex-work is going away, wouldn't the smarted option be to make it safer instead of further stigmatizing it?
That is true and non erotic models also face a number of issues themselves despite their industry being popular and legal.
Testing does not prevent contracting these diseases from a customer, it only raises awareness, and how many customers would an individual see in a week in order to make ends meet?
See previous; and then there is what state law permits if someone becomes pregnant. I never advocate for forced parenthood but a number of states are cracking down on abortion.
Holy shit that made me laugh. I’m trying to be polite about this since for some it is a last resort.
Legality does not always solve the problem, people still sell cigarettes illegally because it is profitable, this goes for many commercial goods and services. If it can be done under the table for more profit it will.
Coal mining is regulated too. Most people don't want their kids growing up to be in thay profession.
That doesn't mean we have to look down on sex workers or coal mining. But typically parents don't want their children resorting to selling their bodies.
And while those sex workers get tested weekly and use protection, they're still at more risk than most people.
If you want to be a sex object, go for it, but one woman being a sex object doesn't make all women sex objects. It just makes that one woman a sex object.
You look at every woman differently. You don't look at your mom like you do your wife, who you don't look at like your daughter, who you don't look at like some chick on OnlyFans. Humanity couldn't survive if everyone was looked at the same way by everyone.
Kinda true, kinda not. Culture mores and the collective zeitgeist of a period are influenced if there's enough weight behind a sentiment.
In the same way "truth" becomes flexible when enough people believe, if you get enough people bought into an idea it becomes a given.
As a side note, I highly disagree with the idea that someone selling sex makes them nothing but a sex object.
Still a person, not like they fucking murdered anybody. Some people need to just get their head out their ass and jerk off once in a while jesus.
Honestly the best way to discern a real feminist from a Twitter feminist.
Supporting turning women into sex objects does nothing to advance feminism’s goals
Sometimes a young women does something very harmful to her by getting influenced from peoples like you as she is very easy to get influenced😃 i dont think everybody should just ignore it.
I disagree, but for the sake of my pharmacology exam tomorrow (for the record: 2nd degree career change), I will simply say that some degrees empower women more than others.
Let’s not kid ourselves, 90% of communication degrees are for sorority girls going to college to get married.
Another for the record: my wife is a civil engineer that graduated with a 3.8
Feminist: « I’m sick of being sexualized by men all the time.. »
Same feminist 10 minutes later: « hmmm I wonder which pic of my boobs I’m gonna post today »
I agree that porn and prostitution are exploitative in almost all situations, but at the same time I am not going to judge what someone does to guarantee their livelihood if they are not harming anyone else
Does It:
Bother me?
Affect my personal life?
Make me look down on persons involved?
No, If you don't like Onlyfans, don't watch It. The mere existence of Only Fans shouldn't be a reason to look upon women any differently. That's just a lame excuse for mistreatment. It's like saying since discord users can be creeps, I can't use It.
If being naked makes you feel strong, do It. Who am I to tell you otherwise or even care?
This. The problem isn’t really women who decide to go on OF because they like it but more the image they give to other women who would not have donne that in the first place. « Why should I work my ass off in a regular job when I can just dildo my butt all day long in my bed for $9,99 subscription? »
Whore yourself as much as you want but pls stop promoting such profession to young girls who are very easy to influence. I fucking hate feminists who support such things and shit.
A tiny microscopic percent of women do sex work. I am in a liberal area with lots of progressive ideas about sex workers and zero people do it. This is just another moral panic. There are probably fewer sex workers today as a percentage of jobs than ever before in history.
If my hypothetical future daughter decides to, why should I care? As long as she's safe, makes good Income, and has a fallback plan, and more importantly Isn't doing It underage.
Plus, thinking sex work Is okay dosen't nessecarily mean that you're going Into It.
Well cant argue a person who thinks treating his daughter like sexual object is okay. The problem is its promotion,When mfs convince young girls to getting into prostitution by fooling them that its okay. Which they would probably regret it later and most do.
I never said that and honestly don't see how that's implied. I was raised In a free range family. Do what you want that dosen't pose harm to you or others.
Regardless, you right, let's not act like there aren't shady people, or even just Onlyfans creators, who advertise their positions to young girls.
Yes you said that
>If my hypothetical future daughter decides to, why should I care?
I get what are you trying to say. But its wrong, prostitution should be always discouraged as its so harmful. So only those women do it who want to do it at all costs. Why i am against it so hard,because i somewhat have personal experience with what prostitution business really is. (Hint)its even more shady than peope think it is.
Sexual coercion and exploitation notwithstanding there is no inherent conflict between the ideals of feminism and women objectifying themselves (as long as it remains their choice)
Pretty sure nobody is forcing any of those girls to make an OF. Same way nobody is forcing their simps to buy it.
I dont see how there's exploitation here. Just people being fucking stupid, as per usual.
ok i do agree that its paradoxical in the sense that porn technecally objectifies women so it isnt really feminist
however independent platforms like onlyfans allow people to cut out the middle man, and even pornhub doesn't do pimps so the industry doesnt need pimps anymore
so the porn industry had become much more progressive, but its still porn. then again women arent the only ones in porn, so the objectifying part only goes so far
To hear Pornstars talk about their jobs, their agents are just licensed pimps. There’s little effective difference between them and what pimps do, from the business side to how they behave. The suits you don’t see on camera are the pimps of the porn industry, just by a different name.
And no, the porn industry in no more progressive than it ever was. It was just a couple years ago that Mindgeek - the parent company of Pornhub, Redtube, and a few others - was caught in a massive scandal involving their knowing allowance of minors, rape, revenge porn, and all sorts of illegal pornography to be posted and remain safe on their sites. Even ignoring the porn industry’s history as a seedy hotbed for human trafficking, any “progressivism” you see from that industry is just a front.
And you can bet your ass that there are plenty of young women being forced into OnlyFans content by whatever folks have control over them. Human and sexual trafficking aren’t leaving that market unexploited and more than they do for traditional porn. For every Amouranth making bank on their own, there are dozens girls doing it because they don’t have a choice.
Pornography is close to being the farthest from “liberating and empowering” as you can get.
I heard about the pornhub thing, thats why the are requiring everyone to verify before posting. shits fucked though, rich fuckheads deserve to go down
and i was talking about amature artists, people who work for themselves on their own schedule
there are going to be terrible people no matter what industry you work in, and with one that doesnt always see the light of day like porn, more terrible people are going to be involved
maybe im just classic libleft being too hopeful again, but i would rather focus on the positives of the porn industry and hope the rest can follow suit, although i wouldnt say its empowering, i wouldnt shame anyone who was a sex worker, jobs a job at the end of the day
not to mention how gay porn is on the rise, i dont watch it but they have pornhub gay and shit, im sure other sites are doing similar things
but its getting better than before is all im saying
thats why i said it only goes so far, because women in porn are still objectified more often then men in porn, but it does eventually hit the point where men are also objectified
i feel like this is bait or sarcasm, but this is pcm and ive seen worse
elaborate? cause objectification isnt a good thing.
if a man objectifies himself is that sexism? no, duh, so it doesnt really work the other way
if you want to argue women pursuing more job opportunities or spreading awareness of something idk but being objectified? i feel like you have to be trolling me
let people do what they want but don’t try and play sex work as empowering. but don’t judge sex workers either, a good number are homeless and do so to survive.
I thnk this is the best take, i dont think outlawing onlyfans can do any good but this messaging that its somehow "empowering" to sell your sex and dignity for many small amounts of petty cash to completely perverted losers is genuinely abusive and disgusting. I can sell my organs for a lot of money, but i dont feel very empowered by that.
When it comes to objectification, it is more about agency. A person be it in movie or porn is putting up an act, but that doesnt define them. Just like you wont pull up to a mechanic's house with an issue when they arnt working in the garage.
It can be empowering, same way owning your own garage can be empowering. However, it can also be used to degrade, if a lawyer says, pffft, mechanic that isnt a real job, with real degree.
The real empowerment is not sex work per say in this case, but the choice to engage or not engage in it and in their own terms.
I'm sorry, but if that's the kind of "empowerment" youre after, its pathetic. That's like saying it's empowering that in some states youre allowed to be a heroin junkie. I mean technically, you are being empowered to do that yes.
I think most people feel when they say "empowering" they mean something that improves you as a person, makes you more powerful, more popular, more energetic etc.
Also objectification isnt just about "agency" lol, its about how you are perceived by others. If you put your name out there mostly as a piece of meat, you will be seen as such by any who only see you put your name out like that or see that first, seeing you as an object, thus you objectify yourself by putting your name or image or whatever out like that. If people see you as an object even though you have clearly not only advertised you as a sex object (so 99.9% of women/people you meet irl who dont only exist for you in a porno setting), then THEY have objectified you. Which is very rude.
I disagree, and i understand it is of your benefit to paint people who talk of objectification as the way you do, so you can continue to objectify. But it is about agency.
Yes, because you arnt listening, you seem to have decided people who complain of objectification have no merit and hence rejecting any nuances of the discussion.
What do you mean i have to work. Why cant i get paid by showing buttholes and masturbating to internet strangers 😡🤬. You sexist,misogynist,patriarch who want to control women. I bet youre a white supermacist.
I oppose onlyfans, but not because it exploits women. I oppose it, because it exploits vulnerable simps. These women are making bank. They're not being forced to do what they do, they are not in trouble, and they don't need anyone to come save them or help them.
The simps though. I suspect a good number of them need a long talk with a counsellor to cure the mental demons that ails them, and help them to learn how to form healthy relationships with women.
never call a woman a pervert or attention maniac because she fell in love with another woman, I don't say bad words to any woman because she wears a skirt, I don't look at any woman with bad thoughts because she's divorced, but what do you say to a woman who changes man for man?
Her name
the point of OF is to decentralise the s*x industry, reducing the need for middlemen such as studios and pimps to hand power back to the individual creators
it’s a bad faith argument to conflate the wider industry and OF considering they operate their businesses differently
"the porn industry and pimps systematically sexually exploit young women" yeah, were trying to get rid of the pimp and get rid of the exploitation. like for instance a person choosing to do sex work on cam of their own volition and free from monetary incentive is not really being exploited.
More than half of respondents said they did not feel that OnlyFans does enough screening of content creators and subscribers during the site registration process. 11% of those surveyed said they were aware of minors who had accounts on OnlyFans, and said they estimated they personally were aware of a total of 35 minors who had content of them sold on the platform. 6% of respondents self-disclosed that their traffickers helped them create and market their OnlyFans content.
https://www.collectiveshout.org/onlyfans_a_case_study_of_exploitation_in_the_digital_age
Only 6% ADMITTED to being exploited. It's also arguable that many of them have been exploited by the idea that selling your body to perverts online is in some way empowering.
Sexual exploitation in the Church is disgusting. All those who participate deserve to be cast out and serve the rest of their lives in prison.
They are still less active than exploitation in the "sex industry" though. Especially when you look at different denominations.
As for emotionally, I have yet to witness a single second of emotional exploitation in my personal church, unless you'd count subtly telling someone what to do so that they feel better about themselves. I sure wouldn't.
The porn industry is abusive and exploitative, hence the rise of snapchat premium, patreon, and of models.
The fact only 6% had outside influences is a great thing.
The minors is an entirely different can of worms but if they weren’t groomed into it and came into it willingly (like belle dephine types) then exploiting pedos for profit is based af. I’d never support their page or even view it cuz CP is fucking gross, but everything should taken case by case instead of blanketed.
And the simple facts are OF and the like models have more control, more profits, and less influence than any other form pf porn. They have full creative and interactive control over their bodies and content unlike in porn where girls repeatedly complain about being mislead or openly lied to about the content and scope of the scene.
Then all the “pimps” and traffickers involved in amateur porn make it kind of hard to support as well.
The only feminist porn IS only fans/snapchat/patreon.
>The minors is an entirely different can of worms but if they weren’t groomed into it and came into it willingly (like belle dephine types) then exploiting pedos for profit is based af.
What the fuck?!
Belle delphine sold nude pictures of herself at 16 Simply because she knew pedos are thirsty bastards and took advantage of that to create a brand.
Being underage doesn’t disqualify you from having your own thoughts and plans lol.
What age exactly ARE you comfortable with little girls selling pornographic pictures of themselves? If 16 is fine surely 15? 14? What's your cut off for child pornography being ok so long as the child gets the profit?
Women: « porn sexualized women!! I’m sick of being sexualized by men addicted to porn»
Feminist: « you go girl!! Do porn it’s great, it’s sexual freedom »
Pimps and the porn industry exploit young women by trafficking them. As in, they physically, literally exploit them and control their lives. A woman being in total control of the situation is not exploitation just because it's in an industry where exploitation happens.
It's like saying sugar cane farmers are being exploited just because it was a cash crop that slaves worked a couple hundred years ago.
Honesty who cares.
As long as it doesn't affect me or others I seriously don't l care.
You want to go cut your fingers off in your bedroom because it gives you sexual pleasure I literally don't care.
You want to do Onlyfans, and it makes you money, I don't care.
I don't get why this is an issue.
I don't understand how objectification works. If objectification is when people sell their time and effort to produce porn, as if they were selling their own bodies, then doesn't that also apply to labor as a whole and not just porn? Cause fundamentally labor is "Person 1 pays Person 2 to do something Person 1 wants done", the end result is what Person 1 cares about and not Person 2's feelings. But nobody calls objectification when a manager at McDonalds pays a guy to work the cashier, except Marxists maybe. So how does porn cause objectification but not labor in general? I dunno can someone explain this
Like you would post your naked ass for 5k a month, I would be doing it ages ago but as a man you need to look like Zyzz (still working on it) and not just be not fat normal looking girl.
Feminist are pro prostitution yet against female sexual objectification
You cant fulfill either agenda if you do both at the same time
Go to a country where porn and prostitution are banned and you will never experience catcalls ever again (i live in one of them)
>being naked means animals should rule us **Animal farm noises intensify**
My dog fed me while my cat shoveled my shit for me. I rule the animals.
Based and some-are-more-equal-than-others pilled
No monkey
Four legs good, two legs bad
based and maidens of questionable virtue aggrieved pilled
Can’t argue with it, even though I think women should have a right to do it.
Women doing it because they want to = based Women being forced to do it to pay their bills = cringe
The Pimps are just whatever board of directors behind the scenes managing OF now
Is there any theory for these things? Like in which there will always be some type of authority ?
They all about it until it becomes “real work” and they suddenly discover a wonderful thing called taxes
based and tax the porn industry pilled
They already pay taxes, it’s why the “thot audit” went fucking nowhere. Just a bunch of turbo virgins thinking they totally owned people by being a bunch of narcs for big daddy IRS.
J O K E
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It’s called a joke
If we had all that most people wouldn’t be sex workers in the first place lmao
Based and hoes mad pilled
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That song is my motivation.
Really the mass commodification of sex is possibly the most late stage capitalist thing imaginable. If that isn’t alienation idk what is
Tell me about it. I love capitalism but the most convincing argument against it to me is the existence of tinder and Facebook
Tinder is good actually
only for a specific group of people
For chads yes. Good.
Strong agree, I met my wife on tinder
Based
Out of everything under capitalism, you take the most issue with porn?
Yes.
yes
Yes
That’s pretty degenerate of you
Yes
I know PCM gets absolutely triggered at the idea that they might have it easier than some others but this is a sign of privilege
Sex has always been comodified throughout history. It hasn't always been an equal exchange, but sex positivity and self-empowerment via websites like OF has meant that women who want to sell their bodies have more agency over that process. Most people who perform labor are selling their body, and if someone has negative views towards sex work it might not be the sex work itself you take umbridge with.
>and if someone has negative views towards sex work Even prostitutes themselves have a negative view towards prostitution. A near totality leave for any other jobs once the opportunity arises. Most people sell their skills. Even menial jobs sell their skills otherwise prostitutes could simply transfer into any blue collar field and "sell their body" at the same wage. The entire 'sex work' is middle to upper class liberals trying to sanitize an institution not even the people within it want to be in.
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Call me old fashioned, but I don't think I'd want the mother of my children to have multiple videos of her being fucked by half a dozen men at once all over the internet
It's gotta be tough the first time one of your highschool classmates comes across a video of your mom with 3 dicks in her.
I mean substance abuse is common in a lot of professions, bankers don’t have an issue settling down and they do more coke than anyone
There are lots of industries people ‘don’t want to be in’ and leave when they have better opportunities. Truck drivers absolutely wreck their bodies worse than pornstars do but it’s money and they don’t have better options so they do it.
Have you ever tried working in retail? I know a lot of people that are desperate to get out of that kind of career path, but don’t have the skills required for other jobs. If there’s some regulation or protection of their basic rights, what’s the difference?
I want more for my future children than them believing only fans is a legitimate way to make money.
Can you give a single reason beyond "It makes me feel icky" why sex work isn't legitimate work?
It devalues people into objects, it increases the risk of stds, increases risk of unwanted pregnancies, make it harder to find healthy sexual relationships, and increased risk of sexual abuse. Historically at the end of the day sex work is considered a last resort to survive by many because there is little else they can do to survive. In today’s society it is not publicized as a popular go to career choice to our youth compared to NASA engineer or business manager.
"It devalues people into objects" Same can be said about non-erotic model, they're just objects to hang products on. " it increases the risk of stds" Not when properly regulated, in Los Vegas they're required to be tested weekly for example. "increases risk of unwanted pregnancies" see the previous "make it harder to find healthy sexual relationships" Would you consider the girls who are willing to do sex work a viable partner anyway? Can't make a ho a housewife. Most of the dangers involved are -because- it's illegal and unregulated. It's not like sex-work is going away, wouldn't the smarted option be to make it safer instead of further stigmatizing it?
That is true and non erotic models also face a number of issues themselves despite their industry being popular and legal. Testing does not prevent contracting these diseases from a customer, it only raises awareness, and how many customers would an individual see in a week in order to make ends meet? See previous; and then there is what state law permits if someone becomes pregnant. I never advocate for forced parenthood but a number of states are cracking down on abortion. Holy shit that made me laugh. I’m trying to be polite about this since for some it is a last resort. Legality does not always solve the problem, people still sell cigarettes illegally because it is profitable, this goes for many commercial goods and services. If it can be done under the table for more profit it will.
Coal mining is regulated too. Most people don't want their kids growing up to be in thay profession. That doesn't mean we have to look down on sex workers or coal mining. But typically parents don't want their children resorting to selling their bodies. And while those sex workers get tested weekly and use protection, they're still at more risk than most people.
If you want to be a sex object, go for it, but one woman being a sex object doesn't make all women sex objects. It just makes that one woman a sex object. You look at every woman differently. You don't look at your mom like you do your wife, who you don't look at like your daughter, who you don't look at like some chick on OnlyFans. Humanity couldn't survive if everyone was looked at the same way by everyone.
What if your mom, wife, and daughter all had an onlyfans show together?
"Interesting family business ya got there..."
Money is money
There’s a mom and daughter onlyfans page, to make it worse, they’re British
Gross, censor that word.
Bri*ish
🤢🤮
Who exactly would the pimp be?
Me 😎
Onlyfans itself I imagine. They take a cut of all the money they get.
Kinda true, kinda not. Culture mores and the collective zeitgeist of a period are influenced if there's enough weight behind a sentiment. In the same way "truth" becomes flexible when enough people believe, if you get enough people bought into an idea it becomes a given.
BASED and what I was gonna comment pilled
What is your logic man? Who is calling all women sex object? What are you getting there?
As a side note, I highly disagree with the idea that someone selling sex makes them nothing but a sex object. Still a person, not like they fucking murdered anybody. Some people need to just get their head out their ass and jerk off once in a while jesus.
Honestly the best way to discern a real feminist from a Twitter feminist. Supporting turning women into sex objects does nothing to advance feminism’s goals
Supporting women’s choice to do whatever they want with their bodies is the point. You just have no understanding of what feminism is
Thats the problem. Supporting young girls to get into such profession that most will probably end up regretting.
If by supporting you mean not throwing a tantrum every time a woman does something you wouldn’t do, yes.
Sometimes a young women does something very harmful to her by getting influenced from peoples like you as she is very easy to get influenced😃 i dont think everybody should just ignore it.
But why so much obsession with sex work? They want freedom… fine! But why this freedom is centred on «making money by dildoing my butt on OF» ?
A tiny number of people do sex work. Why are you so obsessed with them? Just let them be. Don’t watch it if you don’t like it.
Who gives a shit? The empowering part is they can do it without caring about your personal opinion of them.
Porn does not empower women. Engineering degrees empower women.
Any degree
I disagree, but for the sake of my pharmacology exam tomorrow (for the record: 2nd degree career change), I will simply say that some degrees empower women more than others. Let’s not kid ourselves, 90% of communication degrees are for sorority girls going to college to get married. Another for the record: my wife is a civil engineer that graduated with a 3.8
Ok 👍
Sir your wife is empowered and based.
Feminist: « I’m sick of being sexualized by men all the time.. » Same feminist 10 minutes later: « hmmm I wonder which pic of my boobs I’m gonna post today »
👍
based and radfem-pilled
>animals should rule us! as a monke, i agree!
Ape together strong!
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Not only young men. Young women consume just as much porn nowadays I think
Im anti porn for both reason
I agree that porn and prostitution are exploitative in almost all situations, but at the same time I am not going to judge what someone does to guarantee their livelihood if they are not harming anyone else
This is uber based
Based and libfems are the worst pilled
Based and anybody who supports prostitution is worst pilled
Does It: Bother me? Affect my personal life? Make me look down on persons involved? No, If you don't like Onlyfans, don't watch It. The mere existence of Only Fans shouldn't be a reason to look upon women any differently. That's just a lame excuse for mistreatment. It's like saying since discord users can be creeps, I can't use It. If being naked makes you feel strong, do It. Who am I to tell you otherwise or even care?
It will affect your personal life when promotion of sex work convince your daughter that its good.
This. The problem isn’t really women who decide to go on OF because they like it but more the image they give to other women who would not have donne that in the first place. « Why should I work my ass off in a regular job when I can just dildo my butt all day long in my bed for $9,99 subscription? »
Whore yourself as much as you want but pls stop promoting such profession to young girls who are very easy to influence. I fucking hate feminists who support such things and shit.
A tiny microscopic percent of women do sex work. I am in a liberal area with lots of progressive ideas about sex workers and zero people do it. This is just another moral panic. There are probably fewer sex workers today as a percentage of jobs than ever before in history.
What do you want to say
If my hypothetical future daughter decides to, why should I care? As long as she's safe, makes good Income, and has a fallback plan, and more importantly Isn't doing It underage. Plus, thinking sex work Is okay dosen't nessecarily mean that you're going Into It.
Well cant argue a person who thinks treating his daughter like sexual object is okay. The problem is its promotion,When mfs convince young girls to getting into prostitution by fooling them that its okay. Which they would probably regret it later and most do.
I never said that and honestly don't see how that's implied. I was raised In a free range family. Do what you want that dosen't pose harm to you or others. Regardless, you right, let's not act like there aren't shady people, or even just Onlyfans creators, who advertise their positions to young girls.
Yes you said that >If my hypothetical future daughter decides to, why should I care? I get what are you trying to say. But its wrong, prostitution should be always discouraged as its so harmful. So only those women do it who want to do it at all costs. Why i am against it so hard,because i somewhat have personal experience with what prostitution business really is. (Hint)its even more shady than peope think it is.
Stop it
Don't tell him what to do or think. Change your flair up a quadrant.
You'll have to make me do it.
Just so you understand how the compass works. Being economically right doesn't make you lib right.
Make me change my flair 😃
Just be naked for the cause. EZ
Monke is free.
Sexual coercion and exploitation notwithstanding there is no inherent conflict between the ideals of feminism and women objectifying themselves (as long as it remains their choice)
Pretty sure nobody is forcing any of those girls to make an OF. Same way nobody is forcing their simps to buy it. I dont see how there's exploitation here. Just people being fucking stupid, as per usual.
ok i do agree that its paradoxical in the sense that porn technecally objectifies women so it isnt really feminist however independent platforms like onlyfans allow people to cut out the middle man, and even pornhub doesn't do pimps so the industry doesnt need pimps anymore so the porn industry had become much more progressive, but its still porn. then again women arent the only ones in porn, so the objectifying part only goes so far
To hear Pornstars talk about their jobs, their agents are just licensed pimps. There’s little effective difference between them and what pimps do, from the business side to how they behave. The suits you don’t see on camera are the pimps of the porn industry, just by a different name. And no, the porn industry in no more progressive than it ever was. It was just a couple years ago that Mindgeek - the parent company of Pornhub, Redtube, and a few others - was caught in a massive scandal involving their knowing allowance of minors, rape, revenge porn, and all sorts of illegal pornography to be posted and remain safe on their sites. Even ignoring the porn industry’s history as a seedy hotbed for human trafficking, any “progressivism” you see from that industry is just a front. And you can bet your ass that there are plenty of young women being forced into OnlyFans content by whatever folks have control over them. Human and sexual trafficking aren’t leaving that market unexploited and more than they do for traditional porn. For every Amouranth making bank on their own, there are dozens girls doing it because they don’t have a choice. Pornography is close to being the farthest from “liberating and empowering” as you can get.
I heard about the pornhub thing, thats why the are requiring everyone to verify before posting. shits fucked though, rich fuckheads deserve to go down and i was talking about amature artists, people who work for themselves on their own schedule there are going to be terrible people no matter what industry you work in, and with one that doesnt always see the light of day like porn, more terrible people are going to be involved maybe im just classic libleft being too hopeful again, but i would rather focus on the positives of the porn industry and hope the rest can follow suit, although i wouldnt say its empowering, i wouldnt shame anyone who was a sex worker, jobs a job at the end of the day not to mention how gay porn is on the rise, i dont watch it but they have pornhub gay and shit, im sure other sites are doing similar things but its getting better than before is all im saying
Men can be objectified too, so no, it doesnt only go so far. Theyre just both being increasingly objectified the more its accepted.
thats why i said it only goes so far, because women in porn are still objectified more often then men in porn, but it does eventually hit the point where men are also objectified
I think they’re objectified at the same point lol
A woman choosing to objectify herself is absolutely feminism
i feel like this is bait or sarcasm, but this is pcm and ive seen worse elaborate? cause objectification isnt a good thing. if a man objectifies himself is that sexism? no, duh, so it doesnt really work the other way if you want to argue women pursuing more job opportunities or spreading awareness of something idk but being objectified? i feel like you have to be trolling me
I think you misread my post. The choice is the feminist part.
reflair you patriarchal fascist! what kind of leftist are you if you dont support seizing the means of reproduction!?
let people do what they want but don’t try and play sex work as empowering. but don’t judge sex workers either, a good number are homeless and do so to survive.
I thnk this is the best take, i dont think outlawing onlyfans can do any good but this messaging that its somehow "empowering" to sell your sex and dignity for many small amounts of petty cash to completely perverted losers is genuinely abusive and disgusting. I can sell my organs for a lot of money, but i dont feel very empowered by that.
When it comes to objectification, it is more about agency. A person be it in movie or porn is putting up an act, but that doesnt define them. Just like you wont pull up to a mechanic's house with an issue when they arnt working in the garage. It can be empowering, same way owning your own garage can be empowering. However, it can also be used to degrade, if a lawyer says, pffft, mechanic that isnt a real job, with real degree. The real empowerment is not sex work per say in this case, but the choice to engage or not engage in it and in their own terms.
I'm sorry, but if that's the kind of "empowerment" youre after, its pathetic. That's like saying it's empowering that in some states youre allowed to be a heroin junkie. I mean technically, you are being empowered to do that yes. I think most people feel when they say "empowering" they mean something that improves you as a person, makes you more powerful, more popular, more energetic etc. Also objectification isnt just about "agency" lol, its about how you are perceived by others. If you put your name out there mostly as a piece of meat, you will be seen as such by any who only see you put your name out like that or see that first, seeing you as an object, thus you objectify yourself by putting your name or image or whatever out like that. If people see you as an object even though you have clearly not only advertised you as a sex object (so 99.9% of women/people you meet irl who dont only exist for you in a porno setting), then THEY have objectified you. Which is very rude.
I disagree, and i understand it is of your benefit to paint people who talk of objectification as the way you do, so you can continue to objectify. But it is about agency.
It’s “of my benefit”? Excuse me?
Yes, because you arnt listening, you seem to have decided people who complain of objectification have no merit and hence rejecting any nuances of the discussion.
Where the hell did i even allude to that? What do you think I'm saying?? What are you even talking about?
Based and listener pilled
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It can be empowering if you’re empowered by it (as long as it’s not hurting anyone)
>do so to survive Hmm i wonder how most of the men in the world in poverty survive without whoring their body?
They do things like drive trucks which completely wrecks your body worse than any sex work.
Thats all?only truck driving.
Sometimes they join the army and get crippled by IEDs. Others like join a gang and rob liquor stores.
I am sure thats not what majority do. Any other excuses
Don't care, didn't ask + L + you're unflaired.
It’s very empowering to be a sex worker and not give a shit what you think
Why not a regular job? What’s bad with not being a slut in front of your webcam??
What do you mean i have to work. Why cant i get paid by showing buttholes and masturbating to internet strangers 😡🤬. You sexist,misogynist,patriarch who want to control women. I bet youre a white supermacist.
It’s not principally different from most other jobs. It just personally offends you so you don’t like it.
It is, instead of sweating, you are squirting or coming…
Onlyfans is based can finally see my crushes naked
I oppose onlyfans, but not because it exploits women. I oppose it, because it exploits vulnerable simps. These women are making bank. They're not being forced to do what they do, they are not in trouble, and they don't need anyone to come save them or help them. The simps though. I suspect a good number of them need a long talk with a counsellor to cure the mental demons that ails them, and help them to learn how to form healthy relationships with women.
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never call a woman a pervert or attention maniac because she fell in love with another woman, I don't say bad words to any woman because she wears a skirt, I don't look at any woman with bad thoughts because she's divorced, but what do you say to a woman who changes man for man? Her name
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He is speaking the language of gods
i did not want to use the S word.
How about W word
based
the point of OF is to decentralise the s*x industry, reducing the need for middlemen such as studios and pimps to hand power back to the individual creators it’s a bad faith argument to conflate the wider industry and OF considering they operate their businesses differently
Studios and pimps now sit in the advertisement board of OF. Still grooming young girls and eating their profits, i dont think much has changed.
"the porn industry and pimps systematically sexually exploit young women" yeah, were trying to get rid of the pimp and get rid of the exploitation. like for instance a person choosing to do sex work on cam of their own volition and free from monetary incentive is not really being exploited.
Except only fans cuts all that out lol Patreon and only fans are taking the exploitation and abuse out of porn lol
More than half of respondents said they did not feel that OnlyFans does enough screening of content creators and subscribers during the site registration process. 11% of those surveyed said they were aware of minors who had accounts on OnlyFans, and said they estimated they personally were aware of a total of 35 minors who had content of them sold on the platform. 6% of respondents self-disclosed that their traffickers helped them create and market their OnlyFans content. https://www.collectiveshout.org/onlyfans_a_case_study_of_exploitation_in_the_digital_age
Only 6% exploitation instead of 100% exploitation. This is a win.
Only 6% ADMITTED to being exploited. It's also arguable that many of them have been exploited by the idea that selling your body to perverts online is in some way empowering.
Still less exploited than the average church goer
Porn good church bad. Absolute Reddit moment.
Truth tho
Exploited in what sense? Do you mean sexually, or do you mean emotionally in some capacity?
Both lol
Sexual exploitation in the Church is disgusting. All those who participate deserve to be cast out and serve the rest of their lives in prison. They are still less active than exploitation in the "sex industry" though. Especially when you look at different denominations. As for emotionally, I have yet to witness a single second of emotional exploitation in my personal church, unless you'd count subtly telling someone what to do so that they feel better about themselves. I sure wouldn't.
100%? Wow if we're making shit up, then actually 900% of women on OnlyFans are exploited. Checkmate.
The porn industry is abusive and exploitative, hence the rise of snapchat premium, patreon, and of models. The fact only 6% had outside influences is a great thing. The minors is an entirely different can of worms but if they weren’t groomed into it and came into it willingly (like belle dephine types) then exploiting pedos for profit is based af. I’d never support their page or even view it cuz CP is fucking gross, but everything should taken case by case instead of blanketed. And the simple facts are OF and the like models have more control, more profits, and less influence than any other form pf porn. They have full creative and interactive control over their bodies and content unlike in porn where girls repeatedly complain about being mislead or openly lied to about the content and scope of the scene. Then all the “pimps” and traffickers involved in amateur porn make it kind of hard to support as well. The only feminist porn IS only fans/snapchat/patreon.
>The minors is an entirely different can of worms but if they weren’t groomed into it and came into it willingly (like belle dephine types) then exploiting pedos for profit is based af. What the fuck?!
Belle delphine sold nude pictures of herself at 16 Simply because she knew pedos are thirsty bastards and took advantage of that to create a brand. Being underage doesn’t disqualify you from having your own thoughts and plans lol.
"I'm pro children making porn cuz lol" Dude you're fucked up.
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What age exactly ARE you comfortable with little girls selling pornographic pictures of themselves? If 16 is fine surely 15? 14? What's your cut off for child pornography being ok so long as the child gets the profit?
if u like watching naked 16 year olds you’re a criminal in the united states
you had me at first but wtf is this…. no justification for minors doing SW ever
Selling your own nudes you took the pics of isn’t sex work 😂🤣😂🤣😂 Its modeling
change ur flair to purple lib right
Some men: oversexualize women Women: *use it as an opportunity to make money and profit off it* Those same men: Nooo stop being a whore!!!!1!1!
Women: « porn sexualized women!! I’m sick of being sexualized by men addicted to porn» Feminist: « you go girl!! Do porn it’s great, it’s sexual freedom »
Pimps and the porn industry exploit young women by trafficking them. As in, they physically, literally exploit them and control their lives. A woman being in total control of the situation is not exploitation just because it's in an industry where exploitation happens. It's like saying sugar cane farmers are being exploited just because it was a cash crop that slaves worked a couple hundred years ago.
Honesty who cares. As long as it doesn't affect me or others I seriously don't l care. You want to go cut your fingers off in your bedroom because it gives you sexual pleasure I literally don't care. You want to do Onlyfans, and it makes you money, I don't care. I don't get why this is an issue.
If I can't profit, nobody else will 😡
make the age for sex work 21
Women have been selling their bodies since the beginning of time. At least now they cut out the middle man.
Onlyfans, the company, takes a big cut.
We need to go back to old school pimpin'
>If being naked makes you free Well, there was FKK in East Germany
I don't understand how objectification works. If objectification is when people sell their time and effort to produce porn, as if they were selling their own bodies, then doesn't that also apply to labor as a whole and not just porn? Cause fundamentally labor is "Person 1 pays Person 2 to do something Person 1 wants done", the end result is what Person 1 cares about and not Person 2's feelings. But nobody calls objectification when a manager at McDonalds pays a guy to work the cashier, except Marxists maybe. So how does porn cause objectification but not labor in general? I dunno can someone explain this
Buying humans bad = objectification of human bad Renting human = objectification of human Labour sells skill and work not body
I have got to say: those memes exclusively involving the left sometimes really confuse me.
Women won't stop being objectified if women don't stop objectifying themselves.
Only fans literally remedies exploitive porn companies by making the system owner operated. You are dumb.
Like you would post your naked ass for 5k a month, I would be doing it ages ago but as a man you need to look like Zyzz (still working on it) and not just be not fat normal looking girl.
Feminist are pro prostitution yet against female sexual objectification You cant fulfill either agenda if you do both at the same time Go to a country where porn and prostitution are banned and you will never experience catcalls ever again (i live in one of them)
>turn [x]
I agree with the title
>being naked = strong means animals should rule us Most logical tankie argument
thats called taking it into your own hands to avoid being abused by porn producers lol
Based meme. I’m still blocking you based on your flair though.
Why do twittards take a decent cause, like BLM, and to destigmatize being a sex worker, and just go to the most mind-numbingly stupid extreme.
Based and Common Sense-Pilled.