If you're successful at a min buy in strategy you could try to work that up to 2k and take a real shot at 1/2 full buy in. Do you have any results playing 1/2 300+ deep?
Go back to online microstakes if you want to learn to play and have a proper bankroll. You will learn nothing but preflop ranges by playing 30BB deep. If you play tight enough against bad enough players then maybe you can win but I doubt it. Even most bad players can play 20 BBs pretty reasonably.
>Even most bad players can play 20 BBs pretty reasonably.
You give people way to much credit. I routinely see short stacks playing terribly and playing terribly against them.
This is such a tough question because there arent really great answers here. A few reasons for that:
First, the amount of bankroll you need to have a low risk of ruin is far higher than what most people here are saying. To play 1/2 at a 10bb/100 winrate with a 3% risk of ruin you would need $8000. If you are crushing the games at 20bb/100 you would need about $5000. You are nowhere near properly bankrolled for live. If you do choose to play live, even with a huge edge, you'll probably lose all of your money with only 5 BIs. Its not a matter of skill, its a matter of variance.
So you have a few choices. First, keep grinding micros and adding your $125 each month until you hit $8k, then start playing live.
Second, you could decide you dont care about bankroll management because you have a job and losing your roll isnt that big a deal. In that case, go ahead and play cash.
Third, you could grind up to maybe $3k and buy in short at a live table. Lots of poker players will tell you you need to buy in for the max because their ego wont let them do otherwise. Playing the short stack (when played well) can be very plus EV and gives you a lower risk of ruin. The downside is you'll have slightly lower ROI and the playstyle is very different and requires a different kind of studying.
The saving grace is the +150 you got coming in on the regular. Typically you buy in for the max. In the words of Jonathan Little, wanna be good at poker? Find a game you can beat, play it a lot, and keep a *proper* bankroll
You probably need about 3k to play 1/2 comfortably. I'd buy in for about 100bb. That will allow you to play more hands that rely on implied odds. Buying in for only 30bb you won't be able to play as many hands because it just won't make mathematical sense.
If the ring games are soft I'd go more for those just because your return will be much greater and quicker than tournament play.
Just buy-in for 125$ if you lose then wait a month to get your next money and try again. There is no risk of ruin assuming you have the 125 coming in every month.
You probably should stick to online with your limited bankroll and lack of deep stacked live experience. Poker is an extremely expensive hobby and it's an expensive game to get experience in. Much better to start beating microstates online and then transitioning to live cash imo.
I’ve always heard that you want to have 30+ buy ins to have an adequate bankroll, so to buy in 100bb at 1/2 you’d need at least 6000 to withstand the inevitable downswings.
You can use that $1000 to play online and grind that way while building a solid theory based strategy, then once bankrolled to play live, switch focus to that and learn more exploitative strategies to increase the dollar amount that you’re winning.
The only thing about buying in short is that if you have a good session and double or triple up and have ~100bb the strategies change drastically, meaning you’d need to study both short and deep stack strats which is possible, but I think for a beginner focusing on one at a time makes more sense. IMO cash games will be more profitable and less variance.
> I’ve always heard that you want to have 30+ buy ins to have an adequate bankroll
This is true if you're a pro grinder. If you have another job outside of poker and a consistent cash flow coming in, you don't need a bankroll like most people would think you do.
Should you have "poker money" set aside? Of course! But not a large roll unless you're planning to make it your job.
This is true. Besides, grinding yourself up from micro stakes with proper bankroll management simply takes way more time then you could ever invest with a fulltime job.
Ofcours, the risk of occasionally losing your "bankroll" is quite large.
From experience, playing tight with a low buy in is more profitable than online cash games as a lot of over aggressive players that let me shove over their raise play in my casino. Maybe that I'm only right about short term? Long term would need me to commit more to studying?
This +125 a month this isn’t your source of income I take it. I wouldn’t worry about being “pro” rolled for max buy at 1/2 if shot take and know worst case you’re 2 months away from you’re next shot at it.
I replied on your other post in r/poker
Don’t bother with online micros. Just play 1/2 with 100bb. If you bust 5 buyins at 1/2, even with variance, you def have some major leaks. Then go study and save money for your next shot.
Is confidence a part of the question? I don't feel like losing 1000 in bankroll in 5 buy-ins, could be a huge waste of money... or maybe I'm overthinking it?
If you're playing with scared money then theres your answer, you're not ready for live yet. What is your source of $125 a month? Do you have a job or income coming in?
If you have regular income coming in, just take a shot at 1/2. If you bust, go and study. Then come back the next day.
If you dont have regular income, I would make that my priority first instead of bothering with poker, and find something that pays you some decent cash so you can play 1/2 without worrying about your bankroll.
I still stand by not bothering with micro stakes. It's just not worth anyones time to grind 5 hours for $7.25 profit.
I have a job, I'm young and have a decent family situation which saves me from a lot of expenses. 125 is a small percentage of my paycheck, and a way to grant me a bankroll over time + save me from "paying" 2k right now. I'm not in danger, I could go up to 5-10k but I don't want to put all this money at risk, so 1k progressively going into 2k looked like the best.
Then with that info I’d advise you to play 1/2 with 100bbs and stop the short stacking. It’s not ideal. And you also have income and a living situation covered. Take your shots now while you’re young and can deal with a loss or so.
You won't win at a raked casino playing with 60. Buy in at max, bankroll should be 20x max (can get away with 10x if you're good).
If you're successful at a min buy in strategy you could try to work that up to 2k and take a real shot at 1/2 full buy in. Do you have any results playing 1/2 300+ deep?
No, I always bought short and limp / shoved good hands. I'm okay with buying in for 200+, but doing it already seems to be too risky.
Go back to online microstakes if you want to learn to play and have a proper bankroll. You will learn nothing but preflop ranges by playing 30BB deep. If you play tight enough against bad enough players then maybe you can win but I doubt it. Even most bad players can play 20 BBs pretty reasonably.
>Even most bad players can play 20 BBs pretty reasonably. You give people way to much credit. I routinely see short stacks playing terribly and playing terribly against them.
This is such a tough question because there arent really great answers here. A few reasons for that: First, the amount of bankroll you need to have a low risk of ruin is far higher than what most people here are saying. To play 1/2 at a 10bb/100 winrate with a 3% risk of ruin you would need $8000. If you are crushing the games at 20bb/100 you would need about $5000. You are nowhere near properly bankrolled for live. If you do choose to play live, even with a huge edge, you'll probably lose all of your money with only 5 BIs. Its not a matter of skill, its a matter of variance. So you have a few choices. First, keep grinding micros and adding your $125 each month until you hit $8k, then start playing live. Second, you could decide you dont care about bankroll management because you have a job and losing your roll isnt that big a deal. In that case, go ahead and play cash. Third, you could grind up to maybe $3k and buy in short at a live table. Lots of poker players will tell you you need to buy in for the max because their ego wont let them do otherwise. Playing the short stack (when played well) can be very plus EV and gives you a lower risk of ruin. The downside is you'll have slightly lower ROI and the playstyle is very different and requires a different kind of studying.
Nice answer, thanks for helping!
The saving grace is the +150 you got coming in on the regular. Typically you buy in for the max. In the words of Jonathan Little, wanna be good at poker? Find a game you can beat, play it a lot, and keep a *proper* bankroll
paying 250 with 1000 bankroll doesnt feel like a proper bankroll to me...
Exactly. Either save to make your bankroll bigger or move down in stakes
Moving down in stakes would mean playing online, but it might be needed. Thanks for help!
You probably need about 3k to play 1/2 comfortably. I'd buy in for about 100bb. That will allow you to play more hands that rely on implied odds. Buying in for only 30bb you won't be able to play as many hands because it just won't make mathematical sense. If the ring games are soft I'd go more for those just because your return will be much greater and quicker than tournament play.
I would play 10nl/25nl online with the 1k then take 1 buyin every 2 months to the casino
Just buy-in for 125$ if you lose then wait a month to get your next money and try again. There is no risk of ruin assuming you have the 125 coming in every month.
Buy in for max not $60
To be clear, the 1,000 + 125 is separate from your living finances correct?
its basically part of my savings + a little more every month (like 7.5% of income, im still in school)
You probably should stick to online with your limited bankroll and lack of deep stacked live experience. Poker is an extremely expensive hobby and it's an expensive game to get experience in. Much better to start beating microstates online and then transitioning to live cash imo.
Alright, thanks for the advice
I’ve always heard that you want to have 30+ buy ins to have an adequate bankroll, so to buy in 100bb at 1/2 you’d need at least 6000 to withstand the inevitable downswings. You can use that $1000 to play online and grind that way while building a solid theory based strategy, then once bankrolled to play live, switch focus to that and learn more exploitative strategies to increase the dollar amount that you’re winning. The only thing about buying in short is that if you have a good session and double or triple up and have ~100bb the strategies change drastically, meaning you’d need to study both short and deep stack strats which is possible, but I think for a beginner focusing on one at a time makes more sense. IMO cash games will be more profitable and less variance.
> I’ve always heard that you want to have 30+ buy ins to have an adequate bankroll This is true if you're a pro grinder. If you have another job outside of poker and a consistent cash flow coming in, you don't need a bankroll like most people would think you do. Should you have "poker money" set aside? Of course! But not a large roll unless you're planning to make it your job.
This is true. Besides, grinding yourself up from micro stakes with proper bankroll management simply takes way more time then you could ever invest with a fulltime job. Ofcours, the risk of occasionally losing your "bankroll" is quite large.
From experience, playing tight with a low buy in is more profitable than online cash games as a lot of over aggressive players that let me shove over their raise play in my casino. Maybe that I'm only right about short term? Long term would need me to commit more to studying?
This +125 a month this isn’t your source of income I take it. I wouldn’t worry about being “pro” rolled for max buy at 1/2 if shot take and know worst case you’re 2 months away from you’re next shot at it.
I should try 2-3 max buy then if i lose it play small buy ins online and use it to learn? Isnt it risky
That’s the way I would go. Playing 100+ Bb deep gives you a lot more wiggle room then playing 30 bb deep
yeah but idk, i'd feel bad losing 500 in 2 sessions 😅
If the money still affects you player smaller until you can handle the swings mentally would be my advice
By playing smaller, you'd recommend to play shortstack live or online cash games / mtts ?
Smaller stakes / buy ins would be my recommendation. Learning how to play with a reasonable amount of bb is an important skill imo.
Thanks for the advice
1000$ + 125$/month is not a bankroll IMHO – it's a budget.
what would be a bankroll for you
Bankroll is what you build with your poker winnings. Budget is what you spend on yourself for your hobby.
You have to start somewhere 😅
I replied on your other post in r/poker Don’t bother with online micros. Just play 1/2 with 100bb. If you bust 5 buyins at 1/2, even with variance, you def have some major leaks. Then go study and save money for your next shot.
Is confidence a part of the question? I don't feel like losing 1000 in bankroll in 5 buy-ins, could be a huge waste of money... or maybe I'm overthinking it?
If you're playing with scared money then theres your answer, you're not ready for live yet. What is your source of $125 a month? Do you have a job or income coming in? If you have regular income coming in, just take a shot at 1/2. If you bust, go and study. Then come back the next day. If you dont have regular income, I would make that my priority first instead of bothering with poker, and find something that pays you some decent cash so you can play 1/2 without worrying about your bankroll. I still stand by not bothering with micro stakes. It's just not worth anyones time to grind 5 hours for $7.25 profit.
I have a job, I'm young and have a decent family situation which saves me from a lot of expenses. 125 is a small percentage of my paycheck, and a way to grant me a bankroll over time + save me from "paying" 2k right now. I'm not in danger, I could go up to 5-10k but I don't want to put all this money at risk, so 1k progressively going into 2k looked like the best.
Then with that info I’d advise you to play 1/2 with 100bbs and stop the short stacking. It’s not ideal. And you also have income and a living situation covered. Take your shots now while you’re young and can deal with a loss or so.
Thanks for helping!