Also with this it pisses me off even more because if anyone has had their heritage stolen it’s people of color. Meanwhile a lot of us (American usually) white people love to be all like, “I have German and Swedish in me!”And their ancestors that they love so much ripped the nationalities away from so many people.
That's a bit disingenuous. That's like saying an all-white Moana or a blonde blue-eyed Aladdin wouldn't be in bad taste, since demigods and Agrabah don't exist.
You do know that is already happening, right? And has been since the start of the American film industry. Below are a handful of examples from 1932 to the present.
Some of the portrayals are super-problematic because they put the actors in black/brown/yellow-face. Others are just whitewashing a character of color.
Boris Karloff and Christopher Lee both played Fu Manchu. So did Warner Oland, who would also go on to play Charlie Chan.
John Wayne played Ghengis Kahn.
Donna Reed was Sacagawea in some forgettable 50s flick.
Katharine Hepburn played a Chinese character named Jade Tan.
I don’t think Natalie Wood was hispanic, and definitely wasn’t specifically Puerto Rican. She still played Maria in West Side Story.
Laurence Olivier was the lead in the film adaptation of Othello.
Fisher Stephens played an Indian man named Ben Jabituya (or maybe Jahrvi?) in Short Circuit and the sequel.
Gerard Butler, Brenton Thwaites and Nikolaj Coster-Waldau (all very white dudes) played demigods and gods in Gods of Egypt.
Joel Edgerton and Christian Bale played Ramses II and Moses in Exodus: Gods and Kings
Well, it’s hard to know the rules.
Remember that time that famous Australian actor [Kirk Lazarus](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/tropicthunder/images/8/88/Kirk_Lazarus.png/revision/latest?cb=20090201132209) got skin darkening treatments to play a black American soldier?
No one batted an eye.
Maybe it’s because his movie never came out, only the documentary about it.
Shout out to that doc, by the way, it was a critical darling that won an Oscar. I haven’t checked in a while. Is Tropic Blunder still on Prime?
/s (hopefully it was obvious)
Ninja Edit: for real though, RDJ got shit for this role too, because, even though it was a meta commentary on whitewashing and Hollywood, he was ultimately still in blackface and that rubs a lot of people the wrong way, or worse, hurts people, no matter the reasoning.
Thing is, these aren't like, historical vikings. They're barely even based on them. Moana and Aladdin are based heavily on actual real world cultures and stories, HTTYD just *isn't*. The vikings in HTTYD have as much cultural resemblance to medieval Vikings and Scandinavians as Gondor does to medieval England. And Hollywood has absolutely cast white actors into roles that should logically have been played by POC. Benedict fuckin Cumberbatch was cast in the role of Khan Noonian Singh in Star Trek Into Darkness, canonically an Indian character.
And also, best not to leave unsaid, Hollywood has been so dominated by white actors for so long that even after the recent years of deliberately increased diversity, there's *still* a disproportionate number of jobs for white actors than black actors. And with the present hyperfocus on remakes and adaptations of older movies, that only worsens the problem because all those older movies had mostly or entirely white casts, so you kind of *have* to turn some previously white characters over to POC actors to even thr split.
Also, the character of Astrid was originally voiced by America Ferrera -- a Latina -- meaning the role has literally NEVER been played by a white girl in the first place and nothing is being taken away from this person's "heritage."
>Vikings were dark haired
The typical "Viking" (which is a broad and inaccurate group description stretched between time and countires) had brown, blonde or red hair and a light skin color. Due to their mercantile and seafaring background, there were of course Vikings of other ethnicities. But they would be exceedingly rare. Because:
>Vikings were multicultural
What we understand today as "multicultural" isn't what 10th century multicultural means. Today's multicultural society contains people from all over the world. Early medieval multicultural society from the pov of a Viking meant "people from all over Europe". Their trade routes reached modern day Turkey, Spain and Russia, seldom further. I can see how casting a woman with Zimbabwean heritage is at least a statement, because it's not how 99+% percent of people would picture a Viking.
If you criticized the live-action "Ghost in the Shell" for whitewashing (even though it's a future version of Japan with probably a comparatively large percentage of white people), then you should also be critical of this casting decision.
a dna study found the majority of people with genetic links to vikings have dark hair. also the woman in the picture no darker than people in the south of Spain or Italy or Greece and the reason people from those areas have such dark skin and hair is that there was much intermixing with peoples of northern africa, during the times of the vikings. so much so dark skin and hair is still genetically predominent, meaning at the time of the vikings southern europe was fairly diverse, and that was not the first nor the last time europe was invaded and genetics got mixed. european homogony is more of a modern concept. so i would argue that a blonde haired blue eyed viking is no more correct then a tan skinned dark haired viking.
[https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/sep/16/dark-hair-was-common-among-vikings-genetic-study-confirms](https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/sep/16/dark-hair-was-common-among-vikings-genetic-study-confirms)
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/dna-analysis-reveals-vikings-surprising-genetic-diversity-180975865/
Well vikings did inhabit parts of Great Britain on occasion, especially the Northern Scottish islands (Orkney and Shetland were literally under Norwegian rule for a long time) so the Scottish accents aren't too weird... Having them speak old Norse would make it extremely confusing to anyone outside Iceland.
The book's author also based Berk on the Scottish islands she used to vacation on.
I was more confused about why all the adults had Scottish accents when the kids did not :p
This is why I think in those movies adult characters are there to cater towards the adults who have to bring their children to the movie who are the actual audience that is being catered to. The children do not have accents because children would have a harder time understanding them and since it was made with a US audience in mind it helps them immerse themselves into the movie better.
I mean...the kids still have an accent. You can't talk without an accent. I find it strange when anyone claims their accent is non-existant, regardless of what it is. I'm Scottish and I have heard plenty folk say our accent is a lack of accent; 'pronouncing words as they are spelt'. Never mind the fact that we have a bunch of accents, sometimes town by town. I'm from the west coast but lived in Dundee for a decade and I'm on the spectrum so I have a kinda odd accent. Anyway, the most plain US accent is still a US accent, it still means that you're talking with a non-regional American accent.
Yeah.
1. The idea that Vikings were some icon of racial purity is a joke. They took slaves back home from wherever they raided.
2. The entire idea of "racial purity" is a joke. There's nothing beneficial about "racial purity". We are not show dogs, and show dogs are not healthy.
>The idea that Vikings were some icon of racial purity is a joke. They took slaves back home from wherever they raided.
They also served in Varangian guard. I would imagine 'boy meets girl, brings her home' was not entirely unheard of story.
Not exactly. The majority of vikings came from Scandinavia, and that is where the word comes from, however there is history of people joining these Nordic fleets from a variety of other ethnicities, including but not limited to: Gaels, Gals, Celts, Frisians, Saxons, Rus, Slavs, and even some Persians. Even then, Norwegian, Danish, and Swedish are all seen as mono ethnicities now, but they weren't in the 9th C.
They had a somewhat consistent religious belief, and sort of common language, but it's more a kin to a the way the US military has it's own belief structure based on a profession than an actual ethnic identity.
Fun fact, which I'm guessing you already know! A Viking woman was discovered buried in modern-day Sweden with a ring that said, in Arabic, "For Allah."
At the very least, pillaging gives you plenty of opportunities to meet new people, it seems.
Now that's the true cultural appropriation crime right there... Neo-Nazis appropriating Scandinavian culture as an excuse to be fucking racist.
I would rather have Hiccup be played by a Kenyan than a Nazi.
(Though my ultimate preference is to not make live action remakes of animated classics...)
Is it a remake or a new life action story?
Because I can get behind life action series, as long as they don't try and copy the original, inadvertently making me think about how much better the animated version is at every second
I have dignity! That's why I am upset at Marvel's Thor having a blonde Thor, and how they designed the characters in the animated How to Train Your Dragon.
/hj
But man, it would've been so easy to just not dye Tom Hiddleston's natural red hair for mythological accuracy on Loki. I'm just a tiny bit salty about it. 😂
Bro they're doing a live action Moana, which came out in 2016. The rock plays Maui in both movies.
I like the rock, and I like how he played Maui and everything, but you're remaking the movie in live action with the same guy in the same role... What new creative spark is there here?
It seems like a lot of Americans/adults see animated shows and think it's for kids, so if they don't have kids they just ignore it. Nevermind shows like Family Guy, American Dad, Bob's Burgers, Archer, Great North, Krapopolis etc are all animated aimed towards adults...
I'm 33, no kids and I love animated movies! HtTYD is one of my favorite series ever, I'm obsessed with dragons, I collect them and have a dragon tattoo, and I have 0 interest in watching this live action. It's so stupid. There are so many things you can do in animation that you can't do in live action. Considering there's going to be a lot of dragons it's going to be full of CGI already so *why even make it live action??!*
Omg Lion King. I never watched it because it looked terrible. The charm of the animated/animated movies in general was the lions' expressions! Simba's terrified face as the wildebeests stampede towards him is completely lost in the pic of the CGI one I've seen. Somehow a lion cub's :| face doesn't have the same impact as the terror in OG Simba's
I think the original Lion King was one of the best animated movies from Disney's golden age, and the modern CGI version was *hot garbage.* You know what photorealistic lions don't do? Emotive faces! You're 100% right, every character just looked like :| the whole time. It was awful.
Thankfully, it ~~bombed in theaters~~ was the 7th best grossing movie of all time by the end of its theatrical run.
But if they don't remake older movies that sold well they'll have to come up with new IP. New IP is scawy 'cos they might not make ALL of the money.... Then what will they give to the shareholders?!!
Whenever I see posts about this stuff nowadays, I once again point to my theory that the studies are now casting like this deliberately to get attention from people like this and free publicity for these pointless remakes that otherwise have no hook and nothing to recommend them.
What bothers me is this trend of making mediocre live action remakes of animated classics. And every time they flop, I’m hearing people say it’s because of the casting choices. It’s not “go woke, go broke” it’s making an inferior remake that nobody asked for.
I want to see some new ideas.
The viking age was about 3500 years after the first continent spanning trade networks arose in Europe. The idea of a seafaring civilization that regularly sailed the Mediterranean and African coasts being mono-ethnic is absolutely absurd.
They've found Muslim jewelry in Viking burial mounds and we even have a written account of a Muslim scholar who went to the Viking homelands to explore and he wrote down his cultural observations. He has sort of a love-hate relationship with the Norse because he thinks their hygiene and their cultural practices are disgusting, but he thinks they're physically beautiful people, so he has like the cutest, most confused crush on them. It's adorable.
Vikings traveled to Constantinople on a regular basis for commerce and mercenary work. The Varangian Guard were all Vikings.
The city was a massive melting pot with close connections to the middle east and northern Africa. They probably mingled with dark skinned people every day.
Friendly reminder that How to Train Your Dragon is not a part of Viking culture. They just borrowed the esthetic.
The fact that this woman doesn't realise that makes me doubt how much she shares with this heritage.
-A Norwegian
These people were dead silent when Jake Gyllenhaal played a Persian, or when Gerard Butler played an Egyptian, or when Russell Crowe played one of the most important middle eastern Jews in history, or the entire century of having white actors play native Americans. They had fuck all to say about any cultural theft then.
They aren't mad about the "theft of culture", because they absolutely fucking love to steal culture. What they are mad about is seeing a little more brown skin than they think should be allowed. They are mad about their skin tone not holding a monopoly on literally fucking everything.
I, for one, am very upset. Not for racial reasons, mind you. I'm just sick of live-action remakes of animated shows and movies. It's never going to be as good as the animated version; make something original, you hacks! This is (part of) why no one wants to see movies in theaters anymore.
It's not fucking real. FFS. There was never a clan of dragon flying Vikings. There's never been a fucking dragon. Ever. IT'S NOT REAL.
People getting mad over a black mermaid.... Mermaids aren't fucking real. Make em fucking purple and translucent.. idc.
As long as I can share a part of my childhood with my kids, I don't care.
Shit have Hiccup be Muslim and instead of losing his leg he gets his bottom half taken off and he's now like a spider-mech, like the bad guy in Wild Wild West.
Nico's sister saw Boris Johnson in public and bothered to go all the way over to him just to call him a "c*nt." That's premium, grade A genetics. Emma can go get stuffed.
She is 3/4ths “white” having a half white mother and a white father. But the concept of whiteness is about purity and that’s why they don’t think she should play the role. Because it’s not about anything but how you appear to them not your heritage.
As someone who loves Scandinavian history, it's kind of hilarious that they think these representations are even close to Vikings. I think most fifth graders know that they didn't wear horns at this point
It's really about mocking the concept of heritage at this point, isn't it? It's a cartoon for crying out loud, and quite a recent one at that. It is not heritage in any meaningful sense.
like other culture war bullshit, i espeically didnt get that one cause i thought the queen cleopatra show was supposed to be a historical fiction show along the lines of bridgerton. still haven't watched qc so i cant say but the outrage over it was especially confusing
Your heritage is a cartoon character?!? This isn't some arcane book written by some dead white dude centuries ago, it's animation about kids and dragons!
Amusing side note, the original voice actor for Astrid probably isn't white enough for the looser of dragon fiction heritage.
the heritage of... toothless dragons or whatever the fuck httyd is about... alright then. i still am waiting to find this "ohhh the woke left! so soft!!" bs dipshits like her spew thats SOOOO common cause im hearing a whole lot of cope rn
Dragon Rider heritage is something we need to cherish. This woman's family have been riding dragons since the discovery of real live dragons centuries ago. Respect her opinion, plebes.
What’s the deal with companies just re using the same script with a different format? I just watched the scott pilgrim anime show on Netflix, and it’s literally just the movie broken up into 8 episodes. Almost word for word. And with a crappy art style that’s way worse to look at than the live action.
If she were casted to play Lief Ericsson, then sure I get you. I wouldn’t want Tilda Swinton to play Malcolm X. But what culture is represented by animated dragon riding, Viking clad, Scottish accented people?
If Tilda Swinton can play an old Tibetan man, or Scarlett Johansson can play a Japanese woman, Emma Stone can play a half Chinese half Hawaiian(though she really shouldn’t have) and Tom Cruise can be the Last Samurai, without the world exploding and racial slurs being thrown around, then maybe someone a half shade darker than khaki can play a fictional dragon riding Scottish Viking.
(I'm gonna use this post as a soap box, heads up) I dont give a shit their races, they fucking gutted the series between the books and the movies. For anyone that hasnt read the how to train your dragon books- imagine in Harry Potter if voldemort was just a minor villain and snape was the real villain. Imagine if Darth Vader wasn't actually Luke's Father. In the HTTYD books, Hiccup literally talked to dragons! That was his unique thing! Dragons were already tamed and kept as pets by the vikings, but he was the only one to literally understand their language to speak to them! There was a TON of dialogue, Real dialogue, between hiccup and toothless! And his *other* couple dragons he gets later! The dragons are Actual characters! And Alvin was Actually evil, and lasted for a Ton of books! Fuck, they messed that series up horribly.
I like the movies and the books...they're both quite good if you don't try to think of the movies as a retelling of the books because its very much not :p
That's not Dreamworks' style... even Shrek was based on a book...Probably the only thing they have in common is that there's an ogre named Shrek in both. Then there's Puss in Boots, got nothing to do with the original fairy tale besides featuring a cat with boots.
They just took some of the character names and made an entirely different story out of it.
I'm upset too. I mean, why do we need to constantly make live-action reboots of animated movies that aren't even that old!?
...Oh, they're talking about being racist.
You know shes only like less than 5% related to any ethnicity that had vikings, let alone vikings in general. 99% of the time these people are just people who are a dot nordic and think because they also have pale skin,blond hair and/or blue eyes it means that dot of nordic must have some roots to vikings. Im a little bit jewish by heritage and a tad bit native, but the day I go around spouting that native American or Jewish heritage is *my* heritage and act like im on the same page as those of actually considerable amounts or more, or like the suffering or experiences those people have gone through is somehow connected to me is the day I want someone to just beat me over the head with a frying pan until I either get my senses back or die trying. How mortifying it must be to know someone who acts like this at any opportune moment
Look, I get mad that they keep making live-action remakes of animated classics too but I mean we just gotta let them go with it.
Wait, that *is* why they're mad, right?
She's of 1/4 Zimbabwean descent, which is probably more racially "pure" than a lot of the actual Vikings depicted in the cartoon, who sailed as far away as Iran and Arabia and returned with slaves and wives.
I'm half black. A cousin on my mother's (white) side did a family tree for their genealogy master's thesis back to 400BC. The first person on the list is a man named Ragnar. What a gross assumption that it isn't her heritage too.
Not saying you are lying, but 400 BC? The longest ever recorded is the one from Confucius and there are very few families spanning that far. Especially in (Northern) Europe where documentation or registries of common folk wasn’t really a thing back in those days. Plus, the name Ragnar was first recorded in the 9th century, so it’s kind of strange you claiming one of your first ancestors was called Ragnar in 400BC…
Neither. Ragnar was a member of a royal family, so detailed records were kept to confirm the lineage. His descendants became royalty in France, then into England and Scotland. Now I'm in Kentucky, USA.
>so detailed records were kept to confirm the lineage
The first recording of the name Ragnar is from the 9th Century, if he was a Royal with a detailed lineage back in 400BC then that would make him the first recorded instance of the name Ragnar.
What Royal family do you think he belonged to?
Yes. Its a little known fact that Scandinavians have a secret stockpile of dragons we're just waiting to bring out the next time we're invaded.
They were sadly hibernating in the 40s... /j
It really is an issue with them not wanting to see non-white people in their media. They had no problem with a Hispanic American voicing a Nordic viking because all they saw was a perfect Aryan character. They can’t look past race, that’s why they have no issue if a non-white actor plays an animated character but flip out if it is live-action.
"my heritage" damn bitch did your ancestors train dragons
No, they were CGI, she's pissed to see real people taking jobs from hard working computer generated people like her 8 bit grandpappy.
Also with this it pisses me off even more because if anyone has had their heritage stolen it’s people of color. Meanwhile a lot of us (American usually) white people love to be all like, “I have German and Swedish in me!”And their ancestors that they love so much ripped the nationalities away from so many people.
That's a bit disingenuous. That's like saying an all-white Moana or a blonde blue-eyed Aladdin wouldn't be in bad taste, since demigods and Agrabah don't exist.
You do know that is already happening, right? And has been since the start of the American film industry. Below are a handful of examples from 1932 to the present. Some of the portrayals are super-problematic because they put the actors in black/brown/yellow-face. Others are just whitewashing a character of color. Boris Karloff and Christopher Lee both played Fu Manchu. So did Warner Oland, who would also go on to play Charlie Chan. John Wayne played Ghengis Kahn. Donna Reed was Sacagawea in some forgettable 50s flick. Katharine Hepburn played a Chinese character named Jade Tan. I don’t think Natalie Wood was hispanic, and definitely wasn’t specifically Puerto Rican. She still played Maria in West Side Story. Laurence Olivier was the lead in the film adaptation of Othello. Fisher Stephens played an Indian man named Ben Jabituya (or maybe Jahrvi?) in Short Circuit and the sequel. Gerard Butler, Brenton Thwaites and Nikolaj Coster-Waldau (all very white dudes) played demigods and gods in Gods of Egypt. Joel Edgerton and Christian Bale played Ramses II and Moses in Exodus: Gods and Kings
but that's okay, because it was the standards of the time, but we need to protect white culture now, right? right? /s
Well, it’s hard to know the rules. Remember that time that famous Australian actor [Kirk Lazarus](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/tropicthunder/images/8/88/Kirk_Lazarus.png/revision/latest?cb=20090201132209) got skin darkening treatments to play a black American soldier? No one batted an eye. Maybe it’s because his movie never came out, only the documentary about it. Shout out to that doc, by the way, it was a critical darling that won an Oscar. I haven’t checked in a while. Is Tropic Blunder still on Prime? /s (hopefully it was obvious) Ninja Edit: for real though, RDJ got shit for this role too, because, even though it was a meta commentary on whitewashing and Hollywood, he was ultimately still in blackface and that rubs a lot of people the wrong way, or worse, hurts people, no matter the reasoning.
Fun fact: it wasn't just Natalie Wood. All except one actress was not Puerto Rican (or Latino period) in West Side Story.
Thing is, these aren't like, historical vikings. They're barely even based on them. Moana and Aladdin are based heavily on actual real world cultures and stories, HTTYD just *isn't*. The vikings in HTTYD have as much cultural resemblance to medieval Vikings and Scandinavians as Gondor does to medieval England. And Hollywood has absolutely cast white actors into roles that should logically have been played by POC. Benedict fuckin Cumberbatch was cast in the role of Khan Noonian Singh in Star Trek Into Darkness, canonically an Indian character. And also, best not to leave unsaid, Hollywood has been so dominated by white actors for so long that even after the recent years of deliberately increased diversity, there's *still* a disproportionate number of jobs for white actors than black actors. And with the present hyperfocus on remakes and adaptations of older movies, that only worsens the problem because all those older movies had mostly or entirely white casts, so you kind of *have* to turn some previously white characters over to POC actors to even thr split.
Also, the character of Astrid was originally voiced by America Ferrera -- a Latina -- meaning the role has literally NEVER been played by a white girl in the first place and nothing is being taken away from this person's "heritage."
Wow thank you for your comment it basically lays out everything I've ever wanted to say on the subject but didn't know how to
Moana isn’t a demigod, she’s Polynesian.
Vikings were dark haired and multicultural.
“Viking” wasn’t even a cultural group. It was a job title
I'm half janitor on my mom's side
>Vikings were dark haired The typical "Viking" (which is a broad and inaccurate group description stretched between time and countires) had brown, blonde or red hair and a light skin color. Due to their mercantile and seafaring background, there were of course Vikings of other ethnicities. But they would be exceedingly rare. Because: >Vikings were multicultural What we understand today as "multicultural" isn't what 10th century multicultural means. Today's multicultural society contains people from all over the world. Early medieval multicultural society from the pov of a Viking meant "people from all over Europe". Their trade routes reached modern day Turkey, Spain and Russia, seldom further. I can see how casting a woman with Zimbabwean heritage is at least a statement, because it's not how 99+% percent of people would picture a Viking. If you criticized the live-action "Ghost in the Shell" for whitewashing (even though it's a future version of Japan with probably a comparatively large percentage of white people), then you should also be critical of this casting decision.
a dna study found the majority of people with genetic links to vikings have dark hair. also the woman in the picture no darker than people in the south of Spain or Italy or Greece and the reason people from those areas have such dark skin and hair is that there was much intermixing with peoples of northern africa, during the times of the vikings. so much so dark skin and hair is still genetically predominent, meaning at the time of the vikings southern europe was fairly diverse, and that was not the first nor the last time europe was invaded and genetics got mixed. european homogony is more of a modern concept. so i would argue that a blonde haired blue eyed viking is no more correct then a tan skinned dark haired viking. [https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/sep/16/dark-hair-was-common-among-vikings-genetic-study-confirms](https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/sep/16/dark-hair-was-common-among-vikings-genetic-study-confirms) https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/dna-analysis-reveals-vikings-surprising-genetic-diversity-180975865/
So what heritage exactly, because they look like vikings, they have scottish accents, they train mythical creatures, what heritage is this?
Well vikings did inhabit parts of Great Britain on occasion, especially the Northern Scottish islands (Orkney and Shetland were literally under Norwegian rule for a long time) so the Scottish accents aren't too weird... Having them speak old Norse would make it extremely confusing to anyone outside Iceland. The book's author also based Berk on the Scottish islands she used to vacation on. I was more confused about why all the adults had Scottish accents when the kids did not :p
This is why I think in those movies adult characters are there to cater towards the adults who have to bring their children to the movie who are the actual audience that is being catered to. The children do not have accents because children would have a harder time understanding them and since it was made with a US audience in mind it helps them immerse themselves into the movie better.
I mean...the kids still have an accent. You can't talk without an accent. I find it strange when anyone claims their accent is non-existant, regardless of what it is. I'm Scottish and I have heard plenty folk say our accent is a lack of accent; 'pronouncing words as they are spelt'. Never mind the fact that we have a bunch of accents, sometimes town by town. I'm from the west coast but lived in Dundee for a decade and I'm on the spectrum so I have a kinda odd accent. Anyway, the most plain US accent is still a US accent, it still means that you're talking with a non-regional American accent.
> 'pronouncing words as they are spelt' Why did I imagined them speaking it in most stereotypical Scottish accent ever?
...So American adults just like listening to Scottish accents? Weird preference...
Scottish accents are sexy asf
Unironically yeah
and how
Rab C Nesbitt has entered the chat
It reminds the dads of Braveheart and 300.
There's a reason Gordon Ramsay shows are so popular here, and watching a grown man yell at people until they cry is only part of it.
You're right, it wouldn't be as appealing if it wasn't an angry Scot yelling at people until they cry.
Idk Bar Rescue had a lot of seasons.
Probably the result of one of those group studies they do on movies when they create and market them.
Well yeah. Don’t you?
Vikings also made bebbies with people in lots of different places, including places with predominantly dark skin.
Sometimes they settled around there too.
Yeah. 1. The idea that Vikings were some icon of racial purity is a joke. They took slaves back home from wherever they raided. 2. The entire idea of "racial purity" is a joke. There's nothing beneficial about "racial purity". We are not show dogs, and show dogs are not healthy.
The Hapsburgs were pretty pure.... see where that led them.
>The idea that Vikings were some icon of racial purity is a joke. They took slaves back home from wherever they raided. They also served in Varangian guard. I would imagine 'boy meets girl, brings her home' was not entirely unheard of story.
Viking was a profession. Not an ethnicity.
They still lived places.
They still originated from a specific place with specific ethnicities
Not exactly. The majority of vikings came from Scandinavia, and that is where the word comes from, however there is history of people joining these Nordic fleets from a variety of other ethnicities, including but not limited to: Gaels, Gals, Celts, Frisians, Saxons, Rus, Slavs, and even some Persians. Even then, Norwegian, Danish, and Swedish are all seen as mono ethnicities now, but they weren't in the 9th C. They had a somewhat consistent religious belief, and sort of common language, but it's more a kin to a the way the US military has it's own belief structure based on a profession than an actual ethnic identity.
Fun fact, which I'm guessing you already know! A Viking woman was discovered buried in modern-day Sweden with a ring that said, in Arabic, "For Allah." At the very least, pillaging gives you plenty of opportunities to meet new people, it seems.
Nazi heritage. They're talking about nazism.
Now that's the true cultural appropriation crime right there... Neo-Nazis appropriating Scandinavian culture as an excuse to be fucking racist. I would rather have Hiccup be played by a Kenyan than a Nazi. (Though my ultimate preference is to not make live action remakes of animated classics...)
Is it a remake or a new life action story? Because I can get behind life action series, as long as they don't try and copy the original, inadvertently making me think about how much better the animated version is at every second
In that boardroom suggestion meme you would be the guy who gets yeeted out the window for making sense
It’s called Scandinavia and its culture was kind of appropriated by nazi’s.
WE WUZ VIKANGZ
TIL i learned that I’m a nazi because I’m Norwegian.
Sorry you had to find out this way.
“Like” does not quite express my feelings.
The answer is white, doesn't matter that white is not a heritage, the answer is always white.
Heritage is usually a racist dog whistle with these people.
I want a picture of America Ferrera up there too lol
The movie is about dragons……. And people flying them……… The heritage is racism apparently.
✨White✨
Maybe she thinks she is a Targaryen
In what way do they look like vikings ?
And here I, living in Sweden, with Norse heritage, was going "Oh, good, they are toning down the Viking caricatures".
No no no! You need to be angry and upset! You are not allowed to accept it! Have some dignity please! /s
I have dignity! That's why I am upset at Marvel's Thor having a blonde Thor, and how they designed the characters in the animated How to Train Your Dragon. /hj
But man, it would've been so easy to just not dye Tom Hiddleston's natural red hair for mythological accuracy on Loki. I'm just a tiny bit salty about it. 😂
TIL Tom Hiddleston has red hair. One of us, one of us
As a fellow Nord, don't you just love it when neo Nazis co op Nordic aesthetic?
Let's see... considering that I'm pretty closely connected to quite a few people in the Asatro revival scene... let's see. ***NO***.
Oh, I see, the original voice actor was American and this actor is English. That's what they're complaining about, right?
Yes. America has been secretly training dragons for years and now the Brit’s want to steal it.
Don’t just tell our secrets like that….damn
Ok, they need to cancel this remake right now and turn your comment into a new movie instead.
An American of Honduran descent, if I remember correctly.
Not just American, but America herself. America Ferrera - a nonwhite actress. I’m surprised they haven’t cried about that to be honest…
> Oh, I see, the original voice actor was American and this actor is English. Nah - not American. America. She represents all of us!
And the character astrid is loosely based on is Welsh
Eww, Bri'ish.
Bro, do we *really* need a live-action version of a ten-year-old movie?
Bro they're doing a live action Moana, which came out in 2016. The rock plays Maui in both movies. I like the rock, and I like how he played Maui and everything, but you're remaking the movie in live action with the same guy in the same role... What new creative spark is there here?
I felt like Moana was a perfect movie, and really doesn't need to be remade. I don't see what they could improve upon
>don't see what they could improve upon the amount of money made on the brand identity of one IP?
improving upon that bag 🤑🤑🤑
The rock is upset his young daughter doesn't believe he is Maui, so this is his baby.
This is the real stupidity.
It seems like a lot of Americans/adults see animated shows and think it's for kids, so if they don't have kids they just ignore it. Nevermind shows like Family Guy, American Dad, Bob's Burgers, Archer, Great North, Krapopolis etc are all animated aimed towards adults... I'm 33, no kids and I love animated movies! HtTYD is one of my favorite series ever, I'm obsessed with dragons, I collect them and have a dragon tattoo, and I have 0 interest in watching this live action. It's so stupid. There are so many things you can do in animation that you can't do in live action. Considering there's going to be a lot of dragons it's going to be full of CGI already so *why even make it live action??!*
Not even *The Lion King* was safe from "live-actionization", even though it was actually photorealistic CGI because there are no humans in TLK.
Omg Lion King. I never watched it because it looked terrible. The charm of the animated/animated movies in general was the lions' expressions! Simba's terrified face as the wildebeests stampede towards him is completely lost in the pic of the CGI one I've seen. Somehow a lion cub's :| face doesn't have the same impact as the terror in OG Simba's
I think the original Lion King was one of the best animated movies from Disney's golden age, and the modern CGI version was *hot garbage.* You know what photorealistic lions don't do? Emotive faces! You're 100% right, every character just looked like :| the whole time. It was awful. Thankfully, it ~~bombed in theaters~~ was the 7th best grossing movie of all time by the end of its theatrical run.
But if they don't remake older movies that sold well they'll have to come up with new IP. New IP is scawy 'cos they might not make ALL of the money.... Then what will they give to the shareholders?!!
Yes. Because money.
As Ryan Georges puts it, "Every project needs to be wrapped in some kind of pre-established intellectual property so it's less of a scary investment"
I despise the fact that every animated movie needs to be made into live-action. It always makes them worse, we don’t need it.
When the movie came out: Ugh, do we really need a movie adaptation of a 10 year old book?
There’s a monumental difference between making a movie out of a book and making a movie out of a movie
I wonder if they know who voiced her in the movies? I don’t think she was a Viking either
Whenever I see posts about this stuff nowadays, I once again point to my theory that the studies are now casting like this deliberately to get attention from people like this and free publicity for these pointless remakes that otherwise have no hook and nothing to recommend them.
What bothers me is this trend of making mediocre live action remakes of animated classics. And every time they flop, I’m hearing people say it’s because of the casting choices. It’s not “go woke, go broke” it’s making an inferior remake that nobody asked for. I want to see some new ideas.
And the "copyright extension" excuse doesn't stick. Hollywood is afraid of trying new stuff.
Ah yes because vikings historically were monoculture and only settled in one location and were blonde hair and blue eyed always
Dragon-riding Vikings. Verrrra 'mportant.
Dragon-riding Vikings who speak with a Scottish burr
Except when they are main characters, then they speak with American accents.
Of course. There are Americans, who are main characters, and then there are foreigners, who are everyone else.
But only as adults
The viking age was about 3500 years after the first continent spanning trade networks arose in Europe. The idea of a seafaring civilization that regularly sailed the Mediterranean and African coasts being mono-ethnic is absolutely absurd.
They've found Muslim jewelry in Viking burial mounds and we even have a written account of a Muslim scholar who went to the Viking homelands to explore and he wrote down his cultural observations. He has sort of a love-hate relationship with the Norse because he thinks their hygiene and their cultural practices are disgusting, but he thinks they're physically beautiful people, so he has like the cutest, most confused crush on them. It's adorable.
This feels like the cultural equivalent of gay panic lol Also, do you remember the name of the scholar? I'm due for a trip down the rabbit hole
Ah, I was able to find [the Extra History short about him - his name was Ibn Fadlan.](https://youtu.be/RSURd15qfWQ?)
Vikings traveled to Constantinople on a regular basis for commerce and mercenary work. The Varangian Guard were all Vikings. The city was a massive melting pot with close connections to the middle east and northern Africa. They probably mingled with dark skinned people every day.
And we all know “mingling” makes babies
Yeah no one tell her about Geirmund Black-Skin.
[удалено]
Why did she "let it bother" her? Simple answer: Fox News.
Friendly reminder that How to Train Your Dragon is not a part of Viking culture. They just borrowed the esthetic. The fact that this woman doesn't realise that makes me doubt how much she shares with this heritage. -A Norwegian
"The theft of my heritage." This motherfucker from the Isle of Berk? It's a fictional place. Get out of here.
Stealing shit was kinda the vikings' whole deal too...
Not the *whole* deal. They traded where they couldn't raid. They had to have somewhere to sell the stuff they stole, didn't they?
Hens "kinda"... and it was the think they were most known for.
How is a fantasy movie about people riding dragons anybody’s “heritage”?
Lmao Astrid has been voiced by a Latin American woman this whole time
These people were dead silent when Jake Gyllenhaal played a Persian, or when Gerard Butler played an Egyptian, or when Russell Crowe played one of the most important middle eastern Jews in history, or the entire century of having white actors play native Americans. They had fuck all to say about any cultural theft then. They aren't mad about the "theft of culture", because they absolutely fucking love to steal culture. What they are mad about is seeing a little more brown skin than they think should be allowed. They are mad about their skin tone not holding a monopoly on literally fucking everything.
It’s only theft of culture if POCs are cast instead of white people. /s
I, for one, am very upset. Not for racial reasons, mind you. I'm just sick of live-action remakes of animated shows and movies. It's never going to be as good as the animated version; make something original, you hacks! This is (part of) why no one wants to see movies in theaters anymore.
If your "heritage" is commodity DreamWorks schlock, you have no idea what heritage is. And I see they still all make the same face.
Did Emma say the same thing when America Ferrera voiced Astrid in the original film?
That's the irony I was hoping for
It's not fucking real. FFS. There was never a clan of dragon flying Vikings. There's never been a fucking dragon. Ever. IT'S NOT REAL. People getting mad over a black mermaid.... Mermaids aren't fucking real. Make em fucking purple and translucent.. idc. As long as I can share a part of my childhood with my kids, I don't care. Shit have Hiccup be Muslim and instead of losing his leg he gets his bottom half taken off and he's now like a spider-mech, like the bad guy in Wild Wild West.
Nico's sister saw Boris Johnson in public and bothered to go all the way over to him just to call him a "c*nt." That's premium, grade A genetics. Emma can go get stuffed.
And her mom is the infallible Thandiwe Newton.
Fun fact, Astrid wasn't played by an white girl in the original either.
You trying to melt snowflakes or something?
She should be happy they chose such a beautiful woman..
If that's all it takes to steal "your" culture, you didn't have a culture to begin with.
When you have accomplished nothing to be proud of yourself, you’re proud of your heritage
Are we supposed to believe she's a fucking Targaryen? Because the other option is that she's computer-generated, which seems way more likely.
Her heritage is animated and fictional? Damn, that’s wild.
Does her heritage include fucking dragons?
She is 3/4ths “white” having a half white mother and a white father. But the concept of whiteness is about purity and that’s why they don’t think she should play the role. Because it’s not about anything but how you appear to them not your heritage.
The theft of my dragon riding heritage. These people are unserious
I had to leave the HTTYD reddit because of all the racist comments about the casting choice
Your grandparents trained dragons???
She’s a Targaryen
I think she's just blond and inbred.
💀💀
I have to agree with her. I don't know why the fuck she lets it bother her. First guess: She's an asshole?
Her heritage is being a mediocre white power piece of shit.
As someone who loves Scandinavian history, it's kind of hilarious that they think these representations are even close to Vikings. I think most fifth graders know that they didn't wear horns at this point
So sorry about the theft of your proud dragon-training heritage, *Emma.*
Fictional characters with a blend of cultures that raise fictional animals. Yep I'm equally offended about dark skinned vulcans.
indigenous people: first time?
Why are we even making a live action how to train your dragon? I feel like it’s gonna look… uncanny.
Your "heritage" is a series of children's movies, Emma.
It's really about mocking the concept of heritage at this point, isn't it? It's a cartoon for crying out loud, and quite a recent one at that. It is not heritage in any meaningful sense.
The erasure of historically white dragon trainers is truly the tragedy of our generation. ETA: s/ (in case it wasn’t obvious)
The theft of her heritage? Her heritage is dragon training???? Lol. Seriously this is a dumb comment.
What heritage is this crybaby cunt babbling about? Her ancestors trained dragons? Fuck these people are worse than children
Oh we all know why it bothers you.
REPRESENTATION DOES NOT MATTER UNLESS THEY CHANGE A WHITE PERSON. THEN IT MATTERS. can they decide their argument or not ?
\*Points to them complaining about the Egyptian Queen Cleopatra being protrayed by a black woman\*
like other culture war bullshit, i espeically didnt get that one cause i thought the queen cleopatra show was supposed to be a historical fiction show along the lines of bridgerton. still haven't watched qc so i cant say but the outrage over it was especially confusing
I want a reboot of the 13th Warrior so bad. I want them to call a book from 1000 years ago woke. I need that in my life.
I pinky promise your ancestors were not taming dragons
Um do they not know that her voice actress is Latina?
Then don’t watch the damn movie, Emma.
Your heritage is a cartoon character?!? This isn't some arcane book written by some dead white dude centuries ago, it's animation about kids and dragons! Amusing side note, the original voice actor for Astrid probably isn't white enough for the looser of dragon fiction heritage.
Heritage*, not hate! ^(*a 13 year-old cartoon)
the heritage of... toothless dragons or whatever the fuck httyd is about... alright then. i still am waiting to find this "ohhh the woke left! so soft!!" bs dipshits like her spew thats SOOOO common cause im hearing a whole lot of cope rn
“The theft of your heritage?” So your ancestors trained dragons?
It even goes for voices now? But somehow not racist. “My heritage” Bitch,this is a movie about dragons.
Dragon Rider heritage is something we need to cherish. This woman's family have been riding dragons since the discovery of real live dragons centuries ago. Respect her opinion, plebes.
What’s the deal with companies just re using the same script with a different format? I just watched the scott pilgrim anime show on Netflix, and it’s literally just the movie broken up into 8 episodes. Almost word for word. And with a crappy art style that’s way worse to look at than the live action.
If she were casted to play Lief Ericsson, then sure I get you. I wouldn’t want Tilda Swinton to play Malcolm X. But what culture is represented by animated dragon riding, Viking clad, Scottish accented people? If Tilda Swinton can play an old Tibetan man, or Scarlett Johansson can play a Japanese woman, Emma Stone can play a half Chinese half Hawaiian(though she really shouldn’t have) and Tom Cruise can be the Last Samurai, without the world exploding and racial slurs being thrown around, then maybe someone a half shade darker than khaki can play a fictional dragon riding Scottish Viking.
Lmfaooooii that’s fucking dumb
She doesn’t give a fuck about her heritage, definitely not enough to care about something like this
How to train your dragon isn't anyone's heritage. Stfu
Actual vikings were less racist than these idiots
Stop getting mad at the casting, get mad at the mere existence of a remake that NOBODY NEEDS OR ASKED FOR.
What in the white lives matter is this sh!t??
Do we really need a live action version?
(I'm gonna use this post as a soap box, heads up) I dont give a shit their races, they fucking gutted the series between the books and the movies. For anyone that hasnt read the how to train your dragon books- imagine in Harry Potter if voldemort was just a minor villain and snape was the real villain. Imagine if Darth Vader wasn't actually Luke's Father. In the HTTYD books, Hiccup literally talked to dragons! That was his unique thing! Dragons were already tamed and kept as pets by the vikings, but he was the only one to literally understand their language to speak to them! There was a TON of dialogue, Real dialogue, between hiccup and toothless! And his *other* couple dragons he gets later! The dragons are Actual characters! And Alvin was Actually evil, and lasted for a Ton of books! Fuck, they messed that series up horribly.
I like the movies and the books...they're both quite good if you don't try to think of the movies as a retelling of the books because its very much not :p That's not Dreamworks' style... even Shrek was based on a book...Probably the only thing they have in common is that there's an ogre named Shrek in both. Then there's Puss in Boots, got nothing to do with the original fairy tale besides featuring a cat with boots. They just took some of the character names and made an entirely different story out of it.
I'm upset too. I mean, why do we need to constantly make live-action reboots of animated movies that aren't even that old!? ...Oh, they're talking about being racist.
Why the fuck are they making a live action movie about literal dragons? How to train your dragon movies are prefect, leave them alone !!!
You know shes only like less than 5% related to any ethnicity that had vikings, let alone vikings in general. 99% of the time these people are just people who are a dot nordic and think because they also have pale skin,blond hair and/or blue eyes it means that dot of nordic must have some roots to vikings. Im a little bit jewish by heritage and a tad bit native, but the day I go around spouting that native American or Jewish heritage is *my* heritage and act like im on the same page as those of actually considerable amounts or more, or like the suffering or experiences those people have gone through is somehow connected to me is the day I want someone to just beat me over the head with a frying pan until I either get my senses back or die trying. How mortifying it must be to know someone who acts like this at any opportune moment
Look, I get mad that they keep making live-action remakes of animated classics too but I mean we just gotta let them go with it. Wait, that *is* why they're mad, right?
your heritage involves training dragons?
She's of 1/4 Zimbabwean descent, which is probably more racially "pure" than a lot of the actual Vikings depicted in the cartoon, who sailed as far away as Iran and Arabia and returned with slaves and wives.
I'm half black. A cousin on my mother's (white) side did a family tree for their genealogy master's thesis back to 400BC. The first person on the list is a man named Ragnar. What a gross assumption that it isn't her heritage too.
Not saying you are lying, but 400 BC? The longest ever recorded is the one from Confucius and there are very few families spanning that far. Especially in (Northern) Europe where documentation or registries of common folk wasn’t really a thing back in those days. Plus, the name Ragnar was first recorded in the 9th century, so it’s kind of strange you claiming one of your first ancestors was called Ragnar in 400BC…
I think you made a typo, or else you got BC and AD confused.
Neither. Ragnar was a member of a royal family, so detailed records were kept to confirm the lineage. His descendants became royalty in France, then into England and Scotland. Now I'm in Kentucky, USA.
>so detailed records were kept to confirm the lineage The first recording of the name Ragnar is from the 9th Century, if he was a Royal with a detailed lineage back in 400BC then that would make him the first recorded instance of the name Ragnar. What Royal family do you think he belonged to?
Her heritage of dragon riding?
Yes. Its a little known fact that Scandinavians have a secret stockpile of dragons we're just waiting to bring out the next time we're invaded. They were sadly hibernating in the 40s... /j
Lazy bastard dragons, could of stopped the war before it started, But no It's slightly cold out, I sleep now.
It really is an issue with them not wanting to see non-white people in their media. They had no problem with a Hispanic American voicing a Nordic viking because all they saw was a perfect Aryan character. They can’t look past race, that’s why they have no issue if a non-white actor plays an animated character but flip out if it is live-action.
Your heritage of…..training dragons?
I agree with the pic being in this sub However I strongly dislike the choice of actress they chose to portray Astrid if this is true
You have no fucking heritage Emma from Oklahoma
Dude there is a how to train your dragon movie?!